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Where do I go from here? How do I fix this? Why am I not enough?

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HoldingTogether posted 6/6/2019 12:15 PM

LateNght,

You have got to find a way to separate what you want from what is being offered. I know you want to R and, again, I am not trying to dissuade you from that course. I am Reconciled myself so I know it can happen. But She👏🏻Is👏🏻Not👏🏻Offering that.

She is stringing you along and that shit is cruel. Unfortunately, the last two months have trained her that that approach works with you.

Teach her something else. Ultimatum time is here...it has been here. You need to tell her to shit or get off the pot. And you need to mean it. I promise you she will keep this shit up until she has absolutely no fucking other choice.

Think about it, reconciling means facing what an asshole she has been. Think anyone wants to do that? Would you?

She will put it off as long as possible. Go to any lengths necessary. Hurt you unimaginably. All just to avoid having to face herself.

I told you before. People do not change unless the pain and cost of not changing is greater than the pain an cost of changing.

Iím not telling you it canít happen. Iím telling you it definitely wonít happen unless you force her to make the choice. She will put it off for as long as she can.

HT

ff4152 posted 6/6/2019 12:17 PM

LN

Much of what you wrote was me 30 years ago. I was in a relationship with a very disfunctional woman. I just didnít see it. Everyone that knew her told me to GTF away from her but I didnít listen.

Despite the anger in your words, I can feel the relief that would flow within you if she came back. You would secretly feel lucky that she chose you. You think you can help her if she could only see what she is throwing away and what a POS this AP is.

I know youíre still clinging to hope. So did I and I wasted 6 years of my life. I chased her for most of the relationship until one day I decided I had enough. Unfortunately it took her cheating on me with many guys and a huge amount to psychological abuse to finally wake me up.

You really need to stop communicating and walk away from this mess. Blow it up if you like but the more you communicate with her, the longer you stay tangled within her web. I suspect that youíll keep on for a while until the next show drops. I hope for your sake that you donít but we will be here to help if you do.

Good luck to you.

HellFire posted 6/6/2019 12:29 PM

Women don't typically go from faithful,loving SO to hosting gangbangs.


You love the woman you thought she was. The woman she pretended to be. You are now seeing who she is. Her mask has slipped.

You need to be tested for STDs. Full panel.

I've thought all along that you never spoke to the OBS. So call her. Dont tell your ex,dont warn OM. Just call her. And,if you get proof she's been the office whore,let the other betrayed wives no..no warning.


I can't remember, are you in IC? You need to be. It will help you cope,and it will help you heal without knowing the entire truth. Because I dont think you will ever get the truth. I'm so sorry.

LateNght posted 6/6/2019 14:31 PM

Ok so I've gotten 2 very different pieces of advice here...


On the one hand its be indifferent, leave her alone let her miss me stop showing any emotion whether good or bad and let her come to me...

But on the other hand its said that she will put it off for as long as possible if left to herself and I need to give her an ultimatum...


So wtf do I do?!?

I'm prepared to move on either way but damn I'd like to know I picked the right choice

ChamomileTea posted 6/6/2019 14:41 PM

On the one hand its be indifferent, leave her alone let her miss me stop showing any emotion whether good or bad and let her come to me...

But on the other hand its said that she will put it off for as long as possible if left to herself and I need to give her an ultimatum...

It's not so much a case of one or the other, it's more like one after the other.

Lay out your boundaries of what she needs to do to be with you, then let her stew on it while you get on with your life. She'll catch up if she wants you.


ETA: Why not go ahead and post us a list of your proposed boundaries so we can help you shore them up. Write it as a list of your requirements to consider R, and then translate it into personal boundary statements regarding what you're willing to tolerate within your primary relationship.

ie. SO must hand over passwords = "I will not tolerate secretiveness in my primary relationship. I live my life in the open and I expect the same of my mate."

ie. There must be NC between SO and the OM, which should be maintained at all times. If NC is broken, my SO must tell me immediately = "I will not tolerate interlopers in my relationship, particularly by any who have previously transgressed upon me."

Once you've done a few of those, you'll begin to see that you're not just putting down a list of rules for someone else to follow, you're saying what YOU are willing to tolerate in your life. You can't build boundaries for others, but you can build and maintain them for yourself.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 3:21 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]

tushnurse posted 6/6/2019 14:59 PM

You don't ignore her to get her to come back. You ignore her to prevent her from causing you any new pain and trauma.

You give an ultimatum, boundary, and consequence, because that is what you need to even consider attempting to R.

HoldingTogether posted 6/6/2019 15:03 PM

It's not so much a case of one or the other, it's more like one after the other.

Exactly.

ďThis is what I need to even consider being with you ever again. Decide right now if you are in or out with those conditions.Ē If she says anything other than ďOKĒ. Then walk away from her and move on with your life.

Itís possible she will change her mind down the line and if you want to you can reconsider at that point. But until then you are single. Act accordingly and live your life like a fucking boss.

[This message edited by HoldingTogether at 4:27 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]

LateNght posted 6/6/2019 19:03 PM

Damnit I'm back to sad. What is wrong with me??? I seriously dont even feel like a man anymore.

I was doing so damn good today too but then she called and we small talked for a bit and then of course we brought up the situation and what I had said to her yesterday and she said she'll never see it my way and that it is my fault for risking her job and telling her dad and I just lost my shit I told her I had found out all the little things she had lied to me about over the past year and I knew she was still lieing and I knew that when she said she needed space from me and OM it was there was a 3rd guy she had lined up to take my place and I knew she had already cheated with this 3rd guy the night before I found the phone and that's why she isn't putting any real effort into fixing us because she already has my replacement.

I said I knew everything I just wanted to sit down and hear it from her own mouth. The truth. The whole truth. So I can process and move on. She doesn't want too. And she half assed denied sleeping with 3rd guy but didnt deny that she is talking to 3rd guy.


If I was enough she wouldnt be doing this.

If I was bigger, stronger, taller, richer, funnier, traveled more, fucked harder, cared less not more, then I would be enough.

But I'm not.

And I fucked up guys, I royally fucked up because 2 and half months ago when this first came out when we had the first big talk and we went thru all the whys she kept pulling back and wouldnt say something. Well she finally admitted she had a cheating fantasy. She wanted to roleplay and she felt like I would have judged her so she didnt tell me and somehow ended up doing it for real.

***story removed due to graphic content***

Fuck I've been keeping that story in for so long bc it's so embarrassing and I really feel like it's what pushed her over the edge like it was her permission and she will never take me seriously again no matter what I do. I should have never done that stupid fucking roleplay!!!


[This message edited by LateNght at 7:45 PM, June 7th (Friday)]

RocketRaccoon posted 6/6/2019 21:53 PM

Dude,

Scream. Yell. Curse and swear. Get it out.

We know it is frustrating how someone you love can turn on you like this. It boggles the mind. It does not make sense. It must be a nightmare, that you want to wake up from.

What you are trying to find, is the reason for this, and some form of closure. Sad to say, you will never find the reason that will satiate your frustration, nor will you find proper closure from her.

She will not tell you any truths, not because of what you did or supposedly didn't do. It is all on her.

I said I knew everything I just wanted to sit down and hear it from her own mouth.

The more you try and speak to her because you want to be the 'better man' and rationalise things with her, you will be fighting a losing battle. WS do not think rationally. They are incapable of it.

The truth. The whole truth. So I can process and move on. She doesn't want too. And she half assed denied sleeping with 3rd guy but didnt deny that she is talking to 3rd guy.

Stop talking to her. This will only hurt you more, as all she will be doing is lie to you. You want truth that she will not give you, which makes you even madder. In this case, who can you control? *hint: it is not her* I would hazard a guess that she actually might enjoy toying with you.... and you let her.

If I was enough she wouldnt be doing this.

If I was bigger, stronger, taller, richer, funnier, traveled more, fucked harder, cared less not more, then I would be enough.

With some people, it will never be enough. They will keep on chasing for their whole life, and will never find contentment.

The best case scenario is you walk away from this. Ghost her. This does not mean you are slinking away. Far from it, you are 'done' with her and don't care about her, as she does not 'spark joy' (apologies to Ms. Kondo) in your life.

Why do you need affirmation from someone that has failed and betrayed you? If you want affirmation, let it come from a source you respect.

You can do way better than to stay with a cheater.

OwningItNow posted 6/6/2019 22:06 PM

LateNight, damn it. I am so sorry. You did NOTHING FUCKING WRONG! You were trying to be fun and supportive of her little fantasy. She is messed up. None of this strikes me right. Honest, good, loving women do not humiliate people. She sounds very narcissistic and broken.

It is my opinion that you have never seen this woman clearly. Do you have family, LN? What do they think of her? Where are they in all this?

I am so freaking sorry.
She's a cold bitch.

skerzoid posted 6/6/2019 22:11 PM

LateNight:

The Loft, Bitch Boy in Chains, Plan C, etc.

How much are you going to take?

Walk away, ghost her, move on, stop hoping she will come out of the fog. Watch the video "Somebody That I used To Know" a million times. Listen to the Four Seasons "Walk Like A Man", every morning, noon, and night!

Seriously, you are co-dependent beyond all imagining. You've got to get your balls back. You have to get away from this situation. Why, in God's name, would you want to stay with her?

Love? Forget it. You can find love everywhere. There are millions of women out there wishing they could find a guy with his own business that would be loyal to them.

OM1, OM2, WW, are all laughing at you. You threatened to burn it down. Do it!

[This message edited by skerzoid at 10:14 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]

HeHadADoubleLife posted 6/6/2019 23:02 PM

Honestly, LateNight, this sounds borderline sexually abusive.

I realize that you chose to indulge in the fantasy with her, so maybe you feel that she didn't do anything wrong. But there's a big difference between a run-of-the-mill cheating fantasy and something as extreme as what you describe.

You don't say if you explicitly consented to her locking your dick in a cage, gagging, shackling, or whipping you - maybe those are things that had already been part of your sexual relationship, it's not totally clear since these things aren't cheating fantasy specific. It doesn't sound like they were part of a routine to you. To me, those actions seem like extremes that a normal cheating fantasy doesn't go into. Not to say that cheating fantasies are great to begin with, but fantasies can be healthy outlets with two consenting partners- this one does not seem to be healthy at all.

There is such a thing as sexual coercion, and I can understand how it can be a blurry line for some people to see. We all want to see our partners turned on, so of course sometimes we indulge them in things we ourselves aren't into, but knowing that they're turned on turns us on. However there is a big difference between willingly doing something you dislike because you know your partner likes it, and doing it because you feel you have to for some reason - like being afraid that they might leave you if you don't. You whimpering answers to her while she berates you about your "inadequacies" sounds a hell of a lot like coercion to me.

I know we're all getting bits and pieces of your story as you've updated over time, so we're piecing it all together just as you are. But the cheating itself is already such a selfish abuse, add on the sex parties with her whole office, and now your experience of you agreeing to indulge a fantasy of hers, and then her taking it completely over the top - the level of disrespect she took this too is egregious.

If I was enough she wouldn't be doing this.

If I was bigger, stronger, taller, richer, funnier, traveled more, fucked harder, cared less not more, then I would be enough.

I know it's really hard to see it right now, but this is not about you. The kind of person who feels the need to do these things is FUBAR - Fucked. Up. Beyond. All. Reason! Your pain and suffering is yours to feel, and feel it you should. But it is absolutely NOT on you to take responsibility for any of her actions.

We know you are trying to search for answers. We all do. We assume it must have been something we did or didn't do. "I'm not enough" is the lie we all tell ourselves when there's no logical reason we can find. We start grasping at straws looking for anything that makes sense. It's our mind's way of trying to assert control over a situation that we really have no control of.

Control is an illusion. No amount of answers will bring you the control you seek, because ultimately what you want to control is the outcome, and that is a level of control you will never have.

Months after DDay I scrounged through phone records, texts, and emails to create a timeline to attempt to make sense of it all. And there are still huge gaping holes in my knowledge of the situation, and I don't have any more control than I did before I began the scavenger hunt. There is literally no reason good enough to do what she did to you.

Please take care. You're only a few months out, so be patient with yourself. Drink water, get some sleep!

I also just want to emphasize the points made by RocketRaccoon and OwningItNow below.

Why do you need affirmation from someone that has failed and betrayed you? If you want affirmation, let it come from a source you respect.
She does not fucking deserve you. Her opinion means nothing.

It is my opinion that you have never seen this woman clearly. Do you have family, LN? What do they think of her? Where are they in all this?
Please ask for help from friends and family. No matter how embarrassing you feel it is, the people who really love you should be there for you no matter what. I honestly would not have survived if it weren't for my family and a few close friends. They can give you honest yet loving feedback when you have questions, and also just a shoulder to cry on when need be.

SI was also a godsend for me. There's nothing like screaming into the abyss of the internet to get you through the tough times.

Have you been going to therapy? My XH is a sex addict, and as the spouse of an SA (especially one who would not seek treatment like my XH) I have an abundance of unpleasant experiences that I had kept bottled up for many years. Going to therapy and talking through those experiences with a compassionate person was/is very freeing. That release you felt by finally typing out your story, you could feel that regularly if you had a safe place to discuss these issues.

Of course SI is a great place for that as well, but be aware to preface any overtly sexual posts with a TMI in case they might trigger other members. Many of us have dealt with spouses who have various levels of perversion like this, and it is helpful to talk about it with other people, even if it's just to say "holy shit, I can't believe this happened to me!!" But I always try to stay mindful that others might not be prepared to read our experiences as they can be extreme.

If you can't afford regular in person therapy, there are some great online services. I have an online therapist who has been with me since about 2 months before DDay so she's seen it all, and having weekly 30 minute check ins with her via video call is really helpful! I can also text her through the app anytime I want, and she'll get back to me when she can during her normal working hours.

It's kind of nice to know I can just spill my guts when I need to, even if it's 3am because I can't sleep. And her responses always cut right to the quick of the situation - I could write her 4 paragraphs of word vomit, and she will come back with one really insightful question.

I also see an in person therapist who specializes in trauma, which I find to be very helpful. You can interview therapists until you find one you like - mine even talked to me over phone call at first to see if we would be a good fit before I came in to see her.

Stay strong. Vent here if you need to. We understand.

LateNght posted 6/6/2019 23:17 PM

She called. She answered some hard questions. Questions that she previously lied on she finally came clean.

I dont know if it's just because shes sees me going back and forth between rage and sorrow and it's so bad that's shes starting to think fuck this is fucked up or maybe shes just bored of toying.

Idk. I do know that I always feel calm after hearing the truth.


Where most people would yell and scream and cuss and blame and call names at some of these truths I have always, throughout our entire 7 years looked blanked faced and calm as ever when truth is being spoken. Regardless of how bad it may be.

The actions and decisions could be abhorrent, but the truth being told about it makes it relieving to hear. Maybe that's weird.

I asked her about a specific time that for w.e she felt like she needed to deny over and over and over.... and she said ok yeh that was one of those times. Gave all the details, and I asked her why. And she told the truth when she said "bc I didnt give a fuck about you or what I told you I wouldn't do, I wanted it and I was going to do it."... sounds awful. But I am so fucking relieved right now.

Anytime I was selfish in our relationship that's exactly the reason I gave bc it was true, I didnt give a fuck about what she wanted I wanted what I wanted and I was gonna have it. If its gonna be a fubar'd situation you might as well be honest about it.


Supposedly she wants to come tomorrow and we both sit down and go over the entire A and she will answer everything honestly.

I can only hope that the answers flow so freely tomorrow as they did tonight.

It's not her reason itself that feels good, no one wants to be disregarded like that. Its the fact that shes admitting it, it's on her. Its not some made up BS that implies I had anything to do with it, that's what feels good.

LateNght posted 6/6/2019 23:24 PM

Owning it,

I do have family, no biological kids though.

My family loved her. And her son. They dont know all of the psychological torment shes caused though.

They know she cheated and their not happy about that.

And her family idk what they think of me other than being pissed about risking her career.

notanotherchance posted 6/7/2019 00:01 AM

LN

Who gives a crap about what her family thinks of you. You could have been Jesus & they would still stick with her. Its her families loss not yours so if they come back at you just tell them politely to FO. She is showing you her true colors time & time & time & time again.
She is not relationship material period.

Sending strength

ChamomileTea posted 6/7/2019 06:58 AM

Get your answers if you think it will make you feel better, then dump her. Although, I honestly do think you know enough already. A person that abusive isn't going to EVER stop abusing you, no matter what they say.

You can still have a wonderful life, but in order to do that, you have to get back out into the world and put all this toxicity in your rearview.

DevastatedDee posted 6/7/2019 07:06 AM

If I was enough she wouldnt be doing this.
If I was bigger, stronger, taller, richer, funnier, traveled more, fucked harder, cared less not more, then I would be enough.

No no no no no. Please don't let her being a horrible person have you devaluing yourself. You didn't deserve this. The only thing I would suggest that you improve about yourself right now would be loving yourself enough to refuse to be abused by this woman.

Love? Whatever. That's a feeling and it's a strong one, but those feelings fade with time. I think you may have edged into an unhealthy attachment more than love at this point. It happens sometimes when a person is subjected to abuse. That unhealthy attachment can be as powerful as love, even though it's based on nothing good.

Let's say you "win" and get her back. What does that look like for your self-image? Is that a win or is that you letting someone abuse you without protest?

I know you can't see it now, but there is a whole other world out there. A much more beautiful world. You can walk away from this chaos and find it. You can find clarity and so much more peace.

tushnurse posted 6/7/2019 07:22 AM

Late Nite - Call your HR department today. Ask if they have an IEP program and get hooked up w/ a therapist today.

The new information that you shared is a trauma and an abuse.
Now you think she is willing to be a decent spouse because she is finally brave enough to give you some truth.

Well here is a truth you need to here.

YOU ARE A VICTIM. YOU HAVE BEEN ABUSED. YOUR WIFE IS A SICK BROKEN PERSON, AND YOU CANNOT FIX HER.

She didn't do this because you weren't enough. She didn't do this because of anything you did or did not do.
She did it because she is a very broken person.
Repeat this over and over, and stop communicating with her.
Step back and read this thread from yesterday. You were feeling strong and angry, and ready to take some action to protect your heart. Then you communicated with her and it went to shit.

Just S. T. O. P. !!!!!! STOP.

Get NC in place. Get some distance from this so you can see it for what it is, and get your ass to a therapist to help you deal with the trauma.

northeasternarea posted 6/7/2019 07:55 AM

Get your answers if you think it will make you feel better, then dump her. Although, I honestly do think you know enough already. A person that abusive isn't going to EVER stop abusing you, no matter what they say.

You can still have a wonderful life, but in order to do that, you have to get back out into the world and put all this toxicity in your rearview.

^^^^^^
This.

She wanted to get married, you didn't. She is auditioning your replacement(s). What you will get from her is more lies. You are currently setting yourself up to be plan B. She's not sorry and she doesn't respect you.

brokendreamer posted 6/7/2019 11:33 AM

Hi Latenight

I have just read through your thread and I am sorry that you are in this position, truly.

A couple of things have jumped out specifically, so maybe I will start with those. First, does your SO have a diamond encrusted vagina, that is not only capable of having sex, but also giving back massages, making coffee, gourmet meals and paying the bills??? Because she seems to attract more men to her nether regions than dog shi* attracts flies? There is you, OM, the business partner, Guy A, Guy B, just about every other male at work it seems and why don't we just throw in the mail man too! There is sex, bondage, bdsm, orgy apartments, infidelity etc etc. I mean wow, when does this woman have time to eat? I don't mean to be rude, but she comes across as having flattened more grass than the New Zealand all blacks!! Are you sure she is what you want for a life partner, potentially the mother of your future kids? Her resume isn't reading too good right now. She cheats, lies, insults you, threatens you with police, disrespects you, the list is endless!

The reason I am bluntly pointing out her 'attributes' is to hopefully get you to realise that she is not the PRIZE, in fact she is the one empty box, the booby prize. You deserve so much more, than this selfish, self serving, cheating, lying, abusive madam! She is totally disrespecting you, she has ZERO remorse, ZERO committment to your relationship right now and is simply manipulating everyone involved while she re feathers her nest.

The second thing that jumped out, is her job/career, she is still working for OM and that has to stop immediately. If as you say she has a decent career, then she can and should get employed elsewhere. How on earth is anyone involved meant to move on whilst the 2 offenders are still working closely together, it is a recipe for disaster.

You are nowhere close to beginning reconciliation I am sorry to say, there is so much work to be done before you should even think about agreeing to that. I know you want all this to stop right now, for everything to be fine and dandy again, but it is NOT going to happen overnight, or even in the near future. I mean sure you can forgive her, bury your head in the sand and rug sweep, have her right back and try to forget it never happened. If only that was the answer. Trust me this will not work, not in a month of Sundays is that going to fix your relationship. I also know that this is not what you want to hear right now and probably want to scream at me. Feel free, if it helps, I have broad shoulders

In terms of offering practical advice, I consider myself a novice compared to some of the members here who have replied to you, they possess a wealth of combined wisdom and experience.

Let me say this though, you come across as a lovely guy with a big heart and a huge capacity to love and be loved. Taking on another mans baby at 22 is admirable and you have my full respect and admiration for that. You stood by your SO and the little one, when many other guys your age would be out partying. The fact you love that boy as your own, tells me so much about the man you are. Unfortunately sometimes our SO's mistake kindness for weakness, mine sure did and they take advantage and take us for granted. My best advice to you would be not to think about the future now as far as your relationship is concerned, just deal with each day and focus on yourself. I assume son has gone with his mummy, so you need to look after yourself. I would however make arrangements to see the little boy a couple of times a week, as you are for all intents and purposes his daddy and he needs you too. I would contact some of your friends and enjoy a little of the social time which you may have missed out on. Get on some aftershave, something smart to wear and go do whatever you enjoy, play pool, go to a bar and listen to music/chat, grab a pizza with your buddies etc. This will help take your mind off things somewhat and it will also make SO feel a little less secure about your dependency on her. She needs to actually start feeling the first pangs of remorse and to take you less for granted. It is human nature to try and hold on to something we fear we may lose! so give little miss magnet muff something to chew on apart from her own desires.

I promise you that if you are ever to truly have her back, heart body and soul, then you have to distance from her initially. In the meantime by focusing on yourself and slowly putting one foot in front of the other, you will be making progress to healing. You never know, there may come a time when you don't want her back, even though I am sure that is unimaginable at this point. I would hazard a guess that she is going to want to come back, as she had it good with you, but it has to be on your terms not hers. Don't think of this as the end, it is the beginning of something new and better, whether that is with her or without her.

Value yourself because only then will she value you.
Sending you hugs and support
BD x

[This message edited by brokendreamer at 11:55 AM, June 7th (Friday)]

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