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11 year update

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Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/23/2019 17:53 PM

Thank you josiep, This thread has been downgraded to chat room however there are things JFO need to consider. Not everything can be fixed! The JFO should know whatís involved with R. Theyíre in shock as I was so proceed slowly and With caution. The best prediction of future behavior is past behavior. Believe me itís true.

Darkness Falls posted 4/23/2019 17:58 PM

So I still believe that we need to continue to air all voices because some people NEED to be told that D is an option and that they don't have to fix this.

To reiterate what many others have already said:

No one is saying D ďisnít an option.Ē What people are saying is that D isnít the ONLY or NECESSARY option for everyone.

If either spouse wants to D after infidelity has been a part of their marriage, thatís a completely valid choice.

But if both spouses want to R, thatís just as valid.

cocoplus5nuts posted 4/23/2019 20:57 PM

Josie, I think I'm the one you think said the BP didn't work hard enough. What I actually said was that it seemed like wish rugswept.

The BP does have work to do to R. The first part of that work is holding the CP accountable and demanding change. If that is not done, it's highly unlikely that the CP will do anything. Why would they? R will not happen.

josiep posted 4/23/2019 20:59 PM

No one is saying D ďisnít an option.Ē What people are saying is that D isnít the ONLY or NECESSARY option for everyone.

If either spouse wants to D after infidelity has been a part of their marriage, thatís a completely valid choice.

But if both spouses want to R, thatís just as valid.

That might be what you are saying but that's not what I'm picking up and not the message I'm hearing. What I see is an effort to silence a particular group of people who don't believe R is achievable in most cases.

I don't believe we should be beating them up further than life already has. But just on general principle, I don't think they should be silenced and I believe all points of view need to be heard.

Instead of parsing words and being smug, how about asking the offenders to use phrases like "it's my opinion that....." to preface their posts?

You see, I get it. 3 yrs. ago, I would've been one of those people jumping up and down, insisting people can change. I was so proud of how hard I worked for my 34 yrs. of R and I would have been leading the charge to say it can happen if both people work hard. And let me tell you, I worked hard. Very hard. And dammit, I was successful at it.

Until 2 yrs. ago when it all came tumbling down. I am embarrassed when I think back about how I viewed my life, how smug and superior I must have been in my mind. And I'm embarrassed at how naive I was because until a cheater is tested again, none of us knows if they've truly changed.

josiep posted 4/23/2019 21:05 PM

OK, guys, how about you preface your statements with "it's my opinion" and "I believe" and "Based on my experience, this is what I think you should consider."

josiep posted 4/23/2019 21:10 PM

osie, I think I'm the one you think said the BP didn't work hard enough. What I actually said was that it seemed like wish rugswept.

The BP does have work to do to R. The first part of that work is holding the CP accountable and demanding change. If that is not done, it's highly unlikely that the CP will do anything. Why would they? R will not happen.

No, not you at all. It's a general feeling I've been struggling with ever since I came to S.I.

And I'm finally brave enough to speak up.

DevastatedDee posted 4/23/2019 22:13 PM

The BP does have work to do to R. The first part of that work is holding the CP accountable and demanding change. If that is not done, it's highly unlikely that the CP will do anything. Why would they? R will not happen.

Honestly? That still falls into doing the WSs work for them. That's still "I have to fix it". The boundaries are not to hold the WS accountable and get him or her to change. The boundaries are to protect the BS.

Divorce is ALWAYS the right choice. R sometimes is another valid choice. I think a WS gets very lucky when the BS doesn't leave immediately. Very lucky. The BS is in shock, hasn't gotten clarity on who this person they married is yet and still believes them to be who they thought they were, and is rarely in a position to just up and leave. Kids, finances, etc. If the BS remains in shock and hasn't the ability to leave for long enough, that gives a WS a chance to work on their crap and try to figure out how to become a decent human being. Then R might be possible. But D? That was always going to be an absolutely correct choice.

josiep posted 4/23/2019 22:35 PM

Divorce is ALWAYS the right choice. R sometimes is another valid choice. I think a WS gets very lucky when the BS doesn't leave immediately. Very lucky. The BS is in shock, hasn't gotten clarity on who this person they married is yet and still believes them to be who they thought they were, and is rarely in a position to just up and leave. Kids, finances, etc. If the BS remains in shock and hasn't the ability to leave for long enough, that gives a WS a chance to work on their crap and try to figure out how to become a decent human being. Then R might be possible. But D? That was always going to be an absolutely correct choice.

Well said.

I was actually going to ask how the Reconciled people know their present situation is better than if they'd divorced. I'm not saying it isn't but the point is, we don't know for sure and we can't know for sure.

DevastatedDee posted 4/23/2019 22:40 PM

I was actually going to ask how the Reconciled people know their present situation is better than if they'd divorced. I'm not saying it isn't but the point is, we don't know for sure and we can't know for sure.

Yeah, we can't ever know what the future would have held had we made a different choice (or not had one forced upon us). Well, I think some people can. I think I'm one that it was a dealbreaker for. My pride was not okay with even the short false R I attempted. I didn't like myself and I didn't like myself because I had stayed. It felt wrong. Just all wrong. I don't know what the rest of my life will be, but even if my WH had gotten it together, I likely wouldn't have been able to hold up my end of the bargain in R. When he killed it, he really killed it.

AbandonedGuy posted 4/24/2019 00:23 AM

Agree 110% that D is always solid and R is sometimes ok. It's the difference between investing and playing the lottery.

I'm glad I got ditched by my cheater. For so long, I envied everyone in limbo. I wanted another shot at us working. But now, I wouldn't trade my awful loneliness for deep paranoia, seething anger, ever present bitterness, recurring depression, and countless hours spent arguing and MCing and arguing.

Striver posted 4/24/2019 01:06 AM

On a personal level, I think the D/R choice tends to be emotional. People go with their gut. Whether this is the best thing for them personally in the long run cannot be said.

I made the wrong choice marrying my ex. My ex is a narcissistic asshole deep down, but it was still the wrong choice. Did not work out. She divorced me, I was not given the choice to reconcile. But even if I had been, who's to say that would have been the choice I felt about the best?

So I believe people can R based on gut feel and still have it be the more hurtful choice for them. Because it's such a gut reaction anyway.

I am overall R neutral. I am never going to say anything bad about someone who gets a D because of adultery. That, to me, is a higher priority than supporting R. You can R if you want, your choice, in and of itself I see no particular virtue in it.

On a philosophical or practical level, it's all about the kids for me. Have kids, R is a bigger priority. I have zero problem with people sticking around because of the kids. No kids, planning to have some in the future, get out of that marriage! Huge mistake to attempt R in those situations.

But again, people are going to go with their gut, and someone young who goes with their gut may go down the path of R. But I would let them know the dangers if they happen by here.

Followtheriver posted 4/24/2019 03:01 AM

Divorce is ALWAYS the right choice. R sometimes is another valid choice. I think a WS gets very lucky when the BS doesn't leave immediately. Very lucky. The BS is in shock, hasn't gotten clarity on who this person they married is yet and still believes them to be who they thought they were, and is rarely in a position to just up and leave. Kids, finances, etc. If the BS remains in shock and hasn't the ability to leave for long enough, that gives a WS a chance to work on their crap and try to figure out how to become a decent human being. Then R might be possible. But D? That was always going to be an absolutely correct choice.

I have been reading and following this thread as a way to learn and try to have some understanding of the decisions that a BS has to make and how they find their way to those decisions. I never had any intention of posting a reply of any kind out of respect for every BS who has posted on this thread.

But, I can not and will not stay silent when comments like the above show any type of disrespect to my BH and the decisions he made on D-day and after.

He handled D-day with grace in himself, strength in his decisions and mercy towards me. He knew what he wanted and told me to fix my shit if I wanted it too. He knew with perfect clarity who he was offering the gift of R to and he did it anyway. He was in the perfect position to walk, grown kids, no financial issues, absolutely nothing was keeping him from D.

Except my BH saw a bigger picture, made from our years together, our family, how I grew up, what we had worked for, his behavior over the years and a future that he still wanted me in. He saw his wife and mother of his children as someone who was worth the chance at redemption and he saw her determination to be worthy. And that big picture was perfectly clear to him on D-day.

My BH was decisive and sure of those decisions on D-day to R without considering D, just as some BH are decisive and sure of their decision to D without considering R. Doesn't make either of them wrong, just different.

I was actually going to ask how the Reconciled people know their present situation is better than if they'd divorced. I'm not saying it isn't but the point is, we don't know for sure and we can't know for sure.

You are right in that you don't and can't know for sure. But if you look at how many positive reconciliation stories there are compared to positive new beginning stories there are, it might help with the answer.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 4/24/2019 04:24 AM

LtCdrLost,

FLAMING & SHAMING: Please refrain from attacking or shaming, publicly or by using the SI.com Private Message feature. Do not bait or call out others. This includes members and non-members.

Barregirl posted 4/24/2019 05:16 AM

But, I can not and will not stay silent when comments like the above show any type of disrespect to my BH and the decisions he made on D-day and after.

Brava FTR! I am in a similar situation with my BH. No children, no financial difficulties, no impediments to D other than my BH did not want to D. He believes in fixing what is broken, not throwing it away. As long as I was willing to do the work on myself and the work on our M, he was in. Like your H, mine was decisive in favor of R on dday.
In my opinion and experience what works for one does not necessarily work for all, and to claim it does is disingenuous. Our experiences shape our perception and color our opinions. In that respect I can understand why those with remorseless WS post the way they do, and they are equally as entitled to be colored by their lives as those of us in R are by our own. It is far more important to recognize that each situation will be shaped by the individuals experiencing it, and the advice given will be painted by the giver's perception.

Barregirl posted 4/24/2019 05:16 AM

Dup post

[This message edited by Barregirl at 5:18 AM, April 24th (Wednesday)]

Barregirl posted 4/24/2019 05:17 AM

Dup post. Sorry.

[This message edited by Barregirl at 5:17 AM, April 24th (Wednesday)]

AbandonedGuy posted 4/24/2019 06:02 AM

With all due respect, I would hardly call fewer D vs. R posts in New Beginnings a sign that R is better. It's a sign that D folks are off living life and R folks are continuing to struggle and seek validation for their choices. WSs can't begin to fathom what a BS goes through during R unless they themselves lived it, as a BS. I can guess what it's like to be pregnant, but I'm not going to start basing arguments on my assumption of what third trimester kicks must feel like.

cocoplus5nuts posted 4/24/2019 06:57 AM

Dee, the work I listed is not the CPs work. It is the BPs work to protect themselves. Setting boundaries is holding other people accountable and demanding change. This is my boundary because of what you've done. If you cross it, I will leave. Then, it's up to the CP to make a choice.

cocoplus5nuts posted 4/24/2019 06:57 AM

Dup post

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 6:58 AM, April 24th (Wednesday)]

Bigger posted 4/24/2019 07:24 AM

Not everything can be fixed! The JFO should know whatís involved with R.

Is a totally different claim from your first post:

Know this. Is she cheated your marriage is OVER period.
If you have children and can stay and be polite to your wife until theyíre 18 and not bring up the affair I would encourage you to do so. No kids. Leave immediately no matter what the cost. But donít kid yourself. If you stay sheíll cheat again.

Itís good to see that you are mellowing.

Your first post clearly states NOTHING can be fixed. If she cheats once she will cheat again. Your last post at least opens for the possibility for there being change.

Its also good to see that you are realizing that there is a lot of work required for R. One major part of R is reaching a stage where YOU Ė the BS Ė can bring up the affair at any time and point because there might be things you need to revisit. Something your original advice avoids by stating you should be polite and avoid all mention of the affair. Basically advocating rug-sweeping.

I think your post thread was moved to General simply because of the broad claims you make and put forward as absolute truths. Thatís about as useful as if MangledHeart would pin his own thread at the top of JFO stating that:

Know this. Is she cheated your marriage is GREAT period.


I guess one could create a forum to help people deal with infidelity and focus on one solution or one way out. There are already a couple of forums that focus on one single methodology as being the ďrightĒ one (Plan A, Plan B, Love languages etc). I can envision a forum that tells a betrayed husband that his best bet is divorce. I can even see that as a very successful forum, especially if it was focused on successful and total divorce rather than revenge and getting even. As I stated in my first post on this thread: There is nothing wrong with infidelity being a deal-breaker.

But I do think there is IMMENSE damage in suggesting you settle for years of limbo. I think remaining in infidelity (and thatís exactly what limbo is) as you suggest is the biggest harm your post does to newly betrayed men and women who might take your advice the way it was set forth: As absolute truth.

[This message edited by Bigger at 7:25 AM, April 24th (Wednesday)]

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