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11 year update

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fareast posted 4/10/2019 09:45 AM

Ditto.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/10/2019 09:56 AM

The outrage over the generalizations made in this thread have less to do with SI's rules of engagement, and more to do with taking what's said personally
.

My thoughts as well. When I read a post with concern for others feelings I wonder if itís their own feelings they are talking about. If my post strikes a nerve perhaps you should reevaluate your relationship. Looking back I know I stayed in the marriage way too long. I was trading the lesser pain of being with someone who broke the trust in order to avoid the massive pain of D. Itís been 11 months since I filed for D. Iím just now seeing happiness in my future and know Iíve avoided future betrayal.

HouseOfPlane posted 4/10/2019 10:04 AM

OP wrote

Know this.
One of life's epiphanies for me was realizing that 99% of what we "know" in life we don't actually know. We just think we know.

Age for me has brought enlightened ignorance.

NotTheManIwas posted 4/10/2019 14:54 PM

I was trading the lesser pain of being with someone who broke the trust in order to avoid the massive pain of D. Itís been 11 months since I filed for D. Iím just now seeing happiness in my future and know Iíve avoided future betrayal.

Hey, Wish, the guy posting the "Please help me it hurts so much" thread could stand to hear these exact words from you.

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 2:55 PM, April 10th (Wednesday)]

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/10/2019 15:05 PM

Iím on it.

Jimmy1962 posted 4/10/2019 18:13 PM

My wife cheated 20 years ago and I recently found out. If it happens again or has happened before and I find out, she is gone. Long gone! This one time almost killed me. I Will Not go thru this again.

Western posted 4/13/2019 07:28 AM

I truly appreciate WishIwasnt's thread and posts and largely agree with him, Ramius earlier on and Nottheman.

I have always felt that infidelity doesn't make a marriage better. Stats show it is a major force in destroying marriages. It, IMO, doesn't make a marriage better. Maybe the work one puts in to rebuilding can make, IMO, a bad marriage better and I am not saying that every marriage where there is infidelity was bad to start with but with that said, there is something horrible broken with someone who cheats in a good marriage and then expects R. Again IMO.

As GoldenR said, I went through a false R and that has tainted my view on R, though I am not saying it isn't possible. However, when I scroll through the R board here to see how people cope, it saddens me with all the pain I see there. The effort they put in is massive and the cost and pain associated with it in many cases baffles me though I do wish them the best.

To me, I could never consider R again. I don't think it's worth it and of all my family and friends that I know who have had their marriages ripped apart by infidelity (perhaps 20 or so) all but three have ended in divorce and one of the three is miserable and one has been rugswept horribly. So based on my personal observations, unless there is some very special factor, it's a no go.

Nottheman, I agree with you regarding the accusations of generalizations. Every thread I see on SI has 'generalizations'. It's very hard to post or have a conversation with anyone in public without generalizing. I get the rule here and I applaud the moderators for their latitude and understanding in these threads because if it was strictly enforced, most of the contributors here would have been banned a long time ago. Me included. T/J over.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/14/2019 19:19 PM

Hi Western, thank you for your response. I think itís important for those who just found out to know what theyíre up against.
I was in dennal for many years. Betrayal at that level is unforgivable in my opinion. Believe me I tried.

Western posted 4/15/2019 13:49 PM

Wish, I hope the divorce settlement favors you. You definitely deserve it because of all the pain she put you through.

Better days lie ahead now that you are out of infidelity.

I hope she wasn't cheating on you the whole time and I hope the OM got homewrecked on his side too

sisoon posted 4/15/2019 15:41 PM

They should go into R eyes wide open, not listening to their Waywards' words, and sans hopium. They are helped going into it with a critical eye, a guarded heart, and the full context of SI as a backdrop.
Where do you see advice to listen to Waywards' words? Where do you NOT see advice to watch one's WS's actions?

Look, about 50% of marriages end in divorce. About 50% of marriages experience infidelity. I'm imagining there's a large intersect there. Throw in the "staying together vs. happily now married" component and it's not a stretch to say that the math doesn't favor a "happily now married R."

1) The best data we have is the General Social Survey. I never studied statistics & probability, but I believe the number of Ms affected by infidelity is about 40%.

2) What is wrong with 'staying together'? It's apparently viewed as more desirable than D by those who do it. It's not my ideal, but I don't run anyone's life but my own.

3) We know a whole lot of Ms experience infidelity, and a whole lot don't. We also know a whole lot of Ms end in D, and a whole lot don't.

But I think just about everyone is shocked in one way or another on and after d-day.

That means folks who JFO for the most part won't know whether they're among those who will R (or D) or those who won't.

And folks who respond to JFO members know even less about the future of new JFO members.

So IMO it's a whole lot better to greet new members with 'you've got a lot of options' than with 'all cheaters cheat again, and you should ignore the option of R' - which is how this thread started.

Bigger posted 4/15/2019 16:12 PM

Physical infidelity actually scores low in the given reason for divorce. Communications and financial infidelity score higher.
The reason possibly being that too many do what the OP did: Remain married for some reason without doing the work required to reconcile. If OP divorces now then IMHO itís not because of the infidelity 11 years ago, but rather the inability to communicate truthfully for 11 years.
Not unless his wife was in the know and accepted that the marriage would be over when the kids turned 18.

Marz posted 4/15/2019 16:37 PM

I stayed for 11 years. Thinking we could make it to the end.
One day last year I had that gut feeling again. I asked her for her laptop password and she refused.

Nope, looks like OP got a second dose of infidelity

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/15/2019 17:53 PM

a whole lot better to greet new members with 'you've got a lot of options
'

There are plenty of greetings saying you have options. Iím just giving my personal perspective. And Iíve earned it dam it! Iíve survived infidelity.

When I first joined 11 years ago I remember vividly how I said this is not my Wifeís character. Weíve been active in Church for decades. The overwhelming response was that it IS her character! Time has proven that to be true unfortunately.

So, Iíll disregard the negative comments. I know Iíve helped a few here and that is very satisfying.

NotTheManIwas posted 4/15/2019 18:42 PM

Where do you see advice to listen to Waywards' words? Where do you NOT see advice to watch one's WS's actions?

And by this you are implying that my quote lays claim that JFO's are hearing the opposite. Didn't say that. Read this again...

They should go into R eyes wide open, not listening to their Waywards' words, and sans hopium. They are helped going into it with a critical eye, a guarded heart, and the full context of SI as a backdrop.

And this one...

2) What is wrong with 'staying together'? It's apparently viewed as more desirable than D by those who do it. It's not my ideal, but I don't run anyone's life but my own.

Again, I've never said 'staying together' is a wrong choice. What I am saying is this...

They should go into R eyes wide open, not listening to their Waywards' words, and sans hopium. They are helped going into it with a critical eye, a guarded heart, and the full context of SI as a backdrop.

IDK, sounds like we're talking about distinctions without a difference.

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 6:43 PM, April 15th (Monday)]

ramius posted 4/15/2019 23:18 PM

When I first joined 11 years ago I remember vividly how I said this is not my Wifeís character. Weíve been active in Church for decades. The overwhelming response was that it IS her character! Time has proven that to be true unfortunately.

Your wife could not police herself. She stepped out again. She appears to be a serial cheater. That is on her.

It has nothing to do with whether or not you "Did the work to R" Its not your job to save her from herself. She is a grown woman. She can deal with the consequences of her choices.

Is she trying to get you back?

Marz posted 4/15/2019 23:45 PM

I've managed @ 750 people at a time over multiple department levels.

I've heard some people can change their character. I've never seen it.

From what I have witnessed is some can manage/control it but those core character traits remain.

Western posted 4/16/2019 12:16 PM

I was looking at Bigger and Sisoon's posts above and they are right to an extent that the numbers regarding divorce and infidelity seem to come from a wide range of sources and often aren't consistent. I saw this the other day and found it interesting. Here is what it said

While adultery is no longer a deal breaker in many marriages, infidelity is one of the top cited reasons♂ couples decide to get divorced.
ēThe experts at Divorce Magazine♂ note that about 45-50 percent of married women and 50-60 percent of married men cheat on their spouses.
ēAccording to the American Psychological Association♂ (APA), infidelity in the United States accounted for 20-40 percent of divorces.
ēThe APA also cited that 42 percent of divorced individuals reported more than one affair.
ēIn a Gallup♂ poll, researchers noted that more than half (sixty-two percent) of partners say they would leave their spouse and get a divorce if they found out their spouse was having an affair; 31 percent would stick it out and not divorce.
ēHowever in reality, Divorce Magazine notes that about 70 percent of couples actually stay together after an affair is discovered.
ēAdultery is still one of the most cited reasons for divorce. According to a study published by the National Institutes of Health♂, one partner in 88 percent of couples studied cited infidelity as a major contributing factor. Interestly though, the vast majority of couples who divorced only had one partner share infidelity as a major issue.


I know what I will do if it happens to me again and decisively

LifeisCrazy posted 4/17/2019 09:07 AM

I appreciate both sides of the conversation... but I really do believe that there remains a conversation that needs to be had... particularly for the JFO crowd.

That conversation supercedes the "they'll cheat again" discussion AND the "give them their due chance to change" argument. And THAT discussion is centered around this... what the REALITY of reconciliation looks like.

I have been on these boards for a pretty long time... and have been happily reconciled for almost 7 years. The truth is, however, I've NEVER heard of a single BS - myself included - that is so fully reconciled that the affair does not play SOME role in their ongoing life. Whether it be a periodic trigger, the way they approach their life, a shorter tolerance to their spouse's eventual shortcomings (non affair-related), or simply a fundamental preparedness to leave a marriage that they previously would never have contemplated.

Infidelity can be survived - but will never go away. THAT is a message that the newly betrayed should hear. So many, when they first show up here, ask the same question, "Will I ever be able to get over this?" Well, shouldn't THEY be asked, "Are you prepared, really prepared, to live with this betrayal for the rest of your life? Are you the sort of person who is capable of doing that?"

On the flip side, I did want to provide a converse way of looking at this. My wife appears to have done it... to be that odd WW who has truly done the work. But has she? Is it conceivable that, down the road, I could find out (like the OP) that she's just been another woman who couldn't change her character?

I've thought about that for years. And, of course, it IS possible. But let's think about this for a second. ANYTHING is possible. I could divorce, remarry, and discover that my NEW wife has a ton of baggage herself. Let's face it, at the end of the day we're all putting a lot of faith in another human being that, for all intents and purposes, we can't look inside.

My wife, however, I do know a lot about. I know her shortcomings and I know that she is AWARE of what another infidelity will cause. I know that she has stayed in the marriage because she wants to... not because she has to (just like me). And, of course, there's that little old thing called love that still works its magic.

So, again, I see both sides of the coin. And the newbies here should see/hear both sides. But the sides should be based in reality.

NotTheManIwas posted 4/17/2019 09:20 AM

"Are you prepared, really prepared, to live with this betrayal for the rest of your life? Are you the sort of person who is capable of doing that?"

My wife appears to have done it... to be that odd WW who has truly done the work. But has she? Is it conceivable that, down the road, I could find out (like the OP) that she's just been another woman who couldn't change her character?

I've thought about that for years.

Well said, brother. Divorce is divorce, finito, but there are so many variations on staying together. And for the vast majority of us, attempting reconciliation makes the infidelity a/the central theme of the marriage going forward. Even if you get to the point where you don't speak of it again. It's there.

And Newbies should understand that. I'm imaginining the OP wanted this hammered home.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/17/2019 12:09 PM

I could divorce, remarry, and discover that my NEW wife has a ton of baggage herself

This is why many of us chose the uphill battle of R. The feet of being alone. Or the high possibility of making another bad choice and ending up in the same place. Itís not like there are
lots of great singles lined up on the street just to be scooped up at this age. Nearly all of them, including myself have been severely wounded from previous relationships.

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 12:14 PM, April 17th (Wednesday)]

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