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11 year update

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AbandonedGuy posted 4/24/2019 20:10 PM

As I detach more and more emotionally from the whole situation, now I'm just bummed I never got to experience that hot hysterical bonding sex with a remorseful-to-partially-remorseful spouse.

Greeneyesbluezy posted 4/24/2019 20:30 PM

Wiwtt,

So, spouse cheats.

R incurs massive pain on bs. Bs endures. Bs discovers new cheating 11 years later.

Was 11 years wasted? Could 11 years have been spent with another? Could 11 years been wasted on another who turned out to be a cheater? Was a new marriage made and spouses are happy?

What ifís and who knows.

R is very subjective to the persons in R.

I believe, your view is valid as your personal experience. Period.

[This message edited by Greeneyesbluezy at 8:32 PM, April 24th (Wednesday)]

DevastatedDee posted 4/24/2019 22:28 PM

Gently, all we have here are the words we read and write. We have no non-verbal cues, and scientists say that we communicate most with non-verbals.
Because we have only words, one's response has to start with first understanding the literal meaning of the words, and one has to be very cautious when adding things to the words.

What I see is a lot of people generalizing from their own case. That's just bad logic and ba thinking overall.

I actually welcome ideas that differ from mine, as long as they don't stem from incompetent thinking.

I'm fine with being the guy who who wants to silence bad logic. Just don't think that triggering on bad logic is that same as triggering on the the idea the logic is supposed to support.

Examples:

1) Divorce is always the right way.

2) Divorce is always a right way.

The first statement says that everyone who doesn't D is handling infidelity in a wrong way. Even some people who don't seem to believe R is possible stay married after infidelity, and they say not divorcing the the right way for them. Statement 1 is a vast over-generalization; that's why it was confronted.

Fair enough, lol. Let me rephrase. It is never wrong to decide to divorce someone who cheated on you. Sometimes it could also be right to try and reconcile with that person.

We have two options, basically. One is always a valid choice. The other can be a valid choice depending upon a bunch of other factors.

Does that help?

AbandonedGuy posted 4/24/2019 22:30 PM

The saving grace of a trauma is our reaction to it is all in our heads. We are very good at reframing events to suit our New Narrative. A narc cheater-abandoner turns into a sad woman who did me a favor long term. A shitty husband turns into a depressed soul in need of positivity I wasn't getting. My loneliness turns into me just rediscovering "who I am".

It's all pain. Life is punctuated by painful moments. We deal with them and we move on with our heads held high. And sometimes we learn a couple or three lessons.

So is it wasted time to R when your spouse reoffends? Maybe not. Maybe that's you doing the work to save your marriage. Maybe that's you living up to your personal code. Or it could be merely time wasted on a serial cheating dickhead. We get to paint over our painful moments with the color of our choice when we're finally out of the woods. Positivity, like closure, is a gift we give ourselves.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/25/2019 02:16 AM

Bs discovers new cheating 11 years later.

To be clear I have no evidence of another affair. She simply wouldnít give me her laptop password.
Looking back I remained hyper vigilant after Dday. I never let my gard down. 11 years ago she hid her password. It was only when she forgot to log off one night I discovered she was having an affair. So you can imagine the triggers I had. It was torture. I did find some financial infidelity. That was enough for me.

So, the moral of the story is that if youíre trying to restore trust in your marriage donít hide your password.

Sew. I know what itís like to be so attached to Son youíll put up with a LOT of their shit. Been there.


[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 7:39 AM, April 25th (Thursday)]

NotTheManIwas posted 4/25/2019 07:03 AM

Well, dang it, Wish, you edited your post and ruined my funny.

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 7:25 AM, April 25th (Thursday)]

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/25/2019 07:45 AM

That was funny. I really donít have a problem in that erea.
But no. If itís still up after 11 years call your Doctor.
And let me know what youíre talking. Want!

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 7:51 AM, April 25th (Thursday)]

Striver posted 4/25/2019 08:09 AM

I think R may be valid for all marriages.

But, if I had to advise a friend, I would need to know details before I endorsed it at all.

BS may take a big self esteem hit because of the A. Doormat tendencies may sprout up in the marriage if they weren't there already. These marriages are not good candidates for R. Unfortunately, the BS often does a quick, painless R in these situations because they don't believe they deserve any better. THAT IS ALSO R. When you give "blanket" advice that R is an option, these people are also listening! Sometimes the BS cannot do the sort of work to make R work, in that case divorce is better for the BS. No fault to the BS at all, it is just not their personality. R takes a bunch of things to work right, and people should not be advising it unless those components are in place. Even there, chance of failure still exists.

Marriage is a special status. Even the Bible allows for divorce for adultery. You can forgive even while divorcing. All of these are important.

The saddest cases are where people go on to have children, or more children, with known cheaters. And get advised to do so. That is the worst case scenario for me over and above any other outcome.

HouseOfPlane posted 4/25/2019 09:51 AM

"... For better or for worse..."

It's a sad fact that the worst of the "for worse" moments a marriage may have to endure are self inflicted injuries.

RubixCubed posted 4/25/2019 10:10 AM

I am calling this out, not because I mind that people in this forum call me a cheater. I cheated, I am a cheater. Okay, it doesn't bother me, it makes sense.

But, in real life where is this used? And to what end? So, my husband could always call me that if he wanted to. And, if we D'ed, maybe he would or wouldn't. But, we are at this stage together and with intents on that continuing. What purpose does this serve him in his healing? I get the grief having the anger component, I get that I caused this, and that really he's at liberty to do anything at all he wants. I just don't see how it helps him to really heal?

Since you called me out I'll try to explain my post better. It was not meant to be inflammatory just an accurate metaphor.
You answered the questions in your second paragraph about labels in your first.
It really doesn't matter whether a label is helpful or has a purpose it's put on someone (for our terms here) to identify the actions that person committed. That's a societal norm. Not my rules. Good luck changing that. Where the answers to the healing and purpose come in would be all dependent on the characteristics attributed to said label and peoples reactions to those characteristics.

[This message edited by RubixCubed at 10:14 AM, April 25th (Thursday)]

hikingout posted 4/25/2019 10:16 AM

I really wasn't trying to change anything. I have been in this forum for almost two years. I am fine with the label, I did in fact earn it.

My purpose for my post was to really point out that some of the bitterest parts of what is a natural part of infidelity need to be worked out for the BS. My point was it's not healthy for my husband to hold on to that bitterness (which to me labeling is indicative of) for HIMSELF. It's not really about me or saying that I am offended. I am in fact not offended. I am not sure that I am illustrating this in a way that can be grasped, but I pointed at that comment only because I skipped through a thread that had a lot of venom in it. I was merely suggesting that the venom that people feel towards others sometimes ends up poisoning no one but oneself.

It's my assumption that most people who come here want to feel better. I was pointing it out that things like that, when conducted in real life, is a barrier of that.

Darkness Falls posted 4/25/2019 10:38 AM

The saddest cases are where people go on to have children, or more children, with known cheaters. And get advised to do so.

Itís not always a cause for sadness. We are very happy with the beautiful children weíve made and the family we have created. ❤️

sewardak posted 4/25/2019 11:18 AM

"Sew. I know what itís like to be so attached to Son youíll put up with a LOT of their shit. Been there.

if this is to me I don't get it.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/25/2019 17:45 PM

Sewardak, Iím typing on the run so to clearify i said

if i divorced him it would have been a bad chapter in a good marriage

Spouses donít cheat on each other in a good Marriage.
Youíre in denial as I was. My point is this. I understand you have a bond and it hasnít been broken with infidelity.
Iíve been there. I have accepted behavior below what should be excepted in a healthy marriage because of the bond.
But feelings have no IQ. Thereís no logic in our decision to stay with someone so broken they are likely to hurt us again.

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 5:48 PM, April 25th (Thursday)]

sewardak posted 4/25/2019 20:36 PM

Wish I disagree with all youíve written. Much literature has been written about the good marriage thing. If our marriage wasnít good that means I was partly to blame, as weíre you. Is that true?
Iím in denial? Iím happy. Do you deny me that? Are you convinced Iíll be hurt again? Iím not, and I live with the guy. Perhaps youíre in denial that a reality other than your own can exist.
Does anyone else here think Iím in denial about my own marriage? And how could they possibly make that call.
I feel sad for you wish. You think cheaters are forever broken. I do not. DS was a living breathing example of that, as are others here.

[This message edited by sewardak at 8:38 PM, April 25th (Thursday)]

Unbroken78 posted 4/26/2019 02:10 AM

I don't get the rule about generalization.

Frankly, generalization is a useful tool to identify trends and prevent issues on a larger scale. You rarely solve reoccurring problems on a 1 by 1 basis...this is horribly inefficient and will have a task saturation issue.

When you see a problem occurring multiple times, in a pattern, that is clearly something that can be generalized in an accurate manner.

Infidelity is clearly a pattern. It is obvious that there are general statements that can be both generalized and accurate.


To deny the ability to make general observations, is to cut off your own best tool to comprehend larger "why" type questions.

This rule needs to be given some nuance. There are bad generalizations and good generalizations.


We already recognize this as we have the cheaters handbook of "what cheaters say"...and similar...these are generalizations that are true.

So, we are all currently generalizing...we are just selectively enforcing the rule on general statements.


Perhaps it would be better to simply go with a "exercise free speech"...but try to be kind while doing it.


That would be more effective than the current selective enforcement of vague rules.

To do otherwise suggests that there is implicit bias in the moderation of the forum. That's not good.


HoldingTogether posted 4/26/2019 04:46 AM

Perhaps it would be better to simply go with a "exercise free speech"...but try to be kind while doing it.

Yeaaahhhh, because a rule like ďtry to be kind while doing itĒ is super specific and couldnít possibly lead to a perception of:
selective enforcement of vague rules

Come on man.

You are demonstrating the near impossibility of moderating a forum like this.

Also:

This rule needs to be given some nuance

You are aware there is a team of volunteers discussing this shit right? They arenít Just making unilateral arbitrary decisions whilly nilly on a whim.


RubixCubed posted 4/26/2019 07:27 AM

hikingout:
My purpose for my post was to really point out that some of the bitterest parts of what is a natural part of infidelity need to be worked out for the BS. My point was it's not healthy for my husband to hold on to that bitterness (which to me labeling is indicative of) for HIMSELF. It's not really about me or saying that I am offended. I am in fact not offended. I am not sure that I am illustrating this in a way that can be grasped, but I pointed at that comment only because I skipped through a thread that had a lot of venom in it. I was merely suggesting that the venom that people feel towards others sometimes ends up poisoning no one but oneself.

Your quote above is about forgiveness, not societies labeling. Not forgiving is what poisons you. A label is just an adjective for specificity.It's not a generalization either, actually the opposite of a generalisation due to the fact that you are labeling a very specific thing.
I'm not going to reply to this any longer as I already got some time in the box over being misunderstood on this topic, and will just keep it to myself instead of risking being misunderstood again.
Your point is not wrong it just seems you may be attributing power to a "label" which it does not have.

josiep posted 4/26/2019 07:27 AM

josiep yes. sewardak

Then we will have to agree to disagree.

This is just my opinion and how I feel about all this. I see a group of people who are still struggling with how their lives have turned out. I sometimes see some comments as adding insults to their injuries. I was hoping to appeal to people's greater sense of good to realize that not everyone who responds to a newly BS is healed and that some of them might need some encouragement, boosting up, a feeling of inclusion, take your pick. When people lash out and take an extreme side, they're usually still struggling with it all and writing here is helping them vent, helping them make sense of their situation by having to put it all into words. And that's all so necessary before they can forgive themselves for what they see as making bad decisions. Instead of talking to them and asking them why they feel that way or how long have they felt that way or any effort to help them dig into it, we (collectively) seem to jump to chastise and correct them and tell them to stop talking that way. When in the end, shouldn't our focus be to change their hearts? Maybe we need another forum for "failed reconciliation"?

This type of thread hits S.I. every once in awhile. Some of the players change but some of the people respond to them as though they're the same ones who were in the debate last time. I know it can feel like one is repeating oneself over and over and it gets tiring but it's a new audience so it isn't a repetition to them.

I believe all voices need to be heard. Some will jump in and talk about eating and exercising, some will jump in and say to bail out, some will jump in and suggest IC, some will jump in and say to see a lawyer. In the end, none of us knows what the best choice is, the best we can do is share our own experiences and talk up what we think we did right and talk down what didn't. Hell, probably a good percentage of us years down the road still don't know if we made the right choice. I just went through a horrible situation but I still can't say I made the wrong choice to stay with him back in 1983. On one level, of course I did. But on another level, I can't say what kind of life I'd have lead if we'd split back then. I was so broken that time, I was planning to move back near my brother and file for welfare cuz I was sure that's all my life was good for. But these uncertainties and struggles are all part of life. All we and they can do is gather the info, hear all voices and all sides, and pick as best we can.

I also think it's good for these conversations to occur now and then because it's really important that the people struggling to make a decision realize life is not black and white and the answers aren't printed in a manual somewhere. I think that helps them feel normal rather than on the outside looking in because they think they lost their manual.

I am sorry I got so snotty about it all. And I do apologize for thinking I had any right to step in and become a preacher. Actually, I thought about this last night and was very embarrassed for myself because not minding my own business is my worst trait and I totally reverted back to it and here I thought I'd been making some progress. I do it because I want to help but who am I to think that what I do is helping?

Peace.

josiep posted 4/26/2019 07:30 AM

As I detach more and more emotionally from the whole situation, now I'm just bummed I never got to experience that hot hysterical bonding sex with a remorseful-to-partially-remorseful spouse.

Amen to that. It's one of the things I resent highly.

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