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two weeks after D-day

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mrnicehockeyguy posted 7/2/2019 11:53 AM

So, it's been a little over two weeks since D-day. I have three questions that I would like input about.

1. Should I make the OP knowing that I know who he is a condition of possible R?
2. Should I initiate contact with the OBS?
3. Would either of those possibly ruin any chance of a R with my WW?

A little background information: I found out on a Friday night after we went out to dinner for our 10 year anniversary. When we got home, I wanted to make love. She said she "didn't feel like it." I was frustrated as this has been a frequent response the last couple months. So, I said that maybe I should go out to the bar. She said fine, but instead I went out to the couch and laid down. After 5-10 minutes, I heard her talking, so I went quietly to our bedroom door an began to eavesdrop on her phone conversation with her sister. I don't even remember exactly the specifics, but at one point, I opened the door and confronted her about her affair. She was surprised, hung up the phone, and did admit to it. He is a co-worker. Started over a year ago emotionally. Became physical last August. I actually responded pretty well, considering. At first, I was in denial, shock, etc. and actually really wanted to have sex with her. (??) That didn't happen, but I questioned her for a long time and neither of us slept that night. Since that night, I have been doing a lot of reading, researching, and we have had a lot of talks. We do have two small children. I got the book "Not Just Friends" and about 90% applies to our situation. She obviously had to contact him, she said she actually gave him the choice about how to proceed, and he said maybe they should take a break. Then he told her he chooses his children. He is married with two young children as well. She has done may of the things I have asked and answered may questions. We, for now, are trying to take time before making any drastic decisions. I have begun IC. She is going to start IC. My IC said not to start any marriage counseling yet. My major reservation with the R is that how is she ever going to fall in love with me again?

Thanks for any feedback and/or insight.

Rustylife posted 7/2/2019 12:10 PM

Sorry that you find yourself in this situation. You've started out on completely the wrong foot.

1. Giving her the chance to make a decision regarding the affair.
2. Opening yourself up already to someone who has hurt you in the worst way possible.
3. Desperate to reconcile at any cost.

All these things pile up and will hurt your ego a lot down the line. It will ultimately be very hard to reconcile with yourself if you keep making these decisions.

But that's alright. There is no handbook. Now, first thing you do is inform the OBS. It is necessary. Second, figure out if you can stay with her/forgive her given what she has done. Next, to gauge whether her heart is in this marriage anymore, give her certain conditions. No further contact. A thorough time-line that you should share with the OBS. Any electronic proof that remains of this affair. Ask her to leave her job as soon as possible. Has she apologized without blaming you?

An year long emotional affair with dreams of a future life is very difficult to overcome. But that doesn't change anything for you. Your goal is to decisively move on from infidelity, not reconciliation.

Read up on the 180. Try to sort your own head out before overwhelming yourself with what she wants.

mrnicehockeyguy posted 7/2/2019 12:32 PM

Thanks Rustylife.

I apologize for not being more clear. It's hard to think straight sometimes.

1. I did not give her the decision. I said I don't know what to do, but that there are two drastic different directions either D or R. She went to the OP, got rejected, and now is very hurt because she has lost the A and may lose the M.
2. I maybe did open up a little initially, but early on expressed my ambivalence. She is uncertain now too.
3. I am definitely not desperate to reconcile at any cost. Obviously, there are major considerations with her job, our children, and since I work for my father-in-law, possibly my job as well.

I have read some stuff on the 180, and fortunately I have and am doing a lot of it.

She has said sorry a lot. She has not blamed me at all. She has repeatedly said that "this had nothing to do with you." She knows that this is her issue and problem. She thinks there is something wrong with her and that she is a horrible person. She thinks she is selfish. She feels guilty.

I know that she has a lot to work out on her own. I guess that I do too. I know it is still early, so it's tough moving forward without direction.

Rustylife posted 7/2/2019 12:48 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. Amd what if that guy would've said yes? Such a devious person who wouldn't have given you a moment's thought if things had worked out her way. You really need to think long and hard if you can spend your life with this person. I find this to be so disgusting. That she was working on fucking you over and is now minimizing by saying that it has nothing to do with you.

Start with informing the other guy's wife. Don't fear that you're driving them closer or anything. Nothing you can do will change the ultimate outcome of this. Do it as early as possible. Create some real separation after stating your demands.

Do you think your FIL will be supportive to you? Might want to find a new job yourself buddy.

What was the state of your marriage? You mentioned a lack of intimacy? How long has this gone on? When was the last time you felt that you guys were truly good?

totallydumb posted 7/2/2019 13:33 PM

mrnicehockeyguy,

Should I initiate contact with the OBS?

Yes. Inform the OBS about the affair. She has a right to know.

I would also suggest both you and your WW get tested for STDs. You don't know if this OM has other affairs going on....

Don't believe everything your WW tells or promises you at this point. Waywards lie a lot, and tend to minimize or gaslight the BS.

How old are your children? You might consider having paternity tests done. Even if you are positive that they are yours. It sends a strong message to your WW that you do not trust her.

Talk to a divorce lawyer, not necessarily to file for divorce, but to learn what divorce would look like for you in your particular situation and location. Knowledge is power. Usually the first consultation is free. Talk to several lawyers, get several legal opinions on your situation.

Would either of those possibly ruin any chance of a R with my WW?

Let go of the outcome. It is much too early to make a decision on R or D. You must learn what you are going to have to forgive in order to R. You need to learn what your D options are as well.

Started over a year ago emotionally. Became physical last August.

This might not be the truth. Cheaters lie lots. Have your WW write a detailed time line of the affair. Give her a deadline to have it completed. Tell her you need this to understand what or if you are able to move forward either with or without her as your spouse.

He is a co-worker

Has she changed jobs? If she is in contact with him at work, the affair is still ongoing.

she said she actually gave him the choice about how to proceed,

This is total crap! The OM makes the choice for your marriage?? YOU need to take control of this situation. Tell your WW there is no room in your marriage for another man to make choices. If she needs to know his "choice" she is free to go and get that, but not as your wife.

he said maybe they should take a break. Then he told her he chooses his children.

How nice of him to take a break from fucking your wife.

He "chooses" his children? Perhaps the OBS may make a "choice" about her marriage too!

These cheaters sound so entitled to make "choices" for other peoples lives. Take control of you marriage and your life.

I have begun IC. She is going to start IC

Good! You both will benefit from counselling.

My IC said not to start any marriage counseling yet.

Your counsellor is right on the money. MC is a waste of time and money until your WW figures out why she thought is would be a good idea to fuck a coworker.

My major reservation with the R is that how is she ever going to fall in love with me again?

You must let go of the outcome. YOU may decide that her cheating is a deal breaker for you. Take CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE! MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICES ABOUT YOUR MARRIAGE. STOP LETTING ANYONE ELSE MAKE THOSE CHOICES FOR YOU!!!!

mrnicehockeyguy posted 7/2/2019 13:34 PM

So, she said she doesn't know what she would have did if he said yes. She would have had to think about it. She is really hurt that the decision was taken away from her.

The whole this is disgusting, not just the last little while.

The more I read, the more it reinforces the feeling that I need to inform the OBS. I did go to their house, but surprisingly he answered the door, denied, and I left peacefully. My WW was mad that I did that. It was before she admittedly confirmed it was him. I am probably going to go to inform the OBS sometime, just not sure when yet.

My FIL will probably be okay as he is a good, generous person and I am a key employee at a small company that would not be easily replaced. He is semi-retired and I manage a lot of important aspects of the company.

I thought the state of our marriage was okay, just 10 years in with kids can be tough. The lack of intimacy was directly related to the A since she had trouble having sex with two people at the same time.

The last time we were truly good was probably before children, so 8 years ago. Even up until two years ago we were probably fine. We did do some MC in 2017, but I guess it didn't really help.

She is currently focused a lot on what will make her happy. (and why she did this - unhappy??)

I feel like I should be doing the same.

If/when we both figure out ourselves, then we can confront the issue of trying for R or settling with D.

The future is wide open now...

ChamomileTea posted 7/2/2019 13:52 PM

The kneejerk reaction to discovering an affair is typically to return to the status quo if possible. Most of us do that, but in reality, it takes much longer to process the trauma. The time table for recovery is more like two to five years. The grief recovery work is similar to what one could expect from experiencing the death of someone close to us, and in a way, that's what's happened. We've lost the person we loved because they turned out not to be who we thought they were. Sounds simplistic, but in terms of the ways our brains process the information, it's fairly complex.

So yeah, you're likely to experience a wide array of emotional responses, some of which might have you doubting your chosen course. It's okay not to commit to either reconciliation or divorce until you've got a better idea of what it is that YOU truly want.

As to whether your WW gives you the identity of the AP and whether to contact the OBS... I would say 'yes' on both questions. Whether you contact the OBS is your decision. It's always better though to have two pairs of eyes looking for a restart of the affair as opposed to one. As you've already seen, the most typically response to exposure is that the MM throws the OW under the bus. Once his BW is informed, she makes sure on her end that contact isn't broken. Also, it's just the right thing to do. The OBS may need STD testing. Your WW might not be the only cheating he's done. MM lie to both their wives and their side-pieces. It's not unusual. Further, in case of abandonment, the OBS can prepare herself financially and not get cleaned out in the divorce. (This is more typical when we see female cheaters deserting their betrayed husbands though.)

In terms of whether or not she divulges the identity... that's usually a deal-breaker. If she can't be honest with you about the bare minimum of what she's done, she can't be honest enough to get through the process. While some people will tell you that you need every detail, most therapists recommend avoiding the sexual details in order not to create additional triggers. But the who, what, where, when, and why are just the basics. It's important to healing that your WW is an open book, so ALL questions are fair game and eventually you'll need to KNOW in your heart of hearts that she'll tell you the truth about anything you ask. My advice is that you be discerning about your questions, but do ask the ones you need.

Rustylife posted 7/2/2019 13:56 PM

I think you've done all you could possibly do on the wife front. Make it a priority to inform the scumbag's wife. That and a STD test. Reach out to your friends and family for support. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Keep working with your therapist in figuring out what you want.

Butforthegrace posted 7/2/2019 14:01 PM

I would suggest reaching out to the OBS as soon as possible. She can be an ally in terms of piecing together the truth, and besides it is the decent, honorable thing to do.

Dont tell your WW in advance that you are doing this. Among other things, if she reacts, you'll know they are still in contact.

Another good book to read is "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald.

mrnicehockeyguy posted 7/2/2019 14:17 PM

Well, it can be difficult to explain, but my WW has confirmed the identity of the OM.

However, she has not told him that I now know who he is.

I think I want her to tell him that I know who he is.

But I don't think that matters yet as I think I am going to try to contact the OBS and tell her that her husband and my wife have been having this affair that is supposedly now over.

WilliamM posted 7/2/2019 15:06 PM

Man, I am so sorry you are going through this crap. And that is what it is. Crap. First I want to answer your questions.

1. Should I make the OP knowing that I know who he is a condition of possible R? I bet he already know you knows. You do not want your life to tell him anything. They should never talk again. NC from now to forever.
2. Should I initiate contact with the OBS? Yes, without delay tell his wife of the affair. Don't tell your wife you are doing it. Just do it.
3. Would either of those possibly ruin any chance of a R with my WW? She is the one that will ruin any possibility of R. If she wants to save the marriage, she should not have an issue with the OBS learning of the affair. This will sound harsh, but her feelings are irrelevant when it comes to this issue at this point.

Now there are some concerns I have. Allow me to share:

...she said she actually gave him the choice about how to proceed, and he said maybe they should take a break.

What does this mean. What this sounds like is if he wanted to continue the affair, she would have done so regardless of how you feel. That just breaks my heart. Your feelings don't matter. Her heart is with him. Is she truly NC? If you want to save your marriage, and she wants to save it as well, she must, and I mean MUST, quit her job. They cannot work together or the affair will continue. What did she say about the affair? Did she blame you? Have you told anyone else? How long did her sister know of the affair? Have you met this guy before?

[This message edited by WilliamM at 3:13 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]

The1stWife posted 7/2/2019 15:41 PM

Make sure she chooses the marriage because she wants the marriage not because the OM dumped her.

Watch her actions. They will tell you everything.

Is she transparent?

Does she give you access to her phone or social media without asking?

Is she being honest and truthful? About everything?

Is she willing to talk about the Affair and answer any and all questions? Without saying I donít know or I donít remember I might add.

Stay positive.

GoldenR posted 7/2/2019 15:42 PM

Wait....

You found out. She calls him and says "Will you have me properly?". He says no.

I don't see what the issue is...

Do you want want to be her backup plan?

fareast posted 7/2/2019 19:35 PM

mrnicehockeyguy:

Sorry you have to join us here. You have received good advice. Let me add that I agree with GoldenR. You should not settle for being her Plan B. She was rejected by her AP so I guess youíll have to do! Really? No way Jose!

Look, a rule of thumb: Always value yourself. She needs to demonstrate in the strongest terms that she loves you and wants to be with you. Especially after this betrayal. Get tested for STDís and her as well. Inform the OBS. You are in control. You get to decide if you want to stay M to a cheater. Talk to a lawyer to learn your rights. Good luck.

Robert22205https posted 7/2/2019 21:50 PM

Your wife needs to believe that you are ready to divorce her but will first give her the opportunity to prove to you that she can fix herself and be a safe partner. Give her 90 days and extend if you decide it's appropriate.

Affairs die only when exposed.

The timeline is not optional. It's is detailed and covers the initial conversation s, when, where , and what they did. Subject to a polygraph test

Writing it down clarifies in her head that this was not a romance but rather a sordid affair.

Do you have any proof? You may need it since they're both now in damage control.

Can you report them to HR?

If the OBS doesn't believe you consider taking your wife for a surprise visit to the OM's house for a confession. And then to her parents for more confession. You can insist as a condition of R (it's called consequences for their inappropriate behavior).


OrdinaryDude posted 7/2/2019 23:36 PM

Since you work for your FIL, this puts you in a somewhat difficult position.

I would make it a condition of even the consideration of R that she confess to her father what she has done...still no guarantees if she does though.

If you are forced to expose her to her father, and to her employers HR department, then R should be completely off the table.

Buster123 posted 7/3/2019 01:13 AM

I'm sorry that you're here but your M is a sham, your WW actually LEFT YOU for OM and HE threw her under the bus, and still she's pining for him, she had no problems having sex with HIM, she your wife was denying you sex trying to remain faithful to OM, right now you have an unremorseful cheater as a wife, you've got NOTHING to work with at this point, so my suggestion is that you file for D without warning and EXPOSE her A with ALL family, close friends and of course OBS without warning, if shock and awe don't make her get her head out of her ass then you have your answer, D takes a long time and it can be stopped at any time if she comes around before it's final, man up and take control of your life.

ShutterHappy posted 7/3/2019 11:32 AM

Your WW never had the choice. She thought she was living a fairytale dream with her BF and when the affair got exposed, she thought that all the ILY and ę†iíll leave my horrible wife for you†Ľ were true, but, of course, it was all BS. His response is more in the line of, letís wait until this dies down, then we can resume our fun. And your WW is probably realizing that she's been fooled...

The first step is for her to go NC forever. Block numbers, etc...

Then inform the OBS. She has a right to know and youíll know very quickly if they are still talking.

Now you have the choice. You can get out of infidelity through R or D. Maybe thereís something to work with, with this:

She has said sorry a lot. She has not blamed me at all. She has repeatedly said that "this had nothing to do with you." She knows that this is her issue and problem. She thinks there is something wrong with her and that she is a horrible person. She thinks she is selfish. She feels guilty.

But the choice is entirely yours. Some of the posters here already mentioned some requirements for R, such as NC, timeline, polygraph, access to electronic device, etc... but it all depends on whether you are walking the R path or the D path.

Sending you strength! You will get through this.

Tigersrule77 posted 7/3/2019 11:53 AM

I agree with ShutterHappy. The OM was never interested in a relationship with her. He was interested in a piece of ass he could have with no strings attached. She was married, so she had to keep it a secret too.

If your WW has any interest in R, she needs to quit her job. That would be an action she can take to show that she is committed.

I have to ask you, why are you interested in R? Your WW seems like she was ready to jump with her AP, ditch you for him. Are you OK with being plan B? The fall back? It would make me believe that she is likely to do this again, looking for someone "better". They won't be, as someone who cheats with a married man is not better than you, the faithful husband, provider, caretaker, etc. Don't ever lose sight of that point.

RocketRaccoon posted 7/3/2019 21:11 PM

You have been given sound advice from the other posters, and thought I'd add a few observations for you to think about.

She obviously had to contact him, she said she actually gave him the choice about how to proceed,

Sigh...... it is obvious her AP is her first choice, which is why she gave him the first right of refusal.

This does not bode well for you, as she is still thinking about her AP as the Primary choice, and you are the Secondary. If she continues on this path of thinking, there is little chance of R for you.

Well, it can be difficult to explain, but my WW has confirmed the identity of the OM.

... after she had tried to protect her AP, not you. She has/had no respect for you.

However, she has not told him that I now know who he is.

Would not be too sure of that.... It is highly likely that she told her AP, he has now told his BS that there could be a crazy guy that will try and make contact with the BS, saying that he had an A with your wife.

Speed is the key here. Contact the OBS. Don't dawdle.

I think I want her to tell him that I know who he is.

Why? So that she can have more contact with her AP, and re-start their A? So that her AP can forewarn his BS about you, the crazy guy?

But I don't think that matters yet as I think I am going to try to contact the OBS and tell her that her husband and my wife have been having this affair that is supposedly now over.

Good. Contacting the OBS is not for revenge, but to give the OBS info to make a choice that neither you not the OBS had.

Do it now.

You are right not to assume that the A has ended. There are lots of cases where the WS 'supposedly' ended, but the A carried on. False R is a hell as bad as limbo.

Would suggest that you be more assertive in your M (or any future relationships you might have). Being a Nice Guy is not a bad thing, but it is unattractive, especially when they do not stand up for themselves.

Assertive does not mean being an a-hole, but being firm. Standing up for yourself.

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