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WS to WS

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hikingout posted 10/10/2019 09:45 AM

Hello everyone,

Well, I am going to try this as a free form type topic for WS. I think this has been tried before, but there have been a few recent events on the board where I am thinking the time might be right for this.

So, to me this thread is just for us to talk about whatever is on our minds. There are many of us who probably don't have a reason to start a thread, but still may want to visit smaller things, or explore topics about infidelity. I saw one poster say she feels she needs to talk but she doesn't know what to ask about on a post. And, we had another post that turned into an interesting general discussion with some very thought provoking ideas that came out.

Also sometimes I just want to hear how someone is doing who doesn't post as often any more. They are people who are more likely to chime in occasionally, but they are not likely to post their own thread.

In order to get the ball rolling, I will start with a general question but hope that it kind of free flows from there.

In your infidelity (besides the pain you caused to yourself or to your spouse or the affair itself as those things are quite obvious) - what would be your biggest regret?

pinkpggy posted 10/10/2019 09:50 AM

Unprotected sex. I was going to start a thread the other day, but I don't have the time to keep checking and replying.

I was listening to something about someone having unprotected sex and was like, how stupid. And then I was like sent into a mind warp about having unprotected sex with my AP. While being a 38 year old woman, who not only could get STDs but could have easily gotten pregnant. I literally just don't even recognize myself. Like, how did I think that ok...and I understand that I wasn't thinking, I was being a person I no longer am, which was what I was going to post about, acts during the affair that made you feel like a different person, allowed you to act like you never would.

I feel sick about it.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 9:52 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]

Lostgirl410 posted 10/10/2019 09:53 AM

Aside from the pain caused, my biggest regret is choosing to act in ways that stomped on my own self-respect.

For me, it's much easier to gain respect back for others than for myself.

hikingout posted 10/10/2019 10:03 AM

Pink - that is an excellent one. I know so many BS's say that was part of their WS's affair, or WS's who say they did that so I think you are in a majority. In fact, I have one former friend who had an affair (I hear they are getting married ) who didn't do that as well. Why do you think you did it? Did you feel like he wouldn't like it as much or was there some other reason? I think this is an interesting topic all on it's own, it would be good to see some other's chime in on why they think they went without it as well.

Lost - Yep - I agree with that 100%. We have an affair based on a lack of self love and self respect, and when the affair is over our stock in that plummets even further.

pinkpggy posted 10/10/2019 10:08 AM

Why do you think you did it? Did you feel like he wouldn't like it as much or was there some other reason?

Well, looking at it now I think I did it because it was a risk. I was being someone I never had been before. I was sexy, carefree, fun, throw caution to the wind. It felt like a thrill to say I wanted him to go naturally, to cum inside me (and vise versa). It made it all the more illicit to do.

In the moment, it just seemed easier. I "trusted him" and I had feelings for him. He had only been with his wife, I had only been with my husband. We started off with condoms but after the relationship progressed we were comfortable enough to go with out. Condoms where just one more piece of the puzzle, one more step to worry about, so it was easier to go without. Very stupid on ALL fronts.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:09 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]

FoenixRising posted 10/10/2019 10:41 AM

Thank you for starting this thread HIO. I can think Of no better member to do so. 💗

My biggest regret is ruining decades upon decades of friendship. And how I was that person is beyond me. I remember condoning things in my head bc it was just bigger than me and the universe gave me AP as a new beginning and fate had us madly in love. It wasnít either of our faults. 😖🤢🤮🥴

I wasnít embarrassed at the time of the affair. I was regretful to hurt so many but I was sure in my love for AP. Now, Iím somewhat embarrassed in hindsight and my feelings for AP are undefined. I know some people say that until you reach indifference for AP, youíre still relatively foggy. I donít feel foggy anymore but Iím not exactly indifferent. I still feel very confused about feelings for AP and his wife. I debate with myself whether that is worth exploring. My gut tells me let sleeping dogs lie. They just had a beautiful baby. Someone sent me a photo of her pregnant. It was an unexpected text to open. She looked so beautiful and light and happy in a way I hadnít ever seen her before. This filled my heart and also took my breathe away with sadness at the same time bc of the choices I made to lose such a friendship. Oddly, sometimes I hope that she leaves AP bc sheís so much better than him. Then I find myself getting angry at AP for what he did to her, when I did the same thing with AP!!!! Itís just weird up inside my head.

Iíve also thought about sending her a letter that just says how truly happy I am for her. Her glow, her new baby. Her soul. Again to tell her how much I regret choices made and to apologize yet again. But she looks like she is in such a great place, Iíd rather just remain a memory. And I know that choice is best.

FoenixRising posted 10/10/2019 10:43 AM

Pink- can you remind me what happened with your AP and post d day?

How are you holding up with BS? I think of you often and always sending you light and all the best vibes.

pinkpggy posted 10/10/2019 10:43 AM

My biggest regret is ruining decades upon decades of friendship.

Even in a general sense I lost several friendships and damaged others. I lied to so many people. Its really sad. I just never knew the destruction I would cause.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:51 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]

FoenixRising posted 10/10/2019 10:46 AM

Lostgirl! Yes! 100%.

That was a hard part to own and sometimes continues to be for me as well. My A was well known amount our friend group and community... occasionally a friend makes a comment that reaffirms the lack of respect. Itís bever a blatant or intended dig at me but it always puts me in my place and reminds me what a monster I was.

hikingout posted 10/10/2019 10:47 AM

Condoms where just one more piece of the puzzle, one more step to worry about, so it was easier to go without. Very stupid on ALL fronts.

Yes. And, honestly, the sexual aspect of my affair was 3 times - I hadn't gotten to it yet, but I am sure it would have been a matter of time before I started going sans protection as well. I was very much playing the same role, the only thing that saved me from this thing was lacking of opportunity. Thank you for that honest answer, I think it might help other WS look at their why for it. It's hard to be brave enough to say your mindset on those types of things in the affair.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:48 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 10/10/2019 10:52 AM

Letting the OM gaslight me because I wanted the ego kibbles so badly. For that validation to "matter," I had to believe that the person who wanted me was a person worth attracting. There were so many red flags, and I just refused to see them, even in retrospect.

Some of the mind games he played, that I allowed him to play, were a little scary. He seemed so nice. People still believe he's nice, and I wonder if he grew up and changed, or if he's going to be that criminal on the news someday where the stunned neighbors say, "I can't believe it. He seemed so nice."

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 1:51 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]

hikingout posted 10/10/2019 11:05 AM


While I think it's probably best for your to stay NC, I do think you should sort through these feelings more. I have already pushed you on that though ;-) I think your situation is very complicated and that makes thoughts of both the AP and his wife very complicated. And, I am sure it complicates their feelings as well.

To begin to unravel it, let me see if I can frame this for you from my situation. I didn't know AP's wife. But, I had the same responsibilities to her as a woman as you had to your friend. I feel guilt (currently) about her and had at one time complicated feelings towards her (formerly) as well (like she probably deserves better, or other lamentations that basically indicate I know better for her than she does, which if you think about my situation that is very insulting to her). But, one of the things I have to believe in is redemption because I too am experiencing it. I assume given the longevity of their marriage and their Christian background they decided to stay together (I don't know what happened to the AP ultimately). So, the best thing I can do is realize she has chosen the life she wants and that the AP will do what it takes to earn that grace she is giving him. For her sake, I have to say I fully hope he does that and honors her and cherishes her the way he promised to do way back when they got married.

I guess that was a long winded way to say, wish them the best. I think you might find your way better if that is what you focus on. I also think that part of the reason you want to reach out to her to make yourself feel better, but nothing is going to make you feel better. That just will be a scar you will carry like all the other scars - it will fade in time but right now it's still very raw and unhealed. You will first have to really take accountability the degree in which you disregarded her and abandoned her, but find ways to make amends by the way you conduct yourself moving forward. Not doing it to anyone else. Becoming a better friend to others with a different understanding of love. Honor her in the way you move forward, and wish them peace and light.

Again, you can just sit with what I am saying as I think a lot of this has to come out in layers and time.

pinkpggy posted 10/10/2019 11:10 AM

Pink- can you remind me what happened with your AP and post d day?
How are you holding up with BS? I think of you often and always sending you light and all the best vibes.

I was caught/semi confessed. And continued with trying to detangle the affair, end it, he was caught about 6 weeks later with by his wife who hired a PI (April of 2017). She threatned to sue us both, she was an attorney and assitant DA. That was the last time I ever saw or spoke to him. That was it. My husband contacted the wife about 6 months later to verify NC and match details. I have no idea if he has spoken to her since.

Things here are still day to day. I'd say much much better than the were, thanks to time, but overall I still don't know if its something we will ever overcome.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 11:13 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]

FoenixRising posted 10/10/2019 11:27 AM

HIO- I feel like I have done that though but you are adamant that I have not. Are basing that on the idea that I said I loved her during my affair and that you do not agree with me that I did?

I do wish them the best. I hope heís treating her like she deserves and that is why she is glowing... the amount of love surrounding her... and her children. I continue to love them and their family and thatís why I continue NC. Since the bbq that we were all invited to this summer and the awkwardness of that event and figuring who was going and blah, blah, blah... I decided that I am just going to give all the parties to AP and family, for APís BS. She deserves to go to everything, head up and not worried Iím trying to implode her family... again. My friendships with the gang are solid enough theyíll thrive without the group get togethers. And my BS, gets to decide what he wants to do himself. To go or not to go. I support his decision either way. I trust heíll conduct himself appropriately if AP and family is there.

FoenixRising posted 10/10/2019 11:30 AM

Pink- when did your fog fade? How do you feel about AP today?

I worry about your spirit. It seems so deflated. Are you practicing any self care?

pinkpggy posted 10/10/2019 11:39 AM

Pink- when did your fog fade? How do you feel about AP today?
I worry about your spirit. It seems so deflated. Are you practicing any self care?

My "Fog" took about 6 months to fade, and I probably was fully out of it at 8 months. My affair was a lot of bombs going off for MONTHS after dday. So it kept getting prolonged. The final bomb was my husband contacting the wife.

How do I feel about him today? I honestly don't. I was having a conversation and the person asked his name, and I couldn't recall it! I shocked myself with that one.

I am really busy with work, I enjoy my job, my kids are doing well, I work out at an all female bootcamp every day. So things are ok. Not great, but every day is a new day....

BraveSirRobin posted 10/10/2019 12:27 PM

Why do you think you did it? Did you feel like he wouldn't like it as much or was there some other reason?
I thought he wouldn't like it as much, and I wanted to make an impression. I also believed that he was "safe" (see gaslighting regret, above).

JBWD posted 10/10/2019 12:37 PM

Two that are tied for biggest regrets

1) The time my family was owed that I devoted to lying. I know I talk a lot about obligation, and itís not that I was depriving my family of me. I was just doing wrong. And so much of it. BW feels obligation differently than I do and sees any obligation as ďculturalĒ in nature, and as such in some ways artificial or coercive. I see them as much more intrinsic, as compelling to do what is commonly/universally good. Nuance to be sure but all to say counter to what is universally right.

2) The NUMEROUS opportunities I could have recognized to stem cheating behaviors before it got here. My BW made a lot of concessions to how I understood our relationship (Simplest being tolerating porn even though it VERY DEEPLY made her feel inadequate.) Online interactions that were isolated but occurred years prior DESTROYED her. And after those couple occasions I would cry with her because I didnít feel good. But I didnít empathize or absorb her hurt. And so rugswept. These were all opportunities that, had I had an ounce of insight, could have fueled the change that could have salvaged a fulfilling relationship for both of us. Instead I just shrugged and convinced my wife and myself that Iíd ďget it next time.Ē

hikingout posted 10/10/2019 12:53 PM

Are basing that on the idea that I said I loved her during my affair and that you do not agree with me that I did?

Not at all. I was basing my response today that you were opening up about your complicated feelings towards AP/OBS. You will experience different levels of accountability/guilt etc until it's processed. That's all I meant. It's far from processed, there is a lot tangled up in there.

I don't assume you don't wish them the best, I am just commenting that I had the same thoughts about the OBS being naÔve for taking back a serial cheater. But, have had to harness them into just wishing her the best instead. I hope he told her about the others and she has an honest marriage to build on.

No, my comments really were just on what you said today. You said it's a mess in your head. I think it's because you really might be stuck in processing it the same way over and over, but my comments are meant to kind of give you some thoughts on harnessing it differently? I think you might think that I think I know the answers, but I don't. I am just mirroring back to you what you are saying.

hikingout posted 10/10/2019 14:17 PM

Okay, I haven't answered my own question yet.

So, it's very hard for me to pinpoint something that doesn't equate to taking the affair back. But, I think maybe I regret suspending belief, not trusting my instincts about the AP and getting out of it before I was in so deep. Trusting him with things I shouldn't have trusted him with. I am humiliated that he is out there with intimate knowledge of me and should not be.

Everything else probably falls in the buckets of what I said the answer couldn't be.

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