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Suddenly, she wants it

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NotTheManIwas posted 1/13/2019 13:37 PM

I was under the misapprehension that you wanted a range of female perspectives - and that you had a genuine interest in trying to understand female sexuality.

Edie, you are right. I'd not anticipated my reaction to what you ladies posted. Ridingitout's post struck a nerve. It reminded of my resentment. Know that I appreciate your time. I'm not in a place to follow your more empathetic counsel.

Edie posted 1/13/2019 13:40 PM

Thanks

You WILL feel better. I promise 😊

pureheartkit posted 1/13/2019 22:22 PM

Maybe find someone else who wants to be treated that way. It sounds like you are using her in a selfish way. Thats not love. Thats only getting what you want from someone. You know she doesnt like it but dont care.

DIFM posted 1/14/2019 05:56 AM

You know she doesnt like it but dont care.

I think he is in that toxic shistorm of a catch 22 that cheaters create in their BS's. Yes, he probably does know she doesn't like it and he may not care, but in the moment and in the rage that his cheating wife created, he is having a difficult time reconciling that he needs to do what she wants and be concerned about what she wants while suffering from the results of her not caring about the trauma she was creating from her A.

It is a simple concept he suffers under, one that many of us can directly relate to, and it is not limited to the topic of sex. He likely knows this will never resolve itself by waiting long enough for her come to a place where she wants it and likes it like he wants her to. He wants his cheating wife to do that "whatever it takes" thing that she is not going to do.

He knows she does not like it or want it, that is at the heart of his pain. All the reasons given are rational and on point, but the poison that she left in the wake of her A is not rational and the trauma that it created predictably results in exactly what NotTheManIwas is going through.

This is not a rational problem. It is a turmoil. I think many WS's are not even capable of translating what they see as superficial controlling demands to the very real and very deep underlying pain that are at the core of the demands (or some nay call them "needs).

NotTheManIwas, I am sorry you are going through this pain and hope you will be able to find a way that your wife can give you what you need, even if you have to modify what that need looks like.

Does she do all else that you need her to do: remorse, empathy, devotion, contrition, honesty, patience, etc?

oldtruck posted 1/14/2019 06:13 AM

In a marriage without affairs the level of sex has
been known to change over the years.

Being bitter about the affair in the past is keeping
you from enjoying that you have found the key to
getting your WW enjoying sex with you.

So ask you do you want sex with or to be mad at
your WW?

Edit to correct a typo and add that finding out
missing info it appears that you have a WW that
refuses to do the work to recover. You only want
sex your way.

There will never be any healing done in this
marriage.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 6:47 AM, January 15th (Tuesday)]

NotTheManIwas posted 1/14/2019 06:59 AM

DIFM wrote:

I think he is in that toxic shitstorm of a catch 22 that cheaters create in their BS's. Yes, he probably does know she doesn't like it and he may not care, but in the moment and in the rage that his cheating wife created, he is having a difficult time reconciling that he needs to do what she wants and be concerned about what she wants while suffering from the results of her not caring about the trauma she was creating from her A.

He wants his cheating wife to do that "whatever it takes" thing

So, a week after D-day, in May 2016, my wife was with her brother that we are particularly close to (she is one of six siblings in a good Catholic family), and confided in him that I was unhappy with her for fucking it up. He didn't get all the details, but he did give her very sage advice. He told her "sis, all I can tell you is love him hard now."

Such simple and yet well-informed counsel.

For the next year or so she did the exact opposite. She became detached, aloof, and seemed dispassionate as she watched her formerly strong husband unravel into a shell of the man he was.

Fast forward to the Fall 2017, and know that plenty else happened in the interim, a full year before I stumbled onto the SI community, I reached the absolute bottom of the barrel and could not stand what I was seeing in the mirror. I had that 'fuck this' moment.

Moving into the guest bedroom and beginning my version of a 180 was liberating and gave me a sense of some control in my life. I became aloof but maintained a civil roommate demeanor. I no longer pandered.

She is stubborn as hell and it took her over a year to approach me to talk about us. It was as if she'd been trying to wait me out.

So when pureheartkit writes:

It sounds like you are using her in a selfish way. Thats not love. Thats only getting what you want from someone. You know she doesnt like it but dont care.

Know that I'm unimpressed and imagine that she is empathizing along gender lines instead of feeling for the normal ravaged aftermath of a BH. The other ladies on this thread have counseled along the lines of understanding. They've related how they as women have physically/emotionally evolved into their 50's. That is constructive.

Have I become somewhat callous? Yup. It's called self-preservation

@DIFM, in answer to your last question, yes, she's making an effort now (about 2 months), but I'm in 'wait and see' mode. I'm paying strict attention to the SI community's mantra of "believe her actions, not her words."

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 7:01 AM, January 14th (Monday)]

Thanksgiving2016 posted 1/14/2019 07:30 AM

I canít have sex with my husband if I donít feel loved. I have never had an affair but from a womanís perspective the ďporn star sexĒ I can only imagine happens because the female AP feels extremely attractive to her AP. FWIW I think you may actually be more successful if more anger is expressed outside the bedroom. If I feel my husband is hot for me, not just sex but me, Iím going to be really into it. And I need a little notice because he may be thinking about getting laid all day and I may be thinking about all of he chores I need to do after work. I ask that if heís in the mood that he send me a message so I can adjust my thinking accordingly and I do the same for him if Iím in the mood. I think that maybe the fact that you have been communicating more and possibly with less hostility combined with your different approach made her feel closer to you and loved which lead to her excitement. I wish you the best.

[This message edited by Thanksgiving2016 at 7:32 AM, January 14th (Monday)]

BluesPower posted 1/14/2019 08:21 AM

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:21 PM, February 8th (Friday)]

Edie posted 1/14/2019 08:58 AM

Further, menopause, is not it.

Only in your opinion, and spot sample of one woman.

Speaking for myself, most of my friends, and the few women whoíve responded to the thread, the menopause was a bit of a shock on top of other aging crap. But its effect can be mitigated against with the right attitude and circumstances and its disadvantages turned into some kind of positive. Itís a particularly unhelpful and unfair factor if you are a couple trying to recover from infidelity and needs acknowledgement and strategy, intelligence & understanding for both woman and man.

[This message edited by Edie at 8:59 AM, January 14th (Monday)]

pureheartkit posted 1/14/2019 09:16 AM

You have anger and now an I dont care stance. Call it what it is and dont expect any happiness or desire from her while you are being this way.

Some women dont care if they have love during sex. I think its the best part. You seem to be able to go without it and expect your wife to do the same.

Menopause is vastly different for each woman. You cant take someone elses experience and apply it to her.

DIFM posted 1/14/2019 09:26 AM

NotTheManIwas is getting great input and insight about what it takes for a woman to show she wants to have sex with a man and what he might consider doing in order to get her to show that she wants him.

It seems we are advising the BS to give his WS what she needs in hopes that his WS might at some point return in kind. I believe that if NotTheManIwas was a BW, vs a BH, and was here saying that she wants to feel loved and desired in very specific ways from her WH, but the only way her WH will show her what she needs is if she has sex with him the way he wants it, I doubt we would be advising her to understand how the male brain works and how sex for him may result in him showing her the things she wants to see, therefore she should have sex with him the way he needs. I think the majority here would be saying her WH is a jerk to expect sex from his BW in order to give her back what she needs and what he took from her in his A.

Has anyone seen this type of advice given to a WW: give in to your WH's sexual needs because that is how to get a man to show love back? It seems the general consensus is support for WW's holding out on sex until the WH demonstrates love the way she needs to see it. I think in either case, where a WW is not able or willing to go all out for her BH or a WH is not willing to do whatever it takes to show how much he loves and desires his BW, in those cases, it is likely a long, losing battle that may never be won.

NotTheManIwas, I don't think you will be able to give your WW what is being suggested, any more than a BW could give her WH what he said he needs, as condition to get back what she needs. That takes a willingness to be vulnerable and the WS's have already shown that is a terribly unsafe position for the BS to take, at least until the WS has demonstrated they will give or show what is needed.

You still feel too unsafe to be vulnerable enough to do what your WW needs, in exchange for a hope that she might reciprocate in the way you need.

[This message edited by DIFM at 9:32 AM, January 14th (Monday)]

NotTheManIwas posted 1/14/2019 09:28 AM

pureheartkit, you truly are tone deaf. How about you take a moment to read DIFM's post...

I think he is in that toxic shistorm of a catch 22 that cheaters create in their BS's. Yes, he probably does know she doesn't like it and he may not care, but in the moment and in the rage that his cheating wife created, he is having a difficult time reconciling that he needs to do what she wants and be concerned about what she wants while suffering from the results of her not caring about the trauma she was creating from her A.

Way to double down on that tone deafness...

GoldenR posted 1/14/2019 09:34 AM

I've sexually been with 3 post-menopausal females. All 3 were shocked at how "ready" I got them. All 3 realized they COULD still get crazy-freaky. I married the last one.

I know I can't speak all, but I think with many, it's about how into their sex partner they are and how sexy their sex partner makes them feel.

However, her cheating really throws a wrench into everything.

DIFM posted 1/14/2019 09:38 AM

I meant to add to the end of my previous post, that I think you may be at a crossroads of decision making. If she maintains this position, whether from an emotional or physical perspective, how much longer can you take feeling the anger and sense of rejection you are feeling. At some point, you may have to decide to move on with the M and detach from those needs/feelings, or end the M.

NotTheManIwas posted 1/14/2019 09:40 AM

DIFM, roger that. And thanks for taking the time to weigh in.

DIFM posted 1/14/2019 09:49 AM

.....I think with many, it's about how into their sex partner they are and how sexy their sex partner makes them feel.

I think you are correct and this is the basis for NotTheManIwas dilemma/great difficulty.

JT4588 was so helpful in giving us a view into this topic from her own experiences. Post menopause problems were less of a problem when the subject of desire is....well..... highly desirable.

GoldenR posted 1/14/2019 09:59 AM

My post sounds like I think I'm a sex God. I don't. Lol.

I think me being "new" helped me a lot as well. At least with the first 2.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 10:00 AM, January 14th (Monday)]

Edie posted 1/14/2019 09:59 AM

It seems we are advising the BS to give his WS what she needs in hopes that his WS might at some point return in kind

Ummm well, do you think itís going to work out if he gives her what she doesnít want?

NOLongerís situation is particularly vexed by the lack of communication from his WS and I applaud both his 180 and his genuine attempts to understand female sexuality and its changeability. He is doing this amidst a dearth of communication from his WS which leaves him trying to guess... this communication barrier needs breached by his FWS becoming much more forthcoming about her infidelity issues/ recovery (as this does not seem to be in place). Then ... should a sexual relationship begin to be recovered from the void, then of course he should be trying to please her sexually, itís part of the transaction (since you are placing it in transactional terms).

Butforthegrace posted 1/14/2019 10:08 AM

End of the day, R only works if both partners want it. In fact, it has been my observation that R works if the WS wants it as much or more than the BS wants it. Sounds like your WW doesn't want it, at least not as much as you do. You can't "make her" want it. You can't control her choices nor desires. You can only control you.

Therefore, it sounds like your decision is whether you want to continue living in dťtente.

ChamomileTea posted 1/14/2019 10:17 AM

It seems we are advising the BS to give his WS what she needs in hopes that his WS might at some point return in kind. I believe that if NotTheManIwas was a BW, vs a BH, and was here saying that she wants to feel loved and desired in very specific ways from her WH, but the only way her WH will show her what she needs is if she has sex with him the way he wants it, I doubt we would be advising her to understand how the male brain works and how sex for him may result in him showing her the things she wants to see, therefore she should have sex with him the way he needs. I think the majority here would be saying her WH is a jerk to expect sex from his BW in order to give her back what she needs and what he took from her in his A.

Has anyone seen this type of advice given to a WW: give in to your WH's sexual needs because that is how to get a man to show love back? It seems the general consensus is support for WW's holding out on sex until the WH demonstrates love the way she needs to see it. I think in either case, where a WW is not able or willing to go all out for her BH or a WH is not willing to do whatever it takes to show how much he loves and desires his BW, in those cases, it is likely a long, losing battle that may never be won.

Where do you draw the line though? At this point we're talking about simulated rape. What else could you call it when it's described thusly... "I like using my hands to hold her down, and fuck...hard. And for extended periods"???

Betrayed wives come in here all the time describing feelings of sexual insecurity. And you know what we do?... we deal with the sexual insecurity. We don't encourage them to act out in ways that are damaging to their goals and their psyche. This is tantamount to a BS becoming alcoholic after betrayal and the only way the WS can prove their love is to bring them drinks. Sexual insecurity is a problem to be solved, not to be encouraged as mere sexual preference.

And before some of you guys start howling about the term "simulated rape"... the statistics on rape are one in five women. One in five. If you're wondering why women are sensitive to force or even coercion, understand that violence toward women still persists in this world.

Oh, and some of you need to learn a little more about vaginas. Google is your friend. Try the keywords "vaginal atrophy menopause".

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 10:19 AM, January 14th (Monday)]

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