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Long Term Affairs Part 38

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Makesmewannapuke posted 5/4/2018 15:37 PM

Question regarding LTA and serial cheaters. So....does LTA automatically make one a serial cheater or does one have to have multiple partners to be a serial cheater? Is there something different that could make one a serial cheater that I'm missing?

I've been thinking on this a lot and I feel like length of time cheating regardless of how many partners might/could/should equal serial cheating. But I certainly can't trust my own judgement right now so thought I'd throw it out for review.

crazyblindsided posted 5/4/2018 16:32 PM

My WS is a serial cheater. He has had multiple occurrences of flirtations and other signs that point to a past A but only one LTA that I had full proof of. So I consider that serial cheating. I think any crossing of boundaries whether it is EA or PA or both would be considered cheating.

Mickeymom posted 5/5/2018 00:22 AM

Mlav69: our DD very close mine was month before.
I can totally understand the WTF and the miracle of DD of how I became his whole world, it is odd and I donít think we can understand my only thought is when your pretend world and your real world collid, something in the WS mind switches for some because in their minds this would never happen, but when the shit it the fan he wanted what was real not what was make believe and you are real.
I hear your words and your in so much pain still. I am so sorry. I have let go of the WTF most days I am not 100% by any means but letting go of things I canít control and the past is something I canít control or change what I can can control and change is my reactions. I know I will not tolerate any cheating what so ever thatís a deal breaker and us working through our day to day life issues is very important, and getting her to this point I finally have some form of peace.
Peace to my LTA tribe

amanda123 posted 5/6/2018 07:04 AM

Makesmewannapuke your question is a difficult one to answer.

Lets say your spouse cheated on you with the one partner for many years. If the pyschologist asked you had he ever done this before you would most likely answer no.

However in say that, it doesnt mean that it was a one time thing or a one night stand either because this has been going on for years just only with the one person.

No matter what the name is for this type of person, the common term cheater is enough. The hurt is the same the devastation they caused is the same.

deephurt posted 5/6/2018 11:39 AM

I can relate to what you all are saying. Its the mind fuck of the LTA I guess.

I have really come to accept that he didn't love me for most of our 30 year M. He says he did and he says that he was always in love with me but I can see it differently now. He did not love me, he felt comfortable with me and treated me like family (that he had sex with).

It makes me feel like an object. Like the maid and financier. Like his mom-except for the sex.

I feel resentment sometimes. I feel ripped off- of a lot of things. Mostly the M I should have had the whole time.

Wh said that he wishes he never had sex with anyone, ever in his life except me now....even the ones before me. I was only ever with him. I have no sexual experience, other than kissing, with anyone else. He asked me if I wish I had been with anyone else. Previous to DDay, I would have said yes but now, I can't. I am angry that he took anything that I considered special between us, sexually and intimately and shit all over it like it was nothing. I have a lot of anger still about that.

MOW is a non issue for me now. I sometimes wonder what WH's thoughts on MOW are. I know what he would tell me but what if its not the truth. What if, in the back of his mind, he isn't sorry it happened. Maybe he is hiding the fact that he is glad it happened because she made him feel good maybe? Maybe he fantasizes about her and not me now? Maybe he misses her but would never admit to any of it. How do any of us know right? These things bother me still and sometimes keep me awake.

I will never feel completely safe with WH and I know I would never feel completely safe with anyone now. I will never trust another sole the way I trusted WH again. Ever.

On dday, I realized that the only person I can count on is me. I still feel that way now. I know WH is trying. He says he is remorseful and would never hurt me again but I know what he is capable of doing now.

makevmewannapuke- first, your user name is spot on. Serial cheating, I believe, is described as someone who can't stop from cheating. Like an addiction. LTA could be considered the same I guess. My WH was addicted to the high. He was addicted to the ego kibbles. He has no idea why he couldn't stop, even when he said he wanted to and was trying. I don't know that it counts as serial cheating as much as hard to break the habit/addiction.

I consider serial cheating as someone who cheats on more than one but i may be way off base.

I hate that this is my life now. This was not suppose to be how my life turned out.

Chaos posted 5/6/2018 11:46 AM

There are days I feel good and others I think THREE FUCKING YEARS. He lived a double life and lied non stop for 3 **** years.

Just when I wrap my head around things, those three [ironic no] words come back to me. THREE FUCKING YEARS.

How could you? You knew it was wrong, you admit after 6 months you realized you couldn't do this and that you wouldn't leave your family so for 2.5 more years you did this to me and to us?

Three f***ing years.

Bad morning - could you all tell?

amanda123 posted 5/7/2018 04:16 AM

deephurt, spot on, I share so many of your thoughts.

How he changed and turned into this horrible person I sometimes look at him think do i really even know him now.

I cant get over the fact that he actually did this. The whys keep coming and going.

Im also struggling with the fact that I am probably plan B. Even though H says that is not the case.

I am trying really hard to communicate with him but it just doesnt seem to be going anywhere. I want him to open up and talk to me and tell me what he is feeling what his thoughts are but nope its not happening. It is so disappointing.

Chaos, Hugs I hear you.

donna3 posted 5/7/2018 13:41 PM

Hi all. Been a while for me but this last week I have been kinda triggery and weepy. Not sure why but I have had to talk myself off the ledge a few times. I can so relate to what all of you are writing. Things are really good now, H is doing everything right, but the elephant shows up in the room and I just feel so sad. Like you, Chaos I keep asking myself how could you continue to go see her for 3 years. He tells me he knew it was wrong, knew it should stop but he just couldnít and could give me no reason why not. I tell myself it is all in the past and I need to let it go, but I just canít. I want to be done with the pain. I want to never have experienced this awful, awful pain. He tells me he never loved her yet he was willing to hurt me, leave me for weekends, not care about me for her. Told me sex with her was amazing. Said she was his best friend. My self esteem is so low at times even tho I know that what he did was not my fault. Tears me apart just thinking of it.

We have worked really hard on our M, both of us but my H has carried the brunt of it. He is a different person in so many ways , better than even early in our M. My life with him would be perfect it it wasnít for the grindstone I carry around weighing down my heart. Like all of you that are afew years down the road, I wonder if this heaviness will ever completely go away.

I donít come back here often, but when I do it is nice to get support from my fellow LTA wounded veterans. And to you newbies, here is hoping you get what you need from here to Get you thru this awful time.

deephurt posted 5/7/2018 17:44 PM

Donna-I asked the same. Even when he said he was trying to stop-he didnít. I asked why couldnít you? He has no idea.

Itís an addiction. No different than cocaine. They need ththe fix cause it makes them feel so good about themselves. I donít understand how you can feel good about yourself while you are destroying your bs. I just know that wsís seem to feel awesome during their a.

Well damn, maybe I would like to feel that way too. Maybe these wsís could put that kind of work into their mía and help us feel awesome.

So we get to feel like crap and have our self esteem demolishes so they can feel good about themselves by getting an o?

It all sucks.

Ii havenít been in a great place lately. No reason why. Wh has been great for the most part. I still get annoyed that he leaves most of the work around the house for me to do but he does help more than he ever did.

We are going to be working together so now I wonít ever question where he is because he should be with me all the time. Thatís good right? It should give me some comfort. Time will tell.

donna3 posted 5/7/2018 18:22 PM

Deep hurt - yes, there is that keyword: time. I am at 4.5 years in a few days and I feel much better today than last May. And last May was better than the one before that and so on. In November I will hit my magical 5 years in the 2-5 year plan and I have already decided that this will hurt to some extent forever. I still cry just at the thought of H with OW. Maybe someday that will change. Or not.

My H is ALL IN in this R process. He tells me at least once a week that he will never forget what he did to me and that he works daily to make things right. I know he still has fears of me walking out the door even now - he says that I will forever have that right and therefor he needs to make sure he is doing what he needs to do to keep me.

My mantra is: Let it go, it is in the past, and I cannot change that past. Stay in the now. I ask myself how a lot how do I feel about my H NOW. That is what keeps me steady.

Now, I know there are many threads about self esteem after the A. OW was 10 year younger, thinner, and way more experienced in sex. It just crushes me. I can't help but think he has some leftover thoughts of how he felt with her. H says no, but really? He says if he thinks of her at all it is with shame and regret. He says he has no room in his head for any memories of her because his whole focus is me. But if that certain song comes on or a smell (she was a smoker) or a sex position we are in, how can he not remember?? And that crushes me also.

I have always known that my H has obsessive behavior. I guess once he got started with OW the obsession took over. The first words out of his mouth after I confronted him was "thank god it is now over" I will just never understand.

Hopefully by next May I won't be shedding any more tears. I think my biggest obstacle in getting over this is me and my opinion of myself. I gotta keep working on that.

To all of you: thanks for lending an ear. It does help me to let it all out. Enjoy spring and all that brings. new beginnings and so on...

deephurt posted 5/8/2018 00:32 AM

Itís heart wrenching the damage that their selfishness and immaturity causes the ones they say they love.

The only reason I stay is because of who he is now. If he hadnít made a lot of changes, I would not have wanted to stay.

I have to look at him as the guy during the a and this new guy to stay.

Iíve been on the receiving end of serious trauma on more than one occasion. The infidelity is by far the most hurtful.
Iím beginning to think that there is really something wrong with me that people see me as disposable. That feeling leaves me feeling like if the end were to come, it could be a blessing.

That disposable feeling is probably the worst part for me. I thought I meant a lot to him and to realize that I really meant very little to him for so many years is so painful.

We played some game a few years back. The question was something to the effect of ď if you could only choose between the two-would you rather be a doormat and not hurt someone else or walk all over someone to not be hurt yourself?Ē
I chose the doormat and he chose walming all over someone else. I think that speaks volumes and to this day, it makes me feel like this could all easily happen again. It makes me question his character because who the hell doesnít care about hurting someone else? I wonder what his answer would be now. If he has changed that much or not.

I donít live my life like a doormat but I would prefer to never hurt someone. Maybe I need to change the way I think.

I agree that the a was like an addiction. He said he was glad it was over too. I also donít get whatís so difficult about stopping. I donít get whatís difficult about saying no to begin with. Wh said mow initially grabbed his crotch. So you know, canít say no. You have to whip it out for her if she is gonna grab it. Let her tug in it for a while right? You wouldnít want to reject her advances. I mean, clearly he was thinking something could happen anyway, otherwise, why meet in a park in a parked car. He actually gave me the impression that he had no idea something would happen and never wanted it to. Yep, meet a woman in a parked car and keep it a secret from your wife screams that I wasnít looking for it.

amanda123 posted 5/8/2018 03:36 AM

I too have asked some questions and had answers that have shocked me a little.

I asked my H (probably around the time that OW appeared on the scene) if we had our time over would he marry me again. His answer didnt thrill me at all. He stuttered and stammered and then said he probably wouldnt get married at such a young age.

Years later when middle daughter was very young he came out of his office and said just out of the blue, if you or I were ever to meet someone that we thought we could be happier with then why would we stay together! I said what? Have you met someone else? He said no. Im just saying. Which was a lie, it was OW.

He must have been won over with the sexy black underwear drenched in her perfume that she sent him in a birthday card.

Chaos posted 5/8/2018 11:17 AM

I asked the same. Even when he said he was trying to stop-he didnít. I asked why couldnít you? He has no idea.


Yes! Yes! 1000x YES!!!!!!

deephurt donna3 That's just it. Why? Why didn't you stop?

You knew it was wrong. You knew you didn't want to leave and/or lose your family. WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST STOP?

Numbers and social media can be easily blocked. Why didn't you?


Or more specifically:

How could you? How could you do this to me?

I'm the love of your life. I'm your everything. Yet you still did this. How could you? For 3 fucking years. How could you?

[This message edited by Chaos at 11:17 AM, May 8th (Tuesday)]

deephurt posted 5/8/2018 12:11 PM

chaos-right?

After a almost a decade of a private friendship/A (the A became not physical for about 7 years and WH says he was never emotionally tied to her-I call BS but i digress) and talking to her most days, if not everyday. Why was it so easy for him to never talk to her again when I confronted him?

Why, when he said he was trying to stop, could he not? I mean what is so hard about telling someone that what you are doing is wrong and that you love your BS and feel its best if all contact was terminated immediately. Why is it so hard to have your BS's back? Why is it so hard to put your BS first?

So may questions. I have asked these and the answer is always.....I don't know. I have no idea what I was thinking at the time.

Its very hard to reconcile when you don't have those types of answers. Its like asking us to just say, oh okay, you don't remember but you say you love me now, so all is forgiven. Lets pretend it didn't happen. Its not that simple.

WH never particularly like MOW so why would he agree to meet her at a park? He doesn't remember. Who the hell doesn't know that when someone invites you to meet at a park, in a car, that their intention is to become intimate? I mean, dah....

They did it because they wanted to. They continued because it felt good to be wanted by someone that wasn't your spouse. They continued because they couldn't give up all those ego kibbles-and free sex.

We weren't even a thought. They don't think they will ever be caught-cause they are that clever, so they don't think about the consequences. Thinking about consequences, spoiled the buzz. Until it all comes crashing down and they are terrified of losing the person they apparently really do love- us.

I asked WH if he ever considered consequences before doing anything, he said no. Of course he does....he was a frigging cop for gods sake. He had to think of consequences everyday.

Thing is, thinking about the consequences to me was not an issue because I don't believe he cared as much as he says he cared.

I found a hair on WH's shirt one day. I remember it well now....in hindsight. I assumed it was our sons girlfriends hair because she had done our laundry with theirs sometimes-they lived with us at the time. Then, I thought about it and it would have had to have been there all day. Wh said it probably was....because he was deflecting and trying to make sure I didn't start putting the pieces together. I don't understand why I didn't think it could be because he was cheating, I feel like an idiot for not......BUT, I found it while we were on our way out for the evening. I remember, he came home and wanted to take me out for the evening-I am such a lucky woman. My WH is so thoughtful. He screws MOW and then takes me out for a night on the town. Those types of things stick in my mind and make me feel like I still have no idea who he is. How could I have married someone so incredibly cruel and manipulative. Those thoughts interfere with my healing.

Chaos posted 5/8/2018 13:06 PM

deephurt - I know. Sadly, I understand.

The more I read here, the more I see these stories are so tragically similar.

And just when our R seems to be going good, those 3 words come back to me "three fucking years".

Thatís the hardest part for me to wrap my head around. While I canít excuse, I can almost understand the start of this. It is the continuation that I just canít fathom. And thatís where I get hung up. Iím afraid thatís where I will remain stuck. And that I wonít be able to move past. Which is why I came to this LTA thread.

Iím finding myself looking for a Wayward perspective. Some tidbit of rationale that might make some sense to me. And Iím just finding the same bull s*** excuses of ďBy the time I realized WTF I was doing, I was too far in to stop. I tried to stop but just kept getting sucked back in. And the next thing you know years have passed. Blah blah blahĒ

I donít understand. And it hurts so terribly much. And Iím very afraid that I will never get past it. I so want my R to work. I truly believe WH wants our R to work. WH is doing his work.

Iím stuck with the reality of the eternal conundrum:

WH Ė What can I do?

BS Ė Make this not have happened.

deephurt posted 5/8/2018 14:01 PM

chaos-I so get what you are saying.

If only we had time machine and could go back and undo. Wouldn't that be a godsend.

I wanted the wayward perspective as well but in the end, none of it makes any sense to a betrayed. We aren't wired the same and there is no sense to be made out of nonsense.

I have certain things that keep coming back to my mind. 9 years is one of them. I know that it wasn't a PA for 7 of those 9 years but I can't stop thinking about how he stopped it the first time around after having only a few encounters at a park with MOW that led to intercourse once. He felt nauseous and vomited after apparently. He told her never again......but then he kept in contact with her, and then after 7 years of keeping their contact secret, he went back to sex with her again. To know that my WH couldn't resist going back again is a difficult thing to deal with.

It almost makes me feel like he fell for her, but if he did, how could he so easily walk away. I don't think there was real feelings there but possibly fantasy feelings. It makes me furious. I have asked him what was so special about her that he wanted to talk to her and not me during the day iso much. Why her? No answer.

Like you, I doubt that i will ever "get over it". I will always think of what he did. I will never trust him again like I did, I will always wonder if there was more to it or more AP's. IT will never be away from my mind for long.

How nice for my WH that he doesn't think about it any longer. How awesome that he has someone that would never hurt him on purpose. How awesome to be able to trust your spouse......how awesome to know that his wife has never been with anyone else-ever and not have any mind movies. How awesome that he doesn't have this kind of betrayal to live with every day for the rest of his life. I would actually like to hear that what he did eats away at him some days. I don't hear that though. I would like to hear that he has suffered. I know he believes he has but damn.....nothing in comparison.

Having said that, I don't know that I could live the rest of my life knowing that I hurt another human being to that extent. But he doesn't think about it so I guess he isn't as bothered as I would be.

I know he is really trying. He said he looks forward to making me the happiest person there is. I can see him trying. Thing is, he asked me to re-marry him almost 2 years ago. I told him I would but he had to make all the plans. So far nothing. I have asked about it numerous times over those two years, always an excuse. He recently said he has something planned but I am not allowed to know because its a surprise. I don't know. Its always in the future, or me ruining a surprise. We had our 30th anniversary last year, I thought for sure he was waiting for that-nope. WE went on a couple of cruises since he asked and-nope. I am beginning to wonder if he just keeps saying its a surprise so I say nothing and he can keep stalling. It makes me feel so unimportant to him.

i told him that he broke every single vow and he has done nothing to try to put them back in place. I told him that my rings mean nothing to me anymore. They are a symbol of the promises and vows he broke. I have other rings, but another set that we could use, bought during his A. They mean nothing either.

I don't know if its possible to fix this. I know I can have a happy future with him but I don't think there can ever be a fix.

I will never consider R if it happens again though. I will never tolerate any form of disrespect again. I may have given him a second chance but there will never be a third. I will be done forever, no looking back.

I will never allow anyone to disrespect me ever again. I have been treated like I am disposable.....that will never happen again.

donna3 posted 5/8/2018 20:17 PM

Yes,yes. What deephurt said at the end part of her post. Amen sister

donna3 posted 5/8/2018 20:17 PM

Duplicate

[This message edited by donna3 at 9:32 PM, May 8th (Tuesday)]

gmc94 posted 5/9/2018 19:33 PM

I read the last couple of days' posts on this thread

and then I think I'll copy/paste and send to my WH.


WTF? Why would I do that?

I wanted the wayward perspective as well but in the end, none of it makes any sense to a betrayed. We aren't wired the same and there is no sense to be made out of nonsense.

It seems that's a 2-way street.... I also want my WS to see reactions of BS - to see how similar we all feel. But, "we aren't wired the same" and I don't think he'll ever understand - never have a clue what this feels like.

How nice for my WH that he doesn't think about it any longer. How awesome that he has someone that would never hurt him on purpose. How awesome to be able to trust your spouse......how awesome to know that his wife has never been with anyone else-ever and not have any mind movies. How awesome that he doesn't have this kind of betrayal to live with every day for the rest of his life. I would actually like to hear that what he did eats away at him some days. I don't hear that though. I would like to hear that he has suffered. I know he believes he has but damn.....nothing in comparison

I also don't think I will EVER "get over it". MY consequences for HIS selfishness and lies are now a part of my life. Forever.

NINE fucking years! PA
OR
THIRTY EIGHT FUCKING YEARS! (secret "friendship")

I went through the timeline - and they went three years (2014-17) w/o sex.... but he went right back at it last fall.

His reason? He has ED and wanted to "feel like a man" again.... and he was "weak".

Don't tell me you didn't think of consequences.


today, I'm clueless as to why I'm even considering R.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 7:37 PM, May 9th (Wednesday)]

PurpleHaze posted 5/9/2018 20:38 PM

I am soooo glad I found this!!! Dday last July. I was in shock for months, then sick for a bit over a month. Still trying to wrap my brain around 16 plus years out of a 23 year marriage. Disposable doesn't even begin to describe it. OW was an ex gf who remained a body buddy till he met me, if I can believe that! Supposedly started around our 6-8 years after marriage, our daughter was so young. Sex in the beginning followed by texting, emails, sexting then sex again as she came to our town and rented a nice hotel room. She has been cheating with WH her ENTIRE marriage. I made lots of mistakes early on and am just learning that. Found this site late April. Found out about affair because he didn't meet her last time she came to town so she texted him in the evening and I saw it. Then I got to turn in to a bat shit crazy detective.

First husband was a cheater so WH knew the pain I suffered and actually used that to gaslight me when my gut was screaming. I will ALWAYS trust my gut. Not so sure I'll ever trust another person. I am not sure what I want at this point. WH is trying, in MC, reading, treating me the way he should have for years but I don't know if it matters. 16 fing years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have finally hit anger, the rollercoaster is freaking real. WH says he wishes it never happened, I don't think so he had years to stop the bs.

One of my mistakes was texting the OW. She texted me with bs, denial, then it happened, then sex was mundane, WH wasn't that into it, what a load of bs. She was scared I would tell her husband. By the time I came out of the fog she blocked me from all his contacts I could find. Still trying to figure that one out. I haven't texted her since early October. She gave me the gift of some descriptive stuff that are mind movies even when I sleep.

Reading here, the pain stays. The anger as well. I didn't think Id ever get over this. He knew what she was like and they had great sex in the past but it wasn't great during the affair. He wanted her plain and simple and it hurts and makes me angry and....... I fing hate this.

In IC and I am changing alot. Not sure who I'll be but I will never be who I was. Trust is out the window and I miss that. I don't have it at all for anyone really right now. I feel like Im only worth it when they lose me. Feels like shit, no other way to describe it.

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