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What does Generous mean when it comes to visitation arrangement?

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wantstorepair posted 9/20/2020 12:31 PM

Ask for all of your help please in defining generous in terms of what a visitation schedule should look like.

I said and am committed to a generous settlement in our divorce. It is my word and I intend to stick by it. Here is my conundrum/question:

When I hear generous I think $, not kids as they are not property. Generous in terms of parenting responsibility is shared so that the burden of responsibility isn't all on one parent in the arrangement. So the notion of a generous offer of "you have the kids 95% of the time" actually puts a lot of work on her. where as a split schedule where I am doing my share of running around to schools and drs and being with them for virtual school is in fact generous.

Am I wrong?

The visitation offer I submitted to her was the kids were with me Sunday night through Wednesday afternoon each week. they are in school Mon/Tues, and virtual Wed through Friday. So I would be doing all the school pick ups and drop offs, early starts, homework supervision, school visits, etc. and then working from home on Wednesday to supervise them for school.

Is that bad or wrong or not generous?

I have not been able to get a specific definition or desired detail about the schedule from BW, only that this current arrangement is not "Generous". When I asked her opinion about what would be better for her so I could change it, I was told it is lazy and wrong of me to ask her to do the work I said I would do, and that I should use my resources to figure it out. so here I am asking please for your help and guidance.

Thank you

LifeDestroyer posted 9/20/2020 12:40 PM

So you'll have then 3 nights and she will have them 4 nights. Are you also saying that in Thursday and Friday your BW will have to be home with them since they are doing distance learning those days? Does she work?

If she does work and you will be with them on Thursday and Friday, then I can see why she says it isn't "generous" since you would be basically getting the kids every single day. She may feel that that is unfair since she wouldn't have that much time with them.

HellFire posted 9/20/2020 12:50 PM

I find it telling that your offer means she will have them every Friday, and Saturday night.

Most people go on dates on Friday, or Saturday night. Especially if they work during the week.

Therefore, you've made sure to make dating anyone new very difficult for her.

wantstorepair posted 9/20/2020 12:51 PM

Life Destroyer,

Thanks for answering. She does not work, so yes she will be home with them full time Wednesday night from 5:30 through Sunday night when I come get them at 7:30 for the start of the school week.

I made the schedule with the idea that since she is at home, She will be with them a lot. On my days of Mon and Tuesday they are at school and I am at work, and wednesday my job will allow me to work from home to supervise their Wedneday morning virtual school.

wantstorepair posted 9/20/2020 12:52 PM

Hell Fire,

Thank you. I had not considered the dating aspect at all and should have I guess. I would ask her if that is something important to her to change, but this has to be my submission to her without feedback from her, so I will give that some thought.

LifeDestroyer posted 9/20/2020 13:11 PM

Hellfire has a good point! I didn't even think about "prime date nights." That too could be very well why she is not happy with your proposal.

What if you suggest an every other Saturday night plan? She has them Wednesday night through Saturday afternoon. Then every other week you would have them Saturday night through Wednesday afternoon.

wantstorepair posted 9/20/2020 13:18 PM

I like it LifeDestroyer and will incorprate that into v4 of the schedule proposal.

Any thoughts on the overall "generosity" part and if I am seeing this right/wrong? not that it is about right or wrong...trying to get to an agreement and the notion of "generosity" and its definition is what has us back at square zero.

LifeDestroyer posted 9/20/2020 13:29 PM

Well,what is their distance learning like? Will their tea her actually be doing Zoom videos and teaching? Or will your wife have to teach them? How old are they?

She could possibly be thinking that it is unfair that she will have to do teaching while all you have to do is helping with homework, if their distance learning days are like that.

Homeschooling is not easy for everyone. I can't do it, and I'm a teacher. It's a tremendous amount of stress on top of wifi issues and on top of what she is currently experiencing.

sisoon posted 9/20/2020 13:31 PM

'Generous' WRT kids means to me that you negotiate the solution together, and it will probably be 50-50.

My son and his XW use a 2-5-5-2 schedule, and it seems to work well.

'Generous' also means, IMO, being willing to work things out when the schedule doesn't work - because of, say, illness or vacation.

Cornucopia posted 9/20/2020 13:34 PM

To me, generosity in visitation would mean thinking of her needs as much as you think of yours before you decide on a way forward. To my mind, your 1st suggestion thought of your circumstances but didn't take in hers.
As a BW my first reaction to your original suggestion would be that you were setting it up so that I could never go away with friends for a weekend break, but you could do it every weekend. That would be ungenerous. Generous would have been to think through what both of your lives would be like.
Hope this makes sense?

JBWD posted 9/20/2020 13:39 PM

It seems, quite honestly, like you’re trying to lure her into a discussion regarding generosity.

It really doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of the plan in terms of adjectives- Excepting negligent, I suppose. You once again throw this barb at the end of “She refused to talk so this is my proposal.” I’m guessing she’s refusing to talk because she expects you to ambush her with questions about if she thinks this is generous.

We only get half the conversation here so unknown if there were different resources she was talking about- But she didn’t ask you to use those resources to find out if you’re generous or not, she asked you to fix the schedule.

wantstorepair posted 9/20/2020 13:52 PM

JBWD,

I am not trying to do that at all. I have said to her directly in writing that I will agree to whatever she wants 100% in terms of an agreement for visitation. She came back and said I was lazy and shifting the work to her. So I made a schedule and sent it to her based on zero feedback and what I thought was "generous" considering time, responsibility and our life details.

She came back and said my plan was not generous, and would give no details as to what she meant or wanted, and when I tried to ask her for clarification as to what she wanted, she said go to the board and get their definition of generosity.

Am i frustrated? yes and I apologize for being that way to all of you who are offering your time and advice. I am not trying to lure, manipulate, anything. I am willing to do literally whatever she wants. hence the reason I am here asking all of you for help; because she asked me to ask you.

nekonamida posted 9/20/2020 14:22 PM

WTR, why aren't your lawyers handling it?

You have been told repeatedly to stop bothering her. Stop talking to her. Even in your other post you admit to going to her all the time and asking her what she wants and needs. Thinking about it and focusing on it daily. STOP. LEAVE. HER. ALONE.

Her telling you want she wants has led to arguments FROM YOU. Her questioning you about some manual labor needs that had gone unment for 2 years led to an argument recently FROM YOU. And then we get a whole slew of posts about how she won't tell you anything, won't let you back in to do repairs that you have put off for YEARS, and you need our help to analyze the hell out of something she might want with a whole side of insinuation that you're being reasonable and she's been unreasonable for shutting you out. She's shutting you out to protect herself from further defensiveness and argumentative behavior FROM YOU and not once have you shared a communication win with her.

Submit your schedule to the lawyer and be done with it. Figure it out in mediation or court. That is EXACTLY what she has told you to do before which then lead to a whole bunch of complaining and further accusations that she won't tell you what she wants FROM YOU. STOP bothering her with your questions, concerns, and stop submitting schedules to her for you to argue over. Take it to court JUST LIKE SHE HAS ASKED OF YOU.

She's telling you what she wants. You just don't want to hear it and you don't want to comply.

wantstorepair posted 9/20/2020 14:29 PM

Hi neko. I am the asshole here. not her. However...she contact me about this morning. I was literally this morning sitting on the couch reading a self help book and leaving her alone (as she as asked me to do on Sundays, and she wrote me saying i was being a lazy coward and avoiding her and that my generous visitation plan she asked me to make was not generous.


I am not claiming to be the victim here... but this is insane!


I have a lawyer ready to draft up the agreements am desperately trying to get to what she wants in it...we could be divorced formally within months.

I dont have the money for court! she could go get a lawyer if she wanted but wont.

[This message edited by wantstorepair at 2:46 PM, September 20th (Sunday)]

Darkness Falls posted 9/20/2020 14:55 PM

You’re frustrated because this is how everything about the divorce so far has gone (based on what you’ve posted). In fact, as soon as I saw this topic title on the main forum page, I knew that you were the thread starter.

I do not understand why you are continuing to engage with your STBXW about this stuff rather than having your attorneys handle it. You KNOW that it’s a high-conflict divorce; this is what your attorneys are paid to deal with.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 2:56 PM, September 20th (Sunday)]

gmc94 posted 9/20/2020 15:24 PM

She came back and said my plan was not generous, and would give no details as to what she meant or wanted
This is what an attorney would call "bidding against yourself".

If she won't get an attorney, then have your attorney draft it and your attorney sends it to her and she can talk to your attorney about whatever she wants.

I think a 2.5/4.5/2.5 schedule is not a bad option, given your work schedule and covid.

So you have them Mon & Tues night
you split Wed (you have until say 3pm, she has rest of evening & overnight)
She has them Thurs & Fri night
and then alternate Sat & Sun

WEEK 1:
Dad: Mon/Tues
Mom: Wed/Thur/Fri/Sat/Sun

WEEK2
Dad: Mon/Tues
Mom: Wed/Thur/Fri
Dad: Sat/Sun

She gets one "extra" overnight (on Wed), but it's still pretty darn close to 50/50.


landclark posted 9/20/2020 18:36 PM

I’m just going to say that putting most of the homeschooling on her would probably annoy me as well. It’s not easy with one kid, much less multiple. So you get them when they’re at school all day, and then only one day when they’re not.

Also she gets them every weekend? So you have your weekends free, and she does not?

Hard to say what specifically she has an issue with, but I would definitely be annoyed by these two things.

Darkness Falls posted 9/20/2020 18:53 PM

I agree that you should definitely alternate weekends.

Catwoman posted 9/20/2020 19:18 PM

What does SHE think is fair and appropriate?

Cat

wantstorepair posted 9/20/2020 20:03 PM

so went back with everyone's input and offered a 60/40 split and she came back and said that wasn't good enough. so I just sent back an 80/20 split and Halloween, thanksgiving and Christmas eve and day hers with the kids...that is one weekend and three schooldays a month for me and that's it...and am being told that isn't good enough either.

I love my kids and want to spend time with them, and realize that this is all my fault and am in no position to complain or demand...but damn.

I am at a loss, and Cat, I asked her what she though was fair and appropriate and what her definition of generous is and she told me I was lazy and she wasn't going to do the work for me.

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