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11 year update

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Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/20/2019 17:29 PM

Thank you Josiep for your rationale and accurate analysis. The accusations of abusive and “dangerous “ and insulting to the host seems a bit dramatic and a little over the top.

And this.

But for anyone who's under age 50 and is betrayed? I say save yourself while you still can

I couldn’t agree more.

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 5:41 PM, April 20th (Saturday)]

ramius posted 4/20/2019 17:44 PM

It kind of seems like, if this thread was seriously “abusive” and dangerous, the mods would’ve moved it over to General by now.

NotTheManIwas posted 4/20/2019 19:10 PM

Hey Wish,

One final post (I think) on this thread from me.

I'm glad I waited to do this because Josiep pretty much nailed the issues. Look, man, I just want to say that I'm one of those who have, for the moment, chosen to stay with my cheater for reasons only known to me. Here's the thing, in spite of that, what you've had to say helps me "see" my circumstance with more clarity. I'm more focused and clear on what I'm actually dealing with day by day when your voice and those of others like you pipe up. I've said before that I come here to get and stay "mentally organized and behaviorally disciplined." All of the opinions I see contribute to that.

However, when a faction or segment pugnaciously goes low brow and bush league out of spite that theirs isn't the viewpoint heralded, it's disappointing. And it's particularly disappointing when they add to the screeching a broadcast of their admirable station in life to legitimize their petulant behavior here.

Dude, you rock for giving the M a legit chance, and you further rock for decisively moving on when your good faith attempts fell through. Props to you. And I'm proud to be on your team (virtually speaking).

Good on ya and stay with us.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/20/2019 19:32 PM

Nottheman, Thank you Brother. I sincerely hope your marriage has a better outcome.

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 8:22 PM, April 20th (Saturday)]

fareast posted 4/20/2019 21:11 PM

josiep:

Thank you for setting me straight. I am sorry if I mischaracterized your thoughts. I may be thick headed but I am not above some level of learning. My thought on this website was that it was designed to insure that any new betrayed coming through the muddle and fog of DDay or later, understand from our shared experience, actions that will help them get through this mess and to understand that they had options. Not just D. Not just R. But options. Apparently advocating that a newly betrayed be informed that they have options rather than just being told “if your spouse cheats, just leave” is being bellicose in favor of R. Apparently informing a betrayed that it is their life and their decision, and they will be supported here R or D, is only said out of weakness or vulnerability in the speakers own situation. Not out of a true concern to give a newly betrayed a full picture specifically tailored to their circumstances at a time of terrible devastation and confusion. I have read thousands of threads in JFO over the years. In a thread involving a new BH you will find many opinions: “you must file for “D” ,”Run”, and “get out fast”. All legitimate opinions and good advice based on the posters experience and beliefs. You will not see any post telling a BH that he must R. Doesn’t happen in my experience. But apparently informing a newly betrayed that D is an option but so is R, if, and only if the WS is willing to do the work, and recovery is difficult and will take 2-5 years. is an enthusiastic promotion of R. I disagree. I don’t agree that informing people of their options, R or D, is advocating for any result but apparently I am mistaken. I will bow to the wisdom of others. I was under a serious misapprehension of the purpose of this website. The mistake was mine alone. I apologize.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/20/2019 21:28 PM

“if your spouse cheats, just leave”

It’s not a choice. She already left.

Thank you though for your somewhat passive aggressive feedback.

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 9:33 PM, April 20th (Saturday)]

LtCdrLost posted 4/20/2019 21:37 PM

My comment, quoted by the member who authored the response below: Those who R'd with a cheating spouse and are pugnaciously defensive about taking that path.

You're suffering from a basic misreading of the texts.

My riposte: And you Sir, are suffering from a delusional perception of my POV. You chose your path, I chose mine. I have no need of justification for the path I chose to myself, to you, or to anyone. Your myriad of posts suggests otherwise about you.

[This message edited by LtCdrLost at 9:44 PM, April 20th (Saturday)]

timespent posted 4/20/2019 22:19 PM

At the risk of sounding trite, perhaps we could better spend our time supporting each other getting out of infidelity, however that may look like. For some it might take a day for others many years. At the end we come here for help dealing with our shitty circumstances. We don't always know what we need when we come here so thank you all for your sharing your experiences.

josiep posted 4/21/2019 05:59 AM

josiep:
Thank you for setting me straight. I am sorry if I mischaracterized your thoughts. I may be thick headed but I am not above some level of learning. My thought on this website was that it was designed to insure that any new betrayed coming through the muddle and fog of DDay or later, understand from our shared experience, actions that will help them get through this mess and to understand that they had options. Not just D. Not just R. But options. Apparently advocating that a newly betrayed be informed that they have options rather than just being told “if your spouse cheats, just leave” is being bellicose in favor of R. Apparently informing a betrayed that it is their life and their decision, and they will be supported here R or D, is only said out of weakness or vulnerability in the speakers own situation. Not out of a true concern to give a newly betrayed a full picture specifically tailored to their circumstances at a time of terrible devastation and confusion. I have read thousands of threads in JFO over the years. In a thread involving a new BH you will find many opinions: “you must file for “D” ,”Run”, and “get out fast”. All legitimate opinions and good advice based on the posters experience and beliefs. You will not see any post telling a BH that he must R. Doesn’t happen in my experience. But apparently informing a newly betrayed that D is an option but so is R, if, and only if the WS is willing to do the work, and recovery is difficult and will take 2-5 years. is an enthusiastic promotion of R. I disagree. I don’t agree that informing people of their options, R or D, is advocating for any result but apparently I am mistaken. I will bow to the wisdom of others. I was under a serious misapprehension of the purpose of this website. The mistake was mine alone. I apologize.

How about you post the way you want to on this site and I'll post the way I want to and everyone else post the way they want to and we all just mind our own business about how the other guy writes? How about we take it upon ourselves to contribute to conversations started by the newly betrayed that we think could benefit from our voice, our point of view instead of complaining about someone else taking the time to share their point of view?

When I made my first post, I had some replies that were very kind and very understanding and very nice. But the one that got me inspired was the one who said FTG. I didn't know what that meant so I asked and when she wrote again and told me what it meant, I was ecstatic. Someone was angry on my behalf. Someone realized the unfairness of what happened to me. Someone thought he was a schmuck of the highest order. THAT validated me because until that moment, I was still sitting here trying to figure out how I was going to save everything and everyone else. I was feeling that it was all my fault. But one person saying FTG was what I needed, just someone to be on my side, to recognize the jerkedness of the Rat Bastard.

Did I know that? Heck no. I didn't know what I needed. Actually, I didn't think I needed anything because I was just convinced my life was over and so why would I need anything? And although I feel totally different today, I remember at the time wanting to slap all those other helping hands away and just grab onto the one who said FTG. We all go through a process with this and everyone needs different things at different times. So I would say to you that perhaps it's best we keep serving the smorgasbord.


[This message edited by josiep at 6:01 AM, April 21st (Sunday)]

Wintergarden posted 4/21/2019 06:07 AM

I for one new to this site, have found this topic of interest and it does cover all points of view. All advice I have been given in my current situation has been to cut loose. It makes total sense in every way, but is still hard to do, and then to do it without false hope seems impossible. That's why I'm here. To get advice from others who never thought they could survive.

I'm pleased for every person that has had the opportunity to R. I wish I did. Any attempt to save a M is worth the effort.

fareast posted 4/21/2019 07:47 AM

josiep:

Thank you for that. It is very well said.

pureheartkit posted 4/21/2019 08:47 AM

I am thankful for anyone who offers some kind words and clarity. I remember my first days here. I was afraid. I knew nothing of the cheaters handbook, the fog, cheating addiction and brain chemistry. I was wrapped in sorrow and stress.

Anger was not a large part of my experience. In fact, I have been seeking to get anger out of my life for some time now. I see where anger can get us to make needed changes. Many times I see anger lead to quick decisions that don't lead to better things. We always need to be careful with anger. It's a powerful force. I realize many people feel their anger is justified. I would say, use your angry feelings to find the truth of your situation and then bring yourself to a place where you can heal. For me, to remain in anger is holding yourself back from the better place you could be.

This may be not what some newly arrived BS wants to hear but it is a truth and so I believe it has a place here. The healing library is there for this purpose and I'm glad it is there for everyone.

My own view is that the world is a divided place. We need everyone's voice. I am hoping that those still in pain years after can find some peace. It's not easy to let those hurt feelings go. Please listen to some old timers who have done this. It can be done. It's comforting to bond with others and express pain, especially at first. Please do not remain there too long. We are all here to offer some way through this confusion and destruction. I do not wish to see anyone pushed away or minimized. I only want to see us getting stronger together. I want to see us healed of our pain.

This,world. This fractured world full of good people, hurt people, angry people, healed people, people of wide experiences and sufferings. We need each other more than ever now. We cannot lose a one.

Offer what you have. I will offer what I have. R is so hard. I believe it is the hardest path after limbo. I appreciate anyone who has walked that path. Even if leads to a second d day, still, I believe it was a good path if it was chosen in good faith. It is the intention of the heart and not the outcome that is the most important. Wouldn't we all like to be sure of the outcome. I will go with love and understanding and be at peace with my decision. I am not afraid of the outcome.

Western posted 4/21/2019 14:37 PM

I appreciate Josiep's fire and agree with most if not all of what she says

sisoon posted 4/21/2019 15:06 PM

And you Sir, are suffering from a delusional perception of my POV. I have no need of justification for the path I chose to myself, to you, or to anyone. Your myriad of posts suggests otherwise about you.
Ah, yes. You're misreading the texts.

I don't see anyone attacking the path you chose for yourself. I see only an argument between those who say folks who have JFO should D immediately and those who tell folks who JFO to look at all options.

I don't know if I posted on your initial thread, but I remember contemplating a post to say you don't have to choose D. If I did post, it was to the effect that I didn't think you were looking at the whole picture. In any case, I certainly said nothing aimed at directing you to R.

If you think advising someone to consider both R and D is an argument for R - and there are indications you do - you're mistaken. Just map out the logic.

[This message edited by sisoon at 3:56 PM, April 21st (Sunday)]

NotTheManIwas posted 4/21/2019 17:49 PM

I don't see anyone attacking the path you chose for yourself. I see only an argument between those who say folks who have JFO should D immediately and those who tell folks who JFO to look at all options.

And here I thought that I was done posting. Except... what's said above is so intellectually dishonest and disingenuous.

What follows is from your first post, and specifically calls out LtCdrLost.

The idea that reconciling oneself to having sexually shared ones spouse somehow improves a marriage is to me, ludicrous.

People like sex. People are imperfect. Demanding perfection in this one thing smacks of unnecessary fear - fear of women and fear of other men.


To characterize yourself and your ilk as the benign purveyors of the "options" contingent is incredibly loose with the truth. To say you and yours simply provide an alternative opinion to the "D" crowd falls so very short of honest. And you are self righteously pompous to boot.

You make your bones by continuously highlighting something another poster said, and disparaging it. You castigate thems that say anything contrary to your value system.

Take a clue from Josiep...

How about you post the way you want to on this site and I'll post the way I want to and everyone else post the way they want to and we all just mind our own business about how the other guy writes? How about we take it upon ourselves to contribute to conversations started by the newly betrayed that we think could benefit from our voice, our point of view instead of complaining about someone else taking the time to share their point of view?

ETA: and by the way, this is laughable...

Just map out the logic.

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 6:05 PM, April 21st (Sunday)]

LtCdrLost posted 4/21/2019 20:17 PM

That person, posting as a member, has shot passive aggressive BS in my direction repeatedly. I'll let others speculate as to why that might be...

[This message edited by LtCdrLost at 8:23 PM, April 21st (Sunday)]

LtCdrLost posted 4/21/2019 20:19 PM

ETA: and by the way, this is laughable...

Just map out the logic.

Yes. Literally laughable. Smarmy also describes it.

Cooley2here posted 4/21/2019 21:06 PM

Genetics + childhood. If you are a person who holds a grudge then move on. If you don’t then look at your options. Reconciliation is too simple a word for what a bs has to overcome but many do. Is your ws a chronic liar? Is your ws a narcissist? How long was the affair? Was it just sex or emotional as well? No two marriages are alike and neither are the spouses.
When all is said, and done, people cheat because they want to. It’s fun. If it wasn’t they wouldn’t do it.

ChamomileTea posted 4/21/2019 22:04 PM

Sorry to say, but when a poster is so mired in his own opinion that he feels the need to refer to Sisoon as "your ilk' or agrees with that assessment, it's time to take a step back and reassess one's value in his own opinion. I have never witnessed Sisoon to be anything less than kind in his posts. That is, unless one is
cherry-picking to feed some kind of manufactured grievance.

People are different. There's no right or wrong method which suits everyone. What's right for me might be wrong for you, and vice versa. That's hardly call for this kind of vitriol.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/22/2019 03:18 AM

people cheat because they want to. It’s fun.

I agree. But there’s more to it. I believe XWW is sorry she was caught and caused so much pain but Looks back at it as an exciting time. There are other ways to have fun. You have to be incredibly selfish and entitled to cheat. It demonstrates a complete lack of moral character. That’s why it’s an up hill battle to R.

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