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Betrayed Womenz Thread

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EllieKMAS posted 10/4/2019 10:21 AM

Daisy shit like that makes me wanna do the "shoulda had a V8" head slap on him. Everything Dee said x2!! And no, you are absolutely not overreacting.

HB - If it's bugging you, you should absolutely bring it up. If you don't it will just fester and percolate until you completely lose your shit because you burned the bread in the oven (ask me how I know that).

I figured out why I was so weepy. Prob TMI, but my periodical showed up. It has not been regular for a loooong time and I have been without it for over a year. Showed up last night and I was like a-HA, this explains the weepiness and the fact that I was feeling homicidal. Well... more homicidal than usual anyways.

Happy Friday girls! Hope everyone is having a fabulous sparkly sassy day!

Chaos posted 10/4/2019 10:24 AM

What a shocker when he found himself naked with his penis inside her vag!

Spit my coffee and laughed hysterically.

And may I say on this FUCKING FRIDAY - FUCK ALL APs and stupid shit waywards say. And they say some stupid shit.

What/Who are we toasting this weekend?

DevastatedDee posted 10/4/2019 13:06 PM

I figured out why I was so weepy. Prob TMI, but my periodical showed up.

I love you so much for that autocorrect!

EllieKMAS posted 10/4/2019 13:11 PM

DD - not autocorrect, intentional!

I can't stand all the euphamisms for it, nor "period" so I usually call it my periodical or my punctuation

On another note, has anyone watched 'Fleabag' on Amazon? Fucking hilarious!

Edited - slight infidelity trigger warning on this show. Oddly didn't bother me as much as it usually does tho. Maybe because they treated it like it is an awful thing instead of like it is romantic.

[This message edited by EllieKMAS at 3:02 PM, October 4th (Friday)]

cocoplus5nuts posted 10/4/2019 14:47 PM

Daisy, I don't think you overreacted. What was the purpose of him turning off the location software? You knowing where he is doesn't mean he has to talk to you. I don't get it.

Also, he should've been the one to apologize for last night. It was too soon (might never be a part of your M) again. He caused all of that.

I hope your daughter can get some peace now. I understand why the boy's parents want him to apologize, but they need to understand that he assaulted and traumatized her. He needs to just stay away.

I have not talked to my son about the condoms yet. I'm waiting for my fch to do it. He is so uncomfortable with that sort of stuff, but I really think it would be best to for the boy to talk to his father. He doesn't want his mom talking to him about sex.

I don't expect my fch to do it. I'll remind him a few times. He'll say he was going to, just hasn't found the right time. I'll give up on him and have the talk myself.

DaisyAnne posted 10/4/2019 14:57 PM

Daisy, I don't think you overreacted. What was the purpose of him turning off the location software? You knowing where he is doesn't mean he has to talk to you. I don't get it.

I really don’t know. He was at work when he did it.

As far as the apology letter, if he does write it he will give it to the counselor and she’ll give it to my daughter. He is to have no contact with her. Even her teachers know this now.

I agree, the dad should talk to the son.

DevastatedDee posted 10/4/2019 15:03 PM

D - not autocorrect, intentional!
I can't stand all the euphamisms for it, nor "period" so I usually call it my periodical or my punctuation

Even better!

DevastatedDee posted 10/4/2019 15:05 PM

Turning off the location software is like saying "fuck you, you're not the boss of me". That was passive aggressive and BEYOND not okay.

DaisyAnne posted 10/4/2019 15:09 PM

I agree. I don’t know if he did it just for that moment and didn’t think i would see. I don’t mention that I check it often (for him and also our children). Either way, I made it clear it has to always stay on.

Tallgirl posted 10/4/2019 16:33 PM

DaisyAnne, I agree with DD and others. Your WH should be taking care of you and considerate of your feelings. Turning on porn after an A without having a quick convo… like hey, want to watch some porn and have fun. Feels a little inconsiderate to me. Then turning off his locator. Not cool.

The apology owed was from him...

I don't know why they say stupid stuff. My WH went to the whore's house to pick up his belongings after they broke up, he didn't want to go into her apartment and fuck her, but she cried.

Who should we toast? Let's toast our recent additions! who already feel like old friends on this thread!!

gmc94 posted 10/4/2019 16:36 PM

DaisyAnne: I agree to bring up the sex stuff. And for Heaven's sake - you NEVER need to apologize for crying when triggered. I mean NEVER. EVER. I understand you were apologizing for the moment being lost - but the subconscious implication is apologizing for the reason things went south - the trigger. And then further subconscious message is that you are somehow responsible for having a trigger that prompted the rest of the chain of events.
Repeat after me - every damn day until it's in your blood: You "did not ask for any of this." You didn't ask for triggers. You didn't ask for mind movies that screw up intimacy. He should be apologizing to YOU for creating trauma that causes you to experience a deep emotional pain when trying to have sex. I suggest he read up on trauma and relational trauma response.
[stepping off angry soapbox]

That TV shit sucks. It’s gotten a lot better for me over time. Now, I still sometimes get anxious about it – esp when the plotline suggests an A may be ABOUT to happen. But mostly it’s Ok. Come to think of it, it may be better bc I’m not watching TV with WH now that we are S…. so it may be something about seeing that stuff together vs on my own. We did go see the film “the Wife” earlier this year (which has infidelity storylines), and I managed to get through it relatively intact.

And I really hope your DD is doing ok. My DD went through a lot of this – most of which she never told us about (she has a strong independent streak that sometimes kicks her in the backside…. can’t imagine where she got THAT from). But it really darkened a lot of her youth, so I think it’s a win that she talked to you and a another that the boy’s parents are on board.

Daisy Anne & HB: Good on you to “just say no” to your WH's issues with transparency. You deserve spouses who will try to move mountains if it helps you process and cope for even 5 extra minutes. Sorry, but this is a mess that WH caused. All by himself. And he needs to do the work to clean it the fuck up. If that means transparency ALWAYS, then so be it. If that's too much work for him, and he’s too worried about you “being the boss” of him, he knows just where the fucking divorce court is. My WH pulled similar shit all the time in the first 7-8 months after dday (hell, he's pulled it a time or two even after suicide attempt). It ain't right. It ain't OK, and each of us DESERVE a partner that is doing every fucking thing he can (w/in reason) to restore our trust and sanity in the world. He was perfectly able to figure out how to lie and cheat, he should be perfectly competent to figure out how to do the opposite. So if he’s officed in a bomb shelter, he needs to let you know he’s entering a bomb shelter and explain why there is no wifi for his phone to connect to in case you need to reach him. And why on earth any WS thinks it's ok to turn of GPS needs a swift kick in the nuts
[ok. Again, steps off angry soapbox].

Coco+5: that bullshit story is disrespectful to your intelligence – and whatever intelligence he actually does possess. Why was even sexting OK in his mind? Why was receiving a bikini photo ok in his mind? That stuff alone is enough to cause major marital disruption for not shutting that shit down. He may not be the brightest bulb, but even if it’s only got the wattage of a keychain light, it’s a bulb – that can illuminate shit… like sexting may not jive with one’s vows (or integrity).
[was that a soapbox I was just on? ]

He said that, when I question him, he feels like he's being attacked and that I am judging him and think he's an idiot….. he's not wrong that i think he's an idiot.

I essentially lost all my respect for him when he cheated. He is an idiot. I also see him as very weak. It's so hard to not convey that when he does or says something stupid now.

It sounds like he’s behaving like an idiot, not being mindful of switching things up, and then pissed and defensive when he’s called out for being an idiot that won’t do the work to see one step in front of him (even with the shitty keychain flashlight)? Am I missing something? I’m gonna wager that you don’t enjoy thinking he’s an idiot…. so how to get out of that headspace? What can he do to allow you some comfort that he’s thought beyond the shallowest of shallow?

Sorry for the projecting, but I don’t think I could find any safety in that kind of thinking. I dunno. Maybe I’m expecting too much, but my attitude has been that him having an LTA has damn near completely changed me as a human being, so why is it so hard to grasp the concept that I expect him to make some monumental changes as well? I don’t think or feel the same as I did 2yrs ago. About trust, about safety, about the world. I am strong and surviving, but I am still a very different person. I suppose some would say that I have to let that concept go if I want to stay M. I kind of see it that I deserve to be in a partnership with someone whose actions and behavior indicate emotional safety – at LEAST relative to the “safety” shown to date.

FWIW, I lost all respect for my WH too, and I also now see him as weak. It’s a headspace I never in a million years thought I’d be – even the possibility of those feelings blow my mind, I saw him as my solid, respectable, “boy scout”, rock for sooooo many years. It’s really sad to lose that. And to wonder what – if anything – could replace those feelings. I don’t know how to find respect for someone that’s treated me so disrespectfully by having an LTA, and then continued to disrespect with all the post dday bullshit. He wants my respect, he needs to earn it by behaving in a courageous and respectful manner.

And that role playing his mom? I gotta hand it to you – ya got some serious lady cajones going on there. I don’t think I could do that. Kind of gives me the willies just thinking about it, but I suppose if I was told it could move the needle, I’d try to find a way to inflate my own lady balls and fake it til I make it.

The condoms in a 15yo’s laundry are, IMO, a good thing. DECADES ago someone I knew told me her then 12 or 13yo son asked for an increase in his allowance. When she asked why, he said that condoms were expensive. So, he’s being responsible. Sounds like you’ll “have the talk”. With my son & daughter it’s wasn’t “the” talk, but a series of talks that go on until they are done with college (and maybe even beyond. This stuff is hard to navigate – and while I think there are changes since I was a teen that are good (eg let’s be clear about consent), the advent of the Internet and SM, with the porn and mixed messages has gotta be tough. FB wasn’t public til my DS was a senior in HS…. but my poor DD had to deal with all of that junk (and the film 8th Grade is an excellent glimpse into the shit our young’uns have to deal with today). I’d give WH a deadline for him to do it. And if he doesn’t then step in – otherwise, does it have the potential to build a resentment? Again, maybe I’m projecting, but isn’t conflict avoidance one of the top 10 behaviors behind an A? So, I’d frame it as an opportunity for him to do some of his own healing - by not avoiding something uncomfortable with this son.


Because you can put shit in a box, doesn't mean you didn't shit and that it doesn't stink.
I LOVE this. thank you! May your wine be chilled to perfection!

AmIAnIdiot: Holy cow! I’m glad your DS is ok – that is some scary stuff!

EllieK: When I’d talked to my new trauma IC about feeling hopeless, she said that it wasn’t hopelessness as much as it was rage. It kind of threw me for a loop (mostly bc on a 1-10 scale, my rage as gone from 150 to 3-4). Then I looked into depression & anger, and lo & behold! It’s a thing (was kind of an aha moment like when I learned about hysterical bonding). She recommended two books aimed at women and rage. One is called “Rage Becomes Her” and the focus is rechanneling rage into something productive and positive (eg using it as an impetus to fight for societal change). That one didn’t really hit it with me, as I’ve spent a lifetime fighting for women’s rights / societal change and I now want to find ways to work through the rage and find more peace (can’t get political, but I’ve been holding a sign or making policy in one form or another since I was a teenager – I don’t need any more incentive to fight on this front, it’s been my life’s work). She also recommended “Healing Rage” by Ruth King. I’m only a couple chapters into that, but it claims to be about processing THROUGH rage. Not only the current or situational rage, but FOO and ancestral rage that is passed down. If someone had talked to me about ancestral rage 2 years ago I’d have told them to take their chakra and crystal loving selves for a long walk off a short cliff. But damn, it really resonates. I know that my fucked up parts and patterns have negatively impacted my kids, esp DD. Anyhow, this new IC is having me take some hard looks at anger and I’m actually pretty excited about it, esp from a female lens.

TX: we didn’t do the race car this week She wants to switch it up to some EMDR. I’m game for anything. And yes, it was comforting to know that this shit is – literally – in my head!

That "marrying unfinished business" used to irk me (dunno why), but I am now coming around to thinking about it more. I was never fully vulnerable with and NEVER trusted any of my three prior serious, committed, live-in loves (and I was the one who ended each of those relationships). I worked hard after ending the 3d one, and it allowed me to be vulnerable with WH. Hell, it allowed me to marry him (something I did not want with any of the priors- and it infuriates me that he knew the hard work I put in just to trust someone enough to marry, and then shit all over it). But this new IC (whom I think is a good fit- she’s been excellent at validating AND challenging) has pointed out that FOO forms our expectations, and my bar was pretty low. Enter KISA (my 1st) WH and hello wedding vows! So in the context of post dday healing, this is something that needs to get “finished”. It’s one area where I may be fortunate to have a WH that’s not done the work to be “R material” in that it helps me to focus on what I want and need in a partner – wholly separate from who my WH is and w/o any concern over conforming my wants and needs to fit w/in my WH’s abilities.

I hope the MC thing works out. Her making a plan sounds like a good thing (when I last brought up a plan with our MC she looked at me like I had 3 heads – which added to my desire to wean off seeing her), but if it’s not the right fit, then it’s not the right fit (sigh – it’s really disheartening to see how many IC are so clueless about so much. I know they are required to do continuing education, but TBH, it seems like so many are basically just “calling it in” ).

I want to confront her and make her uncomfortable.
I will make myself some popcorn and a LARGE cocktail to watch this story unfold! But seriously, I’m sorry that hatred has been reborn. It’s so effed up. I want my WH’s girlfriend to apologize to me! I might as well be wishing for Santa and the tooth fairy to become real, but deep down a part of me really wants this. My most recent daydream is to cut my WH’s wedding ring into parts and send her a part of it. She deserves her piece of the end of our M, given that (vows to me or not), her lack of human decency and integrity played a role in its demise. But, she’s a POSOW that would never be impacted by one fucking word I said. She’s been a serial cheater her entire life (maybe karma is why her 3d husband left her for his AP). She didn’t care and she doesn’t care. Making her feel “uncomfortable” would be awe-fucking-some.

Ok. I gotta start attacking the massive pile of bills and paperwork that's covering my dining room table. Ugh, but hugs to all.... and I'm putting my cocktail in the fridge now for tonight's toast.

Could be "happy introduction of the Gregorian calendar day" (1582)
Happy Florence Eliza Allen Birthday (born 1876- a mathematician & women's suffrage activist)
In Memory of Catherine Booth (born 1829), English theologian & saint, co-founded The Salvation Army, died 10/4/1890

Personally, I'll toast to Janis Joplin, who died on 10/04/1970.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 4:47 PM, October 4th, 2019 (Friday)]

DaisyAnne posted 10/5/2019 07:58 AM

Good morning to my womenz!

First i have to give a big toast to gmc94 for her awesome reply to everyone. I bow to you!

TG, to be fair he did mention it before turning it on. I was iffy about it, but didn’t say anything. I’m trying to get over (or really just get through) some of the triggers so they don’t ruin my life. This isn’t one of them I can do yet, if ever. I am learning as I go. Lesson learned. Meanwhile, we had amazing sex last night. No porn involved

I just have to say how much I love this little group and so relieved that I have found it. I might back off being on other forums because I think it is causing me to focus almost too much on the infidelity at times. I will mostly just stick to this group at SI for awhile. You are all so helpful and just knowing I am not alone in how I am feeling is really a lifesaver right now. So thank you!

Hope you all have a fucking awesome Saturday!!

cocoplus5nuts posted 10/5/2019 08:51 AM

Why was even sexting OK in his mind? Why was receiving a bikini photo ok in his mind? That stuff alone is enough to cause major marital disruption for not shutting that shit down.

Well, yes, that is a big issue. How was any of that ok? The thing is that I don't know what went on before that face-to-face. If I have the timeline correct, she started talking to him about personal stuff, issues with her M, at the gym. She later gave him her email so that he could give her a recipe he was sharing with some other people at the gym. That was a group email, but it was her in. She started emailing him privately. It seems that the bikini pic may have been furtherance of another conversation about her H being jealous.

I don't believe that he didn't have at least an inkling that it was inappropriate. After that, she went straight to telling him that he was "stellar" and asking him how he could go without sex for so long. Even someone with half a brain would recognize that for what it was.

I think, at that point, he liked the attention and flirting. He thought it would stay there. I don't know how or when the actual sexting started. He deleted those texts and, conveniently, had his phone and laptop stolen right after I found out.

He may not be the brightest bulb, but even if it’s only got the wattage of a keychain light, it’s a bulb – that can illuminate shit…


GMC, you have hit on so much. Yes, the conflict avoidance was a big contributor to his cheating. He is getting better at that with me (which I don't like 🤪, but not in other situations. That is one reason I am pushing him to talk to the 15yo.

Wrt him feeling like an idiot, those conflicts aren't about his cheating. They are normal, every day, married life stuff, like what to do with the kids. The way it relates to his cheating is that I now see his behavior for what it really is, and it's stupid. So, that general feeling comes through in how I talk to him.

What he can do is tell me about his thought process. I suspect one of 2 things is causing h I'll m difficulty with that. Either he doesn't have any thought process behind his conclusion. He's just doing what has always been done. Or, he doesn't know how to explain his thought process because he was never exposed to anything like that. In his FOO, his dad would make a decision, tell everyone what it was, and it was done. There was no discussion. No one was allowed to question dad or disagree, not even his wife.

One thing he learned in IC was that his dad took all his power away as a child. When we got married, he transferred his power to me. So, he always just did what he was told. He didn't think about it.

His job is the same. He's a Marine. There are rules, regulations, and orders that you just follow. As an officer, he's in more of a position of giving orders, but he still has superiors. One interesting thing about that (which I think is probably mostly good) is that he has said he asks the sergeants their thoughts and opinions on things and follows them a lot. So, even though he's giving the final order, he is still following what someone else has said.

The role playing as his mom felt kinda creepy, but all I had to do was mirror back what he said. I didn't have to act like his mother. That was more for him to express how he felt about his mom. She asked him which one of his parents I was more like. She asked me the same about him during my private session with her. I think she was trying to get us to express what we appreciated about each other.

The 15yo having condoms is a good thing. He is being responsible. It's still shocking when you are first faced with it. I have always had ongoing talks about sex and relationships. We don't have The Talk. My fch doesn't talk about any of it, so it would be The Talk for him.

cocoplus5nuts posted 10/5/2019 08:53 AM

That shit with the location software does seem passive aggressive. I hat that shit! My fch used to be very passive aggressive. He's getting better.

DaisyAnne posted 10/5/2019 09:10 AM

Coco, yeah absolutely. He was always against any tracking device. Our best friends have the Life 360 for the whole family and he would tease the husband about it. I told him it doesn’t have to be forever. Only until I can totally trust him, however long it takes. He may not like it but he does understand.

Chaos posted 10/5/2019 12:27 PM

Here’s a devious thought. Make sure HE has access to YOUR location. Go to an adult store. Buy the biggest, baddest rechargeable vibrator you can find - bonus points for the packaging mentioning “now with longer battery life” and a big ass bottle of warming lube. Then park somewhere and read a book. Come home hours later with a big smile on your face and a swing in your step 😎

[This message edited by Chaos at 4:26 PM, October 5th (Saturday)]

cocoplus5nuts posted 10/5/2019 14:52 PM

LMFAO, Chaos!

Daisy, we have life360 for the whole family. My 15yp is the one who turns it off.

AmIAnIdiot15 posted 10/5/2019 15:15 PM

Coco - they are SO dumb. So dumb. My story is very similar. I read their entire relationship history, because my husband didn't realize that Snapchat doesn't delete text messages unless you tell it to.

At the very beginning he told her "I'm married, and that's not going to change, I love my wife." But then he told her that it was fun and exciting to flirt. And then they drank too much one night, and fooled around. And then it happened again, and they had sex. But I'm "lucky" I guess in that I also got to read him break things off with her after the second time. They were still spending time together though, so it would have happened again.

DaisyAnne posted 10/5/2019 15:33 PM

Chaos!! That totally made my day. My week. Maybe even my year!!

He does have my location as well.... hmmm.

cocoplus5nuts posted 10/5/2019 21:25 PM

This has got me thinking that I need to delve into my fch's thought process at the beginning of his A again, and probably before. I don't think I asked much about their in person conversations before the emails. I also don't think I asked if there were individual emails before the ones I saw.

I told him I want to talk to him about some things. Hopefully, we can find time tomorrow. It's so hard with all these kids around all the time.

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