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Excuse my rant for a moment

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JSS1227 posted 7/2/2019 15:08 PM

It irritates the hell out of me if I have a trigger, or if Iím flooding, or I just bring up a current concern that WHís A has created, and he looks at me sadly, and without addressing anything I just said, says something like ďIíd like to try to have a good trip with you this weekĒ or ďIíd like to have a good evening with you tonightĒ . To me, thatís him saying ďwe canít have a good time/trip/evening because youíre talking about my AĒ. To me, it sounds like heís saying if I have a trigger or express a concern, or am in pain over his actions, and we have a bad day or canít enjoy a trip, etc, that itís because of how Iím feeling and because Iím talking about the A, when in reality, the reason we canít enjoy those things sometimes is because he CHOSE to cheat on me and fuck an ugly whore all over town for months. Because he chose to destroy what we both agree was a very good and happy marriage prior to his adultery. Because he told another woman how much he loved her and everything about her, while also claiming to love me and to be in a happy marriage with me. We canít enjoy those things because HIS selfish actions and betrayal has caused me PTSD.

To be clear, itís not like I insist on talking about the A 24/7 (even though the pain and anxiety is certainly there 24/7), and when I do bring it up, WH does comfort me, talks to me, holds me, discusses things with me a lot of the time. He never brings up anything specific himself, but several times a day he will ask me how Iím doing or if he can do anything for me. So itís not like he does this all the time, but he has said this several times in the last 6 months since DDay, and it certainly makes me doubt his remorse, makes things worse for me, and makes it so I most certainly CANNOT ďhave a nice trip/evening/whateverĒ when he says this to me. WH wanted to be able to have a ďnice tripĒ with me today? Well, WH, I wanted to be able have a nice marriage with you 😢 one in which I was not cheated on , and forced to work unbelievably hard to recover from something you CHOSE to do to me.

Thanks for listening SIíers.

cocoplus5nuts posted 7/2/2019 16:00 PM

That's called rugsweeping. It is infuriating. He is, essentially, dismissing your feelings. Not remorseful.

The1stWife posted 7/2/2019 18:27 PM

Well, WH, I wanted to be able have a nice marriage with you 😢 one in which I was not cheated on , and forced to work unbelievably hard to recover from something you CHOSE to do to me.

Best line - great point.

crazyblindsided posted 7/2/2019 18:45 PM

(((JSS1227))) check out the podcasts on this thread:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=617809

It sums up perfectly the trauma a BS experiences post D-Day.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 6:45 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]

sassylee posted 7/2/2019 23:00 PM

What do you say when he says that? Do you let him know how dismissive you find his statement?

JSS1227 posted 7/3/2019 09:02 AM

Thanks for the replies and the links; I listened to the podcasts last night while in the car for our trip...wow. Such a great description of the trauma we experience as a BS. WH is not a SA like it describes in the podcasts, but I feel like it describes the trauma any BS goes through, regardless of the type of A/betrayal.

Sassylee, the first time he said that was maybe a month or so after DDay, so I responded with a AYFKM?? And then explained to him that if we couldnít enjoy something, itís because he demolished our marriage. Weíve talked about it a few times, and he doesnít do it often, but it really bothers me when he says things like that. I responded pretty much the same way yesterday, and he said heís not blaming me, he understands itís because of him and his actions, but that heís still allowed to want for us to just be able to enjoy things sometimes, and to be disappointed (in himself) when we canít. Which may have been a little helpful to me, if he hadnít have said it in such a harsh, non-empathetic tone.

Cooley2here posted 7/3/2019 09:10 AM

I read between here and (no soliciting). She says people who cheat, and have no empathy, see us as appliances. In the overall scheme of things we are no more important to them than a washing machine. Someone who lacks empathy actually cannot feel what you feel because you are a thing to them. That means you are not a hurting, feeling person. You are a thing. I donít know if this is the case in your life but when someone cannot have empathy for the pain theyíve inflicted they really are not marriage material.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:27 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]

nekonamida posted 7/3/2019 18:10 PM

I responded pretty much the same way yesterday, and he said heís not blaming me, he understands itís because of him and his actions, but that heís still allowed to want for us to just be able to enjoy things sometimes, and to be disappointed (in himself) when we canít.

I think that it would be good for you to set a boundary on this. It's clearly a trigger and while he isn't wrong to feel this way, it's not helpful at all for him to vocalize it. Could you maybe tell him it hurts and triggers you to hear and explain a little more how pressured you feel to act okay when you're not whenever he says it?

The kicker is that you probably would have a good time at these events IF HE DIDN'T REMIND YOU. His comment isn't helping create the outcome that he says he wants and is in fact giving you reasons to ruminate and be upset.

If you explain all of this and set this reasonable boundary, it will tell you a lot about where he is in regards to remorse. If he gets upset and pushes back on this - an overreaction given how little he does it - then you will know he had an ulterior motive when saying it like you think he might. If he respects it and keeps the boundary, then you can chalk this one up to a minor setback but a win for communication in R.

kickedintheknads posted 7/4/2019 09:28 AM

When he starts out with "I'd Like to" I would remind him (or her) we are past being concerned with what He would like. I had to remind my WW of this when she said that to me one day. "I'd like to get through one day without you reminding me of the affair". To which I replied "I'd like to get through at least one day of walking into my house and not being triggered with the knowledge of my wife fucking some guy in my bed". Yeah, I'd really like that. Sorry sweetheart, but YOU did this. There won't be any rugsweeping this shit. Own it.

sisoon posted 7/4/2019 10:41 AM

I suggest asking your H to reword these comments or asking him why he said that.

For example, maybe what he's thinking is something like, 'I'm afraid I've made it so we'll never have a good moment again,' and what comes out of his mouth is 'I'd like to try to....'

I'm not saying that's what is going on with him. I'm saying that he can ID his feeling and the thoughts generated by the feeling and share that with you.

I think your AYFKM response is great. But something is going on with your H that makes him say these stupid things, and asking him to say clearly what he means may help.

Maybe 'Why did you say that?' will work.

JSS1227 posted 7/5/2019 11:10 AM

Could you maybe tell him it hurts and triggers you to hear and explain a little more how pressured you feel to act okay when you're not whenever he says it

I have explained this to him. He still does it. Like I said before, itís not often, but he still does it.

Kickedintheknads I completely agree. Theyíd like to go a day without being reminded of their actions? So would I. But the reminders are everywhere.

Sisoon, I have discussed it with him further, and yesterday we got into an argument because I got triggered, and when I told him how I was feeling, he stormed off. Yep, didnít say a word, didnít comfort, didnít apologize..stormed off. Then later, I told him how unhelpful and unremorseful that was, and he got angry and yelled at me, and basically told me that anytime I get triggered and talk about the A, that he feels Iím ďshaming himĒ and he gets frustrated because he ďalready feels bad enough about himselfĒ. To be clear, I was not shaming him, or even talking to him in an accusatory tone..I was tearful and told him that I was hurting over something he said about his adultery co conspirator when I found out about the A. But to him, me even bringing it up is ďshaming himĒ.

He still canít see past his own shame long enough to even get to my pain. Almost 7 months later.

cocoplus5nuts posted 7/5/2019 18:55 PM

What is he doing to address his shame? I'm getting the idea that maybe he acted regretful for a little while thinking you would eventually rugsweep and he wouldn't have to actually face anything he did. He still cares more about himself than he does you. You are correct that that is not remorseful.

What are you doing for yourself instead of trying to fix your M?

JSS1227 posted 7/6/2019 12:10 PM

Cocoplus5nuts, heís been in IC since DDay, and just switched ICís because the first one was completely ineffective, didnít challenge him on anything. Our MC was great, and challenged him to own his shit (she has seen him before in IC a few years ago, so she was already aware of his deep rooted shame that was already present prior to the A, and his FOO issues), but I donít want him to use her as IC because I want her as our MC. So hopefully his new counselor will be more effective and challenging for him. He has read HTHYSHFYA, NJF, some things from the healing library, watched AR videos on YouTube, etc. You are correct in saying he still cares more about himself and protecting himself from his own shame rather than focusing on my feelings/pain and healing in those moments that I described before. Iíd say heís like that maybe 25% of the time. The rest of the time, he shows what looks like remorse. This week has been particularly bad though, like the percentages flipped, where he was a total ass 75% of the time. But, we were vacationing with his family, which always put him in what I call Asshole mode, even before the A. Another thing heís been working on in IC, dealing with those FOO issues, and his low self worth, defensiveness, anger, need for external validation, etc that are a result of all of the abuse as a child and adult from his NPD father. There was the conversation I posted about on the 4th, then we sat down and talked yesterday and he broke down in tears, saying he knows he still has a long way to go, still needs a lot of help healing from his FOO trauma so that he can be a safe spouse for me, etc. So he has moments of both, Iím just getting to the point that Iíve had enough, and some days Iím ready to file for D (again, and actually go through with it this time). Yesterday I told him his head is still up his ass and he canít see past his own shit. He admitted that at times, this is true. Being around his abusive father this week threw him right back into Asshole mode.

As far as my own healing, I did the 180 pretty quickly after DDay, without even knowing thatís what it was. Iíve been in IC since DDay; we started MC almost 3 months later. I read all the recommended books, although I told my IC just how awful I thought ďAfter the AffairĒ is🙄 and recommended that he NOT have any other BS he sees read it...I thought it put blame for the A on the marriage and even the BS at times. I do things for myself, do a lot with my kids, go out with friends without him, although sometimes I get into little funks where I just donít feel I can socialize, and I isolate myself. It usually doesnít last though. I also threw him out of the house for a few weeks in January, about a week in February, and then a couple weeks in April. I make it clear we will not be rugsweeping. He can do the work, or he can get hell out. Originally I was thinking Iíd give it 6 months and then make a decision regarding R or D, but itís been a little over 6 months and Iím still in limbo. Sometimes I feel he is making great progress, and other times, I feel it is hopeless, Iím tired of it all, and just want to be done.

Kb82 posted 7/7/2019 09:53 AM

My husband does this to me and has been for years. Everytime I've had an issue with him he says that instead of addressing the issue. "Can we just have a nice weekend together?" "I'd like to have a nice night with you but you want to argue and cause problems". For awhile I sort of believed it. Maybe I should just let stuff go?

After DD in March, I have realized he has been gaslighting me and rug sweeping his wrong doings. He makes it my fault we aren't having a good weekend, not HIS for betraying our marriage. Like I'm just an unhappy person or something for trying to discuss and resolve issues. He just doesn't want to take responsibility. After reading up on typical cheater behavior, I have also realized I'm not alone.

The way you feel is normal. Discussing it as much as you need to to rebuild trust and feel better is part of healing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you for feeling that way. Hugs and prayers to you.

JSS1227 posted 7/7/2019 13:32 PM

Thank you Kb82, and Iím sorry your WH puts you through the same thing. To me, it appears to be more selfish behavior, and Iíve made it clear to WH that if he canít change his entire fíed up wayward thinking pattern, we are done.

cancuncrushed posted 7/7/2019 16:56 PM

Well....he caused it all.....now hes disappointed in your reactions...that are all very normal...

HE doesn't get to control your reactions...they are real...

Ignore him...hes still contributing to your pain...he still doesn't get it...he wants to be comfortable in this destroyed world.

LukesDiner posted 7/7/2019 23:20 PM

I just wanted to say that I'm glad you decided to post your "rant." You summed up a lot of things that I have been feeling but didn't quite have the words to say. I hope you were able to find a little bit of relief in posting this, but I want you to know that your words provided a little peace for me

JSS1227 posted 7/8/2019 08:01 AM

LukesDiner, Iím glad my venting was helpful to someone besides myself. Sometimes it just helps to get it out, and it helps even more to hear youíre not crazy for feeling this way.

WH is back to appearing remorseful for now. Over the last few days heís been attentive, asking several times a day how Iím feeling, if he can do anything for me, etc. Last night we were sitting on the couch watching a show, and when It was revealed that yet another character was having an A, he squeezed me tight, kissed my head, and told me how sorry he is for everything, and that he appreciates me even being there. Wouldnít it be nice if we could just see into our WSís heads to see if they actually mean any of it??

LukesDiner posted 7/8/2019 09:52 AM

WH is back to appearing remorseful for now. Over the last few days heís been attentive, asking several times a day how Iím feeling,

When he is asking you about your feelings, does he listen to what you are sharing? I've noticed that sometimes WS will ask me how I am feeling, but not really listen to the answer. As soon as I start explaining where I am emotionally, her attention span lasts about 45 seconds. I feel like I have to say whatever I want to say as quickly and as succinctly as I can, even when I have something positive to say.

So I wonder if you are being asked how you feel in a way that sort of checks a box rather than really engaging with the way you are feelings. Sometimes that can be a clue.

JSS1227 posted 7/8/2019 12:15 PM

So I wonder if you are being asked how you feel in a way that sort of checks a box rather than really engaging with the way you are feelings. Sometimes that can be a clue.

Yes LukesDiner, there are times that it absolutely feels like WH is checking off boxes. I actually brought this up to him and MC in a session a couple months after DDay. Extra affection? Check. Frequent text/phone calls/FaceTimes throughout the day from work? Check. Ask how Iím doing? Check. Frequent apologies? Check. You get the idea. Sometimes, that is how it feels, and while that does make it feel less genuine and is disheartening at times, I also had to look at the fact that this is partially how WH operates, even in non-A related matters. And also look at the fact that WH is very much lacking in true empathy, and this is a skill he needs to work to develop. If he is operating off a checklist, I think itís because he knows those are things that are helpful, so he does them, even if itís based off of a desire to make things better rather than a desire to specifically do those things, if that makes sense. So yes, sometimes when he asks how Iím doing, I absolutely get the feeling that heís asking, but doesnít REALLY want a truthful answer. Too bad, he gets the truth, no matter how ugly it is.

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