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pinkpggy posted 11/2/2019 07:41 AM

Thatcantbetrue- I hoped things would be different after many long talks about the state of our marriage. Not because I cheated and expected a different result.

As for the people that support me. I'm talking about NOW in my life. Not people wo condoned my affair. Do you not think a WS needs/deserves positive people and family? I don't really understand your point there. Are we supposed to sit alone in shame forever? I dropped all my affair related friends after dday.

sickofsurviving posted 11/2/2019 07:53 AM

When you "hoped things would be better" after your affair, you did mean worse for him, but better for you?

Also, the betrayed pay for your cheating their whole life, yet you're done after less than 3 years. Typical. Hasn't healed fast enough, hey?

Why don't you have mercy on your poor betrayed and leave? Its obvious he is miserable.

Justsomelady posted 11/2/2019 07:58 AM

Pink - youíve tried and tried. He is not interested in helping himself. Three years out and you have shown all manner of remorse, you donít have to keep whipping yourself by staying in his misery. You messed up, you worked on yourself, you learned, but he is unfortunately a broken man and canít continue the journey with you in his state - which is clearly related to but not solely caused by the affair as his drinking is an ongoing issue. Time to leave, I think.

thatcantbetrue posted 11/2/2019 08:00 AM

I don't really understand your point there. Are we supposed to sit alone in shame forever?

You're supposed to not have it easy. Say what you want, the person you betrayed is the only one who shows you your actions were not okay. Let alone, you know, a rape and murder of your marriage and his chances for a future.

How is he supposed to feel in these conditions?

pinkpggy posted 11/2/2019 08:03 AM

I agree with you and no where did I say he is supposed to feel different. My post was that I need help to understand what more I can do. And is where we are at normal.

You can take tidbits of what I said and twist it to make it fit your narrative. But I've clearly stated I've been all in and I need help knowing what to do now.

BeyondRage posted 11/2/2019 09:00 AM

Pink

I agree with you and no where did I say he is supposed to feel different. My post was that I need help to understand what more I can do. And is where we are at normal.
You can take tidbits of what I said and twist it to make it fit your narrative. But I've clearly stated I've been all in and I need help knowing what to do now.

Pink - youíve tried and tried. He is not interested in helping himself. Three years out and you have shown all manner of remorse, you donít have to keep whipping yourself by staying in his misery. You messed up, you worked on yourself, you learned, but he is unfortunately a broken man and canít continue the journey with you in his state - which is clearly related to but not solely caused by the affair as his drinking is an ongoing issue.

What strikes me is that unlike some you have checked ALL the boxes on what you are SUPPOSED to do to attempt to rebuild some sort of new marriage. It keeps getting repeated that to do that it takes two people ALL IN.

And as a BH your BH is NOT all in and appears to be in no hurry to get all in. He is entitled to still be one angry guy, but at some point either has to channel his emotions into a more positive way or get out. I am not suggesting I know when that moment should be but you cannot remain in this state long term.

I get he is shattered, and some of that may be because it sounds like you had a bunch of friends who knew that you had to jettison adding to his humiliation if he knew them to. But it appears to me the drinking is his one way of getting even with you because of how it effects everything and he is in total control of that and is subconsciously paying you back.

Now since I am not a qualified shrink I could be totally wrong.

Once you reach your breaking point, which it seems is close, I would still find someone you know he trusts, go take the polygraph and take away his doubts and accusations and see if you can jar him into at least stopping the destructive to himself behavior.

If its a deal breaker for him, which is OK, he needs to accept that and take action.

thatcantbetrue posted 11/2/2019 09:46 AM

Those are words. What do you *do* about the fact that nobody is holding you responsible despite knowing, and he is alone and therefore has trouble coping with that too?

What do you do about the fact that he sees you free of consequences and he is seen as the bad guy?

If what you're asking is exactly what you could have done, well it doesn't look to me that you've spent much energy thinking about it, despite all the validation inclined to believe so around there. Acknowledging to him that you realize, not just that the situation he's in is as far from fair as can be, but he's also treated unfairly by family and friends would probably be some kind of start. That okay, maybe these persons are not acknowledging the facts as they should be, but there are probably others out there who would if they were more realistic.

But at the end of the day, even if there is nothing you could do, I mean, that's kind of what infidelity is. It's literally like rape and murder. Once it's done, there is nothing you can do anymore. What I meant was that it shouldn't come as a surprise that he isn't doing good when he has no validation for his feelings.

[This message edited by thatcantbetrue at 9:56 AM, November 2nd (Saturday)]

pinkpggy posted 11/2/2019 09:52 AM

Thiscantbetrue- I'm not sure what you are talking about. Or if you are projecting your situation.

In the 32 months since dday I have faced many consequences. I have met all the requirements he put upon me in order to reconcile. I have never wavered in ACTIONS or my words. I have been consistent.

My husband is not the bad guy.

Justsomelady posted 11/2/2019 09:53 AM

I donít understand what more she is supposed to do? She should just keep rubbing her nose continuously in her shit? Sheís owned it and done what she can for three years to help her husband who has had a long term drinking problem that preceded the affair. This is about more than her. It sounds over to me and you are just wanting to make her live in interminable state of punishment?

thatcantbetrue posted 11/2/2019 10:03 AM

You say that you know he's not the bad guy, but, you're just one person saying that and not in a great position to count. From another point of view, how can that be that he's not the bad guy when everyone has been supportive of you?

You had consequences? Like what? Would your husband agree that you had consequences, even if he was fully honest?

Again I don't think she could do anything anymore, but it shouldn't come to a surprise that a BS cannot cope well when they're firced to be that alone.

Darkness Falls posted 11/2/2019 10:16 AM

Thatcantbetrue,

What consequences do you think should be appropriate? How should her family and friends treat her, in your opinion?

thatcantbetrue posted 11/2/2019 10:34 AM

There is no such thing as appropriate consequences, and that's exactly the problem a BS has to deal with. At the very least acknowledging that they're forced to witness the absence of consequences and that it is excruciatingly hard on them, seems to me to be a minimum.

Family, friends, everyone who wants to empathize with victims of infidelity, should at least blame the WS and express disappointment, possibly with reiteration depending on circumstances.

sisoon posted 11/2/2019 10:42 AM

pink,

One thing I think you need to do is separate recovery from Reconciliation. They're different.

Recovery for you is: you heal you.

Recovery for your H is: he heals himself. He needs to accept his anger, grief, fear, and shame and process it out of his body. He's the only one who can do that for him. You can't do it for him.

Recovery for your M requires both of you to work together - that's R.

R can't begin unless your H starts to heal himself. It just can't. R takes 2.

You fucked up. You betrayed yourself, and you betrayed your H. But your posts say you've accepted responsibility and changed. That's all you can do.

I have great sympathy for your H. Your actions may have sent him spiraling down - but he was responsible for doing that, and he's responsible for getting back up.

D Ė Donít
E Ė Even
T Ė Think
A Ė About
C Ė Changing
H Ė Him.

You're entitled to save yourself.

jb3199 posted 11/2/2019 10:45 AM

Pink,

Time has elapsed, and it really comes down to (2) main issues right now:

1. His drinking
2. Your level of tolerance to stay in THIS marriage.

I know that we are on an infidelity website, but sometimes the infidelity is not the headline. You own your A, you continue to work on yourself. Hopefully, your boundaries are now strong, and can be a safe partner.

But he isn't owning his drinking. People can go round and round to decide what defines an 'alcoholic', but from what you've described since you joined here definitely shows that alcohol is a problem with your husband. Like you stated earlier, he has drank at some level since day 1....minus the dry stages. I'm sure you had no idea when you first met him what sustained alcohol consumption can do to a person over an extended period of time, but here you are. Your husband simply cannot commit, to anything, until he is sober. Unfortunately, this is something that I learned over time. Your marriage has no chance of healing as long as this remains an active part of his life.

So what to do? The million dollar question. The same basics that apply to a BS getting out of infidelity apply here. You have to be willing to end the marriage for a chance to save it. You can't accept this behavior, and if he is unwilling to change, your options become very limited in how to extract yourself from this situation. Let him know that you are all in for saving this marriage, but you can't do it alone. As sorry as you are for betraying him in the past, all that you can do is work to be a good partner going forward, but you can't let your past allow for his own self destructive behavior.

Then YOU work towards getting yourself out of this situation. See an attorney. Work on emotionally detaching. All the things we advise to a betrayed spouse applies here. It may not be what you want, but how many times have you've been told that you can only control yourself?

pinkpggy posted 11/2/2019 10:47 AM

Thatcantbetrue-Im not sure why you assume none of those things haven't happened to me. They have.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:52 AM, November 2nd (Saturday)]

Rustylife posted 11/2/2019 11:34 AM

I hope you do realise that you don't need to convince anybody on this site. People will always judge you and doubt your efforts. These circular arguments won't lead you anywhere. At this point you should ask yourself as to what is holding you back from separating? Do you still love him? Can love even exist in this situation? When all respect and consideration is completely one sided? Why don't you want to divorce? Your husband has told you plainly that things won't change.

I remember a few months back, a BS here (Iwanymyglasses I think) talking about forgiveness and empathy. She had a friend who cheated but then tried everything to recover her marriage. Her husband never got to that place. I think if my ex was remorseful I would be pretty much like your husband. In a perpetual state of bitterness and making life miserable for all. Some people aren't able to forgive. Nothing wrong with that but you should stop waiting for a day when he stops being who he is. It won't happen.

[This message edited by Rustylife at 11:35 AM, November 2nd (Saturday)]

waitedwaytoolong posted 11/2/2019 11:39 AM

Some things just may be dealbreakers. His treatment of you prior to the affair was a deal breaker for you. You broke the deal by going outside the marriage. Itís not one that should be condoned, but just pointing out thatís how you broke the deal instead of getting a divorce. It sounds like a lot happened to you prior to that point

You having the affair, then continuing it was probably a deal breaker for him. Add in the threat of the APís wife dragging you, and him into a court, and you pile on even more humiliation. It is probably something he just canít live with.

I will differ from others in thinking his drinking relates to the infidelity. A drinker drinks. The reasons morph into one that is convenient as the drink goes down your throat. I drink because my job sucks, I drink because my parents treated me badly, I drink because my wife had an affair. The reason really doesnít matter His drinking needs to be addressed as a whole other issue

My guess is you are both beating a dead horse. My wife like you did her best to reinvent the marriage. I was happy with the old one and ultimately realized I didnít want the replacement model. Like you, there was nothing she could do as I wasnít going to budge out of my hurt He isnít going to budge either

I think you need to work out some kind of divorce or separation. I know with young kids divorce can be rough, but you need to step away at this point. He will either decide to come towards you. Or not move. Either way you will not be expending energy of something fruitless and could put it to better use.

I will say that the verbal abuse hopefully will stop. I did it for a year. I stopped when the satisfaction of my words hurting her, were nothing compared to how rotten I felt afterwards when I did it. At this point you should not be tolerating the abuse and stand up to it.

Itís not an easy spot you are in

cheatstroke posted 11/2/2019 11:54 AM

I am completely at a loss on how to proceed, and I feel like I need others insight to help me.

Why not see about reconciliation after divorce? I know you said you have no interest in that, but you've tried everything else and nothing has worked.

Once he's divorced and alone, he'll probably keep drinking hard for a while, but at some point he may just realize that his life just keeps getting worse and worse.

He'll see this and maybe think to himself geez, here I am, just me and my bottle, and my life just keeps getting worse. I've removed everyone from my life that fucked me over. It's just me and my bottle against the world, yet my life just keeps getting worse.

How can my life keep getting worse if I've removed everyone that fucked me over and it's only me and my bottle? Could it be that my bottle is actually the one fucking me over? Maybe I should try removing that and see what happens.

What do you have to lose?

[This message edited by cheatstroke at 1:16 AM, November 6th (Wednesday)]

thatcantbetrue posted 11/2/2019 12:03 PM

I assumed that because you said the people around you are very supportive. Someone who blames you and demands to see what you're doing so that you don't ruin their lives too, usually isn't described as supportive, let alone very.

If that's what you describe as very supportive, I guess I see your point. That's close to what I've been through. All there is to see is that he's not managing to cope while trying to R.

Chaos posted 11/2/2019 12:11 PM

Iíve been giving this more thought. And I wonder outloud if heís stuck between the realization that this indeed was a dealbreaker for him but knowing if he D because of it that heíd destroy your family and children. If thatís the case heís in a lose-lose situation.

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