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Double Standards, Trust Issues, and Receptiveness

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stark1984 posted 4/29/2019 13:43 PM

Is it just me, or do more people than I realize have double-standards about maintaining relationships with past partners? For example, girls (often, not always) expect their bfs to go NC or otherwise burn the bridge with ex-GFs/lovers/FWBs. Yet, when a guy asks his gf to go NC with an ex-BF/lover/FWB, she says 'No' and claims they're "just friends."

Of course, I'm sure there are plenty of guys that make that claim, too.

I already know I have trust issues that date back years, to between my 1st and 2nd marriages. They just got worse after my 2nd marriage, where my XW maintained online relationships with ex-BFs/FWBs and even engaged in having an A; the reason I left her. These trust issues have me wondering if I'm incapable of actually receiving or otherwise being receptive to romantic love.

My current gf tells me often that she loves me. Yet, I find it hard to believe for two reasons: she initially lied (by omission) to me about a past relationship she had with who she claims is "just a friend;" and each time I ask her about it, or rather, ask that she end said "friendship" with her ex, she breaks down into tears, saying how much she loves me, only wants me, etc.

I found out about this guy she was "just friends" with when I was spending time with her 9 yo son while she was at work. I asked him how long it had been since her mom was with someone, and he said not long and that I knew the guy (she introduced me to the guy at a comiccon she and I attended together, prior to me asking her son about all this). Her son even said she told him that I can't find out about her still talking to her ex-bf. Part of me suspects she lied to me bc she didn't want me to break up with her.

This guy she's "just friends" with lives a good couple hours from us, and he's been involved with another woman since last Oct/Nov. I probably shouldn't feel threatened by her ex-BF, or the "friendship" he has with my gf. Yet, I still do. We've been living together for a couple months now, and I need to figure out how I can trust her 100%, and be able to receive the love she says she has for me. Yet, I don't know how, and it's driving me batty...

NotTheManIwas posted 4/29/2019 14:32 PM

I found out about this guy she was "just friends" with when I was spending time with her 9 yo son while she was at work. I asked him how long it had been since her mom was with someone, and he said not long and that I knew the guy (she introduced me to the guy at a comiccon she and I attended together, prior to me asking her son about all this). Her son even said she told him that I can't find out about her still talking to her ex-bf.

I won't bore you with my details. Just know this, the whole "he's just a friend now <because having fucked him in the past means nothing>" is a common enough female cake-eating contention.

and each time I ask her about it, or rather, ask that she end said "friendship" with her ex, she breaks down into tears, saying how much she loves me, only wants me, etc.

Part of me suspects she lied to me bc she didn't want me to break up with her.

Obviously, its your call, man. My call is that you are her "safe" guy that will help raise her son (not yours biologically) and still be patsy enough for her to continue her "good times."

Do what you want, and be whatever.

ETA: Those tears that she sheds are waterworks that they turn on with alarming ease.

Just go get you another girl.

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 2:43 PM, April 29th (Monday)]

AbandonedGuy posted 4/29/2019 14:43 PM

When they lie to you about still seeing, in any capacity, some third party, that's a clear sign. I also agree that those tears are probably those of a crocodile.

Rideitout posted 4/29/2019 14:48 PM

There's a huge failure of understanding, IMHO, when it comes to this issue. In my experience, most women when seriously dating or married want the man to get rid of all attractive female friends. Because she knows, right/wrong or otherwise, that those "friends" are there primarily because you would like to f**k them at some point in the future. So; rightfully so in my personal case, my W wanted me to get rid of my female friends. And she should have.

But then the shoe on the other foot seems a little different. My W didn't want to f**k her male friends, so, why not keep them.. Well, one very simple reason, even though she has no desire to f**k them, many of them, I'm sure, have a burning desire to f**k her. In fact, they are just like me, just like the person who you said "can't have female friends" because if they're hot, I'm going to want to sleep with them. Well, your hot, and guess what? Yeah, a lot of your guy friends are only "friends" in the hope that you'll sleep with them. It doesn't matter that YOU don't want to sleep with them, they want to sleep with you and that's not a "friendship" it's more "laying in wait for the right moment". Which, incidentally, is exactly what her AP did.

So now it's equal. No female friends for me, no male friends for her. For different reasons, but with the same net result.

TKOGA posted 4/29/2019 14:49 PM

You need to break up with this person. Between what you've just posted and your thread about living together It seems that neither one of you are ready for a relationship.
You seriously asked her 9 year old son about her dating history? That's....fucking bonkers. And that the kid is privy enough to tell you about it? That she herself tells him things about the men in her life the child has no business knowing? This is completely nuts in my opinion. You got way too involved WAY TOO SOON and in my opinion should end this. I feel bad for her child.

stubbornft posted 4/29/2019 14:51 PM

I am going to try and keep this short because I could write a novel because I can relate very much. So, my current SO (not a cheater) lied to me by omission also about a woman he dated before me. He said they were just friends and I started feeling like he was leaving out details so I talked to him about it and out came the truth. Meanwhile they had been hanging out together, albeit rarely, when our relationship was new, and she told him she didn’t like me and thought we weren’t a good match. She has never met me.

Long long very long story short(er) – he said they weren’t in contact anymore. Turns out she had contacted him and he kind of blew her off but not very explicitly and didn’t tell me about it. I told him he could be friends with anyone he wants to be friends with, that he is a grown man. But that due to the lies at the start and me not feeling comfortable with it and because she had negative things about me, I wasn’t going to stay with him if he didn’t make it clear to her that he was not interested in being friends anymore and that it had to come from him and not from me.

He did it. We have moved on. We are doing better and stronger. My ex husband slept with my best friend of (at that time) 12 years, one of my parents was a cheater, one of my good girlfriends became an OW, a man I worked for and respected very much tried to have an affair with me (I was single, he was married). I feel like infidelity is everywhere. Just now in the past few years I have decided it is ok to have reasonable boundaries. If my SO has had sex with someone they shouldn’t be friends. This is a boundary I need in place. My SO and I both have opposite sex friends but they are people that are friends with us both and we don’t do things 1:1 with the opposite sex.

If he didn’t like my boundaries that is fine, someone else would be ok with them. He was ok and we have grown a lot the past few years and are very happy now.

stubbornft posted 4/29/2019 14:53 PM

And I do agree with the above poster, leave her kid out of this, that is not cool.

NotTheManIwas posted 4/29/2019 14:58 PM

but they are people that are friends with us both and we don’t do things 1:1 with the opposite sex.

Thank you... fucking exactly. What is so fucking hard about understanding the significance of this? I have wife's friends who have said flirtatious things to me in instances when I'm out and about and having run into them (the store, etc.). I grin charmingly and move the fuck on. 'Scuse me, but what the fuck is so hard about this?

Rideitout posted 4/29/2019 15:25 PM

Thank you... fucking exactly. What is so fucking hard about understanding the significance of this? I have wife's friends who have said flirtatious things to me in instances when I'm out and about and having run into them (the store, etc.). I grin charmingly and move the fuck on. 'Scuse me, but what the fuck is so hard about this?

I don't know, but a ton of people seem to live in a different world than the one I do (and sounds like you do too). A world where people are friends "just because" and no matter how attractive the other person, sex never crosses the mind. I wish I lived in that world, but I don't. And like you; I've had the "I'll f**k you when nobody's around" look from "friends" before.

The entire thing is just like some huge facade where we all have to pretend what's right in front of us actually isn't. Well, let me put it out there; most of the time I spent talking to a woman 1-1 in my entire life (outside of family) was because I had some level of interest in sleeping with her. Yes, I realize other posters are different, and I also think that I'm perhaps more so single minded with women than many others. But I can tell you, I'm not alone. It's incredibly common for men to have a conversation with a woman and then tell other men "Oh man, I'd give my right arm to..." with that same "friend" 5 minutes later. And do we really think this is isolated to just RIO? I don't. And I see these "just be friends" discussions on here all the time, often with guys saying "Of course I can be friends with a Playboy model and not think of sex with her" and just wonder to myself. Are they lying? Or am I crazy? Or maybe both?

stubbornft posted 4/29/2019 15:40 PM

RIO I think it is very common to have a sexual thought or curiosity when interacting with the opposite sex.

For me personally it isn't every man I come into contact with, but a good amount of them. I would never ever act on it, though, of course.

Sometimes it is just a fleeting thought or if they have a feature I find attractive, etc. I don't dwell on the thought and I don't think it is a big deal. I would assume my SO does the same.

It does seem to go away for me, personally, once I get to know a person. I have a couple of guys I am good friends with that are also friends of my SO and I may have had a quick thought when I first met them, but not anymore.

I don't find it to be a big deal unless it were to cause relationship issues IRL or if I was feeling really distracted by these thoughts or compelled to make something happen.

NotTheManIwas posted 4/29/2019 16:11 PM

I don't know, but a ton of people seem to live in a different world than the one I do (and sounds like you do too)

Yep, I could man-whore the hell out of my life, if I was so inclined. I know this. I don't, 'cuz I maintain hard and fast boundaries. I do so because, frankly, I just want to fuck my wife. She's what I want. Yearn for. Crass? Yes. But that's my truth.

Jorge posted 4/29/2019 16:24 PM

In my experience, most women when seriously dating or married want the man to get rid of all attractive female friends. Because she knows, right/wrong or otherwise, that those "friends" are there primarily because you would like to f**k them at some point in the future.

Or that you have already hit it and could do so at anytime in the future!!! Important add IMO. Past sex partners are very possibly, future ones.

Sometimes people (past sex and possible future sex partners) have "arrangements", or an understanding between them that's based on mutual attraction that's not forgotten, and doesn't want to be by either party.

It's there secret. X's or former FWB's without boundaries are extremely dangerous if one's spouse hasn't or won't let it go.

The X (speaking from a man's perspective here) is ok with a quick "get together" when convenient for both of them. No love involved. No relationship. No ongoing communication. Just a quick get together that entails sex.

cocoplus5nuts posted 4/29/2019 16:37 PM

I've never been the jealous and never told a SO to dump friends. I didn't even tell my fch he couldn't be friends with women anymore. I remember how pissed I was when I was told on here that neither one of us could have opposite friends ever again. My fch decided on his own that he wasn't going to talk to any other women unless absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, he doesn't have any Male friends, either.

I don't like that she hid this friendship from you, or that she won't give it up. I'm not going to tell you what to do about it. I will say, keep her kid out of it. Asking him a question like that was just wrong.

HalfTime2017 posted 4/29/2019 18:14 PM

I'm a BS, and I would agree with most of the posters and Stark as it relates to past SO/GF/Lovers b/c there was always some chemistry there. So unless that person did something horrible like cheat, or is just a completely different person now, that chemistry has the ability to spark again.

But I can tell you without a single doubt in my mind that I am able to have a friendship with a female without wanting anything more or have any sexual thoughts about her. Let me explain.

I'm not sure if I'm just different, but I have some childhood friends that are female, we are still friends, we talk, do dinner.... I've never ever made a move on them on the past 30 yrs, and I don't think its ever going to happen either. Reason why I know this is b/c I'm not attracted to them at all. I think coming from a males perspective, we should add attraction and chemistry into that mix. If I'm not attracted to a person, there is never a chance I'd want to engage in any sexual acts with that individual. Its just not happening. I have a GF, or other options.

For this exercise lets pick a fictional character, Fiona from Shrek, I'm not saying my friend looks like Fiona, but I think we all know her character and can at least relate. She is a downright good and wholly individual, and I can see being friends with her, but no way in my mind would I want anything more. I am just not attracted to her, but shes a damn good person and would def. take lunch or go and grab a drink with her every once in a while. My SO would have nothing to worry about, b/c I would not be interested in cheating on my SO with Fiona, b/c I'm just not attracted to her. I don't think this is really unique when there is no attraction.

On the flip, you can also say well, maybe this friend is somehow attracted to me, and she may make a move, but I'd argue that its been 30 yrs, and she hasn't mentioned it either. Are we saying its just not possible that people that are not attracted to each other can't just be friends? I think not.

To end, I will say this. If in the event that my SO is having a really hard time with it, I would consider stopping with the dinners/meet up with the friends without my SO present.If it bothered her that bad, I'd listen to her concerns and try to work through it.

Hickoryapple posted 4/29/2019 18:32 PM

I'm a BS, and seem to have an oddly different experience. When I was still on FB, I was still FB friends with an old bf, but we rarely were in touch - just birthday greetings. Me, WS, old bf and his partner have all known each other for years. We met up for a day out once we'd all had kids. I don't think about him, but would class him as an old friend, I guess. WS has never shown any worries about him.

In contrast, WS has not (to my knowledge, I may be wrong) kept any form of contact with old gf. And was like that before I met him, so it's nothing I've made him do. BUT, he has searched up old gf on FB, and immediately following that, looked up porn related to her career (a nurse...looked up sexy nurses). Which is out of line in my eyes. So I can well understand that some ppl require NC with past partners, and others don't. I don't see any double standards in that, just practicality in setting appropriate boundaries which are different for different ppl.

textingministry posted 4/29/2019 19:16 PM

Yeah, I’m so sorry, Stark, but I think she’s lying about her feelings and intentions. You see it yourself, otherwise you wouldn’t have told us her son told you she told him to keep her interactions with the ex secret. Something’s wrong, and even though you just moved in, this may not be the relationship you want to put yourself at risk for.

My hubby had a boundary-less relationship with a 25 year old whom he convinced me to allow to move in when her husband left her. Lots of things about her creeped me out, but I tried to keep open lines of communication with him about it. She moved out a blasted four months later and they began texting and meeting up all the time. To be fair, we became friends too, but she substituted my husband for hers. Some meetings I knew about (I thought they were friends and he was helping ... he’s a minister), but later more truth came out.

She was very much attracted to him and actively working to replace me ... including attempting to mother my two children. Later my eleven-year-old daughter told me she made it her mission to never let them be alone together because my daughter knew the woman was flirting. Daughter thinks Dad acted honorably, though. I think that’s the effect of a little mind being asked to bear more burden than it ever should - she picked up on the dynamic all on her own and thought she had to keep it a secret.

Anyway, after some nasty back and forth, he’ll now say that “technically” he had an EA but he never had any feelings for her or found her attractive. I’ve known him almost 20 years ... I honestly don’t think it was physical from the texts I hacked. But it was something... he talked every day, called her sweetie, and told her he loved her (though it was frequently ambiguous enough to be platonic love ... I just think given the fact pattern it’s inappropriate).

That being said, I’m not in a position financially that I can leave right now, but I have a hard time believing he “never thought of her that way” and “didn’t know she was flirting” (my telling him so early on would have been clue #1). He will admit he enjoyed the attention and focused on her to the detriment of our marriage. The woman denies anything ever happened... or that he’s even flirtatious.

We have issues. You don’t want to be that couple. Would love to hear thoughts on his claims, especially as I heard the same refrain as stark (“I want only you!”). He’s an INTJ, so he may very well have been simply enjoying the attention without having feelings ... or even sex. IDK. I’d run if I could.

textingministry posted 4/29/2019 19:19 PM

Oh, I hate to say this, but it just hit me ... are you helping her with rent and groceries? Good with her kid? She might be using you. :(

OwningItNow posted 4/30/2019 01:48 AM

There are a lot of threads that, due to lack of better phrasing, sound like, "My partner is doing things that make me uncomfortable. Do you think he/she should stop?" No, I don't think you can make them stop anything because you are not the relationship police or their boss. If you've discussed your discomfort and your partner has no desire to change, you should enforce your personal boundary by leaving the relationship.

She is insisting on keeping friendships that feel very uncomfortable to you? Personal boundary has been crossed. "Partner, I think you should do what you think is right, and I should do the same. For that reason, this relationship isn't right for me. When can you move your stuff?" Period.

Many of us can avoid being BS by protecting ourselves with boundaries. If your gut is screaming, then walk away. You have no choice.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 1:54 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)]

stark1984 posted 4/30/2019 08:27 AM

@textingministry - she hasn't contributed to the joint expenses yet, since she just started a new job a month ago. she moved about an hour and a half away from her family, friends and old job to be with me. she does contribute to joint expenses financially by paying for groceries or laundry here and there, dinners out and movies out, etc. and yes, i am good for her son. we connect easily. she stated the other night that she chose me bc i'm what she considers good for both her and her son. other guys she's dated has suggested marriage and she claims to have turned them down bc they weren't right for BOTH her and her son.

Now, I will agree, I probably should have left her son out of it. He's 9 and doesn't necessarily understand the context of relationships. While he thinks they were actually bf/gf, it could be that his mom and this guy were just friends. it strikes me as odd, however, that he's stayed the night at this guy's house at least three times with his mom. it doesn't make sense that a single mom would take her son with her to her FWB's house, if that's indeed all their relationship had been. she claims they were best friends, before she became seemingly desperate (which she admitted too multiple times) and she sought a person she could trust just to have sex with. she said she NEEDED it. last i knew, sex isn't a need to live or survive (outside the context of species survival).

what's interesting, is her response when I ask how she would feel if i had remained friends with a girl i had been romantically involved with prior to her. a girl i dated prior to her, we talked about marriage and having kids, etc, before i decided it wasn't right for me. we ended things peaceably and we each moved on. i've remained NC ever since. I asked her how she would feel had I remained friends with this particular ex-gf and she said she didn't know; that she might feel threatened bc this ex-gf and i talked about marriage and future together. on the other hand, this guy she's "just friends with," apparently made it clear he didn't want to get married or have kids, with anybody. she told me, multiple times when discussing this best friend/past-FWB relationship she had with this guy, that it was nothing more than just sex. yet, i still find it hard to believe she doesn't have some kind of feelings for him.

i'm not overly concerned that they'll hook up any time soon, for the simple facts that he lives 2+ hours away and has a gf of his own; what concerns me is the emotional component. i suspect that she keeps this guy "as a friend" bc he slept with her when no other guy would. as i may have mentioned in earlier posts, they were doing their thing when he started sniffing around other women without telling her. at that point, she ended their FWB relationship and "reset" things back to a platonic friendship. he's admitted to being a narcissist and even using her just to get his rocks off, esp when she was feeling desperate and NEEDED sex. she knows this, yet she's still adamant on keeping their friendship.

cocoplus5nuts posted 4/30/2019 09:15 AM

But I can tell you without a single doubt in my mind that I am able to have a friendship with a female without wanting anything more or have any sexual thoughts about her.

Thank you for this. I think it's sad that men think there's no point in being friends with a woman unless there's a chance for sex.

Stark, your gf must have some feelings for this guy. Otherwise, she wouldn't be so insistent about keeping him as a friend. He is certainly keeping her as a friend for the chance of future sex.

No, there's not a survival need for sex. However, humans do need touch to thrive.

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