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Long Term Affairs Part 38

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gmc94 posted 10/21/2018 22:26 PM

Hope&Healing -
initially it was my decision - made when he was in a coma. Weird as it sounds, I felt it was his experience to share - or not. When I had to call his siblings and 2 closest friends (bc didn't know if he'd live), I told them about the suicide and the A. So basically, I told his "support system" that he should have told about the A months before (and I'd asked him repeatedly to talk to someone other than me and IC - he always refused....)
We talked about it after WH was released from hospital, and I've said that it's up to him and I will support that.
To be honest, there are also other considerations. Particularly his job (folks don't tend to hire for his kind of work if they've got "mental health" issues... and there would also be issues with his colleagues and management), and our community (we have been VERY active in our local stuff for >20 years, and I think some would look at him/us -and our public service - differently, tho I'm pretty sure some word has gotten out just by the police/fire folks talking among themselves, friends/family, local reports to our city council, etc).
If he decided to go public, I currently have a decent public platform that I would be happy to use/share to address mental health, suicide awareness, public stigma/shame, etc., but I would not discuss the A - THAT one is mine to decide (and if he told others [exception for medical/mental health professionals] w/o my consent I would be very angry).

It hurts a lot that I now keep TWO huge secrets he created - my IC makes fun of me for being too honest (which I always thought was a good thing!), so for me it's hard - just today we visited friends who asked a lot of questions and I HATE that I am lying to someone I am pretty close to.. I do not like either of these "burdens", and combined they are very hard to cope with. I've talked to IC about it.

But - the biggest reason for me is that if the tables were turned, I would expect him to honor my wishes WRT more public disclosure. I dunno if that's empathy or codependence or just plain silly, but its where I am now.
I suppose that could change as the trauma processes. The flashbacks -finding him, cutting him down, seeing him dead, and police telling me "he's dead"- have returned with a pretty bad vengeance, so there's more EMDR in store on that front. I don't think disclosure would change that aspect of the PTSD - and I could see disclosure making it worse. So, I just keep trying to work on me.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 10:28 PM, October 21st, 2018 (Sunday)]

hopeandhealing posted 10/22/2018 01:02 AM

gmc,
I can certainly appreciate your position and am glad you and he both have some people in the know on both the suicide attempts and the A who can support you both. I had forgotten you disclosed to his family, sorry about my memory lapse.

I certainly understand the myriad of considerations one has to factor in and the fall out thereof. Despite the increased awareness and acceptance of mental health conditions, unfortunately, a stigma still exists and people are judged, though not necessarily acknowledged as such.

I agree, the A is yours to disclose with whom, when, if you choose. My WH shared it with two of his close friends and brother and I made him tell his parents, as I couldn't stand the pedestal they always had him on, being such a great husband. In my emotional reactivity, I told a few friends who I now wish I had not since we are working on R and they refuse to be around him. Not particularly supportive of my decisions after all, but they were ready to help me throw his crap on the lawn! Oh well, hindsight is 20/20. That being said, I agree with you, if you disclose to more people, it puts you in the thick of the trauma again and you can't truly predict people's responses. I would not have guessed I would lose two friends as a result of his infidelity and my choice to stay. Nobody but you can decide what is best for you.

I do feel very badly for the predicament you are in with the lying. I like you am honest to a fault. My therapist says the same thing about me, which is why the As were such a mindf**k. I can't lie about something of no meaning, so no way I could ever lie about something so significant and hurtful. Thus, my capacity to understand how he could and not be the devil reincarnated was severely limited. One of my friends (identified above) had a Christmas party last year, something we have attended annually as a family for 15 years. My WH was not welcome in her home. My kids (who have no idea of the As) wanted to go of course, so my WH told them he had to go into work. Everyone at the party asked where he was and I had to say he wasn't able to make it (trying to leave it vague, thereby making me feel as though I was being less dishonest) which of course resulted in more questions. I hated the feeling of being dishonest, so I imagine as Christmas rolls around again this year, I too will be busy this year to avoid it all. Another loss for us BS, r/s where we are judged for staying.

EMDR can be a very powerful and useful tool for PTSD, I am glad you are having success with it.

You have endured so much and your resilience has been tested beyond what anyone should face. I truly wish you continued healing gmc, you deserve a good, happy life and I hope you can find it. ((()))

[This message edited by hopeandhealing at 1:24 AM, October 22nd (Monday)]

northeasternarea posted 10/22/2018 07:42 AM

Hopeandhealing, I am sorry that your friend isn’t a true friend. When I disclosed to my closest friends, it felt like a weight was lifted.

Svon posted 10/22/2018 09:51 AM

Hopeandhelaing,

My.best friend of 15 years will no longer speak to me because I am with a man she “will never respect again”. It’s mind blowing to learn that a “friend” can not be friend during the hardest thing you will hopefully ever journey through. The way I see it now, is she was never really a friend. Anyone can laugh and be there for the fun. A true friend is there through it all. It saddened me, but I feel she betrayed me as well. We tend to place infidelity as the ultimate betrayal in our society. Probably because it hurts so damn badly. I guess there are levels of betrayal for sure, but my friend has betrayed me too. Sadly, what she doesn’t get is that I would reconcile with her too, but she seems to have no desire. I am sorry your friend is betraying you as well. That is what she is doing. If you can forgive it at least try to forgive your husband a true friend would be there for support. I told a lot of people. I wish I had not. No one but my best friend had anything negative to say about my choice to stay except the one I needed the most. My mom, who I expected would want to kill my husband resounded with “I will support whatever you decide, but in my heart I believe your husband is a good yet troubled man and I hope you two find a way to grow old together. It is might be easier to get over what he did than it will be to get over a lifetime without him” Thinking of my friend reminds me that we are all capable of some sort of betrayal and hurt. My husband just takes gold in the Olympics of betrayal.

hopeandhealing posted 10/22/2018 21:30 PM

Thanks for your thoughts, I agree with you both Svon and northeasternarea. I am glad you felt the weight lifted northeastern and sorry you lost your best friend Svon. I can so relate. It has completely made me reevaluate and again I find myself concluding, this is not about me. Something in them does not allow them to support me/find acceptance etc. I can't own their choices, but I do sadly have to live with them. I have put a lot of effort into trying to mend those relationships and frankly, I am done trying.

My best friend has been my rock. She said as your mom did Svon, that she would support whatever my decision was and if my heart allowed him back, then he would be welcome in her home and her life and she has been true to her word (she also said "and if you want to throw his shit on the lawn, I'm with you for that too" . I am so very grateful. Her acceptance of him allowed me to get glimmers of my old "normal" back, when I felt surreal watching my life in the early days. Your mom sounds like an insightful lady.

Interestingly, there were close friends to whom I did not disclose, but with the sudden weight loss after dday (lost about 15lbs in a few weeks), became concerned and asked if I was ok. I said I was working my way through some "Stuff" and that I was supported and appreciated their concern. One friend in particular didn't know what to do with that choice to not share what was troublesome and took it personally that I didn't confide in her, as if she wasn't important enough for me to share. The reality is that our Hs are friends and if I told her, she would tell him and he would tell two friends, and they would tell two friends and so on and so on and so on....like that old Faberge Organics shampoo ad from the 80s (maybe I am dating myself...think Heather Locklear was in it). Anyway, I digress, sadly, our friendship has never been the same. She has acknowledged she only knows how to be "all in" and when I didn't share with her, she didn't know what to do so had to distance herself.

This is the fall out and loss beyond the betrayal of infidelity. Damned if you tell, damned if you don't! And so we carry on, one foot in front of the other. ((()))

[This message edited by hopeandhealing at 9:37 PM, October 22nd (Monday)]

gmc94 posted 10/23/2018 01:14 AM

I told my family (one sibling at first, then the whole damned tribe on a vacation - lots of drama I should have been better prepared for). Remarkably, tho many are -understandably - PO'd at him, they have all been very supportive. of both me and WH (to the extent WH would accept any support). WH has been part of my family for 25 yrs - and they see him as family too, which I appreciate (unlike WH's family, who were helpful while he was in hospital, but none of them has said one fucking word to me or asked me how I'm doing with the PTSD or any other part of the shitshow that WH has created - so, I guess that "family" doesn't go quite as far for them as it does in my tribe).
Some in my family have self-blame issues after the suicide - which is another clusterf*ck my WH has managed to cause. One sibling has done a lot of good work on herself & boundaries, and will let me know when she's not up to being around WH - I'm so grateful for her and all she is.

Told two old friends, neither of whom live in my city. One is adamant that I D; the other just can't seem to see how any R is possible (and I have plenty of days when I'm right there with her). Both are as supportive as they can be (when WH hung himself, I called one of them at 1am -she was on a plane here by 6am). I do worry that at some point they may distance - time will tell.
The stories here kind of confirm my gut feeling to keep the A close to the vest here in my hometown. One couple I told after suicide has been friends with WH for >35 yrs. It's weird, we used to see each other alot, but for the past decade or so, not so much (maybe once every 1-2 years), but they are the kind of friends that even if we don't see them or have as much in common today, I know they love us and we love them. The H said WH probably didn't tell him bc of some judgmental stuff he's said about infidelity.... I don't know if his opinions have changed or not. The W was very upset about it all - she's been very supportive of me, and tho we were never besties, I'm working up the energy to take her to lunch.

I'm so sorry to all of you who had friends/besties hit the road - that is really f'd up.... this gig is already about as lonely as can be, and I think a bestie walking bc I didn't immediately D would feel like yet another betrayal - at the worst possible time. Hugs to all going through that (and HUGE hugs to those with double betrayal... I think I'd need multiple weekly IC sessions just to keep me from punching my WH).

H&H - same thing with trying to be vague. I initially told people I didn't know what exactly happened (true - I have no frigging clue how he went from calm, to walking in our yard, to dead in about 15 minutes). But now that he's home and recovering quite well, folks ask a lot of questions, so being vague just not working anymore.

And yes, putting BS in a position to lie just to maintain some semblance of dignity is another clusterf*ck that WS just don't understand.... Affairs, the fucked up gift that keeps on giving.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 1:21 AM, October 23rd (Tuesday)]

hopeandhealing posted 10/23/2018 09:31 AM

gmc,
The day I learned of his final A, I lost my nut. I had just attended a dr appt for STI and said "Is there anymore I don't know" and he replied, "there was one more". I told him we were done and called his parents to tell him them we would be over after work. I was clearly not my best self and they were alarmed that somebody had a dire concern. I told them we were all healthy, but needed to talk to them and would be by after work. How I went to work that day, I will never know. H attended an IC appt that afternoon and then we met at his parents' house and I made him tell them what he had done, all of it. His parents were of course devastated, but supportive of us both.

I too have been in their family for 28 years. The thing is, they put WH on a pedestal, so this knocked him off in a big way. They are also rug sweepers and I didn't hear anything from my MIL after the disclosure. My H called her and said "you need to reach out and support Hope through this, she doesn't have the energy to ask for help and she needs it. Please be there for her", so she called. Like your WH family though, I think though they might want to be there, it is their family member who has created this mess, caused such pain and it is easier for them to ignore it than acknowledge, "yup, you raised a lying serial cheater". Nobody wants to see their children in that light and so she would call and try to be supportive to me and follow it up with "I disagree with what he has done, but I love him, he has been a good son to us, so I am here to support you both". Then crickets for months until WH would encourage his mom to reach out again. It is what it is I guess. Some people just don't have the capacity or skills to manage the burden, loss and interruption to their lives and perception of what they had.

[This message edited by hopeandhealing at 9:33 AM, October 23rd (Tuesday)]

Svon posted 10/23/2018 10:11 AM

GMC, I am sorry your two friends have expressed any sort of opinion at all. They shouldn’t. No one, outside of my no longer best friend has done that to me. Everyone has simply said we are here to support you anyway we can. They just want me to be happy again. I do find myself explaining to them
Why I have stayed even though I shouldn’t feel the need to and they don’t ask. Basically, there is no benefit in me leaving. The pain would not go away. Other than his second life, he treated me wonderfully. We have a great home and lifestyle and a family that enjoys being together. To leave him would be giving it all up. For what? I fail to see the benefit. This is how I explain to my friends. Some get it and say they would probably do the same while others just listen and tell me how strong I am. I have no desire to date or find another. I have never believed in “soulmates”. And even now, when I think of growing old or getting sick, I would want him. He has always been there for me. Another dear friend that has been my life saver captioned me from day one to take my time and not make any quick decisions. Her husband had an affair early in their marraige. I don’t know how long it went on, but he had taken their very young kids to meet “daddy’s friend”. She forgave him for it. 10 years later he had another affair. By the time she found out he had been paying AP’s rent for months and packed his bags and walked out. She says even then, if he had been willing, she would have tried to reconcile. Now, 16 years later her husband is on to another woman who she actually likes yet admits that she wishes that she could enjoy her family “whole” again and that it wokld be nice to have the grandfather of her precious grand babies by her side. She is not “wanting” him so to speak, but misses the family unit. She hates sharing family time and grandkids with another woman. I suspect I would feel the same. Marriages are more than a love story. They are a partnership. My husband, in most ways is a good partner.

I wish I hadn’t told so many people and oddly we have friends that I wish I could tell. It’s not to shame him. Its out of protection as I fear they would never look at him the same (how could they) and I would lose yet more of my life and friendships. It’s just uncomfortable being close to people yet you are harboring a huge secret. In his defense, he has encouraged me to tell anyone and everyone I feel I need to. He owns it all. He has sent a thank you to my friend who has supported me through it all. He has apologized and thanked my mom for her help. He took my daughter’s longterm boyfriend who is like family to dinner one on one and apologized to him and acknowledged that his shit Will irreparably negatively affect our daughter and her relationships. The man is doing all
He can to be.a better person. My real
Friends see that. The judgementals can go to hell as far as I am concerned.

That being said, for months I thought that life is full of lessons, but this is so unfair and I have learned nothing. I am beginning to see that I have learned. I am no longer a judgmental person. I know I used to be. Would I have written off a man who did what my husband did and shook my head at the poor pathetic woman who stayed? Sadly, I probably would have. So that is my lesson. People all have different needs and desires and we need to support each other rather than judge our differences. Oh, and forgiveness.... it’s a work in progress for me, but I have never been good at it.

hopeandhealing posted 10/23/2018 13:21 PM

Wow Svon, I completely echo your words. My WH didn't treat me poorly, was always considerate, was a great dad etc etc, minus of course his massive failings pursuing NSA sex. He sent my friend and I out to a concert to thank her for supporting me and in a month, she and I will travel to Costa Rica together for a girls trip. He has owned it all and continues to acknowledge my pain, meeting it with empathy and not defensiveness.

I am under no illusion that the grass is greener somewhere else, aside from his betrayal and lies (I get those are not small things), I would pick him again. At the end of the day, I like my life too much the way it is, I don't want to lose my family unit and share weddings, births of grandchildren etc with others and unlike your friend's WH, neither does he. I had a friend say something similar to me after her H betrayed her and eventually they divorced. She said despite all he had put her through, if he had been wiling to try, that would have been her preference...and she is happily involved with someone else now and has been for years, but the loss of the family unit will always be there. No easy answers and everyone's story is different. Nobody can judge and if they do, allow it to fall off and wish them well on their journey. ((()))

Bestthing posted 10/24/2018 06:32 AM

Svon,
What you wrote really helped me today. I was in a slump all night after reading a JFO that sounds like my husband on steroids. Everyone who posted advised her to pack up her children and leave. A few months ago, I would have, too. Then I started judging myself! Why am I staying? My marriage has been a sham from the get go. Maybe I am blinded by codependence? He let the APs go so gently and romantically...on and on in my head.

Like our friends, I was judging me! Well, I am staying because WE have built a comfortable life with 2 beautiful boys. This is the time when we can enjoy ourselves as a couple. He has been good to me (mostly) and we care enough about each other to do whatever it takes to get over this hurdle. So I am staying not because I am weak. I am staying because this is the best course for me today.

Thank you for the reminder, ladies.

Svon posted 10/24/2018 09:28 AM

Best thing, that is one of the things I hate about this site. I have found other forums that are more supportive. This site should be about helping each other find our peace and healing. We all need different things in life. I wouldn’t even judge a woman who wants to stay with a unremorsefiul cheater. I would just encourage and support her to ask her joy in life. Who am I to decide what that is? You do you and hold your head high! Hugs and smiles to us all!

amanda123 posted 10/24/2018 14:20 PM

I do believe you have to be selective in who you reveal this to. My two older girls know but my youngest doesnt know as she is too young being 11 years old. I cannot and would not tell my mother or sister. We are close however they would NEVER forgive my H. I know my mother would be pushing for me to leave him. I dont need the added stress of that, so they will never know. I have 2 very supportive friends that I have told. The first has known for a while the second I told not that long ago.

I am so grateful that this site exists, I have posted almost a thousand times now. So it is a good way to get things off your chest and get good advice.

Svon posted 10/24/2018 15:00 PM

Amanda, I am sorry you can’t confide in your mom. That Would be hard. My mom still loves my husband and hopes we make it but has also offerered to “help me bury the body” if I needed😂😂

gmc94 posted 10/24/2018 15:45 PM

I wish I hadn’t told so many people and oddly we have friends that I wish I could tell. It’s not to shame him. Its out of protection as I fear they would never look at him the same (how could they) and I would lose yet more of my life and friendships. It’s just uncomfortable being close to people yet you are harboring a huge secret.

nailed it.
H&H - good for you to tell WH's family off the bat - I really wish I'd done that. I think it could have helped avoid the suicide, provided a semblance of support for him outside me and our IC/MC. But - I didn't. I only encouraged him. This is one of my regrets post dday- that I didn't just tell who I thought should know. sigh.

Update on WH family front - he called one of his brothers last night and he's going through his THIRD divorce. This brother has been kind of a jerk to me (and was completely inappropriate while WH was in hospital, at one point a pysch is asking WH questions & the brother told ME that we should leave - I said I'm staying, you do what you like). I told WH last night that I resent his family not giving a damn about me, while my family is sending WH get well cards, despite all the harm and pain he's caused me and them. WH always gave me grief for spending so much time with my family and not with his - well, maybe now he can recognize what I've known all along... they don't treat me like "family", but just an extension of him, while my family sees him as part of the whole family.

Would I have written off a man who did what my husband did and shook my head at the poor pathetic woman who stayed? Sadly, I probably would have. So that is my lesson. People all have different needs and desires and we need to support each other rather than judge our differences. Oh, and forgiveness.... it’s a work in progress for me, but I have never been good at it.

Yes, Svon. I can't believe that I'm still here... really can not believe it. And I'm pretty sure I've judged others who have stayed with their WS.
Forgiveness? I too struggle with that - and this is a doozy. I've always tried to forgive (or "put up" with) what I can, but once I've hit my limit I'm out (I once went years not speaking to a sibling who stole film from my purse after I told her it was my last roll and she couldn't have it while on a trip MILES from a store with film). The LTA is way beyond that. We shall see if my own work can change that. I agree that anger/resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other guy to die, but damn! it's really hard to even envision forgiveness - I could see the possibility months ago, but I think the suicide set me back pretty far.

My WH was always a good husband (so I thought), but if I had a time machine to go back 25 years and do it again, I would not pick him. A major part of that is he lied about AP from day1 - didn't reveal her when we shared (what I thought were) ALL past lovers, and didn't reveal he'd met with her when we lived together, so I feel very manipulated and that I was not allowed to be truly informed when I consented to the marriage. Which is so odd in that if he'd told me of her existence and of their relationship, I would have been completely fine with it, as I was with his relationships with all other former lovers. But if I knew that he'd lied about that, I really don't think I could have gone thru with the M... those lies coupled with the BJ from a prostitute after engagement were a combo I could not have forgiven... one or the other, but never both (and I did forgive the BJ- it was hard for me, but I was young and foolish and took it as something that I had to deal with, so I got some IC, but never insisted that he get help - in retrospect, I don't see why my IC didn't tell me that it was imperative that he seek counseling too... unfortunately, this was before the Internet, so resources like SI just weren't available. So I came to terms with it, accepted it, loved him, forgave him, married him, and never threw it in his face).
He was always big on romance, cooks/cleans, was good with DD (not so much with DS), and has been my very best friend for 28 years (more than 1/2 of my entire life). I didn't like the drinking, distance, or emotional unavailability, but made peace with that (ironically, in the months immediately after the start of the sexual phase of the LTA). Yes, I like my life and it's comforts, and I hate the idea of breaking up my family... but those considerations, for me, are not enough to stay in a M where I'm not the person I want to be WRT my spouse. It's a cluster. I never wanted to be a wife that snooped (or even considered snooping) or was jealous. But the depth of this betrayal put me exactly there... a place I NEVER wanted to be (which has always been clearly communicated to WH... he knew this about me from day1, and f*cked someone else anyhow). From what I feel in my gut and what I read here on SI, complete trust doesn't ever really return, no matter how hard everyone works and changes. Ultimately (and assuming WH can do the work on his side of the street), I guess it may just come down to that... how much trust can ever be restored with WH (right now, it's less than it was on dday) and whether I decide I'd rather resign myself to remain married and have wife/partner qualities I never wanted in response to lack of trust, or resign myself to living alone the rest of my life, as I don't think it would be possible to ever have complete trust with anyone. Frack - another thing on the forgiveness list - that I will NEVER trust anyone the way I did with my WH before dday. More innocence lost forever. Good grief- it pisses me of SO bad, and I feel jealous/envy those who still have that.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:58 PM, October 24th, 2018 (Wednesday)]

Svon posted 10/24/2018 21:40 PM

GMC, I am sorry you are still suffering so intensely with your choice. It is so hard. I think our souses are similar. They both have some mental health problems. Looking at it from that stand point is the only way I fathom reconciling with my husband. We can’t fairly judge their bad choices with our healthy minds. That’s the way I tend to see it. Don’t get me wrong, I am still hurt and mad as hell at my husband, but not enough to throw everything else away that I love in my life. And honestly, I have never thought of cheating as the ultimate deal breaker. If he does it again, it will be! But, Ij my my opinion, anisive, controlling, lazy, alcoholic, bad parenting skills, etc.. would be something I could not have put up with and stayed married. His affair was unknown to me and his problem. Would I marry him again knowing what he would do? No, I would not, but who knows what problems another Man I wound up with would have brought to the marriage. As hard as it is at times, I am choosing to judge him in all that he was and is rather than one horrible thing he did for a long time.

Svon posted 10/24/2018 21:43 PM

Sorry about the typos, I am on my phone without my old lady glasses and can’t figure out how to edit!

gmc94 posted 10/25/2018 01:24 AM

Svon -
I may have been able to take your perspective if I hadn't been asking (sometimes begging) my WH to get IC and MC for years before and after the A went PA. I just cannot grasp refusing MC or IC when f*cking someone else, and blaming all of his sh*tty moods on being tired or work stress. I suppose I can tell myself this is just a symptom of the mental illness, but if I'm really honest, if that's really the case, I don't want to be married to someone whose mental illness allows him to make such damaging choices. It's just too damned toxic to me. So far - even with the suicide - his only dx is depression. Millions of folks suffer from depression and don't cheat.

In the 6-7 years between his mother's death (EA in full bloom) and when I got a job that required travel out of town (about 5 years after full PA), there were many days he'd just be a total jack*ass and always said it was fatigue or work stress. I went a long time trying to find some pattern, and never could figure it out. I do remember many times having to tell the kids to tread gently bc he was in a mood. I remember all the drinking - and BEGGING him to cut down. I remember DD calling me after I got the new job and expressing her fears and frustrations bc he was drunk so much (and I feel awful that I didn't just quit and come home - would not have changed his LTA, but I would have changed how I view myself as her mom).
I now realize that those moods - which began in full EA mode and a few years before sexual PA started - likely arose out of communication or sex with POSOW - part of his internal rewriting of the M in order to justify or rationalize his lying to me and deserving to have an A. I suspect the longer periods were the time between making the "date" for when she'd be in town and the actual sex- which could be weeks. The shorter periods were probably phone calls or other communication. I'm sure some of those times really were being tired or work stuff bc we'd regularly talk about what was going on at work (which is why his "work stress" excuse often rang like bullsh*t, yet I NEVER suspected an A - NEVER).

2 weeks before their 1st sex (when he'd decided to do it, had contacted her and made their "date" for dinner while he was at the conference), we went on a camping trip with a bunch of other couples. We sang Beatles songs around the campfire with a teenager who played excellent guitar (won all kinds of statewide awards, etc). It was a beautiful place, with some really cool people and I was so grateful to have been invited. WH was a total and complete a**hole - and not just to me. We ended up having an argument (that everyone else could hear bc we were in tents). I knew he'd been drinking, but his actions were so beyond the pale they were uncharacteristic of him even when drunk. Over the 10 yrs since that night, I have often wondered about it - I could NEVER understand what set him off, what made him behave so irrationally and downright mean to me (and a couple of others).

1 or 2 days before the last time he "lunched" (no sex) with POSOW, we had a HUGE fight in the car - same stuff of inexplicably being a total jerk. I got out of the car at a stop light, in cold December temps, and walked home. I remember during that walk trying for the life of me to figure out why he was so short tempered - I couldn't put my finger on anything I'd said or done to make him so mean.

Those two "bookends" of arguments (and several in between) look very different in hindsight.

Maybe he will get a diagnosis that would help me. I knew about a lot of his FOO issues - hence the begging for IC. But I can't quite justify mental illness after years of asking him to get some help...

[This message edited by gmc94 at 1:28 AM, October 25th, 2018 (Thursday)]

hopeandhealing posted 10/25/2018 02:00 AM

I am sorry you are struggling gmc. Your WH has a tonne of work to do on himself and it will take some serious time and a lot of energy/digging.

My WH is not mentally unwell, never has been. He comes from a stable home, no drama, parents married 51 years...the only issue he may have had was his parents put him on a pedestal, promoting his sense of entitlement and inflated sense of self. He was entirely competent to make the decisions he did, no mood disorder, no past trauma, just a selfish, immature guy, who put himself first in that domain of his life. He felt hard done by, not enough attention and works in a field where infidelity is half accepted. People certainly look the other way. He wanted his cake on the side and the cake was happy to be eaten (sadly, that is literally the case ) and stay on the side. In my opinion, all the result of immaturity, entitlement, selfishness, egocentricity. Mentally unwell, nope, nada not in the diagnosable form.

Ironically, we were in MC when he was having his final A, so with a person so capable of lying, that doesn't really matter. Here we are working on us and he's fu*#ing her later in the day, wow. Therapy only helps when people are wiling to be open and vulnerable to it, show up and put in the work.

Your WH needs to not only show up, but do the work. You have been through so much gmc, you can tell him what you need from him to continue "trying" to move forward with no guarantee that it works. That is what HE created with his choices. Your presence everyday is a gift to him.

I hear what you're saying on the trust piece. How can we trust again when they are such good liars, clearly. We didn't see it, would we see it next time? I will never give him 100% trust, but I can say, I feel fairly safe and trusting at 14 months out. Maybe I am a fool, time will tell. I prefer to see it as I am reclaiming my life, the life I enjoyed immensely before dday. His selfishness will not take any more from me than it already has, so I choose to look froward and day by day, I look back less and less often. I can't change the past, but I can choose the future, so I choose to focus my energies there.

My therapist told me "you will know one day what your decision is". As I sat on the fence for months, her words echoing in my mind, I thought, "she's wrong, I have no idea what to do and I am still on the fence with one leg on either side of the fence", but it did. I gently and slowly moved towards R. I didn't jump off the fence all at once, but I slowly lowering myself to that side.

Staying where you are sounds unacceptable to you. Trust in the belief that you will know when the time is right, if you are healing and moving forward. You will gather all the evidence and slowly lower yourself off the fence into wherever you believe you will be happiest, wherever that may be. ((())))

amanda123 posted 10/25/2018 05:26 AM

Svon I would love a mum like yours. Mine certainly loves me as well but she is not forgiving.

I have to raise my hand and say yes that sounds like my H as well, when it comes to not doing the work. He did not confess, OW outed him. He TTd so much, he was not transparent, would not give me his passwords etc. Then there is the other side of him, he is great around the house, always has been and is a good dad. He is very good to me now and so he should be after what he put me through.

We have definitely made progress and sometimes I feel like we have turned the corner. Still have a way to go. I feel that I have forgiven him to a certain degree otherwise im fairly sure our M would have been over by now. But....

I still have:

Feelings of resentment-
I feel that he wasn't punished nor did he have to face any consequences for what he did and what he put me through.

I am still angry-
I am not a jealous person but it makes me angry that he gave so much time and went to so much effort for her. While I was taken for granted. A The fact that it went on for 16 years.

I have asked him if he would come to counselling with me, and he said maybe. I know he is worried about being haulled over the coals. He doesnt articulate very well. He is the silent type but i guess that depends on who he is with or talking too. He managed to spend hours every week talking to OW no problem there!!!

This is one of my biggest struggles - I am so Hurt with things that he said to me-
He said some pretty shitty things.
I dont think I will ever get over the fact that he wanted me to die. I became very ill when I discovered the LTA. I went into breakdown mode. I dont think it can get any worse than the person you love wanting that to happen to you. My counsellor told me that it was easier for me to die than him having to make the choice to either be with me or OW. I know he loved her. When the counseller told me that I thought OMG what a nasty cowardly man he is. I would never wish that upon anyone. Of course now, he wishes he could take it all back.

If it wasn't for OW telling me I would probably have never known about it, unless he decided to up and leave us. So I am thankful to her for that. Don't get me wrong she told me for her own selfish reasons, of course she wanted me to leave him so she could be with him. She says he only stayed for the kids.

I have heard people often ask about what is your WS like now. Ok he is great now, couldnt ask for a better husband or father, its knowing what they are capable of doing, it's what they did in the past.

I could not live through that again.


Svon posted 10/25/2018 08:35 AM

GMC, I understand how you feel. My marriage and husband were not perfect before affair either, but I know SHE was a result of his mental health problems rather than the cause. Yes, many people are depressed that don’t cheat, but turning to some sort of drug is common.. (drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc). I remember when his affair started, I knew he was in bad shape mentally, but he too did not want help. We were not connecting well, but I have always believed marriages have ebbs and flows. The thing that really hurt me was our marriage was on track and good when I found out. I believe him when he says for years he “just didn’t know how to end it without her going crazy and outing him”. In his selfish immature mind he figured stringing her along in hopes she would eventually leave would be the better chance of me never knowing. She is vindictive and disclosed more details then I should know upon discovery when she learned my husband did not want her and dropped her cold. I don’t think your husband’s affair was the cause of his problems either, He was self medicating. Do I have resentment for the lost years that my husband should have been getting help? Of course! But, harping on it will not help me or change the past. And, he was more than just a depressed cheater. He was a funny man, good provider, and generous husband, I have to remember that too. All I have is now and my future. I know I am and will be happier with him and my family together. Punishing him gets me nowhere and it causes my pain to intensify. All I care about at this point is finding my happy comfort zone. The more I surrender to the life I want, the better I feel.

Amanda, it’s a shame your mom can’t be there for you. That must be hard. I was afraid to tell my mom at first. I was surprised at how supportive she has been. I am also surprised at how supportive my husband had been. He does IC, MC, and attends SLAA meetings. He answers all my questions and they are still daily. If he didn’t, it would be a deal breaker. I ask the same ones over and over sometimes. He has to deal with it. I text him at work if I need answers. He provides. Anything less and we would be done.

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