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Buffer posted 6/22/2020 21:10 PM

Brother sounds like she has already left the marriage, so MC is a waist of money.
Start researching her lover. Internet, Facebook, Instagram etc if you seek you will find. WW will give you nothing about her A or OM. You have to find out for yourself.
Read No Mr nice guy. She is using this A as her exit.
People in A are like cockroaches they thrive in the dark. Shine a light on them and they run for the safety of darkness. Expose this to all. She will be mean, as she got caught rather than be a true person and talk about her misgivings about being married. How can there be trust?
One day at a time
Buffer

TheGuy123 posted 6/22/2020 21:26 PM

The other man has a burner phone. So you can either hire a PI or put a GPS tracker on her car and follow her with a friends car or have the friend follow her....you just might get a license plate number for the OM.

Even staking out her friends house might get you a lead.

JUST DOEN'T USE YOUR OWN CAR!!!!

Since you lost access to her phone... plant a VAR (voice activated recorder) in her car.

[This message edited by TheGuy123 at 9:29 PM, June 22nd (Monday)]

TheGuy123 posted 6/22/2020 21:47 PM

Right now you are in no position to make demands.

Your old lady is in the Affair fog and is having more fun being out of the marriage then in it.

Once she starts to think twice and second guess her choices then you have something to work with in regards to setting up boundaries. Boundaries she might actually respect.

Right now she has no respect for you ...what makes you think she will respect your wishes in getting a STD test or any other request you make.

The only thing she will respect is a confident man that will no longer share his wife and and a man with enough self respect to ask his cheating wife to find some were else to live.

Maybe after a few days of couch surfing she might want to come back and respect your boundaries.

Maybe when her own kids can't respect her she just might work on regaining that respect by respecting their fathers boundaries.

And the biggest one here is... when the OM dumps her to save his own marriage she just might come back and respect your boundaries to save her own marriage!

You really need to find this guy and expose him. It's a game changer.

TheGuy123 posted 6/22/2020 22:05 PM

You have the OM's burner phone number so call him (steal your wife's phone) and threaten him.....if he calls the cops then bingo you found him.

More then likely the guy won't want to take the risk on getting exposed (especially if he is married) and bail on the whole seen.

Again...making the affair as inconvenient and as uncomfortable as possible to continue.

ChamomileTea posted 6/23/2020 01:30 AM

We got in an argument over her gaining my trust back and she just said she wont give me access to her phone or live like that. I got so angry I stormed off, printed the texts, stapled them and went up to the bathroom where she was getting ready for work and handed them to her. she looked super quick and put down the 7 pages of texts. I kinda yelled, "Read it!" She picked it back up and read some and had nothing to say. After she got off work she went out on some "normal" errand and i get a text on my phone that says I was removed from the cell account. So, she saw I busted her and completely cut me off, so i could not even see the log of the calls/texts (not the actual texts). I just want to look at those logs to see if there is an exchange between them.

This is the point at which you retain an attorney and file for divorce. She's telling you everything you need to know about the state of her remorse and her intentions.

We don't meet our unrepentant cheaters halfway. They either completely capitulate, or they're no good for reconciliation.

Also, find out who that guy is and inform his wife. Typically, the OM will throw his AP under the bus in a mad scramble to save his own home deal. That serves you in two ways; it wakes the WS up out of her fantasy so she's taking you seriously and it clears your conscience of your unwilling culpability in the OM's cheating.

Buffer posted 6/23/2020 05:10 AM

Again Chamomile Tea has hit the nail on the head!
Buffer

Lalagirl posted 6/23/2020 06:16 AM

Welcome, BSHusbandWI.

You have received a lot of great advice from people who have BTDT. I know it's a lot to take in all at once. You don't have to rush these life altering decisions but there is one thing that you should do post-haste.

Consult with an attorney - several attorneys - you may be surprised where you stand. Given that you are currently unemployed, you may stand to have the upper hand financially - in other words, she may have to provide spousal support to you. Knowledge is power and knowing your rights will give you more power than you currently have.

As far as the MC goes, I would go alone and as another poster suggested, ask for guidance to start the D process; perhaps this person could serve as your IC (individual counselor), which could be very beneficial to you as you go through this shitshow.

Having your WW served will give her a dose of reality. The thing about filing for D is it can be stopped at any time - if by some miracle your WW extracts her head from her ass. If you continue down the path that you're on currently, nothing will change - the A will continue and you will be miserable.

As far as your kids are concerned, they are smarter than you think. They probably know something is going on and they are confused because they can't quite put their finger on it. There are a few SI members who are "betrayed children" - children who had a parent who cheated - they will implore you to be honest with them. You don't have to get into nitty gritty details, but IMO, they need to know why their mom is rarely home and why their dad isn't himself.

Take things one day at a time. Keep posting here. Take what you need here and leave the rest, but please understand that while some of the advice may seem blunt, it comes from a place of caring because we have been down this road in one way or another.

Sending strength,

Lala

BlackRaven posted 6/23/2020 07:06 AM

I am so sorry for your pain. I too have recently experienced a D-day with an older teen at home, so I don't have a wealth of experience, but I do know some things.

-your WW may go to a MC, or even an IC, but that doesn't mean she will tell the truth. My WW and I saw many marriage counselors over the years, and he saw IC, and it turned out that he lied to them all. He'd had affairs and never divulged them. In fact were/he were in counseling when he began and carried on the most recent one - the one I discovered. We then continued to see our counselors, and he still didn't divulge the previous affairs, not for 3 months.

-I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping your MC appointment today if it's scheduled and you can afford it. They can mediate and help you to talk to one another, instead of yell. And even if your WW doesn't show, you are in crisis and the MC is a trained professional you can speak with today, who can refer you to someone for IC. The MC can also offer advice on how to talk to your kids about this.

-IC is a priority. You are in pain and need support. You have unhealthy patterns. They might be able to recommend a counselor for your kids to see as they go through this.

-Call a lawyer. Most initial consults are free. Get an idea of what spousal support would look like. How long it takes to process (my state has a mandated 3 month cooling off period) etc.

-If your bank accounts are in both your names, put an alert on the account so that you get notified if it drops below a certain level. Your WW is unstable right now and thinking only of herself . Keep an eye on your finances. You can always cancel the joint CC and insist you take out separate ones to track individual spending.

-I had been through hell in the past with my WH, in terms of his addiction and other issues (I didn't know about the affairs till this year). He did a 3 month inpatient treatment. He did a boundary course. But nothing resonated with him until I told him to move out, and it still took several weeks for him to realize he'd lost what's most important. He's finally doing some honest work. I don't know if we will R, but that's up to me at this point.

Jessy123 posted 6/23/2020 07:16 AM

Hi there,

It's truly awful what you are going through and you are in shock.

The early weeks are just complete chaos and your feelings and her feelings will be all over the place.

She is unlikely to be able to tell you what you want or need to hear right now as she is also in shock at a. whats she's done and b. that she has been caught. She is ashamed, confused, angry and essentially having a breakdown.

By all means get tested and see a lawyer. However I would wait a couple of months to see the lawyer. Your head will be clearer. The questions you want to ask will be clearer. You are less likely to waste your money.

Hang on in there. You just need to take each day as it comes right now. Look after yourself, ask the questions you need to ask. Reading lots of books on affairs / recovery has helped me.

This is all her fault. No doubt. But sadly you have to deal with the tsunami. Whatever the outcome its a long road with no short cuts. You could work through it and come out with a happy marriage. You could separate and go on to meet someone wonderful.

Lots of love

Jess

Anna123 posted 6/23/2020 07:51 AM

Lots of great advice. Remember, you don't have to rush.

Just a point I would like to add - after all the time of no sex, you didn't cheat, but she did. So anyone who says the 'marriage' was at fault for her cheating is not being logical. And now, you are begging to save the marriage, and once again, you want to try, and she does not. This is NOT a mutual marriage communication issue here. Sure, maybe you 'not listening' as she accuses you of is a marriage issue for example, but don't let guilt over that lead to thinking her cheating is an equal response. This is a separate issue you are free to work on on your own if you wish but no connection to her lying and cheating for months on end. If you are so horrible, why didn't she give you an ultimatum? Why didn't she beg for marriage counseling? Why didn't she simply ask for a divorce? Why does someone who takes their family seriously spend days/hours screwing in a hotel instead of being at home with their teens who soon will be adults and this precious home time will only be a memory? This is not a very good person here, just my two cents.

Make sure you get a stash of cash set aside somehow by the way. Protect/copy important papers/items also. Remember like Lala girl said, divorces can be stopped at any time so don't let starting the research process scare you.

Drink lots of water, eat, and take care of yourself.

knowingmystance posted 6/23/2020 07:54 AM

I have a friend who is a pastor in a small rural community (where you'd assume things like this don't happen). I confided in him when I had my own little misfortune. It happens to a lot of people. In his experience, it takes WSs around two years to come around. These two years are an uphill battle. Relapses happen and your wife will need to fall back in love with you. Her pretending to be on your side (which is now the best you can hope for) is not the solution and rather a recipe for another disaster.

I personally only believe in two people getting back together after each seeing other people (maybe after years of separation) and making the autonomous decision to do R. Happened to friends of mine and they are quite happy now.

fooled13years posted 6/23/2020 08:03 AM

BSHusbandWI,
I am so sorry you are here. With everything that is going on in the world and then to have unemployment and your WW's infidelity on top of it rock your world really sucks.

So here I am today, she has agreed to see the therapist, but has said that she knows how it's going to go... she's the bad person that did the terrible thing

After destroying your marriage she is now concerned how she will be viewed as being responsible for destroying your marriage?
the reason i've been trying to talk to her and get her to talk is because I feel like I need answers to figure this out

Talk with her all you want but until she does fully accept responsibility for what she has done you will not get anything from her that will help you make sense of any of this.

I believe you are simply going to receive excuses and blame she will place on you.

I'm so confused. And my kids are 16 and 18. I don't know the words to tell them. It will mess them up

She has been spending all this time away from the family so it is apparent that she has no concern for her children.

You should let the kids know what is going on so that they won't have to ask you any more

where is mom

squid posted 6/23/2020 08:09 AM

BSHusbandWI,

You've received plenty of great advice thus far.

I think one of the most valuable bits of advice when you are in this phase of having just found out and dealing with a WW that is actively engaged in an affair and is completely without remorse is that you must focus on what can control.

Forget trying to gently persuade her to counselling. Forget asking her for information. Forget trying to guide her back to the marriage.

This is you doing the Pick Me Dance. This NEVER works.

What waywards need in the stage are harsh consequences. So, TODAY YOU MUST DO AT LEAST THIS:

-Kick her out of the house
-File for divorce
-Expose her to all family and friends

And I mean NOW.

Issues with any of the above requirements?

-Where will she go? Not your problem. She's an adult. Let her shack up with boy-toy.

-Attorneys cost money? True, but you could probably download all of the pertinent documents and fill them out yourself and file. It only takes one of you to start the proceedings.

-Why expose? Affairs thrive in secrecy. Once its out for all to see, they usually disintegrate.

From now on, NO MORE SHOW OF EMOTION FROM YOU. No begging, no pleading. No asking of favors. No more talk about fixing the marriage.

Only talk about the divorce, kids, or logistics.

You must treat her like a stranger that does not have you or your kids' best interests at heart. Because that is who she is at the moment.

MC is frowned upon because it almost always turns into a forum where the WS airs out all of their grievances that caused them to cheat. Which is total fucking bullshit.

This is what is very important:

You must send her the message that you will not accept sharing her with anyone. You have decided that this version of marriage is unacceptable to you and that you are taking steps to end the marriage. Whether or not she decides to join you is up to her. But that is not your concern. Your only concern is to get yourself out of infidelity. Period.

That's it. Then act on it. NOW.

I'll tell you, if the above does not give her the slightest pause, then you really don't have anything to save.

If, however, she does turn a bit, then you might have a shot at R. But that's with no guarantees and still very far down the road.

Everyone else's advice of NC and full transparency is applicable only if your WW is even remotely interested in saving the marriage. If she doesn't want to participate then fuck it. Let her go.

I know that sounds counter-intuitive. But it's advice I wish I followed when I was where you are at now.

Good luck.

[This message edited by squid at 8:10 AM, June 23rd, 2020 (Tuesday)]

Mene posted 6/23/2020 08:11 AM

OK, the good folk here have given you some very good advice.

Your priority is to find out who the AP is. His name. You have a phone number from the texts. If you can’t get his details so you can inform his wife, make it a condition from your wife that the marriage is over if she doesn’t give you those details in 24 hours. And follow through. She’s not R material if she resists. She’s protecting her lover. She’s putting him above you, the father to her children and her husband. Do not settle for this.

The reason why you need to inform the OBS is the AP will have to handle the fallout from his marriage and will definitely throw your wife under the bus to save his “marriage”. Plus, there are an extra pair of eyes making sure the lurve birds are kept apart.

YOUR PRIORITY NOW IS TO GET THE DETAILS OF THE AP AND INFORM HIS WIFE. Do not tell your wife you will inform the other betrayed spouse.

DoinBettr posted 6/23/2020 08:20 AM

If you want more information on the guy then you could catfish him. He is on Tinder so he probably has given out his number before. This is probably not his first rodeo being a married guy on Tinder.
Ask one of your female friends to mention swapping numbers with him and don't remember doing it via text. Have her mention he messaged her on Tinder earlier. Plan it out better, but you understand the premise.
See if he bites. It might give you his information which would help you learn more information and get him out of your wife's life.
By the way - your wife has scoffed and criticized your demands up until now. What makes you think she will hear you out? Even in MC, the MC isn't a referee.

faithfulman posted 6/23/2020 08:26 AM

You did really well to hold your fire until you had real evidence.

You have the sleazebag affair partner's phone number.

Armed with only his phone number, you should get a trial subscription to beenverifieddotcom and you will know all his information, his work information, how to contact his wife and a lot more.

You can find a trial promo that gives you a few days for couple of bucks.

***

Get a voice activated recorder and make sure you record discussions with your wife, she could turn on you at any moment.

Last thing you want is a false domestic violence charge.

Bigger posted 6/23/2020 08:33 AM

BSHusbandWI

You have gotten a lot of advice – some good and some maybe not so good…

There are relatively few constants in infidelity, but there are patterns and behaviors that we here on SI have seen again and again. Despite each case being unique then people tend to react the same way to comparable situations. Like right now your wife is reacting just the way probably 19/20 WW react: She’s trying to minimize the affair, hiding facts, protecting herself and the OM.

Based on what you share OM is married: Burner phone and hotel hookups (if single then he would use his home). Keeping the key is odd: You get a key at check-in and keeping it after use is strange unless the room is kept for several days. This in turn costs, indicating a wealthy OM.
You can bet your last dollar that she has told him you know and in 9/10 cases the married OM reacts the same way: Let’s cool things down until the coast is clear. He’s hiding evidence, being attentive to his wife and maybe even concocting some story about a crazy guy accusing him of “stuff”. But for NOW, the affair is over.

Also based on what you share he sounds quite confident or experienced. It’s not the back-seat of a car or sneaking a quickie in the office-supplies room. It’s “pro”-like, with hotels, accessories, the burner phone…

Your WW reactions to cooling it down are also in line with 9/10 WW: She has every intention of the affair being over. Just like the last time you had a big hangover you were determined not to drink again… But just like you probably had a beer a week later then chances are at least 5/10 that once she thinks it’s safe she will reach out to him.
The odds are 8/10 that if HE reaches out after a couple of months she will restart the affair. The odds are 8/10 that he WILL reach out to her again. The moment he thinks he’s safe he will reach out again.
If you have any way of monitoring their communications, then once she told him you know he would probably have responded with an open ending. It’s not “we need to quit, and I will never contact you again” but rather something along “It’s best we don’t see each other for now”. Not final, but more like a time-out.

Those are terrible odds altogether… Not odds I would want to base my future on.

Fortunately, there are things you can do that increase your odds. They are also more-or-less in line irrespective of if you want to reconcile or divorce.
Keep in mind that either option is fine, considering where you are now. Divorce might sound frightening but it’s the only option YOU have some control over. Reconciliation is great too but requires BOTH are totally on-board. TOTALLY. Right now, your wife isn’t, or at least it’s not clear she’s there for the right reasons.

There are also some things we know from collective experience that also apply to reconciliation.
The KEY issues are two:
(a) The affair needs to be over.
(b) You need the truth.
The first couple of months in R are usually spent either getting those two requirements fulfilled OR getting you to the point you feel safe on both issues.
You are missing a KEY ISSUE here. One that more-or-less ensures you don’t have (a) the affair needs to be over. Namely the NAME of the OM.
You don’t know what you are dealing with. Without knowing who he is you are missing the key tool to ending the affair and a major issue for YOUR assurance.
Look – even if your WW is that one in ten WS that really ends an affair after d-day and even if she NEVER again talks to or meets OM then for the rest of your life/marriage you will be wondering. Who is he? Who is the OM? Is it George across the street? Is it Jeff – the man your WW said hi to at the Mall? Is it the guy looking at her across the restaurant? YOU will never feel safe. YOU will be incapable of reconciliation irrespective of her commitment.

You don’t need to talk to him or even meet him. But you do need to know who he is, how they met, how they communicated… Then – without telling your wife – you need to let his wife know. It’s not revenge (although it has that positive side-benefit…) but rather something that increases your odds immensely.

Our collective experience shows that once the OMW knows the OM commits to his marriage.
Experience tells us that being shunned or getting a firmer “it’s over” from the OM tends to get the WW out of the fog quicker.
The odds of the affair restarting drop considerably. You know better what you are dealing with. Your position to decide whether to reconcile or divorce becomes better.

Most of us on SI agree (mostly through personal experience AND shared) that the key moment for us betrayed spouses is when we realize we can’t control the WS, but we can control US and what we accept and want.
We also realize that what we want is dependent on what others offer. You can want to reconcile as much as you can, but if she doesn’t want it and if you two don’t commit to it (like with her telling you all) then it can’t be attained.
If you can only control yourself and if R is dependent on her actions… well… maybe your best bet is to start the divorce process. But keep in mind it’s a PROCESS. It takes time and consists of many steps and milestones before the Big D is attained. For a good part of that journey the path of Reconciliation runs parallel. It’s easy to switch paths if things change.

I challenge you to think this through: Your marriage as it was is over. Dead. Whatever happens now is a new marriage or a new life apart. Both are OK. The only really BAD option IMHO is to remain in infidelity.
What would be immensely worse than divorce or spending time trying to fix things is for her to remain in infidelity mentality (protecting OM, secrets, limited commitment…) or for you to discover yet another Hilton key. THAT would be the worst.
If you agree with that then consider telling her something along these lines:

“Wife. I envisioned us being married forever. This affair was an immense shock, but I think our past deserves that we try to reconcile. However, I have made an immense, liberating realization: As much as I fear losing this marriage then I fear even more SHARING you.
I don’t share my wife, nor do I intend to. I don’t intent to keep you in this marriage against your will. If you don’t think a monogamous marriage built on honesty and mutual respect is attainable for us or if you think our marriage demands too much sacrifice, then that’s OK.
You are totally free to spend time with OM, meet OM, go to his seedy hotel-room, talk about him with your friends… whatever… BUT NOT AS MY WIFE.

Until and unless you tell me in a very clear and unequivocal way that you want me as your husband I’m simply assuming you have still chosen your affair over our marriage. I release you from your obligations and expectations as my wife, just like I resign my role as your husband.

That’s OK. I’m fine with that. It’s not what I want, but definitely better than remaining in infidelity.

I will initiate and work towards the emotional, logistical and legal process of terminating our marriage. The legal system will ensure we both get a fair deal. I will place the legal aspects in the hands of my attorney because I am too emotionally attached to this marriage.

If you want this marriage and tell me so in a clear unequivocal manner, then there are some requirements I need. I need total commitment, accountability and transparency and I need the name of the OM. Without this then I know we can’t reconcile and I’m OK with that. It beats sharing you.”


And then you go and do something else. Watch a rerun of Friends, mow the lawn… whatever.
If she wants to talk the ONLY things you might discuss is how to tell the kids, how to live together the next weeks, mediate or separate attorneys… Other than that, it’s the 180.
If she says she had the affair because you were emotionally distant: “I’m sorry you feel that way. We would need to address this if we were working on reconciliation, but since you have decided to choose your infidelity over our marriage there isn’t any need to go there”.
This is your standard go-to answer to ANY marital issue.
It’s only if she tells you she wants the marriage AND shares the required info that things change.

If you work at detaching, accepting that without 100% commitment the affair is still ongoing and do the 180 you do two things:
You create pressure on HER to commit to you or the affair. Both are OK. If she commits to the affair you get your inevitable truth. If she commits to you it’s then done from a more truthful base.
You create the environment where YOU become OK and even accept divorce IF she doesn’t change her stance.

[This message edited by Bigger at 8:38 AM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

BentandBroken posted 6/23/2020 09:27 AM

I am so very sorry you are going through this. You now have lots of advice to sift through, and you'll develop an action plan for moving forward.

Might I also add....please recognize you are going through trauma. Your brain and body are likely responding accordingly. As part of your action plan, you will want to find ways to cope and keep yourself healthy.

Taking control is the best thing you can do for building your confidence. You have dozens of suggestions (above) for how to do that. You will also need to eat, sleep, exercise, take care of your children and avoid alcohol. None of this will be easy for a long time. If possible, set up IC sessions with the infidelity specialist you found. Be kind to yourself. Keep posting.

KingofNothing posted 6/23/2020 09:30 AM

Damn, that's a hard read. She's totally unrepentant. She feels somehow justified in her actions, and blames you somehow, I'm guessing. Well, you're getting a ton of good advice here. I can't add anything on top of the heap that wouldn't sound repetitive-- just because you read "Get checked for STDs" "Inform the other betrayed spouse" "Lawyer Up" and "Pursue a 180 strategy" many times, does not mean this isn't all very helpful and specifically applicable to your situation, namely, a hostile, unrepentant spouse that doesn't appear to be sorry, doesn't want to put in any work and doesn't want to admit their responsibility for the decisions that led them into adultery.

You're going to see it said again and again. You have to protect you, now. For your own sanity, for your own well being. That's true as well. I'm happy you found this resource, and any time you want to rant, or ask questions, we're here. So sorry this had to happen to you.

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 9:30 AM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

Stinger posted 6/23/2020 09:48 AM

Really, why would anyone want to be married to your wife? This woman is a monster.
Sorry she did this and for your pain.

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