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Long Term Affairs Part 38

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BrokenheartedWif posted 9/18/2017 11:51 AM

((kikiI))

They are very conflict avoidant, such toddlers. (I just insulted toddlers)

kiki1 posted 9/18/2017 12:05 PM

Thank you for supporting. R was going well the last couple of years. He tt. Me up to year 4. Thought we were done with that. Some things I asked for he refused but I thought I could live with it. Mostly changing jobs. He met her there. Now I understand more why he wouldn't leave. I think it's false cause of the continued lying. Makes me feel like a nobody. My family and friends now of his 2 affairs. I will just say it wasn't working out. :) that's true. I don't want a man who continues to keep secrets. Better to be alone. He admits he still sees her but I don't know how much contact there is. Too much again. Can't live this way. Thank you so much again.

northeasternarea posted 9/18/2017 12:28 PM

Thank you for supporting. R was going well the last couple of years. He tt. Me up to year 4. Thought we were done with that. Some things I asked for he refused but I thought I could live with it. Mostly changing jobs. He met her there. Now I understand more why he wouldn't leave. I think it's false cause of the continued lying. Makes me feel like a nobody. My family and friends now of his 2 affairs. I will just say it wasn't working out. :) that's true. I don't want a man who continues to keep secrets. Better to be alone. He admits he still sees her but I don't know how much contact there is. Too much again. Can't live this way. Thank you so much again.

Kiki1, do what is best for you. To actually lie about the identity of the AP and continue to see her is unconscionable. Have you told him that you are done? Not that I think you owe him a damn thing.

Deejay523 posted 9/18/2017 12:28 PM

Hey all,
It's been 3yrs and 5m since DD of all DDs for me. ..
We have only been attempting reconciling since Dec 2016 before that it's just been a fkn blur ..
During this period we have gone over a lot I mostly just got the Basic Time frames just the basic information ..
And a lot of agreements, a list to work through. .
On this list he had agreed upon...

He agreed, to answer any and all questions I have (Ha what a fkn joke this has been so far it's been more like one word answers and some are ridiculously not believable )

He agreed upon, telling his story telling me details of what happened what I wanted to know from beginning to end . . (As I said I got the basics the details have been mostly dribs and drabs, only what he wants to disclose unless I have prove )

He agreed to IC for himself to figure out the whys. . (Has not even attempted )

He agreed to MC (we have been to two different ones the first was only two weeks after discovering and was a joke I was not prepared or in the right frame of mind and the counselor was not good for us we only saw her for 4 sessions, which is basically nothing, she was more into empowering to me for me to leave his ass which I feel I could use right now) ( the second we began early this year she was good we saw her for 6 sessions only we both felt we were getting somewhere but again we just began to touch the tip of the iceberg, my husband's job decided to close the business so he had to look for another job which was difficult since he had been with the company for 18 years and then our counsellor kindly informed us of her retirement so we decided more like my husband wanted to stop and said when he settled into his new job we would continue ) (4 months later still waiting or wasting my time )

He agreed to opening a Facebook that he created besides the other one he had,
He allowed me to have access on everything passwords etc he even allowed me to view this one but then changed the password said it wasn't something that would be any good for us ..he then agreed to give me full access and then conveniently said he couldn't remember the password, all along I knew I could do it myself but it was the point I felt strongly that this was important for him to give me on his own to show me his seriousness, I had already seen everything on it just wanted to delete everything and have control of it ,
Anyway I hadn't mentioned it in some time so yesterday I finally opened it myself one thing I can count on is his repetitiveness in the few different passwords he uses ,I did not let him know that I opened it on my own and just began to delete this shit, doing so just has brought me to that ugly dark side, this Facebook is one he created as ridiculously immature as it sounds he created it pretending to be another woman dating him stalking her for him ,because he wanted to end it with her ,to me he seems like he wanted her to end it with him because of it ,because he is retarded obviously in all aspects he knew how to have and live a complete double life but didn't know how to stop (really sounds like he wanted to keep her hanging still to me)
Anyway if you all saw this shit it's surreal and they both make me so sick, seriously he was thinking that she would give up because he was dating another woman but not because of the mear fact he was married and with me really people, )

So many more things he has agreed to. ...

sorry for the Ramblin, I brought it up to him again afterwards and he had the fkn audacity to say again after he agreed that he ,him of all people didn't think it would help us ,
First I said may I remind you that you have no say you lost that right and this wasn'ta request it was a demand as for everything you agreed upon. .
I said Thanks for all the Bullshit you've been feeding me all your fkn lies and bullshit ,thanks for wasting more of my time my life ,in between me saying this he kept saying I understand your growing inpatient but I am working on us, I am following through with everything I agreed to but one thing at a time, we both agreed once I am done reading we are going back to mc (reading jesus seriously I could have read 10 500 pg books already wtf)
I just can't believe his responses anymore or I should say his no response. ..
I said to him he is a lying broken record and I'm done listening to it ,I'm done even listening to myself also because I feel like a fkn broken record too.
I said when the house is paid for we need to go our separate ways. .
I was very calm during this entire conversation but yet was left feeling like I wasted my time, thoughts breath everything as I've been feeling everytime latley, I went in the other room quietly and a few minutes later here he comes as is becoming his usual self acting as if or should I say wishing like nothing just happened. .. he said to me come back to bed baby. ..
I'm feeling really twisted he's twisting me ..
It's not enough that he's left me feeling insane with all he was doing ..
He's making me feel like he's fkn with my mind still. .
I can't handle these fkn mind games anymore. ..

I had to let this out,this is the only place I can scream !!

Aumanny99 posted 9/18/2017 12:32 PM

It's not that they are cruel. The effect of their lying is very cruel. It's that they are selfish and believe that they are special and do not need to follow the rules. They believe they are so special they won't get caught and are going to protect you from their selfish actions. It's a special kind of pretzel logic rationalization that PROVES they are not a safe partner. You have a duty to yourself to protect yourself from a person capable of that kind of deception, both self deception and deception of their trusting partner.

The consequences could be dire. You could commit suicide, you could do harm to OW, you could expose kids, if you have them, to drama/divorce/domestic violence. Not to mention the PTSD that you will have for years and the effect on YOUR ability to move on and have another healthy trusting relationship.

These cheaters ONLY think about themselves and their NEEDS. They feel their needs and inner hurt is more than anyone else's and however they need to stop the pain is acceptable. So they put their affair on YOUR credit card then hid the bill when it comes. Not thinking, maybe one day you'll go to the mailbox and open the bill and see what they've been up to.

We all have intuition, too. I had a dream about my wife's affair that was so vivid I KNEW it was happening. It made me look at her phone that morning and sure enough, there were the texts from the AP right there under my nose under a false name "ABC Distributor". How creative huh?

Get away from him. Get safe. Know it's him not you. And heal yourself STAT!

kiki1 posted 9/18/2017 13:23 PM

Northeastern. Yes I told him. After finding this out he said "what does it matter?"

He honestly does not get that I have feelings. All about him. Smh. Narcissistic maybe?

(((((Deejay)))) I don't think your wh gets it either :( I can't stand secrets!

Aumanny. You are right. Thank you

Deejay523 posted 9/18/2017 19:06 PM

kiki1,
Hugs

Mickeymom posted 9/18/2017 23:14 PM

Malibu: how I do this personally, and to agree I way wish it was just a ons , but this is our reality it wasn't what we wanted we have been sucked into this terrible nightmare that is our lives. For me honestly I did have WS who dropped OW the minute I found out and there have been bumps but honestly I think he has given an A+ effort and has done anything I have requested so for me this has personally been the game changer in me healing. I can honestly say for the first year I was in shock year two my mind was a complete mess with crazy thoughts constantly I did feel all my emotions I did EMDR therapy. Tons of MC. And I felt all emotions so today almost 3 years I am in a good place I may be compartmentilzing a bit because I want to move forward. And for me Malibu I never thought I could be here but I do feel good and most of all I feel like me again the strong women I once was she is back. And I do believe in all of our strength we are still standing and that's a testament to who we are all you are my tribe and I wish you strength and peace.
Kiki: I wish strength finding out new truths is heartbreaking WS just don't get it and I am sorry I wish strength in your choices and you owe nobody an explanation this is your life.

[This message edited by Mickeymom at 11:17 PM, September 18th (Monday)]

kiki1 posted 9/19/2017 07:53 AM

Thanks mickeysmom.

The only way to not get any more bad news is to be done with it I guess.

I have a real estate agent coming Saturday to assess the house for the market so the first step is done.

My strength is greater now than when initially finding out but it's still sad.

steph posted 9/19/2017 21:01 PM

Deejay, so sorry. I've been through a lot of the same kind of run around wth my H.

Kiki, I don't think we've ever been in real R. We've had so many false Rs I can't count oh, and the gas lighting too.

I'm glad you're strong. I look back and should have moved forward 12 years ago like you're doing right now. Hugs to you.

northeasternarea posted 9/20/2017 13:44 PM

steph, hindsight is always 20/20.

mbb, you are stronger than you think you are.

amanda123 posted 9/20/2017 17:39 PM

Malibu, I think what makes me feel that we are moving forward is, I can see that he is doing everything that he is capable of doing to help me around the house with the girls and spending time with me. It is also the fact that he said he was sorry he was really sorry after my huge melt down. It took me screaming at him how do you think that made me feel several times, and a whole lot of other dialogue while he sat there and took it, I couldnt hold back the crying while i said it all and then vomiting afterwards. He could see how hurt angry and upset I was. He then got up angrily and once again denied some of the things I accused him of and slammed the front door on his way out. Later that night I thought he was going to ignore me again and do his non speaking thing but he actually hugged me and said he was sorry he was really sorry. Things mostly have gotten better, he seems to appreciate me more if im not dreaming. Im not getting too excited as I have seen glimpses of old A him. He still says and does things occasionally that make me angry with him and there have been a couple of things that have made me think he isnt there yet. He still does not tell me how he feels but the counselor said I need to engage him in more conversation and spend more one on one time with him. Im not hinging my bets on us staying together forever, its a wait and see thing. My dream of happy ever after was snuffed out by him. Now my focus is on trying to have a happy marriage and not thinking about the past so much. But I live in hope, no one can ever accuse me of not being hopeful.

I look at how he treats me now as opposed to how he treated me then. Yes I am stronger much stronger than I was. It doesnt mean I dont hurt, i just deal with it better. Im not sobbing and crying my eyes out all night like I use to.

Yes to everyone whose partners are conflict avoidant, perhaps its a personality trait that cheaters adopt when they start having As.

Like everyone has said one day at a time.

Hugs to everyone.

hopefull77 posted 9/20/2017 19:42 PM

Oh my gosh everyone HUGE hugs....
The problem with betrayal is it just doesn't really go away...and so when all the other crap in life comes up what once was " we can handle this" feels totally different....look I feel as safe as I can with my H...I know that there are things about him I will never truly know and I've known him for almost 46 years and being blindsided has taken its toll on me...now most days I feel stronger and better than ever...like I have learned to speak up for myself especially at work...I don't always have to be the peace maker or try to keep everyone calm! Heck if people are mad say it! Don't stuff it! Ive learned that...I realize that surviving infidelity is tiring and it is something I will most likely do the rest of my life! I will survive with a H who loves me and is very remorseful BUT and there is a but I will never look at him quite the same ....and I know as I tell my kids who are all grown ups..."Never say Never"
Peace everyone ....honest to goodness PEACE

MalibuBayBreeze posted 9/21/2017 08:19 AM

Mickeymom
To my knowledge and from what I see and feel, WH ended it with MOW when I identified her. Whether he ended it to protect her OR because he realized the jig was finally up and he was about to lose his marriage and family I'll never know.

He took his pass code off his phone and I check it periodically. But I'm not stupid, just because I see nothing doesn't mean things can't be deleted or hidden. But the fact that the phone is no longer glued to him is a positive sign. I've regularly checked his odometer and there has not been any spike that would indicate a drive upstate. That doesn't mean she wouldn't be driving down here though. He now comes home after his route is done which he wasn't doing during the A. I call his credit card to listen to purchases made. I look at bank statements for any odd purchases on the debit card. He calls and texts me more and answers when I contact him. But after being so good at being so deceitful for so long how do I know what is real anymore?

This A was conducted during the day. When I was suspicious those I was confiding in would always ask the same two questions. Is he home at night and does he come home after work? The answer was always yes but I knew that if a man wants to cheat he will make and find the time and mine did. His job allows him to take earned comp time off so he was putting in requests for a day off with pay and would go see her. All the while I would think he was working 10 minutes away. So he was literally getting paid to fuck her. Who's better than him?

Amanda,
I can't move forward because he has left me on my own to recover from this. We haven't talked about the A in quite a while. I have major meltdowns and will spew all kinds of angry venomous things while storming around the house. I'll make my snide comments here and there. But sit down and talk, really talk, nope. Makes me feel like his still covering his own ass and still protecting her. I have tried through a couple of people to find out information about her husband but no one can seem to find out anything. I at least want to know what he does for a living and where he works. I mean how was she able to be in contact with my husband throughout the day and late night hours? How was she able to have him drive upstate to her in the predawn hours? Where the hell was her husband????

Being kept in the dark has only further damaged me and my narcissistic WH seems unbothered most of the time. If I have a trigger he sees it and will typically be nicer to me, will sit with me but that's pretty much it.

I would be so much further along if he would be man enough to step up to the plate. If he were working his ass off to make it up to me and make me feel safe from here on out. I am not living, I am existing and it is so unfair.

My 15th wedding anniversary is on Wednesday. I'm dreading it. How could one of the happiest days of my life turn into one of the saddest? How could he do this to me?

northeasternarea posted 9/21/2017 09:57 AM

MBB, if your husband is truly a narcissist, he doesn't have the capacity to give you what you need/want. The most important person will always be him. The only person that you can control is you. You can't make him do anything. You healing is up to you, not him. Only you can decide whether life is better with him, or without him.

UKgirl posted 9/21/2017 11:26 AM

Malibu

My question ladies is this. How do you do it? How do you ever get to the point of accepting the worst has happened and begin to live again?
You find a place for it. But you won’t while you are with someone who isn’t an open book. If this is the case, then you have to either live with it – or live without him. This is also your second year. It’s pretty common for the second year to be worse in some ways than the first. The second is the anniversaries of everything in the first year and you realise that things won’t change, that there is no going back and changing things and, usually, things begin to slide with the fWS settling back into their old ways of treating you and acting as if the affair never happened. That you should be “over” it – when the truth is you will never really be over it. Like a deep scar, it will become part of you and every now and then, when you touch it or it itches you, you will remember how that scar came to be there. Mickeymom backs this year 2 theory.
I can honestly say for the first year I was in shock year two my mind was a complete mess with crazy thoughts constantly I did feel all my emotions I did EMDR therapy. Tons of MC. And I felt all emotions so today almost 3 years I am in a good place I may be compartmentilzing a bit because I want to move forward.
In year 2, I was almost suicidal. Going crazy with things not being better. Wondering WHY I couldn’t get over it and just put it behind us and mooooove on (all those clichés!) But I found out that I was normal in my thinking and emotions. I suspect you are too.

Whether he ended it to protect her OR because he realized the jig was finally up and he was about to lose his marriage and family I'll never know.
The same here. No, you won’t ever know. Mr UKg confessed rather than have MOW tell me – He wanted to control the fallout and spin his own story first and hope to keep her out of the picture completely. He didn't want to lose everything, but he kept MOW dangling just in case it didn't work out in the way he wanted. being with her would be better than being alone.

But sit down and talk, really talk, nope. Makes me feel like his still covering his own ass and still protecting her. ……… I have tried through a couple of people to find out information about her husband but no one can seem to find out anything. I at least want to know what he does for a living and where he works.
He is covering his own ass – and he is protecting her. This shouldn’t be about him or her. It should be about YOU. If you need to know something, he should tell you. And if you really want to know, I reckon a PI should be about to find out as long as you know the basics about her.

How could he do this to you? He’s a selfish prick, that’s how. He’s only concerned with what he wants and with keeping all the cards so you don’t know the truth of it all. He could do this because he isn’t that concerned with your feelings, so yes, a definite candidate for a severe case of NPD.


kiki1

I'm having a hard time processing that he could be so cruel and I don't know why.
As Aumanny states, it’s not that they are deliberately cruel, it’s the effect of lying that feels like cruelty to us. And they lie to protect themselves. What usually happens when an affair is outed, the WS goes into "lying to protect" mode. If it’s a kis-kiss, then nothing happened, well – maybe a kiss on the cheek. If it’s a ONS, then it was a clumsy drunken fumble and when they realised what they were doing, they stopped (yeh, right). If it’s a STA, then it was “only” days and “only” a couple of times sex. If an LTA, then 20yrs becomes 10. And sex only started after X number of years. And of course they weren’t in the affair all the time, they had the decency to take breaks. Whatever the affair was – they minimise and lie to make it somehow more acceptable in their own warped brains and then they think it sounds more acceptable when they spout forth to us. It wasn't that bad.....

Yes I told him. After finding this out he said "what does it matter?"
To him, it doesn’t matter. It’s all dealt with in HIS head and he thinks it should be in yours too. This is typical WS thinking. And so yes, it’s not unusual for that one last lie to become the straw that breaks the camel’s back. In the end, a point is reached when you either say “enough, I’m outta here” or you say “you’re lying, but I don’t care anymore to do anything about it” And it doesn’t matter which way you choose to go, you’ve checked out.

Deejay

I did not let him know that I opened it on my own and just began to delete this shit, doing so just has brought me to that ugly dark side
Just delete it all. If you feel the need to keep it as some sort of insurance, then change the password and make the profile invisible to all but you. And when you’ve done that, don’t keep going back to it. Like any insurance policy, check it once a year to make sure it’s still in place.

He's making me feel like he's fkn with my mind still.
Don’t let him do this. The mind fucks are the worst things to let the WS do. Put a wall up and keep him out. Don’t let things play on your mind. These are HIS problems. Mr UKg lied (mostly by omission or minimising) for two years and it was only after I met MOW’s BH that I gave up getting The Truth. I realised I was never going to get it anyway; I wasn’t there. The only people who really know The Truth are WH and MOW. The BH found out quite a bit because MOW was stupid enough to keep everything on her computer (yep, 2yrs after d-day) and BH went though it all after I wrote to him to out her. So my mantra to fWH became “if you’re lying to me then you are only lying to yourself cause I don’t believe you anyway” and I just shrugged. He knew I simply didn’t care anymore – and that was like a knife in his back.

I will survive with a H who loves me and is very remorseful BUT and there is a but I will never look at him quite the same ....and I know as I tell my kids who are all grown ups..."Never say Never"

Same here, hopefull.

Work towards a peaceful weekend everyone.

amanda123 posted 9/21/2017 15:13 PM

Malibu,
Are you certain there is a H? If you are then perhaps he travels for work, or perhaps he works away on an oil rig or something similar. Ukgirl's suggestion of a PI might help solve that issue.

There needs to be communication between the both of you and I mean not just him ranting about his job and you listening to all the trials he had to put up with. This was my H, he could talk all day long about his job but nothing absolutely nothing about us or his feelings or thoughts, infact i could tell you all about his work and colleagues myself I heard it that many times. My H had to learn to communicate again with me. I nearly fell off the chair one day when he actually asked how my day was!! I had to pick my moments when I wanted to know something about the A. To be honest when it came to asking my H there was never really a good time. I could/can tell by the sighs and sometimes by the scowl on his face that he's not happy but he will either tell me or say he doesnt remember or deny. He asked me how long I was going to keep asking him questions, I told him he doesnt get to ask me that I am the one who decides that, when I feel I have the right information and its the truth I may stop asking that question.

I hope your Anniversary is going to be better than mine was at the start of the year. How could he do that to you? I think everyone of us has asked that question about our WSs and we are still wondering. Trying to understand the motives behind their actions is really mind boggling. Surely not everyone of them is a narcissist. I believe selfish, getting away with things because they can, and feeling superior, and totally discounting the fact that we have any feelings or how this will affect us in the event they get caught, the high that they are on whilst in the A makes them feel like they can do anything. They think they will never get caught.

Yes I agree he needs to step up to the plate. I think you are going to have lay it out for him and tell him what you want.

It is unfair, it is an injustice, it is heartbreaking, it is cruel and it is just about one of the worst time of our lives.

I hope that your H can do what he needs to do to help your relationship start to get back on track.

Hugs

hopefull77 posted 9/21/2017 21:18 PM

Always good to hear from you UKGIRL...I appreciate your wisdom!
this thread makes me feel less lonely ...its not really a " misery loves company" kind of thing it's more like an understanding....kinda like a " a new mom group"
we all GET IT...
I feel blessed to be in such FINE company....
One never knows where life takes us...thanks for riding along
peace

MalibuBayBreeze posted 9/21/2017 22:36 PM

The second is the anniversaries of everything in the first year and you realise that things won’t change, that there is no going back and changing things and, usually, things begin to slide with the fWS settling back into their old ways of treating you and acting as if the affair never happened. That you should be “over” it – when the truth is you will never really be over it.

This is exactly what's happening, and it is exasperating how I'm feeling. I'm being eaten alive by this and he has gone on as if nothing has happened and it's freaking me out. That he can be so nonchalant about something that for me is so profound is deeply unsettling. My cage is rattled big time.
In year 2, I was almost suicidal. Going crazy with things not being better. Wondering WHY I couldn’t get over it and just put it behind us and mooooove on (all those clichés!) But I found out that I was normal in my thinking and emotions. I suspect you are too.

I am. Not suicidal but definitely having some down days and increased anxiety. I was asking myself today why it is that some here seem to have the ability to get their shit together after six months, some even less, and I'm here floundering. There must be something wrong with me. I'm lacking a backbone. I never have found my bitch boots. Reading this helps me by knowing what I'm feeling is normal.

Deejay523 posted 9/22/2017 10:25 AM

(((Steph)))

(((Mickeymom )))

And I do believe in all of our strength we are still standing and that's a testament to who we are all you are my tribe and I wish you strength and peace.

Love, A Tribe to feel proud of fo sure! !

(((UKgirl)))

You find a place for it. But you won’t while you are with someone who isn’t an open book

This is where I am at,where I am relating too,my h is just beginning to open up. .without this imo it's worthless. .

If an LTA, then 20yrs becomes 10. And sex only started after X number of years. And of course they weren’t in the affair all the time, they had the decency to take breaks. Whatever the affair was – they minimise and lie to make it somehow more acceptable in their own warped brains and then they think it sounds more acceptable when they spout forth to us. It wasn't that bad.....

This is so what my H was doing,especially the taking breaks part,my h had the decency to tell me numerous times every time I would say our whole lives together he would say it wasn't our whole lives and would throw in the years he was faithful to me. ..UGHH! !!


Just delete it all. If you feel the need to keep it as some sort of insurance, then change the password and make the profile invisible to all but you. And when you’ve done that, don’t keep going back to it. Like any insurance policy, check it once a year to make sure it’s still in place.

That is what I was doing and then I clumsily screwed up in the middle of deleting I thought to change the email so he couldn't open it while I was in it just until I was done wherever the hell I went in my head anyway because it was so soon it had been closed for a few years it was too soon to make a change like that it let me get as far as the password and then started saying I needed to do a security check which he had set up so now I have to provide a copy of a license or something with name proof long story short neither one of us or anybody I know is Jill Gifford because that was the made up lovers name he created. .sigh, if anyone knows how to get around this would appreciate the help if not is what it is.


Don’t let him do this. The mind fucks are the worst things to let the WS do. Put a wall up and keep him out. Don’t let things play on your mind. These are HIS problems.

It's more frustration that I feel when it seems he is trying to, and it's definitely more like avoidance, fear driven ,I do speak up it's tiresome so tiresome. .

THANKS UKGIRL,
Always good to hear from you, peace! !

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