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Desertedindesert posted 8/8/2020 16:05 PM

I found out 6/2 that my wh was in an affair with a prostitute he met at a casino last fall. 19 year age difference. Completely different from me in every way. He’d been acting off for a few months, nothing I could put my finger on except not allowing me to look at his phone (we are in the middle of a lawsuit Relating to his old job; all emails go to his email). I’d stupidly been attending all of the court dates etc.

He shares a bd with our youngest son and on 5/31 I saw he had taken out $$$$$ in cash the day before (their bd). I asked why. Huge row about why—only answer I got was “marriage on my terms, I do what I want, when I want, no questions asked or I walk”. We’ve been together 34 years. Denied affair. Swore up and down no other person involved but that he wanted to “explore what was out there”. He’s 53.

My detective senses went into overdrive and I started looking when he went to work the next day. Found casino receipts, google searches for the AP’s divorce and custody records (married once, never followed thru on her divorce, had 2 kids with another partner). The searches were done last November. I didn’t even know he gambled. He’d gone to the casino at 4am when I thought he was out walking and then hitting up Walmart. He’s always been an early riser.

When I confronted him on 6/2 (which was the same night he was “working late” by taking her out for sushi and paying her $500, her “rate). Turns out he slept with her twice at our home ($1k) while our kids and I were out of town the end of April—right in the middle of covid uncertainty). He is a doctor and his salary has taken a huge hit. We were all instructed to not spend money. My sons and I had flown to move our older son out of his college dorm room. My wh has encouraged me to take our younger son too, for help... now I know why. Cheapest hotel we could find, of course. Never mind he’s spending $1000 on a hooker while we are gone.

He had her come to his office the same week for sex—snuck her in a backdoor. Again paid her $500. No protection. STD tests came back positive for trich.

He claims he didn’t really think she was a prostitute (despite offering to have sex with him in the casino bathroom for the same rate), that she’s young, gorgeous, intriguing etc. They exchanged over 700 texts in May. In June, when I found out, I txted her and said leave my family alone. My husband apologized to her.

Twice in June/July he texted her and got very nasty responses from her that she was done with him, not to contact her etc. She texted his burner phone—which he gave me after first mc session—on Father’s Day wishing him a happy Father’s Day with his kids and hoped all was well.

She has outstanding drug charges against her. He told the mc at our last session that he only finds women who look her attractive (different ethnicity than me, dark hair, tattoos and piercings). She also weighs about 90 pounds, and I’m 110, so according to him, I’m fat.

The mc says he has a SA and he’s convinced he has a romantic/love addiction. He says he realizes she didn’t care for him, although when he contacted her (against my and the mc advice) regarding a stolen watch and pair of earrings, valued at $7k, she denied and he said he believed her and if she ever needed anything, to contact him. WTH?

At this point, he says I’m like a prison warden and he’ll tow the line to keep our family together. Um, really? I don’t want to be constantly checking up on my partner. He resents me for breaking up his love connection. He’s written letters to our kids, justifying his actions, essentially a heart knows what it wants.

The mc is “optimistic” things will work out. Wonders what I did to make him want to stray. Maybe decades of porn and intimacy anorexia led to him straying on HIS own.

Sorry for vomiting up all of this. Thanks for any who read this far.

TheLostOne2020 posted 8/8/2020 16:39 PM

Desertedindesert

First, I'm sorry that he's abused you like this. What he's done is traumatic and awful and all his fault. He's a selfish and entitled asshole.

He claims he didn’t really think she was a prostitute (despite offering to have sex with him in the casino bathroom for the same rate), that she’s young, gorgeous, intriguing etc.

He's literally paying her for sex...What does he think a prostitute is? Jesus. Does he think she actually likes him?

My husband apologized to her.

Vomit. Never mind the family your husband has betrayed, the principles he's violated, the vows he's broken.

She has outstanding drug charges against her.

No surprise.

He told the mc at our last session that he only finds women who look her attractive (different ethnicity than me, dark hair, tattoos and piercings).

So has he been leading you on and lying to you for decades then?


She also weighs about 90 pounds, and I’m 110, so according to him, I’m fat.

... Please don't take a single thing that man says as serious or true. W.T.F.

The mc says he has a SA and he’s convinced he has a romantic/love addiction.

How the Hell can he have a romantic/love addition with a prostitute? He's paying her. That's not love. That's a transaction.

He says he realizes she didn’t care for him, although when he contacted her (against my and the mc advice) regarding a stolen watch and pair of earrings, valued at $7k, she denied and he said he believed her and if she ever needed anything, to contact him. WTH?

He's full on in the fog. He doesn't appreciate you at all.

At this point, he says I’m like a prison warden and he’ll tow the line to keep our family together.

This is blatant manipulation and bullshit. You are keeping the vows you swore to and expecting the same from him. You are also expecting for him to pull his head out of his ass.

Um, really? I don’t want to be constantly checking up on my partner. He resents me for breaking up his love connection. He’s written letters to our kids, justifying his actions, essentially a heart knows what it wants.

She's a prostitute. How does he not understand this? In any event, all of this is fairly stereotypical cheater behavior. I wouldn't even read the letters - they should go in the trash. Actually, scratch that - they might contain info your lawyer would be interested in.

The mc is “optimistic” things will work out. Wonders what I did to make him want to stray.

You did NOTHING to make him stray. Get rid of this MC immediately. What blameshifting bullshit. This is naked victim blaming and stupid.


Maybe decades of porn and intimacy anorexia led to him straying on HIS own.

Shitty principles, morals, and selfish behavior is what led him to cheat.

He did these things because he chose to. That's the bottom line. You cannot trust him, he's a liar and a cheater. My advice would be to contact a lawyer immediately.

Cooley2here posted 8/8/2020 17:15 PM

Couple of questions.

What are you getting out of this relationship?

Will he be “over” his addictions in 5 years?

Desertedindesert posted 8/8/2020 19:09 PM

I’ve contacted 3 attorneys. The one I liked the most gave advice to not jump into any decisions quickly. WH has threatened to cut off our children (take vehicles, turn off cell phones, all financial support). I have not worked in 20 years. He claims all money belongs to him. The attorney, of course, says otherwise. To hire the attorney, I need a $10k retainer.

I don’t know what I’m getting from this relationship. My self of worth is destroyed. I’m questioning my whole life at this point.

susielee posted 8/8/2020 19:16 PM

I am sorry you are in this situation, you have been abused by your WH and by your MC.

Fire the MC, and get a good IC.

ChamomileTea posted 8/8/2020 21:44 PM

The mc is “optimistic” things will work out. Wonders what I did to make him want to stray.

This is why we don't typically recommend that people start MC after DDay. Invariably it seems, we run into some quack who wants to pass the blame around. But there's only ONE person at fault in this situation, and it's the one who CHOSE to cheat.

Cheating is about character, or lack thereof. There's a gap between the cheater's stated values and his actual deeds. He tells the world he believes in fidelity when he takes his vows, but he doesn't. Not really. If he did he could never go through with the adultery, not without a gun to his head. There's a "but..." in his core value of fidelity. He believes in fidelity, "but... not if he needs some excitement". Underneath this obvious flaw is a more insidious character trait, and these traits have ugly names, like entitlement, narcissism, grandiosity, personality disorder, etc. Your WH clearly has an entitlement issue, and I don't think any of need a degree in psychology to notice it. Hell, he might be a card-carrying narcissist based on what you're describing.

I’ve contacted 3 attorneys. The one I liked the most gave advice to not jump into any decisions quickly. WH has threatened to cut off our children (take vehicles, turn off cell phones, all financial support). I have not worked in 20 years. He claims all money belongs to him. The attorney, of course, says otherwise.

And your attorney is right. It doesn't matter that you haven't worked in 20 years. Chances are pretty good that after three decades of marriage, the spousal support would be for life. Further, there might be protections to be had for your children which would see them through their college years. I am really concerned though about some of the things you've posted, how it's all "his money" and how it's "marriage on his terms". He really does sound narcissistic, and if so, you'll want an attorney who's got experience dealing with that. So, even if you like the one you interviewed, you might need to interview a few more. Divorcing a narc is a THING. Look it up online.

I'm sorry this happened to you, but just remember that you WILL be okay. We've all been there in some form or fashion and we're still standing. You will too.

((hugs))

Carissima posted 8/9/2020 15:13 PM

The mc is “optimistic” things will work out. Wonders what I did to make him want to stray

With all due respect the first thing you need to do is get rid of this MC. Personally I think it's too soon for any kind of couple's therapy but if you're going to do it make sure your therapist is an infidelity/trauma expert.

I would say your WH needs intensive IC, it may be something you want to think about too.

Go speak to some other lawyers. You may be able to come to some kind of payment arrangement with them. Speak to them about the possibility about the possibility of your WH paying all costs of the divorce.

Desertedindesert posted 8/9/2020 17:28 PM

Stupid question: why is mc a bad idea at this point? His mother, my two sisters-in-law are all pushing for it. I don’t see the big benefit from it myself but she has opened my eyes to the fact that my WH is crazy for his AP. I would not have realized that w/o the mc.

I thought initially it was like a one night stand—this was prior to the hundreds of emails & photographs the mc had him disclose to me. I could vomit that I seemed to rationalize it in my mind that there is a difference between a one night stand and an affair with a prostitute. He has not sent her a NC but I think if he contacts her again to do so, it will be full on A again.

WH did think he was in love with her, in fact he probably still is in love with her. To her, he was either a regular income source or possibly a way to a new life. He promised her travel, a car, a new phone, to pay for her young children’s daycare. She framed it as a sugar baby/sugar daddy situation. She texted him that she knew his wife neglected him and was ungrateful.

Anyway, mc probably is a waste of money at this point. The mc has recommended two IC for me (but strangely enough no IC recs for WH, just a suggested stay at The Meadows rehab for sa). I saw one IC and it was horrible. She didn’t want to know the details of my situation, instead kept asking what I was going to do. My world has just blown up and I’m expected to have a concrete plan at my first IC appointment? I left her office in a flood of tears and cancelled a follow up. She emailed back that she’d never had a patient “not continue therapy” and she wanted to know what she’d done wrong. Do I owe her an explanation? I think not.

Anna123 posted 8/9/2020 21:03 PM

Stupid question: why is mc a bad idea at this point?

Because this:

The mc is “optimistic” things will work out. Wonders what I did to make him want to stray.

No one MAKES someone stray. That is ridiculous.

Also because MC is for when a couple mutually is trying to work out marriage issues. Your husband's whore escapades is not a marriage issue. It is him seeing a whore, and then WORSE than this, threatening you AND your children with financial abandonment. Nope.

This marriage is a contract and your and husband are EQUAL in the partnership. You are entitled to half of everything. It is not between you and him. It is between the law and him.

Make sure you immediately, and SECRETLY copy all important documents. Stash your and your children passports, credit cards etc. Gather proof of income that isn't shown clearly in his taxes or with regular income. Maybe even hide smaller precious things without him noticing that he could mess with you over. He sounds like a control freak and nasty with his threats and you need to protect yourself. Maybe even stash some emergency cash discretely. Buy gift cards when shopping etc. This is all for "just in case" you need it to hold you over for a bit if he messes with you and hopefully it won't be an issue but worth saving yourself future turmoil if this goes down hill.

She emailed back that she’d never had a patient “not continue therapy” and she wanted to know what she’d done wrong. Do I owe her an explanation? I think not.

You poor thing! That was horrible. Of course you can't have a plan yet! Geeze! You could always tell her, maybe she will learn from it. You aren't obligated though. This is a crazy mess to work through. You will get some really good advice here and you sound like you have a decent idea of what is going on. The shock still hurts no matter how well you plan now but you will get through it.


Take care. I am so sorry this has happened to you.

HopefulJourney posted 8/9/2020 23:47 PM

So sorry you’re here. Hang in there and take good care of yourself. It sounds like you don’t have much to spare in the weight department. You need to stay well and strong for the roller coaster ride.

MC is no good at this point because your WH is not remorseful. Also, whatever disorder or issue he has are his to clean up. Not yours. I’d get into IC so you have support navigating what’s next.

You get to choose what’s best for you and your kids. Do not give that power to anyone else.

Tigersrule77 posted 8/10/2020 07:00 AM

She emailed back that she’d never had a patient “not continue therapy” and she wanted to know what she’d done wrong. Do I owe her an explanation? I think not.

Response - "You have no empathy and are terrible at your job. You clearly know nothing about how to help someone through the trauma and betrayal of an A, so seeing you will be of no help to me."

Sorry you've had a rough go of it so far.

If you are interested in D, you can see other attorneys. You may be able to find one who will accept a lower retainer, but your WH sounds like one who will make for an UGLY and COSTLY D.

Have you considered going back to work, if only to give yourself some time away from your WH? Sounds like you were the stay at home parent, do you have any degrees or a career you want to pursue? Your WH does NOT sound like a candidate for R. You need to start planning, just in case.

And I agree with the others that your MC is a trainwreck and your WH needs to heal himself before you can consider healing the M. Your WH's statements make clear that HE is not interested in fixing the M, so why go to MC?

siracha posted 8/10/2020 07:22 AM

I suspect that you already know this but you have been living without any real love anyway . Toxic Relationships are not essential they are just bad habits and everyone can live alot better off without them.
You have already been through the worst ; Just keep going with the lawyer and the IC ( a different one ofcourse ) more strength to you

tushnurse posted 8/10/2020 08:38 AM

Welcome Deserted.

You are in a highly abusive situation, and have been for some time, so that makes it very difficult for you to have any idea what to do, and how to pull away.

I would encourage you to start getting cash everysingle time you purchase something, get $20/40 back. You will need it.
Next you need to go back to that attorney you liked and let him know that your H is threatening you to take away your cash flow, and all that. Let him know that you are fearful to leave because of his abuse. Being fearful of him and his actions changes things and allows the attorney more latitude.

Additionally you need to understand the cycle of abuse, it will help you to understand what he is doing and predict his actions. He isn't interested in stopping this or putting forth energy into your M. The MC needs to be fired, but I wouldn't do that until you see the attorney again. You need to make your H think that you are not going anywhere so he doesn't increase his abuse of you, or stop the flow of $$.
I know you mentioned he got an STD, but didn't see that you were tested. If you have not had full STD testing you need to, and that means a pelvic and blood work. HPV cannot be tested on men, and can be asymptomatic until it becomes a problem. You need that test.

You are strong, smart, and capable. This will get better, but not until you make yourself a priority, the top priority.

sisoon posted 8/10/2020 13:17 PM

The reason MC is inappropriate now is that MC treats the M, and the M didn't fail. Your H destroyed your M - he needs IC.

A good MC can help early in recovery if the focus is on the A and on the changes the WS needs to make. Any MC who thinks the BS made the WS stray - in fact, any MC who thinks the A didn't stem from the WS's dysfunctions - is not competent to help a couple deal with infidelity.

You did not cause your H to stray. It looks like he's under pressure, and his cheating is his way of handling it. That's all on him.

He is not in an A. An A is 2-sided; both partners participate with some sick sort of attraction to persons. Your H hired a whore. She almost definitely saw him as a client, not as a partner. He can pretend to himself that it's love, but lying to himself add lying to himself to his crimes against your M.

You don't write anything that points to rebuilding an M that serves both of you. I know you need a retainer ordinarily, but in some cases, one spouse can be made responsible for both partners' legal fees. I recommend asking the lawyer you liked about that.

Also, I recommend looking into why you like that lawyer. As mentioned above, it's best to have an attorney who has lost of experience dealing with narcissistic people. Make sure you like this lawyer because you think s/he will act effectively in your best interests. As Bigger pointed out a few days ago, your assets don't belong to your H; they belong to both of you. If you D, you should get at least half of M assets.

I'm sorry you're hurting. It looks like you're waking up to your H's abusive behavior, and that's especially painful. Think about, say, a foot going to sleep. While it's 'asleep' you're comfortable, but when it's waking up, it's uncomfortable, for sure.

We take being betrayed as a blow against our self-esteem/self-image/self-love. In fact, however, betrayal says little about the betrayed and a lot about the betrayer. You - and I and every other BS - opened yourself up to being betrayed by loving and trusting your WS. That's being a good partner. I know it's difficult to rebuild one's self-love, but realizing you were a good partner, at least with love and trust, is a start.

ChamomileTea posted 8/10/2020 15:43 PM

The mc has recommended two IC for me (but strangely enough no IC recs for WH, just a suggested stay at The Meadows rehab for sa). I saw one IC and it was horrible. She didn’t want to know the details of my situation, instead kept asking what I was going to do. My world has just blown up and I’m expected to have a concrete plan at my first IC appointment? I left her office in a flood of tears and cancelled a follow up. She emailed back that she’d never had a patient “not continue therapy” and she wanted to know what she’d done wrong. Do I owe her an explanation?

Marriages don't cheat. People do... people with a defect in their character which is capable of saying "yes" to cheating and lying. Most of us do run right out to an MC before we've even made a "stay or go" decision. And when we get there, we find a counselor who's trying to "mediate" our differences. But... there's no compromise to be had with adultery. There's never a good enough excuse for it or mitigating factors which should be tolerated. It's a character problem which must be remediated, and if the cheater isn't willing to get it done, the marriage is toxic and should be ended.

It's good that your MC recommended to you that you see and IC. It's important to have a real person you can talk to. A good IC can encourage you to dig into your decision making process and help you find the strength to act on it. I do think that your MC's recommendation to send your WH to in-patient rehab is a good one. The treatment would be relatively intensive and he would be released with a referral to outside care. If you're considering R, continued therapy might be one of the boundaries you insist upon. What many BS's discover as we process the betrayal is that we weren't comfortable enforcing our boundaries regarding the kind of treatment we're willing to tolerate.

In terms of your therapist pushing you toward a decision, that might just be mishandling on her part. Like I said earlier, most of us run right to MC without really thinking about what we're trying to accomplish. It just seems like the next logical step when we're fresh from DDay. And because MC's are there to mediate with something we should never compromise on, it often ends up being a shit show. It's up to you whether you choose to give feedback. YOU don't have anything to be embarrassed about. You're normal.

((hugs))


ETA: You might read through a copy of Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. She did a pretty great job of describing boundaries with her "walls and windows" technique. This book isn't going to speak to your particular situation, but the aspects of R are pretty much the same and will give you some insight into what you're up against if you're leaning that way. If, OTOH, you're leaning toward D, I can't recommend enough that you find an attorney who's had experience dealing with narcissists. Not that I'm "diagnosing", but some of the things you've said are really concerning.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 3:56 PM, August 10th (Monday)]

Desertedindesert posted 8/10/2020 17:37 PM

Thank you for your kind words and support.

I have read Not Just Friends—it was helpful. I’ve also read After the Affair. The mc recommended we both read them. WH has only read a tiny bit of After the Affair.

The reasons I liked one particular attorney: track record for spousal support, results for spouses of medical professionals (many of whom are narcissists) and her tenacity in representing women who have stayed at home to raise the children. She advised getting my “ducks in a row” first. One being to have him put a substantial amount of assets in my name only, that he cannot access (for cash on hand if he completely decides to cut us off). WH agreed to those terms, but did drag his feet. He was stunned when I insisted. It’s done now. I’ve copied all financial records. Put all important documents and things of value in a safe, secure location.

I do have a college degree but never pursued grad school, which would be necessary for my field of study. I worked while he was in medical school/residency and then we had our children. My jobs were not high paying. Ffor over a year, I have attempted to re-enter the workforce. Two interviews and one minimum wage job offer pre-covid. I am enrolled in a college program scheduled to start next week. However, my tuition is not paid yet.

Right now, I’ve reached the point where I am just numb. Moments of rage and hurt still bubble up. Part of me does want to R but then I also think why? I can make my life on my own terms.

marriageredux959 posted 8/10/2020 19:04 PM

Gently, not to be insensitive nor am I trying to excuse behavior, but your husband's acting out seems, unhinged?

This seems off the deep end to me, even for a midlife crisis episode, emphasis on 'crisis.'

Has he ever acted out to this degree before? Perhaps not in this specific manner, but to this degree? Are destructive theatrics his thing?

I was in health care for decades (you are right about the narcissism) and I've watched highly educated, highly trained people do some stupid, stupid shit with their personal lives, but this seems out there to me.

A 53 year old physician who should know better, bare backing a prostitute, calling it love, and 'overlooking' a potential $7k theft? Casinos at 4am? Sneaking a prostitute into his office through the back door to have sex with her?

There's an untethered feeling about this. He almost sounds, manic...

Is there a history of mental illness in him or in his family? Is there any chance of substance abuse? Or some combination of the above? I'm not trying to be callous or disrespectful here, I'm being sincere.

Midlife crisis affair with that pretty young thing at the hospital who's been flattering him for over a year? Not smart on a number of levels.

Bare backing a prostitute and calling it 'love'?

That's a whole different flavor of crisis to my ear; not typical.

Is there any way you can discreetly get some input about this, an opinion from a trusted confidential source? Like, perhaps, your family physician?

[This message edited by marriageredux959 at 9:25 PM, August 10th (Monday)]

ChamomileTea posted 8/10/2020 19:19 PM

Good to know your attorney is experienced and that you're taking preliminary action. Well done!

I do think Marriageredux brings up some good points. If what's going on could be described as "altered personality", there could be a medical cause. You know him best, but if there's a big change, maybe he should see his doctor for a CT scan of the brain.

Desertedindesert posted 8/10/2020 20:26 PM

Marriageredux,
He had an MRI in November and again in March to look at a possible brain aneurysm. His closest sibling died from one about 18 months ago. There is a strong family history of alcohol abuse amongst his siblings and he did drink too much for several years but quit about 8 years ago because he did not want to set a bad example for our children (I don’t drink).

The first MRI showed a possible aneurysm. He freaked out, sent the scans to a sibling (her specialty). He comes from a family of physicians. His sister recommended a follow up MRA as did the rad who read his first scan. He’s been evasive about the second scan results, which could mean there is something there or he just feels because of the close call he is entitled to do whatever he wants.

Complicating the matter is his brother that died was transitioning to be a woman at the time of his sudden death. He’d been sketchy about his whereabouts and finances, discovered in a hotel room, dead. You can’t make this up it is so strange. No one in the family knew. The police released his belongings to us and it was all women’s clothing & wigs. His home was full of women’s clothes. This freaked out my wh and his siblings. They did not want my mother in law to know. The three other surviving siblings refused to plan a funeral. I got stuck with it for some odd reason.

So yes, some weird stuff has happened. An excuse for what wh has done? Not in my opinion. He’s risked his job, his career, his family, his reputation. It’s not something that just happened. He planned it. We live in a gated community—he had her park in a parking lot and picked her up so she wouldn’t register with the guard gate. He had her duck down in the car when they went in and out of the gate so the cameras wouldn’t see her. He knew it was wrong and he did it anyway.

[This message edited by Desertedindesert at 8:44 PM, August 10th (Monday)]

marriageredux959 posted 8/10/2020 20:56 PM

I hear you. I'm not offering it as an excuse, and whether it was intentional or unintentional, planned or unplanned, you have a right to boundaries.

You are not required to allow your spouse's dysfunction, no matter what the root cause, define and run your life.

My only reason for bringing it up is that your comprehension of what is happening to your own life could be furthered, and your path forward made more clear, by additional information. It occurred to me that additional information *might* (or might not) lie in this direction.

Doesn't mean that *you* have to live in this situation, though. (hugs)

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