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Where do I go from here? How do I fix this? Why am I not enough?

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LateNght posted 6/3/2019 14:43 PM

Well like I said as of now we've taken the first small step in R and moving on but y'all really are making me paranoid that theres another OM.

HoldingTogether posted 6/3/2019 15:02 PM

Unfortunately I donít have time right now for one of my long winded posts...

Fortunately though, ChamomileTea already wrote what I would have told you:

You've said over and over that your goal is to save this thing, but there's no way to control how another person behaves. What you can do though, is to be true to yourself. Your SO's demand for "space" doesn't serve YOU. It leaves you without the ability to observe any of the internal changes she says she wants to make, and without daily reassurance. We don't trust a WS's words. We look for actions. You can't see her actions because she's setting up a private environment.

If I were to give you some advice, I'd say make it a "now or never" proposition. If she's willing to do the work, she does it while maintaining boundaries within the relationship. Otherwise, you walk. And mean it. From here, it looks like she's setting you on the back-burner, waiting to see if the dust settles with OM, or in absence of that if she can make it on her own or even find someone else. That would make you about 4th in the list of options... but YOU are not "an option".

YOU are the one who sets the parameters for R, not the person who broke the relationship. YOU set the personal boundaries for what you're willing to tolerate from a potential mate. It doesn't work if the WS drives R, because long before a BS can heal, they want to put it all behind them. I see this request for "space" as a bid for control. This sets you up for another "my way or the highway" confrontation down the pike.


Read that several times and really let it sink in. I donít know if there is some other OM, or if she is hoping to carry on with her original OM, or if she is just trying to gain some measure of control of this situation. But I do know that this is true beyond a shadow of a doubt:
YOU are the one who sets the parameters for R, not the person who broke the relationship. YOU set the personal boundaries for what you're willing to tolerate from a potential mate. It doesn't work if the WS drives R, because long before a BS can heal, they want to put it all behind them

And one additional note:

Stop referring to yourself as paranoid! I fucking HATE it when BSí refer to themselves as paranoid. When someone demonstrates to you repeatedly that they are ready, willing and able to lie to you over and over again? Being suspicious of that person isnít paranoid...

Itís fucking prudent.

Seriously, referring to yourself as paranoid is dismissive and minimizing of the situation you find yourself in. Be fair to yourself, even if your suspicions are unfounded they are not unreasonable under the circumstances.

HT

[This message edited by HoldingTogether at 3:05 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]

skerzoid posted 6/3/2019 15:03 PM

LN:

You are not paranoid. Once you cheat, it's much easier the next time.

She is throwing you scraps and you are acting like its victory.

Her wanting space is not indicative of her wanting R, it's indicative of her hoping that she can continue with somebody other than yourself.

You want her back so bad that you are willing to rug sweep and accept any excuse that she puts out there. This is hard to watch.

All of us know the hurt. However, All of us can see manipulation happening also. You might not even be plan B. More like C or D.

Consider swallowing your pain and moving on. If she really loves you, she would move heaven and earth to be with you. All she wants to move right now is "out".

tushnurse posted 6/3/2019 15:23 PM

LN - she is giving you just enough to keep you hanging on.

You deserve more, but as long as your fear of ending the relationship is greater than your fear of demanding what you or anyone deserves in an intimate relationship, then you will be the one who keeps getting hurt.

You mention Possible guy #3, and she has a new phone w/ the same prefix as the area he lives in? But that just a coincidence? ? ? ?

Has she cheated on you prior to this time?

I would encourage you to demand more, and give her some reasonable ultimatums. If she is unwilling then you have your answer, and if that is the answer at least you can choose to stop allowing her to harm you.

Look into your employee IEP, IAP type program and see if you can get in with a therapist for a few visits, you are lost, and hoping that she gets it. You need to figure out why you are so desperate to tolerate being disrespected.

OwningItNow posted 6/3/2019 15:39 PM

I don't want to be unreasonable or overly demanding or controlling

Codependents always say stuff like this. I always said stuff like this. When you hook yourself to someone who takes advantage and dodges and shape shifts, you can't help but try to get a handle on this poorly defined commitment. These are called boundaries and requirements for R. And yet because of our issues with FOO where we bent over backwards to get someone's love, we feel badly for drawing boundaries with those we love. It's sad to watch.

LateNight, you are in serious need of IC, and nothing that we say is going to wake you up from the all-encompassing need to keep this relationship, no matter how hurtful or bad it is for you. I remember too well what it was like to be in your shoes, and even though I knew I was not getting enough, not getting what I needed, the pain of letting go was beyond what I could sanely handle. I totally understand. Just get yourself to IC because there are more red flags than I could possibly count--from her moving out to her mother supporting it to your believing words in the face of actions to burner phones to GFs who barely answer or text to calls from weird towns and 7 years of dating in your 20s without marriage. There is nothing in what you have shared that makes me think this will end well for you. Nothing. My guess is that she plans on slowly ghosting you now that she has moved out, but she never plans to admit it. And you will feel as if you are going crazy when that happens, so please find an IC now. Like yesterday.

I'm sorry. I wish things would work out like you want, but nothing points in that direction. Good luck. We'll be here when the roof caves in.

Eta: do you have your own family, LateNight? Where are they in all this?

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:44 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]

sisoon posted 6/3/2019 16:07 PM

The thought of having to open up and break down and be seen as a sobbing mess in front of a stranger is scary to me. So I haven't made the call. I'm embarrassed enough as it is.
The thing you want to avoid is often the thing you need to do.

[This message edited by sisoon at 4:08 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]

Booyah posted 6/3/2019 17:18 PM

"If she doesn't show me our relationship is important pretty quickly I'm moving on"?

Latenight I'm all for offering the gift of R to someone who's truly remorseful and willing to put the work in. That said your wife has done NOTHING to show that her actions line up with one who's worth the investment.

Your wife has flat out shown you time and time again how "important" you and your "relationship" is.

Please open your eyes and see if she really valued you, your relationship and the family you had she wouldn't have done all the shit she's pulled.

northeasternarea posted 6/3/2019 21:03 PM

Typically, when we see a WS taking space, they're test-driving an AP.

This is true.

GoldenR posted 6/3/2019 22:37 PM

They beat me to it.

Needing space to figure things out or to see if I miss you or to clear my head...

Every one of those is cheaterspeak for "I want to fuck my AP in peace without you interrupting"

anoldlion posted 6/4/2019 02:38 AM

You are young, have a good job, and free. Why are you wishing to throw this away for someone who DOES NOT love you the way you love her. I have already told you that you cannot make someone love you and want to be with you. You are trying to be a KISA who wants to save the fair maiden from the dragon but the fair maiden is pulling for the dragon. Anyone that truly wanted R would be all over you trying to show you she is doing everything in her power to gain your love and trust. She would not be giving you half-assed answers and reasons for separation. Since her mother is encouraging her separation begs to know if she knows something about her daughter's reasons that you don't know. Don't waste your life on what ifs. Go find someone who wants to love you and be with only you. I do wish you well.

northeasternarea posted 6/4/2019 07:01 AM

You canít save a relationship until you are ready to lose it. Let her go. Focus on you. What do you want? Process the seriousness of her actions.

Wool94 posted 6/4/2019 07:39 AM

A truly remorseful SO will welcome your suspicions with honesty. You can't be afraid to face whatever answers she gives you. You also can't bury your head in the sand. You must remain vigilant if you want to stay with this woman.

sewardak posted 6/4/2019 08:14 AM

Process the seriousness of her actions.

this!

LateNght posted 6/4/2019 12:45 PM

I'm trying.

But its pissing me off.

If I let this go, if I move on, if what we had is the past and stays in the past then I'll set fire to it.

Let it burn to the ground.

Because if I ever turn around, if I ever have a moment of weakness and look back, I dont want to see anything, I dont want to feel anything.

I want it to be nothing.

But because of the love I have for her, the love I have felt, and still feel... the love I KNOW she had for me and showed relentlessly before this happened... I feel that it's important for me to fight for us. Before I cross the bridge, or jump off the ledge.

Because theres no coming back from that ever.

I dont want to blow it up and burn it down. I'm hanging by a thread to keep that from happening.

HeHadADoubleLife posted 6/4/2019 12:51 PM

Stop referring to yourself as paranoid! I fucking HATE it when BSí refer to themselves as paranoid. When someone demonstrates to you repeatedly that they are ready, willing and able to lie to you over and over again? Being suspicious of that person isnít paranoid...

Itís fucking prudent.

Seriously, referring to yourself as paranoid is dismissive and minimizing of the situation you find yourself in. Be fair to yourself, even if your suspicions are unfounded they are not unreasonable under the circumstances.

^^ Just wanted to second this from Holding Together! Thank you for saying this in such a straightforward way.

I was always trying to explain this to my XH, who was the king of "if you have to look, then you don't trust me, and our marriage is over anyway."

If someone who cheated on you gets mad at you for looking through their phone, or being suspicious, then they are basically just telling you that they want you to shut the f@ck up already and leave it alone.

So sorry you are in this position LateNght.

Booyah posted 6/4/2019 16:39 PM

"I feel it's important to fight for us"?

In order for a relationship (any relationship) to work it takes BOTH parties willing to work at it.

Your WW has shown you how much she's willing to work at this by doing nothing.

Your own words, "SHE STILL LOVES HIM".

You mentioned in your first post that she was 20 yrs old when you met her and she had a seven month old child. Questions.

Where's the father of this child?

Why did their relationship end (what she told you)?

Were they married?

Has he been around at all over the past seven yrs?

Have you spoken to him as to why their relationship ended?

Do you have a way to track him down if you haven't spoken to him over the past seven yrs to see why their relationship ended?

NoOptTo posted 6/4/2019 19:34 PM

Let me say something from one that is much older. He say you want to burn it to the ground so not to remember it. Hey all of our experiences help build us into the people we become. Yes she has given you a shitsandwich to eat. Yet you have stood up and drew your line in the sand. She now is worried about losing her job yet wont fight for her relationship with you. You have shown that you will live by your values and morals. If this relationship ends, you CAN look back a d see how you have grown an individual. You learned how to love deeply, take on responsibility that your didnt need too, etc. I'm sure you can list more of things you did while being g in this relationship. It WILL help you in your next relationship.

It takes two committed people to even attempt R. She has shown no interest in it. Time to detach further and begin to heal yourself. Look at all the things you can offer a relationship. Your WWGF is broken inside and cant see it. Eventually, you'll find someone else that you can share your life with.

NorCalLost posted 6/4/2019 22:00 PM

(((LateNght)))

I'm so sorry for what your SO is putting you, and the little one, through. I want to share my experience, because I've gone through something similar.

My husband of six years got tired of me working out of town. He got bored with me, and wanted to be with other women. I thought he was the love of my life. I've known him for almost 30 years.

There were so many red flags during our marriage, going right back to the beginning of it, that I ignored because I loved him so much. I could have saved myself so much time and pain if I had not pulled the wool over my own eyes when red flags first started popping up.

At the end, he literally dumped me over the phone, one day after meeting the OW and telling her that he was single.

Like you, I exposed - and like your SO, my husband was ENRAGED. He lied to me, blamed me, called me crazy, and trashtalked me to his family and our mutual circle. Most in the circle abandoned me by default, because I met them all through him. It was horrible.

After he left me, I found out about horrible ways he'd treated women who came before me, including his first wife. But I stood out, because I was the first woman to ever call him out on his bad behavior, the first woman who exposed him.

Now he hates me, has completely ghosted me, and will probably never speak to me again. Yes, it hurts, but the reality is that if he had truly ever loved me he would never have mistreated me or betrayed me to begin with. He promised never to lie to me like my first husband did. And yet, that's exactly what he ended up doing, over and over.

A remorseful spouse does not fly into a rage when their affair is exposed. A remorseful spouse who wants to reconcile or "fix things" as your SO said she wants to do, does not move out of your home and separate from you.

Everything is crystal clear now that I have had more than a year alone to think back on the six years of lies and betrayals. But I understand your pain. I understand the conflict between anger towards your betrayer and a longing to be in their arms getting comforted, a need for the pain to end.

This will hurt, but please understand, based on everything you've posted, it seems clear that your SO is not remorseful and does not intend to stay with you. She may be throwing you crumbs of hope to keep from hurting you more, but it's clear from my perspective and similar experience that she is not a good candidate for reconciliation. She is stringing you along.

I'm a lot older than you. I wasted my whole adult life loving this man, forgiving him over and over for big and small hurts, only to be left alone, unable to get back all of those wasted years.

Please please leave her. If she truly finds remorse, it will be crystal clear from her CONSISTENT, transparent conduct and accountability. If she truly loved you, you wouldn't have to wonder. You'd know.

Take care. I wish you all the best.

NorCalLost posted 6/4/2019 22:07 PM

P.S. I would also add, SHAME ON HER MOM AND DAD for making you feel guilty about jeopardizing her job. She shouldn't even be working there anymore! If she had true remorse, your SO would have quit her job on the spot after DDay, regardless of how much she needed the money.

In my view, there's no shot at reconciliation when a cheater continues to work with their affair partner.

And for her parents to blame you for exposing, when their daughter brought this on herself, again - SHAME ON THEM for enabling her crappy behavior. They should have YOUR back, not hers.

skerzoid posted 6/4/2019 23:00 PM

LateNight:

That's all noble, you want to fight for her.

She is the one who should have to fight for you.

You are doing the "pick me" dance. I'm sorry but that never works. She will just get irritated that you won't go away.

She is actually fighting for HIM.

You want her to want you? Walk away. Be strong. Act with courage. Women want what they can't have, they hate men that beg them. You are begging her.

She is not going to get him, & she is blaming you.

Women are drawn to strength. Women are drawn to courage.

You want her to want you? Walk away instead of chasing her.

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