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Different perspective

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Atg100 posted 9/7/2018 17:30 PM

Hi,
I am glad I found this form.
I have been reading many other posts which made me think a lot.
My situation is slightly different – although we possibly all think that.

My background first:
My first marriage broke down to my previous behaviour – I had affairs, saw escorts and watched porn in an addictive manner. There was no other way than getting divorced; I would not have changed and not understood where my faults were.
I have worked very hard on myself since. We had no children, so I could move to the other side of the country. I took part in a value-based course on how to live your life. I had a personal life coach with experience in sex and porn addiction for over a year. I constantly try to improve myself by reading self-improvement literature and email weekly to daily with my sobriety partner.
I started a new relationship, fast forward nearly 14 years, we have two children and seemed happy.
I point our here that I have not looked at porn during that whole time and have remained faithful and committed. But I also haven’t fully disclosed my past, to my wife. I felt, that I earned a clean slate. She knew that I had an affair which ended my first marriage, but not about the other details. I have a deal with my sobriety partner – If any of my former problems ever raise their head again, I would tell my wife.

A few weeks ago, I found out that my wife had an affair for over 8 month: It was an emotional affair, but it was pretty obvious from the very few emails, I read that it would have turned physical very soon: I was away on a business trip and my wife and the other guy were planning to go to a ball from their work place together; my wife had booked an all-night babysitter.
I confronted her about the messages and moved into a hotel and then air bnb for a few days.
I was completely sleep deprived and didn’t want to say or do anything which I later regretted. For a few days, I only took care of myself. Went to yoga, had a massage, talked to friends.
I had enough time to think about my goals: and they were clear: I want us to come out stronger because of this affair.
I also learned that I would be happy on my own, if need be.
My wife contacted me and asked to come back. She told me that she had broken all contact with the affair partner and wanted me back.
We went through this crazy period , where things weren’t normal, extreme mood swings on her side. I had told myself to take it day by day and that the only person I could influence would be myself. I chose to be happy, confident and calm. I did not overinterpret her mode swings, text message or anything else, but looked at the things I could improve to reconnect:
I had worked too much – my business was involved in some litigation over the last year. There was not only the financial and legal side of things, but the guys on the other side had also engaged in cruel character assassination and spread rumours about me which were simply untrue. Now at the end of it, I have won the subsequent legal battle – at the cost of lawyer’s fees and a very depressed mode, as well as many sleepless nights. I shielded my family from all that- and became introvert and spent too much time on the laptop or in meetings.
Clearly, that contributed to the disconnect, my wife must have felt. And it that stage she met someone else – I can see how there is a lot of temptation, if there is a man who doesn’t seem to have all this baggage but just promises flirtation and fun and maybe sex.
I am not making excuses for her; she broke the boundaries of our relationship and she clearly was very selfish. But I am looking for the causes from my end.
We went to counselling and here she annoyed me.
The counsellor is very good. She didn’t let my wife of the hook; but my wife tried to run the whole thing against me “I was just looking for someone to talk to as you were not around “
It was only when I reminded her of the content of the messages that I have seen, that she agreed that the “just a friend excuse” doesn’t stick.
I have changed the things, I could change. The laptop doesn’t come out of its bag at home, I do many things to reconnect – on an emotional, physical and practical way. My approach is sustainable and surely still can improve, but its work in progress and I am putting the effort in.
I forgave my wife – I have made many mistakes in the past, I know how easy it is to make errors.
I love my imperfect wife – because I am imperfect too and that knowledge gives me a lot of comfort.
Here now the reason for my post – do you think I made it too easy for my wife?
My thoughts are – I am open and in control of myself. I know that I can only change myself. But I also know that because of my past, I am much more likely to look for problems on my side.
I can see, that she will go to counselling a few more times and then the whole thing will be swept under the carpet. Other literature I read, suggests, that this is all I can expect.
What do you guys think: Would you be happy with this? Do you think, I made it too easy for her and do you think I was too ready to look for causes on my side?


[This message edited by Atg100 at 5:34 PM, September 7th (Friday)]

Marz posted 9/7/2018 17:37 PM

my wife tried to run the whole thing against me “I was just looking for someone to talk to as you were not around “
It was only when I reminded her of the content of the messages that I have seen, that she agreed that the “just a friend excuse” doesn’t stick.

This may change but she isn't R material at this time.

If they work together the affair may go underground. If other man is married you'd be very wise to inform his wife.

Buster123 posted 9/7/2018 18:40 PM

Yes, basically you're rug sweeping and agreed to R way too soon, your WW is not even remorseful yet, she's just sorry she got caught and is still blameshifting.

Your WW is now a proven cheater and liar, how do you know it didn't turn physical ? an 8 month workplace A is hard to conceive without it being a PA, workplace As normally turn physical within a few months, you need to DEMAND a written timeline of the A, contact OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse) if any, you can compare notes with her, you need FULL access to her phone and all electronic devices and passwords, she probably deleted their messages by now so get a recovery app like Dr Fone, also if there's contact the A is not over or will resume at some point, also she needs to agree to NC FOREVER with OM, if they work together there's contact so one of them has to quit, if OM refuses then it has to be your WW, another consequence of ther A, also DEMAND she gets tested for STDs, cheaters lie, you can bet there's stil a lot she's not telling you, remember she did not confess, she got caught, adults involved in As develop feelings over 8 months and get physical (kissing, groping, hugging and sex), your wife planned to spend the night with OM , don't think for a moment that's the only chance they had, workplace As are notorious for "lunch sex", quickies, BJs and HJs in the car during their lunch breaks or "overtime" hours. After her written timeline, DEMAND she takes a POLYGRAPH, you may even get the "parking lot confession" before she takes it, of course you make her do it anyway. Keep posting.

RubixCubed posted 9/7/2018 18:59 PM

Yes, you made it too easy. She has experienced NO consequences, so has no reason to truly change. Odds are good you will run into this again down the road a ways.

Atg100 posted 9/7/2018 19:16 PM

Thank you very much for your responses.
I appreciate your advice.
She told the affair partner that there can’t be no contact and she blocked him on Facebook , which was their main way of communicating.
- I’m just adding this, as it wasn’t mentioned in my original post.
I asked to see all their Facebook messages to which she said” if you see them, you divorce me straight away”
This was on D day.
I felt that there would be only pain for me in those messages, so I didn’t want to see them.
Facebook stores even deleted messages in the archive , so I could ask her to download all of it.
I’m unsure if there is anything in there which would change the facts of the matter- she cheated.
It doesn’t matter to me if it was sexual or not, I think it was as bad as it can be , given the long duration, it was not just a flirt and not just a friend.
I think I want to protect myself from further trauma, by not having to read all their messages.

Contacting the affair partners wife - I found out easily that he is married . He told my wife that they are divorced.
Due to an acquitance , I know for sure he is married .

Now :
If It would be the other way round, i would like to find out for sure.
However , I hesitated so far, as I think my true reason for contacting her , would be revenge on the affair partner.
And I don’t want to waste my time thinking about this guy.
I think Karma will get him anyway. I am working on becoming a better person, whilst he is in a loveless marriage , full of lies.

Has anyone contacted the ap wife and regretted this?

SI Staff posted 9/7/2018 19:22 PM

   Moving to General

Ripped62 posted 9/7/2018 19:32 PM

We (the vast majority of members that respond and posts I have read) feel the other betrayed spouse should be informed in nearly all situations.

From a personal standpoint I feel it is the right thing to do. I would never want to live in infidelity and not know it. It is wrong in my opinion to allow someone to have their personal narrative and agency taken from them.

It is also beneficial to have both sets of eyes on the affair partners to ensure contact between them no longer occurs.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 7:35 PM, September 7th (Friday)]

Atg100 posted 9/7/2018 19:50 PM

Thanks again for your advice.

And yes - I would appreciate to be contacted if the situation would be the other way around.
I am not one for quick desicions so I will contemplate - but I have to admit that it had been on my mind.

This is one of those questions :
Is there a recommended way of doing this ?

ShutterHappy posted 9/7/2018 20:55 PM

Not only it’s the right thing to do, the OBS might help getting the truth, help with the NC. If your WW asks you why you contacted the OBS, you’ll know that she still talks to the OM.

You should also get tested for STD.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 8:55 PM, September 7th (Friday)]

Atg100 posted 9/7/2018 22:10 PM

I have to admit what that this advice completely questions my way to recovery so far.
I chose to trust her when she said, there was no sex.

I came to this forum for advice and it has hit me quite hard.
You guys would have seen it all, and if I say, that I trust her , I must come across as incredibly naive .

Again, thank you for the very open advice

Marz posted 9/7/2018 22:20 PM

Cheating is a lie man. They all do it. Most in your position want to believe very badly and paint themselves into the denial corner.

At this time you should use common sense. You can't trust her.

She didn't confess you caught her.

Consequences are a good thing. Inform the other mans wife without warning. He may take your silence as weakness and thus enable him to pursue again if it has indeed ended. At this time you really don't know much.

Better wake up you are here for a reason

sisoon posted 9/8/2018 09:39 AM

Gently, up to now, you've been complicit in the rug-sweeping. Stop.

The way to the better M is for both of you to face your W's A. You say you presented a calm exterior. Where's you anger, your grief, your fear, your shame? You've got to acknowledge your feelings, bro, and process them. If you suppress them, they'll come out in nasty ways.

The main consequence I imposed on my W was that she deal with her shit in IC and be a good partner. That means you need to be a good partner, too - in most sitches, I would think that includes sharing your business troubles with your W. (Mind you, my W's biggest complaint is that I don't share enough, and our NC agrees.)

Bro, You may have been a POS in the past, but you seem to have changed. At some point, you need to forgive yourself for past transgressions and focus on doing the next right thing now .

Part of that is creating/living the relationship you want with your W. It's OK to want things. It's OK to ask your W to provide them, and it's OK to split of you can't reach an agreement on what your M will be.

You need to start, I think, with 2 things:

1) IC for your W with a goal of changing from cheater to good partner, and

2)processing the anger, grief, fear, and shame of being betrayed out of your body.

An BTW, nothing you did or didn't do caused your W to cheat. She did that for her own reasons.

redfury posted 9/8/2018 10:20 AM

What stood out to me most about your post is how you seem to have accepted "I wasn't there for her and so she looked elsewhere" as an answer. Because what I read was "I was up to my eyeballs in litigation, needed a supportive spouse more than ever, and that's when she chose to betray me." It feels like rug-sweeping, and the kind of thing that's going to come up again later. You talk about all the work you've done to improve yourself. What has she done to address the fact that she puts her own need for attention above the very real concerns in her life?

Atg100 posted 9/8/2018 17:29 PM

Thanks Redfury.
Your point is well made- and it’s actually what I have also been thinking about. I have a business partner , he is the other director of our company. We are good mates. His wife knows every minute detail about the case and was there with him during the process. I internalised the whole thing - but my wife didn’t ask questions or offered much help.
I know - and that actually makes it much harder for me.
It is those type of questions which are much more important to me. Am I married to the right person?
Obviously we have had a good past - over 10 years , moved to two different cities, two kids. Things must have been right at some point. It is that what I am striving to get back, but I am wondering if I’m kidding myself.

With regards to contacting the affair partner’s wife . There is nothing in it for me, I won’t do it.
Their relationship must be awful, it will come out sooner or later.
I have made a few decisions :
I decided to love my imperfect wife who has been lying to me.
I forgave her. This is important for me - it’s unconditional forgiveness. But it frees me and I can concentrate doing my part for a better future together.
I don’t need to know any further details about the affair . It has hurt me as much as it can. Digging further will just give me more pain.
My wife now has two choices :
Work on our relationship, show remorse and be 100% transparent .
Or we getting a divorce. There is no middle ground .
And yes of course she tries to minimise the whole affair and I most likely maximise the affair. That’s human. She made mistakes, I still love her.
But it’s not the past, it’s what she does now which determines if we stay together .
I have learned in the last few weeks , that I would have a happy life on my own. That also gives me a lot of comfort.
I won’t need to beg that she stays with me . I will certainly do my bit, but I have to make it very clear what I expect from her .
If she then chooses to continue to lie and cheat, I know what to do .

skerzoid posted 9/8/2018 20:04 PM

Atg100:

You seem to be a very intelligent and reasonable person. Your posts are well thought out & you are an articulate writer.

However, many times articulate, intelligent, reasonable people come to this forum and seemingly reject the guidance freely given by the many veterans of infidelity on this site.

I am sure you have learned to trust your own instincts and above average intelligence. However, you reject these experienced voices at your own peril.

Many times people like yourself seem stunned by the doubt echoed by the many as to their spouse's trustworthiness and or reliability. Many times we see the poster return saying "You were all right".

I always lean towards reconciliation with a truly remorseful wife. I see no evidence of remorse. Have you? Has she asked for forgiveness, for "one more chance"? Has she wept? Has she given you a timeline or letter of apology? You have been fairly unclear on this.

Your fear of reading the facebook posts is very telling. You don't know how far down the rabbit hole this goes do you Neo? Before forgiving and offering someone reconciliation, I would want to know what I am forgiving.

In cases like yours, I always believe in informing the OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse). I encourage this NOT out of revenge, but as a way to kill the infidelity.

Your inaction in this may be the downfall of your marriage. You seem to want to save your marriage by going your own way out of disdain for the harsh opinions of others. You are her KISA (Knight In Shining Armor). You may criticize her but will brook no criticism by the unwashed masses.

The other reason I encourage telling the OBS is out of concern for another human being. By not informing them, you are encouraging and sanctioning the affair IMHO.

You will go your own way, I am sure. I wish you the best of luck with your marriage. I hope she becomes the loving spouse you seem to be. We all need a little luck.

[This message edited by skerzoid at 8:05 PM, September 8th (Saturday)]

Atg100 posted 9/8/2018 20:24 PM

Thank you very much for your post.

She has apologised for the pain she has caused.
But this via text Message which is not the right way.
She may have said sorry in one of the subsequent discussions, but it wasn’t memorable.

She is coming to MC with me, but as I wrote before , it hasn’t been as honest as I would have liked it.

I very much appreciate what you wrote and it hit a few points right on the head.

I am not dismissing advice and can’t thank you enough that you took time for me - a stranger on the internet - and wrote your reply.
I will have to think a bit more

Dyokemm posted 9/9/2018 01:38 AM

You MUST make sure the A is killed off before you can even have a chance to R in your M.

And the best way to do that is to give OM something else to worry about than reaching out to your WW to try and continue the A.....

Having to deal with his irate BW after you inform her of the A with your WW will definitely give this moron something else to deal with other than pursuing the A.

And you say you know enough right now.....do not need to know if the A was sexual as well....

I understand the sentiment.....

But wouldn’t you want to know if your WW still felt it was OK to lie to your face?

This is the primary reason I believe that a BS needs to push for the whole truth if they want R (if they just want to D because ANY cheating is a dealbreaker, then it wouldn’t matter).....

Because as long as a WS still feels entitled to lie to and gaslight their BS, they simply CANNOT be a safe partner to rebuild a M with IMO.

Best of luck.

Atg100 posted 9/9/2018 02:13 AM

Thank you .
Skerzoid’ s Reasoning made an impression and I told his wife.
She was shocked but grateful that I made contact.
I had quite a few details and facts ready , as I knew she would ask questions.
I will ask my wife for full disclosure .
I will do that at marriage counselling however; our counsellor has suggested this herself. She is very good.

anoldlion posted 9/9/2018 03:16 AM

I regret you find yourself in this situation. But I have to compliment you. I'm retired military and I think you would have made a good OIC. For once I read a post by someone who is in control of his emotions, who has a clear understanding of what occurred, who is decisive, who listens to advice but in the end, weighs his options and makes his own decisions. With advice you actually do "take what you need and leave the rest". If the situation turns out good or bad it was still your decision and your responsibility. I do wish you well.

Atg100 posted 9/9/2018 03:52 AM

Thank you.
I have worked hard on myself to live a value based life.
I have read the 7 habits of highly effective people many times and am guided by its principles.
But my past also allows me to see that people make stupid mistakes - and that’s just human.
The advice I received so far from the forum has been invaluable.

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