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A long road

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Unbroken78 posted 5/13/2019 00:06 AM

There's a third option.


Blow it up to the world. You say you are worried about your kids/grandkids...well tell them the whole truth with evidence.

Stop hiding the truth. Truth is a lion. It doesn't need you to protect it...it needs you to set it free. It will protect itself.


I say this in the nicest way- You need a large dose of pissed off righteous anger...and use that anger to do what you need to do. Anger is not wrong in situations like this as it enables people to do hard things.


You have a hard thing to do...get pissed off and do it.


Stop taking blame and start assigning it where it belongs...and do it loudly, publicly, and to everyone.

anoldlion posted 5/13/2019 02:24 AM

I'm retired and have been married longer than you. I can't tell you what you should do but I can tell you what I would do. I would not let her ruin my retirement years. You have obviously been in a semi open marriage for a while. I'm pretty sure she has no desire to alter her lifestyle any more than you. If I was in your position I would sit her down and tell her, that you have meticulously examined the photo and it is definitely her. I would propose we live together amicably, doing together those things that require both of us (weddings, graduations, funerals, etc) but otherwise lead separate lives. She can do what she wants and you get to do what you want. Otherwise, it's tell the whole world what she has going on, along with pictures. You have a right to live well during your retirement, and as I said, she don't want the security she has to end either. At our age we think a little different than people in their 30's, 40's or 50's. I do wish you well.

[This message edited by anoldlion at 2:25 AM, May 13th (Monday)]

GoldenR posted 5/13/2019 05:37 AM

If you can't leave bc of finances, then you should at least start enjoying the benefits of the open marriage that you're in.

Other than that, you can threaten total nuclear exposure with the pic to get a settlement in your favor.

Chrysalis123 posted 5/13/2019 06:00 AM

I like anoldlion's idea after seeing an attorney to see if there are any other options. Perhaps there is a way to structure some security for you in the event she acts out again.

The IC idea is also very smart.

steadychevy posted 5/13/2019 06:31 AM

I'm now 68 years old and have been separated from my WW since September, 2017. We will be married 42 years in June (not yet divorced). My DDay1 was September 1, 2013. We were not wealthy but could live quite comfortably without too many restrictions as a couple. Separately, not so much.

My WW wasn't doing what I asked of her in order for me to consider R as a possibility. I think she thought I would eventually get over the LTA and life would just go on. That is my opinion. The fact she was being so inactive was killing me. I was dying a little more everyday (faster than normal) and my life was hell with occasional bright spots instead of "living the dream" as I should have been.

I couldn't live like that. I couldn't have an "open" marriage. I'm a born again Christian and that is against my beliefs but also my character. It's making a choice between two very shitty options. I chose to suffer financially (I won't live in the street).

I highly recommend getting an IC. I've had 3. One okay, one totally bad and the current one is excellent. I suffered from PTSD and my IC deals with PTSD and trauma as part of her specialty and she's a Christian. She's had PTSD herself. I still have triggers but they mostly don't have the same deleterious effect.

It's a really shitty situation, Moongazer. I just wanted to give you a different perspective based on my own situation.

The1stWife posted 5/13/2019 07:28 AM

If you can't leave bc of finances, then you should at least start enjoying the benefits of the open marriage that you're in

I agree with this. You don’t have to D her. But you do not have to fund her lifestyle either. You can make sure she has a roof over head and food. Medical insurance.

Beyond that - cut her off. No $. No vacations together. No extras.

You on the other hand should tell her that this is now a marriage of convenience. You come first. Your hobbies. Your social life. Your interests. She’s not included in most of them - but when it comes to family events you lay out your expectations.

You live together but separate lives. You find your happiness in life. Without her.

You are honest with her. You are not cheating because it is an open marriage. And has been for decades but you were not informed. But now you are and are willing to take advantage of the opportunity. If she is unhappy she can do something about it.

But you are being honest with her - even though she was not honest with you.

And then tell your family. Not in a mean way but they should be aware of the truth. And if the family blows up it is not your fault. Please know that. Your wife will blame you. And when you leave the room when she starts this tirade - then she can talk to the wall.

Move to a separate bedroom. Bring some peace to your life.

Open your own bank account. Separate your credit cards. Cancel all joint accounts. Re-write your will.

She’s no longer your wife. She’s not your companion. Change the dynamics. Live and be happy. Your life. Your rules.

And do not allow her to play the victim. She never was and never will be the victim except in her own mind.

Bladerunner2054 posted 5/13/2019 07:53 AM

I agree with this. You don’t have to D her. But you do not have to fund her lifestyle either. You can make sure she has a roof over head and food. Medical insurance.

Beyond that - cut her off. No $. No vacations together. No extras.

You on the other hand should tell her that this is now a marriage of convenience. You come first. Your hobbies. Your social life. Your interests. She’s not included in most of them - but when it comes to family events you lay out your expectations.

You live together but separate lives. You find your happiness in life. Without her.

You are honest with her. You are not cheating because it is an open marriage. And has been for decades but you were not informed. But now you are and are willing to take advantage of the opportunity. If she is unhappy she can do something about it.

But you are being honest with her - even though she was not honest with you.

And then tell your family. Not in a mean way but they should be aware of the truth. And if the family blows up it is not your fault. Please know that. Your wife will blame you. And when you leave the room when she starts this tirade - then she can talk to the wall.

Move to a separate bedroom. Bring some peace to your life.

Open your own bank account. Separate your credit cards. Cancel all joint accounts. Re-write your will.

She’s no longer your wife. She’s not your companion. Change the dynamics. Live and be happy. Your life. Your rules.

And do not allow her to play the victim. She never was and never will be the victim except in her own mind.

This was going to be my suggestion.

Plus tell the world who she really is.

Bigheart2018 posted 5/13/2019 07:56 AM

Dear Moongazer,

Sorry, you are here, but you are in good hands. You will received some good advice to consider. I agree with “The1stWife”, cut her lifestyle to the bare minimum and live the remainder of your life to the fullest by totally focusing on yourself.

Best,
Bigheart

Buster123 posted 5/13/2019 08:44 AM

First I'm sorry that you had to join this club no one wants to be part of. If you cut her lifestyle to the bare minimum she may just file for D herself, I would sit her down and tell her she's got 30 seconds to give you a complete timeline of all her As otherwise you will blow up her world and EXPOSE her with ALL family and close friends and let the chips fall where they may, after she gives you the details (you will get a watered down version of just the one you could prove), go ahead and EXPOSE anyway, tell her you needed the support of loved ones to deal with her huge betrayal (she should apologize to them too), demand she gets tested for STDs (you should too), once you confirm who her AP is, inform the OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse) if any.

Your WW is a SERIAL CHEATER and has been exposing you to potentially life threatening STDs, your M has been a sham, honestly I would just file for D and have her served without warning and exposed her with All family and close friends, she would have until the D is final to show true remorse (not just regret), offer full on demand access to her phone and all electronic devices, commits to intense IC to find out her whys and offer a postnup (no alimony/spousal support and she doesn't touch your retirement) in your favor in case she cheats again in the future, otherwise just let D run its course and get out of infidelity. Keep posting frequently, this is a crucial moment and the collective wisdom of SI could help you go through this difficult situation.

Jduff posted 5/13/2019 09:57 AM

Moongazer, you have two things going for you that would provide you significant leverage. anoldlion pointed it out but I propose you go further and file that D. Let me clarify. Your WW is a narcissist and will fight tooth and nail to retain that "good wife" image to the family and friends, correct? What you have in your possession is evidence to the contrary. Divorce terms are always "negotiable". I think you can negotiate a much more favorable terms to your assets and retirement. It all depends how much your WW's "Susie home maker" image is worth to her, and generally you can twist a narcissists arm to your liking with a threat of exposure. Especially if it is backed with hard evidence.

Note: That twitter picture was posted on public domain. You didn't take it. You won't be the only one that possesses a copy.

Think about it. Talk to your attorney. Talk to a financial adviser to run some scenarios on what you think can "twist" out of your narc WW. See if that outlook appears better.

Just my suggestion. Call me an optimist. I just hate to think good people are painted into a corner by their waywards assholery without any options. There are always "options" in my book.

ChamomileTea posted 5/13/2019 10:06 AM

I plan to visit an attorney to see what my future looks like, if I divorce her, but I live in a 50/50 state so if we divorced, we’d have to sell the house, split my pension and assets equally, basically forcing me to live in some low rent apartment and probably un-retire to pay bills.

At the very minimum, even if you do decide not to leave, you might consider getting a medical power of attorney and new will drawn up. You might live decades still and not have any health problems, but I'm an older gal myself, and time is taking it's toll, right? I wouldn't want someone I couldn't trust making my decisions for me if I wasn't able to make them for myself.

This would mean bringing a new executor into your confidence, so give some thought to who's best equipped to handle it.

The1stWife posted 5/13/2019 10:43 AM

I’m sorry but I left out one critical piece of information.

If she wants to stay married demand a post nup. Tell her that it is important to your future together that you are protected from her cheating on you. Let her know it is not negotiable. If she wants to remain living in your home then she signs it.

The post nup is to protect your assets - pension, savings etc. they are to be excluded as marital assets and should you divorce she has no claim to those funds or assets.

She will fight you on this. Do not give in. Stand your ground. You need to protect yourself. And remove her name from any asset you can. I had all new life insurance taken out on my H while I planned for a D. I am the account holder. He can never change the beneficiary from Me & kids.

Again if she doesn’t like the “new marriage rules” she can live elsewhere.

And until there is a court order from a judge she can fend for herself. Period.

Dismayed2012 posted 5/13/2019 11:29 AM

What 'The1stWife' said (with highlights for emphasis and a bracketed [] word added).

"If she wants to stay married demand a post nup. Tell her that it is important to your future together that you are protected from her cheating on you. Let her know it is not negotiable. If she wants to remain living in your home then she signs it."

"The post nup is to protect your assets - pension, savings etc. they are to be excluded as marital assets and should you divorce she has no claim to those funds or assets."

"She will fight you on this. Do not give in. Stand your ground. You need to protect yourself. And remove her name from any asset you can. I had all new life insurance taken out on my H while I planned for a D. I am the account holder. He can never change the beneficiary from Me & kids."

"Again if she doesn’t like the “new marriage rules” she can live elsewhere."

"And until there is a court order from a judge she can fend for herself. Period."

"You don’t have to D her. But you do not have to fund her lifestyle either. You can make sure she has a roof over head and food. Medical insurance."

"Beyond that - cut her off. No $. No vacations together. No extras."

"You on the other hand should tell her that this is now a marriage of convenience. You come first. Your hobbies. Your social life. Your interests. She’s not included in most of them - but when it comes to family events you lay out your expectations."

"You live together but separate lives. You find your happiness in life. Without her."

"You are honest with her. You are not cheating because it is an open marriage. And has been for decades but you were not informed. But now you are and are willing to take advantage of the opportunity. If she is unhappy she can do something about it."

"But you are being honest with her - even though she was not honest with you."

"And then tell your family. Not in a mean way but they should be aware of the truth. And if the family blows up it is not your fault. Please know that. Your wife will blame you. And when you leave the room when she starts this tirade - then she can talk to the wall."

"Move [her] to a separate bedroom. Bring some peace to your life."

"Open your own bank account. Separate your credit cards. Cancel all joint accounts. Re-write your will."

"She’s no longer your wife. She’s not your companion. Change the dynamics. Live and be happy. Your life. Your rules."

"And do not allow her to play the victim. She never was and never will be the victim except in her own mind."

[This message edited by Dismayed2012 at 11:34 AM, May 13th (Monday)]

Robert22205https posted 5/13/2019 11:56 AM

Before negotiating a D or confronting her again, consider hiring a PI in order to obtain current evidence that may put you in a stronger bargaining position. Stuff she doesn't want her friend s, family, or church to Know.

For example, maybe she's had multiple affairs over many years. Or the identity of the OM may rock everyone's world.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 4:27 PM, May 13th (Monday)]

Moongazer posted 5/13/2019 20:07 PM

I survived another day and appreciate all comments and suggestions. Interesting exchange today with her.

She texted me from work and said “If that is me in the picture then someone committed a crime against me so you shouldn’t make me feel that your disgusted by me”.

So I replied “Ok, then we’ll go to the police and have them investigate”.

Long pause....then her reply “so you’re saying that I disgust you?” The rest of the day not one more word about involving the police. She’s used the “roofie” defense several times but then quickly changes the subject when I bring up the cops.

I’m leaning more and more towards divorce. I cannot see ever forgiving or loving this woman again, after her cheating and almost as bad, how she can watch me suffer through this crap again, with seemingly no remorse. An “open” marriage is a nonstarter. If I can figure out a way to make the finances work, I’ll probably move out, and on, to better things.

Marz posted 5/13/2019 20:44 PM

She's had it her way for so long she doesn't get why you don't just rugsweep it like in the past.

She's switched from lying to trying manipulation tactics.

You've got what you've got. At least it seems like you're out of the hopium phase.

Nice jib on your replies today by the way.

At this point a hard 180 would be best

[This message edited by Marz at 8:45 PM, May 13th (Monday)]

Ponus18 posted 5/13/2019 21:40 PM

It’s a shitty situation but you’ve already taken control by joining our community.

Already you have some options - of course no answer will be ideal, because your selfish WW has put you in this situation through no fault of your own. Repeat: No. Fault. Of. Yours.

I would take your time and not rush into a final decision. Mentally “try on” the options and see what fits best. My answer may not be yours.

I was also married to a world class narcissist. I too rug swept for the sake of my kids. Your WW sounds so much like mine. For me, I wouldn’t stay in the M no matter the financial impact. In fact I’ve had to pay enormous amounts of money to my cheater exWW. So sayeth the law. I could have probably retired by now otherwise. But, for me, I put my health first, feeling like if I stayed in a sham M, or accepted the reality that her cheating would never end, I would not survive it. The day after day worry and stress and checking up. The living a lie to pretend for my family and friends. If one thinks that one’s health would suffer under those circumstances, is there really a choice?

But that’s just me. Others may feel differently and that’s fine.

Do see a lawyer and get a full understanding of the law so. That you can make the best decision on the basis of the facts and not what you imagine are the facts.

Relatedly, echoing another poster here, I did find that I was able to use leverage during my negotiations more than once by threatening exposure - in my case threatening to call witnesses such as her APs. I remember the immediate change in her demeanor when we handed her our witness list and began discussing scheduling their depositions. Narcissists don’t like their phony acts exposed. That may be a weakness you can exploit too to get a better outcome if you decide to D.

Sending strength to you.

Western posted 5/14/2019 14:08 PM

you are wise regarding 'open marriage'. Open marriages should always be a NONSTARTER. If she could cheat on you like she has, could you imagine how many guys she would land if things opened up ? Guys who go down that road only screws themselves more.

Also, you forgave her 'for the family' 30 years ago. I am unsure what transpired then or how often she has repeated this but you seem to have an idea of who she was with this time. Do you ?

Unbroken78 posted 5/14/2019 17:25 PM

I would send a 1 word response to her text:


Liar.


Her next text...


Liar.


repeat until the point is made.

You sir, have a hard road ahead. Walk it proudly with your dignity in tact. You know the course. You are more than man enough to handle the business in front of you. Action will solve your problems.

Good luck.

nekonamida posted 5/14/2019 17:35 PM

Long pause....then her reply “so you’re saying that I disgust you?” The rest of the day not one more word about involving the police. She’s used the “roofie” defense several times but then quickly changes the subject when I bring up the cops.

My friend's stepmother was roofied once after a night out. Luckily she got home before it took full effect and she couldn't even stand up or barely move for hours. She wasn't roofied if she was able to put on a wig and pose for a camera.

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