X

Cookies on SurvivingInfidelity.com®

SurvivingInfidelity.com® uses cookies to enhance your visit to our website. This is a requirement for participants to login, post and use other features. Visitors may opt out, but the website will be less functional for you.

more information about cookies...

Return to Forum List

Return to I Can Relate

SurvivingInfidelity.com® > I Can Relate

You are not logged in. Login here or register.

Betrayed Menz Thread-Part 33

Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

reallyscrewedup7 posted 11/2/2018 09:16 AM

Wow - WAL and Tim (especially WAL as I know his story - or many parts of it)

I am not sure how you all deal with this. I respect the hell out of you all, but I can honestly say I would not have the patience to deal with it. WAL, after 12 years she is back to checking on her AP? I mean, really. She had to take positive action to unblock him, so damn. And then yelling at you to essentially fuck off and she can do what she wants and she is not going through "it" again when "it" was/is 100% her fault.

Man, that is eff'n seriously cold. Granted, I do NOT deal with BP2 patients, but that seems extra special shitty given your history.

Strength to you both.

WornDown posted 11/2/2018 10:01 AM

On the hopeful side it is clear to me she is not minimizing this and WANTS to be better. To this point she is putting the work in.

I do think I may also be a bitter smarter now on what to watch for. Things that just seemed odd to me before with acting over emotional will be seen through a different lens now by me I hope.


That's good stuff.

One of my concerns with the whole monitor and adjust meds is that does it take more manic behavior at some point to realize she needs different meds. I canít go through that again or at least sure donít want to.

But, yeah - that sucks, and you know it will happen. The goal is to ID it before it does (serious) damage.

Thanks again for responding. I had shyed away from SI for quite awhile because her story was already so terrible and I got some really bitter and terrible responses pointing out just things I already struggled with but I do feel more support here.

No problem. Keep posting. In my earlier days I found more support in the Menz Clubhouse mostly just because I was talking to guys who understood what I went/was going through.

No disrespect to the ladies, but sometimes, their point of view as BWs just doesn't help a BH. Especially around custody/CS issues.

steadychevy posted 11/4/2018 06:11 AM

behindbars, my WW didn't leave me for her AP. She wasn't going to leave me and she sure wasn't going to live with him. But, if you think about it, she did leave me for him. He was more important than her marriage, her children and me. She didn't physically leave except when they were together physically but she sure wasn't with me. She fucked him and lived with me for the "honourable, respectable life" until she stopped fucking him. Her life was supposed to just continue on without disruption. So, in a sense, she left me for her AP and then came back. Except I found out years later.

It's slower on SI on the weekends. I hope others come and chime in for you. So sorry about why you are here. It's a long haul, marathon not sprint, to heal whether with your WS or not.

Take care of yourself. I hope you're getting psychological help. Counselling has helped me immeasurably. I'm on my 3rd counsellor and have been since the beginning of the year. Not all counsellors are created equal. This one was a winner for me. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

sisoon posted 11/4/2018 14:20 PM

behindbars, Welcome.

My W left me in the way steady mentions, so I have no personal experience with moving out.

If you read enough here, though, I think you'll see that some (many?) WSes do try to return to their BSes once they wake up to reality. After all, they always affair down. The ap, no matter what else she may be, is a cheater.

DomesticTourist posted 11/4/2018 14:42 PM

My wife and I met thirty-two years ago. We were teenagers, she was a rising senior in high school and I had just graduated. Her father died when she was twelve and I met her when she was seventeen and have been with her since. It really was love at first sight. We dated long distance for several years with our relationship becoming more serious over time. We married in 1992, six years after we met.
We had our first child in 1996 and our second in 1999. My career was going well and we lived comfortably. I changed things up with my job so I could spend more time with my family, and we lived the prototypical suburban life: two kids, two jobs, two dogs, a mortgage, and so on.
About fifteen years into the marriage, we were living parallel lives. We attended to the kids' needs, but we spent more time parenting than being good spouses. We were living in the same house, but our lives were disconnected. Over time, our intimacy faded to the point we were not particularly close emotionally and our sex life suffered.
In 2010, eighteen years into our marriage, I had a sudden health emergency that left me dead for five minutes. It was traumatic emotionally for everyone. Physically I recovered very quickly, and fully, but the brush with my mortality exposed all the weaknesses in our marriage. I wanted to be happy, right now, and anyone who wasn't with me on that was not on "my team." My wife struggled to fit in, because she wanted to nurture me and protect me and I wanted to live on a high wire.
Quite by accident, I reconnected platonically with a woman for whom I had long had a "married crush." She confided in me her plan to divorce and I shared with her my marital struggles. We talked too much, about too many things, for about a month before we realized it was not a good idea. We broke contact, but not before my wife suspected the situation and found some emails that were too personal for people who were merely platonic. I never had physical contact with my friend, not of any kind, but my wife absolutely believed that this relationship had become a full blown affair. It wasn't, but she believed it was.
By this time, my wife had sought comfort with my best friend. He lived out of town, but they texted often. The three of us had been close since college, so twenty years of friendship between us. He was in our wedding. He was my children's godfather, and "uncle." I trusted him with my wife without reservation. Unfortunately, my trust in him was misplaced.
My wife's relationship with him escalated to an emotional (electronic) affair shortly after my medical issue and moved quickly. Under cover of a long planned trip, my wife began a physical affair with him in October 2010. Shortly thereafter, I discovered inappropriate emails that betrayed at least an emotional affair, and my wife's statement that she wanted to divorce me and that she "loved him with all her heart." I confronted them both about it, they conceded the inappropriate emotional connection but adamantly denied a physical affair.
I resolved that a physical affair was likely but that even if it had happened, I would forgive them both. After all, I had likewise become emotionally entangled with another woman and I wanted to move forward with my wife to be happy together. I believed that we mutually forgave one another for our contemporaneous wrongs to one another, and committed to our marriage.
I did. She didn't. She carried on her long distance affair, emotionally and physically, for the next year until my friend moved to our neighborhood with a job change. They continued their affair for another year after that, into 2013. I was unaware of it. I was well aware my wife and I were on the verge of divorce, but I thought we were just having ongoing disconnection between us. Foolishly, it never occurred to me to think perhaps my wife was fucking my friend and that might be part of the problem.
It was a limerent affair, in which they operated in an alternate fantasy land where I was the bad guy and they were destined to be together, soulmates denied connection until midlife. Until, they got to spend a lot of time together and my wife realized he had so many issues that made him insufferable that she came out of the fog. He demanded they continue the affair, but she broke it off. He moved away and severed all ties with our family. Good riddance, by then, I thought, because he had become a real jerk to everyone.
My marriage improved markedly over the next five years, all the while I was unaware of my wife's long term affair. She became the wife every man would want. She took interest in my hobbies, she fed me well, she turned up the sex to fulfill every want I could imagine. We returned to truly enjoying one another in every sense of the word.
And then I had a dream. In the dream, my friend and my wife had resumed the affair I thought they had had many years ago. I woke up and told my wife, "in my dream, you were fucking X again." Now keep in mind, I had only confronted her about it once, in 2010, and she had denied it. This dream is in 2018. For eight years, after her denial, I never accused her again. When I said, "in my dream, you were fucking X again," the look on her face, and her failure to quickly deny ever fucking him, told me everything I needed to know. She had fucked him. We both knew we were going to have to have a discussion that included her confession.
It lingered for a month or so before the time was right for that conversation. Ironically, that conversation occurred at our anniversary dinner to celebrate 26 years of marriage. She confessed that night to the affair, and gave up most of the details.
However, partly because of the passage of time and partly because she began to trickle truth me, it was not until six months later, and my efforts to reconstruct the timeline independently with occasional questions to her, that she finally put it all out there. In the mean time, the nagging feeling that even in 2018 my wife was lying to me about fucking my friend was deeply troubling to me. I finally told her that if she wanted to stay married, she had to sit down with me and go through it all until I was confident she had admitted everything. We did that two nights ago.
It's been agony to know that my wife fucked my best friend for about three years, did it under my nose, concealed it for five years, and then slow walked the truth for six months. She's remorseful, she's finally admitted everything as best I can tell, and we are going to try to reconcile. Still, I have moments where I want to find X and make him regret what he did or pack my wife's stuff and put her on the street. I love my wife, and I think we are going to live happily ever after, but it won't be without great effort.

[This message edited by DomesticTourist at 3:07 PM, November 4th (Sunday)]

Butforthegrace posted 11/6/2018 09:23 AM

Domestic: Why don't you post this in Just Found Out or General? You'll get some good advice there.

It's extremely unlikely your WW has found remorse this soon after DDay. It takes most wayward spouses a year or more to find true remorse, if they ever find it.

She may feel regret over having been finally caught out. She may feel sadness and fear about the repercussions. But given the duration of her limerent affair, and its recently, true remorse is not likely.

I would suggest a few things. First, post this in JFO or General. Second, go to The Healing Library (yellow box, top left) and read about The 180. This is intended as a way to give you time and space to clear your head so that you can start to find your heart's truth.

Third, buy a copy of "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair", by Linda MacDonald, and both of you read it.

Fourth, you write out a detailed timeline of your EA with your old flame. Include copies of all incriminating emails, and all "dirty details" to the extent there are any. Give it to your WW, and ask her to do the same for her A.

Finally, give yourself at least 90 days before you make any major decisions. In the meantime, if sexual intimacy is an issue, consider moving to a different room in your house.

Good luck.

DomesticTourist posted 11/6/2018 14:34 PM

Domestic: Why don't you post this in Just Found Out or General? You'll get some good advice there.
It's extremely unlikely your WW has found remorse this soon after DDay. It takes most wayward spouses a year or more to find true remorse, if they ever find it.

She may feel regret over having been finally caught out. She may feel sadness and fear about the repercussions. But given the duration of her limerent affair, and its recently, true remorse is not likely.

I would suggest a few things. First, post this in JFO or General. Second, go to The Healing Library (yellow box, top left) and read about The 180. This is intended as a way to give you time and space to clear your head so that you can start to find your heart's truth.

Third, buy a copy of "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair", by Linda MacDonald, and both of you read it.

Fourth, you write out a detailed timeline of your EA with your old flame. Include copies of all incriminating emails, and all "dirty details" to the extent there are any. Give it to your WW, and ask her to do the same for her A.

Finally, give yourself at least 90 days before you make any major decisions. In the meantime, if sexual intimacy is an issue, consider moving to a different room in your house.

Good luck.

Thanks for your comments. To clarify, the affair ended, without doubt and completely, over five years ago. My wife's disclosure of the affair was six months ago. In the five years since the end of the affair, my wife has been the wife every one of us would want, except for the ongoing concealment of her wrong. As to her behavior toward me, I couldn't ask for more. We've had extensive discussions about who did what with whom and where. We've both had all the questions answered by the other that we want answered. Sexual intimacy is not a problem. I probably will cross post this just for traffic and other's thoughts on my situation.
Thanks for your suggestions.

Butforthegrace posted 11/6/2018 16:51 PM

I didn't pick up on the timeline of A versus disclosure, but my comment on remorse still stands. The cornerstone of remorse is empathy. A WW who has empathy for the depth of the trauma she causes her BH can move from that empathy to a place of true remorse, where she places the effort to help you heal as her first priority.

To get there, she must first grock the depth of your trauma. Your trauma, of course, springs from date of disclosure. Experience here suggests it takes a WW quite a while to get to this place. This is in part because she herself has significant regrets and other bad feelings, for the bad stuff she herself is experiencing, as a result of the A having come to light. Waywards are by their nature selfish and self-focused. It takes time for a wayward to move beyond feeling bad about her own pain, and instead having empathy for yours.

DomesticTourist posted 11/6/2018 17:06 PM

That makes sense. I really can't know whether she's feeling remorse or regret or anything else, but her behavior is everything I need right now so that's good.

behindbars posted 11/7/2018 02:20 AM

Chevy and Sisson thanks for your words of wisdom. Iím in counseling now, itís helped me a lot.

Butforthegrace posted 11/7/2018 05:34 AM

DomesticTourist: You have likely found the thread here about people who find out about affairs years later. In addition to that thread, I would suggest you search for threads currently active in JFO, General, and/or Reconciliation by:

BetrayedinUT
AmbivalentOne

In the case of BetrayedinUT, he is wrestling with the fact that, after the A ended but before he discovered it, his WW was tepid at best in terms of her engagement with the marriage. Not a great wife nor marriage.

In the case of AmbivalentOne, his WW's A ended when her AP died in an automobile crash. After a period of mourning, she became the "perfect wife" and remained that way for years until he stumbled upon a cache of emails, photos, etc., documenting her A. Among other things, she had been incredibly sexually aggressive and open with the AP, and had ridiculed her BH to the AP, including mocking his penis size, etc. He could not erase those images, and could not escape the feeling that her "Stepford Wife" act after the demise of her A was just that -- an act. He felt like he was definitely her Plan B, which she resorted to only after her A ended.

I commend these to your reading. Your WW may have been a perfect "Stepford Wife" for these past 5 years, but at some point you may find yourself having a gnawing doubt about whether that would have been the case had the A fulfilled her dreams and continued, that feeling that you are her "Plan B", that she has settled for you only because her "Plan A" didn't work out as she hoped. After all, without your knowledge, she carried on with this other man for years, putting him ahead of you, and only "returned" to you when the A didn't work out. This is a common feeling among betrayed spouses generally, but it seems moreso among spouses who find out years later.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 9:50 AM, November 7th (Wednesday)]

Butforthegrace posted 11/7/2018 12:48 PM

Gents, no political threads amongst the lot o' you? Nothing that gives me an opportunity to write another sensational segue from politics to more acceptable subject matter?

sisoon posted 11/7/2018 14:00 PM

DomesticTourist, I have great skepticism about empathy. I can imagine how I'd feel under given conditions, but I can't really know how another person feels. That means, I believe, another person can't feel my pain....

So IMO, honesty is the cornerstone of R, honesty with oneself and with one's partner. From that, you can decide what you both want your M to be, and R can follow if your vision for your M is close enough.

I also think it's important to keep in mind that R is only one course of action. Personally, the fact that D always remained an option made it easier for me to stay committed to R - sort of a corollary of 'yes' is meaningless unless 'no' is also an option. Just sharing; some people do better by shutting off the D option. You just have to figure out who you are.

Welcome and best of luck - good luck is always welcome.

DomesticTourist posted 11/7/2018 20:49 PM

Sisoon,

I hate that it took my threat to divorce her to get the full truth out of her.

I donít hate, however, that when I put it like that to her she finally understood the depth of the wound she had made.

I am not one to play games or manipulate people, but keeping the binary choice open here is seemingly actually helping move us in the direction I want to go.

sisoon posted 11/16/2018 17:38 PM

DT, Sorta late responding, I just want to say: DT, Your posts make you sound like a person who means what he says, and says what he means.

Happy Friday, gents, the first Friday in Winter, 2018-19 for many of us.

I travel east through the Alleghenies on Monday, and back West about 10 days from that. Wish me luck!

I'm not likely to be on much for 10-12 days starting Monday, so I wish you all a happy and thankful Thanksgiving.

Also, I want to mention that I always write 'd-day' when I mean discovery day. 'D-Day' I reserve for June 6, 1944. If you ever talk with someone who was in the invasion force, you'll know why I do that.

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:39 PM, November 16th (Friday)]

Tred posted 11/16/2018 21:38 PM

Happy Friday, gents, the first Friday in Winter, 2018-19 for many of us.

I thought we were still in Autumn? Did I miss a solstice . However, we just had an inconvenient storm blow through that didn't give a rats ass what season was currently in progress. Happy Friday Menz...

And SIsoon, completely understand the differentiating of little d vs. big D. Keeps it in perspective. A lot of what we experience in present day gets ascribed to past events to try to explain the magnitude of some event. As if transcribing a label makes it equivalent. It's the same as claiming some personal goal as "my Everest". But it's a way to convey some level of impact by crappy metaphor. I don't think the aim is true equivalence but sometimes we just lack a better way to get things across.

But I digress. Hope everyone is doing well enough and that the beer is cold.

sisoon posted 11/17/2018 12:15 PM

Hey, Tred! The solstice is, in fact, more than a month away, but a lot of us are experiencing snow already....

I don't mean to diminish the pain of d-day by not capitalizing the word(s?). It's just way different from storming a beach with people shooting big bullets and heavy artillery at you.

I don't capitalize 'ap' or 'om/ow' either. That's my small way of showing contempt for them.

Butforthegrace posted 11/18/2018 08:01 AM

I thought we were still in Autumn? Did I miss a solstice

Only calendar winter begins at the solstice. Meteorological winter is generally agreed to be the three calendar months with the lowest average temperature. In most northern climes, this would be December, January, and February. Here in the high prairie, we have been experiencing unseasonable cold for some time. It was 3F when I woke up.

How many of you can define what the solstice actually is?

Cephastion posted 11/19/2018 06:26 AM

...

How many of you can define what the solstice actually is?

Solstice is that time or season when the heart and soul of one's alleged soul sister (or soul-mate) turns to ice. "Souls-t-ice".

It grows dark and cold, goes from love to bitterness and lawlessness, and turns from warm and playful and light...to twisted and heartbreaking and crushing and dense.

It often occurs at low points in the seasons of life like around funerals of loved ones or other times of crisis or great need.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 6:30 AM, November 19th (Monday)]

Butforthegrace posted 11/19/2018 07:27 AM

Ceph, I like the "backronym" etymology. Gave me a chuckle.

The word actually comes from the Latin "sol" ("sun") plus "sistere" ("to stand still"). The solstice is not a day, contrary to popular usage. It is a point in time. Specifically, as the sun migrates to its apparent highest (summer solstice) or lowest (winter solstice) point in the sky when viewed from the Northern Hemisphere, the solstice is the point at which that migration stops and then reverses. It is extremely difficult to measure, even with sensitive instruments. The relative change in motion for the week or so preceding and following the solstice is close to zero. Most people calculate the solstice by interpolating between data points measured further out, where the relative motion is greater.

In a bigger picture, if one were to graph the relative length of night/day over the course of a year, the result would look sort of like a sin wave. The solstices would be the peak and valley of the curve, respectively. The several-week period before and after the solstice, where the curve is relatively flat, mark extended periods of prolonged long or short nights (winter/summer). The equinox falls in the middle of the steepest part of the curve, where change is most rapid. In latitudes around 45 degrees, daylight can change at the rate of 6-8 minutes per day.

The long dark night was studied a lot by the Celts, who lived around 52 degrees latitude. Their winter nights were very long and very dark, and winter daylight was tepid and weak. For them, the significant points were the "cross-quarters" -- the points between the equinox and the solstice, where the "shoulders" of the curve were located. The fall cross-quarter, which occurs about 6 weeks prior to the winter solstice, marks the beginning of a 3-month period of long, dark night. The Celts called this "Samhain" (which they pronounced "sam EEN"), but today we know the same day as "Halloween". The corresponding period in the spring is somewhere around our Ground Hog's Day. After early February, the northern hemisphere starts gaining a lot of daylight. For people living around 45 degrees latitude (as I do), in early February, we still go to work and come home in darkness, but by the end, there is daylight at both ends.

In the Middle Ages, as the Catholic Church spread its influence northward from central Europe, it began to create ersatz Christian saints and significant events in an effort to coopt Nordic pagan solar rituals such as these. So, for example, Samhain was coopted into "All Hallowed Saints Eve", or Halloween. And a minor saint was recognized for the Spring cross-quarter, St. Valentine.

Even our modern Christmas is an invention for this same purpose, to coopt pagan solstice rituals. Early Christians did not celebrate the birth of Christ. The Resurrection is the core building block of Christianity. Further, the archeological clues from the Bible suggest the birth of Christ occurred some time in the Spring, not around the solstice. But the catholic church created "St. Nicholas" (note how it is a homophone to "Santa Clause"?) to complete its effort to convince Nordic folks to abandon their paganism and join the catholic church so that they would then give money to the church. This tension has never gone away, hence the annual tooth-gnashing and hand-wringing about how the commercialism and party ethos of Christmas is anathema to the Christian view of Christmas.

Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum List

Return to I Can Relate

© 2002-2020 SurvivingInfidelity.com ®. All Rights Reserved.     Privacy Policy