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Long Term Affairs Part 38

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amanda123 posted 4/14/2018 18:36 PM

Can I ask how many of your WS know that you post on this site? Have you told them? If so do they visit?

I personally have never told my H about this site because I felt this was for me and I had something and someone to turn to when I couldnt tell anyone about what he had done.

steadychevy posted 4/14/2018 19:28 PM

My WW knows. I told her. I thought she could get some hints about what's required to R. See what FWS say. I think it made an impact. She's never posted on any thread I've been on or countered what I've written. I've never done that either with her. I won't get into a "he said' she said" or argument on SI.

I've always said that whatever I had to say I would say. I would say the same in front of her. Now I wish I hadn't. There's things that I'd like to discuss regarding separation, divorce and maybe, in time, new beginnings. There's things I don't want her to know now that we're separated.

hopefull77 posted 4/15/2018 07:27 AM

My H knows of this site and he has read things here ...I don't think he's ever come here on his own.. I think he knows this is my " safe" place

northeasternarea posted 4/15/2018 14:08 PM

I have never mentioned it to him.

gmc94 posted 4/15/2018 14:33 PM

My WH knows of the site bc I felt it may be helpful to read some of the threads.

I don't like that he may be reading mine, but haven't specifically talked to him about it or asked him not to.

gmc94 posted 4/15/2018 18:39 PM

There may be posts about this, but if so, I can't find them.


Anyone know of any books that specifically address LTA's?

I don't want to get into the 'which A is worse' olympics, as they are all bad, and all difficult.
And I believe that steps to heal/recover may be the same.

However, I do believe that processing my WH's 9yr+ LTA PA plus the 2-4 years (by his own admission) he "considered" having sex (which is >1/2 of our 24 year marriage - or 1/2 of the 27yr R) is different than other As. (not saying worse, just different to process - the thing that just goes over & over & over in my mind is "it went on for SO FUCKING LONG! Like it's bad enough they lie, deceive, have sex, etc.... but to do that for nearly a decade? WTH?).

I find too many of the examples in the books I've read (including Perel) and their successful 'antidotes' seem too remote to really relate to.

I love the SI thread - but the fact that there's only 1 thread for LTAs limits things......

anyone have any luck here? I'll talk to my IC next week too....

mlav69 posted 4/16/2018 14:04 PM

I haven't found any books or materials that I feel really speak specifically to LTA's. The closest thing I've found is some information about PISD (Post Infidelity Stress Disorder). That seems to touch on more of what I am personally dealing with. I think the reason there's not much out there is that a majority of spouses who encounter such deep and long-lasting betrayal probably leave the marriage. There are times when I wish that's what I had done. Maybe one of these days I'll get a wild hair and write a book myself. I'll need a catchy title though.....

Ideas???

amanda123 posted 4/16/2018 16:23 PM

At times I have felt a sense of guilt for complaining about him so much I have over 900 posts thats a lot of me venting mostly about him. I have often wondered what he would think or how he would feel knowing that? Then I think to hell with those thoughts because he never thought of me or my feelings during his LTA.

Its funny that you mentioned LTA books that might help gmc94, It was only last week that I thought about the same thing. I have read a couple of the books suggested here just on infidelity. I think there are such different category's they just touch on each one and not really indepth of LTAs. Please let us know if you find anything.

gmc94 posted 4/16/2018 21:16 PM

MLav69 and Amanda123 -

well, this sucks (and I fear I agree the dearth of books may be bc most folks don't try to R). I'm only 3 months out, but have a really hard time trying to "fit" all the 'examples' in the books or other literature to such a long LTA. It's so painful to look at such a LONG ASS time of deceit that colors everything for more than a decade (or longer really - last night I wanted my WH to tell me a story about a time when he loved me/felt proud. I'm thinking if he got to see his ego positively reflected in his AP, I'd like to see mine reflected in my WH. Started w/honeymoon, but he mentioned watching a wedding at the resort we were at... trigger city for me. I told him I thought of when I graduated from college in 2001 - I was pushing 40 at the time, and I know he was really proud, and I was too - my kids got to be there - but that's now shit too, because in 2001 my WH was finding a divorce attorney for his long term secret "friend" and future PA AP... tears... ugh).

I'll ask my IC, but doubt she'll have suggestions.

Titles....

"banging through the years... how to survive an LTA"?

"When your spouse is an Energizer bunny... he kept going & going & going for years"?

I was telling someone (who doesn't know my situation) about post infidelity stress disorder... and he said, so "pissed"? that's what it's called?

I needed that laugh that day

[This message edited by gmc94 at 9:24 PM, April 16th (Monday)]

mlav69 posted 4/17/2018 00:25 AM

Thatís it! Thatís the title - PIsSeD!!!! 😂😂😂Lololololol

There is absolutely nothing like the hell that is a LTA. Itís been 3.5 years and I feel so isolated and alone because I donít know a soul in real life who has dealt with this. I mean, I guess itís not the kind of thing people go around broadcasting to the world, right? Itís devastating and humiliating, not to mention physically and mentally destructive. Who wants to air that out in public? And on the other side of the coin, the people we DO tell either get burned out from trying to be supportive or they simply just donít have a clue what to say. Itís too heinous an issue to even know how to support someone.Thatís what Iíve found to be true about the few friends Iíve told. Theyíve basically left me high and dry and I have virtually no support system. Itís just too much of a burden. My 80-something year old parents donít need to worry about my bullshit, so I just pretend like everythingís fine around them. Our kids donít know, as theyíre both college students and donít need to worry about this bullshit either. Iíve seen 4 ICís and 1 MC - I am all talked out and still hitting the same brick wall over and over again. I just need someone to hug it out and cry with, someone whoís truly felt the same pain. I donít even know where to begin looking for such a friend.

[This message edited by mlav69 at 12:28 AM, April 17th (Tuesday)]

steadychevy posted 4/17/2018 08:26 AM

The pronunciation of the acronym for post infidelity stress disorder (PISD) is appropriate. I've used it myself when talking with friends.

I try not to weigh the different adultery scenarios but can't help feeling that the LTA is particularly heinous. I wonder, sometimes, what the R (real R not trapped R) rate is for the different types of adultery.

gmc94 posted 4/17/2018 23:29 PM

MLav69 - biggest baddest virtual hugs to you.

I don't have a relationship with my mother (long story), and when I'm in deep trigger cry (the fetal position, rocking, snot, the whole shebang - like a trance and a kind of crying I have never experienced. ever.) one thing that seems to now creep in is wishing I had a mom to hug and comfort me. It's just awful.
That loneliness and isolation.

I've told a friend who lives 2000 miles away; and a sister who lives close, but has no time for my problems (when she does, she's great, but I don't want to burn her out).

The only person in my life to hug me and provide that comfort is the person that did this - who selfishly stole every f*cking good memory of my M for more than a dozen years (and in some ways, for our entire M).
Stole my dignity.
Stole my self esteem.
Stole my heart.
And THAT'S who is supposed to comfort me? The man who lied to and deceived me forever (and continues to minimize, deflect, etc)?

Ok. Pity party is over....

"PISseD: how to survive a LTA w/o killing your spouse"

And SteadyChevy- you make a good point. I wonder about that too, though I'm not sure I really want to know the "odds"; if they are bad, how will it affect how I think about/approach R?

[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:35 PM, April 17th (Tuesday)]

steadychevy posted 4/18/2018 07:22 AM

gmc94, DD2 is so new and raw for you. This

(the fetal position, rocking, snot, the whole shebang - like a trance and a kind of crying I have never experienced. ever.)

plus puking until dry heaving is pretty normal. At least it was for me. It lasted quite some time but the frequency decreased and the duration of the "attack" shortened. I don't know the last time I had any of these but it has been a long time. I do believe it's something that your body and mind does to protect oneself. All of the poison needs to be expelled before it totally destroys you. Some people are totally destroyed, I believe. It's a built-in protective measure or safety override switch.

LTAs in long term marriages. Don't understand even yet. Can't explain it. What kind of mind can do this?

I probably shouldn't have put the "odds" comment in. It does lean towards suggesting futility. I don't want to discourage attempts at R. I believe in marriage, the sanctity and sacredness of it and life long commitment. I mourn that.

The WS has a heavy load to carry and a lot of work to do. No rugsweeping, no gaslighting, no minimizing, no lying, total transparency, openness and honesty, really being introspective, etc., etc. You'll have read that what happens after DDay is very important with regard to the possibility of R. Actions are so important.

My WW and I are separated and I've filed for D. I guess I'm jaded. Somewhere, maybe in Linda J. McDonald's book but probably in one of the other dozen or so I've now read, I read about the things a WS does that reduces the chances of R. My WW did many of them.

I apologize for raising that point. It wasn't constructive.

gmc94 posted 4/18/2018 14:33 PM

SteadyChevy -
I think about the odds already, so no harm there.

I read about the things a WS does that reduces the chances of R. My WW did many of them.

Me too on the puking - it's been a couple of weeks since it actually happened - but 3 days agao it was bad enough for me to get that metal taste in my mouth. It's just so hard to try and manage to get through a day w/o losing it.
I fear my WH still doesn't get it / no idea of the added harm of the defensiveness, TT, nonsensical B.S. answers, and all the "I don't recall" answers. I still wonder if I will ever get over the horror and shock of the level/length of his betrayal, that he sees as a few "insignificant" sexual trysts.

BC the OW lived 2000 miles away, they only had sex a handful of times.
But he doesn't see the endless phone calls, the texts he deleted, the making sure all communication was at work for DECADES (long before the PA began), and all the other acts of deceit (like finding her fucking divorce attorney, helping her buy a house in our city - the list goes on). He seems surprised at the depth of my pain.

I dunno. He's trying, but I feel myself withdrawing more & more every day. It seems to be a form of self preservation, but I'm not as good as I probably should be with detaching / worrying about him/his health.

His own fog (to use the SI term), defensiveness, refusal to admit/look at his decisions and their consequences seems to be too much for him - even when his M is at stake. There's more to this - I feel it in my bones (could be more women, more As, prostitutes, webporn, longer A, whatever, I am fully convinced there is more) - but I may be gone by the time he decides that full honesty is the best policy.

it's just so sad.


[This message edited by gmc94 at 2:38 PM, April 18th, 2018 (Wednesday)]

BrokenheartedWif posted 4/18/2018 16:10 PM

The WS has a heavy load to carry and a lot of work to do. No rugsweeping, no gaslighting, no minimizing, no lying, total transparency, openness and honesty, really being introspective, etc., etc. You'll have read that what happens after DDay is very important with regard to the possibility of R. Actions are so important.

And they are so FUBAR to have conducted Long Term Adultery in the first place, that it can take a long time for them to have a head-rectalectomy (removal of their head from their ass) and then they have to gain empathy etc.

It's more like an ultramarathon trying to survive and recovery and possible R.

I like PISD (Rising from the ashes of Long Term Adultery like a beautiful Phoenix, wither you stay or go) for the Long Term Adultery Survival book. And since they are FUBAR to have done this, could put a K-Bar knife on the cover covered in blood.

steadychevy posted 4/19/2018 08:15 AM

Yeah, I've got 2 K-Bars. One big and one small (small is just relative to the big - like Crocodile Dundee (cheater) it's a knife). Making kindling is easy.

mlav69 posted 4/19/2018 15:38 PM

So about the LTA book, I've been thinking about it for a few days now. I seriously want to write this book someday and truly make it about rising from the ashes of this kind of infidelity. Right now though, my own dumpster fire is still smoldering pretty intensely and I don't think I have enough perspective to be able to write effectively about how to pull oneself out of the grief and devastation. I could write plenty about all the things one feels and struggles with. I could write all about how infidelity of any length of time will touch every single molecule of a person's life and soul. And about how it can be like a death - the death of so many things: the marriage, trust, self-worth, one's ideals, one's faith. But since I'm still putting the pieces of my life back together almost four years out, I should probably do a little bit more learning and healing before I start giving the general public advice, know what I mean?

I do have a title for the chapter about Ddays though......

Hello Shit; Meet Fan

mlav69 posted 4/19/2018 15:41 PM

Oh, and a possible "working title" for the actual book someday too...

FUBAR - What Long Term Infidelity Will Do To Your Life

[This message edited by mlav69 at 3:44 PM, April 19th (Thursday)]

hopeandhealing posted 4/20/2018 22:36 PM

I do think LTA are very different to process than a ONS etc., not to minimize the betrayal associated with a ONS, but to volitionally choose to be with others for years...I still don't have my head around it and I am not sure I will.

gmc, I totally understand how you feel like so much of you M was a lie. My heart is so sad for you. My WH had 4 LTA, one with a friend of ours. They each lasted 12-18 months and were over the span of 12 years of our 21 year marriage. The last one ended 5 years ago, when I called him out on a text I read, which he explained away (and I trustingly believed), but I think scared the shit out of him. I got too close and the A ended (and maybe he finally grew up).

DD came as an accident through a benign comment made by a friend. In many ways, I wish I never knew, as the last 5 years have been good. However, as we all know, it can't be undone and now we must reconcile or process in some ways the horror which is associated with such betrayal.

Initially, everything I looked at was a trigger. My son's newborn pictures, wrecked because all I could see was the whore he was with at the time. Our wedding pictures, such joke. Vows meant nothing. I wanted so desperately to hide them all away so I wasn't triggered all the time, but that would have alerted my DS to there being a problem, and I wasn't willing to do that to him.

I had to change my internal dialogue and not allow his fucked up choices to wreck my history. I will not give him that power to destroy the happy memories I have of very precious times/photos etc. I feel like most of my M has been a sham, a lie. He has deceived me for 17 years...how do you forgive that? Do I want to?

His A were all about getting off. The woman knew this and were game, no strings attached. I can't comprehend that, but truthfully, that is the only reason I am still here. If there were strong emotions involved, he said I love you, evidence of time spent together (beyond that required to get the job done), dinners, movies, etc. I would be done, regardless of his remorse. He has worked hard in R, done a lot of soul searching, asked the hard questions and had to face the ugly answers.

There should be a book for us recovering from LTA. The grief is enormous and I suspect most of us feel like we wasted a huge portion of our lives in lies and deceit. That in itself is a hard place to be. In those moments, I think we have to remind ourselves of the good in those years. What came out of those years. It is easy to get caught up in the crap, but that is such a heavy burden to bear and we deserve better.

I can't change the past, but I can choose my future.

notoverit posted 4/20/2018 23:21 PM

The topic of LTA as a demise of current american culture is a great topic. the telling from the BS's view, from LTA to R has impact - go for it MLav69 - be our voice!

The good news is a year and half after DD my hives finally went away.

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