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Betrayed Womenz Thread - Part 3

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SI Staff posted 11/15/2019 17:21 PM

A place for the betrayed women to discuss issues specific to betrayed wives. We ask that women only post on this thread.

EllieKMAS posted 11/15/2019 17:29 PM

Seasonal Dictionary item up for vote:
KTHITD - Kick the Holiday's in the Dick

All in favor...

I am giving that one a big FUCK YES!

gmc94 posted 11/15/2019 19:09 PM

When my kids were younger, I LOVED Christmas. We made cookies for santa (and would write the thank you with our left hand so the little buggers wouldn't recognize it was us), always had a ton of people over (our home is small, and one year we had to do it in two separate shifts). WH is a really good cook, and he'd make all sorts of wonderful things. We had a big spread for brunch and then a big dinner after all the presents were opened. I loved it.

As they got older, it morphed a bit, but I still enjoyed it. About 10 yrs ago the family decided to make gifts, so there was always the combination of a sense of accomplishment AND terror about what we were making (I used to do homemade chocolate truffles with booze in them - very time consuming but each one felt like it was done with love). The anxious racing to finish and get packages in the mail on time, etc. But I still loved it. We always got a tree. Some years decorated long in advance, other years the family did it together on Xmas eve (after my son got to town). Since 2015, we've always picked up DS from the airport and headed straight to the movie theater to see that year's new Star Wars film.

But since dday? Meh. And this year - like last year - I have a powerful sense that it will be the last Christmas as a family. I'm curious if those who are "in R" or "Rd" have that sense too? I felt it last year, but this year it's far more powerful.

In fact, I'm looking at flights and may bail on WH and DD for Thanksgiving... the idea of some charade of a family just makes me want to puke. WH will cook and keep his head firmly implanted in his arse, cuz he is a master at avoiding anything that does not jive with his self delusion that everything is just peachy. DD will drink herself into a stupor, probably do some coke on the side, and then get dramatic about who the fuck knows. So I'm asking myself, why not just go do something that I want to do on my own? Thinking a trip to Denver and a day on the slopes sounds good. And then I struggle with the idea that I'm bailing on what could be the last Thanksgiving as a married woman. I dunno why the fuck I care one wit about that - I didn't cheat and blow up the family. I didn't commit suicide to add more shit to the sandwich. I'm not an addict playing Russian Roulette with my life. So why not? I could also hit the Denver Aveda school (I go there for a yummy facial every time I'm in Denver.... ahhhhhh, I can feel the warm exfoliating stuff just thinking about it). it would be the first time in my entire life that I did not spend Thanksgiving with family. Maybe a new, solo, "making memories adventure" in honor of OhForANewMe?

EllieKMAS posted 11/15/2019 22:26 PM

gmc if you do decide on Denver let me know. We could meet up for lunch!!

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/16/2019 20:44 PM

GMC, I say, go for it! This is your time for you. Make it what you want. Let go of any feelings of obligation or guilt. It sounds like Thanksgiving with the family might not be healthy for you, anyway. You don't need added distress. It's time for peace and calm, not chaos.

NorthernMSB posted 11/16/2019 22:06 PM

My Dday was Christmas Eve 2018. 9:08 pm. When I stumbled real-time sexting between my husband and an ex. Honestly, I had just gone upstairs for a minute to show my son a Christmas greeting on my WH Facebook page. WTF?

I loved Christmas. It was my thing. The decorating and everything. I am sobbing right now remembering the moment. How in the hell am I going to get through Christmas this year with a husband who is unrepentant and kids who are so angry especially my oldest who was witness to the texts and her naked boob shot? It is utter wreckage.

I hope you can find a solution to make the holidays survivable. There is no solution for me.

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/17/2019 07:46 AM

((NMSB)) Take your kids and go somewhere without your CH, maybe tropical?

20yrsagoBS posted 11/17/2019 09:41 AM

Northern MSB

Walt Disney World is gorgeous at Christmas

likeapinball posted 11/17/2019 09:52 AM

I used to LOVE Christmas too, especially when the kids were little. We used to get a friend or a neighbour to write the Santa note and the gift tags on the Santa gift. The first couple of Christmases post DDay were meh. Really hard to come up with a gift for H without the kids going WTH??? I'm feeling a little better this year, not sure why, maybe I'm just sitting with things a little better (today anyhow)!

gmc - I'd totally go for it! Sometimes you need to do what YOU want to do! That Aveda facial sounds awesome, maybe I'll put that on my list.

And yes, add KTHITD to the dictionary!

GFD all!

Chaos posted 11/17/2019 13:29 PM

GMC - KTHIDT and go to Denver and get that facial!

You take care of YOU. Let's face it - WH and DD haven't taken care of themselves and have given you the metaphorical finger with their behaviors.

Think of it this way. In an emergency you have to put on your own life vest before assisting others. WH and DD have their own life vests but choose not to put them on. Think of this trip as your life vest. In a way it is - for your sanity.

If you are worried about them that just means you have a heart. They have the tools they need and are responsible for the choices they make.

Loving them doesn't mean you have to spend your live saving them from themselves.

HeHadADoubleLife posted 11/17/2019 13:53 PM

Ohhhh Christmas... something I used to absolutely love. DD20 was just venting to me yesterday about our situation, about how she still cries at least a few times a week about it, and she brought up wanting to come to my family's house for the holidays this year. I told her she is welcome anytime of course, but I also don't want her to feel obligated to spend the holidays away from her bio family (she is my stepD).

She then told me a story that just about broke my heart. Apparently last year, on Christmas Eve, their father announced to them that they were going to dinner. Well, about 30 minutes later, XH walks into the girls room to say goodbye, that he and C U Next Tuesday were going to dinner. DD20 (19 at the time) was shocked, and apparently let him have it. Said are you seriously going to dinner with her and not going to bring your daughters with you, on Christmas Eve? She then went to the bathroom and was bawling crying. He apparently knocked on the door, said he was sorry and gave her a big hug. But then, HE TOOK HIS MISTRESS TO DINNER WITHOUT THEM ANYWAY!

She told me that she and her sister just cried to each other about how much they missed our family, and how the Christmas before had been the best Christmas ever, why did it have to be this way? I told her that I wish she had called me, I would have gladly talked to them, as on Christmas Eve last year I had literally cried myself to sleep wishing I could have been with them.

I know it's predictable... why would this selfish asshole act any differently? I just cannot believe that I was denied access to them over the holidays, when HE DIDN'T EVEN WANT THEM! He had already skipped their family Thanksgiving at his mother's house so that he could visit the C*ntress in the mental hospital. What in the actual fuck??

She then told me she has mornings pretty frequently, after a deep sleep, where she wakes up and has those 30 seconds where she feels like she should be in our old house, waking up to her dad, her sister and I, and when the fog of sleep wears off and she realizes that isn't her reality anymore, she just cries. I told her me too, girl, me too. We held hands the entire way I was driving her home. She said it felt really good to get everything off her chest, because the rest of her family, and her boyfriend, just don't get it. I told her she can call me anytime, and she has a key, she can just let herself in to my place, even if I'm not there and she just needs to get away and cuddle with the kitties. Fuck I can't even find it in me to hate him for what he did to me, but when I hear the things he did to them, I want to make him hurt in ways I've never wished pain on anyone.

This shit makes me wish my grandpa was still alive. He was a man of few words, and even fewer emotions, but when my college boyfriend cheated on me, then broke up with me, he wrote me an email that just simply said, "Do I need to come up there with my shotgun? Let me know. Love, Grandpa." I know if he were alive when DDay happened, XH would have been in for a world of hurt.

So of course, I completely understand why DD wants to bail on the holidays with her bio fam... it's just a reminder of her father's abandonment. My family comes with its fair share of dysfunction, but one thing I can say, we show up when it matters. All 3 of my brothers, both of my parents, and my one living grandma came to DD20's graduation party. Took off work, switched schedules, put the dogs in doggy day care, whatever they needed to do, they made it happen. X's side of the family, only my MIL came. Shocker she's the one I get along with and still talk to.

On a happier note, I was holiday shopping yesterday and saw this! I used to hate unicorns, and sparkles and all that, but now it just reminds me of you lovely ladies!

Chaos, do you already have a unicorn cookie jar, or do I need to pick one up for you?

Re: getting over the holiday triggers, it's very hard, but I'm trying this year. Last year I was a sobbing mess of snot on the floor. No decorations, no gifts, nothing. This year, I'm thinking I want to make some new traditions, and maybe that will help. I am waiting on a paycheck, but when I was out browsing last night I found these gorgeous wooden boxes with metal-worked bows "wrapped" around them to look like gifts. I'm thinking I want to buy those instead of stockings. And my plan is to have one for each of the girls, and I will write a letter to them and put it in there, along with a few more traditional stocking stuffer type things like candy etc. I'm going to get one for me as well, and maybe I'll write myself a letter too.

I saw some really cute little trees, and tons of cute ornaments, but I don't know if I can handle decorating a tree on my own. Though I might still get one if DD20 wants to decorate. I know decorating for the holidays is one of their favorite things, and since she's living with her BF in his parent's house, I don't know how much of that will happen. DD17 turns 18 in 13 days! Hoping she will have the courage to tell XH to fuck off, and maybe, just maybe, we'll get to see each other for the holidays this year. In an ideal world the three of us could deocrate together, but I won't get my hopes up, as he is a very hard person to push back against, and she is in an incredibly tough position. But I will cross my fingers!

HeHadADoubleLife posted 11/17/2019 13:56 PM

Loving them doesn't mean you have to spend your live saving them from themselves.

Amen, Chaos! Amen!!!

[This message edited by HeHadADoubleLife at 1:57 PM, November 17th (Sunday)]

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/17/2019 14:47 PM

Loving them doesn't mean you have to spend your live saving them from themselves.

Absolutely! Sometimes loving them means you stop saving them.

Over got a communication question. I'm trying to figure if it's him or me. I ask my H direct questions. He answers me, but his answer doesn't really address my question. I don't know if it's him either not listening to my actual question, or maybe trying to interpret what I'm really asking. He has a history of doing that even though I've told him ad nauseam that I say what I mean and mean what I say. Or, maybe it's that I'm misunderstanding his answer.

A simple example. I went upstairs last night and found one of my shirts flung onto my side of the bed. It's a shirt that gets hung up in the closet, which is on the other side of the room where I left it. I asked H why my shirt was where it was. I wasn't made, just wondering. He said he didn't know. So, I asked how it got there. After a few rounds, he finally told me that he put it there. Ok, so why not say that when I first asked. "Why is my shirt over there?" "I put it there because it's yours and I didn't know where it went."

Another more serious example. I was listening to spotify on the TV. I paused it to do some stuff. H changed it to his music to see if he could get his account to connect. (We just got spotify.) He listens to country. I can't stand country music! I have never been able to stand country music. He knew this about me from the time we started dating. He didn't listen to country music then. He listened to rock and heavy metal. I'm not a fan of heavy metal, but I can deal. I cannot deal with country.

I asked him to turn off his music. His response was to say how he doesn't really like my music (rock), but didn't complain. M thinking, this is new. He used to listen to rock with me. He acted like he liked it. Now, because I said I can't stand the country music, which is not something new, he suddenly doesn't like mine. It's a tit for tat thing that he does a lot.

I asked why he does that sort of thing. Whenever I being something up that bothers me, he immediately says, "Well, you do this." Rather than answering my question about that, he kept arguing about our music likes and dislikes. I kept saying that was not what I was talking about. I was talking about his response/reaction.

It's like we're having 2 different conversations. I asking X. He's answering Y. I'll ask why, and answers what. The reason I wonder if it could be me is that I have run into this problem with other people. Am I missing something? Am asking the wrong question.

Lostheart8 posted 11/17/2019 17:49 PM

Catching up on the thread.

Do it GMC. Travel. Go to Denver!

I hate Xmas. Fuck that bullshit. No happy face. No cheer. Wish I could go somewhere else I hate Xmas day.

Like all of you here. Used to love it. Decorations. Big tree. Candles. Lights. Cooking. Gifts.

Then my dad passed and two months later my exh left me after the I love you but not in love with you speech. Since then fuck the holidays.

Two years ago I bought a pre lite tree. 3 feet high. Put 6 decorations on it. Meh.

Last year I brought it out and just plugged it in. No motivation to decorate. Naked tree.

This year Iím back to ďI donít give a shitĒ. Maybe Iíll buy a tree smelling candle. Iíve got enough motivation to lite that sucker.

Lol. Arenít we an unmerry bunch of women. We should rename our thread KTHITD. Just for the holidays.

Ho ho ho merry shitmas.

Lostheart8 posted 11/17/2019 17:56 PM

Coco - I get what youíre talking about. My exbf and I had the same issue. I say blue. He says green. Weíre fighting two different topics and neither one of us could see the other. Itís so frustrating.

HeHad - I love your unicorn. Itís funny ...because of this thread I see glitter everywhere. Maybe thatís our gift to each other? We see these silly things that remind us of our strength together, our support to each other? Well, I think itís a gift.

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/17/2019 18:55 PM

We're not fighting. I don't get an answer to the questions I'm asking.

Why is my shirt over there?
I don't know.

Did you put it there?

Then, how do you not know why it's there?


Why do you pull this tit for tat thing?
I'm not a fan of your music.

We've settled that. I'm asking you why, whenever I say I don't like something, rather than acknowledging that, you come back with a complaint about me?
I'm not a fan of your music. I just haven't said anything.

Ok, but that doesn't address why you don't say anything until I being something up. Then, you complain about ne.
No, I just don't like that music.


HeHadADoubleLife posted 11/17/2019 19:09 PM

A simple example. I went upstairs last night and found one of my shirts flung onto my side of the bed. It's a shirt that gets hung up in the closet, which is on the other side of the room where I left it. I asked H why my shirt was where it was. I wasn't mad, just wondering. He said he didn't know. So, I asked how it got there. After a few rounds, he finally told me that he put it there. Ok, so why not say that when I first asked. "Why is my shirt over there?" "I put it there because it's yours and I didn't know where it went."
I have to ask Coco, was your husband yelled at a lot as a child? Or did his family use corporal punishment? I ask because this type of deflection around a seemingly simple question is usually, at least IME, someone's attempt to tip toe around a topic in hopes that the real issue doesn't get addressed. And IME, people who do this were often victims of verbal or physical abuse as children. It is conflict avoidant to the extreme. Also, your need to stipulate "I wasn't mad, just wondering." means to me that he has interpreted your questioning as anger before, and if you're not coming from an angry place, FOO issues would be a good explanation as to why he interprets your questions that way.

I saw it in my XH a LOT. It was maddening. He was constantly trying to avoid "mad mommy" aka me, to the point where he wouldn't answer completely innocuous questions such as the one you asked about the shirt. No matter how many times we talked our way around, under and through this topic, he couldn't grasp that every question was not an inquisition, it was just a question. How did the shirt get from point A to point B? To us it is just a how question - trying to understand why something in our environment is different than it should be. To them it is a blaming question - "why on earth would my shirt be here, you are a worthless piece of shit for not knowing where this shirt goes." It's not logical, but I can't tell you how many times my XH interpreted a simple question to be a judgment of his character. And yes, he would say it out loud that "You obviously think I'm a piece of shit." Wait, what??

"Why is my shirt over there?" "I put it there because it's yours and I didn't know where it went." -- So why can't the exchange go exactly like this? That would be the super simple way to handle this. IME, the reason it doesn't go this way is because they are anticipating the next step in that conversation, where you might say, "Well, next time if you're not sure where it goes, just ask me and I'll tell you." Again, a perfectly reasonable response. But to someone with low self esteem, that reads as "Ok idiot, I can't believe you don't know where it goes. Next time just ask me so I can tell you what to do because I'm obviously smarter than you." They don't like the feeling they get when their rationale or motives are questioned, so they will do anything they can to avoid it.

Now, is that rational? No. If they just answered the question directly in the first place, you would have no need to continue this roundabout conversation. And, like I told my XH many times, his avoidance of the initial question is the thing that bothers me, and even potentially gets me angry at him - his honest answer would not. So his avoidance of the question is actually putting him in the very position he was trying to avoid in the first place

This pattern has become more and more evident to me as I see my step DDs and how they avoid conflict in their day to day lives. I knew it was a problem back then, sure, and I worked on it with them then, too. But I wasn't fully aware of the deep seated emotional abuse and covert incest issues that were going on behind my back, so I had no idea the depth of it. It's very clear to me now that they will avoid answering a question so that in the short term they feel "safe" from whatever response their answer might induce, and it has drawn my X's behavior into stark perspective.

I also wonder if your fch's military background has anything to do with this? Though that might be a chicken or the egg conversation - is he conflict avoidant because he is in the military and any kind of slip up would get him severely punished, or did he join the military because he was already conflict avoidant and this type of punish-first-ask-questions-later type of set up was what he felt comfortable in?

And yes, that tit-for-tat shit is obnoxious.

His response was to say how he doesn't really like my music (rock), but didn't complain.
When I begged him to please figure out a way to clean up after himself when he would have his masturbatory escapades, I was told "I don't complain that you have clutter all over your desk and your side of the bed?!" Um, ok dude, but we're talking about the fact that there is margarine all over the door knob to our bedroom, Not MY clutter on MY desk. The tit for tat crap is a defensive tactic designed to get you to stop talking about the issue that YOU want to talk about. I find that when people get defensive like that, it is because they KNOW they are in the wrong, but don't want to own up to it.

The reason I wonder if it could be me is that I have run into this problem with other people. Am I missing something? Am asking the wrong question.
I would say that no, you are not the problem here, at least not in your communication style. Your only problem might be that you seem to attract conflict avoidant people, and as someone who is the opposite, you will naturally butt heads with those types of people. Conflict avoidant people tend to seek out assertive people. They need someone to make decisions for them, as they don't know how to do it for themselves. Who else are you running in to that presents these same issues? Coworkers? Friends? Family members? I have a LOT of conflict avoidant coworkers and it drives me up a wall. But I've also learned to make it work for me. I'm the one person who is incredibly blunt and tells it like it is at work, to the point where people, especially newbies to our field, often ask me how I "get away with that." But I think that being the one truly honest person has benefitted me, in that my boss can trust that I won't sugar coat anything to kiss her ass. Could you explain the types of interactions you've had with others that feel similar to the ones with your husband? It might help us to draw out the communication issues you feel you're having.

Also, this might be totally off base, but I will give you an anecdote based off my own experience that might relate to yours. Background, I am a pretty intuitive person. I pick up on body language, tone of voice, the slightest change in facial expression, and I can predict what people are thinking, or what they are about to say, with an uncanny accuracy. Many, many people have commented on this, from coworkers, bosses, friends, my step Ds, even acquaintances. I attribute this to my mom being my primary care giver, and her being a pretty quiet, closed off person. A lot more was left unsaid, so I had to learn to interpret things like body language etc. to fill in the blanks. Now, when I hitched my wagon to my X, I signed up for life with a person who was conflict avoidant in every way, and my intuition, by necessity, kicked into overdrive. I mistakenly viewed this as a symbiotic relationship - my strengths are your weaknesses and all that. But my natural skill set allowed me to pick up on his issues, large and small, even sometimes microscopic, without him ever having to say a word, and instead of being a symbiotic relationship, it quickly became a parasitic one. So often, I "just knew". As he would put it, I was a mind-reader. Now I could then sit and go through every teeny tiny little thing that led me to whatever conclusion I had come to - the twitch in his lip, the way his eyes drifted off to the left, the change in his verbiage (he avoids contractions when he is lying) - in my attempt to show him that this wasn't some magic trick, that it was just finely tuned pattern recognition. But that would freak him out even more, and he would say "How do you know me so well??!!" I will add that this was a positively reinforced dynamic because while I learned later that he secretly resented me for this, he always said things like "How do you know me so well??!!" with a huge smile on his face accompanied by a hug and a kiss, so I only saw this as a positive give-and-take of our relationship. Barf, I know.

I wish more than anything that people would just say what they mean and mean what they say. It is how I operate, and I don't understand why everyone doesn't do the same. Unfortunately, I don't think *most* other people are like that, so developing a keen sense of intuition is a necessary survival tactic IMO. Now I had made it very, very clear to him hat I HATE having to read people's minds. I desperately wanted him to communicate with me openly and honestly. While I was/am intuitive, I of course didn't want to put words in his mouth, and I needed him to speak his own truth and be direct, so I would ask the question anyway, and he would force me to go through the rigamarole of asking all of these inane questions to get to an answer that I already knew, but he just for some reason did not want to voice. When all he had to do was be honest from the get go. This would often shut him down even more, and in my case, my intuition was something I did not, and still do not, know how to turn off. So while I craved direct communication, it was something that often didn't even need to happen because I knew the answer before I even asked the question, and his inability to open up meant that my mind just used my built in skill set as a bypass, thus creating the perfect storm.

Is it possible you have similar capabilities? When you asked the question, "Why is this shirt here?" did you not already probably have a couple scenarios in your head of how it got there? And is his answer of "I don't know" bothering you not just because it is an indirect answer to a very simple, direct question, but in fact because it is lying by omission? Something I'm assuming he did a lot of during the blame-shifting extravaganza of his A? And I would guess that knowing that he is lying about something so stupid makes you think, if you can lie about this, what other things are you lying about? At least that's where my mind goes.

I can tell you a time something similar happened to us, and I skipped straight on past the initial question of "Why is this shirt here?" to "Oh, did you not know where this goes in my closet? It's a button-up, so it goes in the hall closet, not the walk-in." Because just by walking in and seeing it on the bed, I ALREADY KNEW that this is exactly what had happened... he had picked it up from the dry cleaner, walked into my walk-in, saw that there were no other shirts like it in that closet, knew it didn't go there but didn't know where to put it, so he put it on my side of the bed. And he was shocked that I had just gotten home and walked into our room, and I already knew that this was the trajectory he had taken, to the point where he got paranoid and asked if I had installed a camera in our room.

All this to say, that my ability to read him so well, left him feeling very vulnerable. And instead of seeing that vulnerability as a good thing, as one of the many building blocks of a good, strong relationship, he saw that as a weakness, and pushed even harder to protect against it. Especially because he did not share my ability - I would say his intuition was wrong 90% of the time. And me being really good at something that he was almost laughably bad at really struck at his ego. Is it possible your husband is feeling weak/vulnerable due to your expectations of full transparency? That instead of seeing this vulnerability as positive, he sees it as a lack of privacy/punishment from you, or even a weakness in himself? Not that this is logical, but unhealthy people tend to see the laying-your-soul-bare kind of transparency that healthy people want in a relationship as something to avoid at all costs. He has been forced to really lay himself bare, and that is an incredibly uncomfortable feeling for most people. Change, even good change, feels incredibly uncomfortable, because it's unfamiliar. I forget, is he going to IC? Might be something he needs to explore - why honesty and transparency are such foreign concepts to him.

I know I've said this before but I'll say it again, over time I developed a response to "I don't know" that I felt was the only way I could possibly respond anymore: "I know that you know. You know, that I know, that you know. I know, that you know, that I know, that you know. So let's stop insulting my intelligence and just get to the point please!" That followed up with an assertive, knowing stare, usually got him to "fess up" without me having to ask a ton more questions.

gmc94 posted 11/17/2019 19:34 PM


Last time I was in therapy (2008) the counter to an issue thing came up ALL THE FUCKING TIME. I'd calmly tell my H (he'd already started to screw around, but I had no clue for another decade) about something bothering me. Could be something small like the music in your example, or something big (like I don't like being around you when you drink too much). His response was consistently the exact same thing as you describe: "well, you xyz".

My then therapist's advice was to calmly tell him that I understand he may have a problem with xyz, and I'd be happy to talk about that later, but in THIS moment, we are talking about abc (the music, the drinking, whatever). You are fee to bring up xyz at a later time, but not right now. It wasn't always effective, but it was better communicating and setting boundaries.

As to the lying/conflict avoidant stuff? My WH is exactly the same way - always has been. I think HHDL has some good points. The interpretation of simple questions as blaming has always seemed like the problem. And it also seems that no matter what words or tone of voice I use, it is always interpreted as something blaming.

The problem is that the answer (I don't know how your shirt got there) was NOT HONEST. No matter what the basis is for the knee-jerk lie, it is still a lie. And lies are not OK - right?

TBH, I would have concerns about these being red flags of minimizing/deflection and dishonesty. Yes, they may be "little things". It still strikes me as wayward behavior. Take with the proverbial projecting grain of salt - the deflecting stuff from my WH started right around the time his EA went PA. Maybe he'd been doing it before and I didn't really notice bc I hadn't been in IC. I don't know. You have come a long way (and my WH is not "R material" but that shit still triggers me.

One can argue "little things" both ways - if it's not a big deal, then why can't he be honest? If it is a big deal, then dishonesty is a red flag... right?

The changing music is just plain old rude. The counter to your legitimate and reasonable feelings of "you do x" is not Ok. It is minimizing - rather than validating - your legitimate and reasonable feelings. Why is that OK with him?

EllieKMAS posted 11/17/2019 19:50 PM

The little things... Yeah, you know if you pile them all up they weigh just as much as a big thing. I am with gmc, what he was lying about is not the problem. The problem is that he lied at all when there was absolutely NO reason to. That his first instinct was lying rather than telling the truth. "Sorry, I wasn't sure where to put your shirt." Issue solved.

Tallgirl posted 11/17/2019 20:57 PM

gmc I think that you should do whatever makes you happy for thanksgiving. You absolutely deserve that.

It has been a tough year, go enjoy.

Holidays do suck. I try to make plans that I know will be fun. I have done zero holiday family celebrations since DDay 2. Last Christmas I brought my boys to a girlfriends house. We had a blast. WH was at his familyís.

I plan on doing that again.

Though this past thanksgiving. (Mine is in October), I was asked 4 times to go to family celebrations where WH would br. Frankly I donít think I can face them ever again. I am ashamed. WH doesnít seem to be. It was hard to be by myself but I made it.

Coco, Whether it is over small things or not, lying is his default or natural response - not me. I didnít do it. He needs to understand why. HHADL and gmc have many good points. My guess is he doesnít know why, and will be defensive if you suggest therapy or reading.

Big hugs ladies. Monday is here soon. Sigh

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 9:22 PM, November 17th (Sunday)]

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