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Avoiding Relapse

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Zugzwang posted 9/6/2019 09:26 AM

"Nicing out" when the BS tries to earn you over the AP. Tries to not push any buttons so you don't leave them. When in reality you are the one that is supposed to do the earning and jumping through hoops. The betrayed is always better off without a cheater. Doesn't matter if the betrayed was the ugliest damn person in the world heart and soul. To cheat on someone you wouldn't leave still makes you out as just as bad as them. You need to become someone better. Not just for them but for you. Nicing out depends upon each individual. Could be the betrayed doing different things to prove they are the better choice than the AP. Could be them just walking on eggshells to not upset divorce possibilities. What ever it is, you can be damn sure you are taking advantage of it for you own benefit at the expense of their healthy happiness.

VioletElle posted 9/6/2019 12:19 PM

Yet, if yours outs you, then you will divorce

Look, if he actually felt the need to go to my work and make a scene or drag personal issues into a professional space, that would be someone I would have no interest in spending any more time with.

I wouldn't allow myself to remain in a marriage held together by guilt. I wouldn't be begging for forgiveness anymore. I would understand that he could never forgive me and that we would no longer be married.

Same goes for any attempt to involve or leverage the children in any way.

You can't coerce someone into having feelings with consequences and threats.

[This message edited by VioletElle at 12:20 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

VioletElle posted 9/6/2019 12:26 PM

It didnít work

Why do you imagine anything would have "worked"? Perhaps the feelings were not there anymore.

There is nothing wrong with being nice to your spouse. If it's attempted as a ploy toward keeping them tethered to you, it likely wouldn't be hard to recognize. Adveresly, if cruelty is tried with the same end, it may "work", but only as a trap if someone has nowhere else to go.

Being nice isn't a weakness in itself, but playing the "nice" game to get what you want certainly is.

HellFire posted 9/6/2019 12:32 PM

Yet you are the one who talks on the phone,and messages the OM while at work. You brought your personal life into a professional environment.

You have said,over and over, what you will not tolerate from your husband. Yet, if he wants to stay married,and not lose half of his time with his kids, he better just shut his mouth, shower you with romance, and take a seat.

It seems you have different rules on what is,and is not inappropriate when it comes to your husband. What is ok for you,is not ok for him. He better keep his side of the road clean, while your side is far from it.


It's shocking how you don't see how controlling and hypocritical you are.


Have you blocked OM yet?

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:33 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

Bigheart2018 posted 9/6/2019 13:05 PM

Violet,

I don't understand. With your attitude toward your husband and family and your love for your AP, maybe you should get a divorce and move on.

VioletElle posted 9/6/2019 13:44 PM

You have said,over and over, what you will not tolerate from your husband.

He hasn't done, imagined, threatened, shown any interest in.....etc. In any of the things I said I would not stay married through. Some of it is really quite insane and not worth anything.

This isn't a "you did this crazy thing so I get to do something crazy too." Both of us still have to want to stay married and there are things that would make me not want to be married. The first is no feeling of love or affection for each other. Acting psychotic is another.

And yes, saying, "you do X or I tell the kids you caused them suffering" when it would be just as easy to say, "Things are going to change but you still have two parents who love you." Is psychotic.

Same goes for hoping to rule by fear. There's no winning that.

VioletElle posted 9/6/2019 13:44 PM

You have said,over and over, what you will not tolerate from your husband.

He hasn't done, imagined, threatened, shown any interest in.....etc. In any of the things I said I would not stay married through. Some of it is really quite insane and not worth anything.

This isn't a "you did this crazy thing so I get to do something crazy too." Both of us still have to want to stay married and there are things that would make me not want to be married. The first is no feeling of love or affection for each other. Acting psychotic is another.

And yes, saying, "you do X or I tell the kids you caused them suffering" when it would be just as easy to say, "Things are going to change but you still have two parents who love you." Is psychotic.

Same goes for hoping to rule by fear. There's no winning that.

How is it controling? I haven't threatened him with anything. He still has the ability to decide the sort of person he is willing to stay married to. I haven't told him to do anything. I merely stated here that if he decided to take certain actions that I would not remain in a loveless marriage. There is nothing controling about that.

[This message edited by VioletElle at 1:48 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

gmc94 posted 9/6/2019 13:53 PM

Look, if he actually felt the need to go to my work and make a scene or drag personal issues into a professional space, that would be someone I would have no interest in spending any more time with.
I wouldn't allow myself to remain in a marriage held together by guilt. I wouldn't be begging for forgiveness anymore. I would understand that he could never forgive me and that we would no longer be married.
Same goes for any attempt to involve or leverage the children in any way.
This, and most of your prior posts REEK of contempt for your BH.

Maybe your BH will be fine with his rugsweeping and nice you, etc. Maybe your contempt stems from the fact that he is allowing himself to basically be your doormat - for now. What I find astounding is that you seem to express some concern with this (as you are simultaneously walking on said doormat), but are decidedly NOT ok with him standing up for himself in any way. One way a BS might stand up for himself is to expose the WS at the office when she is engaging in UNPROFESSIONAL conduct by talking to her AP while at work.
My suspicion is that your bravado stems from simple, overpowering, fear. Deep down, I'd bet you realize that he could do that (and more), and you stand to lose a hell of a lot more than your BS and your M. But rather than have compassion and empathy for the GIFT he is giving you by keeping his mouth shut, you come here and express your disrespect and contempt.

VE - there are a lot of folks here who have responded to you with some wisdom gained through EXPERIENCE. Many have been here for years - they are like the sherpas of infidelity -both WS & BS. Yet, post after post after post you pretty much say that you somehow know better. That those responding to you don't "understand" you or your M. Which is 100% your choice.

The thing is, you are trying to climb the Mt. fucking Everest of infidelity, and you are eschewing support from those who have walked this path before - successfully (who can describe what worked) and not so successfully (who can describe what didn't). No one needs a Ph.D. to recognize that arrogance on Mt. Everest is pretty much a foolproof recipe for disaster. Hell, the risk of failure here is pretty damn high even WITH the sherpas' wisdom that you seem to carelessly cast aside (kind of like what happened to your fidelity - right?)

So - aside from a place to vent, is there anything you hope to gain from SI?

ETA:

Some of it is really quite insane and not worth anything.
And now, you express your contempt for those who have posted here. SMH.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 1:57 PM, September 6th, 2019 (Friday)]

sleepylove posted 9/6/2019 14:02 PM

It didnít work
Why do you imagine anything would have "worked"? Perhaps the feelings were not there anymore.

There is nothing wrong with being nice to your spouse. If it's attempted as a ploy toward keeping them tethered to you, it likely wouldn't be hard to recognize. Adveresly, if cruelty is tried with the same end, it may "work", but only as a trap if someone has nowhere else to go.

Being nice isn't a weakness in itself, but playing the "nice" game to get what you want certainly is.

It didn't work because at the time my WW was unremorseful. She had her coming to Jesus moment weeks later and that shook her out of it. But it truly took her believing she was losing her family to do it.

Much the same will need to happen to you and your betrayed husband. The arrangement you are in now has 0% chance of yielding sustained and true happiness.
It will all come to a head for you both at some point. Either you will realize you really don't love him or he will realize that all the pain and manipulation that you levied and continue to pile on him is not worthwhile.
It's just a matter of time. You won't escape it.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 9/6/2019 16:24 PM

I am still left wondering, VioletElle, what are you willing to do to become a safe partner to your husband?

What does healing from infidelity look like to you? What does it mean to you?

What actions are you taking to make a change?

Trdd posted 9/6/2019 21:38 PM

Violetelle, you started this thread trying to avoid contact with your AP and trying to fight your thoughts about your AP. You had been failing at both. Since your first post in this thread, it seems like you have electronically blocked AP in several ways from communicating with you. You also told your BS about the contact. Is there anything else you have done to help yourself stay safe and away from the AP?

Is there anything else you are considering taking action on immenently? Did any idea from this thread resonate at all?

Justsomelady posted 9/7/2019 08:25 AM

What do you want your future to look like, how do you want to feel and what will bring you a sense of peace and like life is on track? Is it a life with your husband?

If so, consider the advice given here to distance your communication, mind and heart from AP. The living with limerence blog advises living a life full of PURPOSE and focusing on all the activiites and people that bring meaning to life. When I live in service to my family and community I live my values, feel purposeful, our connections strengthen, intimacy with my spouse improves, and the limerent feelings start to fade to the background.

If not, start thinking through how to forge ahead with honesty and talk it over with your spouse. I know divorced couples who get along very well and coparent and find their groove, but they have all been very above board and fair with where exes.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 8:31 AM, September 7th (Saturday)]

VioletElle posted 9/7/2019 12:57 PM

What does healing from infidelity look like to you? What does it†mean†to you
?


Really, I just want to find a way for him to feel better about himself. I'm not as hard to please as some might think and I don't have a timeline. In many ways he's getting there, and he doesn't seem depressed. He's been to a doctor as well and he saw no need to treat him for depression.

I certainly don't expect a conflict free time ahead or to get my way in everything. I want to do a better job of not being selfish and that isn't easy for me, I've been that way my entire life. I'm used to people doing things for me and that didn't start on my wedding day. Im not sure how to change that except one day at a time.

I know we aren't going to drag this out into a public fight and he's not going to start treating me with contempt. I'll never be proud of all this, but we are going to have to put it behind us or there is no forward.

Justsomelady posted 9/7/2019 15:36 PM

Really, I just want to find a way for him to feel better about himself
.... I want to do a better job of not being selfish and that isn't easy for me, I've been that way my entire life. I'm used to people doing things for me and that didn't start on my wedding day. Im not sure how to change that except one day at a time.

Sounds like you have a clear and noble objective, and self awareness. All of this sounds like a great place to start.

It is really hard to change, I can be selfish too. Personally, I think that lately focusing so much outside myself and concentrating on my husband and child have made me so much happier. There is a feeling of freedom when you let go of self focus.

Take care to still detach from the AP and block him at work, and wherever you can.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 9/7/2019 16:55 PM

I want to do a better job of not being selfish and that isn't easy for me, I've been that way my entire life. I'm used to people doing things for me and that didn't start on my wedding day.

This is just a starting point. You will need to actively work on this. Dig deep and find out where the selfishness comes from, do research and read books to learn new coping strategies. Be an active participant in bettering yourself. Peel back some layers to find out who you are.

we are going to have to put it behind us or there is no forward.

It will be difficult to put it behind you while you still keep having feelings for your AP. You canít move forward until you work on you. Itís nice that you want your BH to feel better, however until you are better things will continue along the same cycle.

Doing the work does not have to entail public fights or contempt, but a willingness to accept responsibility, humility, and most of all a great deal of vulnerability.

Are you willing to look inside yourself, dig deep and break down your walls?

Wool94 posted 9/8/2019 06:11 AM

we are going to have to put it behind us or there is no forward.

Are you willing to wait 2 to 5 years? Right now, moving forward means taking 1 step forward some days and taking 2 or more steps back on others.

Are your ready for the anger stage to set in?

What boundaries have you set in place?

What consequences are there if the AP tries to contact you again?

prissy4lyfe posted 9/8/2019 08:51 AM

You should read the thread on infidelity is abuse.

HellFire posted 9/8/2019 09:16 AM

While frustrating, this thread serves a purpose. So, for all the BS's out there, who are doing the pick me dance, who believe they can nice their WS back, who give their WS no consequences, THIS is what you will have to look forward to. A WS who still loves and misses their AP. A WS who puts limits on your pain. A WS who has no problem doing horrible,abusive things to you and your kids, but will divorce you, if you tell anyone the truth. A WS who has extremely high standards for you, while they're crawling on their belly in the mud. A marriage filled with fear. A WS who will break NC. A WS who disrespects you, but demands respect.

OP has stated, many times, her husband has not said any of the things 99% of betrayed spouse's say. He has not imposed consequences. She fails to believe it's because he doesn't feel safe in doing so. She has made it clear on here, that she will not accept any consequences(other than her feeling bad), and she expects him to woo her. Surely her husband knows this as well,so he stuffs his feelings. I don't believe he will get angry. He's not allowed. I mean, he can, but the cost is too high for him.

Eventually, perhaps once the kids are grown, he will get tired of dancing. Tired of the disrespect. Tired of being the safe option.

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:17 AM, September 8th (Sunday)]

gmc94 posted 9/8/2019 09:26 AM

A WS who disrespects you, but demands respect
This is the truly sad part of this thread - the seemingly willful ignorance on this point.

Zugzwang posted 9/8/2019 14:39 PM

marriage held together by guilt. feelings with consequences and threats.
In addition I don't see those actions as him making a scene or any of this quoted. I see it as a cruel thing you did brought to light so that there is transparency and your false self being exposed so that he feels safer knowing you can't secretly continue to have affairs through work with anyone.

Maybe your BH will be fine with his rugsweeping and nice you, etc. Maybe your contempt stems from the fact that he is allowing himself to basically be your doormat - for now. What I find astounding is that you seem to express some concern with this (as you are simultaneously walking on said doormat), but are decidedly NOT ok with him standing up for himself in any way. One way a BS might stand up for himself is to expose the WS at the office when she is engaging in UNPROFESSIONAL conduct by talking to her AP while at work.
My suspicion is that your bravado stems from simple, overpowering, fear. Deep down, I'd bet you realize that he could do that (and more), and you stand to lose a hell of a lot more than your BS and your M. But rather than have compassion and empathy for the GIFT he is giving you by keeping his mouth shut, you come here and express your disrespect and contempt.
Agree

I merely stated here that if he decided to take certain actions that I would not remain in a loveless marriage.
News flash. It is loveless because of you. You have no love for him. You don't love him. You don't respect him. You are still in the marriage. You just refuse to stay if he disrespects you. Even now. After what you did and continue to do. You have zero empathy and compassion as to why he might disrespect you after you have been so cruel to him and continue to be. You can dish disrespect and the tragic thing is that you refuse to accept any towards yourself. It is controlling because you know he is caught and is dependent right now and you are taking advantage of it because you don't care if he leaves since you have the upper hand.

I wouldn't be begging for forgiveness anymore.

I am bowing out after that. My wife absolutely was worth "begging for forgiveness" over and over again for years. Since, you don't feel the same for your husband I can't help you. My wife was worth my pride. Any human being I hurt is worth my pride.

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