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Madhatters Only Thread

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wherearewords posted 5/2/2016 09:12 AM

Hi! I'm new here and a Madhatter I guess. Just found out H had a brief EA which turned PA once. It was This past month or so. We didn't get into specific start and end dates I saw the emails but didn't commit them to memory. I'm hurting deeply and 7 months pregnant but H is being so supportive. I was unfaithful 7 years ago and reacted terribly. I realize now that I was a monster for what I did. He forgave me (after some time apart and both of us continuing destructive patterns for awhile) and we never looked back. We rugswept the entire thing and if it was ever brought up I think I still held on to some form of blaming him/not really understanding what I put him through and now I feel like complete crap. Everytime I experience the flashing images and panic attacks I know that I did that to him too and he holds me and I know he KNOWS what he did to me and he knows exactly what I'm feeling because I did it first.
This was not a revenge thing. He has been battling depression on and off for years and it's been especially bad the last year or so. Not excusing what he did at all but I can see how my refusing to take FULL responsibility for my actions has impacted our relationship and his mental state over the years. We are hoping to find time for IC and eventual MC. In the meantime and I am trying really hard to take care of myself and the baby and my children but it's so hard to even get out of bed. At least over the weekend H was home to help and pretty much take over morning routines and stuff while I gathered myself together. Now it's Monday and he is back at work and I'm back to homeschooling and taking care of 4 young children.

Elspethplaid posted 5/2/2016 17:25 PM

Sorry you guys are going through a rough time in your marriage. Glad to hear you guys are going to try marriage counseling. That will help out tremendously. I'll be praying for healing for your marriage and family. There is always hope in forgiveness and reconciliation. In the meantime, here is a great article that might help get you guys headed down the right path. You can highlight, copy than paste the link in your browser.

http://bit.ly/1QOxkR7

[This message edited by Elspethplaid at 5:27 PM, May 2nd (Monday)]

chas68 posted 5/10/2016 15:21 PM

I've been reading these forums for a few weeks now. I've seen some good advice, and I've seen some very disturbing statistics. I'm almost afraid to post because my story is long and convoluted, but I'm hurting worse right now than I ever thought possible, and I just feel lost.

Here goes. I'll try to keep it as short as possible.

My wife and I have been married almost 26 years. We've always been each others' best friend. But in 2007, I screwed up. I had an emotional affair. I'm still not sure how it started, but I didn't take it that seriously at the time. I think maybe it was a combination of approaching middle age, staleness (wife would be on one couch with her laptop working, me on another with a glass of wine and my laptop every night and just not talking), flattery that someone still found me attractive, I'm not sure. Not excuses, but perhaps reasons. Anyway, after a few months, my wife found my phone and saw the txts. She was understandably upset. I broke it off, and I guess we both just kind of swept it under the rug.

Fast forward to 2009, and we were back to old habits, and I had another affair, this one physical. An old girlfriend from HS contacted me on FB and we started talking. Before long, she was driving through town, got a hotel, I took off work, and it got physical. It was a long-distance thing since she lives halfway across the country. This continued for a few months until my wife found out and all hell broke loose. Actually, we were already ending it at that time. I did EVERYTHING that I now know I shouldn't. I shut out all of my accounts, refused to let BW see my phone, denied denied denied. We fought a lot for a couple of months, then right before Christmas, she found out that durning the affair I'd faked a business trip and flew to Atlanta to be with her for a week. I also bought her a ring because she asked me to. I was so stupid. It took my wife actually about to walk out the door to finally get through my thick head that I couldn't live without my BW. I begged, pleaded, swore it would never happen again if she would just stay. She did. We went to MC a few times, but the C claimed that we communicated really well and didn't need MC. Stupid. Anyway, she kind of buried her hurts, and I spent the next 6 years doing everything in my power to earn back her trust and show her how much I love her. I send her multiple txts every single day telling her she's beautiful and that I miss her and that I love her.

The last 6 years, our M has gotten stronger (I thought). In 2012, I found out I had prostate cancer (at 44yo!) and had surgery. My self confidence took a major hit that took years to rebuild. We were finally getting to that point. She says she trusts me fully again, and I trusted her unconditionally.

April 14th, I spilled a drink and a little of it got on her laptop. We dried it and shut it down. The next day I came home from work (I get home before her) and booted up her laptop to make sure it still worked. When I logged onto her account, her iMessages opened automatically, and I see a bunch of messages to "Carla". Actually, a man but she was hiding his number. My heart stopped as I read them. That morning when I got to work, I had txted her "Good morning beautiful! I love you!!!" She replied with "I love you too baby!!!" Literally 5 minutes after she sent me that, she sent him one saying "I could see it in your face that you were unhappy. I don't know why I always do that. You make me nervous and I can't even talk!!!
I've always been that way around you, even when I was 18.
I'm sorry. My attraction is so strong that I get stupid when I'm near you. Don't see it as me not liking you. " While I was texting her good morning, she was seeing him at the 7-11 she stops at every morning!

Scrolling up, I found a bunch of sexts from March where they were reminiscing about her giving him a blowjob in the post office parking lot, with her saying she would like to do more with him. Lot's of I love you's, pet names, etc. I was just stunned. When she got home, needless to say the shit hit the fan. She was crying hysterically and telling me it only happened that one time and that it was shortly after my affair. She said they've stayed in touch and only sext every few months. I begged her to tell me if there was anything else because if I found out later, I'm done.

That week I drank a LOT. I downloaded Dr. Fone and pulled up all her iPhone backups going back to 2012. She begged me not to read them because the details would only upset me more. I gave her MANY chances to tell me more. Finally, on Friday she admitted that she went to see him at work a couple of years ago and they made out. Again, she swore there was nothing more.

That Sunday, two days later, she's taking a bath and I'm going through the txts that I could recover. I see a conversation with her best friend where she was saying she felt really bad about what happened with another guy (OM#2), so I went and confronted her. She's now admitted to two other men (3 total), but swears she only gave a bj to them and each only once. So now I don't believe a word she says. This weekend, we were talking and I was asking her more on the timeline. She said she gave OM#3 (Actually #1 according to the timeline) 3 bjs. I told her she had told me it was only one, but she denies saying that. I've let that go for now.

She's doing everything I didn't do. She's given me her passwords, let me look through her phone and laptop, let me ask questions, shown true remorse...but after all the TT the last 3 weeks, I don't trust her at all. We've been to MC once and IC twice, but right now I'm just shattered. My emotions are all over the place. I KNOW I did everything wrong my time around, and yet she still stayed with me. I haven't even THOUGHT about straying since then, so I keep telling myself that if I could change, so can she. She SWEARS it will never happen again and that she's told me everything, but I'm just not ready to believe her. I'm just in a deep well and I can't even see the light at the top.

Sorry this was so long.

ETA: I've finished going through all of the deleted txts I could recover and haven't found anything else, but there is a LOT missing. Her begging me not to read them really makes me think that there is more, but I have no way to prove it.

[This message edited by chas68 at 3:23 PM, May 10th (Tuesday)]

chas68 posted 5/11/2016 19:34 PM

*crickets* Did I say something wrong?

ktez posted 5/13/2016 13:15 PM

Hi chas68. This board can be pretty quiet so no its nothing youve said. Sorry you are here. Just wanted to say about the phone messages download part. I had text affairs with 2 different men over a 2 year period. When I finally admitted to my WH what I had done (when he was about to leave me for his AP), he downloaded the messages and got some of them to read. It broke his heart and made him physically ill. In the early days of R (we are 18 mths out now) I begged him not to retrieve them as I knew it would hurt him even more. There is a lot of crap said when you are trying to flatter another person and all the disgusting talk that goes with it. I told my H everything. I never once got physical with them but husband thought I was hiding more. I got to the point though that I gave up the phone and told him to download them in their entirety as I was truly fed up with being accused of everything anyway. He hasn't taken me up on the offer yet as he feels it might kill him off. Just wanted to give you an insight into that part of the texting and not wanting the BH to see them for reasons other than you would think.

sadeyezagain posted 5/18/2016 22:24 PM

I apologize in advance, but can someone explain what a madhatter is? I've tried to figure it out for myself, but I haven't been successful so far.

Thanks.

Candyman66 posted 5/19/2016 10:52 AM

Sadeyezagain; I am a Mad Hatter and my understanding is it's when both husband and wife have affairs during their marriage to each other.

Affairs on different spouses is considered a serial cheater.

libertyrocks posted 6/28/2016 14:10 PM

I'm going to cut and paste my post here...

My Whole Story Up Until Today:

I can't believe it. I betrayed his trust. FWH and I have been together for 16 years, married for 9 years. He's been sober for two years. First Dday was Nov 2012, TT for a year. His last PA was the week before I found out in Nov 2012. We went to marriage counseling, chemical dependency classes, etc. I left him three times since Nov 2012 on average for about 6-8 months each time. The pain kept coming back and I couldn't take it.
We have two boys under 6 years old. I'm not having them come from a broken home.

Fast forward to this time around. We've been back together for 10 months. I slept with another man while we were separated a few weeks before boys and I moved in with FWH again. (I know, I'm not proud of the erratic behavior of a one night stand - I just felt it was necessary to feel attractive again, if that makes sense.)

So, a few weeks of us living together again and he finds out I'm talking and flirting with other guys online. He's livid. I tell him it made my ego feel better...

Fast forward to last week. I stopped talking to other guys for awhile and last month, when I stopped my anti-depressants, I started talking to guys again online ONLY (not in person). He finds a string of a sexual converstation from that guy I slept with and I.

Needless to say, he's angry, depressed, and feel that his manhood has been taken away.
I don't know what to do. I mean leave FWH or not. I don't want the boys to be without their father...

Other thing is FWH is very very manipulative. I've tried leaving him about 5 times, for every time I actually left him in the past. I think he's crazy, he won't ever let me go. He gets physical, intimidating, and verbally aggressive.

So, I didn't sleep with or kiss anyone else in the past 10 months. But, a lot of online flirting and playing with fire.

I'm nearing 40 and my excuse is that I wanted to feel young and desired...

But, deep down inside, I will confess, I kind of did it on purpose so he will let me go...There's no other way he will let me go otherwise. I figured if I made him hate me, he will leave me. It's only been 4 days since he found out about my online flirting. None of the guys have my number, email, or know where I work. He's devastated now.

Another part of me confesses that we are both now on an even playing field. He always told me if I did the same, he would forgive me. But, I don't think HE can forgive me because he's a man...

In reality, I have not fully forgiven him either for sleeping with 9 OW during the 3 years I was busting my ass working 12 hour days, having his babies, and breastfeeding them every 3 hours in the middle of the night, while we lived with his parents, and he was out blowing our house money with the college chicks he would hang out with behind my back. He still works at the very same bar and doesn't wear his wedding ring. He says we don't deserve to wear wedding rings...

Sorry so long, but this is where I'm at. I got banned form WS forum, but now I feel like I'm a WS too. No PA's for me, just one EA, I guess. And, that wasn't even real, just fake online flirty stuff...

I'm having a very hard time and need some help.

Thanks to anyone who has taken the time to read this.

AnnikinSkywalker posted 7/12/2016 18:51 PM

Hello everyone, I'm new to posting in this thread (after weeks of lurking). I never thought I would make it here, but nonetheless this is where I belong. Here is a copy of my story from my profile and I apologize in advance for the length. Just wanted to say hi for now.


From the moment we met at the age of 21, we were Snow White and Prince Charming. My husband was the end-all be-all for me; I put him above everything else. I think it was too much pressure for him, and I felt him pull away from me, which for a young and inexperienced girl, only made me tighten my grip on him. About five years into the relationship, I jumped on the bed next to him and noticed him subtly turn the screen of his phone away. I followed my instincts and waited until he slept that night to look through his phone for the first time ever. Between emails on secret accounts, text messages, and chat apps, I saw contact with dozens of women that involved everything from sexting, nude photo exchanges, to conversations with women talking shit about me and how interested he was in them. I even found a flirtatious email exchange between him and a former classmate from a few years back in which they arranged plans to meet up on spring break, a week I remembered he said he was too busy for us to spend together. This situation coupled with the fact that it all started a year into our relationship, needless to say, it hit me like a wrecking ball to the gut. We worked hard to reconcile and stay together. He changed his number and gave me passwords to everything. But he is a classic rug sweeper, so though he was more loving and devoted than ever before, the whole topic fell by the wayside, until my D-Day two years later...

On his D-Day, I was nearly the largest I had ever been. I felt disgusting in my skin and unwanted. I began eating healthy and exercising immediately to get my pride back. By the end of the year, I had lost 60 pounds and was in the best shape of my life. I started a new career program and internship. My newfound confidence in life began to attract the opposite sex. I was still naive from being bigger; I never assumed anyone was interested in me, instead thinking that people were wanting friendship. One man in particular, who became my AP, was an instructor at my institution. He was older, more experienced, and charismatic. And married with a child. After several months of time, he made a move on me that shocked me. I wanted no part in it. I remember even telling my husband (then boyfriend) about it and how horrified I was. AP backed off and then began a tactic of gently charming and wooing me, telling me how loveless his marriage was. This started to appeal to the wounded side of my pride... Here someone found me insanely attractive and wanted me. It grew to be intoxicating and thus began our year long affair. I thought that he and I understood each other on another level. He told me it wasn't just physical (and the best he ever had) but that he was falling for me. Oh, but he couldn't leave his wife though, not until his toddler son was grown and out of the house. Through it all, I always knew I still loved my boyfriend and only wanted a future with him. But I made stupid justifications for my behavior, I put aside his feelings for my own, and I was horrendously selfish. This created a circular effect of self-hate. I despised who I became. I was never the girl who would have casual sex, let alone cheat on someone I loved. Before, I would have described myself loyal to a fault. The more I engaged in this behavior, the more I hated myself, which led me to do it even more.

Eventually, the AP moved out of state with his family. He wanted to continue things forever, which was his sick way of trying to show me his "commitment" to me. I was sad that I was losing my drug, but I knew it was time to stop. My boyfriend proposed shortly thereafter, and I said yes with this weighing on my heart. A week later I confessed everything to him. It almost made me feel worse that he was blindsided. He said he still loved me, and even though he wanted to be mean, he couldn't because I meant so much to him. He even thanked me for telling him. We went to bed that night and he said he still wanted to cuddle. I could feel him silently sob himself to sleep... And that will haunt me for the rest of my life. I don't know how I will ever forgive myself for my transgressions. I know that this is something to take one day at a time, and I will do whatever it takes. We've been married now for almost two years.

Sniper posted 8/28/2016 13:07 PM

MH ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:33 PM, August 28th (Sunday)]

AMaeMOBluesawyer posted 9/1/2016 08:50 AM

I guess I am figuring out, again, I'm a MH. Can it be so uncommon?
It's kind of chilly and quiet in here which seems sad for us; we are still people right? I was a BW first; then after 5 years of supposed R and a year after D-day 2, hearing my WH actually tell me he could not guarantee he wouldn't slip again, I succumbed to those evil gremlins inside my head that said it was okay. I needed to be validated. I wanted to be loved. I deserved it, but couldn't build the courage to leave my WH; so I caved and did what he'd been doing. My self esteem was low. WH was likely in a new A himself as all the familiar signs/red flags were there. No excuse. I got mad and greedy. I wanted what he had. So I went down that evil path. It (my A) only lasted a couple of months before I couldn't live with myself. I stopped the A, and told my now BH/FWS everything out of the blue. That is when I realized why I did it, so he'd force me out. I could leave.
An exit revenge affair.

You can read more of my story on my profile if anyone interested in this madhatter stuff, but I can see by the lack of replies and old post dates on this thread that no one comes here much.

I still trying to figure out why I'm back on SI at all. This was all 6 years ago. I think I'm in a current relationship rut, and I am trying to make myself realize how great it really is and not sabotage it.

Hopeful16 posted 9/5/2016 06:27 AM

Hi AMaeMOBluesawyer

I agree, there's not been much activity on this thread for a while, but hope that I can help by posting.

I'm sorry that you went down the path of an A and pleased that you were able to stop it, and realise how important your relationship was. It wouldn't have been easy to tell your BH.

For me, I'm the WS, and after three online A's (well the first two chatting to women I can't even remember the names of) and the third being in touch with someone, with the view to meet, but we never did (at the point I got caught.), and my BS tried to kill herself.

Anyway, DDay for the third A is about four months ago now, and I'm still living in a separate house, but we are starting to get on very well. Some great family days out together, and she said just last week that she said that the pain no longer felt as raw, but it was the hurt she still felt which was stopping her from moving forward with us. I was also pleased that she said that there was still love between us. She is also "stalling" the D at the moment.

Remind back to July however and I came across some mens clothing in our / her bedroom, next to a gift bag that had lots of nice lingerie that I hadn't seen before. Granted I shouldn't have been looking around but it was important that I saw this.

I told her dad and he asked her what was going on, and then I received this long text from her dad (looked like it had been written by the BS) with a pathetic excuse about why the clothes were there, which I didn't believe.

We rugswept the issue and carried on with our daily friendly text messages, but rarely about our feelings, which wasn't healthy.

I have noticed the odd time when I've been to the house that she would hide her phone away from me, and that the message notifications on her iphone no longer pop up. Again, I've not brought that up and continued to be friendly.

On Saturday I popped around to the house when they weren't in (not to look around) but to drop something off for my sons birthday to find that there was a key in the front door (they had left the house out the back.) which I thought was odd. I approached my BS over text who accused me of invading her privacy, and that I had been looking around the bedroom again when I had stayed over the other night (I stayed over to break the journey on where I had to go the next day, as opposed to sleeping with her.)

After a messy time during my sons birthday where I kept digging at my BS over many things linked to this RA "assumption" (given I don't have any firm facts) and with her parents, we ended up in a huge argument where I accused her of cheating on me after she accused me on the same. She walked out the house at that point.

To cut a long story short I went back during the day to find the house still locked (even though her mum had said a complete lie about our children playing out the back at the time hence why it was locked.) When they all turned back up at the house I was able to have a chat to her dad, who can be very supportive and would like to see us back together.

He said that my BS thought that I had been looking around her room and came across something she had bought for "somebody", but was "now taking it back". I assured her dad that I hadn't, and its possible that our sons had been looking around the room, and pulled this parcel or whatever it was apart.

There was also something I noticed in that her parents stayed over the night before, in our / her bed, but the guest room bed hadn't been used since I made it, so where had my BS slept that night? There was no cushions downstairs next to the sofa, or anywhere I could see. It was always the guest room she would use if she wanted to sleep in a different room. All a bit odd, particularly as she had been shopping all day, and would have been tired. She made a particular reference to there being a late takeaway that same night - was this a lie or me just going crazy with my thoughts?

This has obviously led me to wonder what the heck is still going on?! My mind has been in complete overdrive and I'm arranging a session with my IC to go through it all.

I woke up this morning to a friendly text from my BS which I appreciated. After my actions yesterday, I'd understand her not being in touch, and we've text all morning (again, not talking about our feelings; just making some plans to go out with our children somewhere together tomorrow as a family.) She has asked in particular that we only talk about the children tomorrow, and nothing else.

I'm left wondering what I should do, and if there is actually still someone on the scene. Whatever she has bought might have been for months ago and just hasn't had time to return it, or it could be recent.

I do honestly still think that my BS would get back together, but because she is so mixed up, she's bouncing between both of the cakes.

Initially I'm going to try to speak to her to find out where we are at, but then to dig deeper into who this is. If she wants to continue, I'm filing for D now, not later. I can understand that she wants to get her own back or whatever, but it has to come out in the open than be hidden away, as its only making my mental health worse.

Any advice you can provide would be much appreciated.


[This message edited by Hopeful16 at 9:54 AM, September 5th (Monday)]

Hopeful16 posted 9/5/2016 06:32 AM

I still trying to figure out why I'm back on SI at all. This was all 6 years ago. I think I'm in a current relationship rut, and I am trying to make myself realize how great it really is and not sabotage it.

I think its important to think about just how great the relationship is / can be, whilst trying to put the hurt to one side (which isn't always easy to do.)

Whilst my BS may have had a RA, I still focus on whats good about her; which is something that I should have done far far more at the time that I had my own A's. By living separately I've had time to do that.

Its so easy to sabotage a relationship and say things which can later flare up in an argument. Actions are stronger than words in this kind of situation.

It sounds to be like you are doing the right things amongst what is obviously a very complicated situation, with many many different feelings. I will have to look at your other post and comment there too.

AMaeMOBluesawyer posted 9/5/2016 15:53 PM

Hopeful16,

Thank you for your comments, and I have read your post here. Your dilemma sounds confusing to you I can tell, and I do want to add my replies to your situation. I will as soon as I can, later tonight or tomorrow. There seem to be some similarities but also some big differences in our stories. I'm not sure I'll have great advice, but I will try to help you. This MH stuff is so disconcerting in general. It's so difficult to compartmentalize the feelings from one side to the other and when to expect more from yourself or from the other person. Ugh!! I'll be back tho. Hang on.

OwningItNow posted 9/5/2016 17:08 PM

I never know where to post or who to respond to, so spending time here in MH feels like a good idea. I think that 95% of all relationships are complicated and don't have clear or easy paths, but I will give my 2 cents.

Hopeful16, you guys are technically separated, but you do deserve to know which path you are on. If she is giving you enough reasons (verified honesty, agreed upon goals) to believe you two are working toward reconciliation, then maybe let the red flags go. But stay aware. Trust but verify. It is in your own best interest to believe in people but never but never make someone else the most important thing in your life. YOU must be the most important thing to you, your wife to your wife, etc. We all must take care of ourselves. Love her if she deserves it, but love yourself in a healthy way. You don't maybe need a wall, but you need your own hobbies, passions, interests, and goals. If she is indeed straying in some way, you know you have yourself to fall back on. But I hope she is not.

AMaeMOBluesawyer, when you feel you are in a relationship funk, it is time for IC! Do not let the blah progress. This is about you and your feelings, not the marriage itself. That is my greatest regret, that while I did IC, I did not see it as the emergency it was when my depression began. I fought a connection between my emotions and my M, so I never got to the heart of the matter and let my H know what I was feeling. I just escaped into an A. Get into IC and let them know what you are feeling.

MaddyHatty posted 9/5/2016 22:07 PM

I introduced myself in the general forum, but I wanted to come and introduce myself and share my journey here as well.

I was first married back when I was 20. My boyfriend and I got pregnant accidentally and rushed to get married before our baby was born. We had only been dating/known each other for 6 months. He had a pretty severe drinking problem, cheated on me numerous times, was verbally and emotionally abusive, and our marriage ended when he started becoming physically abusive. After our divorce, he did complete rehab and was diagnosed with bipolar disorder which he began seeing a therapist and taking medication for, so he does see our child every other weekend for 24 hours.

I met my husband a few years later. My husband also has a drinking problem, but never has been physically abusive. In the beginning of our relationship, he cheated on me a few times online (sexting and e-mailing with women he found on dating sites, but never actually physically meeting up with anyone). He also hit on a few of my friends (who are luckily loyal friends and were honest with me and wanted nothing to do with his advances), stopped having sex with me a month into our marriage because he preferred to watch porn (he called this a timing issue- he was in the mood at times when I was unavailable, and when I was available he had already watched porn and masturbated and was no longer in the mood), and met up with an old girlfriend and made out with her.

We were constantly fighting due to his cheating and constant disrespect of our marriage, his refusal to stop drinking and using “I was drunk” to justify a lot of questionable decision making, and my inability to calm down. Over a year ago, I moved myself and my child out of the home. I considered getting a divorce, and essentially told husband to call me when he was ready to be sober and go to marriage counseling with me.

During that time, I was confused and hurt and frustrated and quite frankly angry. I wound up sleeping with my ex-husband a few times. When my husband quit drinking and agreed to go to counseling 2 months later, I moved back into our home but I slept with my ex one more time after moving in and then ended things in favor of working on my marriage. I did not tell my husband that I had been sleeping with my ex and during the first three months of counseling, neglected to mention this in any of our sessions. My ex got angry with me for ending our sexual relationship and told my husband that we had slept together. My husband was angry and hurt and enraged- and immediately went out and called an ex of his, got together with her and she gave him oral sex. He lied to me about this for over a month and admitted to this in one of our counseling sessions.

We have been in R for the last 9 months, and have been really struggling as both of us have a ton of resentment towards each other, but we are committed to trying.

AMaeMOBluesawyer posted 9/5/2016 22:55 PM

Maddy Hatty,

I hear you. I replied to your post in General (ETA: in WS forum), but after reading this I see there is a little more to the story.

I'll answer more tomorrow as its late now but you didn't technically chest if in S. But when you went back to start R, you did. And by hiding it, then it becomes full on deceit.

Are you still in IC? MC? What do they say?

You've got a hard road ahead of you to R. If it's worth it then keep going, but BOTH of you have work to do to fix the M. I think the saying is something like: you fix you first, while H fixes himself; then you can work together to fix M.

I'm not the best to give advice about R since all mine were false and now permanently S (D not an option right now but to us it's just a paper-in all intents and purposes we are D).

I'll visit this and return to Hopeful16 in the am.
Rest your weary eyes for now.
AMae

[This message edited by AMaeMOBluesawyer at 1:53 PM, September 6th (Tuesday)]

MaddyHatty posted 9/5/2016 23:08 PM

Thank you so much for your reply!!

I feel that what I did was cheating. I moved out, but I was not clear of the terms of the separation and continued the betrayal when I moved back in (again, mostly due to resentment).

Our MC has encouraged us not to argue semantics- both of us were unfaithful, both of us intentionally hurt the other. My IC has been working with me and blames my depression which I semi agree with but I feel that it was a lot more than that.

I stopped asking "why," and have moved beyond that question. He doesn't remember and can't answer for behavior while he was drunk. Convenient for him. Getting together with his ex after finding about mine was a knee jerk "eye for an eye" reaction and I understand why. He can't seem to accept a why explanation from me

On a day to day basis, we are actually doing better. We fight less and save it for MC sessions, are working on effective parenting and open communication. But there is this ugly wreckage of a past that lingers in the background and I feel like resentment is just sitting there brewing on both sides. That will take a long time to unwind and work through for both of us.

LosferWords posted 9/5/2016 23:23 PM

Sounds like you and your husband are taking some steps in the right direction, MaddyHatty. Open communication is a plus, in fact a necessity, IMO. If there is resentment building in the background, I think it is important to bring that out into the open - eventually. It is so hard to cover all bases at once.

My IC has been working with me and blames my depression which I semi agree with but I feel that it was a lot more than that.

That's what I would call a "contributing factor". Depression, low self esteem, and a bad self image were all contributing factors for me with my affair. Ultimately it was my own conscious choice, though. Nobody held a gun to my head. Poor coping mechanisms, and a path of self destruction were right up there as well. Focusing on those contributing factors and healing from them can really go a long way.

Hang in there, and keep at it. Wishing you the best of luck.

Hello and welcome to all the newer members that have recently started posting here. I will try to check in more often.

AMaeMOBluesawyer posted 9/6/2016 12:48 PM

Hey MH's, I'm glad to see some activity here on this thread. Seems we have all been thru some crap and are in different stages of this BS/WS roller coaster.
I want to reply to all of your posts above starting with hopeful16. If anyone lurking or had an earlier post I responded to but still looking for support just "bump" your post and I will re-read it and we can see if we can help each other in this sickness.

Hopeful:
Thanks for your words to me. If you haven't gone to read my story here's the summary. My xWS/BH and I are permanently S, no D while our kids are still minors but no chance at R and we both now have our own places, lives (except for co-parenting), and SO's.

So you are still only 4 months out of her dDay about your EA's. Give her some space and time. Sounds like she needs IC if not already bc siucide is never about the other people in someone's life but bc if something within that person. I know this bc my mother committed suicide and it haunts me everyday and even tho I'm mad at her and wonder at times "what could I have done", it was her struggle that she was dealing with.

You are technically separated and I do feel that's a weird status for a M bc if your BW is seeing or talking to another man then is it technically cheating? IMO, if you're talking possible R then yes it's cheating but if heading to D, no it's not. I guess she gets to make that decision. However, should you still be vigilant? Yes. Should you snope? Idk. Read some of the other threads on here maybe in jfo (although as a WS you can't post there). But maybe there's other places with that info whether to snipe or not especially if you've asked out right and get hostility in return. But your situation is different bc she's still very raw about her Dday, I'd assume, and your accusing her now may come across as projecting your own issues on to her. I remember when I first found out about my WS, he accused me of cheating too, which at the time was completely off base. Not an uncommon reaction for the WS, I've read.

Regardless of all those Q's you should be working hard right now to fix yourself and finding out why you strayed emotionally and finding ways to prove you're changed to your BW. Continue with IC!! Push for MC. Have you seen your C since you started doubting the actions of your BW? Is she seeing someone for C?

I'd focus on her wanting to continue communicating with you at all even if only about the kids. But show her you still want to R. Leave that door open. If she's honest about that then even if she's "cheated while separated" she will likely let it come out and then y'all can deal with it. I don't think you can take the BS approach with her amidst you still being the WS. It's going to take a lot of patience and understanding on both your sides to get thru this. But you can.

Have you come completely clean yourself? Offered a polygraph? Gone 100% NC! Opened all your devices and accounts to her. A major set back to any R is TT or more Ddays. You need to focus on fixing that first before diverting your energy into what she is doing or not doing. That is for her to decide. You might be rug sweeping by doing that and that'll lead to resentments and stress on any ongoing R.

Good luck. I'm here to listen anytime and offer my advice as a BS or as a WS.
AMae


[This message edited by AMaeMOBluesawyer at 10:43 AM, September 7th (Wednesday)]

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