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I have read every post on this website now and only one WW

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Loukas posted 5/2/2019 15:17 PM

But... and this is just a hypothetical... what if feelings suck?
Right!?

Still doesnít change their existence, except in a hypothetical.

Sadly, some do suck. Some not as much. Others not at all. But without any of them, this beautiful (even if it doesnít feel like that now) human existence doesnít exist.

Notthevictem posted 5/2/2019 15:55 PM

Yeah, but if I can love a cat, how valuable is love?

Mwahahahaha

emergent8 posted 5/2/2019 15:56 PM

FloridaMan - I don't think it's ever just as simple as "just sex". It might be a physical affair (as an opposed to PA/EA - but that doesn't mean that your wife was in the affair just for sex).

I know very few/no men who've cheated who would also say they have a "loving partner ready to please" at home.

Not only is this untrue and unhelpful, but its triggering/insulting/inflammatory to a LOT of us BWs (I can tell you with CERTAINTY that it was absolutely NOT the situation in my case). I also agree with Sewardak that it comes VERY close to saying that if our husbands had affairs it must be our fault for not putting out more/performing better. BTW, it's no better when you switch it around to WW who have grievances about their lack of emotional connection. These may be the "socially acceptable" ways that Waywards justify their affairs to themselves but we all know its bullshit and not a reason to cheat. Since when do trust Waywards (specifically those who are apparently involved in ongoing or serial affairs), to have accurate, non-foggy, insight into their real reasons. Most former Waywards that post here and have done the work, readily admit that during their affairs, they had rewritten their marital histories.

As an aside, RIO, you speak about these "friends" frequently. Why do you hang out with so many unrepentant cheaters IRL? I cant help but think that it's skewing your view of what's normal. With respect, and I hope you don't take this personally (I don't think you will), your friends sound like assholes.

I don't know if I've responded to any of your posts on here, but I've wanted to respond to many and had to stop myself/talk myself out of it- the way you write sometimes tends to elicit a strong knee-jerk reaction from me. You tend to generalize a lot about male/female dynamics (imho incorrectly) and assume that your experience/outlook is representative of most men (or at least Betrayed men). The weird thing is that when you speak about your own experiences, I often find myself empathizing/agreeing with you. I wish you would do that more.


he could have been the 2nd coming of John Holmes in bed.

Hot damn, dude. Will millennials reading here get that reference?

NTV - I'm an (early) millennial and I had to look it up. My first thought was, "isn't that the Holmes on Homes guy?"


Loukas posted 5/2/2019 16:03 PM

Yeah, but if I can love a cat, how valuable is love?
Mwahahahaha
Lol, this day in age? Thousands depending on what operation the vet figures itíll need. Around my neck of the woods? A nickel for the .22 bullet...

Notthevictem posted 5/2/2019 16:19 PM

Yeah, when people go 'millenials wouldn't get this reference...' I generally tune put the following age discrimination monologue in favor of planning what kinda card I'm gonna leave of their tombstone when the croak 30 years before I do.

ibonnie posted 5/2/2019 16:35 PM

Yeah, but if I can love a cat, how valuable is love?†
Mwahahahaha

Lol, this day in age? Thousands depending on what operation the vet figures itíll need. Around my neck of the woods? A nickel for the .22 bullet...

I just spent $4,000+ on my cat for one night in an animal hospital, before we decided we just didn't have $15-20k to spend on treatment with a poor prognosis.

I loved my cat dearly and miss him so much.


he could have been the 2nd coming of John Holmes in bed.


Hot damn, dude. Will millennials reading here get that reference?


NTV - I'm an (early) millennial and I had to look it up.††My first thought was, "isn't that the Holmes on Homes guy?"

Wasn't Mark Wahlberg's character in Boogie Nights based on him? On an unrelated note, I don't know any regular woman that would want John Holmes's reincarnated penis in bed. Anyone woman I know that has slept with a very well-endowed guy has usually described it as being somewhat painful and difficult to deal with -- gotta go slow, lots of lube, limited positions.

[This message edited by ibonnie at 4:40 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)]

Rideitout posted 5/2/2019 17:30 PM

As an aside, RIO, you speak about these "friends" frequently. Why do you hang out with so many unrepentant cheaters IRL? I cant help but think that it's skewing your view of what's normal. With respect, and I hope you don't take this personally (I don't think you will), your friends sound like assholes.

I work with them, I have no choice. I avoid it as much as possible, but it's a requirement for my job that I socialize at least some with the people I work with. I now (post A) absolutely dread it, but it's how I make a living so.. It's just part of the suck of my job.

BTW, it's no better when you switch it around to WW who have grievances about their lack of emotional connection.

I understand it may be offensive to say/think that. But I quoted the above so that I could turn the lens to me and not generalize. I didn't provide the emotional connection that my wife sought. No sugar coating it, I just didn't. Did that mean she needed to have an A? Of course not. Could I have prevented it if I'd understood what she wanted and needed emotionally from me better and provided it? Yes, I'm pretty sure I could have/would have prevented it if I had done those things before. Now, before anyone gets all bent out of shape, this is NOT the case for everyone. I don't even know if it's even a little bit common, but it's the case for me. The A isn't my fault, but I certainly could have filled her needs better and, IMHO, it's likely the A wouldn't have happened. It's difficult to say that, even more difficult to think it, but, for me personally, I'm pretty sure it's true. It does NOT mean it's my fault, it does mean I could have done more to prevent it though. And I'll leave it there because I don't want to offend others.

And there we have it, an emotional rationale safe guarded by logical decisions that create incorrect outcomes. More than anyone, RIO, you need to discover your emotions. Despite what you may believe, they are doing more of the driving than youíd even care acknowledge.

That's possible. It just means I need to redouble my efforts to kill them off. And what about that outcome do you think it incorrect? I can tell you, it's not always incorrect, I've been taken advantage of by friends before. It's also not always correct, but it's not worth the effort to figure out. I just operate under the "he's my friend for the time being until I'm not longer useful to him" assumption. It's almost always proven to be true.

I think (better than most) understand that it's possible to like and/or love someone and not trust them.

I agree with this. Also, we have to define "friend" here. I think my definition of it is FAR more narrow than most here, especially with a statement like this which to me reads "yes, I like you, but you'll stab me in the back professionally the first chance you get". That's not a "real friend" to me. That's the guys I work with, I get along well with them, we have a lot of laughs together (or used to, pre-A). Would look forward to seeing them when we'd travel together. But I had absolutely no illusions that they wouldn't stab me with all their might the moment they saw any opportunity to climb the corporate ladder, or, if we were both pursuing the same woman, would stop at nothing to "win" over me. That's not what I consider a friend, it's what I consider someone who's company I enjoy(ed). So perhaps it's not different, it's just that a greatly narrow the definition of what friendship is to me. It's trust, it's caring, and it's not taking advantage of a situation for your own personal gain. And that's exceedingly rare, at least for me personally.

Here is something Iíve learnt from my Nerdy Trekky friends. They all aspire to be Spock. Like somehow a robotic state were we all drone on through our one dimensional utopia will free us from our suffering existence. But even poor Spock was half human and all you Trekkies werenít even born with that level of grace. Nope, full human, how tragic.

Indeed, tragic. Here's the tragedy, I know I do have emotions. And if I let them to the front of my mind, I realize pretty quickly that I have 100 negative emotions for each positive one. They are a terrible burden; fear, uncertainty, doubt, working from an emotional basis with no grounding in facts or rationality.. It's an awful and terrifying place to go for me because it's just so overwhelmingly awful. So I turn it off, and yes, I do envy the "Spock character" (or really, more correctly Vulcan mentality) because they've controlled their emotions to the point where they no longer have any bearing on their decision making process. I wish I could be like that, and I aspire to be like that. Let me tell you, working from an "emotional basis" on d-day? I may have wound up in prison for the rest of my life. It was logic that pulled me back. And it's always logic that "comes the rescue" when I'm in difficult or personally trying situations. Emotions really do nothing but escalate or make already difficult situations more difficult. It's entirely possible to love someone with logic, I know, because I do it. Throw that logic out the window, and nothing is left, why not love the hot girl handing out shots at the bar? My emotional brain tells me "that'd be fun, go for it", where my logical brain steps in and says "But you'd hurt other people, you made a vow, it's not worth it, do the cost/benefit analysis". I can say, in my life, all the worst decisions I've made have had some deep emotional connection for me, all the best have been based on logic and reasoning.


Loukas posted 5/2/2019 18:19 PM

I can say, in my life, all the worst decisions I've made have had some deep emotional connection for me, all the best have been based on logic and reasoning.
Yeah, Iím going to call bullshit on that. But I donít know you, so what do I know. However that is exactly the response anyone who thinks like you would give.

ďAnyone who thinks like youĒ = They are smarter than emotions. Emotions are weak.

Which ironically is about as dumb of a statement an intelligent person can make.

As NTV so eloquently put it, ďwhat if feelings suck?Ē

Maybe RIO, it would be worthwhile to ask NTV if heís ever journaled, and why?

Anyway, continue your efforts to kill off your emotions...or as anyone with any intelligence would say, live in denial.

Truth is, Iíd like to argue your flawed points with you. For years many members here have tried. The unfortunate reality is this, as long as you think your smarter than emotion, any logical counterpoints carry no weight because you simply deny feelings. Itís like arguing with a flat earther that the world is round. Until they choose to believe in something beyond their own beliefs, nothing can ever be accomplished.

Just a little food for thought until the next time...do you ever wonder why so many people respond and usually disagree with your posts? And, do you think you are smarter than the collective, or is it possible the collective is trying to tell you something you donít see?

[This message edited by Loukas at 6:21 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)]

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