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Husbands chosen for reliability = plan B

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NotTheManIwas posted 5/2/2019 14:21 PM

Heysoos, cocoplus5nuts, are you sure that you don't coach PUA's for a living?

The female is going to choose whomever she deems to be the most suitable mate. Therefore, the male has to present himself in the best possible light.

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 2:22 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)]

cheatingwho posted 5/2/2019 14:41 PM

Mods, change the name of the site to “Surviving Unethical Non-monogamy”!!

I didn't use the word “fidelity.”

But here”s what Webster says about “infidelity”: marital disloyalty, adultery.

While you have your dictionary out, look up “pedant.”

Umm way to not actually talk about anything I said. I wasn't being a pedant. I simply said it's possible to still be honest and loyal to your partner and be promiscuous. Your comments assumed promiscuity equaled cheating.

KingRat posted 5/2/2019 14:46 PM

Yes, there is. Jealousy, I assume you're talking about the male, keeps other potential mates away, ensuring guy#1 will have more offspring than guy #2. It's not just about procreating. It's also about procreating more than the other guy. More of my gene's multiplied than yours makes me the winner. And, again, I'm talking about the lizard brain here. Why do you think males of other species chase other males away?

You're right. I should have edited it because the message I was trying to convey was in regards to sexual insecurity. Jealousy, as you explained, is an evolutionary driver.

Evolution can't answer the question of why it still bothers guy #1 after guy #2 has been successfully dispatched. This goes to the question you presented. Why does guy #1--who by all accounts should feel like the he "won" in the competition between him and the AP (AP's gone, no pregnancy)--still feel like he lost or is "Plan B"?

I personally believe because it is nurture, not nature, is what defines masculinity for a particular culture. For better or for worse, sexual prowess is a very high-prioritized masculine trait in our culture. So by desiring sex with another man--despite not wanting anything more than that--still has the effect of emasculation. IMHO, that is why a guy (very attractive physically, big man parts, great provider, awesome companion, etc.) who is and was always Plan A, still feels like Plan B.

The female is going to choose whomever she deems to be the most suitable mate. Therefore, the male has to present himself in the best possible light.

In higher intelligent species, such as apes and dolphins, there is a high amount of coercive sex. Obviously, rape isn’t a preferred nomenclature but that’s essentially what it is. Access to reproductive rights is the same as access to food and water. Our closest ancestors are guilty of this.

[This message edited by KingRat at 3:21 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)]

Striver posted 5/2/2019 16:29 PM

Sexual insecurity happens even after the rival has been dispatched because the man's mission in life has been put into doubt.

Men have to become men, become something other than what they were born with, to get sex. This is nearly always true. Women do not have to become something other, to find some role of value, to get sex. They are valuable for that as born.

Infidelity makes the man less sure that what he is doing to be a man is of actual value perceived value to the woman.

Striver posted 5/2/2019 16:31 PM

I was always Plan B for my ex. Used strictly for provisioning until the guy she really wanted committed to her. Now she can double dip on resources from two men. Machivellian but effective.

rambler posted 5/2/2019 20:58 PM

Reliable is a bit insulting. Basically sounds like you settled and do not love, value and respect the husband.

It is not about the sex many people have not married the best they had. There are more factors than sex.

However a physical affair changes that as the betrayed feels the other factors are now secondary.

Unbroken78 posted 5/2/2019 21:57 PM

You can't negotiate your way to desire.

You can't trigger a woman's lust by washing dishes, cleaning house, paying bills, or working a steady job.


It's normal to want to be desired and it's absolutely normal to want to be lusted after.


No man in history, ever achieved this by being "nice" or doing lots of housework.


Understand what triggers the "I want to rip your clothes off, throw my entire life away, and be yours forever" feeling in women...it ain't being "nice/reliable/house work/provider".


cheatingwho posted 5/2/2019 22:26 PM

Women do not have to become something other, to find some role of value, to get sex. They are valuable for that as born.

Excuse me, but what on Earth makes you think that? Can you honestly say you know a think about how women are actually raised? Do you know what it's likely to have you entire worth to society be based on your appearance? To be told you have to be a certain weight? Dress a certain way, do your hair a certain way to be attractive. Hell I can't even begin to tell you the amount of times I was told to smile more, to dress more feminine, to stop playing "like a boy" which really meant stop climbing trees and playing tag with the neighborhood kids. Hell I was taught to be a "strong woman" don't tell your husband your emotions because then you aren't attractive to them anymore. I guarantee I am not the only one who was raised like this. Our entire society tells all women how they have to be. I have asked my partners if anyone ever told them any of that kinda stuff growing up. About how they had to smile more, be more friendly, etc. The answer was a resounding no!

cheatingwho posted 5/2/2019 22:29 PM

You can't trigger a woman's lust by washing dishes, cleaning house, paying bills, or working a steady job.


It's normal to want to be desired and it's absolutely normal to want to be lusted after.


No man in history, ever achieved this by being "nice" or doing lots of housework.


Understand what triggers the "I want to rip your clothes off, throw my entire life away, and be yours forever" feeling in women...it ain't being "nice/reliable/house work/provider".

A bet you that if you offered to do the dishes for an overworked mother of three who has been dealing with a toddler with the flu, a baby who is teething, and a five year old who has too much energy and won't play outside you would get some lusty appreciation after all the kids are safely in bed.

Northerngal posted 5/3/2019 04:49 AM

I’m with cheatingwho - foreplay starts at the coffee maker. Nothing like being ignored, not called or texted, all day and then being groped at 8pm, then called a bitch because you don’t get immediately turned on by this manly man.

Partners should help each other, it’s much sexier. If it’s the dishes, laundry, carpool - it’s just showing kindness.

NotTheManIwas posted 5/3/2019 08:32 AM

foreplay starts at the coffee maker

(male brain peek advisory) Ladies...tell us. I know, I know, telling us detracts from the authenticity of the effort. I've heard so many times "if I have to tell you, then I don't know if you really mean it." Here's a clue; fucking tell me. Here's my reaction to that, "seriously? I can fuckin' do that." "And, Imma be the best at it." "Imma make the best cup damn of coffee for her and make her fuckin' love me for it."

Authenticity? What's more authentic than a man scrambling to please his girl? How 'bout you you give our effort and intentions due credit.

ETA: Northerngal, you already know that I love your posts. yes???

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 8:38 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]

Northerngal posted 5/3/2019 08:44 AM

If we all shared a peek inside our brains, it would go a long way. If wh had told me he was anxious about his businesses, his ability to maintain our lifestyle, etc, maybe he wouldn’t have ended up with his dick in some moped’s mouth. Apparently she was a good listener, but seriously, how often did she get a chance to speak? Her ears weren’t obstructed ffs. Also, what he told her was how awesome he was, wealthy, how her being with him would legitimize her professionally. Wtf. She was as good a listener as I was when he lied. He just wanted to avoid being seen as weak. Ironic.

Had he shown me vulnerability we could have avoided making our problems bigger. Communicate, people. Truth is reliability.

hikingout posted 5/3/2019 08:47 AM

Could not agree more. Had I taken some time to really evaluate what was happening inside of me and articulated it to my husband - we would be in such a different boat. Instead, I felt pain, ignored the source and forged on in making that pain feel miniscule in the face of the pain after the affair. It was like having a scratch and deciding to take a knife and make it wider and bigger. Stupid.

Brennan87 posted 5/3/2019 09:06 AM

Carefully,

I don't think we can generalize what gets a woman going. I think it differs based on the woman and the situation.

In my situation, I was the romancer (queue puking) early in our relationship. Little love notes put in her suitcase when she traveled. Little post it ntes on the mirror on occasion. Flowers delivered, surprise romantic trips to B&Bs the playful sneak up behind her at the sink and kiss her neck, the whole nine years. As we settled into our mature (or so I thought) marriage these tapered in frequency and were replaced with 50% of household chores, helping with dishes, vacumning, laundry, blah, blah, blah. I didn't enough these, who does. But they were done out of love.
These were never enough and were taken for granted, I didn't fold laundry right and put it away correctly. The dishes never got put away timely, blah, blah blah.
What does she miss now? Not the chore sharing, the little notes, the romantic gestures.
I had to circle back to her acts of love. :)

NotTheManIwas posted 5/3/2019 09:13 AM

(queue puking)

Brennan, don't you dare marginalize your effort. This kinda' shit matters.

hikingout posted 5/3/2019 09:24 AM

Brennan - that resonates for me. For a long time I showed my love through acts of service. Through this entire thing on thing I learned. I don't think my husband gives much stock at all to a clean house, especially if what makes it messy is that my clothes are on the floor. LOL. It's funny, we tend to model marriage based on how it was modeled to us. My mom cooked and cleaned and packed my dads lunch. I learned the hard way, that's not marriage or love. That's just chores.

But, I think the part that resonated is that people can't guess. Talk. Say. Don't expect your partner to know. And, definitely foreplay starts in the morning and continues through the day. I think both sexes can appreciate that - anticipation is always a big key I think.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:40 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]

numb&dumb posted 5/3/2019 09:50 AM

I had a thought. . .

In talking with the Mrs. about this last night one thing that came up was that to a BW, who is in R, reliability tends to be much more valuable/sexier to said BW than it was prior.

As much as we don't know what we got until it's gone I think the above has a lot to do with that.

Further the Mrs. told me that be being reliable did not directly make her lust after me, but if that was missing she likely would not allow herself to feel that way towards me. It is a pre-req not a direct link. I think that part gets missed by a lot of men.

Reliability comes first. Creates the framework that allows that lust. It allows the emotional connection and loving actions to register as such which may or may not lead to desire.

She was saddened that I told her that I feel that was used against me during her A. She corrected me by saying that her A had nothing to do with me. My reliability did not cause her to cheat it was simply a non-factor. It still hurts both of us to know that good old reliable me (in the unhealthy way I was pre-Dday) died on Dday.

I am reliable, but no longer as a detriment to myself. I think on my own without my co-dependence driving my behavior.

Yeah even years out I forget that sometimes

As a guy the fact the desire begins at the coffee pot is counter-intuitive to me. It so loosely tied I don't even see them as related. Especially if you are like me and can't stand the delay. I just think I am making coffee. I don't think that by making coffee 14 hours later my W might want to have sex. By that point I've already made coffee for the next day too. So . . .Further the day might start that way, but too many things occur outside my control that can derail that. I honestly doubt many women think that "He made coffee (insert other domestic things here). In 14 hours I want him jump my bones. . .oh look (enter life). Then totally forgets the thought until he brings up sex later. When the W head is in a different and more than likely a non-sexy place." The maybe, maybe not causes me to not see the correlation as more often than not, there is none.

Just musing about how my male brain works.

OptionedOut posted 5/3/2019 10:05 AM

Oh, RideItOut....

Here's a virtual drink, a steak and lobster dinner with a bottle of the 5-star restaurant's finest, a ticker tape parade (searches for more kudos) Your words sing to me!

This!

So much THIS!

Being chosen because of stability or passing down good genes, finances, that you're a good person or honest, that you are safe...while they lie, and risk our health, while they long to be with someone else (fantasy or not) while we're home doing the hard work, while they want someone else sexually, want to be there for someone else, while they are kind to them and cruel to us then there's no other way to put it. The BS IS an option.

Freddie Mercury said it best. "Don't be someone's background noise."

[This message edited by OptionedOut at 10:19 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]

OptionedOut posted 5/3/2019 10:16 AM

Brennan I put notes in his suitcase, pieces of his favorite candy. I made his favorite meals without saying a word when I knew he had a tough day. It was a high to make him laugh, smile. I loved to drive him completely wild with the best sex I could offer. And then, along came Uncle Fester in drag. And she wore lipstick and combed her hair. And the fantasy girls, all in a row with wife on the end. On the bench, because she was old reliable. Eff that noise!

CheatingWho It starts at the coffee maker (stir a little sugar in my cream, so to speak). Sure. It's the nice things. But it's also about the kind things. It's about knowing YOU are the one your mate desires and would do nothing to jeopardize what you two share. THAT is sexy as hell to me.

Unbroken Yep. WH thinks that if he fetches a tissue whenever I sneeze now that THIS action proves I'm his first girl, the one he desires about all others.
I want a mate. Not a butler. A best friend with the best benefits and let's overcome the great, the good, the bad like no one's business life partner. Not a cabana boy.

ETA: DomesticTourist - I swear, you took the words right out of my head. It's like a doppelganger post LOL!

[This message edited by OptionedOut at 10:24 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]

stolenyears posted 5/3/2019 10:39 AM

OptionedOut, I totally get this...

On the bench, because she was old reliable. Eff that noise!

Yes, I was Steady Eddie. I was reliable like a rock. My even keel way of life, instead of being an asset for my wife to cherish, became something she resented, even though she never told me. I can't hear what she doesn't say, so all along I thought things were good. Being a reliable, steady provider, good parent to our kids, making life choices with our success that allowed her to be a SAHM, and was a way for her to have her cake and eat it too. Hurts to think about how those things that were taken for granted were all traded in for some ego kibbles, but that brokenness is all about her.

I am still reliable, but the one thing that has changed dramatically is that I don't do things expecting anything in return. I think the things mentioned above about getting coffee, doing the laundry, the dishes, etc., those are all great things to do to share the load of a functioning household. I think it's called adulting. The problem usually arises when we do things expecting something in return. Common thoughts for men are that guys that do the dishes get more sex. But if we hold this expectation without giving voice to it, then we are setting ourselves up for failure and resentment. If it is sex you want, then ask for sex. She can always say no, but having the expectation that you are going to get sex because you are doing a chore and not voicing it only hurts the one with the expectation, and then resentment builds when you don't get what you were wanting. I do the dishes and also parts of the laundry. Always have, and will continue...but no longer any expectations tied to it.

I wish my wife would have told me she had these perceived unmet needs that I would have been happy to work on. No mind reading, no intuitive thinking...just f-ing tell me what's on your mind. Not sure why she thought I would not want to work on our relationship, but then again, she was out killing the marriage while I was being reliable.

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