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Feeling Stuck in Anger/Plain of Lethal Flatness Phase

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Thumos posted 2/24/2020 18:08 PM

Thank You Thumos!!!

I have never read a more accurate succinct statement regarding FOO issues and how I have felt for over 20 years. You have helped me.

I'm glad I could do it. It bothers some people that I have my own shit going on, still have a mess on my hands, and yet feel free to offer other people advice (especially in the JFO forums, where I'm really trying to prevent guys from making the same mistakes I did).

I think what they're missing is that it may make me more able to have some important insights.

survrus posted 2/24/2020 20:05 PM

Thumos,

The claim sex only once is really insulting, does she think you are stupid? I mean a complicated risky affair and only once.

Does your WW think you are recovered?

What have you done to drive OM out of town and ruin his reputation etc. You mention you see him often.

Thumos posted 2/25/2020 07:23 AM

What have you done to drive OM out of town and ruin his reputation etc. You mention you see him often.

Nothing. I mean who does that? I am not a vengeful person. Iíve had plenty of revenge fantasies, yes, but thereís a difference between fantasy and reality. I have no interest in ruining him somehow, as I wouldnít want to hurt his wife and children.

Butforthegrace posted 2/25/2020 09:18 AM

Nothing. I mean who does that? I am not a vengeful person. Iíve had plenty of revenge fantasies, yes, but thereís a difference between fantasy and reality. I have no interest in ruining him somehow, as I wouldnít want to hurt his wife and children.[/quote/]

Good answer. I agree 100%

Thumos posted 2/26/2020 07:23 AM

Update: I received a clean bill of health. Heart is 100 percent normal and healthy. Itís quite a scare having a doctor tell you have had a heart attack ó and I canít quite communicate the relief of being told ďno, you havenít and your heart is strong and healthy.Ē

I need to lose some weight (I would say 15 pounds) but I already knew this. Doc thinks CPAP is to blame and Iím working on getting that addressed (it takes a ridiculous amount of time to schedule a sleep specialist - they must be in very high demand).

I feel very much like Iíve been given a health Mulligan here. Iím back in the gym this week after 8 weeks of complete inactivity and months of spotty exercise.

Alpargata posted 2/26/2020 07:33 AM

Iíve been given a health Mulligan here.

Now that the hand is hot go for a wife mulligan as well.

Glad to hear you are physically healthy.

WalkingHome posted 2/26/2020 08:25 AM

You likely will have good momentum coming out of this health scare.


Something I have had to learn hard...when you have built up momentum, keep it rolling. It is much harder to build it again than it is to keep it moving.


This is the time to get things straight with your WW...as in lay down the law of the land on what you must have to move forward, if R is a choice, and if you are going to choose to R or not based on her actions/truth.


Tangible actions matter.

hikingout posted 2/26/2020 09:25 AM

Iím back in the gym this week after 8 weeks of complete inactivity and months of spotty exercise.

I am glad you are okay. I know going back to exercise is going to help you regain your mental clarity and some of those good brain chemicals. It never is helpful to me if I am already down and have to take a break from that for whatever reason.

I would in addition to working on your CPAP machine really think about whether you have experienced anxiety attack of some sort. The timing of all this seems very conspicuous to me. Make sure you get that part checked out too.

Thumos posted 2/26/2020 10:16 AM

think about whether you have experienced anxiety attack of some sort. The timing of all this seems very conspicuous to me. Make sure you get that part checked out too.

100 percent agree. I donít think the timing is accidental at all. I brought up anxiety with both primary and cardio several times. They know itís a contributing factor. That said the elevated BP is really being caused by the CPAP issue. Itís become more clear to me the machine isnít working as it should and it snuck up on me bc I was distracted - waking up with coughing fits in the middle of the night or a racing heart are telltale signs. If youíre getting choked out every night (and thatís what happens with sleep apnea) itís going to have a cumulative impact. That and anxiety combined pushed me over the edge.

And Iím not letting go of the momentum here.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:29 AM, February 26th (Wednesday)]

Thumos posted 2/26/2020 10:33 AM

Also we are going to Retrouvaille this weekend, something we planned and paid for awhile back. She took the initiative on signing us up for that ( just FYI. ) I think itís a perfect opportunity to get straight and clear and really assess her willingness to folo thru on the post nup. I also plan on discussing with her during this retreat weekend the idea of co parenting with the kids staying in the house and the two of us cycling in and out. Itís important to me that whatever happens, for the kids sake it needs to be amicable.

emergent8 posted 2/26/2020 11:21 AM

Update: I received a clean bill of health. Heart is 100 percent normal and healthy.

Really (really) good to hear, Thumos. Please take care of yourself.

Outoflove2020 posted 2/26/2020 16:15 PM

That's excellent news about your health, so happy for you.

Thumos posted 2/27/2020 10:30 AM

Quick note: my calcium CT scan turned up a lung nodule, likely benign so I'm not too worried about it. It's quite common. I'll be seeing a pulmonologist in any case about the CPAP and he can address it.

That said, I did a little research and turned up the fact that HPV can cause lung nodules. Again the risk here is low. But I did mention it to my wife and she said, "I'm sorry you are even having to worry about the lung module being caused by HPV. I'll make another appointment with my gynecologist ASAP"

My response to her was, "I have to say the more time goes by and the more I learn about STD's the more I feel lucky to have dodged a bullet ASFAIK -- And the more I still can't fathom the risk you took in exposing yourself and me to life threatening disease, given what you knew about (AP) and his personality and likely promiscuity. And the more I still can't fathom why you didn't go out and get tested the next day after you had sex with him, let alone once I knew you'd had unprotected sex. It confuses me and hurts me more than I can say."

Her response back was, "I agree with all of that and feel lucky as well. I am thankful I did not expose you to a disease and I understand how you feel. I'm sure I would feel the same way. I've learned a lot about STD's through this process that I didn't know before and I'm sorry you had to learn anything about them. I'm committed to you, our marriage, our family, and to living in a way that will never expose myself to STD's and the trauma associated with exposing someone you love to them. I am willing to have another STD test panel at any time in the future if you feel worried or insecure that I have exposed you to a disease."

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:19 PM, February 27th (Thursday)]

Buck posted 2/27/2020 11:31 AM

I'm glad to hear you're getting your health issues sorted out. That's awesome.

I also have wondered the same thing about my WW and her contempt for me during her A. It's a real mindfuck.

But the reason I'm posting is about your post nup. I urge you to speak to an attorney and get real advice. I am not an attorney. In my state, and in most states from what I was told by an attorney, the post nup needs to be in place for some period of time to be considered valid. 2 years was the timeframe I was given. Otherwise, it's likely to be thrown out by the judge. I just wanted to throw that out there if you're thinking of getting the post nup now and divorcing this summer. Also, given the circumstances, cheating, polygraphs, STD tests, health issues - you get the idea, it's super easy for someone to say one or both of you signed the document under duress.

I was more concerned about child custody versus "stuff" and post nups do nothing to sort out custody. I spoke to several lawyers and the advice I was given was to divorce but still live together instead of the post nup. You can both negotiate the terms of the divorce, including custody, and decide to remarry later if you're so inclined. Again, I'm no expert, just trying to offer some insight based upon my experience.

WalkingHome posted 2/27/2020 12:17 PM

To echo what Buck said, I have spoken with multiple legal experts on the topic of Post Numps...all said that it is hit or miss if you have to execute it in court.


It is not uncommon for judges to simply throw them out. It doesn't matter that it was signed, agreed to, or similar...judges can toss them as if they never existed.


The WS can claim duress, poverty at the time of execution that made her/him fear abandonment, DV, abuse...you name it.


Having looked into it, I don't think they are worth the paper they are printed on.


YMMV

KingRat posted 2/27/2020 12:30 PM

Post nups have to be voluntarily entered into. Any express or implied consequence for not signing the post nup will render it unenforceable.

Thumos posted 2/27/2020 13:27 PM

This is all really good advice I didnít know.

Given this, why is SI filled with advice about getting a post nup in the wake of infidelity? Almost all of them would be (are?) invalid by default because of the ďduressĒ of the infidelity itself (which seems ironic and weird, but we all know the law itself is ironic and weird all the time).

If this is true it would be easier and cleaner to just get a mediated divorce. Iím really more concerned about the child custody as well ó but a a 50/50 split is all Iím interested in. That said, Iím really loathe to have to pay her spousal support or alimony. If I can get her to be amicable, my thought has been that a post nup would solidify that for me just from an ethical fairness standpoint if she agreed to it. She seems open to it and has stated several times with witnesses that she would never seek alimony from me.

So would a mediation be better in that case?

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:38 PM, February 27th (Thursday)]

Thumos posted 2/27/2020 13:28 PM

Would it make any difference on the express or implied consequence if she was the one to initiate getting the post nup drawn up?

Butforthegrace posted 2/27/2020 13:41 PM

My understanding is that there is a very wide disparity among states on enforceability of post nuptial agreements. Very state specific.

As to your WW's response to the STD issue, that's a lose-lose conversation from her side of it. "Yes I did something really shitty and stupid and potentially deadly to you, behind your back." Once when I was about 17 I got drunk and drove the family car through our closed garage door. I had sort of that same conversation with my Dad several times.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 2:29 PM, February 27th (Thursday)]

Buck posted 2/27/2020 14:07 PM

Would it make any difference on the express or implied consequence if she was the one to initiate getting the post nup drawn up?

I asked the same question and was told it really wouldnít matter. If your wife claims she signed the document under the threat of divorce or some other duress, it will likely get thrown out. And bftg is right, post nup laws vary wildly by state. FWIW, Iím in Texas.

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