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Long Term Affairs Part 38

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steph posted 3/3/2018 13:05 PM

I haven't been on much for a while. Sometimes I check in and read posts to keep up with the conversations.

Lodestar, if I may. My H is the king of false R, having his cake and eating it too. His LTAs were over 12 years. First it was with a woman 18 years younger then there was some sort of extremely inappropriate relationship with her daughter who's in her early 20s. They both seemed to think it was his responsibility to support them financially while it's me who makes the larger salary. It's all sickeningly dysfunctional and was very sneaky, deceitful, selfish and cruel. Both these women have been homeless and they manipulated him into providing money for their shelter and food, and they like nice places and good food, then again, he agreed to do it like a knight in shining armor and I do not know everything.

There were periods of years when we were in false R and I didn't know it then I would either randomly snoop or something would blindside me.

I'm not sure how many false Rs there have been, maybe 3.

I regretted deeply that I didn't dump him the first time I found out. I've been hurt deeply by a man who is a master at deception.

Last summer was the end of my rope. I had thrown him out a few times last year and he kept coming back without my consent so then I made him stay in another part of our house.

How did I realize false R? Discoveries

What ended it, how did I end it? I had no control. It was up to him. He even lied to our counselors that he had given up contact as he had to agree to end contact for us to have marriage counseling. I found a phone and called the counselors. I continued IC and he went back to IC. This was July of last year.

I decided to divorce him. I moved to a different part of our house. My job demands so much of me emotionally and physically and time wise that I decided I would retire in July of 2018 and then divorce him. This way I could focus on me.

How it ended? He had a car accident. It was a serious accident. Anyone else in the car would have been killed without question. Four air bags and pure luck saved his life.

At the hospital while I was on his phone taking care of some business he insisted I do for him, the officer presented him with a phone that he'd found in the car. He thought he was doing him a favor. My H looked horrified because he knew that I knew that phone was his connection to her. He refused to give the phone to me.

I did my wifely duty of support and our kids all came together to help out. He had a realization and threw the phone away and cut off all ties. He said he had acted foolishly and that he had treated not only me terribly but our adult kids as well. They have no idea of his affair, but he has cheated them of family time and he's cheated them of being present when our family has been together.

What did HE do to change it into proper R. He went to his IC and worked on himself and WHAT HE COULD DO FOR ME to be a better man and better husband.

Our ICs work together and will do our MC as a team. He's ready to begin and we'll start again in April.

How is it different? He is PRESENT when we are with our kids. They all live far away so when we get to see them about every six weeks or so he is fully engaged.

He puts effort into being a team player at home. We do things together. We both work long hours, but I've always managed to make time for us, now he is doing it too. He's also paying attention to me and giving me the attention I deserve. I've told him what I needed for years and now he's actually following through. He knows the decision had been made to divorce and he is on delicate footing.

I don't trust him at all and wonder if this is another false R. If it is, then this is over.

I found IC to be a great help to me as I've kept all of this private so I wasn't talking to anyone about it and now I do. It's also helped me sort out what I want to do in this marriage and what I want to do in other areas of my life.

The people on this forum really encouraged me to go to IC last year and it has helped me greatly. We did do MC twice before with different counselors and they were not the right fit, basically for him. This time, with my IC and his IC, the fit works for him.

That's my weird story, certainly not what I wanted for my marriage or my life. I've worked my life to be a genuine, ethical, caring person and I'll continue to do that. His decisions are up to him. If he messes up, we are done.

steph posted 3/3/2018 13:05 PM

Whoops, double post!

[This message edited by steph at 1:06 PM, March 3rd (Saturday)]

Lodestar posted 3/3/2018 15:05 PM

Thanks Steph for sharing. I remember your story from some time ago. Must admit, you are one tough cookie. Way to go!

Just to clarify - I don't suspect WH is in contact with AP or is acting out in any other way. I just wouldn't call this thing we are doing R. Rather we are in limbo. So I'm just wondering how to turn things around. How to give R a proper go to see if it woulf change anything or not.

But thanks to everyone who has chimed in.

northeasternarea posted 3/3/2018 22:33 PM

Steph, glad you checked back in. You have been through so much.

Lodestar, I do believe that the devil is out to destroy marriages. Both of us had to work on our personal relationship with God.

Sibelserenity posted 3/4/2018 01:58 AM

Can someone please let me in on all these abbreviations. Dd.. we pa ect..

steadychevy posted 3/4/2018 07:08 AM

Sibelserenity, there's a list of abbreviations in the Healing Library. You can find it by clicking on The Healing Library found in the yellow box at the top left hand corner of these pages.

DD usually means darling daughter. DDay means DDay (Discovery Day). PA is physical affair or physical adultery.

gmc94 posted 3/8/2018 00:54 AM

Anyone successful R from 9yr (+/-) LTA?

I posted on another forum and someone suggested I head here (but honestly find it difficult to weed through 126 pgs of thread on all topics related to LTAs).

Long story (aren't they all?) but 8 weeks out from DDay of an 8+yr LTA with a former girlfriend my WH kept secret from me for our entire 27yr relationship (23yrs married). Was non-sex "lunch" for 17 years, then turned PA in 2008 (while we were on vacation in her city - I'm with kids an hour away while he's at a conference).
Because she lived in another state, had sex every 6-24 months when she'd come to town (My sister lives- and our son attended college - in city where OW lives, but WH denies any other contact with OW in her city despite SEVERAL trips there over past 20 yrs).
2017, she moves to our city. Last sex was 9/30/17, when he says he'd decided to stop the PA... but then has lunch with her on 12/13, they have a fight over politics & he texts her he wanted to give her a hug and they should get together after the new year (doesn't sound like he was really ending it).
Jan 2017 OW texts me and tells me they had PA in early 90s (when WH & I dated, after married, but stopped after our daughter was born bc it was an "ethical" thing for her), but he's tried to sleep with her for last 20 years and she's refused. I confront WH and learn OW was lying about timeline (I'm a lawyer - I'm good at getting stuff out of folks, so I do believe him in this regard). When WH confronted her (without me present), she said she told me about affair bc she was pissed at him over their fight about politics - there's more to that I'm sure, but will probably never really know what set her off.
Bottom line - she's an old girlfriend he dated in late 70s/early 80s but maintained a "friendship" with ever since. I THOUGHT he'd told me about all past loves (many of whom were invited to our wedding); but he conveniently kept this one secret for TWENTY SEVEN YEARS!
WH wants to R. I'm not so sure.
This is NOT his first transgression.
He cheated on me when we were engaged. Alcohol driven fight, he split and went to a massage parlor where he got a BJ; I found the receipt, confronted, forgave. Sweated it a bit when first married. By 10-yr mark, I had some suspicions about a COW, confronted (he denied), and moved on. I have not had even the slightest suspicion about him for at least a decade - not even a tremble - EVER. So this came as a total shock (silly me for thinking a marriage would hit a point of solid mass that it wasn't in the field of sight).
He also cheated on prior lovers (he was mid 30s when we met; had a couple of "serious" relationships, none lasting more than 4 years, never lived with anyone).
Since DDay, he's said he's looked back and ALL of his relationships have involved infidelity - either his or his [then]partner's. I've never so much as looked at another man (in fact, I've been "hit on" several times in last 5 years, and ALWAYS called him immediately - because [again, silly me], I would feel guilty if another man kissed me!!!!)
WH says he wants R; that it was NEVER going to be anything he'd leave me for (now thinks its conflict avoidance, but he's not the most self enlightened soul, so I'm gonna give it time for him to jump to the next explanation - suspect there will be several). But I'm not sure I want to R. I think I will ultimately be able to forgive (at least it's not totally ruled out), but ....
1. I don't respect him - don't see being married to someone I cannot respect
2. I just cannot see getting over how someone can lie and cheat and deceive for such a long time. It's just so inconceivable to me. I can better imagine why a person murders their own child than I can even try to imagine how someone does something like this.
3. I am a very strong woman working in a man's world. My nickname is "badass" (literally). I feel the A is sabotage of my success and strengths - and that I'm forced to choose between my marriage and my identity (and if it's me vs it, I kind of think I prefer me). Don't get me wrong - he's not a slouch and has been successful, is the primary breadwinner, etc - he does wear the pants in the family.
4. He continued A even after our daughter was (a) institutionalized for some hefty mental health issues (ADHD, self harm, depression); (b) raped the 1st time; (c) raped the 2nd time; (d) institutionalized a 2nd time (now with addition of PTSD from sexual assaults), and doesn't seem to "get" that he didn't just cheat on me - he cheated on our family. In fact, if we do D, I have concerns that I would have to lie about the reason, as I am not sure that her fragile mental state could survive knowing her hero/daddy has been a decade-long cheater. And it's not better for "our" (really my) son, whose biological father is a convicted pedophile who probably also sodomized our son at age 5 (gee, we sound like such a great family!)
5. He was in therapy early in our marriage (FOO issues), and then again about 3-4 years ago when forced by some problems at work (not sexual - or so he says; I now worry that may have been a lie too)... how can someone see a therapist and not feel a PA is something to talk about????
6. I have SERIOUS concerns about my financial future. I'm well educated, but working a govt job that pays <25% of his income; the job ends in 2 yrs and my financial future is uncertain even if we R.
7. At my age, I recognize the odds are not good that I will find another life "partner". But I'm not sure I want to be a "partner" who was willing to commit a fraud for the entire partnership (albeit only 1/2 of which was PA).

we are in MC; it took him a month after Dday, but he is in IC (tho it honestly feels like another place where he can go and tell secrets)
This week has been a pretty good one (last Thurs I cried more in one day than I probably had in the last decade; I think the forums are helpful to combat the obsessive thoughts, triggers, and fantasies about telling every friend the OW has on FB about what a gem of a person she is.... did I mention her significant other throughout this time is ALSO married? Or that she and my husband had sex 6-12 months after they broke up in the 80s and as she was leaving she mentioned she had gotten married in the interim [another little tidbit he failed to mention during our 27yrs together]) I don't know why it feels helpful to write out the story, but it does.

Anyone have experience with this type of intermittent, but LONG LTA?
successful recovery?
he's doing the best he can with the apologies, but it's like pulling teeth to get facts about A from him - it is getting better, but talk about slow/tedious/exhausting!
He's always been a good husband to me - he cooks/household stuff, likes romance, is reasonably attentive, etc. I just don't see how that makes up for such deceit/betrayal for such a LONG LONG LONG time.

honesttoafault posted 3/8/2018 19:14 PM

gmc: I have been through a LTA for over 16-17 years (never really found out the length), and like you, many, many false R's.

It can be too much to process everything.

I found that I ended up getting so concerned with the "trees" that I didn't really look at the "forest". I would be concentrated on all the details, that I didn't see the big picture. I was so engrossed in so many little things.

Like you, I found that there were so many good things that I put up with some horrible stuff living on crumbs that became less and less.

stbxWh#2 cheated on gf's before he met me, and he admitted with the last false R, that the gf he said he broke up with before he met me, he never actually broke up with, so in essence, I was an OW!!! She actually broke up with him when she found out he married me, and I had no idea!! This was over 25 years ago, and I didn't know.

WH would promise the moon, stars and sun, sometimes acted so wonderfully, then another dday.

Finally, another OW, and I had enough. Being away from him has finally allowed me to see the whole picture, and although I am going to be financially destitute, I had no other choice.

You need to step back as much as possible and see the whole picture. Don't sell yourself short like I did over the financials, don't let that be the deciding factor. Don't focus on whether or not you will be able to meet someone new. Peace of mind and not being stressed over whether or not he is cheating, whether it's yet another false R, or if he will cheat in the future is soooo freeing and calming.

I love my husband, and always will, even though he shattered me and would continue to shatter me, but I found I couldn't live like that anymore.

True R is a lot of work. Recovering from a LTA is even more work. It's not just a mistake, but a long term pattern of lies and cheating.

Lazarus posted 3/15/2018 18:27 PM

Does a 7.5 month* EA/PA qualify as a LTA?


* as far as I know

Mickeymom posted 3/16/2018 21:34 PM

I think you could call it that. I donít really know any parameter many of us here were 2 or more years but LTA short term one night itís all betrayal itís all pain.

donna3 posted 3/17/2018 20:52 PM

Hi ladies. It has been a while since I posted but I try to come back to read every few weeks. Sometimes it is still painful to visit this site as it brings back so many feelings. I am almost 4.5 years out from dday. I still have my bad moments but I can usually talk my way thru it fairly quickly. The LTA part of this whole mess really kicked my ass. The lies, the ILY's, the thousands of phone calls, texts, FB messages, sex over 100 times, many hotel sleepovers just really messed with my mind. Sometimes I still wonder, " was (fill in the blank) better with her?" My self esteem and confidence is back, but never really 100%. She was younger, thinner, firmer, etc and I am now in my sixties and she will forever stay 45. The first two years were pure hell and I cried so much I literally broke my ears. They now cry too when I cry.

I wanted to save my marriage from the get go. I did so much wrong in the beginning because I did not find SI for almost a year. I was so naive to the ways of a cheater I wanted to believe so much he told me that I did not realize that liars continue to lie. Not about the big stuff but anything he thought would upset the delicate balance I was trying to establish. It took a long time to get to all the real truths. I wanted to make this work. But so much depended on what my H was going to do. I reevaluated at 6 month intervals as best I could. Finally I had all the information.

My H is now the model remorseful H. Daily he thanks me for the gift of R. He thanks me for saving his life, twice. Once bc I got him to the hospital quickly when he was having a heart attack one year into R and the other for my willingness to let him stay and allow him to show me that he can be the man he wants to see in the mirror. He was on a path of self destruction at the time of his A: depression, self loathing, drinking and the A. By allowing him to stay he realized that there is someone who sees good in him, who was willing to give him a chance to get back on track ti being a good person.

I also had to work on the M. Things had gone sideways (but I never thought enough that he would do what he did). I was totally blindsided and his betrayal hit me very hard. It took a good 3.5 years to get to the point where I felt somewhat normal again.

Now our M is very loving and we make sure that the love languages of the other are being met. We work on our M all the time. I really like this new guy - he is even better than the man I originally married. We have a much better understanding of what it takes to be a good partner.

Do I trust 100% that this will ever happen again? No, but it is highly unlikely. I am wiser now too and know what to look for. And H knows that my love is now conditional and one screw up and I won't let the door hit him in the ass on the way out.

So, for those of you in the midst of this LTA mess and wondering can it ever get better again? yes it can but it takes a lot of work - most of it falls on your WS. And you have to be able to heal yourself. That is something it took me a long time to figure out. There has to be no more lies. Communication needs to take place. And a willingness to lay it all out in the open, the good and the bad.

Good luck to all of you, whatever path you take. Figure out what YOU want and what you want out of your WS. They have to be wiling to do the lions share of the work. And if the only way out of this for you is to part ways, then so be it. You need to find happiness in the end, with our without the. I was lucky in that it was with.

Forevermore posted 3/17/2018 22:56 PM

Thanks Donna3 for the post! It was a nice to read your post. I am glad to hear that there is light at the end of this tunnel. I myself am only 1 year 7 months out! I feel like it's been an eternity, and I have the new wrinkles and white hair to prove it, but I know I'm just a baby in the recovery process. So it's nice to hear from someone father down the line! Thanks

Bstrom posted 3/22/2018 13:14 PM

Donna3, thank you for your post. I am very new in my journey to peace and happiness. What you wrote hit home to me and I thank you, it is something I needed to hear today, as I am feeling like I am in a black hole.

God Bless you and your continued happiness. I hope to one day get to the place you are.

needfriendshere posted 3/25/2018 01:58 AM

Itís been a while since Iíve been here. Welcome to those who are new to this thread. May you find some comfort and reassurance here. I know I have!

It is good to hear how well you are doing, Donna3. Iím also over 4 years from Dday. And itís been quite a ride with a lot of ups and downs. Currently H and I are trying to make it work again after a trial separation. That came after I found out H is working with a woman he was pursuing before hooking up with OW. Theyíve been working together for a year and he didnít think to tell me. I found out by discovering emails between them. In them, she was often flirtatious. He wasnít, but he was still on a slippery slope.

Now H is in IC and is - I hope - learning proper boundaries and what it means to be totally transparent to me, his wife. And heís dealing with his issues. Itís the only way I could take him back. Weíve started over in many respects. We had to. Weíre in separate bedrooms, but we are dating, talking things out, and even cuddling when the mood hits us. But not much more. Not yet.

LTAís are brutal. It may take a lifetime to completely establish trust again. But as long as our FWSís are willing to do all they need to if or when they stumble or fall, there is always hope. I have not given up on my H or on my M. We have 29 years together and two beautiful sons to show for it. But honestly? God help us all. Ours is not an easy road. Hugs to you all!!

[This message edited by needfriendshere at 2:00 AM, March 25th (Sunday)]

northeasternarea posted 3/25/2018 07:50 AM

I can see that my WHís boundaries are much improved. He has done so much work on himself. Heís transparent. We have weathered challenges together. We donít talk much about the affair anymore. Life is good, we work well as a team. But something is still missing. I decided to return to IC. Maybe itís my lack of being all in. Is good enough really good enough?

needfriendshere posted 3/25/2018 21:30 PM

Northeasternarea,
You asked:

Is good enough really good enough?

That's something we each need to determine on our own. My H would say that what he is doing now is good enough for us to get over the past and live happily ever after. And we are, once again, in R. So, for him, what we have is good enough. Is it good enough for me? Well, I'm still here! So I would have to say, "yes, for now...."

Insearchofme posted 3/25/2018 22:03 PM

Hi everyone, Iím not sure where to begin or if this is the right place for this post. Iím stuck. I feel stuck. Thereís a part of me that wishes he had left me for the OW. He is the model H now. But Iím broken. Iím hardened. Iím here in this marriage because of kids and family, but if Iím being honest..Iím still here out of fear. Fear of what my life would look like. We have a good life. Before A we had a good life. It wasnít perfect. I think we both felt a bit empty in the passion dept but compare to other friends we knew, it was the normal. For me, status quo was ok. I had the kids, made the vows and commitments so even if I didnít feel the sparks anymore, I wasnít going anywhere. We were good. But I guess not so much for him. But once it all came out, H did 180 and has tried to be the best H ever. Problem is, still no sparks for me, and Iím resentful, he got to go out and have sparks with someone else! He got to feel again all of those things. What if I wanted those things too? But Iím still here...but now Iím just feeling stuck.. Anyone else relate to this? What do I do? Iím turning 51 soon,,,not the way I expected this phase of my life to be looking..

northeasternarea posted 3/26/2018 09:49 AM

So I would have to say, "yes, for now...."

That's pretty much where I am. i feel like I am always evaluating.

needfriendshere posted 3/26/2018 10:01 AM

Insearchofme,
Your post did resonate with me. I canít lie. Throughout these 4 years of R, there have been times Iíve felt stuck too. Like I had no other option but to try to make it work with an H who had hurt me beyond anything I could imagine. And for what? A piece on the side?

But even at our lowest points - we actually hit another about a month or so ago - I still knew that, not too deep inside, Iíd be more unhappy without him than with him. Flaws and all. Maybe itís partly because, while heís been working on himself, Iíve had the opportunity to really examine my self. And what I saw often wasnít very pretty. Iím deeply flawed too. I also keep coming back to the fact that my commitment to our M meant and still means something to me.

Iíve accepted the fact that H and I will never be as happy as we could have been if he hadnít cheated. And thereís this uninvited third party that may always be lingering on the sidelines. OW has not given up. But itís still better than what my life would be like without him.

Our sons want us to be together and theyíre worth 10 of him. And after 29 years, I just am not ready to start over. Iím tired. I do love H, but never as much as I used to. Maybe that love we once had will come back. I hope so. I just know that Iím not stuck. Iím living the best life I can right now. And I keep hoping that, in time, it will be real good again.

I wish you the best. (((Insearchofme)))

northeasternarea posted 3/26/2018 10:23 AM

needfriendshere, so glad you popped back in.

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