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Emotional Affairs

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Thornier posted 4/21/2017 10:32 AM

I'm not sure where I am as to the subject matter. WW and AP never consummated their relationship fully. I saw multiple indicators of this in messages... However she admits to kissing him several times. They were planning a date when WW had a fit of conscious and decided to come clean...

It's brutal either as a EA or EA/PA.

Before anyone asks... The evidence is what makes me believe it's like this... not her word.

[This message edited by Thornier at 11:35 AM, April 21st (Friday)]

andieintexas posted 4/25/2017 11:04 AM

My Dday was six months ago. I discovered on Halloween night an email on my husbands phone...from a coworker who had been a direct report of my husbands. She was gushing about how she couldn't wait to spend the day together tomorrow ( they had travel plans together), her butterflies were starting, she couldn't wait to be with him always and not have to pack/unpack. It was signed "I love you sugar!". I completely fell apart. It confirmed ALL of my suspicions! I felt like a complete IDIOT. I know this woman. I have entertained her in our home!

Several months earlier my husband brought her into the house after they had been out on sales calls together. She wanted to "see our new pool" You know how you walk into a room and can feel a weird tension? Well I felt her looking at me like a lion looks at her prey. Very creepy. However, stupid me, never suspected a thing. She is not attractive. My husband would actually mention her to me, almost daily. I believe that it was an EA. She was CONSTANTLY stroking my husband's ego Telling him how awesome he was. What a leader he was. How he was THE BEST at everything. It was so obvious what she was doing and he fell all over it.
Then he began to be constantly on his phone, texting, looking at social media. They talked and texted constantly all day. Even on weekends. I called him out on it once, when we were on a date, and she texted him a selfie. I asked " is that K?" He blew up at me and said that they were just "close personal friends" BS!! Married men cannot be "close personal friend" with married women. Especially since I have never even met her husband!
After the explosion of emotions upon discovering the email...I kicked him out and contemplated divorce. But I love my family ( 3 teenage/adult children) and we have been married for 22 years. He came home and we are R. He made a phone call to her the day after DDay and told her he could never see or speak to her either personally or professionally ever again. He has been weepy and remorseful. He has told me that he will spend the rest of his life making me feel loved, honored and respected. He has since left the company where they worked. He has deleted all his social media. I also have access to all his email/phone.
But this is still SO HARD! He has since confessed that over the 9 months of their EA he attempted to have sex with her 5 times! I was crushed. But each time he SAYS had ED and couldn't do it. All attempts were when they were on a business trip together and had been at the hotel bar drinking.( Never ever in 22 years has this EVER happened when we are together) SO my big struggle right now is trying to believe that he is telling the truth about the PA part of his story. How do I believe him at all? After all, he has lied to me about having an affair, lied about where he was staying when he was out of town, lied about travel and even what city he was in. I was stupid to EVER have trusted him. And it is so difficult for me to imagine trusting him again. I think about it constantly. How have you all managed the crazy thoughts/triggers? Would you believe your husband when he said he had ED when attempting to be physical? So did he have a PA or not? I am so confused and angry. I feel like he is lying to "lessen the blow" so to speak. I keep asking for the whole truth but it's hard to believe a liar.

LearningToRun posted 4/25/2017 11:34 AM

5 times and never consummated? Yeah, no. Not a chance.
Cheaters lie and minimize. it's what they do. What he has told you is just the tip of the iceberg.
How do you believe him at all? You don't. He lost your trust by lying, minimizing and gas lighting you.

Trust your gut. What does it say?

Honestly, it really doesn't matter if it was "just an EA" or both - it was a betrayal of your marriage either way.

It's up to you to decide if you want to live with a man who will toss your history away on a little ego stroke.

Recovery from a betrayal like this takes YEARS. So be kind to yourself and don't try to jump to forgiveness. (((hugs)))

Thornier posted 4/28/2017 20:52 PM

You ever read your WS's texts (to family/friends not to AP) looking for mentions of AP? I did that a few days ago and I found several "I know it's hard but it'll be alright." (about not talking to AP) and "He(AP) doesn't have to be a jerk about it." Frankly it's kinda pissed me off for a couple days now.

It's like "It was hard for you to break up with your boyfriend? You should have never been in that relationship in the first place!"

I'm just irritable.

ISurvivedSoFar posted 5/7/2017 10:33 AM

andieintexas - so sorry you find yourself here, among friends none of us every wanted.

Gently, if he tried to consummate but ED got in the way, that means he was already in a PA because to get to that point you have to be physical. I'm hard pressed to believe they did not satisfy each other anyway so he is delusional and trying to get you to believe his own BS. I'm sorry you have to realize this horrific truth of the A no matter if it is PA or not.

My WS bought the AP home many times, right under my nose, and also had her in my home when I was not around of course. It creates the most awful feeling that not only have our WS's been contaminated, but our homes too. We have very selfish partners who spent more time caring about themselves in the moment than anything else.

You need to get healthy - whatever that means for you. I am six months out too and am just getting my feet firmly placed on the ground where I am able to stand up for myself and call BS when my WS is still full of delusional thinking.

You might find that distancing yourself from your WS's issues and details of the A can help you heal and see things more objectively. I had one EMDR session at IC after which I could look at my situation from a distance and objectively see that I needed to stop enabling my WS. It is time for me and my needs. He can either give me what I need or not but I'm going to make sure I get it so I can stop torturing myself, keep myself safe from him, and nurture our children.

Tell him that you don't feel he is being truthful and you need the truth. If that is what is going to help you heal, then do it. If he resists, then maybe you need to tell him you will heal without him.

Pilotwives posted 5/28/2017 11:31 AM

[This message edited by Pilotwives at 11:49 AM, May 28th (Sunday)]

Lionshare posted 6/6/2017 00:07 AM

It's brutal either as a EA or EA/PA.

Yes, Thornier it's also simply an affair, and they are all brutal. It seems to me that multiple kissing sessions is a physical affair.

Did she label this as as an EA herself, as in "This was an EA, not a PA"?

If calling it and EA was her idea, then you can bet the farm its a tactic to minimize. Lawyer up and demand a polygraph so you can get to the truth.

Initial "moment of conscience" confessions are almost never truthful. Like more than 90% of them.

[This message edited by Lionshare at 12:09 AM, June 6th (Tuesday)]

jo68 posted 6/9/2017 22:40 PM

I'm 6mnths post Dday. We've made some.positive strides. He's consistent with our morning talks everyday even if for 5minutes. I have all passwords etc. Ive been feeling better about myslef too.
Friday tho, AP sends me a hi, how are you message .ME!?!That just sent me iff in such a spin. The gall of the woman. All sanctimonious publicly, in private shes a slut and home wrecker.
I deteriorated in the space of a day. I started off handling it ok but I allowed myself too much time to think about it. And I'm right back where I started on the 27Dec. No appetite. Cant look him in his face. Checking fones. Aaaargh. This is such trauma ! All the while I can feel im pushing him further and further away. All the I Love you messages, came streaming back in my head how deeply he loved her, how he never stopped.loving her, how its always been her, shes the best fuck hes ever had,how hes come for her so many times over the last 20years, how he carries her inside his heart, how difficult it is not to drop everything and run to her.
Intellectually ive been made to understand that this is all part of the fantasy. But this fantasy almost broke my marriage! This fantasy stole my husband from me amd left me with a emotionally absent man!
Just cut out my heart so I can stop feeling. Please. This hurts too much

shopaula posted 6/20/2017 02:19 AM

jo68... it's been over a year since I've been on here.... things were going okay... my marriage has been slowly getting better... I've dealt with the OW still spreading gossip about my marriage breaking up, I've been asked several times how I'm coping with my husband leaving, her showing up at the store I work at... anything just to get a rise out of me... I haven't let her... until this week.... My WH had broken all ties, except he still works with the woman... they are on the same crew but work at different locations... he was heading out of town for a medical appointment, she needed something picked up in the town his appointment was, dropped it off at her house, she was at work, and my husband is an idiot....now the whole shit storm has started over again... Her on again off again husband left a letter taped to the door at work.. detailing their affair, picture of a note he wrote her a over a year ago, and one of a condom and lube... which I didn't get that one.... my husband has swore up and down there is nothing going on... he just did her a favor .. and that was all... now it's flooding back again.. I don't trust him... not that I was fully back to trusting him... I'm back to checking his cell phone, which I haven't done in months.... I just want this to be over for good... but it seems every time my husband gives her any little bit of attention, it starts all over again.. I'm going to the police to file a complaint against her husband... this is the 3rd time he has pulled crap at my workplace...not loosing my job over the pair of them... I can't sleep, my stomach is a mess, I'm just ready to throw in the towel... Just wish my husband would see that she is a wack job... and the worst part is, she is getting her ex to do all her dirty work for her.....
So update...somethings weren't sitting right with me for the last few days... I needed to know the truth...apparently he gave the OW a ride to work 4 or 5 times this winter when the weather was bad... which he told me over a year ago he would never do again... so yet more lies, so I told him every thing the OW has been doing to me over the last year.. it was quiet up until Feb/March.. hadn't heard a thing from her... then all of a sudden, the gossip started again... and guess when that was, yep... Feb/March....gee and he wonders why I think this women is a wack job??? again... any little attention he gives her.....and the crap starts hitting the fan... just feels like the whole last year has been a lie... I'm a very truthful person, I hate lying... I've seen how all my life what lying does to people.. I just can't understand why he didn't come clean on Saturday?? Most of it was already out there, it wasn't going to change how mad and hurt I already was ... say he was afraid of loosing everything... well may be he should have thought of that before he started this whole mess.. my husband and I where friends since I was 14... I never in a million years thought he would have done this to me... the ultimate betrayal... I not only feel I've lost my husband, but also one of my oldest friends....

[This message edited by shopaula at 8:17 AM, June 21st (Wednesday)]

unbelievable24 posted 8/10/2017 13:53 PM

My husband's family thinks I should be over this because he wasn't screwing anyone. Well, he didn't ADMIT it anyway.

Did anyone have similar reactions from family and/or friends?

JC109 posted 8/12/2017 09:21 AM

My Wife had an EA for 18 months (with some breaks towards the end) with a guy 400 miles away, mostly by chat. They had the secret email acct, etc.

I have proven the only PA part was a 5 minute kiss when they met the first time. She confessed right after that.

The question that lingers is pictures. She claims only one was sent of her in lingerie he bought and sent to her. She claims it was immediately deleted. When I talked to the AP he said one picture only.

What are the chances that when you are sexting all the time and talking about what you would do to each other pictures would not be sent? Am I being too naive to believe them?

JC109 posted 8/12/2017 09:24 AM

My WW now feels that if I ever bring up her affair I am just trying to shame her so she gets defensive. I don't even bring it up much at all. But a trigger happens and I have a question such as "who were you on the phone with" (even gentle) she gets all pissed because I am trying to shame her. Seriously?

Cephastion posted 8/12/2017 11:15 AM

JC, it sounds to me like " the best defense is a good offense" where that trust-check, trigger-guard question about her phone use is concerned. My wife has used that play many a time where her own sense of guilt in other matters demanded that she cover her own shame in how she was conducting herself in a particular matter. Even if she's being honest about her phone use being innocent in terms of not being the worst possible scenario or the "crime" you suspect her of committing, it's likely sounding to me that she's covering for SOMETHING or another.

Sometimes people have fear or shame about a thing that isn't even a "thing" to their spouse, but their own consciences are bothered by it, or else they really ARE innocent of any wrong-doing but fear having their actions misunderstood or misinterpreted. This IS a very real possibility with many folks and many different situations--especially where the defensive person is a serious conflict-avoidance individual, or feels threatened by any-and-everything imaginable. If such is the case with your spouse, then I think you've got to work with her on really being WITH you in the fight against the pain of her breaking trust with you. And to come clean about facing fears and dealing honestly with conflict and other "unpleasantries" of life.

Even if I'm wrong about my own judgement call and suspicions regarding your wife and this situation, a little exercise in loving one another better and more effectively isn't just a good idea nonetheless, it's also a good way to put your own heart to rest on the matter along with a whole lot of other matters as she works to rebuild your trust and the relationship she spent hours and another man's money and Judas kisses to tear down.

H0nest posted 9/28/2017 14:28 PM

i guess you can chalk mine up to an emotional affair since i only texted and talked on the phone with the OW. we had plans to meet up and grab a few beers together, but her separated H found out so that never happened.

runsmiley posted 10/19/2017 02:25 AM

I recently told a friend about DDay2 two weeks ago when WH had an EA (so he claims) with the same one he claimed NC 6 years ago.
She didn't seem to take it seriously. Their friendship made it so much worse and this time WH said how hard it was to give up... or apparently not.

shopaula posted 10/25/2017 08:31 AM

unbelievable24... yes, my own mother said I was over reacting... till she started hearing the gossip... I live in a small town, it doesn't take long for crap to spread...I think most people think it's just texting... what's the big deal. It's the betrayal that people don't get. I found it harder to get over that fact. My WH was telling the OW all sorts of things about our life, and she in return used it to come at me. My biggest thing was why he didn't come to me about things that was bothering him in our relationship, didn't say a thing to me... but poured his heart out to the crazy lady. Thankfully, my husband found out just how nuts this woman is...so it has been calm for now... still waiting for the other shoe to drop... I don't trust this woman.. last straw was when she was seeking out one of my children at her workplace...she is only 15...I got the police involved and it still hasn't completely stopped... have to wonder what goes on in people's heads!!!
Unless people have had it happen to them, most don't get it... your pain is real and don't let anyone tell you otherwise...

betrayedRN posted 10/26/2017 15:21 PM

I hope this doesnít sound crazy so far out, but my friend told me yesterday that her husband cheated on her (again) and this feels so raw again.
Last year on NYE we went to a wedding and couple friends of ours crashed the dance and he danced with her way more than me and I was upset. Similar thing had happened Thanksgiving weekend at live music at a bar in town. She and he and she and I have been friends for a long time and our kids are friends and our husbands were friends but had kind of grown apart when they didnít work together anymore (which is how we all met in the first place).
NYD he said we needed to talk. Theyíd been texting and talking more than usual and nothing had happened but he felt guilty and knew it was a kind of emotional affair and wanted to come clean.
I was devastated because he knew over a year prior that I didnít like him talking to her about anything having to do with me or us and I had been pushing her away as a friend since because of it. Also devastated because he was making time for her that he wasnít for me, and because in my mind sheís prettier, more fun, etc. He has pretty low self-esteem and admitted he liked that he thought she was a little attracted to him but even more than that he liked listening to her work problems and talking to her and helping her.
I resent that so much because he is the only person I share most deep things with. I have a few really close friends but I donít open up about everything because I donít want people to know if Iím unhappy or things arenít perfect. I felt and still feel like she picked a shitty husband who doesnít listen to her and thatís her problem, not mine. I donít really think people should need anyone other than their spouse to talk to, so it makes me crazy that they would say theyíre each otherís best friends. Sorry, I married my best friend, he canít be yours too.
So, actually all 3 of us talked (her husband refused) and I screamed and cried and see some ground rules, and fast forward about 9 months we are better. Iím still friends with her and so is he. Itís hard a lot of days, but heís very open about if I want to read texts, etc. I made him delete Snapchat after I found out their Ďdeepí conversations happened there, and then kicked myself because I tried everything to retrieve them and couldnít.
He is very remorseful, was scared shitless he was going to lose me, and yet I think still thinks Iím crazy that this bothers me probably more than if heíd had a random one night stand with a stranger.
Iím a lot like my friend referenced above who just got cheated on and I struggle-Iím not needy or clingy and I donít like to be suspicious-and I think it makes him not feel wanted, and the fact that this could happen to her again makes me feel so vulnerable.
On the other hand, my husband says it finally feels like weíre married again because we talk more, etc. It was almost easier being numb and shutting him out than risking being hurt. I really do believe it was never physical, but I donít care. The emotional is worse for me.
Age 36
Married 15 years
3 kids (13,11,8)

shopaula posted 1/8/2018 14:47 PM

Tomorrow is the 2 year anniversary of DDay... and I can't help but have a sinking feeling in my stomach.. I've had it for a week now.. just didn't realize until today why... and now I can't get it off my mind. My life has been forever changed since that day. I still don't trust my WH and I'm still on alert about the OW.. I don't trust her, she just seems at any chance she can get to get back into our lives, it's been a few months, but I'm still on guard all the time. Every time his cell phone goes off, I'm on edge... it's the trust thing. Life has change in general.. we will be grandparents next month, we are getting along better, I started a new job, which I love and the OW and her on again off again husband don't come in to this store (at least I haven't seen them yet) life has been a lot better, but that woman is still lingering in the background and I can't shake it... I would have thought after 2 years this feeling might have gone away.. I want to trust him again, but how can I? I caught him in a couple of lies last spring, which didn't help. He found out then what a nut case this woman is and he knows if I even hear whispers about her again, he's out the door for good. When does this stop... does it ever stop?? Just need to vent and see if anyone else is having the same issues as I am... I've been to a counciling myself, it did help for a little while, till I found out she had never been married.. how do you take advice on that when the person giving it doesn't have a clue... May be if I just get through the next couple of days I will be fine.... don't know what to think... I know I didn't think my life would be like this at 48..
I honestly just wish the OW would die, and the worst part is I heard she is doing it again to another couple... what is wrong with these women??? I just don't get it and never will....

Undefinabl3 posted 1/12/2018 12:42 PM

Please help....what was the moment that made you leave...or stay?

I am about 24 hours from a new DDay and i am horribly lost

BrainFreeze posted 1/12/2018 14:19 PM

what was the moment that made you leave...or stay?

My wife told me she wanted a divorce. She simply had a new understanding of what she wanted out of life and she just needed to do this. Stupid me... I believed her. It wasn't until after she told me that she wanted to work on our relationship that I found out about her A. When I found out, my first reaction was to tell her to leave. It turns out that you don't actually jump out of a plane without a parachute. (I should have pushed her out LOL)

After quite a bit of thinking ABOUT WHAT I WANTED I came to the decision that:

1) If I divorced her, in a best case scenario, I would loose my kids 50%. She may be an imperfect wife but she is a great mom. If I can see how good a mom she is, with how pissed I am at her, then no court in the world would take them from her. So my best case scenario is that I loose them 50%... I'm a guy, I'm guessing I would risk loosing them even more than that. I'm very involved with my kids, even at this age. My son and I are building a race car. I am involved with my daughter's sports team. I love them to death and would do anything for them... including deal with this. My kids gave me mental strength.

2) She said ,and is proving via her actions that, she wants to work on us. But... even though I would do anything for my kids, I knew that if her affair hadn't stopped, I would not have remained married to her. AND I am fairly certain she has maintained NC since Feb 2017. I still have my radar on, and trust is slow to rebuild.. almost a year out now and it's just starting to come back.

3) When I came to the conclusion to try and make it work I put a few limits on my efforts. Initially, I had a deadline of Oct 2017 to see some meaningful change between us. I started seeing change in her in May 2017, and in August 2017 she had made some significant admissions.... This encouraged me to extend the limit to 3 years. My youngest will graduate HS, and head into college at that time. This would simplify any separation. She continues to make progress. (I guess I got lucky)

4) I also know for a fact that any slip up by her. i.e. Her contacting him again, her getting close to another man will end us. There is no doubt about it in my mind. I don't have the time in life to deal with a second nightmare. My father was hit with a incurable genetic illness at 58, dead at 62. I'm 48. If I got too many of his genes, then I may only have another 10 years with any quality of life. If I kick the bucket early, I want my retirement and savings to go to my kids not my wife... so... I will need time to make that happen...I already have a trust.. it would need to be modified. One of the potential divorce issues. I cannot afford to give her another chance. I simply will not spend what is left of my life with infidelity. (That said, my grandparents all lasted into their early 90's.. so I'm hoping for that, but planning for the worst)

I don't know if I answered your question.. but those are my thoughts on sticking around.. I did draw a line around my commitment. If she steps over the line... I will act. I have to....

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