Return to Forum List

Return to General

SurvivingInfidelity.com® > General

You are not logged in. Login here or register.

The Wfw

Pages: 1 · 2

Butforthegrace posted 5/10/2019 07:52 AM

In light of some crass comments on another thread about preventing a man from cheating by keeping his dick happy and his tummy filled, I was reminded of an article I read once in a women’s magazine, possibly Cosmo or Essence, discussing the concept of the “WFW” – the “well-fucked wife”. The gist was that a husband who wants to be sure his wife doesn’t philander ought to make it his point to service her often, and well, so she doesn’t have any, er, extracurricular cravings.

Countless pop songs have touched on this same topic. I’m reminded of that country hit from the 1970’s by Charlie Pride: “Kiss an angel good mornin’, and love ‘er like the Devil when you get back home.”

Sometimes there is a kernel of truth in these pop tropes. I recognize that cheaters must, in every case, make a decision to breach their wedding vows, which is a moral failure. I also recognize there are many kinds of affairs and a wide spectrum of the root causes that lead to an individual cheating. For example, my observation on SI is that many WW affairs come from a place where the wife is having a profound existential crisis. And there are some threads on here that reinforce a truth we all know: there are just some truly shitty people in the world. Shitty, selfish, entitled, awful people.

But do you think there is truth to the notion that at least some kinds of cheating is for the purpose of getting sexual fulfillment the cheater isn’t getting at home? The “emotionless infidelity” thread on “I Can Relate” is almost 100% BW’s talking about husbands who purchase the services of prostitutes. Some of these men are sex addicts, but I do know men who use prostitutes because their wives are not sexual and they feel this is a way of getting sexual fulfillment without “cheating” in an emotional way, which many men perceive would be a greater betrayal.

What about the WW who has sex with the hot trainer at the gym, or the teacher with the hot high school athlete, etc. In other words, I think there are plenty of anecdotes out there where it’s fairly clear the WW is having the sex with the AP because he’s hot and she desires sex with him. Would she do this if she were a “WFW”?

Darkness Falls posted 5/10/2019 07:57 AM

My ex was extremely attractive and I very much enjoyed having sex with him. That being said, my husband is and was a nice-looking man and we were having regular sex at the time I cheated. However, I still cheated with the ex, in part because I knew what sex with him was like. (To head off any speculation, it was not due to size. ) So it might be true in some cases but not all.

Unhinged posted 5/10/2019 08:09 AM

There is no justification for infidelity. That includes a lack of sex.

But do you think there is truth to the notion that at least some kinds of cheating is for the purpose of getting sexual fulfillment the cheater isn’t getting at home?
At best, this maybe "truth" for a cheater, but it's still a bullshit rationalization to break one's wedding vows. It's an excuse, and as we all know, excuses are like assholes (everyone's got one). At worst, it's just another form of blame-shifting, which cheaters are apt to use to justify their own selfish, shitty behavior.

ETA: If an unsatisfying sex-life was a valid reason to have an affair, I'd have had several.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 8:24 AM, May 10th (Friday)]

Butforthegrace posted 5/10/2019 08:56 AM

There is no justification for infidelity. That includes a lack of sex.

That dialectic between explaining a thing and excusing it. This thread is about explaining.

Anecdotally, every man I know who has cheated (which is only a handful) did it because he perceived he suffered from a "dead bedroom" at home and simply wanted to get his dick sucked. In each case, the man had zero intention of leaving his wife.

I know three women who cheated. In each case, it was an exit A and it was motivated by what the wife perceived to be a lack of love, respect, or contribution at home.

Gettingoveritall posted 5/10/2019 09:41 AM

Hey BFTG,

I get what you are saying here. The difficult question in the wake of cheating is "does it matter?" I think this ties in with the discussion of "once a cheater, always a cheater." What kind of cheater is a WS? And again, does it matter?

Is "your" cheater like the employee who has a financial crisis in their lives and steals money from their employer because they are desperate? Maybe they have always been an honest person and would never have stolen money prior to this, but medical bills or their spouse being laid off from their job has put them in a position of not being able to pay the mortgage. They could lose their house.

Is their stealing justified? No. Their employer has every right to fire them and press charges. People may feel sympathy for that employee, but we all recognize that stealing was wrong. If the employee would have talked to their employer about their difficulty, or taken other steps to try and get help, maybe they could have avoided losing their house.

We can understand that person, and maybe even have some sympathy for them, but in the end, they made a bad choice to fix a problem.

Compared to an employee who steals because they want more money to buy stuff, who steals because it gives them a thrill, who steals because "my boss is a jerk/idiot," who is universally condemned. Even then we may understand--who doesn't like having more money or stuff? But we don't have sympathy for them because they were taking the easy path to more stuff by stealing.

In the end though, does it matter to the employer? He/she has been taken advantage of and has suffered a loss through no fault of their own. Maybe the employer was a jerk or an idiot, but that is no excuse to steal. Only another thief would agree that it is ok to steal if your boss was a jerk. How much blame do we place on the employer?

Which of these two, if you had to pick, deserves the label "once a thief, always a thief?"

The problem is figuring out which type of "thief" your WS is. Did they cheat because something was truly missing in their relationship and they felt desperate, or just because they could?

And, in the end, does it really matter? We can all be better spouses. All of us have room to improve. Nothing excuses cheating. I'm all for understanding motivations and finding explanations, but after infidelity that exercise can feel like blameshifting (I know that is not what you are doing) and excusing behavior (not what you are doing).

[This message edited by Gettingoveritall at 9:44 AM, May 10th (Friday)]

hikingout posted 5/10/2019 09:42 AM

I think the problem is when we know someone who did it you are most likely to take what they say for face value. They are a cheater who is not going to be interested in sharing deeper reasons and many do not even know what those are. There are such cases of rug sweeping. You are just going to get an excuse from them that makes their decision seem palatable to you. It’s because there is a societal belief those things are true that they are often used as an excuse. Yes there are many men and women who have a dead bedroom. So it’s believable, but in this case In a public way you are going to give the excuse as the reason to save face.

That’s not to say that I don’t think people cheat for sex, they definitely do. But they do it because it’s more convenient than dealing with the problem a different way.

I will tell you two personal antedotes. One, in my first marriage I mostly divorced due to sexual incompatibility. There were other problems too but I would have stayed to fix them. I could not get this man to have sex more than once a week at best and he would not give me oral sex at all. He was my first an only when we married and I just knew this wasn’t sustainable for me. We went to counseling with the pastor, I read books, and eventually I asked for a divorce. There aren’t hard feelings. I run into him and his family from time to time and am friends with him and some of his family in Facebook. It just didn’t work out. Period.

Second marriage. Sex daily the first five years and after still a solid 3-5 times a week. And probably tmi but he is the best oral sex provider I could ever hope for, and believe that is an understatement. He is who got cheated on.

I know you want to probably throw my case out for your argument because I probably fall under existential crisis more than anything, but I don’t think I am the outlier I think I am more the norm. The AP for example, yes claimed dead bedroom. But - I knew that wasn’t altogether true by other things he said. AND - I talked to him enough to know he was feeling angst over his upcoming milestone birthday, he needed lots of validation, could not bear the hint of any criticism, and had terrible foo issues. The makeup of the cheater is far deeper than the simple explanations society tries to put on it to make themselves feel safer, and far darker and deeper than they would be sharing with others when the excuses are conveniently believable.

I hate to call him out but he will likely have posted before I get this typed up - but Rideitout is one of the most sexually driven people By his own admission. He hasn’t cheated. A more fucked yo person would have used that to fuel his entitlement to go out and do what he freely admits he craves. But nope, doesn’t do it. One of the most verbal people here about how sexually motivated he is and how sexually incompatible they were before the A and he has no affairs on his record. And the same for you butforthegrace- you are sexually motivated Nd have had it blatantly stuck in your face - you said no.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:48 AM, May 10th (Friday)]

Thissucks5678 posted 5/10/2019 10:04 AM

My WH had no sexual complaints whatsoever. He lied to the COW and said we had sex once a year - but it was a lie. My WH had an affair because he was a conflict avoidant (so he resented me for bullshit reasons that I had no clue about), because he had low self esteem (so he didn’t hear my compliments, but when a young girl threw herself at him - all of a sudden he was like OMG, this girl likes me! Maybe I am hot stuff after all), because he was selfish (everything in our marriage had always been about him), because he was probably a little bored (with three kids and no babysitter, life gets a little boring sometimes) and to top it all off because his wife was distracted for the first fucking time in their whole marriage with a family crisis. I still gave him all of the sex he could possibly want while not getting off myself because he WAS selfish in that too, but I was a little depressed at the time dealing with my family’s crisis.

It doesn’t matter how well fucked anyone is. I thought it did. I thought I could affair proof my marriage by always being up for whatever and I am so sick of reading about this. It is the one thing I had always read and heard and was preached to by men. So I did it faithfully and I got cheated on. His affair wasn’t about the sex - it was about the attention, they barely even had sex. It was about the ego trip and the words and all of the bullshit she fed to him.

I’m sorry for the rant. I’m so sick of reading the same things over and over. Beyoncé got cheated on, Jennifer Aniston got cheated on, Jennifer Garner got cheated on, Eva Longoria, Ali Landry, Chris Pratt, the list could go on and on. Beautiful, rich, etc. Cheaters cheat because they want to and they have an opportunity. You can do everything in your power to prevent it, but until they fix themselves, it is out of your control. The only thing I could have done differently is be a mind reader. I tried my damndest to be the best wife and mom possible but it’s impossible when you have no idea what is going on in someone else’s head.

Dismayed2012 posted 5/10/2019 10:11 AM

We can ruminate and debate the dimorphics of the sexes all day long but when it's all boiled down cheaters, regardless of their excuses are 'just some truly shitty..., selfish, entitled, awful people.' That's society's real 'profound existential crisis'.

nothisfriend posted 5/10/2019 10:13 AM

We had a dead bedroom, he hadn't touched me in a very long time. I didn't cheat.

NeverHealed posted 5/10/2019 10:14 AM

the “well-fucked wife”

Richard Pryor had a routine. He said, “If after you get done fucking your woman, she wants to talk about the stock market, you got some more fucking to do.”

I told my wife that. She laughed, but she did not reject the sentiment.

Rustylife posted 5/10/2019 10:21 AM

It is my observation on this site that reconciling husbands find it much more easier to accept a WW who cheated to meet her perceived emotional needs rather than any sexual needs. Ironically enough, that emotional disconnection makes the WS pull away more and makes the reconciliation effort more likely to fail. Those who hold resentments against their spouse or are disconnected to a point where they cheat don't want to work on the marriage.

My XWW's affair was about the ego kibbles and the resentments she held against me. Sex was a part of it like it is in any new relationship. If it was purely sexual, she would've begged for a second chance. But the way she felt about me at the end, there was just no coming back from that.

[This message edited by Rustylife at 10:22 AM, May 10th (Friday)]

3greatkids posted 5/10/2019 10:21 AM

My WS cheated the entire time we dated, got engaged, were married for over 20 years. For him I wasn’t sexual enough/ and was damaged goods from a childhood of sexual abuse and sexual assault as a teen. So it would be easy to sign off on the sex draught justification.

But he also cheated on his sexually amazing affair partner with another, and he was also having the sub par sex with me as well throughout all of his affairs. If sexual satisfaction prevents cheating, why would he cheat on his oh so satisfying affair partners?

He cheats because he’s a selfish, entitled, shitty person who refuses to live in reality, confront feelings, and have adult conversations and live a life with consequences.

[This message edited by 3greatkids at 10:22 AM, May 10th (Friday)]

Rideitout posted 5/10/2019 10:31 AM

If sexual satisfaction prevents cheating, why would he cheat on his oh so satisfying affair partners?

You are all too black/white on this issue. Seat belts don't "prevent death" in car wrecks either. In fact, I'm pretty sure with a minimum of searching, I can find an instance where a seat belt CAUSED a death. But, statistically, you're far more likely to die riding around without a seat belt on than you are if you wear one. That's the only point, try to fill your partners needs/wants and desires. If you don't, you're increasing the chances of an A. That seems pretty darn self-explanatory to me, and also rather inarguable. Yes, there are instances where people do "everything right" and still have an A. But that wasn't me, I did a lot of the "wrong thing". Still do. But don't lie to yourself, you leave a husband with unmet sexual "needs" or a wife with unmet emotional "needs"; guess what, there are plenty of people willing to fill those needs to get what they want. No, it shouldn't be this way, and you shouldn't have to worry about it. Just like me being a "good driver" means "I don't need a seatbelt", right? The message I'm sending, between these two threads is simple, no, it's not your fault, but yes, there are things that you can actively do that increase/decrease the chances of a partner cheating on you. Ignore them if you wish; no skin off my back, but that doesn't make it any less true.

forthelifeofme posted 5/10/2019 10:38 AM

I will say this post triggered me in a bad way… something I sign up for when I read here sometimes. My CH and I had an amazing sex life! Sex often and filled with sex talk, imagination and fantasy talk. fun, naughty banter throughout our existence. We have been married going on 35 years. Shit hit the fan 5 years ago finding out who he truly was. First PA was after 10 years of marriage. He actually is a giant flirt but thought it mostly was harmless. Hindsight shows many EAs and other PAs. I figure there is a lot I don’t know about. I battle the confusion of how was I not enough? How was that life not enough? I know, I know, it isn’t my fault but AAAARRRRGGGG! sigh…

hikingout posted 5/10/2019 10:40 AM

I disagree, RIO.

You can decrease your chances of divorce by trying to make sure your partners needs are reasonably met. But those chances only decrease if both people do that. It means both people are invested in the relationship and want things to work.

An affair can only be prevented by the person having it. I know that gives you no safety belt but there is no other truth.

You say your wife had an exit affair. It means she wanted a divorce. She should have just asked for that instead of cheating on you. It is very black and white. I believe I had an exit affair too. But I could have been having a good marriage if I chose to engage. If your wife chose to engage would you have taken her seriously?

Gettingoveritall posted 5/10/2019 10:43 AM

But don't lie to yourself, you leave a husband with unmet sexual "needs" or a wife with unmet emotional "needs"; guess what, there are plenty of people willing to fill those needs to get what they want. No, it shouldn't be this way, and you shouldn't have to worry about it. Just like me being a "good driver" means "I don't need a seatbelt", right? The message I'm sending, between these two threads is simple, no, it's not your fault, but yes, there are things that you can actively do that increase/decrease the chances of a partner cheating on you. Ignore them if you wish; no skin off my back, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I agree that this is the standard we should all adhere to in dealing with our spouses. It is wise counsel.

Unfortunately for me (and many other BSs on here), Our WSs were black holes of "needs" that could never be filled. Any efforts we put forward to fill those "needs" were dismissed as "they are just doing that because they have to. They don't really mean it."

But your advice here is spot on. In some number of marriages it would decrease/eliminate the chances of infidelity.

NeverHealed posted 5/10/2019 11:10 AM

there is no other truth

Wow. HO turned oracle.

Some people might make a perfectly logical decision. Terrible marriage, SAHM, no job, standing in the community, lifestyle, wants the kids 100% of the time, etc. POS husband on the couch. Cheating is the best option. Fair to husband? She might think so. Fair to OBS, if there is one? Well, a little harder, that. But, that's AP's problem.

Reece posted 5/10/2019 11:14 AM

I think everyone is different. Different people, different needs. My wife's emotional needs were and are being met at home. Her affair was based on her perceived physical needs. The fact that her affair had no emotional connections made our reconciliation much easier but there is obviously two sides to that sword.

crazyblindsided posted 5/10/2019 11:37 AM

My WS cheated the entire time we dated, got engaged, were married for over 20 years. For him I wasn’t sexual enough/ and was damaged goods from a childhood of sexual abuse and sexual assault as a teen. So it would be easy to sign off on the sex draught justification.
But he also cheated on his sexually amazing affair partner with another, and he was also having the sub par sex with me as well throughout all of his affairs. If sexual satisfaction prevents cheating, why would he cheat on his oh so satisfying affair partners?

He cheats because he’s a selfish, entitled, shitty person who refuses to live in reality, confront feelings, and have adult conversations and live a life with consequences.

I can echo this word for word including the sexual abuse part. We still averaged 2-3x a week when he had his A's and that STILL was not enough.

My WS actually did cheat on MOW because we had an open M at that time she was not aware of. When I dropped that bombshell her head exploded.

hikingout posted 5/10/2019 12:06 PM

No Oracle - there is always another option. Divorce. Speak up. State your boundaries. Anything other than fucking someone else. I mean come on no one needs to do that regardless of their situation. Forgive me for not blaming my husband for my lousy decisions. And forgive me for not wanting RIO to be blamed for his wife’s poor coping. Sorry not sorry.

For what it’s worth what RIO is stating is what marriage should be. It’s stuff I say often. It will inevitably falter from time to time. It doesn’t excuse cheating. I have a lot of empathy for both RIO and his wife. From my standpoint our situations were very similiar. He is keeping himself from healing if he continues to blame himself. That is separate from the fact I cheer him in for going forward and trying to be a better husband and have a better relationship with the woman he loves.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:28 PM, May 10th (Friday)]

Pages: 1 · 2

Return to Forum List

Return to General

© 2002-2019 SurvivingInfidelity.com ®. All Rights Reserved.     Privacy Policy