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Double Betrayal

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Freebygrace posted 2/26/2015 11:34 AM

I think it is possible to reconcile with a double betrayal. You get rid of the "friend" and focus on the marriage. I think just getting past an A is very difficult. I feel like my happiness was stolen from me, and although I remain in the marriage and I keep breathing, I am never ever happy and carefree.

14 years from Dday, I don't care about the OW, ex friend, anymore.

Now, my question is: Why would my WH want to be with someone who could treat their friend that way? While I was being sweet to the OW, giving her money so her kids could have Christmas, being there for her during her D, and baby sitting her kids, SHE was being so two faced! She was acting nice to me when we would all 3 go out to breakfast after sitting together in church, and then she would tell my WH that they could get custody of my kids and get married.

IF I ever cheated on my WH with his friend, and I saw the friend treating my Wh this way, I would NOT want to be continuing a relationship with him.

How can they want to be with someone who can treat a "friend" this way?

jackie89 posted 2/26/2015 12:03 PM

I think just getting past an A is very difficult. I feel like my happiness was stolen from me, and although I remain in the marriage and I keep breathing, I am never ever happy and carefree.

FreebyGrace - I feel sad for you, it's one thing to decide to forgive and reconcile - nothing wrong with that, but quite another to say that that you are never happy or carefree - for 14 years!!! Is this how you choose to live the rest of your life?

Freebygrace posted 2/26/2015 12:50 PM

No, I wish I wasn't in this situation. I feel like a dog trapped in a cage and I keep looking for a hole, a way out but there isn't one.

We have 16 children together from 25- 1 yr. I homeschool them. I have a degree in elem ed. and a nursing degree, but I didn't keep up with the continuing ed in either one. I have tried to figure out how to get them reactivated, but I would have to start over from the beginning on the nursing degree, and it has been so long since the elem ed degree that I am out of the loop on the new teaching methods. I never received my teaching certificate but passed the Excet test (24 years ago). I don't think I can even get the certificate back.

So, I have 13 children still living at home. My husband makes very good money through his company and we have everything we need plus lots of extras like music lessons and my kids all swim competitively ($400 a month). They would lose all of that. Plus, I would lose seeing them 1/2 of holidays. I would have to go to work and put them in public school which would be a nightmare for them. Plus I wouldn't be with them as much. I would have 4 under 5 who would need daycare.

I can't figure out how to get out of the marriage without ruining their lives.

trustedg posted 2/26/2015 13:57 PM

Now, my question is: Why would my WH want to be with someone who could treat their friend that way? While I was being sweet to the OW,...
My question too. The OW ("friend") came to my house, sat in my chair, ate my food, drank my wine, all while she was screwing my husband. I baby sat her child while she was screwing my H.

Freebygrace posted 2/26/2015 14:06 PM

Exactly!! Are they not able to look at it subjectively? Here is a person ( OW) who would attack their friend who has done nothing to them except help them.

If I had a dog that attacked innocent bystanders, I would put them down.

I don't understand how a BH can look at his wife, the woman he married, his bride, the mother of children, and watch her while her friend betrays her and tears her to shreds. It makes me wonder if someone were stabbing me, would he stop them?

jackie89 posted 2/26/2015 14:34 PM

Freebygrace, I'm sorry you are that situation, and I apologize if I came across judgmental - that was not my intention. I agree in your situation, it is a very difficult, just not impossible. Plus your WH will have to pay child support for all the kids still living at home, and spousal support. Get informed through a lawyer, knowledge is power.

No one deserves to live unhappy for the rest of their lives.

bionicgal posted 2/26/2015 14:41 PM

Free- the only answer to "why" is there is no rational reason. I have asked my H, don't you even get mad for me, on occasion - that a friend treated me so terribly? But really, he just looks at his own responsibility.

The decision to cheat is not a rational weighing of options. If it were, it wouldn't happen so much and we'd all be on a board learning how to knit or something. She was broken, he was broken, and their broken found each other. So - it actually does make sense.

wolf_heart posted 2/26/2015 15:15 PM

I will say things that the OW said to me and why would she say them that way, lies basically. All WH does says is he can't speak for other people. He can't speak for other people. That irritates me to no end. Can't he be mad as hell at how she and others treated me? No, he just says he can't speak for them with no emotions showing on his face. I wish for once I could see him get mad as hell at how OW and others have treated me.

I suppose it comes to respect. He still doesn't respect me. If he did then he would want to be my champion and be mad that anyone would hurt me. Either that or he has feelings for her still and can't be mad at her out of loyalty. I wish he had some loyalty to me.

Freebygrace- good luck with your situation. We all deserve happiness. I have moments of happiness. They are usually short-lived because of what WH did.

somanyyears posted 3/2/2015 09:58 AM


..certainly one of the major sore points is 'how does the WS stand by and allow the BS's friend to betray them and actually encourage it... for 18 years???

..would they standby and watch the 'friend' abuse your children? ..steal money? ..beat your dog?

..they actually took an active role in destoying our marriage , our family and our peace of mind.

..they participated in the destruction of trust and respect for all that was supposed to be good in our marriage and the friendship.

destruction of the most core values we hold in life.

..it defies comprehension that our spouse could be a party to this ..and with a friend, no less!

..and now...I'm supposed to be happy???

somebody just shoot me!!

smy

wolf_heart posted 3/25/2015 19:41 PM

I think part of the problem is we are decent people trying to understand the mind of dishonest, disloyal, disrespectful people. Decent people who aren't those things just can't understand that kind of behavior.

We would never treat a friend that way, so we can't comprehend what sort of psycho would. Let alone that our spouse we trusted would allow someone to treat us that way. After all, they did the same to us.

It just doesn't make sense to us. We aren't that cruel or mean.

Freebygrace posted 3/25/2015 19:56 PM

I think you hit the nail on the head. We are not that cruel and can't understand it. Just like I don't understand murderers, or child abusers, I can't understand someone treating a friend that way.

But the WS is supposed to protect. They took vows to support the marriage, and love you.

Maybe the friendship wasn't as strong as I thought. Maybe I liked her more as a friend than she liked me?

But I really thought my spouse loved me more than that. That is what kills me everyday.

wolf_heart posted 3/27/2015 20:50 PM

I know the feeling. Her and her feelings mattered more to him than I did. That is the killer.
The only comfort I have is that he lied to her and she lied to him just about as much as they lied to me.

Too bad we didn't marry people who were and are as devoted to marriage as we are. Too bad we didn't have friends who wouldn't covet what we have. I suppose they are jealous of us and what we have so they destroy it. How horrible for someone who claims to care about you. How sad our spouses didn't protect the marriage or us better from such undeserving people.

trustedg posted 4/27/2015 15:15 PM

Her and her feelings mattered more to him than I did. That is the killer.
Yep, it is a killer. The double betrayal.

BS18years posted 4/27/2015 16:05 PM

That is the killer for me too. It isn't just the fact that my WH betrayed me....but he sat back and allowed TWO OW to act like friends to my face the entire time they were screwing him, just so he could get his jollies. Both OW are married, they were strictly booty calls. This went on for 3 to 4 years....makes me sick just thinking of all the times we spent hanging out with these couples during that time. FOUR people that thought sleeping with someone else's spouse AND flaunting it right under their nose was an OK thing to do.

We were good friends with OW2 and her husband. They have an open marriage. Her husband tried to get me to sleep with him. I politely declined, saying that I couldn't do that to my husband, nor to my friend, his wife (OW2). He told me that I was a truly remarkable and loyal person. I told him yes, to a fault....this was before I found out that she was sleeping with my husband. God, was I soooo stupid, naive, gullible.

WineLover posted 4/29/2015 12:54 PM

Hello I am new to this forum. My husband had a LTA with my good friend. We did everything together as couples (vacations, holidays, etc.). Our daughters are best friends. To make matters worse, both couples are part of a larger friend group that socializes frequently.

We are reconciling, but I am having a really hard time knowing how to handle the issue with mutual friends. No one knows about the affair, but it is becoming more and more obvious that we no longer spend time together as couples. We have successfully avoided each other for the last 6 months.

Last weekend we were out with another couple and had an unfortunate run-in with the OW and her husband. We said goodbye to our friends and left abruptly. My husband and I did not say a word to the OW or her husband, nor did we make eye contact. It was a very awkward encounter to say the least.

Well, the story traveled quickly among my friends. I feel like the vultures are circling wanting all the gory details. When asked, I told them I no longer consider the OW to be my friend. They pressed me for details, but I told them it was a complicated situation that I didn't want to talk about. Of course this only fueled their curiosity.

A part of me would love to tell my friends how this woman betrayed me in the worst possible way. But this would expose my husband's betrayal as well. I feel there are several good reasons to keep quiet: 1) I don't want to be the source of town gossip 2) I don't want to risk my children finding out 3) I don't want my husband to be alienated by the group 4) I don't want outside input on my decision to stay in the marriage.

That being said, it infuriates me when I see how shameless the OW is. She wants me to act as if we are still talking to one another so that no one suspects anything. I simply can't bring myself to do that. My friends know there is some sort of rift between us, but they have no idea of the scope of it!

I am curious how others handled their situation. Did you tell mutual friends? Did you have any regrets?

[This message edited by WineLover at 1:06 PM, April 29th (Wednesday)]

jackie89 posted 4/29/2015 13:32 PM

First, I'm sorry that you have found yourself here. (((( BIG HUGS))))

Well, your reasons to not say anything are all valid, especially if you are definitely Reconciling. However, you should not be ashamed of any of this, it is NOT YOUR SHAME to carry. It is your husband's.

In my opinion, it just sends him the message that there are no dire consequences for his shameful actions. This was not a one time little thing, from what you said - this was a LTA. And now they both walk around town like nothing happened, you have to eat that shit sandwich every time you see the OW? I honestly can't see how you can truly heal and move forward, if all is just swept under the rug and pretend that nothing happened - just so you can all keep up appearances as a happy couple. But of course, that is only my opinion. It's up to you what you can live with, and what you are willing to accept for YOURSELF.

I told everyone, his family, my family, our mutual friends - I didn't care, there was no way I was going to take any blame for the break-up of our marriage. No way.

Is there any way that you can move from this community and have a fresh start somewhere else?

And are you sure that their affair has ended? Does the OW's husband know?

[This message edited by jackie89 at 1:33 PM, April 29th (Wednesday)]

bionicgal posted 4/29/2015 14:55 PM

WL:
I resonate with your post, and we are about 18 months further along the path than you are. Maybe something here will help.

The AP and her H were friends of ours as well - I felt like my closest friends (and their kids) had been ripped away on dday. Our kids were friends as well, and we did have to stop that -- but, our son was 9 and we just said we weren't friends with the family anymore. He is a smart cookie and knows there was a falling out (and also knows by her behavior post dday that she is the problem and not her husband) and while he used to press for "why," we were firm in just saying it was an issue between adults.

As for the social network, that is tough. We went to the same church, same gym, a lot of the same friends (we had, like, 70 facebook friends in common) live 8 blocks apart, etc. etc. I thought people would notice when we stopped hanging out together, but they really haven't. I think people are much less observant about this type of thing than you might expect. At first I coordinated a few things with OBS to make sure we didn't go to the same things, but we have found that we end up at very few things together.

We haven't had the forced face-to-face with them in a group of friends yet, but in time you will be able to look through the AP. I began to realize that she was not ever really my friend - and that she will eventually be a tiny footnote in an otherwise happy marriage. It didn't feel that way at first - the betrayal was so acute. But, she has shown herself since dday to be the kind of person I'd not have been friends with if I had known. Callous, narcissistic, and with no grace or kindness for others. I bet you will start seeing these things about your ex-friend, too. Her sleeping with your husband didn't come out of the blue. . . it is likely part of a pattern of behavior that you didn't recognize. Also, I came to realize that our relationship with the AP and her husband overall wasn't the healthiest -- we relied on false intimacies, too much gossip instead of real communication, and they actually drank a whole lot. Why I didn't heed that red flag, I don't know. It bothered me, but like other things with her, I chose to ignore it because I had no reason not to. And, I liked them.

I did actually tell a few mutual friends, but only people that I trusted explicitly to keep my child (and AP's) safe from gossip. I do not talk about the affair with them, I only informed them to make some social situations easier. Of course, I told a couple girlfriends and my sister, so when I need to bitch about her, I can.

You'll find your way through this. Feel free to PM me if you ever need support from someone who has been there.

bionicgal posted 4/29/2015 15:02 PM

PS Our MC told me that I could acknowledge the situation with friends, without feeding the gossip mill. For example, if asked, saying -- "AP hurt me and my family terribly, and I am afraid it isn't something that is fixable. So, you'll understand if I don't want to (come to a party she's at, etc.) But, it is a private matter, and I that is all I am really going to say about it." I mean, she can't argue with that, right? And then, you don't have to get into defending your husband/discussing your relationship/details etc. But, you do get to call a spade a spade.

I have been prepared with this line for 2 years, but have never needed it. I am surprised your friends are so nosy! But, I live in the Midwest, and people are pretty private here. Thankfully!

[This message edited by bionicgal at 3:03 PM, April 29th (Wednesday)]

BS18years posted 4/29/2015 15:52 PM

I am pretty sure the open marriage couple (OW#1) we were friends with have told some, if not all of the group of friends we were all in. I am not sure how the 'why aren't bs18years and mrbs18years here' question gets answered amongst them. The way other people in our group of friends look at me, I am pretty sure they know. Depresses me to think people are wondering why I am still with WH. I cannot even answer that question to myself most of the time. At least my oldest son and their son are no longer friends, takes that aspect out of it.

However, having to tell my youngest that he cannot hang out with his friend (child of OW#2) anymore is heartbreaking. I just tell myself it is not my fault we are in this position, it is WH's fault.

WineLover posted 4/30/2015 12:19 PM


you should not be ashamed of any of this, it is NOT YOUR SHAME to carry. It is your husband's.

So true. Shortly after Dday, I am embarrassed to admit that I apologized to my WH for not being a "better wife". Fortunately WH stopped me in my tracks and told me the affair was entirely his fault. I have come a long way since that point.

As for your questions, I would love to have a fresh start in a new town but that would be complicated. We still have two kids in high school and are about to embark on a home remodeling project. The OW's husband knows about the affair. I am 95% certain (can you ever be 100% ?) that it is over. I am lucky that WH is saying/doing all the right things.

At first I coordinated a few things with OBS to make sure we didn't go to the same things

I also tried coordinating things with the OBS but that didn't turn out so well. The other couple has made it clear that they will attend events whenever they want. They feel we need to be at the same events so people won't ask questions. My WH and I do not want to be anywhere near them, so sometimes we are forced to step aside.

But, she has shown herself since dday to be the kind of person I'd not have been friends with if I had known

That is so true! I now look back and see patterns in her behavior that should have been huge red flags (attention-seeking behavior, excessive drinking, flirting, secretiveness, etc. ) She repulses me so much now that I can't believe I ever considered her to be my friend.

AP hurt me and my family terribly, and I am afraid it isn't something that is fixable. So, you'll understand if I don't want to (come to a party she's at, etc.) But, it is a private matter, and I that is all I am really going to say about it."

Love this! I will put this this quote in my back pocket in case I need to use it.

Depresses me to think people are wondering why I am still with WH.

Yes, this is part of the reason I don't want people to know. Even I considered infidelity to be a deal-breaker. Funny how my perspective changed when I was actually faced with the situation.

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