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In a Limbo

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mooney posted 2/24/2019 11:26 AM

Its been hard, waiting and hoping this was just a dream.......

He has not contacted me again since the 21st February. Initially it made me think if i was wrong to leave???
Maybe i should have been patient and talked without shouting at him???
Maybe i should have handled it differently???
From being too happy together to NC is making me think and question myself often now.
I was loyal and honest and loved him so much...
What did i do wrong? Why should he treat me so horribly am i that bad a person?? to make him not even want to give an explanation from his part about the A.
The truth is because i really did not expect such a response from him, i hoped he would own up to his mistakes and at the least explain why??

Not knowing in itself is not letting me move ahead...to decide on what to do next??
Should i call him and ask??
or should i forget that he even exists and move on until he contacts me ?
He is making me feel like i was wrong. I am trying to be strong but its getting harder and harder. Its hard to accept the reality about him. Though i know what he did is wrong and that i should decide my future, i still at the very back of my mind hope he would give me an earnest answer and ask for R.I know its totally not happening but i still have this thought.

Did anyone feel like this??how were u able to deal with it??

Robert22205https posted 2/24/2019 13:12 PM

Every thing you feel....every question you ask yourself and self doubt is normal.... the sole killing pain and uncertainty is normal.

Do not call him. You did nothing wrong. You need to remove yourself from infidelity. It hurts but stay the course.

Robert22205https posted 2/24/2019 13:15 PM

o make him not even want to give an explanation from his part about the A.
The truth is because i really did not expect such a response from him, i hoped he would own up to his mistakes and at the least explain why??

Just more evidence that he is not good life partner material. You can not control him or make him be a good safe husband.

You can't control the outcome. All you can do is take care of yourself.

Stevesn posted 2/24/2019 13:21 PM

Please read my and other’s posts on the previous pages again. We’ve given you a.roadmap to use.

It’s simple but in NO WAY easy.

If you talk to him one last time you tell him there will be requirements for working on the marriage.

These include he works weekly with a therapist for a year or more as to why he could do this. He also writes a full written timeline of the affair. He reads the books “not just friends” and “how to help your spouse heal from your affair”. He has to figures out how to prove he read them (write a summary of each chapter?) and discuss them with you. And he writes you an apology letter in which he tells you what it would mean to have a second chance from you.

Then you go about your business, leaving him behind. Start working with a lawyer and get yourself a therapist to work with (hopefully not one that says a wife should be subservient to her cheating WH).

Start rebuilding your life on your own. It’s up to him if he wants to meet your needs in order to start reconciliation. You can’t control him and his actions, so don’t try.

If he comes to you saying he will work as hard as he can to make you feel safe in the marriage again, then great, you can see how well he does. If he doesn’t, then work on you and your own path to happiness. It’s all you can control.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 1:22 PM, February 24th (Sunday)]

The1stWife posted 2/24/2019 13:39 PM

IF you take him back on his terms - this will signal YOU will accept this behavior and treatment as is.

He will not do any work. He wil not admit any fault.

Call him? Don’t do it. You need to remain strong AND detached.

k8la posted 2/24/2019 13:42 PM

He is trying to power-play you back into submission. As dates get closer to events that will shame him for being without you, he will change tactics to get you back into your role as his wife.

Check with your legal system; is there a way to annul a marriage instead of divorce? Since he has been cheating the entire time you've been married, could you approach from the place that the wedding is invalid?

NoOptTo posted 2/24/2019 15:43 PM

Mooney,

You have handled yourself very well with the situation you have to deal with. A manipulative non remorseful WH. He is very much considered a taker. You seem to be a giver. You try to please him. All he does is take things. Its all about him. He will continue to play you. Make you feel slas if you are wrong. He wants all the FACTS of his AFFAIR rugswept away without any consequences. He is showing you through his actions how little he thinks of your marriage.

Only you can decide whether you want to tolerate this in your life or not. If you choose to go back to him, hopefully you demand he goes No Contact with OW. Telling OW family with your proof should help in that area. He gets into IC to figure out his whys. But it will be useless as long as he is not remorseful for his actions.

If you choose to D, having him served at his cousins wedding with the grounds of infidelity would be fitting. He wont be able to hide from consequences then. And it will show his cousin that marriages can fail if both spouses aren't truly committed to each other.

HeHadADoubleLife posted 2/24/2019 22:47 PM

So sorry you are here mooney!

Many others have given you great advice for getting out of infidelity. I suggest you re-read Stevesn's posts, he has outlined very clearly a path you could take to help you.

Know that all of your feelings are normal. Your brain is trying to come up with reasons for why all of this happened, which is why you start to question yourself.

However, absolutely none of this is your fault, and you have to keep reminding yourself of that!

He is trying to make YOU take responsibility for HIS wrong doing. It is unfortunately what most wayward spouses do. But every time you find yourself with feelings of self-doubt, remind yourself that none of this is your fault, there is nothing you could have done differently to keep him from having an affair.

And you are certainly not wrong for leaving and going to your parents house. It is incumbent upon him and him alone to prove that he deserves a chance at reconciliation.

Your husband is trying to guilt you into coming back so he can save his own reputation. He is not showing any remorse whatsoever. He is not considering your feelings at all.

Also, no matter what he says, remember that he KNOWS his actions were wrong, otherwise he would not have hid them from you. Blaming it on you makes him temporarily feel better, because deep down he knows he is the one in the wrong.

I would guess that this guilt game he is playing has worked for him in the past. Either with you, or with other women. He is trying to get you back before his cousin's wedding so that he does not look bad. DO NOT GIVE IN TO THIS!

I have to agree with k8la here:

He is trying to power-play you back into submission. As dates get closer to events that will shame him for being without you, he will change tactics to get you back into your role as his wife.

I will warn you that I would bet that the closer the wedding gets, his tune will start to change. He may start acting remorseful in an effort to get you back so that he does not look bad at the wedding.

Because of this, I would say that if you do speak to him and give him some conditions for R, one of the things you mention should be that you will NOT attend his cousin's wedding, no matter what. If he is truly remorseful, he will be okay with this, as a truly remorseful spouse will think more about his wife's feelings than his own, and he will recognize how hurt you are and will be okay with you not going.

If, however, he responds to this demand of yours with anger and more blame-shifting and guilt, you will know that his "remorseful" actions were all just a way of trying to force you to submit to what he wanted.

mooney posted 2/27/2019 05:21 AM

thank you all for your support....it is helping me to see things clearly to make a decision.

He(WH) called me once to ask what is my decision? He said it was i who left so its up to me but he not interested in breaking our relationship.

When i asked(multiple times) my WH is there any truth about the explanation he gave me his answer was "you can assume it to be false" when i demanded a yes or no he still told u can keep it as false....we fought and i told him to not call again

Later the next day my in laws called me and asked me to forgive him this once and to move back with him.I told them a big NO.They said that my WH is sad and he is not eating properly so i am supposed to get back with him.

I feel like i never knew these people though i lived with them for 7 months.This is pure agony to not know what to decide on??
I am confused and scared to come to the conclusion that is so obvious and suggested by many of you here too.Where do i find the courage??
How were you all able to do it???

Stevesn posted 2/27/2019 06:06 AM

Mooney

Did you relay something like this to him? Like I wrote above?

If you talk to him one last time you tell him there will be requirements for working on the marriage.

These include
- he works weekly with a therapist for a year or more as to why he could do this.
- He also writes a full written timeline of the affair.
- He reads the books “not just friends” and “how to help your spouse heal from your affair”.
- He has to figures out how to prove he read them (write a summary of each chapter?) and discuss them with you.
- And he writes you an apology letter in which he tells you what it would mean to have a second chance from you.
- provides full transparency of all devices, no password, deletes nothing and gives you his phone on demand
- turns on Find My Friends function on the phone so you can see where he is at all times
- writes a letter to his AP, THAT YOU REVIEW BEFORE HE SENDS, where he tells her to never contact him again. You watch him send it.

Then you go about your business, leaving him behind. Start working with a lawyer and get yourself a therapist to work with (not one that says a wife should be subservient to her cheating WH).

He needs to do these things willingly if he wants a chance to be with you.

If you struggle saying these things, send them in an email and copy his parents and yours.

You have done the right things here. Tell him this will just be the start of the work he has to do to rebuild and repair what he has damaged between you. This way it is not his fault again if he declines.

Have you contacted a lawyer, or found yourself a good therapist to work with? Fill your time doing those tasks instead of worrying about him.

I wish you continued strength.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:24 AM, February 27th (Wednesday)]

knucklehead posted 2/27/2019 06:52 AM

Dearest Mooney,

You are simply amazing. Your strength and grace are astonishing.

If I understand this correctly, you have moved back with your parents, after confronting your husband and in the face of his vehement denials of any current wrongdoing and his presenting your actions as unreasonable.

May I ask if you have sent anything in the way of the proof to either him, his parents, your parents, or your religious leader? If I am incorrect, I hope you will tell me so, but it seems that you have not shown this to anyone. It’s very powerful.

I can hear the stress that the situation is placing on you, and his parents not knowing the truth/him attempting to paint you as dwelling in the past and possibly fixated/unstable is not good for anyone. Your parents and family love you, but if they do not know the whole truth, they will also be under pressure by the customs of your culture to urge you to accept and move back.

May I make a suggestion? You seem very resourceful and intelligent. Would you be able to upload the Snapchat nude videos etc to a Dropbox account or other file sharing site? If you can, please do so. Then, I suggest sending an invitation via the file sharing site to his parents, your religious leader, and him, stating simply that you are not concerned about his life before his marriage to you, but that all of this is since his marriage to you and that in the name of truth, your name must be cleared of any blame. I would also suggest, although not as strongly, that you provide a link of this to the OW and to her parents. The OW may be ashamed to tell her parents, but she should know that she risks her entire future by allowing herself to take these actions. Not that any of us should give a toss about her. But it surely is something that you should weaponize, for your own peace of mind.

Even if your husband was willing to take any kind of action, its simply not in him to see himself for who and what he is. He wants you to bear that burden. I beg you not to take on his “sins.”

I wish for you a balm to your heart and soul, and know that we all here want your peace.

Stevesn posted 2/27/2019 07:23 AM

Mooney

I want to add to my thoughts on your thread here.

You said yours was an arranged marriage. Hopefully I don’t have that wrong.

I may be imagining things, but there seems to be a reason he did not marry his exGF when presented with the opportunity.

Perhaps his parents pressured him not to marry her. Perhaps they didn’t think it was a good match. Perhaps they didn’t like her or didn’t think she came from a good enough family.

Perhaps she cheated on him and he felt she would make a better “play partner” than a wife.

Whatever the reason he chose not to marry someone who held his heart.

If he is ever going to be a good partner to you he needs to work through these issues with a therapist.

You don’t want to be married to someone who wishes he was married to someone else.

So that is why it’s important you insist he get help with a therapist. And not one who believes a wife should be subservient to a cheating spouse.

While this was an emotional cheating, it should still be considered physical cheating as well. They exposed their private body parts to someone other than their spouses. They didn’t just talk about it, they did it thru an internet connection.

That is more than emotional.

Along with the requirements I laid out above, I would say something like this to him, modified by you to make more appropriate to your situation:

husband, we have an arranged marriage. As time has gone on I have fallen in love with you as expected. But you were not truthful to me when we married. Your heart already was given to another.

I need to be married to someone who has me in their heart as their one and only. I cannot be with someone who will spend his days dreaming about someone else.

The only way to prove to me that I am that person, and she is not, is to do the work to make me feel safe in our M. That includes the following list [give him the list from my post above].

Without doing that work I will never feel safe that my heart won’t be broken again. If you don’t feel you can do those things, then let me go. Let us divorce so we can both find our happiness in life.

We both deserve to be happy and not feeling bad about who we are married to.

I will watch your actions to know if you are serious about repairing what you have damaged so badly. Until I see these actions completed I will be following my own path out of our relationship.

I am deeply sad that you have done this. Until you care about my pain I am not interested in hearing from you again.

Mooney

Again if it’s easier for you to write and email this to him and his parents, do it that way.

A happy marriage and happy life is not possible spending it with someone who loves another. Until he works to truly find his love for you, you are better off working on your own happiness, without him.

I hope this helps a bit.

mooney posted 3/14/2019 01:45 AM

@Stevesn
Thank you for your kind words and clear course of action.I met him again on 10th march and asked for the details of his affair. He was not willing to disclose anything. He said as i knew what happened lets drop it and he promises that nothing like that will ever happen again.lets not discuss the past is his tag line to any detail i ask him. He says he loves me and he wants me to move back that very day. I knew i had to control my feelings but i lost it pretty soon hearing him tell the same thing over and over again.
I started shouting for details and for him to not lie again and again.He was calm collected and looked irritated and told his and my parents that he is sorry and he will not repeat it (he wont even refer to his affair as any thing) again.He told them that he is helpless and don't know what else to do as he apologized and promises to not stray again. He appealed to my parents to convince me to go back with them for which my parents refused and said its my decision to make.
I later became calm and asked him to go for IC regarding his porn addiction and EA lets wait for a year maybe and if i see ur efforts i will consider then. I asked him to call his AP and he said as he promised his parents that he will never talk to her ever again he won't call and tell her its over. He was not willing to do IC either.

He wont do anything i ask of him but he wants me to go back to be with him and see that he doesn't stray. He wont give me details of the affair either. I got angry and asked him to leave.

later that day i messaged him to change his behavior and to seek help.I even sent him a video link from 'Affair Recovery' on why the betrayed wants details.I explained the pain and agony he put me through and asked for him to confess the details of the A. I told him that i understand the shame and anger he is going through but i am in pain and hurting more.He replied that he is praying to god to change my mind and to make me go back to him. WOW that is a new height in spirituality

Now i am so worn out. I saw him message the OW that he loves her everyday and now how am i to believe the same words he says to me?
They(WH and OW) were in a relationship longer than me and my husband. I talked to the OW and she said that she asked him to marry her but he never said yes nor no to that.She knew that i was married to him but she still strip chatted with my WH because she loves him....
He was so loving and caring to me the whole time we were married but when i found out about the A i saw him as a different person when he was with his AP. Now after the D-Day i see yet another side of him i never knew.I don't know who he is anymore. At times i question myself if the person i loved and married exists or not.
Irrespective of the lengthy messages i send him explaining why he needs IC or what he needs to do to regain my trust its of no use his reply is please come back lets move on.I decided to further my studied and leave him to decide his way forward.

Its hard to move on because i love him and miss him all the same.He said i cant live without u and i miss u and i love u and i am sad without u to me as well as the OW. I saw a few messages where my WH blackmail the OW with their pics together so that she won't block his number.Now i question his morality and i am dumbfound to know the person he really is.
Am i wrong to not let it go??? the questions running around in my head are endless i don't have a closure yet.

WhatElseToDo posted 3/14/2019 02:36 AM

I'm so happy to see you sticking up for yourself! And it sounds like your parents are supportive as well. You are not wrong for wanting details, he is wrong for wanting to force you to accept his behavior blindly without explanation. He sounds extremely entitled. And like you said, him blackmailing the OW with her pics, show a very dark side. I know divorce isn't simple in your culture, but you don't have any kids yet.. it will be much more complicated if you have to deal with this down the road with young children. You deserve to have an equal partnership where your boundaries are respected and where your partner is accountable.

The1stWife posted 3/14/2019 06:59 AM

Mooney. I’m so sorry for the position you are in.

He makes empty promises. Typical cheater lies and patterns of behavior are:

It won’t happen again
There is nothing going on
Complete denial
Refusal to answer any questions
Lets just move forward
Refusal to do anything to address the issues

He is not a candidate for a successful reconciliation because he has no remorse.

He refuses to admit he did anything wrong 🚩
He won’t end the affair - he may just continue it but hide it better from you
He won’t attend counseling 🚩
He repeats the same thing over and over and that is “you left him” without admitting you had a reason to leave 🚩🚩🚩🚩

His ego is bruised and he is looking to save face. In my opinion THAT is the reason he wants you back.

You are seeing the real him. He’s NOT the guy you thought he was. He is the guy you see now. And the next conflict and the next conflict you will see the same behavior.

No discussions. No compromises. His mentality is “he is the man of the house” and you are expected to go along with his decisions.

Without him meeting any of your requests to address this affair - I believe if you return to his home you will end up unhappy over the long term b/c this issue will never be addressed. And it will be like a black cloud over your head. Every day.

So sorry for you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:01 AM, March 14th (Thursday)]

Stevesn posted 3/14/2019 07:42 AM

Mooney

It’s good to see you are still here and I’m again impressed with your strength. You are taking the steps you need to.

My recommendations are the same for you.

This time I’m going to chime in with others and say that with his continued attitude you should initiate the long D process. I hope your parents will continue to support you in this as I know it’s an extra difficult step to take in your culture.

Once started, I recommend you let him know that because of his unwillingness to really work to repair your relationship you no longer wish to be his wife.

Then tell him you are proceeding with this process until you see him show true remorse for his actions by doing what you need to heal from his infidelity.

Tell him you don’t want a marriage with someone in love with someone else.

Then again, I suggest you give him a list of things like this and tell him you will discuss it no further until he has done each of these things on his own and shown you irrefutable proof they have been completed.

These include
- he works weekly with a therapist for a year or more as to why he could do this. YOu meet with this therapist six months in and after a year to review his progress.
- He also writes a full written timeline of the affair.
- He reads the books “not just friends” and “how to help your spouse heal from your affair”.
- He has to figures out how to prove he read them (write a summary of each chapter?) and discuss them with you.
- And he writes you an apology letter in which he tells you what it would mean to have a second chance from you.
- provides full transparency of all devices, no password, deletes nothing and gives you his phone on demand FOREVER
- turns on Find My Friends function on the phone so you can see where he is at all times
- writes a letter to his AP, THAT YOU REVIEW BEFORE HE SENDS, where he tells her to never contact him again. You watch him send it.

Then Mooney, I suggest you go about moving on with your life. You deserve a happy one whether or not he is in it.

If he eventually says he will do the work you say “good, talk to me when you have completed it. Let me know how you are progressing”.

And you don’t stop if delay the D process in the meantime. It’s long so you should let it progress while he does the work.

Mooney honestly, if you want to have a true loving M with this man, built on trust, this is the only way to make it happen.

I’m sorry to say I’m not optimistic at all that he will do this for you. But you only get a short time on this planet, don’t waste it someone who won’t try and move the heaven and stars to repair what he damaged in your relationship.

Take care and keep posting.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:48 AM, March 14th (Thursday)]

mooney posted 3/18/2019 02:35 AM

I am so stressed out and i don't know if my WH is knowingly ignoring my suggestions or did he really not get it????

I texted him letting him know the list suggested by all of u (Stevesn and The1stWife) and tried to make him understand the pain i am in....

But yesterday he sent me a text telling that
1. He apologized to me in person and so did his parents to mine.(its an arranged marriage).
2. I have all the rights to scold him as i am his wife.
3.He says he doesn't know what else he could do.
4.He says he accepts my anger towards him and now that he has come back to me.
5.I might not know if he is changed or not and I will know it only when i go back and stay with him again.(I tell him its traumatic to have to be in the same room where he video chatted naked with the OW and he ignores that completely)
6.He knows that he is wrong and he apologized for that.
7.Jesus himself has forgiven sinners.
8.He says that i might have many questions in my mind and i will not get answers until i live with him again.
9.He says that i am his wife and i shouldn't runaway and its our life and we have to live happily.
10.I am supposed to think and call him back and he is ready to pick me up anytime.

I am trying hard to outline the need for my WH's IC and tell him i cant move forward without knowing the details of the A. I even said that he is robbing me of the choice to decide on what to do next. I send him videos and even told i understand the shame he feels so take some time and improve himself as a respectful and morally good person first. He simply doesn't reply to any of my questions or suggestions and always says please come back i am begging u.I tell him please don't text me certain words he used with his OW and its a trigger for me and he completely ignores.

He makes himself look helpless and like i am asking and expecting too much....at time i get confused and ask myself am i wrong to demand these from him????

He completely ignores my plea or suggestions and keeps portraying himself as some victim to a cruel person(me) who wont give him a second chance all because he asked sorry and promised it wont happen again.

I am out of my mind and going crazy....please help....


The1stWife posted 3/18/2019 05:10 AM

He is trying to guilt you and manipulate you to return to him.

Repeat - typical cheater moves against the Betrayed spouse are guilt and manipulation.

He is not remorseful as evidenced by:

He refuses to give you any answers 🚩 (or details)
He refuses professional counseling 🚩
His Only response is to make you feel guilty for leaving him (as if you had no right or reason to do so)🚩🚩🚩🚩

My suggestion is to respond in writing with the following:

I’m sorry you chose to cheat on me. However you are not willing to provide me with any answers or do anything I have asked to help to begin to make amends or repair the damage you caused. Based in that, I cannot and will not return to your home until you show me that you have changed. That is required for me to consider any type of reconciliation.

And then stop allowing him to control and manipulate you.

Stop responding to him except to say “I have not seen anything different from you. There is no evidence of any effort to change or provide me with the things I require to consider reconciliation.”

That should be your only response to him. Period.

If he chooses to repeat the same thing - you need to come home so we can be happy and live our life WITHOUT giving you any answers or providing any assurances he is addressing his issues that caused him to cheat, then you need to keep repeating “I have not seen anything different from you. There is no evidence of any effort to change or provide me with the things I require to consider reconciliation.

Do not let him manipulate you. If you return to him and give in to him, that is how you will live the rest of your life. He will trample you with his manipulative ways if you let him. Do not do it.

And at some point stop 🛑 video chatting or talking to him if he continues this game. His crying is fake IF he refuses to DO anything yiu request. Do not fall for it. He is not sorry he cheated - just that you caught him and left him.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:13 AM, March 18th (Monday)]

Edie posted 3/18/2019 11:12 AM

What did i do wrong? Why should he treat me so horribly am i that bad a person?? to make him not even want to give an explanation from his part about the A.

at time i get confused and ask myself am i wrong to demand these from him????

On the contrary, it is he who is making demands on you - that is why it is confusing. The arrogance of the man. Not to listen to you. It displays a complete lack of interest in your feelings or a proper healing of the marriage.

I was so happy when I read that you had gone back to your studying, and had told him that after a year you might consider R, IF he had done certain things. That was clear and consistent.

Have you read in the Healing Library about the 180? It is a way of helping you focus back on yourself (i.e. a 180 degree turn away from the spouse) and to stop being distracted and pulled off course by him. He doesn't want to give you an answer about why for a whole host of reasons - but the main one is he doesn't think you need that information. See the arrogance? How HE decides what information you need or don't need. He wants the marriage on his terms and his terms only. You have stated that you don't agree to his terms. In negotiation, you have stated your bottom line. You do not keep having to send him information about why he needs to see an IC or not. That is co-dependant behaviour (There's a very useful thread down in I Can Relate about co-dependancy which I believe you would find illuminating - or just google it). It's an impasse. You keep trying to persuade him of your terms, he keeps trying to persuade you of his. But the fact that you are still engaging suggests to him that there is negotiation, where in actual fact there is not.

I will bump the threads on the 180 for you. It is very important that you defocus from him and focus back on you - its sounds like he is trying very hard to keep himself in your 'sole' focus, he is perhaps a little silver-tongued even - please resist all his attempts. They are deflecting things back at you, to avoid looking at himself, to keep making you responsible for the marriage, which he detonated. He is still not taking any responsibility for fixing himself or the marriage. There is no negotiation. Withdraw from any semblance of it. Concentrate on your studies. See friends. Keep busy.

You can do this.

The1stWife posted 3/18/2019 16:11 PM

He wants the marriage on his terms and his terms only.

Edie sums it up nicely.

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