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BS Questions for WS's - Part 12

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godheals posted 9/12/2018 18:44 PM

devastedone-ď I was not looking to have a AĒ or ďit just happenĒ for me I didnít wake up one day thinking I think I will cheat or have a A. It was not planned out. Even the day before AP and I started out I never thought this or thought I ever would. We started out talking and told myself he was just going to be friends and as long as I kept it in the ďfriendsĒ zone it will be ok. But I slowly let my guard down, each time we saw each other or we talked. He made a lot of the first moves so I told myself HE did it not me. Once I knew I had cross the line I kept saying it was a small line it was no big deal until I knew I was cheating but at that point I kept saying it was ok because my H never pays attention to me and if he cared I would not have to seek out for attention.

I knew deep down it was wrong but I kept telling myself things to contuine and make it ok. I made excuses to do it. I also thought the damage is done I canít take it back so why stop? Like kissing him once and stopping would of been the same if we did more and contuined. I hope that part makes sense. Like I could not redeemed myself after crossing the line the first time. I told myself my H would never find out because it was easy since he was never around. Like he could not question my actions or behavior because he would of not notice anything different from me. Plus I never thought my H and I would be together forever so once we were not longer together I would been off the hook and no reason to tell him.

I didnít plan it but after a while I wanted it because it was nice to have someone to talk with. Someone asking me how was your day, how are feeling ect. It was the attention I was seeking. Parts of me wanted to walk away because I did know it was wrong but my reasons I told myself made it felt like it was ok. When I stared to question what the hell am I doing this is wrong! But then I would say well If my H wanted anything to do with me then I would not have seem around. With IC I have learned a lot on how to fulfill my own bucket and not depend on anyone to make me happy and it was not anyone elseís job to make me happy but me

Lucky77 posted 9/13/2018 05:44 AM

Hi Devastatedone,

If you never wanted an A, why didn't you stop it when it got to be too much and you knew there was no turning back?

How can a "good" person transform into a monster once the A has started. What triggers that?

Just like your H I wasn't A shopping. My AP and I were work colleagues and interfaced frequently. Like any work relationship we spoke about personal things all the time. And then the thousands of small transgressions started. And then my defenses started to weaken. And then the dopamine highs started and I wanted to be in touch with her more and more. And then the regular emails and constant texting. Our personalities started to wrap around each other and it was intoxicating. She praised me. Made me feel young and desirable.

So your H feels like he didn't choose the A. It's like the A chose him, I guess. But it didn't. He chose it. He just doesn't want to admit it. Us waywards have a frayed moral character despite wanting to look upstanding and morally intact.

Brokendreamlife posted 9/15/2018 14:53 PM

Compartmentalizing - I just don't understand how a WS (wh in my case) can really and truly do it. I posted over in General and had some really helpful responses, but it has been suggested that I post here so that I can get the waywards perspective. My WH says that he was able to keep doing what he was doing for so long (getting extra curricular sex a couple of times a month) as he didn't think about me. That hurts me obviously, but I don't understand how he couldn't have not thought about me and the damage it would do to us. I also don't understand how he can say he didn't think about me, and that it was almost a different reality, when at times we were in the house together when he would message her. He called her when he popped out to the store, he left work early to sleep with her, knowing that he was coming straight home to me after. How, or why wasn't I considered? I am also struggling to understand when he says he didn't think about the consequences at the time.... we are talking about a very intelligent man here, how can you not realise what the consequences of your actions would be? He says that only when he actually saw the consequences and what it has done to me, does he really realise how greedy, selfish, stupid and abhorrent his actions were.
So, if any waywards can help me to understand what he means I would love to hear, as I just don't get ot, or is it that I just don't buy it?

devastedone posted 9/16/2018 13:45 PM

Thank you to all who responded. Your answers are very much appreciated. And are very similar to what my WH has said.

I guess there are some things I just won't be able to understand. I doesn't make me a better person by any means--I have my faults for sure--but I continue to struggle why and how he did this. How he could continue to walk in the house, day after day, knowing he had just been with her, yet happy to see me and the kids and all the other stuff that comes with it--good and bad.

I guess compartmentalization...but still. He knew how much it would devastate us yet he continued until he was caught. He rationalizes by saying that he didn't think I'd find out, or that he thought that even if I did our M was strong enough to survive. My response was that I thought our M was strong enough too, but I thought it was strong enough to avoid infidelity, not strong enough to survive infidelity. He robbed me of a very precious thing...which is the unconditional trust I had in him and in our M. Honestly, it is what it is now--he greatly regrets that our M will never be the same in my eyes. Natural consequences.

I work with several men with whom I have a very nice relationship. We chat about work, our home lives, our kids. One person in particular--we work closely with each other and have some pretty intense decisions to make together. I think about it...like all normal people I suppose...but honestly, can't imagine taking that next step. Something tells me to walk away when I feel the conversation gets too personal. And I do.

Thank you for your responses and I appreciate all of you who so patiently answer our questions. I would love to hear other perspectives as well, so again, thank you.

Even after 4 years, a day doesn't go by where I don't think about it. Or find myself asking the same questions. Overthinking? Maybe. But I guess I just consider it continuing to process the trauma of it all.

Lorisa posted 9/16/2018 13:50 PM

Being a BS, I struggle with the fact that my husband had the best sex with his AP because it was a secret and exciting. We will never have that. To the WS, was it far more exciting than marriage sex? Can your sex with you BS ever have that type of excitement?

Barregirl posted 9/16/2018 15:55 PM

To the WS, was it far more exciting than marriage sex? Can your sex with you BS ever have that type of excitement?

My sex with the AP was just sex. It was not the best sex, or the most exciting sex, it was just sex. In the time since dday, my BH and I have had some really amazing sex. We have made it exciting as one of the conditions of R was more frequency and more experimentation. Sex with my H is way better than sex with the AP.

IdiotMe posted 9/16/2018 16:33 PM

I'm also wondering if there are any WS out there who went to massage parlors?

If so, were you still having sex with your wife? And if no, did you try and get shut down or did you not even bother? And if you didn't bother...why not?

What exactly happens at these places?

Do you hate your wife? And if so, why not get a divorce?

Do you think you will do it again since you've been caught? Do you think about it all the time? Are you ashamed of your behavior or are you bummed out you were caught?

Did it make you happy overall or was it a "just for the moment" sort of happiness?

WilliamM posted 9/16/2018 23:11 PM

How did you feel about yourself, or what was your view of yourself, during the affar?

hikingout posted 9/17/2018 10:52 AM

Compartmentalizing - I just don't understand how a WS (wh in my case) can really and truly do it. I posted over in General and had some really helpful responses, but it has been suggested that I post here so that I can get the waywards perspective. My WH says that he was able to keep doing what he was doing for so long (getting extra curricular sex a couple of times a month) as he didn't think about me. That hurts me obviously, but I don't understand how he couldn't have not thought about me and the damage it would do to us. I also don't understand how he can say he didn't think about me, and that it was almost a different reality, when at times we were in the house together when he would message her. He called her when he popped out to the store, he left work early to sleep with her, knowing that he was coming straight home to me after. How, or why wasn't I considered? I am also struggling to understand when he says he didn't think about the consequences at the time.... we are talking about a very intelligent man here, how can you not realise what the consequences of your actions would be? He says that only when he actually saw the consequences and what it has done to me, does he really realise how greedy, selfish, stupid and abhorrent his actions were.
So, if any waywards can help me to understand what he means I would love to hear, as I just don't get ot, or is it that I just don't buy it?


Here is what my take on it is...


When the A begins, whatever "begins" means in the context of the details, the person having the A feels a huge draw to it for whatever reason. For me, it was a lot of things. It was an escape from my stressful life, it was invigorating to feel wanted, interesting, attractive, etc. I liked the attention yes, but I also liked the escape.


So, in essence, lets just say for whatever reason the person doing it really wants to. Why can be different, but they want it. (It's not usually anything to do with anything special about the AP when I say why - nor is it about the spouse - it's about us. We are putting ourselves above every one and every thing)


So, enter cognitive dissonance. If you haven't read about that, I would encourage you to do that. In essence what happens is we know what we want is wrong, but we ignore it. We ignore thoughts about consequences, hurting others, we ignore our own integrity and really what the core of our being knows would be a better route. All sorts of stuff happens to make it work. Stuffing our feelings, pushing down thoughts, lying to ourselves, brainwashing ourselves with justifications (we start re-writing the marriage, etc).


The endorphins are high, so we avoid thoughts or explorations because they would be "downers". We only want the euphoria to flow. We exaggerate the desirability of the AP, the Affair, and we exaggerate just the opposite in our spouse. The longer this goes on I would believe the worse this is.


[This message edited by hikingout at 10:54 AM, September 17th (Monday)]

hikingout posted 9/17/2018 13:03 PM

How did you feel about yourself, or what was your view of yourself, during the affar?

Self-reflection was minimal during my affair. I didn't do a lot of evaluating at all. The way I felt during the affair was that I was sexy, funny, clever, playful, vibrant, and very alive.

Easy to paint the picture you want to paint in fantasy land. I look back and see myself as desperate, disgusting, no integrity or self worth, SELFISH, a disappointment, and ridiculous.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:03 PM, September 17th (Monday)]

WilliamM posted 9/17/2018 16:28 PM

So is you felt

sexy, funny, clever, playful, vibrant, and very alive.
during the affair, what would keep a WS from seeking those feelings again?

Aftershockgoldfish posted 9/18/2018 14:47 PM

Question for WWs: For those of you who are not menopausal, what are expectations in R like during PMS?

WW has been hit by hormonal mood swings much harder in her 30s, and often expressed that she just isn't capable of more leading up to her period.

Now, I am also a woman, I GET IT. Two cycles in one marriage is hard. If all bets were off during PMS, we would have at least half of every month without true accountability between us.

What slack/leeway do you expect from your BS during PMS? Thanks in advance!

MrsWalloped posted 9/20/2018 08:48 AM

How did you feel about yourself, or what was your view of yourself, during the affar?

Valued, worthwhile, loved, happy, sexy, feminine.
and very alive.

Ugh. Sooo true!
what would keep a WS from seeking those feelings again?

A whole bunch of things. I guess the first thing is to understand that none of those feelings were based on anything real. It was a constructed fantasy. So they werenít going to last and they didnít have any depth to them. But in the middle of my A, I didnít look deeply into any of that. It was just a live in the moment thing and I craved the feelings I was getting, even if they werenít based on anything substantial.

The other thing is the work Iíve done to understand why I felt I was lacking in certain things and the other thought processes which made me feel the way I did before my A. I really donít want to get into a rehash of my therapy but addressing those feelings and understanding I am a valued showed me that I wasnít missing out on those feelings or that the negative feelings were misguided. I just didnít appreciate what I had in life to feel loved and valued and worthwhile.

Also do want those feelings and Iíve been working with my BH on reaffirming those feelings. Me to him and him to me. The difference is that theyíre grounded in real love and substance. And those feelings are coming from healthier places instead of looking elsewhere for them. I think thatís a key point. Thereís nothing wrong with those feelings. As long as you understand your motivation for them and look to be fulfilled in a healthy way (yourself, your M, and your family).

Seateasea posted 9/21/2018 10:12 AM

I met my wife in high school and she is my first and only sex partner. We have been married for 37 years during which time I thought that I was her first and only as well. Two years into our marriage she and a friend of hers went drinking and were picked up by a couple of guys. My wife went to a local park where she says they kissed. She told me of this when I questioned her about her coming home so late. A couple of days latter she told me that he had also undone her pants and placed his hands on her butt. I became very mad and accused her of doing more. She denied doing more than kissing. So for the next few months I continued to accuse her cheating on me and not telling me the entire story. So at that point she decided that if I was going to accuse her of being a cheater she might as well be one. She then started a 3-4 month affair with my best friend. I found out about the affair 8 months ago. The affair happened 35 years ago. My question is, can a person truely not remember the details of an affair as my wife states? She says she remembers having sex twice and never at our home. Her AP says they had sex 10-15 times and at both his and our homes. She says she does not remember how it started, when it started, how many times they had sex, how long it lasted. She says she does not remember having him at our home. She says she does not even remember how the two of them ended up in bed having sex the first time. She also says she is not sure who the aggressor was. Is it really possible to forget all this? She says that for 35 years she has suppressed her memories of her affair as it is too painful for her to recall.

ToABetter30th posted 9/21/2018 18:23 PM

I find the lying and the trickle truth to be the most ridiculous and unreasonable position in the world. Your WS has already admitted to having sex twice. Two times or 100 times...at that point betrayal is betrayal. I would lend more weight to the AP as he's got nothing to gain or lose by lying.

For goodness sake, just tell the truth already! Come clean. I don't believe that people can't remember unless it is too many to count. My WW lied about the dumbest stuff. After the next lie came out, I was like "why lie about that?" That is like saying that you robbed a bank and then lie about not running a red light on the getaway. There is only a downside to holding out details and continuing to lie. When you are in a hole then stop digging!

wifehad5 posted 9/22/2018 20:15 PM

PM for you ToABetter30th

EvolvingSoul posted 9/22/2018 21:17 PM

Hi there Seateasea,

if I was going to accuse her of being a cheater she might as well be one
She already was one. A married person who gets "picked up", goes to a park, kisses another man and lets him undo her pants is cheating.
she decided that if I was going to accuse her of being a cheater she might as well be one.
This is just blame-shifting. She was already a cheater, she just kept on being a cheater.
can a person truely not remember the details of an affair as my wife states? She says she remembers having sex twice and never at our home. Her AP says they had sex 10-15 times and at both his and our homes. She says she does not remember how it started, when it started, how many times they had sex, how long it lasted. She says she does not remember having him at our home. She says she does not even remember how the two of them ended up in bed having sex the first time. She also says she is not sure who the aggressor was. Is it really possible to forget all this?
It is possible to forget things selectively but given that she lied about this for so long it's completely possible that she's lying now to minimize damage. Did she come clean about the affair on her own or did you find out some other way? Would she be willing to take a poly?

SweetCreamPie posted 9/22/2018 22:41 PM

WSs:

I am new to affair recovery and am having a hard time asking my wife details about her sexlife with her AP.

Can you please share your experience on how your BS asked you about the details of your sexlife with your AP? What methods are the best methods for asking ? What topics are important or not important ? What topics should be avoided ?

Do you have any experience being asked the really difficult questions about comparisons to AP ? How did that go ? Should those questions be avoided ?


I will take all the help I can on this topic.

Thanks

EvolvingSoul posted 9/22/2018 23:14 PM

Hi there SweetCreamPie,

My BS did ask me questions about the details of sex. What kind of sex, whether we used protection, etc. He didn't ask all at once, more as it came up for him. Most of that was at a time that I was not very remorseful and so at the time revealing the details was not as painful for me then as it is now, thinking back on it.

That said, you need to know what you need to know and from what I've read from the BS's here it is very individual. Some don't want any detail, and some need every single detail. Only you can decide what's right for you but what ever that is, your WS should give you all the answers you need.

It can be helpful for your WS to write out two timelines of the affair. One with the basic facts (who, what, when, where) and one with the gory details. That way you can have it to process at your own pace rather than have everything dumped on you in one session.

A list of written questions can also be helpful.

Were I you I would pose your question to the BS's as well, if you have not already, on the Reconciliation or General forum on on Just Found Out if it's a recent discovery.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

Strength and healing to you from this EvolvingSoul.

SweetCreamPie posted 9/22/2018 23:29 PM

Evolving Soul

What does that mean that it was not painful to reveal details since you were not remorseful? Those details are the most painful things I have ever thought about in my life. How can they not be painful to tell your spouse.

How did it become painful to discuss the details after you became remorseful. When did you become remorseful ? How did you become remorseful ?

My wife doesn't even seem to care about the details so maybe she isn't remorseful.

Should I not ask any sex questions until she becomes remorseful ?

[This message edited by SweetCreamPie at 11:32 PM, September 22nd (Saturday)]

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