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Long Term Affairs Part 38

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amanda123 posted 8/14/2018 16:57 PM

Svon, I like the way you think. Lots to consider, even more that what you have mentioned.

I personally wouldnt want to stay in my marriage if I didnt love my H.

Do I believe my H loved me during his A? No. Does he love me now? I feel he does and he says he does.

The reason he didnt leave me? He wasnt sure he would be happy with OW.

He didnt drop her easily, after initial Dday he then took the A underground and it finally ended in 2015 when SHE told me about it. She got tired of waiting for him. So she ended it really.

After a really difficult time, where I was uncertain of whether I could forgive him, I gave him another chance to prove to show me that he will be devoted to me and our girls and really be a part of our family. When he was in the LTA he really wasnt present even though he was here.

Is my M worth fighting for I believe so. We built a life together we have 3 children. We work well as a team.

I try not to focus on the negative things anymore. Unfortunately the memories of the past will always be there.

I have to say that he is a good man now. Could he become that other person again? He says no. My heart wants to believe that but my head knows never to say never.

I still occasionally have triggers, they can be bad at times. They can send me back to that horrible place. I have been so upset with some of them that it actually makes me vomit. Im grateful they dont occur as often as they did.

I have considered all the variables with what my life would be like without him and I know it wouldnt be better.

hopeandhealing posted 8/14/2018 23:53 PM

I would hate for him to conquer it and another woman reap not only the benefits of H 2.0, but to enjoy half of a retirement that should be mine.

A friend of mine asked me shortly after dday about staying with my WH and my reply included the above. I said, he is doing all this work, being the partner I have always asked for and NOW I am going to leave? Why? So someone else can get the new, improved version and all that goes with him?

I imagined my life without my WH and I didn't like it...I liked even less the thought of him bringing someone else to future family events, our daughter's graduation, future weddings, the births of grandchildren. I hated that image so much more than I hated what he had done to me with his infidelity (which was a lot!!). That insight helped me say I had to try to see what could be.

I also told my friend "The M as we knew it is over, foundation and all. We are rebuilding a new one and I am clearly defining my expectations to have a far better M. Would someone else put all that work in? Maybe, but I am not sure". Having seen how he crushed my soul, I really don't believe he would have another A. Nobody else "owes" me honesty or fidelity for past actions (I know everyone should owe us all that, but it's just not the case) and I can't imagine going through this again and starting all over. Maybe it would be great, but I would rather first see if I can make my first M great, the one my WH imploded when he said yes to his first whore.

If our WS are doing the work, are remorseful, are good partners to us (with the obvious massive character flaw of being liars and cheaters) and we enjoy each other, is the M not worth fighting for? I used to think it was a deal breaker... before I was standing in these shoes.

CaliforniaNative posted 8/15/2018 11:38 AM

If our WS are doing the work, are remorseful, are good partners to us (with the obvious massive character flaw of being liars and cheaters) and we enjoy each other, is the M not worth fighting for? I used to think it was a deal breaker... before I was standing in these shoes

Fact: A man may realize that the affair is hurting is wife, family, and his own life but will still cheat. His personal needs of being wanted, valued, and appreciated by another woman will win outóespecially if he feels unwanted, undervalued, and taken for granted at home

So yes...it is a deal breaker for a lot of us. I feel that I am a strong person for a woman in her 40s leaving a man who makes excellent money. Son in tow. He was on his hands and knees begging. Why would I want to be married to a known liar, selfish cheater who has chose to hurt me and my son DAILY for years? I will not rug sweep this, he is broken. If it was a ONS or a drunken weekend I would have forgiven and stayed. Unfortunately the cake eaters had their hidden secret relationships. They didnít fight for our marriage during these relationships. I chose justice but itís ok if you chose kindness.

Also why is OW a whore and not the WS? I always see this with people going through R.

[This message edited by CaliforniaNative at 12:28 PM, August 15th (Wednesday)]

Svon posted 8/15/2018 18:35 PM

California Native, while I agree staying or leaving is very personal decision I wouldnít call leaving ďjusticeĒ. There is no justice in these situation. If leaving gives you peace then that is definitely what you should do, but it is not justice. For many of us, reconciling will be our greatest shot at peace and healing. It looks as though you originally considered reconciling and then your spouse broke the NC rule. That is a different story. I am happy you are choosing what is right for you, but equating your story to everyone elseís and your husband to all other cheaters is a bit unfair. Every story is different. Every spouse is different. To say no human is capable of change is also unfair. I realize that all of us our hurting, but tread lightly with your declarations on human nature. As for calling the AP a Whore... if it helps the pain, then why not? We are supposed to be supporting each other here. I hope your ďjusticeĒ gives you the peace you need more than the punishment you are seeking.

hopeandhealing posted 8/15/2018 21:38 PM

CaliforniaNative,

I feel that I am a strong person for a woman in her 40s leaving a man who makes excellent money. Son in tow. He was on his hands and knees begging. Why would I want to be married to a known liar, selfish cheater who has chose to hurt me and my son DAILY for years?

I respect your decision to leave your marriage and agree it takes strength to do so, as it also takes strength to find forgiveness for the As and pain caused to me by my WH and his selfish choices. I don't consider it weak to stay. Perhaps we have a different perception of that.

The H I see before me now is remorseful, is not lying, is demonstrating selflessness and has demonstrated change the past 5 years since his last A ended and he went NC in the matter of hours after I read a text between them. It was NSA sex, that's it. No emotional connection and I am willing to try to move past it. I can understand how for some reading that, it would be ludicrous to even consider, but we all have our own lines in the sand and I respect that yours was to leave considering the pain and lies he gave you and perhaps his demonstrated behaviours and actions post dday.

I guess I don't feel a need for "justice" or to punish in this situation that is already full of pain. There is no justice for what he is done and peace won't come to me in trying to punish him.

I do believe in the possibility of change, so far, evidence is supportive of that .I guess if I am wrong, then very likely I will be hurt again and if I am right, I have the possibility of a far better M than I had before.

Ironically, as I typed this message, my WH came in from reading outside on the deck gave me a kiss and with tears in his eyes spontaneously said "I am sorry for what I did to you". I asked him why he said that out of the blue and he said he was reading his book, read a sentimental part and felt badly again for the suffering he had caused me. That's why I am still here, because the man I fell in love with years ago is still there. Yes, he was incredibly selfish, repeatedly even, for 5 years, but those actions do not define all of who he is, all of who he is showing me to be. My choices are based on evidence now, not only emotion.

I will not rug sweep this, he is broken

Yes, my WH was very broken too, but he has done a lot of work to fix himself through IC and MC. I have not rug swept this. I have done a crap tonne of work to heal, reconcile, sit on the fence, watch and wait. I am choosing to move forward with this being a chapter in my life from which I will reflect and learn. It won't ever go away, but life is short and I am not interested in the selfish actions of someone else consuming my life. I would rather glance in the mirror as it comes up, as I am triggered, which is far less these days, despite the dday first anniversary being only weeks away. Bad things happen to good people, I see it everyday in the work I do. I want to live fully now, so I am choosing to do so, volitionally, with intent.

Also why is OW a whore and not the WS? I always see this with people going through R.

I do not sugar coat my WH actions. My WH's choice to cheat was consistent with being a selfish a$$hole period. He put his need to have NSA sex at the top of his priority list. I do not blame his APs for his As. He had to open the door to them. They had no horse in the race and owed me nothing (though I would argue if they were decent human beings, they would have owed me not sleeping with my H).

Choosing to sleep wth a married man, knowing he is married with children equates with being a whore in my world. You are welcome to disagree with me and define a whore as something else for your frame of reference.

I am sorry your WH didn't fight for your M during his r/s and hope you have found peace and happiness now.

[This message edited by hopeandhealing at 10:19 AM, August 16th (Thursday)]

northeasternarea posted 8/16/2018 17:56 PM

It takes strength to stay, it takes strength to leave.

Also why is OW a whore and not the WS? I always see this with people going through R.

They were both whores.

For what it's worth, I don't think the LTA forum was designed as a place to throw thinly veiled darts at people who choose a path that is different from the one that we have chosen.

Svon posted 8/16/2018 21:40 PM

While I agree that LTA are absolutely painful, I am trying not to dwell on the length. It could be the result of many things. Often, shorter affairs are just caught earlier so they ended. Is that less hurtful? Or how about the intense affair in which case a spouse leaves with AP permanently or temporarily. LTA Gave your spouse plenty of opportunity to leave, but they chose not to. Itís certainly not a ďwinĒ to say that, but I feel other types of affairs can be equally hurtful. How about 10 years of ons? Would the disease exposure be better? Just a different perspective. Betrayal sucks all around.

WhyAgainWhyHer posted 8/17/2018 07:46 AM

When I busted him the first time, I totally bought into the whole "she's whore" and he was sooooo innocent. He totally blamed her and I wanted to believe it. This time around, I'm not so stupid. They are both nasty people.

donna3 posted 8/17/2018 14:17 PM

Each of our hurts are extremely personal. We come here to find solace, seeking out others trying to get thru the same experience. We each handle our paths as we see best for us. That being said, I am sure that we all look for people with similar experiences and similar results. I know I look for BS whose WS was in a LTA and then choose to try to R. This gives me hope, and maybe a bit of justification that it was OK for me to try to save the M. Others need to find someone that kicked their WS to the curb. That is ok also. Whatever the reason, we need to support each other. In the end, no matter what the circumstances, we all need a shoulder to cry on, a place to vent, and someone to give us assurances ( or maybe swing a 2X4 once in a while)

I have regrets how I handled things early on. I was just so devastated and did not want my WS to run to OW. I was not functioning well and had not found SI. I did the pick me dance after writing a long letter of my demands (NC, etc). I thought I had been given all the truths but alas, liars continue to lie. But now, 4+ years into this, there is no rug sweeping. I have made peace with my decisions. I have worked very hard to get thru this as I will never get over this. The pain still ups and kicks my ass every so often, but this A and this grief no longer define me as person. And my H is working so very hard each and every day.

The hardest part of all this? Is it the length? The intimacy? the Lies? who knows, but bundled all together this is the hardest thing I have ever had to conquer in my whole life. I thought I was a strong person before all this. But the A and the aftermath brought me to my knees. But I fought for what I wanted and H gave me all I asked for and somehow I found strength.

Here's to peace for each and every one of you, whatever you decide. But remember we are here for support - for ourselves and to give to others.

amanda123 posted 8/17/2018 19:09 PM

Donna very well said.

I lost a very dear friend of mine on Wednesday. She has a 13 year old son. In a matter of 6 weeks of walking into the hospital because she felt dizzy to dying 6 weeks later never leaving the hospital.

Life is too short and very unpredictable. Make the most of what you have and try to make every day count and most of all enjoy it, be happy because we never know what might happen tomorrow.

northeasternarea posted 8/17/2018 20:02 PM

amanda123, I am so sorry for your loss.

amanda123 posted 8/18/2018 01:26 AM

Thank you northeasternarea.

You are right it takes strength both to stay and to leave.

CaliforniaNative posted 8/18/2018 17:19 PM

I just see multiple d days in R. I gave my WS a chance as I was on the fence and one slip up and he was out. Once the trust was lost the marriage was over.

I am sorry your WH didn't fight for your M during his r/s and hope you have found peace and happiness now.

Canít we say that about everyoneís WS? They were not fighting for the marriage while in a LTA. As a matter of fact, it was the opposite.

My WH had remorse but when I saw the text I was done. A lot of men just take it further underground and I see lot of women doing R again and again. Thatís not me.

Whore - yes she is not a good person. The WS is worse as they had broken their vows. They are both a$$holes.

Justice - he lost everything. I grew strong. There is no going to jail, but he doesnít get my love and respect anymore. I will save that for someone that treats me with the loyality I deserve. My dog Leo and my son get all my love now. 🐕 👱🏼‍♂️

I am not going to comment on who is stronger. The choices we have are not that great. Stay with someone that has a history of being an a$$hole to you or go through the hell of Divorce.

I am sorry if this doesnít give you the support you need or want. This isnít the R forum. This post is for the BS whose WS had a LTA and we all dealt with it differenty.. Hopefully if this happens again you will leave if you can. Donít let them be like Tiger Woods. My life is 98% drama free and I am far from a bag lady (in reference to fears about divorce).

[This message edited by CaliforniaNative at 9:13 PM, August 18th (Saturday)]

Svon posted 8/19/2018 10:36 AM

California Native, It is interesting to me that your justice has still not brought you peace. If your life was as wonderful and drama free as you claim, I suspect you would no longer seek comfort from this site. We are all here searching for a community that understands. Understanding does not mean we need or should impose our thoughts, values, or beliefs on each other. You insinuated that none of our husbands were fighting for their marraige as they cheated. I donít think that is a black and white as it seems. Yes, my husband did horrible things for a long time. The question is why. I know why. He was in a dark menatally unstable place. Some people turn to drugs, gambling, etc...my husbandís escape was another woman. Does it excuse his behavior? Absolutely not, but he and we were more than his choices. He was also the husband who was good to me. He provided for me. He took care of me. We built a beautiful family together. He is not only his sins. He is working on himself. He wants to be healthy. I believe in his own weak way, he did did fight for his marraige every day he chose not to leave. In a weird way, he fought for the marriage by hiding his sins as he was convinced exposing them would end his marraige. His marraige was more important than what he was doing. He was weak. There is absolutely no excuses for what he did. I can understand where he was mentally, but that does not mean I rug sweep it or justIfy it. We all have fears, insecurities, etc.... that we carry with us. Most of us can deal with them in a non destructive way. Clearly, my husband could not at the time. His depression was severe. He is dealing now. I believe humans are capable of horrible things and worthy of forgiveness. Mental health is always spoken about, especially when some troubled teen shoots up a school. Most of our husbands our mentally troubled. I am glad a woman was his drug of choice over something more sinister. It does hurt like hell, yes, but for now, losing my life and family would hurt worse. I prefer to focus on his healing and the man he always was to me. Although my sins are no where near as grave as his have been, I would hate for my character to be judged solely off of them. We are all more than the wrongs we have committed. We are all happy you chose what you feel is right for you, but your inability to not judge those who choose differently causes me to struggle to believe it gave you much peace at all. It seems as though you are seeking validation for your choice. You write as though you need us all to say ďyou made the right choice while those who stayed were not strong enough to do soĒ. The choices we all make are right for our individual situations, values, and needs. The right choice can only be determined by you. No one will ever be able to validate it for you, but yourself. Perhaps you are seeking comfort while you divorce. There is a forum for that. Maybe that can help you. I wish you peace.

CaliforniaNative posted 8/19/2018 11:14 AM

It does hurt like hell, yes, but for now, losing my life and family would hurt worse.

You donít lose your family or life by choosing D. You see your family less...kids that is, but my life is right here. Take it from someone that knows.

I am not looking for validation, nor should you. I do go to the D forum and help a lot of people privately go through the process. I am here to read other stories. When I tell my story to friends and family I get my validation there ó from the people that matter most to me. I know in R some people canít even talk about it outside of these boards.

I do understand what youíre going through. That doesnít mean I have to agree with everything. However you need to live your life and make choices that are best for you. My ex is just a narcissist. I am loyal and honest and he is not. Game over. I am still angry at what he did to our family (yes I see it that way) but I donít fight with him, I donít trigger, I have started to date and I am moving on. So yes i am 98% at peace.

[This message edited by CaliforniaNative at 11:31 AM, August 19th (Sunday)]

Svon posted 8/19/2018 11:29 AM

I absolutely would lose the life and family that I have now and love. My literal life would not be over, but it would be completely different. I want the life I have. You are absolutely the most judge mental person I have found on this site. No one here is agreeing ior disagreeing with each otherís choices to stay or leave except for you. That comes from a place of deep insecurities. I wish you a future of peace and mental health. This is no place for judgements. This site is for support. We all deserve respect and understanding in our choices. I have read all replies to you and everyone has offered you that support despite your judgements of them and their differing choices. I hope the pain eventually subsides in you enough to offer us all the same respect.

CaliforniaNative posted 8/19/2018 11:36 AM

I hope the pain eventually subsides in you enough to offer us all the same respect.

There is no pain other then my head cold lol. I wish you the best of luck.

gmc94 posted 8/19/2018 19:24 PM

with all due respect, c'mon folks.

This entire site is designed to provide SUPPORT. I am grateful for this forum, with administrators so dedicated they put in long hours just to help others who are, in most cases, suffering from the worst pain and heartache they will ever experience.

At a time in my own life when I find it hard to find good in anyone, I have managed to find good here - from both BS and WS. And I am grateful.

I am grateful to hear from others as they struggle through the ravages of infidelity, to give and receive understanding and strength as we stumble through this most humbling experience.

I am grateful that those who have survived, learned, adapted, healed, found new joys, and transformed through the kind of broken that causes/results from infidelity are willing to come here and share their innermost selves and their journeys through the dark tunnels we've found ourselves in. I aspire to have the compassion and grace I see here every time I read.

I am saddened by today's posts on this thread, comments which I believe are borne of pain. All of us have opinions, and they may differ widely, just as each of our journeys differ while we all try to pick through the ruins of the marriages we thought (or told ourselves)we had. I respect the opinions of EVERY person on this site (and this thread). And I hope we can see that when we turn on each other, we run the risk of silencing the very sharing that makes this place so special.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 7:31 PM, August 19th (Sunday)]

hopeandhealing posted 8/21/2018 00:38 AM

I am sorry if this doesnít give you the support you need or want. This isnít the R forum. This post is for the BS whose WS had a LTA and we all dealt with it differenty.. Hopefully if this happens again you will leave if you can. Donít let them be like Tiger Woods. My life is 98% drama free and I am far from a bag lady (in reference to fears about divorce).

I just see multiple d days in R. I gave my WS a chance as I was on the fence and one slip up and he was out.

I haven't been on SI for a few days, and am unclear if you are directing much of your post to me CaliforniaNative, as mine was in response to your initial post, but in the event you are, I appreciate your opinions.

All of us on this site share walking the journey of infidelity, but the roads traveled have different characters, detours, scenery etc.. I don't profess to know what is best for you or anyone else here, nor do I think you know what is best for me or my family. All we have is our shared experience of infidelity and our own frames of reference, which as stories are familiar to our own, sometimes draw stronger opinions as they hit close to home.

The sharing on this site is profound as we can draw strength from the familiar, hope from success stories (with success defined as happy and fulfilled lives after the destruction of an A, either through R or D), and seek guidance from those more experienced. I write on this site in hopes that something I write will resonate with someone and hopefully provide them with hope, strength, ideas for coping, anything really.

My WH knows in no uncertain terms that if he lies to or betrays me in any way again, there is no discussion of the status of our relationship, I am done, no looking back. This gift of grace given with R is a one time gift for me, but I can appreciate for others, they may be able to offer it more than once.

I appreciate your concern with WS taking it more underground and more ddays to come, particularly with a serial cheater, but I honestly don't believe that will be the case with my WH. I will only speak for my rs that he is working his ass off to be the partner I have asked for for years. His phone is out in the open, his time is accounted for, he is attentive, nurturing, kind, compassionate, empathetic, thoughtful...the many things he did not exude in his A. Thus for me, based on the objective evidence before me, I am willing to take the risk and offer R, after much fence sitting, watching and waiting. I completely understand how others reading this would have a different line in the sand and be shaking their heads at their computers at the notion of giving R to a serial cheater. That's ok with me, only I can truly judge what is before me.

I am not going to comment on who is stronger. The choices we have are not that great. Stay with someone that has a history of being an a$$hole to you or go through the hell of Divorce.

As stated previously, I think both require strength and the pros and cons vary individually. Being in this position is less than ideal and yes, I am choosing to be with someone who has a history of being an a$$hole, but I am also choosing to stop focusing on the past, to believe that change is possible and live in the moment (I am an eternal glass half fuller - enter possible head shaking again).

I have a better M now than I ever have. Yup, my WH made incredibly selfish decisions to have NSA sex outside the marriage and we both have to live with that, but it is not all of who he is and I am willing to focus on the person he is showing me to be (and who he has been the past 5 years since the last A ended). As I said, my professional work reminds me ever day of the fragility of life. My clients all assumed their tomorrows would look like today, before their lives were forever changed. Tomorrow is not a guarantee, so I am choosing to focus on the positives in my life and to be honest, at this point, my WH is a positive.

Amanda123,

I am sorry for the loss of your friend.

[This message edited by hopeandhealing at 12:42 AM, August 21st (Tuesday)]

amanda123 posted 8/21/2018 06:24 AM

hopeandhealing, thank you.

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