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Support Through Prayer ...Part 3

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rosie437 posted 5/1/2017 16:22 PM

Thank you so much PinkJeepLady & needsfriends here - the last couple of days have been some of the hardest I've had in a long time. I believe strongly that God has a plan for me and my future - and that it's a bright one! But sometimes it's hard to remember that. My ex has been really mean lately - worse the last few months. It sounds weird but sometimes I wonder if that's even part of God's plan...saying goodbye to a mean bully is legitimately easier. I certainly wish I felt more peace about this, but I think I'll get there. Thank you all for the support and prayers - they mean so much! God bless!

hopefull77 posted 5/2/2017 07:40 AM

Good Morning....
This is from my Daily Devotional...thought I would share

Avoiding Transformation
Tuesday, May 2, 2017
 
It seems we always find some way to avoid the transformation of our pain. There’s the common way of fight. Fighters are looking for the evildoer, the sinner, the unjust one, the oppressor, the bad person “over there.” He or she “righteously” attacks, hates, or even kills the wrong-doer, while feeling heroic for doing so (see John 16:2). We are all tempted to project our problem on someone or something else rather than dealing with it in ourselves.
The zealot—and we’ve all been one at different times—is actually relieved by having someone to hate, because it takes away our inner shame and anxiety and provides a false sense of innocence. As long as the evil is “over there” and we can keep our focus on changing or expelling someone else (as the contaminating element), then we feel at peace. But this is not the peace of Christ, which “the world cannot give” (see John 14:27).
Playing the victim is another way to deal with pain indirectly. You blame someone else, and your pain becomes your personal ticket to power because it gives you a false sense of moral superiority and outrage. You don’t have to grow up, let go, forgive, or surrender—you just have to accuse someone else of being worse than you are. And sadly, that becomes your very fragile identity, which always needs more reinforcement.
The other common way to avoid the path of transformation is the way of flight or denial. It can take many forms. Those with the instinct to flee will often deny or ignore pain by naively dividing the world up through purity codes and worthiness systems. They keep the problem on the level of words, ideas, and absolute laws separating good and evil. They refuse to live in the real world of shadow and paradox. They divide the world into total good guys and complete bad guys, a comfortable but untrue worldview of black and white. This approach comprises most fundamentalist and early stage religion. It refuses to carry the cross of imperfection, failure, and sin in itself. It is always others who must be excluded so I can be pure and holy. Denial is an understandable—but false—way of coping and surviving. Yet it is often the only way that many people can deal with the complexity of their human situation.
All of these patterns perpetuate pain and violence rather than bringing true healing. Jesus took the more difficult path: to know the depths of suffering and sin and yet to forgive reality for being what it is. That is the Third Way, beyond fight and flight, and yet in a subtle sense including both of them. Only the Spirit can teach us the paradox of Jesus’ death and resurrection, the pattern of all growth, change, and transformation. It is equally hard to trust both sides—the dying itself and the promised new state.
 

northeasternarea posted 5/2/2017 07:47 AM

Thank you for sharing this.

hopefull77 posted 5/3/2017 07:56 AM

Another thought for today....

Forgiving Victim
Wednesday, May 3, 2017
 
In terms of the soul, no one else is your problem. You are invariably your primary problem. You are always the locus of conversion and transformation. I believe the message of the crucified Jesus is a statement about what to do with your pain. It’s primarily a message of transformation, and not a transaction to “open the gates of heaven,” unless you are talking about being drawn into heaven right now. For some unfortunate reason, Christians have usually “used” Jesus as a mere problem solver, one who would protect us personally from pain later. That kept us in a very small, self-centered world. The big loss was that we missed Jesus’ message of how to let God transform us and our world here and now.
The book of Revelation presents the paradoxical image of a Lamb who is simultaneously slaughtered and standing, victim and victorious at the same time (see Revelation 5:6 and throughout). This is the transformative mystery in iconic form. We must put together these two seeming opposites in our own life.
Was God trying to solve a problem through what looked like the necessary death of Jesus? Or was God trying to reveal something central about the nature of God? Christians have historically taught that God was saving us from our sins. Maybe an even better way to say it is that Jesus was saving us through our sins. As Paul says with great subtlety, Jesus “became sin that we might become the very goodness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). In other words, Jesus becomes the problem to show us how to resolve the problem.
We are generally inclined to either create victims of others or play the victim ourselves, both of which are no solution but only perpetuate the problem. Jesus instead holds the pain—even becomes the pain—until it transforms him into a higher state, which we rightly call the risen life.
The crucified and resurrected Jesus shows us how to do this without denying, blaming, or projecting pain elsewhere. In fact, there is no “elsewhere.” Jesus is the victim in an entirely new way because he receives our hatred and does not return it, nor does he play the victim for his own empowerment. We find no self-pity or resentment in Jesus. He never asks his followers to avenge his murder. He suffers and does not make others suffer because of it. He does not use his suffering and death as power over others to punish them, but as power for others to transform them.
Jesus is the forgiving victim, which really is the only hope of our world, because most of us sooner or later will be victimized on some level. It is the familiar story line of an unjust and often cruel humanity. The cross is a healing message about the violence of humanity, and we tragically turned it into the violence of God, who we thought needed "a sacrifice" to love us.
An utterly new attitude (Spirit) has been released in history; it’s a spirit of love, compassion, and forgiveness. As Jesus prayed on the cross, “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).

SMG1986 posted 5/8/2017 22:38 PM

Has anyone successfully reonciled with the support of Celebrate Recovery? WH and I both started attending and every meeting I go to I feel more hopeful we can make it... but all the days in between meetings the enemy gets in my head constantly. Prayers and advice welcome.

needfriendshere posted 5/9/2017 01:06 AM

SMG1986,
For those of us who don't know, please explain what Celebrate Recovery is. Thanks so much!!

SMG1986 posted 5/9/2017 07:59 AM

Celebrate Recovery is a Christ-centered Recovery prog am that utilizes the 12step approach but focuses on Jesus and scripture. It is for addicts, codependents, adult children with trauma from childhood, anger, grief, depression, and any other hurt, habit, hang-up.

needfriendshere posted 5/9/2017 22:41 PM

Thank you!

SMG1986 posted 5/13/2017 16:57 PM

Polygraph vs trusting in God to reveal the truth- thoughts?

PinkJeepLady posted 5/14/2017 22:51 PM

On the polygraph question, I believe that it could be very helpful in some situations. I sure thought about it but ended up not requiring my FWH to get one. I am at peace with that. I think it could be a useful tool to help get to the truth. It sure could be an answer to prayer.

For me, the truth came out in a variety of ways, all which seemed to have Gods hand involved. I felt I was also spared from some details that I would have had difficulty with. In looking back I believe God lead me to discover the truth, which began the whole process.

Is there a piece you feel is missing? Do you think your spouse is hiding something? Why not suggest a polygraph and see what happens?

Praying for you to find what you need to know in a way that works for you!

needfriendshere posted 5/15/2017 00:21 AM

A Polygraph is helpful when trust is difficult to re-establish because your FWS keeps slipping up. Or because trickle truth simply won't stop trickling in. In my case, it marked a very positive turning point in our R. H has been pretty transparent since he agreed to undergo one.

Best of luck to you!!

steadychevy posted 5/16/2017 08:37 AM

I had my WW do a polygraph. There had been so much TT I didn't know if she had revealed everything. She had lied so convincingly I couldn't believe her when she assured me she had revealed all. I personally know a person through a betrayed support group (BAN) whose husband did the parking lot confession and there are stories on SI of the same happening. Others on SI have said they feel if you have to use a polygraph to know if your WS is telling the truth that there is enough trust to R.

I needed to have her do the poly. It was to be a confirmation of what she had finally told me. You only get 3 or 4 carefully crafted and explained questions that can only be answered "yes" or "no". It cost over $600 here in Alberta and I feel it was worth it.

I believe God helps those who help themselves. I don't think you can just passively sit back and pray God will do such and such for you. I think you need to be a warrior. I know about leaving things in God's hands but believe God wants me to be an active "son".

You know the joke about a man who didn't heed warnings of massive flooding approaching, then refusing evacuation on ground and by helicopter only to perish. When asking in Heaven why God hadn't answered his prayers he was told of the three things that had happened as efforts to save him which he ignored. You need to be proactive, IMO.

From that standpoint, I think the decision around a polygraph should be put forward to God in prayer. Getting a poly is being proactive and taking part in your pathway of your own life. What if your WS fails? What will be your next step. What if they pass an answer that reveals something more than you knew - a question you were expecting a "no" answer to but got a "yes". Something like "have you had any contact of any kind with AP since (insert time or event)".

I believe God answers prayers. I think my prayers have been answered more times than I can count. Sometimes (maybe many times) in ways I wasn't expecting but turned out better. I also think God doesn't want passive puppets. He wants active warriors.

thatbpguy posted 5/16/2017 09:05 AM

Polygraph vs trusting in God to reveal the truth- thoughts?

Trusting in God is always proper. That said, it matters not about the polygraph. That is neither right or wrong- simply a preference and/or a tool to aide the situation.

rosie437 posted 5/16/2017 09:46 AM

I believe God answers prayers. I think my prayers have been answered more times than I can count. Sometimes (maybe many times) in ways I wasn't expecting but turned out better. I also think God doesn't want passive puppets. He wants active warriors.

I love this and completely agree!

My exH did a poly without telling me as a way to 'prove how honest he was'. Seeing the questions that he asked himself taught me a lot about who he was and what he was hiding still. It's a helpful tool - if it will help you, use it.

hopefull77 - thank you for sharing your devotionals, they were helpful for me today!

ETA: I also believe strongly that God will show you the truth if you're open to it. I've had many instances of what I believe to be God's intervention on showing me what I needed to know - even when it's painful.

[This message edited by rosie437 at 9:50 AM, May 16th (Tuesday)]

WhatsRight posted 5/16/2017 10:04 AM

On the subject of "Polygraph, or trusting God for the answers" I have this to respectfully add....

Faith by its very definition is not fact based. For some, that means it is not real.

Not for me. But it does mean that to "depend" on your faith for these type of specific answers means you have to put a great deal of "faith" or confidence in your ability to "read" and accept the answers God is giving you.

I feel your pain of wanting to know.

When my H and I were trying to have children, and hit closed doors in every direction it seemed - fertility meds, pregnancy, miscarriage, adoption setbacks, etc. - we were ready to do whatever was the will of God in our lives.

But it's the knowing - and I mean KNOWING - what His will is that is so hard.

I wanted a sharpie on the wall.

I wanted to know if the closed doors meant that it was not His will that we have a family. OR if it was like testing our perseverance and resolve to face whatever storm to have the family we wanted.

We decided it was a test of our perseverance. But is that really true? Or was it just what we really wanted, so we interpreted our situation with that slant.

We will never know.

So, I guess my belief is that it is not an indication of weak belief or faith to want to use a polygraph any more than it is a sign of weak faith to use a heart monitor or telephone.

JMHO

Nrg18 posted 5/20/2017 20:22 PM

Any Mormons out there? My husband has lost his faith. In our religion we believe in eternal marriages. He has lost his beliefs and it is devestating to me.

PM me if you don't mind. I could use a friend right now.

hopefull77 posted 5/27/2017 08:58 AM

todays reflection

Practice: Trust the River
Grace and mercy teach us that we are all much more than the good or bad stories we tell about ourselves. These self-made identities are based on hurts and unconscious agendas that allow us to see and judge things in a very selective way. Strangely, your real life is not about “you.” It is part of a much larger stream.
The Spirit is described as “flowing water” and as “a spring inside you” (John 4:10-14), a “river of life” (Revelation 22:1-2). Faith is trusting the Big River of God’s providential love, which is to trust the visible embodiment (the Son), the flow (the Holy Spirit), and the source itself (the Father). This is a divine process that we don’t have to change, coerce, or improve. We just need to allow and enjoy it. That takes immense confidence, especially when we’re hurting.
Usually, I can feel myself get panicky. Then I want to quickly make things right. I lose my ability to be present, ignoring my body and heart while my mind is obsessing. I’m oriented toward goals and making things happen, trying to push or even create my own river. Yet the Big River already flows through me and I am only one small part of it.
Faith does not need to push the river precisely because it is able to trust that there is a river. The river is flowing; we are already in it. So do not be afraid. We have been given the Spirit by a very proactive God. Jesus understands this gift as a foregone conclusion: “If you, who are evil, know how to give your children what is good, how much more will the heavenly Father give you the Holy Spirit?” (Luke 11:13).
Simone Weil said, “Grace fills empty spaces but it can only enter where there is a void to receive it, and it is grace itself which makes this void.” [1] Grace leads us to the state of emptiness, to that momentary sense of meaninglessness in which we ask, “What is it all for? What does it all mean?” All we can do is try to keep our hands cupped and open. And it is even grace to do that. But we must want grace and know we need it.
Ask yourself regularly, “What am I afraid of? Does it matter? Will it matter at the end or in the great scheme of things? Is it worth holding on to?” Grace will lead us into such fears and emptiness, and grace alone can fill them up, if we are willing to stay in the void. We mustn’t engineer an answer too quickly. People of deep faith develop a high tolerance for ambiguity and come to recognize that it is only the small self that needs constant certitude or order. The Godself is perfectly at home in the River of Mystery.
 
Gateway to Silence:
By grace I am saved.

Merida posted 5/29/2017 08:37 AM

thank you hopeful... poignant for me on so many levels since my mom died the 27th

also poignant it's the feast of the ascension so that's an awesome coincidence

she chose to not go to the hospital for her heart attack so it is for us kids (all grown) a hard choice of hers to accept as my youngest sibs have really little kids that now won't have a grandma lap to cuddle upon

so much for plans to return to ireland for their 50th anniversary next year

All we can do is try to keep our hands cupped and open

Thy will be done. All praise and glory and honor and I am truly humbled to have been born into my family this day

She was deeply empathic sometimes unhealthy and struggled to not project her own failure as a mom upon watching both myself and my sister's marriages implode these last three years


I struggle knowing I celebrated my last mother's day for a truly troubled/amazing vessel

Only the Spirit can teach us the paradox of Jesus’ death and resurrection, the pattern of all growth, change, and transformation. It is equally hard to trust both sides—the dying itself and the promised new state.

Now given the choice of two forms of "death", I am happier to grieve the death of my unhealthy marriage as I can shape a positive healthy relationship more fully aware heretoforward

heck of a way to get perspective this weekend

peace to you all as we work to transform our perceptions to live with the grey, be fully open to give and receive grace and forgiveness and truly sail this mighty river - life

[This message edited by Merida at 8:41 AM, May 29th (Monday)]

hopefull77 posted 5/30/2017 19:01 PM

I am sorry for the loss of your mother Merida...I am happy you found comfort in some of the words from this post...
I will pray for you and tour family!
peace

CharliB posted 6/4/2017 18:35 PM

I definitely believe in the power of prayer.
So glad to see a forum for this! I am asking everyone I know to pray for me! I believe that is what will help most. I just need the strength to get through the next day/hour/minute

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