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Avoiding Relapse

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Jorge posted 8/3/2019 23:58 PM

I'm experiencing this too. We've been having sex and I'm trying to enjoy it, but mostly I'm just waiting for it to be over.

Above is your quote on the loss of attraction post from a few weeks back. If you're no longer attracted to him, "just waiting for it to be over" sexually and remain contemplative in reuniting with your AP whose pursuit of you sexually, hasn't even been denounced, why string this along? Just divorce.

It's the least you can do versus further humiliating your husband in not only desiring another man, but possibly restarting a sexual relationship with him also, despite the pain inflicted upon your husband. If you do not desire your husband, love him enough to not hurt him. At least. Right?

Question though. Was the loss of attraction and sexual disinterest with your husband always there or coincide with AP being in your life? AP's have a way of causing WS to redefine everything ever done with the spouse.

This may be going on here. Just a thought. Additionally, the energy and passion offered by your AP can't be matched by your husband due to the newness of relationship with AP and how he makes you feel.

This wanes eventually, and once the excitement is gone, you might find there being not much of a difference. Evaluate the cost and benefit here.

Coreofsteel posted 8/4/2019 02:52 AM

You're not reconciliation material currently. You're not a safe spouse at the moment. I don't know what else to say.

AntiHero posted 8/4/2019 04:23 AM

Iím curious what you were hoping to get by starting this thread. Not being judgmental, but sincerely wondering. Iíve skimmed through some of your posts and I can relate to many of the things youíve said...back when I was still ignoring my responsibility in having caused the greatest devastation of all time. Itís hard to get a grasp on your posts. The emotions seem so volatile. But my general sense is that you are still looking for someone/thing to blame other than yourself. I remember when I finally realized how broken I was, and I went to BH and shared this news with him, as if he was suddenly going to forgive me and stop hurting because I was mentally ill. But then I realized that I was even trying to blame Mental Illness for the affair. Of course you KNOW all this stuff is wrong, but it really sounds like you donít FEEL it is. Itís easy to say all the right things, but believing and practicing them is where the real work happens.

If there were some things that were said in your previous threads that I missed, I apologize for being a little late to your game, but it does sound like you donít love your husband any more yet youíre too ashamed to admit it, especially after having had an affair. Maybe you love him as the father of your kids, but nothing more. That in of itself is ok, but if thatís the case, then I will be the 436th person to say, please just do him one last right and just file. It may even release you of your agony and open your eyes up to yourself a bit more. I wish you well and hope you eventually find your way out of your own cycle.

Pippin posted 8/4/2019 06:20 AM

Violetelle, I'm not going to judge or excoriate you, even though I know that what you are doing is extremely painful to your husband, has consequences you don't yet understand, and in the long run you are likely to regret it. I have BTDT and could have written something close to what you wrote at various points, so I might be able to help.

My husband found a fake NC note (it said don't contact me because if you did I know I would want to engage sexually ). I continued to interact with the AP, with on and off NC periods, for four months and then broke NC a couple of times (at that point the AP was not responding). I didn't make a firm commitment to stop betraying him until nine months after my husband knew I was having an affair. Nine months of betrayal when he knew something was happening, and a few weeks before that when he didn't know.

I think that I was able to engage in that behavior, like you are, because I was still getting something I thought I needed and couldn't get another way from the interactions with the AP, I contorted my thinking into imagining there would not be consequences to my marriage or children or everyday life, and I ignored and minimized my husband's pain and bewilderment. I think I also wanted evidence that I was hurting my husband because I resented him and what I decided was his reluctance to show me how much I mattered to him. I was probably angry with him in a toddler-like way for knowing what was happening and not fixing it for me. You have said that your husband blames himself for the affair and mine did that too, as well as trying to minimize what he shared with me in order to protect me from his own upset. I told him to try to mimic the AP and have a positive approach to our marriage so he tried to convey that instead of his hurt.

The question I have is: what do you want to do? Do you want to divorce your husband and have no-relationship non-adulterous sex with the AP and/or others? Do you want to stop the feelings for the AP and stop betraying your husband, and work on gaining respect and love for him? Do you want to have an affair on the side while married, ignoring reality for as long as you can until it inevitably comes crashing in and decides your fate for you (your children find out, your husband finally divorces you, etc)? I think you have to be clear about what you want and then pursue that path like you've never pursued anything before, to bring some kind of resolution. I hope it's not the third option. I hope for your husband's sake it's not the first option because he seems to want to stay married to you and he deserves a wife who loves him, respects him, and doesn't betray him. If it's the second we can help but it take daily work and you have to be clear with yourself that's what you want, so when it gets difficult you can put your "wise adult" in the drivers seat and find some other way to address your feelings.

[This message edited by Pippin at 11:52 AM, August 4th (Sunday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 8/4/2019 10:08 AM

Pippin's questions are excellent.

Wayward behavior is selfish. It's grounded in the fantasy that we should be able to have what we want without consequence to ourselves. We don't want to give up the stable, loving relationship, the comfortable home life, the public respect -- we just want a little extra fun and validation, privately, "just for me." That's why the pick-me dance never works out well for the BS. If they are willing to play along on any level, we convince ourselves that fantasy can be reality. They forgave us once, and we returned to some semblance of normalcy, so now it's time for another dopamine hit. Acknowledging their pain will make it impossible to take the hit, so we just don't look.

The only honest thing is to read Pippin's options and choose the one you want. There isn't a fourth option of getting away with everything without consequence. Even her options leave destruction in their wake, but at least it's honest destruction, an open admission of your true priorities. Do him the solid of examining and confessing it, because you're already back in the affair.

landclark posted 8/4/2019 10:15 AM

You should tell your BS immediately, show everything that was said, and get ready for the fallout. You've broken a major trust. This would honestly be a complete dealbreaker for me. NC is paramount to R.

As Chaos said, you're cheating again.

You really need to think about why you're with your BH if the OP is this important to you. More important than your BH. Maybe you need to do your BH a favor and let him move on from you. Show for once that you love him more than you love yourself.

[This message edited by landclark at 12:49 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]

ChanceAtLife35 posted 8/4/2019 11:53 AM

Yikes, you have reignited and restarted your A. This is a major setback and you need to go sit with yourself and dig deep into the thoughts and feelings of what you got you here. The fact that you haven't said Y or N to sex with the AP is a huge red flag. You need to tell your BS immediately what's going on and reinitiate NC. I have been here before and the reasons i did it was because i wasn't actually doing the work, i was stuck in shame, denial, and i was angry at the AP and wanted them to feel my anger and pain. I also felt they cared which is what i wanted because i felt no one did.

Are you in IC, get all over the healing library, read everything that can help you get out of this. Otherwise, you need to not think you are in recovery whatsoever. You can't repair anything until you repair and heal yourself. You titled this avoiding relapse, you already RELAPSED.

[This message edited by ChanceAtLife35 at 11:54 AM, August 4th (Sunday)]

Hutch posted 8/4/2019 12:05 PM

Stop! I can say this without a doubt. Your AP knows he has access to you and knows how to manipulate you, but youíre allowing it!. Trust me. As a WW, I know the pull the AP can have; saying the right things, making you feel wanted, mind-fíing you. It is just that. A great big mind f-ck! And we as WWís are to blame because we allowed ourselves into the situation when we have no right to. Until you awknowledge your part, youíll continue to repeat these actions.

If you are really wanting reconciliation, walk away. Have NC, block your APís number and delete it, block email. Get your head on straight.

Always work on you first! Get into IC and work on you but I can tell you as a new WW who is learning and processing, the AP will manipulate and if you are not following NC, youíll fall back into the rabbit hole.

I guess a tougher question is, are you truly wanting reconciliation?

[This message edited by Hutch at 12:17 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]

AntiHero posted 8/4/2019 12:26 PM

Pippin, thanks for writing that great post. I also really wanted VioletElle to know that there are many of us who know just how sheís feeling. I was thinking more about the time when I was experiencing similar emotions and now that I look back on it, the two general feelings I had were resentment and self-loathing, which are are pretty much the same thing. I couldnít pull myself out of the pity party I threw for myself.

But the most significant progress I made was when I stopped confusing self-loathing for remorse. When it was still resentment and self-hate, it was so easy to justify my behavior and want to reach back out to AP. I used him to gain the opposite of those two feelings. And because BH was willing to reconcile, I had suffered no consequences (at that time, in my mind) other than whatever penalties I gave myself. For me, I felt more removed from remorse because it was finally looking outward. It was almost like looking at ourselves from the outside, being completely horrified at what this WW has done and then fully owning those behaviors. There was way more compassion all around.

The questions you ask about what it is that a WS who continues to be wayward really wants are great. The one thing I would add is for VioletElle to be totally honest with herself, even if she has to hide in a dark closet to do it (yes, Iíve actually done that) and not create best case scenarios out of her answers. (I remember really believing at one point that I wanted a divorce, but that meant that BH would stay for dinner when he dropped the kids off.) I do think itís possible for best-case scenarios to come to fruition, but until youíre willing to face the worst possible ones, you canít get there. Really envision what it will look like: the real shame you will experience, imagining judgment way worse than anything said here by people you love, imagining how your kids will feel when you bring AP into their lives and they realize what you did and what youíre role modeling, imagining yourself repeating the same patterns in your next relationship. All of these things are happening anyway, but the only way to escape them is with complete honesty, especially with yourself.

anoldlion posted 8/4/2019 19:49 PM

No stop sign so I guess I can say this. If not the mods will delete it.

Here is my very best advice and I mean it sincerely. Start getting your affairs together and begin planning what you will do when the divorce happens. In your heart you already know your husband is going to find out and probably what his reaction will be when he does. Marriage is like Texas Holdem. At this point in the game you are either all in or you fold your hand. If you keep betting eventually the game is over and you have to show your hand anyway. By being in contact with your AP you just had the River card turned over and I doubt you are even holding a pair of duces. Not the kind of hand you can win with. I do wish you well.

Zugzwang posted 8/5/2019 14:27 PM

That's why the pick-me dance never works out well for the BS.

That dance can also send a clear message to the wayward that they are the victim and it was indeed the betrayed spouses fault the wayward "had" to cheat in order to be happy. As if growing up and making healthy choices like getting out of abusive relationships and loving yourself enough to demand respect weren't an option.

Zugzwang posted 8/5/2019 14:30 PM

Your AP knows he has access to you and knows how to manipulate you

You can't be manipulated if you were open to being someone elses. There is no manipulation here. She is married and she is a cheater. The only manipulation here is what is being done to the BS.

saying the right things, making you feel wanted, mind-fíing you.
Both parties do this. The wayward wives/husbands and the APs. They both say and do shit they later claim to not mean. Enough with the manipulations, playing, and victimhood.

[This message edited by Zugzwang at 2:32 PM, August 5th (Monday)]

ItsWorthIt posted 8/5/2019 20:05 PM

VioletElle

Let me start by saying I am a WP/WS.

It's time for you to be an honest honorable human being. Make up your mind. Stop stringing him along. Choose him or choose another life.

If you choose then make it your life's mission to create a new relationship with your BS, a wonderful strong loving relationship.

It will be very very hard work, but it is well worth it. Get help with this. Do whatever it takes.

If this is your choice, there are other posts in this and other forums about what I takes. I have a post here in Wayward (topic Reconciliation - worth the work) talking about my what my and my BH's MUSTs and experiences were.

If it is not your choice to stay with your BS, then stop the deceit and give your BS the respect to not keep him in the dark and to prevent further horrible damage to him.

jb3199 posted 8/6/2019 06:12 AM

Original post around noontime Saturday.

10 responses within the first couple of hours.

Sunday noon....

Monday noon....

Tuesday morning....

If you want help, then engage. The work can't be done for you.

TimSC posted 8/6/2019 12:53 PM

I fear she has made a bad choice that will put the final nail in the coffin she has placed her marriage in.

Pippin posted 8/7/2019 16:21 PM

If I remember correctly, when VioletElle first started posting, she replied quickly and defensively and her thread went every which way.

It may be that she is learning to post something, read and take in the responses, and consider them without responding defensively.

That's something I've learned to do and still working on. If I know I don't have something useful to say, or if I'm chewing something over, I might not respond, even if it's a thread I started. Sometimes I say thanks for the input, I'm thinking about it, but often I just assume people know that there may not be a direct response. And although I like to hear people's thoughts on what I've offered (esp if they are positive!) I've come to not expect it. Learning to use forums wisely is yet another thing to learn in the middle of a very difficult period.

I understand people who want nothing to do with waywards. And I understand people who think - you showed up here, we told you what to do, WTF is wrong with you just DO IT. I guess one positive that comes from me being such a mess for so long is that I'm hopeful that just about anyone can make positive change, despite whatever they have done in the recent or distant past.

VioletElle if you are still reading, I hope this thread helped. SI is always here . . .

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 8/7/2019 18:42 PM

It may be that she is learning to post something, read and take in the responses, and consider them without responding defensively.

Unfortunately she has not even logged in since the original post.

Pippin posted 8/8/2019 14:09 PM

Sometimes when I felt particularly defensive I would read threads without logging in, to avoid the hair trigger response. Maybe she's doing that, maybe not. I expect she'll be back, I expect she'll read this thread when she's ready, and I hope she continues to ask for help.

DaddyDom posted 8/8/2019 18:24 PM

I guess one positive that comes from me being such a mess for so long is that I'm hopeful that just about anyone can make positive change, despite whatever they have done in the recent or distant past.

I'm with you on this.

Violetelle, I won't add to the 2x4's as you have plenty here already.

Here is something positive. You came to SI and admitted where you are at and what's going on. You KNEW you would get thrown under the bus for it, but you did it anyway. This is progress. You may not have yet found the strength to let go of the AP, but you've found the courage to seek out help, and that alone is worthy of mentioning.

Please remember, this is about you, about who you are as a person. You are worthy of being treated better than the way the AP is treating you. And you are worthy of treating yourself better than you do. Every time you make the decision to do the wrong thing, you devalue yourself. If you can't value yourself, then it becomes easy to allow the AP to treat you as badly as you treat yourself. And to treat others that way as well.

Not sure if you are seeing an IC or not, but if you can, please do, and have them help you explore why you allow this to continue.

If you are anything like me, then sometimes the need for soothing and comfort can be absolutely overwhelming. Your spouse can no longer supply that for you, so you have three options:

1) Learn to soothe yourself, by yourself
2) Find new, healthy outlets for attention, such as church, meetup groups, self-help groups, and so on.
3) Continue to destroy your own life and the lives of those around you

It is time for you to have an affair with yourself. Go tell yourself you are wonderful. Spend lots of time with yourself. Do nice things for yourself, just because. Encourage yourself to do things you'd be proud of. Sacrifice your own unhealthy needs so that you can have healthy influenes in your life.

SorrowfulMoon posted 8/8/2019 19:29 PM

I'm sorry to say that your thinking has been wayward from day 1 of your very first post. Regrettably nothing has changed.

Have some mercy on your husband and let him go.

I'd like to wish you good luck but I am not a hypocrite.

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