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11 year update

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GoldenR posted 4/22/2019 03:33 AM

What I see here is a contingent of people who have had some skirmishes along the way and it still floats to the surface now and then.

BINGO!

I don't really consider myself pro-D or pro-R. I'm pro strong, decisive actions with the goal of waking the WS up.

Believe it or not, of the few ppl here that I'm somewhat close to, half are WSes.

Back to your point, you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Funny thing, when those conflicts happen, way more often than not,it's a member of the pro-R crowd telling an OP not to listen to anyone advocating D bc they have an agenda. Conversely, Ive never seen anyone that was advocating for D come into a thread and tell that OP not to listen to anyone that is pro-R bc they have an agenda.

LtCdrLost posted 4/22/2019 06:40 AM

Funny thing, when those conflicts happen, way more often than not,it's a member of the pro-R crowd telling an OP not to listen to anyone advocating D bc they have an agenda. Conversely, Ive never seen anyone that was advocating for D come into a thread and tell that OP not to listen to anyone that is pro-R bc they have an agenda.

I believe this is clear to anyone reading the threads here with objectivity. In many cases, the most vocal R's are very defensive about the course they chose, and will advocate that course to a JFO both actively and passively. Most D's, not so much. Speculating candidly about the "why" of that difference seems to be limited to PM discussions. I imagine if those candid conversations were conducted openly in the comments of a JFO post or anywhere in these forums, it would result in mass bannings from this site. My path out of my XW's infidelity was clear to me. Once I had a picture of the thoroughness of her betrayal I never even considered R. Others assessments are different, including some whose betrayal was even more heinous than mine (pregnancy from the A, taking children on vacation with the AP, etc). Such is life. What one person finds intolerable, another may find tolerable. This is simply human nature, and a manifestation of the wide spectrum of personality profiles in our species.

[This message edited by LtCdrLost at 6:41 AM, April 22nd (Monday)]

sleepylove posted 4/22/2019 06:46 AM

Funny thing, when those conflicts happen, way more often than not,it's a member of the pro-R crowd telling an OP not to listen to anyone advocating D bc they have an agenda. Conversely, Ive never seen anyone that was advocating for D come into a thread and tell that OP not to listen to anyone that is pro-R bc they have an agenda.

I think this is because there are many pro-D posters on this site that are all in for D in every case, no other options, when clearly there are options.
Most if not all posters that are R friendly are not single minded in the fact that R is the only choice. They are just expressing that R is a viable option in some cases and they want others to at least explore that option. I’m not sure I’ve seen one poster on this site that indicated that D is never an option.

cocoplus5nuts posted 4/22/2019 07:22 AM

tried very hard not to bring up the affair over the next 11 years. I knew she wouldn’t stay if I kept beating it over her head. But during a couple of heated arguments I did bring it up. She knew I could I pull out the cheater card at will.

This sounds to me like you never really reconciled. You just rugswept, let it fester, and through it in her face when you were angry. No wonder you eventually D.

R is hard work. If both partners don't do the work, the M won't work.

I don't think infidelity necessarily means the M is over. Most Ms remain after infidelity. Maybe the M you thought you had. I don't think of my M as over, or that we had to build a new one in R. We have had to build a new relationship.

cocoplus5nuts posted 4/22/2019 07:27 AM

What I have noticed is that a lot of BHes tell newl BHes to get out fast. They seem adamant that D is the only way. I haven't kept a tally, so I don't know if that is a fact. Just something that has struck me.

LtCdrLost posted 4/22/2019 07:43 AM

What I have noticed is that a lot of BHes tell newl BHes to get out fast. They seem adamant that D is the only way. I haven't kept a tally, so I don't know if that is a fact. Just something that has struck me.

I haven't kept any kind of tally either. I fully expect someone will do some sort of "audit" on this topic then come refute us both, ha ha... I say have at it, if one has the time and inclination to do that.

As to the differences in our points of view, I can only give a BH's perspective, as that's what I was a year ago. I couldn't remotely imagine remaining married to my XWW. The very idea was repugnant to me on the basest level... So, that's the particular POV from which I advise BH's to get out of a WW's infidelity. I'm aware that some (many?) BH's may not see physical infidelity as the absolute dealbreaker it was for me, but I'll never look in the mirror at a man who accepted it, and that's obviously important to me. Other BH's, well obviously that's either not so important to them or not something they'll admit, maybe even to themselves. I also took my share of shots for utterly burning down the life of my XW's AP. I can live with that, as the list of those whose approbation I desire in this life is very very short, and none are found here on SI.

HouseOfPlane posted 4/22/2019 08:36 AM

...but I'll never look in the mirror at a man who accepted it, and that's obviously important to me.

I'm curious, LCL, what you will do if/when one of your charge comes to you in such a situation and tells you he wants to save his marriage. Needs some time off to work it. Will you think less of your sailor? Color your evaluation of him? Or support his goal 100%? Or try to influence him to take a different path. As the Skipper, you will have tremendous influence.

If you command enough, you'll be there.

LtCdrLost posted 4/22/2019 08:56 AM

I'll give him (or her, though this is the tiny portion of the USN remaining all-male) my point of view without sharing my personal experiences, and I don't believe it's the place of a leader to attempt to influence a particular course of action... You know as well as I do exactly how common this is in the Navy, there are a myriad of resources for a Sailor in this position. At this point I'm not a CO or an OIC, so I could see my viewpoint being only one of several which would likely be made available.

"Color my evaluation"? Sir, I'm sure you're aware that's not in any way appropriate. Of course not.

[This message edited by LtCdrLost at 9:55 PM, April 22nd (Monday)]

NotTheManIwas posted 4/22/2019 09:37 AM

when a poster is so mired in his own opinion

How nice of you to drop in, and still posting in the way you originally introduced yourself to me when I was a newbie on this site.

Just another case in point for this...

What I see here is a contingent of people who have had some skirmishes along the way and it still floats to the surface now and then.

So I'll just take solace in considering the questionable source of the potshot.

ETA:

That's hardly call for this kind of vitriol.

And this is rich given my experience with the poster.

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 9:52 AM, April 22nd (Monday)]

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/22/2019 09:39 AM

Statistics show most stay together despite infidelity as noted above. I’d be willing to bet a very high percentage of those who stayed believed it to be a deal breaker before Dday.
Also, is I’ve mentioned, there’s a big difference between staying together and being happily married. I could get past the one person in the world who was supposed to have my back sticking a knife in it. Looking back I suppose there was a lot of rug sweeping. We had spent months with a councilor after Dday before we moved out of state for a new start. Our councilor told us if we didn’t resume counciling when we relocate we’d our M wouldn’t survive. It turns out she was right.
I really admire the those here who refuse to lower the bar as to what is acceptable in Marriage. Best of luck to those in R.

steadychevy posted 4/22/2019 10:03 AM

Well, Wishiwasnt, now your being accused of not giving it the old college try to R 11 years ago. No wonder you D'd. You rugswept and got angry from time to time. When your WW was trying so hard. She was trying so hard wasn't she?

HouseOfPlane posted 4/22/2019 10:17 AM

Good answer, LCL

cocoplus5nuts posted 4/22/2019 10:21 AM

Steadychevy, I was not accusing anyone of anything. Just stating what I thought. And, when I said, "you," I was referring to both, not just wish. My point is that, if both parties don't really work on R, it won't happen. The M won't survive, at least as a healthy one. Seems like the CW did not do any hard work on herself.

As to sisoon, i'm with CT. I have seen nothing but kind, sincere posts from him over the years. I don't see where the idea of P/A is coming from.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 3:51 PM, April 22nd (Monday)]

steadychevy posted 4/22/2019 10:48 AM

I expect I was projecting based on my own situation. I believe I provided opportunity for my WW to come to the table to see if there was a possibility of R. IMO that never happened. I was angry that she didn't even appear to be making any effort. I over reacted.

savingmyfamily posted 4/22/2019 11:05 AM

cocoplus5nuts:

Being relatively new here I can only report back on my limited personal experience, but yes, the majority of responses/msgs I received from BH's were to go straight for D.

However I think that's to be expected for the following reasons:

I think its safe to assume that a majority of the folks in this forum are either divorced, attempted R and failed or still in R but struggling. The clear majority of the long term posters that Ive seen here are either no longer with their WS or are still being hurt/bitter about their WS. Those who were successful in their R arent going to be as likely to stick around long term and keep posting and statistics show that you're 5 times more likely to receive feedback from someone with a negative experience than a positive one.

There are of course other factors to consider that make successful long-term R posters/stories less likely to be prevalent on these boards (not only is it hard and require a lot of work, but staying here and reading these posts daily can actually keep us reflecting on the moment of our own dday and make R or healing even harder). I equate it to being a veteran and how I feel every 4th of July when the fireworks start going off. Support groups are great and can help a lot, but they can also turn ugly fast when they are filled with antagonists.

I say all of that to say this; while these forums might be heavy handed in favor of the straight D crowd, not all of those who are strong pro-D are that way out of malice or using it as an opportunity to project their pain/anger on to others in an effort to make themselves feel better. Yes, some are that way, after all, misery does love company, but there are some who genuinely do want you to know what they experienced and want to save you that same pain and disappointment.

With a little bit of examination I think its fairly easy to see who falls into which groups. The ones who are really looking to help and are sincere about sharing their experiences in an effort to be empathetic, are the ones who do it without venom in their words, who are clear that their way isnt the only way, its just the way it turned out for them and this is what they learned along the way. They explain your options and make it clear that every case/spouse is different.

I will use a specific example from my personal JFO thread. After taking to heart a lot of the suggestions folks made regarding the exposure of my WW to the OPS and family and filing for D, there were still some who kept coming back telling me to get my wife fired from her job, leave her with nothing and make her life miserable. This was even after I made it clear we still have a child living with us and none of those things would benefit her (or anyone else honestly). My wife not working not only makes it harder for my daughter, but means more worries for me that my daughter is in a safe stable place when she is with her mom and its less child support I'm paying if she is working. Even after making those points I still had people saying I should take all steps possible to ruin my wife and make sure she can't go back to the OP or continue supporting herself. I've already filed for D and she will either want to save the marriage or she wont. I can't control her and vengeance doesn't help anyone. Period.

Those folks are the ones who are still bitter about their own situations and are more concerned with rallying the peasants to storm the castle and burn the evil WS's than providing an empathetic response to the JFO poster who needs that empathy and wants to know their options.

[This message edited by savingmyfamily at 11:25 AM, April 22nd (Monday)]

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/22/2019 11:34 AM

Wishiwasnt, now your being accused of not giving it the old college try to R 11 years ago. No wonder you D'd. You rugswept and got angry from time to time. When your WW was trying so hard. She was trying so hard wasn't she?

It’s true. I never let go of the resentment and she didn’t even try to rebuild the trust looking back. For example, a couple f years ago she said she was having her wedding ring cleaned.
It turns out she pawned it. Secret laptop password..

At what point do you just stop spending so much energy holding your marriage together and just admit you made a mistake?You chose the wrong woman.

I stayed but now feel like I sacrificed my dignity. I do feel I made a better childhood for my kids. I made what I thought was the best decision at the time.

Cooley2here posted 4/22/2019 12:03 PM

I am going out on a limb here and making statements I can’t back up. Most posters on this thread are men writing to men.

Being humiliated is so tough for you that getting over it is nearly impossible. There are husbands/so who have because they can compartmentalize. Others never get over it.

I am a woman and, just like other women, I have had little indignities done to me my entire life. Something as simple as asking a rug shop to exchange shoddy merchandise became an embarrassment when no one would talk to me. I tried for days. My husband called and they were there in 30 minutes. I can give you a thousand more examples. It toughens us up so that we begin to believe “boys will be boys” because we have dealt with some form of discrimination all of our lives. You weren’t ready for it. Welcome to our world.

NotTheManIwas posted 4/22/2019 12:09 PM

You weren’t ready for it. Welcome to our world.

Ouch

HardenMyHeart posted 4/22/2019 12:23 PM

I stayed but now feel like I sacrificed my dignity. I do feel I made a better childhood for my kids. I made what I thought was the best decision at the time.
Hi Wishiwasnthereto, my d-day was almost 12 years ago and I would consider my marriage successfully R'd.

I completely understand where you are coming from, the decisions you made and why you feel you sacrificed your dignity. In my mind, you did not sacrifice your dignity. You are man of honor and you should hold your head up high for giving your children a better childhood. Some people will never understand that. I admire you for your courage, devotion and commitment. I wish you all the best as you transition into your new life.

timespent posted 4/22/2019 12:28 PM

I share your observations Cooley. For me, something does not sit well on this thread though and I'm not sure what it is. I'm a BW so I have no love for cheating women yet there seems to be some underlying implication that men are more redeemable than women after infidelity regardless of your POV. If I have misinterpreted I stand corrected. I truly do support each person here and do not envy any of you.

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