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Different perspective

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Buster123 posted 11/24/2018 00:27 AM

I agree that you need to focus on yourself now, it's about time you did, now try to get an IC that specializes in infidelity, do your research as some ICs often specialize in "rugsweeping". Focusing on you doesn't mean you can't support your WW during her treatment, but like you said, she's somewhere down the list where you and the children come first. I said on one of my previous recent posts that the children need at least one stable parent, and yes that the trauma of infidelity takes a huge toll on anyone's life and professional help to deal with it is always recommended.

the amount of lying I had to put up with and I actually was prepared to ignore to get back together with my wife has been pretty phenomenal.
Someone with intact mental health would have said at one stop , that enough is enough.
I keep on telling myself that itís better for the kids, but itís actually not. I would be fine with the kids as it is. I just need to get some of the logistics right and once we have a reliable routine, they will adapt .

I'm glad you're finally realizing you can't just stay in a M at all costs, that staying just for the kids is wrong, I do sense a change of attitude in you and I like it, some of the things you've endured and put up with your WW are next to impossible to ignore. I hope the psychiatrist can help her but one more time, keep the eye on the ball to get out of infidelity.

AFL1000 suggested a leave of absence for your WW,
so for now, instead of quitting can she at least do that for a few months while she is seeing by the psychiatrist ? what would be her excuse for not agreeing with this ? not being able to get in touch with OM ? you know I've been stressing the importance of NC, why don't you ask her and press her about at least taking a leave of absence, I mean her M is at stake here, I don't think it's too much to ask.

steadychevy posted 11/24/2018 06:02 AM

In a recent post, Atg, you indicated your WW has said she doesn't know what she wants. I've written before that if she's not "all in" then she's not "in" at all. You're just in limbo as she decides which life she wants. What about the life and wife you want?

Your last post was very positive to me. It's decision time for her. It's up to her to prove to you that the only rational thing for you to do is to R. It's not up to you to prove that to her (pick me dance).

I did a lot of pick me dance and giving my WW direction on what she needed to do for me. She didn't take the initiative. I asked her three times over a couple of weeks if she loved me. Three times she said "no". It should have only taken one time but I asked 3 times. Hoping for a different answer I guess.

I understand you think she has some mental health issues. You feel an obligation (responsibility) to be there for her and to give her space and time to get better. The "better or worse, sickness and health" kicking in. I'm sorry but IMO this just contributes to more limbo. I had lots of "excuses" to give more time. It was 4 years after DDay when my WW finally moved out. I was dying a little inside everyday. Had it seemed to me that she was "all in", getting it, consistent it might have been different.

You've said that your outward appearance would indicate that all is well with you. I was the same. People who knew me didn't know there was such turmoil in my life except for one family gathering a couple of weeks after DDay1 and no sleep or eating. My outward appearance was an illusion. Inside I was churning and, as I said, dying a little inside a little more every day.

You're a doctor. You know that is extremely unhealthy for you. You feel responsibility for your WW's health but your own is jeopardized. I'm so glad you're looking for your own IC that you can consult on your schedule and not be trying to work it around your WW's IC and MC. IMO, you need to look after you - for you and your children.

As has been mentioned, it seems like you've turned a corner. I applaud. Just realize that there are steps forward and slipping back. Not linear. If you stumble pick yourself up and stay on course.

Your WW has had enough time to comer to terms with the situation. I think the chance (or planned) meetings and perhaps the thrill of seeing him at work keeps her in limbo and "undecided". Just the potential to see him at work creates heightened emotions. I say again that if she's not "all in" she's not in at all.

Stay strong. Look after you. If reconciliation is possible I say it should be on your terms.

The1stWife posted 11/24/2018 06:40 AM

She is telling you exactly how she feels. But it could change.

My H told me he wanted a Divorce, didnít want to be married and he was kicking me to the curb to be with the OW.

We have reconciled and itís been 5 years and we are happy.

Funny how he was so convinced that the OW (whom he knew 6 months) was the one. At the end of the A and knowing her for 12 months he dumped her and never looked back. The Affair Fog lifted.

When it comes to emotions it just doesnít make sense. I donít want to give you false hope but others have been in your situation and the marriage survived the Affair.

Atg100 posted 11/24/2018 23:06 PM

Thank you for sharing your personal experience.
It seems hard at the moment to see such a possible outcome to be honest.
Iím just back from the beach with the kids. My wife did a trail run this morning. She got up very early and did quite well in this run, which is part of her triathlon preparation.

I found article describing how Pristiq , the antidepressant she is currently taking , can influence dopamine levels and make people lose all feelings of love for their partner .
( this sort of makes sense, but how does the affair fit in ? A higher dopamine response? ).
I asked her if she could discuss this with the psychiatrist , she said yes and thanks for the article .
My MIl will come over from Perth for a long weekend next week.
My wife asked me not to talk to her about our current situation.
I was frank and asked if we are just playing nice until her mum is gone ? She denied that.

My MIl was very critical of my wife and called her all kind of things. But the MIL also had the habit to not let other family and friends know if there is trouble and likes to present this perfect picture to the outside world.
I think both behave odd ; itís not what I would do, but thatís her problem.
I keep on concentrating on my kids, wait until my wife has seen the psychiatrist and then make a decision with my best interest at heart.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 11:08 PM, November 24th (Saturday)]

AFL1000 posted 11/25/2018 01:21 AM


Glad you had time with the kids at the beach but do me a favour and send some hot weather down south; our temperatures have been up to 10 degrees C below average for this time of the year! And we're almost into Summer.

Interesting note about your wife's AD medication. It's such a delicate balance in getting the right drug and dose prescribed with all the known side effects and contraindications; and each person responds differently to the meds or they can complicate things by not complying with the instructions for taking the drug such as combining AD drugs with unsafe levels of alcohol. I have first hand knowledge of this one with a family member.

I see your MIL is coming next week. Have you and/or your wife discussed with your MIL ground rules for what can and cannot be discussed about your current marital situation and the affair.

Is this the week for your wife's psych visit and your combined MC with the counsellor? Are you going to proceed with the suggestion to have your own IC?

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 11:56 AM, November 25th (Sunday)]

Atg100 posted 11/25/2018 02:03 AM

My wife asked me not to talk to the MIL at all about our current problems.
So I wonít , I donít think that this is the right thing to do, but itís her mother .
Hopefully my wife goes and sees the psychiatrist ; there is no joined MC session planned at the moment . It would be pointless .
I just take it hour by hour now.
I practice mindfulness and yoga breathing to not obsess with the situation .
But itís not easy.
At best , my wife is emotionally confused, withdrawn and on the wrong antidepressant .
At worst she has made up her mind and plays some charade until her mother is gone.
I will be myself, focus on my and the childrenís well-being.
The mixed messages she sends, are still insane .

[This message edited by Atg100 at 2:47 AM, November 25th (Sunday)]

Buster123 posted 11/25/2018 09:59 AM

So basically your WW has asked you to lie (at least by omission) to your MIL if she asks how things are at the moment right ?, still very wayward thinking on her part (it's still about her and how she's perceived by her own mother), I can imagine the first thing your MIL will ask you when she sets foot in your home is: "Hi Atg100 how are you ? how's everything going ?", and what your WW wants you to answer is: "Fine, I'm fine, We're fine and everything's fine here" then go on and keep a fake smile and happy face all weekend long, why would you put up with this charade and still cover for her ? I mean instead of pretending everything is fine in front of your MIL, when asked you could say something like: "MIL, your daughter and I are still going through difficult times as a couple right now but want to keep it private at least for now, I hope you understand, how was your trip ?"; don't tell me you're afraid about your WW's reaction to this, focus on you, I think deep down you don't want to pretend everything's fine and keep the charade all weekend with your MIL (and rightly so) then why do it?, If it was me, I would be honest and keep details to a minimum, but it's your call.

Notthevictem posted 11/25/2018 10:50 AM

Where is your line in the sand?

Atg100 posted 11/25/2018 12:44 PM

My MIL is not stupid. She has learned and is shocked that her daughter is a liar.
I would certainly not just say that everything is fine - and the line suggested above is very good.
My MIL will certainly press my daughter for information. And I will give them time on their own for sure .
But thatís not my problem, itís my wifeís .
My line in the sand - the psychiatristís opinion .
If the doc wants to change treatment and my wife goes along with it , then I will allow her to stay in my house and we can work on our marriage .
I couldnt see any other alternative which would allow this limbo to continue .

[This message edited by Atg100 at 12:45 PM, November 25th (Sunday)]

Atg100 posted 11/25/2018 19:22 PM

My wife just texted.
The appointment with the psychiatrist wonít be before the 11th of December.
Positive - she actually made the appointment .
Negative - the long waiting time .
I have to think about this . If I ask her to leave now, she wonít go to the appointment and I will never find out.
2 more weeks of this situation , thatís a tough one.
I will have to contemplate about it .

Atg100 posted 11/26/2018 04:46 AM

I went for some exercise right after work ( in fact I left work early, as soon as my clinic had finished)
I swam 2km.
I came to the conclusion , that I want to be able to tell my children when they are grown up that I tried absolutely everything.
Not for the price of self destruction but I will find the calmness I need to await the next two weeks.
I am the emotionally mature and sane person here.
I have booked a psychologist and talked things over with a very good friend .
He reminded me - I canít change my wife.
But I can chose my actions and I can chose how her actions and words affect me.

Stevesn posted 11/26/2018 05:24 AM

Good job booking the psychologist. When is your first session? Use the next 2 weeks to get a few sessions under your belt with him/her.

Question, do you trust your wife to even bring up the Pristiq question with the psychiatrist? Or do you think you should get the question to him or her separately? Somehow let the psychiatrist know that the state of your marriage is hanging by a thread perhaps due to the effects of this med.

Impressive swim btw. Exercising definitely can be therapeutic.

Buster123 posted 11/26/2018 12:59 PM

Very good swim !!!, keep that up when you can, you have a very good and honest friend, now back to your situation, I honestly think that waiting 2 more weeks to see what the psychiatrist has to say is not that much, I know you're hurting because of this so I'm not trying to minimize your pain at all, but a couple of more weeks seems reasonable, OTH, I'm happy you've decided to talk to a psychology to overcome this trauma, you really need to keep the focus on you.

AFL1000 posted 11/26/2018 18:19 PM


Well in amongst all the uncertainty in your life at least two positives: 1) Mrs ATG arranged her psychiatrist consult (and even though it's 2 weeks away that's not bad considering the time it can take to get a medical specialist appointment) and 2) you have taken a really positive personal step in arranging to meet with a psychologist to deal with the trauma of your wife's affair and all the emotional upheaval that goes with it.

In a previous post you mentioned

the amount of lying I had to put up with and I actually was prepared to ignore to get back together with my wife has been pretty phenomenal

Was this just referring to lying about the affair or has her lying permeated other aspects of your lives? Have you raised the question with your wife about her taking personal leave from work for the reasons discussed in previous posts?

Oh and also congrats on the 2km swim, at 67 I do my laps of the pool but you would leave me way behind.

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 7:28 PM, November 26th (Monday)]

Atg100 posted 11/27/2018 00:09 AM

Well, I didnít tell you how long the 2km took me ...
Iím going to the gym a lot, but there is something about swimming which allows me to think a little but more relaxed, you donít get to the same calmness in the gym.

My wife would not take time of work at the moment.
The home situation is quite tricky, she has reverted again to nearly no touch or contact . She is not quite the ice queen but reasonably close.
I forwarded an email to her - I asked a friend who is a psychiatrist for an opinion about the emotional blunting and the pristiq.
He chose his words very well but said that this is his number one reason for a drug free trial period or change in medication.
I forwarded this email to her , she said she will consider it.

I am hurting, that much is true.
My own counselling session is not until mid December either, but I have good friends who hear me out. I donít think Iím missing out on much.
Just even my journal here is therapeutic .
I will manage ok for the next two weeks, keeping the family together would be a great achievement.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 12:24 AM, November 27th (Tuesday)]

Atg100 posted 11/27/2018 00:45 AM

With regards to the lying.
Iím referring to the affair and its aftermath.

I donít want to try to interpret what she does anymore too much. But her head must be in a mess as well.

But itís me who has to get away from the lying and not be affected anymore. It says in the advice about dealing with the fog ď believe nothing what is said to you and less than 50% than what you seeĒ
I still think that is true for now.
Itís such a complex puzzle ; I need to hand on to the certainties which you have pointed out.

Buster123 posted 11/27/2018 03:43 AM

My wife would not take time of work at the moment.

Why not ? what was her excuse for not taking time off now ? I mean if there was ever a time to ask for a leave of absence due to a family emergency (her M is hanging in the balance) this would be it, have you really press her on this ? is her M to you not that important that she can't even take time off work to try to save it ? or could it be because she just doesn't want to stay away from OM ?

Atg100 posted 11/27/2018 04:35 AM

Well, the following answer only makes sense if she truly has not contact with the OM.
Work gives her some confidence and reassurance ; she only started back at work last year, after staying at home with kids for 6 years. She is in a special neurosurgical theatre and the operations she had been doing in the last few weeks were not of the kind where the OM would have been there.
She only works 2 days a week sometimes 3.
She spends the other weekdays with our 4 year old, so I can understand that she needs work to feel like an adult.
Shame that this is all now tarnished by the affair.
But right now, we are so far apart, I donít even feel I could ask her such a question.
I have had zero indication from her that she wants to do anything else other than seeing the psychiatrist .

I canít make her do anything at the moment, I can only control my own actions.
If the psychiatrist suggests a change of treatment and if she goes ahead with that, then we can start working on our marriage.
Right now we are friendly and polite at home; my gut feeling tells me that this is only so that we present a nice picture to her mum, so that she can avoid tough discussions with her.
Personally , I think she is all over the place .
I doubt she fully knows what she wants, but the last thing she would accept right now, is any kind of pressure .
I stand back, watch things objectively and see that many little things donít make sense.
She needs to sort herself out.

Fact is - she made the psychiatrist appointment and told her counsellor about it.
A lot of other things I see , I overinterpret.
I shouldnít, but I do.
Thatís what I need to stop.

Stevesn posted 11/27/2018 05:47 AM

ATG. We feel for you. No one should have to go thru what you are going thru.

Tell me, do you ever have moments, even alone, where the pain of what sheís doing to you just gets to you. Do you mourn what has been lost? If I were you I wouldnít try to hide those moments from her. Let her know and feel the pain you are experiencing. Show it to her. Perhaps because you donít, she thinks you donít care.

Iím hopeful that the psychiatrist will change her meds. When did she start them? However I donít trust her to even ask the question correctly. Iím fearful sheíll word it in such a way that heíll decide itís not an issue.

But if he does change them, how long before the effect of them wears off? Is it days? Or is it weeks. And even then, how long before we know if it had any effect?

Itís ok to not be so stoic about the pain this has all caused you. I know you need to be there for the kids, but keeping inside the weight of what she is still doing can harm you in the long run. Showing her that you are human, that her actions or lack thereof are hurtful, is not a bad thing.

Just my thoughts this morning.

Atg100 posted 11/27/2018 13:02 PM

Yes, these moments exist. I have to actively work against it and really focus on what I am doing at the time.
I donít allow myself at work to think too much about it.
If a sad thought enters my mind, I will look on the stopwatch and give myself a minute to think about it - and then return to the task.

Nobody should go through this ; I have done nothing wrong . All I am doing now is trying to do my part to keep this marriage together.
That was never going to be easy however .
I wasnít aware of the magnitude of the task when I made this decision . But who knows all this from the start?
I still think that there may be some reward at the end. I will see.

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