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BS Questions for WS's - Part 12

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journey posted 6/18/2018 17:32 PM

Have you truly told everything about the affair? Completely and totally? Or only what you can remember because you hated what you have done that you have pushed much of the affair out of your mind? Or until you saw that your spouse was satisfied about the information they had? If you have not completely told the full story, why not?

I don't feel comfortable saying yes, but my BH knows everything. I did not willingly share. He obtained details from AP and already knew most of it. He knew when I was withholding information, lying, minimizing for the most part (sexual details). Some of the information given to him were lies as well but because I lied about others he believed the AP more than me. I don't blame him. He wanted me to share it on my own (and confirm) but I was too ashamed and thought if he knew it would be over.

journey posted 6/18/2018 17:44 PM

Do you guys talk about old things before affair???

BH and I do talk about things before the affair, quite a lot actually. I do not believe he feels it was fake, only those months leading up to and during the 3 month A were. I am not sure if the length of the affair changes that, I feel like it would in some ways.
Looking at it from my perspective (a WW), I do feel like it was somewhat fake. I was not authentic. I did not let him see the real me, I had walls up that I refused to tear down for him over 13 years. I feel like I sabotaged our entire relationship and robbed us of so many experiences. Thankfully, I have a gracious and compassionate husband who believes in me and has given me a chance to be authentic with him and experience life as we should have many years ago.

Estirpe posted 6/19/2018 07:30 AM

Thank you hikingout for taking the time to answer my questions.

FoenixRising posted 6/19/2018 08:14 AM

Estirupe-

How is it possible that before you get caught you told your BS "I'm not attracted to you" "ilybnilwy" and all of the sudden a couple of weeks after Dday you feel attracted and love the BS.
The only thing I can compare it to is the drug addict that is in so deep that they are willing to steal money from family members to support their habit. When you are in it, it’s all you can see. At least that’s how I imagine it. My situation is a bit different because months before the A, BS and I discussed how our marriage was pretty much dead and I asked for a divorce. The affair was not even a gleam in my eye at that point.



How is it possible that during your affair your Bs tells you to stop because he is suspecting something but you kept going because you thought you never gonna get caught and still don't feel any guilt for what you are doing against the husband and children?

My BS never told me to stop. He did almost catch us once and we scathed by. I knew that we would likely get caught and so did AP. I just didn’t know how that would work. I thought AP and I had a future bc that’s we talked about. I kept going with relatively no guilt toward my H bc as far as I was concerned the M was dead and had been for years. We had been struggling for years, coasting on empty and I did try and try and try to save us but my actions were shunned. I checked out and was miserable. I should have realized that in order for us to work on “us”, I needed to work on myself first and make myself individually happy making healthy choices instead of adulterous ones. I think that is why I had little guilt with AP. As for my children, I thought that they would be happier if I was happy and had planned to leave once I was financially stable enough to support myself. I had guilt for AP’s wife bc I really stabbed her in the back but I validated it bc what AP and I had was “so real” and a force stronger than us. I will always be regretful and so sorry that I hurt how I did bc we were friends. HE wasn’t happy in his M either and he thought the same of his kiddo… that everyone would be happier if our marriages dissolved and AP and I moved on together. Lord knows how much I hear the ridiculous in that now.


If roles were reversed and the shoes were on your feet, would you believe all those things you tell the Bs after being caught?
Let's say I'm your Ws and I start telling you, I love you, I'm attracted to you, I want my family together, you are the love of my life, etc. Wouldn't you feel like a second choice after seeing I have trespassed both barriers, the emotional one that affect most women by exchanging I love you's, I miss you, thinking of you, and the one that affect most men, the physical, the sex.

Heres the thing… after d day and some time recovering independently, I was ready to move on and D BS. I wanted to. Not bc of AP. That was over. I wanted to D bc our M felt dead for years and the idea of going back to that suffocated me. I knew I needed to leave that marriage for my own health. For my kids health. I put no demands on BS. He is/was free to make decisions for himself and I want him to bc his happiness really is equally important to me. But BS saw this as a wake up call. He admitted that he ignored all my prior pleas to work on us and neglected our relationship even when he knew that I was desperate to connect. HE understood that I couldn’t and wouldn’t go back to that marriage. I couldn’t leave the house yet bc I was still not financially stable enough to stand on my own so we were kinda stuck together under one roof. In the months post d day, BS decided that he did want our marriage to work. That he could forgive me for my infidelity and that he wanted to make “us” a priority. Could his reasons have been kids, mortgage, worrying about D costs? Sure. But I know he loves me and I love him. Being in love after years of marriage and kids and moves, and school and mortgages and bills and house work looks a lot different than the feelings of being in love in an affair. Affairs don’t involve any of the hard, challenging aspects of a marriage. Bc there are children, a mortgage all that, isn’t that enough to at least TRY to make it work? Of course I’m attracted to BS. I always have been. I always will be. And I will always, no matter what, love him. He is my best friend and I let him down. HE’s willing to work to be the man I married, I am willing to work to be the woman he married.

You are worried about feeling like second choice. Have you ever made your spouse feel like second choice? Even something small like choosing to hang out with friends when you know BS wants to hang out with you? Or picking your FOO over BS in some way or another? Have you ever let him/her down? My H was my first choice. That’s why he’s the only man I have ever married and will ever marry. That’s why I chose to have children with him and only him. That’s why when he said he wanted to really work on us as couple, I picked him over moving out on my own. My first choice is him and our family and all that we built. As long as he is willing to work on everything too, (and I mean work on it, the good bad and ugly) and not just say he’s going to, then I am too. I’ll spend the rest of my life trying to make him feel like he really is first choice, because he is. Ugh, that was a lot of rambling but theraputic for me. I hope that helps you some how. Good luck.

MidnightRun posted 6/19/2018 12:59 PM

How do you make sex unique within the marriage once again? Virgin positions, outdoor experiences,etc.?

Estirpe posted 6/19/2018 13:18 PM

He admitted that he ignored all my prior pleas to work on us and neglected our relationship even when he knew that I was desperate to connect.

Thanks for answer my questions, really appreciate it.

That is the issue, I was never told we had problems or the way she felt, now she is saying that she built resentments over time and that is what she was putting on her head during the affair. I also had resentments and didn't stray.
She says she will think about ways to communicate
to me on how she was feeling about the marriage but she couldn't do it for some reason.
I have never stopped validating her and giving her all kind of compliments, she deserved them until now.
I have never neglected her and put her as second choice either, again I was never told stay here don't go out with friends.

I do understand 50 percent of my marriage problems are mine but I was never given a choice to agree on her affair therefore I will never take a percentage of that.

[This message edited by Estirpe at 1:21 PM, June 19th (Tuesday)]

Estirpe posted 6/19/2018 13:32 PM

During the affair, was it a time you thought your AP was just using you for sex and really didnt have any feelings for you?

I sent flowers to my wife at work and AP told her "that is very nice of him", while suspecting her affair I asked her for divorce and AP said "sometimes you have to do a sacrifice for the kids", wouldn't that give him up as a POS.

Saying this because if I am with a woman and have good intentions for her that will kill me right there if and ex send her flowers. There is no such thing as a confident in love man, it does not exist, when a man loves a woman for real is possessive in a good way.
I asked her what would you think if under other circumstances you show up with flowers and I don't ask you where did you get them from. Her answer was something like you are no longer interested or no longer in love with me. How come she didn't see that on the AP?

Barregirl posted 6/19/2018 14:58 PM

MidnightRun- my H and I are not reinventing the wheel, but we are more playful with each other. Pre-A sex was rare and not so great. We have instituted a no phones in the bedroom policy. We have introduced toys (which I have always been a fan of, but he has never experienced), and we now listen to each others' wants and needs. We both agreed to no more crappy sex, and we have seriously upped the frequency. Any time we spend focused on each other is great, and the sex is so much better than I ever imagined it could be.

Darkness Falls posted 6/19/2018 15:24 PM

MidnightRun,

The only way sex is unique between us is that we made babies with it twice. There was nothing special or unique pre-A either.

Smjsome1 posted 6/19/2018 18:47 PM

Hi -
My WH has 1 giant all in 6 1/2 week affair, before that - a lot of online affairs, sexting affairs, and one EA turned ONS. His giant affair and the AP stalking him for 6 months afterwards tore me up, still does. I didn’t know about the previous because he was very good at hiding his stuff.

My DD’s are less than a year old, and I’m hanging onto the fence hard. I do not want to be hurt again.

He’s been officially diagnosed as an SA, seems a CSAT, group, etc. I’m in IC too. No MC yet.

Now my question - at some point he described the big destructive A as a fantasy, he used the word euphoric. But he says now we we have (and it’s a hell rollercoaster) is “so much better” than the fantasy. That even when I tell him I hate him all day, but me him hug me for a few minutes, it feels better then the A fantasy. That every day is “so much better because it’s real”

I find hard to understand how a real life, with dishes, and trash, and a depressed wife who occasionally thinks she might see a change for the better, who isn’t sure she can forgive you, can be so much better than a euphoric, Fantasy of love and sex.

Can anyone explain to me, how do you go from fantasy to real and feel happy?

Lucky77 posted 6/20/2018 08:13 AM

Hi Smjs,
Your H sounds like quite the wildman. He and I are of similar ages and years married so I kind of get him. He’s a serial cheater. Getting him under control is going to be, is and will continue to be quite a project for you.

Sometimes us idiot guys are like little puppies when it comes to women and each one that goes by gets our attention like a squirrel to a puppy…….ooh gotta go to see what that one’s about………

So attraction to the opposite sex is deeply primal. The key is to not act on little fantasies. While its fine to acknowledge an attractive female he needs to keep his d**k in his pants. That’s where it gets complicated. It’s hard to understand why one chooses to act on a fantasy rather than just park it.

I was all about the fantasy for a while, all caught up in the A Fog. Until I realized that she did not have a magic p**sy and was just a regular person. Unicorn land was all made up. My W was a saint and where I belonged.

You will need to keep Mr. Womanizer on a really short leash……puppy analogy still intact. Know all his passwords. Know his whereabouts. Get him off Craigslist and out of bars He has to go NC. Maybe look at IC for him and figure out his why’s.

Somewhere along the way he’s had some significant damage to get a SA diagnosis.

MidnightRun posted 6/20/2018 08:37 AM

What's your definition of love?

MidnightRun posted 6/20/2018 08:38 AM

Dbl. post

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 8:39 AM, June 20th (Wednesday)]

hikingout posted 6/20/2018 08:43 AM

Midnight run-

How do you make sex unique within the marriage once again? Virgin positions, outdoor experiences,etc.?

Well, I was in a short term A, with very few physical encounters. The AP didn't get much of a full menu, it was actually fairly vanilla.

My H and I always had a great sex life. Experimental, open. I have opened a few boundaries that we tried in the past and I didn't enjoy to re-experience them. I mean when we are kids, we didn't like all kinds of food and then one day our palates changed right? I have seen our sex life move towards that, to see if some of the preferences change and some actually have. But, we have done most things that a couple can do, so we are revisiting things we haven't visited in a long time. We are still having HB right now so we are constantly doing something, and when we have to go out, sometimes it happens on the fly somewhere. So, I would say that my H could never claim that he always has gotten way more and the best of me - and he agrees with this. It feels new right now so I will stop because I could seriously gush about it.

MrsWalloped posted 6/20/2018 08:50 AM

Hi MidnightRun.

How do you make sex unique within the marriage once again? Virgin positions, outdoor experiences,etc.?

I think “unique” might be the wrong word. In our case, sex between us was unique before my A because we hadn’t had it with anyone else. But my A destroyed that. So for us I think of it in terms of making it “special.”

Also, while the sex itself with my AP wasn’t anything really different, the circumstances around it and my attitude was, and that heightened the whole experience. So I try to make sex more special with my BH. Like Barregirl, we are more playful, it’s more frequent, I initiate a lot, and we are more adventurous (like you said, different positions and locations, plus other things too).

hikingout posted 6/20/2018 08:52 AM

Estripe,

I do understand 50 percent of my marriage problems are mine but I was never given a choice to agree on her affair therefore I will never take a percentage of that.

As long as you both recognize that 100% of the affair is on her. Do not accept responsibility for that part of it. I don't know how far you are out but based on your sign up date, I am going to say not long. You can't really work on the Pre-A marriage at the same time you are recovering from the A. It should be she heals, you heal, and then you work more on the marriage too. There is only so much concentration that can be put out effectively. I am not saying don't communicate, but the emphasis needs to be on her working on herself and showing you that she is going to be safe and that she's all in.


During the affair, was it a time you thought your AP was just using you for sex and really didnt have any feelings for you?
I sent flowers to my wife at work and AP told her "that is very nice of him", while suspecting her affair I asked her for divorce and AP said "sometimes you have to do a sacrifice for the kids", wouldn't that give him up as a POS.
Saying this because if I am with a woman and have good intentions for her that will kill me right there if and ex send her flowers. There is no such thing as a confident in love man, it does not exist, when a man loves a woman for real is possessive in a good way.
I asked her what would you think if under other circumstances you show up with flowers and I don't ask you where did you get them from. Her answer was something like you are no longer interested or no longer in love with me. How come she didn't see that on the AP?

I can relate to much of this. Yes, there were definitely a lot of times that I felt it was more about sex for him. What you describe with the AP in your situation is much like the AP in mine - He is a cake-eater. He's not going to discourage the connection between the two of you because he doesn't really want her to leave you. It potentially causes him a major issue if that happens. And, I wouldn't be surprised if the AP in your situation was a serial cheater. They are much better at compartmentalizing all of that. It rings so much the same here as what I experienced. Though, I will tell you I was not a serial cheater, I didn't feel jealous of his wife either. The other spouse is there from the beginning of the A, it's accepted almost immediately. I imagine in longer term affairs one or both stop accepting it, but in a short term, you might say all sorts of stuff but in the back of your mind you never really think you are really going to end up with that person. It's a very confusing concept because most people confuse it for what it's like to date someone, and an A isn't like that. It's much darker.

hikingout posted 6/20/2018 09:02 AM

I find hard to understand how a real life, with dishes, and trash, and a depressed wife who occasionally thinks she might see a change for the better, who isn’t sure she can forgive you, can be so much better than a euphoric, Fantasy of love and sex.

It's complicated, but I will try.

Once you reach the remorse stage, you remember so much of the good that existed in the marriage before. You reflect a lot on your partner and what they have meant to you over the course of your life together. You want that back. It's probably never coming back in the same way, but as much of it as you can have, you want it.

Part of it is when you have the hindsight to turn around and look at what you traded for what you had, you almost want to punch yourself in the face. You cringe. You realize you were a fool and an idiot.

So, you try and ride the roller coaster to the best of your ability with the one you know you really want, the one you shouldn't have taken for granted, the real prize in the situation, and you patiently wait and hope they will heal. You know you want no one else, and while yes, it's not always fun and games and it's hard, there is no other place you would rather be. You know it's worth fighting for.

I am trying to think of an analogy. And, this one really probably doesn't fit because there aren't real drugs in the mix so you are more coherently/soberly making decisions...But I will use the example because it's more objective than a love relationship.

But lets say you took some drugs that made you feel euphoric. And you wanted to keep taking them so you could keep chasing the feeling. But, your life started falling apart and you did things that you regretted tremendously. And, you said, no more of these drugs. And the longer you were off the drugs you wish you hadn't wasted your life on them, and you wish you didn't have all this repairing to make from all these mistakes you made. Is it more fun to take the drugs than go to work? To take care of your responsibilities? Yes. But, is it healthier and more authentic to stay clean and get your life back? Yes, very much so. And, a well mind will gravitate more towards the repairs and moving forward with the healthy and right.

I don't know if I have answered you well, but it's the best I can explain it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:05 AM, June 20th (Wednesday)]

FoenixRising posted 6/20/2018 14:02 PM

Estirpe-

The affair is not your fault at all. Not even a little bit. The M before the A may have had some issues but it was your spouses resposibility to come to you pre A and say something along the lines of, "We need to talk. Something isn't working. I was approached by another man and started thinking I could have feelings for him. We need to fix us or part ways bc there is no room for infidelity in our marriage." She has to own the hurt shes inflicted upon you.

About the flowers... when youre in the A, you don't see things for what they are. I really can't explain it any other way. Very little else matters when you're in it. She will see. She will know how much she mattered to him. Time will show her and she will hurt and question how she was ever capable to ever do those things to you. I'm sorry you are hurting. YOu are SO right that you had no choice in this and yet you must pick up pieces.

Smjsome1 posted 6/20/2018 14:06 PM

Hikingout - thank you!
That’s an amazing explanation, and funnily enough, some of what he says, exactly

“you try and ride the roller coaster to the best of your ability with the one you know you really want, the one you shouldn't have taken for granted, the real prize in the situation, and you patiently wait and hope they will heal. You know you want no one else, and while yes, it's not always fun and games and it's hard, there is no other place you would rather be. You know it's worth fighting for”

And what you said about looking back too - he keeps trying to remind me of our history, the stuff we went thru together, survived, celebrated, etc.

I’m just so hurt and in pain that I just can’t trust or believe anything. It’s good to hear this from outside sources.

Luck77 -
Thank you -
he has an IC, and his damage from childhood is extensive, we both had very bad childhoods, we left our damage behind and created a life and family together.
Or so I thought. He didn’t I guess.
He never used CL, he never hung out in bars, he used dating web sites for his online affairs, and after retirement he just lost control of it. When I found out, I left, and when I finally came back I tried the short leash, it was too much for me, too stressful, so I said I’m done with that.
He gives me all the transparency, gps, etc, but honestly, I don’t look. It’s on him.
I hope he can really resist the fantasy, he has to want me for me.

MidnightRun posted 6/20/2018 21:22 PM

In given a second chance by bs, or you more apt to forgive others in general?

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