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Different perspective

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Stevesn posted 1/9/2019 10:44 AM

ATG

Sorry you have to leave paradise for reality. Hope you have an easy re-entry.

Trying out another man as your primary lover, realizing heís not for you. Leaving him.

That does not in anyway make you a safe spouse for the man you devastated. That doesnít make you a valid partner. That doesnít make you a good person. That doesnít make you a good parent. That doesnít make you a soul mate. That doesnít make you a wife.

After making such bad choices, the only thing that will make you those things again is Hard Hard Work over a number of years. Research on how to repair a marriage after infidelity, introspection thru therapy, selflessness and providing as much love and caring, most that will not be reciprocated at first, as you can are the only things that will give a Wayward a glimmer of hope of saving their marriage if thatís what they truly want.

I tell you this not because I think you dont know it. I know you do.

I tell it because your WW (STBXW) doesnít know it.

You have no obligation to tell her this. But if you do, it could go a long way in keeping her from bugging you with her little insignificant and misguided professions of regret. You need oh so much more over oh so long a period.

Keep on the path you are on. It will serve you well.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:46 AM, January 9th (Wednesday)]

NoOptTo posted 1/9/2019 18:49 PM

I hope your travel home was uneventful at the transfer point. Take some time to yourself now, continue on your path my friend. Wish you the best through this journey out of infidelity.

Atg100 posted 1/10/2019 08:27 AM

The flight home takes a while.
A late departure in Bali made me miss my connection from Perth to Brisbane.
The handover of the children to my stbxw and MIL took less than a minute.
I didnít look at or acknowledge my stbxw - she was not supposed to be there .
I spend the time in between my flights with one of my friends in Perth.
She is actually my stbxwís cousin. But I have known her and her husband now for more than 10 years ; this friendship will withstand our divorce.
Interestingly my friend told me that her sister, another cousin of my stbxw has been known about the affair for over a year.
So when the MIL tries to whitewash my wifeís image in the family , she wonít find a receptive audience.
My friend said that she is strongly on my side ; even at the risk of a rift in the family .
Not that this helps me in any way, but it is good to know that some people stand up for me.
Now on the red eye to Brisbane .

[This message edited by Atg100 at 8:55 AM, January 10th (Thursday)]

skerzoid posted 1/10/2019 08:55 AM

Atg100

1. You are wise to keep the separation going. As I understand it, Down-Under you are required to separate legally for a year before filing for divorce. Then I suppose divorce takes awhile.

2. Watch her actions closely. Talk is extremely cheap. Believe nothing of what you hear, and in a cheater's case, about 10% of what you see.

3. As you go on with your life, as you get back into the dating world, it will be extremely interesting to see her reactions.

4. "Don't give up on us yet" is an extremely weak approach from someone who killed a marriage as coldly as she did. I guess she will let you know when to give up.

5. She should be on her knees begging, snot nosed sobbing, texting for forgiveness, researching how to heal you, going to IC, and then not expecting to be forgiven without a miracle.

6. Sounds like Plan "B" should come at her beck and call. Disabuse her of that notion.

7. Strength, courage, & decisive action are your by-words now. Whether "R" or "D", let her remember how you stood against her crime with dignity and strength. Good luck with this. We are all rooting for you and hoping for healing for "the Good Doctor".

PS: I went back and read over your earlier posts. After all the chances and warnings you have given her, she has some nerve trying to get you to "R". Heartless B****! If she wants you to give it another shot, I would have her get in line with the other ladies after the divorce. I have a feeling the line will be pretty long

[This message edited by skerzoid at 9:26 AM, January 10th (Thursday)]

Mrhealed posted 1/10/2019 15:49 PM

Atg100,

The oposite of love is not hate, is indiference.

When you dont acknowledge your WW, It shows that you stil care. It gives her power.

IMO the ides is to be, and feel, totally indiferent regardin her. You can be civil and polite with her like any aquitance.

You are doing a great job!

AFL1000 posted 1/10/2019 18:01 PM

Hi ATG

Well in having to catch the midnight flight from West coast to East coast at least gives you the chance to catch up on lost sleep

My hunch proved right that your STBExW might turn up at the airport, so the late flight in from Bali and the handover of the kids meant there was little time to talk even if she thought she could engage you in conversation. So the delayed Bali fight was a blessing in disguise.

I am glad you have your wife's cousin in your corner but if your cousin's sister knew about the affair it begs the question how many other family members knew about it well before you did and for over a year. Well scratch a few more people off the Christmas card list!!!

Keep moving forward with your planned exit from this relationship. Better days are to come.

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 6:32 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]

Atg100 posted 1/10/2019 18:44 PM

Thanks
Well the messages which were sent in presence of the cousin where those I found myself and which started the whole process for me.
Yes, Iím disappointed that I wasnít told, but Iím not out to score points anymore.
Also, all of my wifeís family members who do know about the affair now, just rolled up their eyes when my MIL called each of them individually and stated that there was no affair.
They all have issues to be honest.
Why not be honest?
Why not say ď Mrs ATG made a huge mistake and is now getting divorced ď?
If my cousin would come with such a frank statement, I would not think highly of him.
But it would be better than trying to create an alternative reality, where everyone in the room knows , that itís a lie.
Where is the benefit of a strong family, if the help is only available if everything is nice.
I actually do think that my wifeís behaviour in part is due to those issues/insecurities.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 8:22 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]

Marz posted 1/10/2019 21:33 PM

Interestingly my friend told me that her sister, another cousin of my stbxw has been known about the affair for over a year.

Your wife may have been influenced but she made the decision. It sounds like whole family are all liars. Your Mil knows the truth as well.

You're heading in the right direction.

Don't do second place and put yourself back in limbo.

[This message edited by Marz at 9:34 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]

Atg100 posted 1/12/2019 15:09 PM

And now I am alone at home, the kids on the other side of the country.
By chance really, I went to a talk " How to build inner strength" last night.
It was by a Buddhist monk, which usually would not have been my first point to turn to.
Until now I have tried to deal with this situation, by being guided by my values - And that is still absolutely correct.

"Itís not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters"

- this quote has been my mantra, when dealing with my new found circumstances. And this monk's talk fitted in seamlessly with the attitude I want to take.
He spoke about acceptance - and I have accepted my new situation. He spoke about that the pain and unhappiness caused by my wife's actions, are by now created and maintained within my own mind.
I thought, that the enormous pain I felt, was so overwhelming, no way could I have been at inner peace during such crisis.

He gave the analogy : If you want to deal with betrayal and divorce by maintaining inner peace, that's the same as going to the gym as a newbie and starting to lift the heaviest weight straight away. Impossible.
He said - start by maintaining inner peace in traffic, that's a good beginner's weight - and work your way up.

Now I have to make the leap from being sad and grieving for my loss to see my divorce as an opportunity of self development and personal growth.

If it is Buddhist teaching ( and Christian values would fit in just as well ) or when reading the posts of people on the divorce thread - I strongly believe that this is the only way forward.

It frees me enormously.
I no longer need to look back, at my wife's betrayal. All this has happened and is now a fact.
But the positive attitude towards a better future for me and my children, that's all in my control.


Thanks for reading my rambling and thanks to everyone who cares and supports me.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 3:24 PM, January 12th (Saturday)]

NoOptTo posted 1/12/2019 15:48 PM

Funny how life works. We fi d validation in times and forms we least expect them. Just visiting the monks speech, showed you how well you have been doing with you STBXWW actions. You seem to be turning the corner towards your own growth as a person now and the future you envision for your children.

I wish you luck moving forward ATG. Life is what you make of it. Live for you and your values, you will find happiness.

Atg100 posted 1/14/2019 14:40 PM

Now a few days into my new reality, and things are not too bad.
I exercise when I wan't I eat what I want , I can arrange my life the way I chose.
I miss my kids - but it will be so great to see them on Friday, and I will have finished all other tasks that I can fully concentrate on them.
I won't be able to do much exercise when they are with me - but I bought a rowing machine, so I can do something once they are asleep.

I need to send my wife a so called " pool of assets statement" . I advised her of that last week and asked her to find a lawyer.
Ultimately, I would like to settle out of court.
There are a lot of resources which are legally binding to help us with that. The financial savings would be beneficial for both of us,
My wife has indicated that she would be happy with that idea.

But she made a few statements, which make me question her sanity.
" This divorce is such a cold process"
- I did not say anything.

I will go camping with the kids and some other school parents, the following weekend.
These parents have helped her move, so they are truly 'neutral' friends of ours.
My wife told me that she was upset, that we will go camping and truly asked if she could come.

I had to take a mindful deep breath in .

My cynical answer would have been
" Sure, you bring your tent, I bring mine and the kids sleep one night in each "

Instead I replied " I am afraid that is not possible"

Not that I spend too much time thinking about her sanity, but I thought:
- she must have emotionally detached herself from our relationship that long ago, that she thought it's fine to ask.
Or she is really stupid?

And lastly she asked me : " are you 100% sure you want a divorce?"

I did not answer this question. It was in an email.

I am 100% sure that I am and will be happy without her. I miss the kids, but not her.

I am 99% sure that I want a divorce.
I reserve the 1% for one circumstance:
What if I am incorrect?
So, if she would truly present herself as remorseful, full of insight and eager to rebuild trust- I would consider it.
But I think even 1% is generous. And I haven't told her this.
She would have to come up with it by herself and nothing in her past behavior has indicated that she would have this level of maturity.
I don't think that giving her a 1% chance leaves me in limbo.
I work on myself and concentrate on the tasks at hand.
She continues her journey, and as she is the mother of my children, I hope she finds true happiness.

Stevesn posted 1/14/2019 16:23 PM

Hi ATG. Sounds like there is a light at the end of the tunnel for you, even if there is still pain. There will always be pain even as it diminishes over time.

As far as the 100% sure statement, I would look at it differently.

You can even tell her something like this if you want to briefly Interact, but I would say it this way:

ďI am 100% sure that I want to divorce and legally end the marriage with the woman who could do what she did to me and our family. That marriage was ended when you decided Infidelity was the path you chose to take. Ending it legally is just a formality.

If you do the work to change who you are and how you think about us and how youd ever make me feel safe again we possibly could explore a relationship again, if at that time we are both willing and available.

But between now and then you have much introspection and rebuilding to do in order to get to that point. Iím not optimistic that you have it in you to get there. Prove me wrong. ď

Iíd say thereís less than a 1% chance she could get make that happen before your divorce is final. But could someday a changed woman, who understands how he actions affect those around her and is remorseful for how she caused you pain, show up at your door and want to talk about starting something new. That Iíd say is quite possible.

Enjoy your week.

AFL1000 posted 1/14/2019 19:24 PM

Hi ATG

Very happy to hear you are using the week to focus on you. Glad you invested in the rowing machine. My exercise science colleagues say that if you only purchase one piece of fitness equipment; buy a rowing machine because of all the muscle groups that get a work out while rowing. Not to mention the cardio/endurance benefits.

The wayward mind is an amazing place First STBXMrs ATG is OK to work towards an out of court settlement on finances and then says how cold the divorce process is. I'm sorry what did you expect.

Liked your comment back when she was upset about not being included in the camping trip. Very nice.

And after all she has done to ruin the marriage she has the audacity to ask "Are you 100% sure you want a divorce?" Even if you are 99.99% sure you want to divorce it would have to be the greatest Road to Damascus conversion since Paul on her behalf for you to even contemplate any form of reconciliation. Pre or post divorce.

Should you want to respond to her question Stevesn, the wordsmith, has given you his usual insightful guidance on the matter.

Enjoy the new rowing machine. Just look at it this way every km you clock up on the rower is one more km out of infidelity.

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 7:25 PM, January 14th (Monday)]

paboy posted 1/14/2019 23:07 PM

99 percent to 1 percent is good odds. Allows you some room for movement if things change. You have got this. Keep going forward. The smile is starting to look great 👍🏽

Mrhealed posted 1/15/2019 06:03 AM

100% sure dont want to be plan B,
100% deserve to be someones number 1
100% sure dont want to be in a 3 persons marriage
100% sure your deserve respect
100% dont want to be lied to the face
100% deserve to be loved as a husband and not just a provider.
And so on.

The D is a consequence of her actions. It wasnt your choice!

She knew what she was doing, It was not a mistake, was planned each time.

D is her informed decision!!! Thats why you have this 1% just in case she take her head out her ass and start doing the work...but this is 100% Up yo her

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 6:05 AM, January 15th (Tuesday)]

Atg100 posted 1/17/2019 10:07 AM

My wife and kids returned from WA.
I will see the kids tomorrow .
Proximity played with my mind .
My wife was meant to organise a play date for my daughterís kindergarten .
She forgot to do it , having know about it since before Christmas.
ď can you please send out the email, Iím unwellĒ
Not only did I send out the email for her, I asked if I could help her , given she is sick.
I was quite critical with my self afterwards - but I was only true to myself. Iím a nice guy .

But what it made me realise - she had so much time to do it herself, even two weeks without kids. If she canít send out a single email , but meet her AP , surely that means that she will drag out her part of the divorce indefinitely .

I have to be the driver of the technical side.
I started by letting out insurance broker know.
I told him that I wonít pay her different insurances anymore and asked to get in touch to set up payment options for her.
My lawyer gave me a list of documents he needs to receive .
I will make sure he will have it by Monday.

Buster123 posted 1/17/2019 10:56 AM

Don't beat yourself up, it's a process, you're trying to adapt to your new reality and she is too, she's fishing for your attention, stay focused and firm, if her health problems continue refer her to someone else and call her out on her lack of effort to deal with the kids, document everything for custody of the children just in case.

Atg100 posted 1/17/2019 14:45 PM

Absolutely , a lot of factors played on my mind.
I had the kids for 24 hours a day for two weeks, followed by zero contact.
Then there were 4500km away.
Now all 3 of them are 1.5 km away.
And of course I want to help, when she says she is sick. I am someone full off empathy and compassion, Iím not a doctor for any other reason. Now she has abused this knowingly or unknowingly for the last year or more.
And of course she could count on me last night .
But her behaviour will not change who I am.
However - Iím paying her too much money at the moment and it was only when my lawyer pointed this out, that I saw it.
So I have got good advice on my side, I will use it, so I wonít be taken for a ride.

AFL1000 posted 1/17/2019 18:16 PM

Hi ATG

I agree with Buster that her not arranging the play date for your daughter and that she is now 'unwell' is all attention seeking behaviour to keep you communicating with her.

While I recognise it's difficult to not intercede when it affects your children I suspect that there will be more instances of her needing your help on trivial matters that she could easily deal with herself. This certainly was a ploy used by my close friend's wife during their separation. Just be cautious of not being roped into the White Knight syndrome to ride to the aid of the helpless damsel in distress!

How are those kms racking up on the rowing machine?

Any further updates from your wife's cousin who is in your corner about how your wife's family are dealing with the impending divorce?

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 7:01 PM, January 17th (Thursday)]

Atg100 posted 1/17/2019 21:03 PM

Thanks ,
the Concept 2 is awesome fun and it certainly clears the mind.

It is bizarre to think that she came up with such attention seeking behavior as a planned response, but I guess women are different.
But given that she also says she is still unsure if she would like to reconcile or not, this all just looks like keeping me in reserve for when she finally realizes what she wants.
As I said before, I wish she finds what she is looking for, I wish it wouldn't be at my detriment.
And it just reinforces that I need to chip away at the divorce proceedings. A colleague of mine had an uncooperative ex-spouse, it cost them $60000 in legals fees and 3 years to come to a settlement.
I need to avoid this.

One comment she made to her mum was that my emails are "robotic " and there is apparently no fluff.
I am unsure about how to respond to that.
But I realized that my email communication has been honed by years of writing as a doctor and dealing with lawyers. I am sure my style reflects this.
But was she expecting that I try to put some courtship into each email about child care arrangements?

The cousin, who is a friend of mine talked to her - apparently, she was invited to come to Brisbane and go out and party.
When the cousin replied that she as a young mother herself (and working full time) does not have the energy or desire to go out, my wife only replied that she had children far too early in life.
So, there you have it: my wife has a midlife crisis, she can finally party and me and the kids are unfortunate collateral damage.
But as I supply some benefits - she better keeps me lukewarm with some hopium.
And I think that is about as deep as it gets with her.
Well, she is on her journey, I am on mine

[This message edited by Atg100 at 9:06 PM, January 17th (Thursday)]

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