SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Just Found Out
User Topic: Just learned after 10 years about what my wife did.
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, March 3rd (Monday)

Iím new to this idea of discussing personnel info in public. Thank you in advance for your suggestions.
I have been married for over ten years and just found out that my wife when she was my girlfriend spent a weekend with a guy. That weekend happened to be the weekend I asked her to marry me.
At that time we were living together for many months, or at least I seemed to be spending almost every night at her apartment. I believed we had a committed relationship and I had thought about asking her to marry me; but was nervous about asking. Our being together seemed to be working (for me).
I had to be out of town on that particular weekend and my wife/girlfriend told me when I was leaving that she didnít know where our relationship was headed and she had a date that weekend with a guy she had just met; she met him Thursday and the date was for Saturday.
My reaction was anger, and I said, ďYOU CANT BE SERIOUS?Ē She was very calm and said after all the months we have been seeing each other she wasnít happy with our arrangement. We needed to talk when I got back from my trip. She said she felt as if our relationship wasnít going anywhere, and that we were always arguing. I thought she wanted marriage and this was a way to manipulate me. We argued even more before I left.
I was a virgin when I started dating her and she wasnít. I didnít think that her past experiences were important, but I realize now that there was an emotional element that was affecting me. I would ask her about her past, she was reluctant to discuss it, but I pushed for info. I thought I wanted info to know what to do to please her?
In the last months before my trip the tension between us was intense according to her. She has told me years later that she believed our relationship was ending and she was ready to move on; I didnít feel the same.
She has been the only women I have ever loved. I slept with her on our first date; it wasnít something I planned for; it just happened. We spent the entire day and evening together and I felt a connection with her that I never felt with anyone else. Sex was great but as I got to know her the sex became secondary to the emotional attachment I was developing for her.
Knowing she had a date was driving me insane with anger. She had slept with me on our first date and I knew she had slept with her other boyfriends on their first date; the horror was there, she would sleep with this new guy.
I knew she had the date set with this guy for Saturday evening. I decided to call her Saturday morning to ask her to marry me. Thinking she would say yes and the date would never happen. Who in their right mind asks women to marry them over the phone; I was scared of losing her.
When I called her she seemed distant and unresponsive to the emotional events of my phone call. She told me she couldnít talk at that moment and she would call me later in the day. She did, said yes and we were married six months later.
When I got back from my trip late Saturday evening, we celebrated and were romantic. At that time I disregarded my gut feelings that she seemed different, emotionally and physically when I touched her and she touched me. I just chalked it up to the excitement of getting married.
I never told her I was a virgin when we met; I led her to believe I had had some sexual relationships. My ego was involved. After we were married I would continue on occasions to ask her about her past relationships. I thought I was asking to get info about what she liked sexually. I just wanted the info, I was curious.
As the years past, and I would ask about her past boyfriends, I would find out little details she had never mentioned before about her past experiences. Then, one day I asked her about that guy she had met years before relating to the weekend I asked her to marry me. She said she didnít remember much and didnít want to talk about it. It wasnít important she said, after ten years why bring it up. Of course I pushed for info and it led to an argument and her telling me every little detail of what occurred between them.
He called her Friday night and asked if he could see her, she said yes and he slept over. When I called Saturday morning the two were in bed and involved physically with each other. Her lover picked up the phone and gave it to her to answer. Thatís why she was cool and indifferent. She said she never expected to her from me, or hear me ask her about marriage and she had believed our relationship was ending or over.
Itís my fault, I pushed for this information. Now that I know the details Iím an emotional wreck. It all happened ten years ago, but to me it feels like yesterday. Honestly if I had known ten years ago I would have walked. The thought of STDís and the other things she told me they did have created mental imagery that would make the porn industry blush; one thing , she never liked her guys to use condoms. The thought that we were intimate hours after he had left; Iím crazy with angry rage. Whenever I see a movie, TV show or any literature related to cheating it rekindles my anger. Sometimes when we are being intimate and Iím holding her all I do is think of him on her, and I have to get away from her.
I love my wife and I believe she cares for me. We have had our ups and downs, but our marriage seems to be a good one, I think. We have children; she is a great mother and wife. So why does something that happened 10 years ago anger me? Ten years ago my gut feeling had been right. Every time I think about her intimately involved with this guy it hurts; all I imagine are the mental pictures of what she told me they did together.
She has told me she has nothing to be sorry about, she thought our relationship was over. When I want to talk to her about it, she says let it go, it was ten years ago. But I want to know why she felt she needed to hop into bed with another guy. WE could have talked or argued. She could have said our time together was over, and then moved on, why she felt it necessary to hop into bed with this guy who she has said was an Adonis, I donít understand. She described him in very graphic detail as well as what they did.
She and I disagree about our relationship at that time. She says we also werenít living together, that I slept over some evenings and I had my own apartment. Yes I did, but I was hardly ever there, my brother was living in my apartment with his girlfriend all most all of the time. I believe this has been one of our serious issues, that we see things differently.
How do I deal with this?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
wewillmakeit
Member
Member # 26290
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, March 3rd (Monday)

You are understandably in emotional turmoil over this revelation. You are in the "trauma" stage. Is there a therapist or counselor that you could see? I think that you need to come to understand your feelings about this and identify what you want as an outcome. Then you can go to her with more specific requests.

Posts: 265 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Midwest
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, March 3rd (Monday)

I'm sorry. It's going to hurt and the only way you deal with it is....feeling it. Don't make any rash decisions yet. Let the feelings come (anger, sorrow, numbness), and if you can, turn to her to help you through them. Seeing a counselor or perhaps a pastor if you are religious is a great idea.

There is also a thread down in the 'I Can Relate' forum for people who find out years later where you might find some support.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
kalimata
Member
Member # 42104
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

As a man, I tend to agree with your wife. It seems she had no idea you were going to propose, and felt like your relationship was in the pits. So she had a one night fling with an ex-boyfriend, what is wrong with that?

BUT TAKE COMFORT IN THE FACT THAT SHE CHOSE YOU OVER LOVER-BOY!!!!!!! When you asked her to marry you, she said YES!! What more validation than that do you need my man?

Has she been continuously faithful to you since that time? If yes, then you need to move on and start thinking about more pleasant thoughts.

.....................Kali


Posts: 191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: USA
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

First of all, I'm very sorry you find yourself here. It's the best place to be under the circumstances, but no one should be placed in those circumstances.

Finding out about an infidelity years after the fact is difficult. Not only do you have the infidelity to contend with, but also (a) the fact that you've been lied to, daily, for the intervening time, and (b) the fact that, to the WS, this is OLD NEWS. She's processed it, and very likely will soon expect you to "just get OVER it."

Only it doesn't work that way. She's had a decade to make it all right in her mind. You have not. You will go through the WHOLE lengthy process now---and also have to make peace, somehow, with the notion that your wife was okay holding that lie, that enormous barrier to real emotional intimacy, between you for so long.

It's very, very difficult. Your wife doesn't sound like she's quite ready to own her actions fully. (It doesn't matter, even a little whether you were living together. You were in a relationship, and attempts to Ross and Rachel the situation really is not going to help you "get over it.") Hopefully she will reach a place of full personal responsibility and, with it, remorse before it's too late.

Sadly, those who are able to harbor lies for so very long often are NOT able to do the work required of a healthy and emotionally intimate relationship. At very least, I'd expect my WS to be doing some serious work to find out why this was okay with her. (Of course, this is something that has to come from HER. You can make IC non-negotiable, but if she's not really going to do the work, it's an exercise in futility. So what I'd really be looking for is a wife who desperately wants to find out what, inside of her, made this OKAY---and wants to gather the emotional tools necessary to ensure that she never, ever is as careless with another heart, or her own, again.)

(ETA: Please note that not all of the responses you receive will be thoughtful and backed by experience. The vast majority of posters respond carefully and thoughtfully, but not all do. I'm not naming names, but if a response seems to stand out from the others as being out of place, please don't allow it to bother you.)

[This message edited by solus sto at 7:14 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8841 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
tigerlsu
New Member
Member # 42525
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

So very sorry for the revelation of this affair so very long ago. I don't think that the 10 year span makes it any better or easier to hear. I agree with the response that she did choose you over the one night stand.
I asked for all of the details too of my husbands affair and now I regret it. I just have the details playing in my head like a bad movie that I can't turn off.
It's hard now, but you need to work on forgiving her. I just pray " as an act of my will, I choose to forgive....." It's hard at first and my heart is still not in it, but I know that unforgivness is only going to hurt me. When I pray that prayer, the bad movie stops. I have to do it several times a day. I hope that one day I will really feel the forgiveness and that the details become less and less haunting for me.
Has she been faithful during your 10 years of marriage? If so, take hold of that truth and remind yourself that she loves you!
Take care of yourself and try not to push her away during this time.

Posts: 5 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: virginia
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Itís funny that all her past sexual experiences donít matter and have never been an issue with me. I only think of them within the context of information about how to please a woman. I donít dwell on it, fantasize about it or even really think about it. They all occurred before I knew her. When I would ask her about her past boyfriends and her sexual experiences with them, itís as if Iím talking about a stranger. It is just information I might have read in a novel or magazine. The only one that hurts is the one that happened when I was dating her. Why canít I let that go? As she said, it happened in another life time, it was so long ago. But the imagery and visions are as clear today to me, as they were the days they occurred. I despise what happened, his hands, body parts and fluids all over her. I realize it canít be undone. I know that my ego is involved as well as my identity as a man; she was my women, not to be shared with someone else; this is hell.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
kalimata
Member
Member # 42104
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Stu: what you are experiencing is actually quite natural.

There are primal urges within men to stake claim to your woman. This urge is incredibly strong and sometimes irrational, as you rightly point out. This feeling that 'your woman' was taken by someone else brings out the fears, emotions and traits that were bred into us long ago during the Neolithic era. These traits help us to survive and propogate our genes further.

Go to your wife. Tell her you are hurting and need her support. Ask for a hug. Keep talking about this fling and DEFINITELY DONT SWEEP UNDER THE RUG. Go see a counsellor together. Eventually the feelings will die down, I promise.


Posts: 191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: USA
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

She has no remorse and considers that what she did was OK since she felt that she wasn't committed to you at the time. In that case she should not have agreed to marry you when you phoned. She had great sex with this other guy, didn't have strong feelings for you and yet she said yes when you proposed? Then knowing she had the other guy's fluids inside of her had sex with you too? Tacky.

The other thing that is bothersome is her sadism. She tells you all of the porn star stuff she does with her Adonis which she knows hurts you. Was that necessary? Almost as if she is asserting her independence; that she was free to give her body to whoever she pleases until she committed to you, which was after the sex with Adonis unfortunately.

Get the feeling that you are a lot more emotionally committed to your wife than she is to you. You need to evaluate your relationship and analyze whether it is appropriately 'balanced'; then adjust your attitude accordingly. Start by not discussing this betrayal with your wife anymore; its counter-productive and you won't get your wife to see things differently. You will just come across as insecure and lacking in confidence, which will weaken your relationship.



Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Stu,

I believe that this is a communication issue with your wife, more than it is anything else. I am not trying to minimize your pain in the least---but this seems to be more of a betrayal by deceit, than an act of infidelity.

Gently here, friend:

Honestly if I had known ten years ago I would have walked.

I think that you really need to evaluate, and re-evaluate this statement. You KNEW that she was going to sleep with this guy. And your response was to "beat him to the punch" by asking her to marry you. Is that any way to start the beginning of a lifetime relationship? Did you assume that once she said "yes", all of her poor behavior would just disappear? Or was your insecurity overtaking your rational thought process?

I am not saying this to be a jerk. What I am saying is that your engagement started on a terrible foundation. Your wife is wrong, wrong, WRONG--in thinking that she did nothing wrong. Almost narcissistic in her behavior. But if you do have a 10 year marriage that you believe is decent except for her deceit, then I believe that the two of you should work on it. Again, communication is key. If you realize that she doesn't have, and may never had contained, the empathy that you feel you need, then you may look deep to see if you want to stay where you are.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

You could have put your wife on the spot by asking some simple questions:
1] In this country, young women who accept marriage proposals are deeply in love with their prospective husbands. Whats the point in getting married if you're not.
2] Presumably your then fiancee was deeply in love with you just before you asked to marry her.
3] If she was, how come she had sex with this Adonis guy? If you strongly love someone, it certainly puts the brakes on having/wanting unprotected sex with other men. She's supposed to be hankering and lusting after you. Just you.
4[ If she is capable of deeply loving you, but also having mind blowing sex with other guys how can you ever trust her? Has she done this during her marriage?

Maybe you have some serious problems in this relationship.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

In response to a previous post he was not an ex-boyfriend. He was a guy she had just met a day or two before I was leaving for an out of town trip; there was premeditation on her part. She had said he was the kind of male women desire, she said he was an Adonis. So when he asked for her phone number, she gave it to him; she could have refused. That info certainly added to my trauma. I still, even after more conversations with her canít fathom why she did what she did. If she loathed me that much, why didnít she just break up with me? I would have been emotionally hurt, but we both would have moved on to someone else. When I asked her how she would have felt if it was me who had that weekend affair, she said she would have left me. So where am I? I have been married just over ten years; have children, house and a wife I love and hate at the same time. I donít want this marriage to end and I donít think she does either. When I mentioned counseling, she said that if she went, the marriage would problem be over. Why did she say that?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

I am also confused by he statement about counseling ending the M. If anything it should strengthen you as a couple.

I think you'd be within your rights to say you expect the two of you to go as part of your healing and to process what happened and improve the M.

To me this discovery in and of itself should not torpedo your M, however it should be spoken about and addressed and MC should probably be part of that.

Maybe she's afraid of starting to be honest. However honesty should be the glue between you and if it's not THAT is an even bigger problem than the ONS.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Hi Stu23. I'm very sorry you are here. I can feel the pain in your words. I say this to you as gently as possible and I don't want to plant any seeds. But, stepping back reading your three posts this is what I hear:

Your wife shows no remorse for what she did that weekend. It sounds like to her it's no big deal.

Your wife shows no empathy for you. Get over it Stu. It was another life time ago.

She says she won't go to MC with you. Why?

Strike 3. I don't want to plant a seed if there is truly nothing there, but my gut is telling me differently. She at the very minimum should have empathy and apologize for what she has done. I would be down on my hands and knees with my wife begging to hold her...because I love her and don't want her to suffer. Anything to help her with her pain. I don't see any of that. In fact, when you reach out to her I see her flinch. What is she hiding? Is there something else there? Doesn't have to be another affair that she had, could be a problem that she has with the marriage. Again, I can't stress enough that it could be nothing but my gut says otherwise. I see a big red flag. At the minimum she is not willing to help you get over it. WHY? What other issue does she have?

Wishing you strength and courage to get through this Stu.

ETA - Why tell you about that weekend 10 years ago now? What is she trying to accomplish? I she truly trying to clear her conscience...but there would be some sort of remorse with that. Or is there another reason for telling you?

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 1:13 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

I suppose one thing comes out of this quite clearly - you are more emotionally invested in this marriage than she is. It was this way right from the start, where she screwed a hot stranger she fancied in spite of you begging her not to. She doesn't seem to respect or value you too highly and the message is that you are a guy she settled for; not too happy about her choice; could have done better, but you will suffice as the father to her children and overall companion. From your posts, you can't even state that she loves you with any degree of confidence.
our marriage seems to be a good one, I think

I would be concerned about her willingness to hurt you when discussing her salacious cheating and then have the nerve to tell you she would have left if you had done the same. There is a marked lack of respect for you as a partner and I would be vigilant with regard to any future male friendships she may initiate.

When you take into account her contempt for counseling, her overall attitude is not very conducive to a secure relationship.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

I donít know if my lament will be read by anyone else at this point. I find writing down thoughts as they jump into my consciousness to be helpful in my confronting the agony of my wifeís sexual weekend with her lover. Having read the suggestions and thoughts of all, I am thankful that there are strangers who care; it helps to keep me sane and rational in this time of stress.
How could the women I love, and have been intimate with, have jumped into bed with a stranger and had unprotected sex? Every person he had sex with, she had sex with; then so did I! I know she was on the pill, butÖ? As I had mentioned we had sex when I returned home that evening and her lover had left her only a short few hours before. There was fresh semen swimming around when I got there. Please excuse the graphic detail, I need to state it, shout it out loud, this isnít a locker room joke, it hurts emotionally. I know this is ten years later, but it is as fresh as that sperm was. I hate her, I love her, I WANT TO SAY IíM SORRY IT HAPPENED, but I didnít do anything to deserve this. Why do men or women do these things to the people they supposedly care about? If she thought our relationship was over, ok, tell me. But donít sleep with your Adonis and then except my proposal of marriage a few hours later.
I found my wifeís pre marriage diaries in a box in the basement; I donít think she even know we still have them. She and I got rid of all that old stuff years ago; at least I thought we did? It was under her parentís possessions we got after they passed away. This box was probly mixed with her parents stuff, it wasnít marked.
I did something I never thought I would do. But I felt forced emotionally, I had to read her diary. I should have burned it. I found out that she was sleeping with her previous boyfriend when we started to date. She had told me they had broken up, but they were sleeping together the first 2 or 3 months after I started seeing her.
There were more details about her weekend with her Adonis she never told me, maybe to spare me more emotional grief. Her dates name and phone number was there and she said he was gorgeous and referred to him as an Adonis; a womenís fantasy fulfilled in every way possible. She described his body in detail and there were a few Polaroid type pictures (17) of him and her in bed (graphic) naked. Her entries described their activities over the weekend, sexual and non-sexual. HE EVEN LEFT ENTRIES in her diary about his time with her. He described in graphic detail language the physical activates he did to her and what she did with him. Iíve been married to her for just over ten years and we havenít done those things; and she only knew him for a day or two. He wrote that I must be an ďÖhole.Ē He wrote that he heard me ask her to marry me and laughed, then had an orgasm; I said earlier they were in the act. He closed his paragraph with, ďIíve left you well lubricated for your boyfriend and if you need a refill just call me. You have my name and number.Ē These words were seared into my thoughts. Since we were married months later and my wife became pregnant 2 to 3 weeks after that my twisted imagination began to think maybe my son might be his, he isnít. Iím well aware how long sperm can thrive, but reading the details of their weekend together did a job on my imagination.
I didnít know it at the time but he worked in the neighborhood we lived in. I would run into him occasionally and he would say high and ask me how my girlfriend was doing, and smile. He had met us walking to a store one day. I didnít know who he was at the time; I just thought he was a friendly person from the neighborhood. A few months later we were married and around that time he said he heard about the marriage and wished me well. He also made a few joking remarks about my wifeís ďcharmsĒ and implied she must be draining me to exhaustion with a certain action. They were a little graphic; I just assumed he was kidding around and dismissed it. But finding out years later about her time with him, I now understand how he knew her.
The fact that I have a face and body to go with what happened that weekend doesnít help me recover or stay mentally ok. EVERYWHERE I LOOK I SEE THEM MESHED TOGETHER AS ONE. I touch apart of her body, heís touching that part, I kiss her, and heís kissing her. I canít stop the pictures. At times it is as if Iím him touching her, itís that strong a felling, a loathing hatred.
I talked with my wife about all of this. She broke down and cried the way I have never seen her before. She told me how a boyfriend she dated for months when she was 18 and loved, took her virginity and made her feel like a slut. She said a number of his guy friends would ask her out on a date and she was excited that guys were calling for dates. At the end of the date they expected to have sex with her. She said that when she told them no, a few got physical and had sex with her. She said it was easier to give in than fight with them. They told her their friend said she was an ďeasy lay.Ē She said that since she was no longer a virgin she had nothing to save. When she dated a guy and he wanted sex she wanted to please him and had sex. She said she wanted his approval and love. She then admitted she had a very low opinion of herself and sex seemed to be a way to feel better and elevate her self-esteem; but of course she realized it didnít. She also said that sex with the right person was fun and pleasurable. She said if guys could enjoy it why not her.
I COULD GO ON, BUT WHY? She and I have a lot of work to do. If anyone responds, I will respond as well. At this point our lives are an open book.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

I know far to well what you are going through. My husband has been my first and only and we've been together for 10 years. 9 years dating and 1 year married. I found out after I got married that he saw 3 different woman at the beginning of our relationship in the first 3 years of us dating. Found out by saved messages, list of girls he was with (3 after mine), and phone records. I just recently discovered that after he would talk to me on the phone he'd call her and talk to her for sever hours. WHO DOES THAT?? I'm currently going through counseling because I want to be with him and save my marriage. He said he never thought our relationship was gonna go any where because of our age difference and he wasn't married to me (saying that's when commitment starts). I've been told by many to move forward and work on the great relationship that we have together. Do I believe that he will cheat on me again? No, but it will always be in the back of mine because he did it while we were dating. So I ask you, how you really feeling? Are you more hurt that you just found out and she lied to you all this time? Or hurt she was with someone else?
I am mainly hurt because I was lied to for all these years?


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

Stu

You said you love your wife. And obviously your wife loves you.

She was "easy" when you met her.

That is the past.

Did she lie to you? Yes.

But you married her for who she is.

You can go on for the next ten years crying about the what happened ten years ago.

Or

You can hold her accountable, help her get to the bottom of why she had no self esteem and both of you can dedicate the rest of your lives to each other and your family.

You need to stop your imagination of the past and focus on your future together.

HM

PS
Drop a turd on the OM's car if you ever run into him again. It will make you feel better.
PSS
Burn your wife diary with her.

And leave the past in the past.


Posts: 899 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

I believe that my wife has never cheated after that one weekend. Yes I know she kept a secret for 10 years, but I trust her. All of this hurts, but if I knew sooner I believe I would have left. We would not have had enough time to invest in each other. Itís not the lie, or the time, itís that she gave herself to another person. That he held her naked body, and she held his. They did physical things to each other with enjoyment. I was her boyfriend, lover, I trusted her with my life and she for whatever reason slept with her Adonis. As I read her diaries it was evident that comparisons were made between me and her Adonis. He made comments about me and presumed performance ability that she didnít change or correct. He did have a magnificent body and I after seeing the pictures and having met him could understand a women lusting after him. But she should have been committed to me, or had given me my walking papers. I was in great shape too; I worked out, surfed, and was good looking also. This is not a competition, she was my girlfriend and I did want her as my wife and mother of my children. When I kissed her and held her in my arms, the emotion was electrifying. The world could have ended and we would have survived. No matter what happened, I felt safe and I would do anything to make her happy. In our early years of marriage I worked 3 jobs and she worked also. We made it work; the time we spent together was special. Now I have mixed feelings. As I said, when I touch her itís him. I smell her, itís his, masculine smell. It just isnít the same. I live with this 24/7.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

This will play over and over in your head, give it to GOD (if your religious) that's what I do everyday. I do to think about how he held them, if he held them the way he held me, thought of them the way he thought of me, and cared for them the way he cared for me. But that's going to eat you up inside if you keep thinking that. If you believe she's committed move forward and build your life on what you've done with her. Think of this as something Before Marriage. You just know you have higher morals than what she does and you know that you did nothing wrong. If you continue down this path you're only going to make it worse.
Cheating is a bad thing, I was also told if they slept with them you slept with them also. But that really isn't the case. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG but love her.
Are you really wanting to throw something away that took you many years to be where you are today? If you get divorce or leave could you stand to see her with another man?


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

I am getting the feeling that you simply want to be heard and understood by your wife.. Not be told that you are crazy or have your feelings dismissed..

If your wife respects and considers your feelings, I sense that your hurt and anger will run its course and you will be able to put this behind you sooner as something that happened before marriage..

Having and communicating respect for your (each other's) feelings may be the underlying issue..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1251 | Registered: Nov 2011
Uhtred
Member
Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

Man I sure hate to hear all of this for you. It really sucks. Your now wife should've given you an opportunity to make an informed decision on your future by telling you the truth before she married you.

It seems that she has had no problem cheating on you in the past and I wouldn't put it past her to have done it again. I haven't read this whole thread yet but you are in shock just as if it just happened. Stay strong man. You two are going to need some counseling. I'm not trying to plant seeds in your mind but I'd do some investigating to make sure there isn't more.


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
ďYet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a swordĒ

Posts: 616 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

Most of us can remember the romantic moment of the marriage proposal with fondness. What have you got; another guy was ejaculating into your wife as you asked the question. One hell of a memory.

On top of that when you saw her later she made sure you had sloppy semen seconds from the Adonis. Does she have any respect for you?

The conclusion is that she was possibly not in love with you when she married you; in essence you were a meal ticket or a guarantee she would not be 'left on the shelf,' or an opportunity to start a family very soon. Wouldn't waste any time buying this lady flowers or preparing candlelit dinners. The word romance is not in her vocabulary.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

I know if I leave her, my memories will travel with me, the good and the bad. If I WERE TO MEET ANOTHER WOMAN, I will still think of her and him. I donít want to leave my wife, I love her, she has been the only women I have ever really known and loved. I donít want anyone else. Unfortunately I am not a person who forgets. I donít know how to let go. I learned about all of this a few months back and just found this site. The suggestions have been good, but Iím not ready to let go Iím to mad and upset. Each and every day I replay the Polaroid pictures that were in my wifeís diary as well as sometimes re-read the passages. They are quite graphic. I find that when Iím intimate with my wife Iím always turned on and we both are fulfilled. Sometimes I think about the pictures and itís like a porn surge and the sex is unbelievable. Other times itís a catalyst for anger and I want and sometimes hurt her because Iím not gentile or lovingly passionate, I may stroke or squeeze her to hard. Itís like Iím using her as a slut. I feel guilty afterwards and apologize. She knows something is eating at me, she tells me Iím not being tender. All of these feelings are new. My wife and I have always found intimacy between us wonderfully exciting. But now things have changed, IĎm bring up personal info that my wife shared with me in a negative way. The other night I wanted to get romantic and my wife wasnít interested. Instead of holding her and watching TV like we have always done, I said ďYou never had any problem putting out for your old boyfriends, and you certainly made your body wide open for your Adonis lover; arenít I good enough for at least a BJ,Ē and then we argue. This whole thing is warping me; I donít like the person Iím becoming.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

This is directed to "OK now." Thank you for your direct response, your short statement divinity summarizes what has been eating at me and I was afraid to face it. What am I to do every year when the day I proposed rears its ugly head? How do I celebrate this occasion? Do I get flowers and congratulate her for having sex with another guy? Do I get a card that says congratulations for getting well lubed for me? Or do I ask her to do some of the activities to me that she did with her Adonis that Iíve never experienced with her? What about the fact I was denigrated to a second class male relegated to sloppy seconds.
You are probably right; she never loved me or really cared. She told me that she didnít think our relationship was going anywhere, so she has sex with her Adonis. What woman does this? Why didnít she just end it with me? She was keeping her options open. She knew I loved her, or at least I thought she did. Why would she say yes to someone she didnít like after having all of her orifices filled with another guys fluids. Your maybe right, she didnít want to be left on the shelf, nobody else asked her; just this ďÖhole.Ē Her Adonis called it right when he described me! But even after what I just wrote, she has been my wife for over ten years and she has shown that she cares. Or has it all been a lie?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:02 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

What happyman64 said.

She said a number of his guy friends would ask her out on a date and she was excited that guys were calling for dates. At the end of the date they expected to have sex with her. She said that when she told them no, a few got physical and had sex with her. She said it was easier to give in than fight with them. They told her their friend said she was an ďeasy lay.Ē She said that since she was no longer a virgin she had nothing to save. When she dated a guy and he wanted sex she wanted to please him and had sex. She said she wanted his approval and love. She then admitted she had a very low opinion of herself and sex seemed to be a way to feel better and elevate her self-esteem; but of course she realized it didnít. She also said that sex with the right person was fun and pleasurable. She said if guys could enjoy it why not her.

Just because she has remained faithful(you believe) for 10 years, does not mean that she has rid herself of her problems. At this point, they may even be harder to deal with---but that doesn't mean they can be ignored.

You have just learned that your whole marriage started off with cheating and lies. That terrible foundation that I stated earlier. But this can't be undone, so where do you go from here? It starts with BOTH of you having the proper mindset to want to fix this mess. Resistance to communication and counseling will be indicators of where your marriage will inevitably end up. She has to want to resolve her past issues, and you will have to want her to do so. You should also seek counseling as to why you needed to propose to her, when you KNEW that she was going to sleep with a guy. You may learn to discover things about yourself that you didn't realize.

It is all part of the two of you strengthening your marriage.

Regretfully, there will be immense pain ahead....for both of you....if the two of you truly commit to reconciliation. If your wife won't explore her core problems, then at least you will have a definite answer of where you are prioritized in her life....and can make decisions based off of that. It may suck, but it will be progress.

Are you willing to go this route?


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 6:40 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

I concur. jb said it perfectly. In my previous post I alluded to the fact that she may be hiding something and that is why she didnt want to go to MC. Safe to say you found it and she's hiding from herself. IC for both of you friend.

You guys can do this.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
Ellejay
Member
Member # 30498
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Your maybe right, she didnít want to be left on the shelf, nobody else asked her; just this ďÖhole.Ē Her Adonis called it right when he described me!

Now lets get this straight. Just because two immature, emotionally repressed, sexually charged buffoons managed to get together one weekend 10 years ago, doesn't make YOU an a-hole.

I am sure that if you wife looked at her diary now 10 years later and with a brain filled with more than her ego, she would probably die with her leg in the air at how crass and immature the whole thing was. If not, you have bigger problems than her previous sexual promiscuity.

I can fully understand how you must feel. It was totally disrespectful not only to you but also to herself even with the excuse that she thought your relationship was going nowhere.

If you truly feel she has been faithful to you all these years then you are going to have to find a way to put this in the vault and throw away the key. That is going to take a little while my friend but that's OK. She married you because after the blood returned to her head from her giddy, sexual somersaults, she realised what a moron she was and how great a catch you were.

When things have settled down perhaps you could consider re-writing history and reenacting your proposal in a way that will replace the present revolting imagery. If it's any consolation, I'm sure she would prefer to have a more romantic memory of the event that she currently has.

You have 10 years of history and beautiful children. What has the idiot, brain-dead "Adonis" got? A big dick? Well, big deal. Next time you have the pleasure of bumping into him tell him that you've just heard that silicon implants for the brain have now been invented and you feel he would look so much better with a couple. Just make sure you've got your running shoes on at the time.

You are right to feel violated and disgusted but your wife's past doesn't have to be your future. Keep posting here, get your feelings out. Hopefully you can also find a good counselor either for yourself or with your wife so you can move forward from this.

Thinking of you.


EJ


Married 25 years now divorced.
D-Day: 20/11/10
Me: 48.5 plus 10% GST
Him: mental age 6 (apologies to all 6 year olds)
Betrayal: Who cares anymore?

Posts: 1096 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Adelaide, South Australia
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

The words 'I love you' are bandied about in most relationships with virtual flippancy; IMO the words don't mean at lot; I would settle for healthy respect and thats what is missing in your marriage. At least it started out that way and you need to sit down with your wife and find out just how much status you have in her eyes; what level of respect does she have for you after 10 years have passed.

If you continue with the anger and distress she will begin to draw away from you and your relationship will be damaged. That means as well as coping with the memories of her betrayal, you will be faced with having to repair a broken marriage. It will negatively impact your children as well.

Talk to your wife and calmly explain how you see the Adonis incident; how utterly unromantic it was; such a degrading squalid, memory that stains your marriage and forces you to question her love for you and the reasons she married you in the first place. Its important to talk to her in emotional terms not the physical aspects of the Adonis sex. She will be sensitive to your emotional pain but not the chest beating 'my woman gave herself to another man' perspective. Discuss her treacherous betrayal in her language; how she would be impacted if you had done this to her.

In the end the pain needs to managed by you. If the marriage is to continue harmoniously then you need to state your disgust at her sluttish behavior then let it go, keep it to yourself and move on. You are not free to push this into her face at frequent intervals or the marriage and especially the sexlife, will be considerably damaged.

State your point of view and how you have been forced to see the marriage, tainted by her disgusting, disloyal behavior, in a different light, then move on. Let her digest her shame but drop the issue, or things will get very much worse I promise.

Really like the post from Ellejay and I fully agree. You are not an asshole!

[This message edited by OK now at 7:18 AM, March 6th (Thursday)]


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

I found out about what my husband did (boyfriend at the time) 6 months ago and I cry, hate him, and try to forgive. This is going to take some time believe me. I had to get on Xanax to forget all this crap. We believe that they were feeling the same way we were and it just wasn't the same. I don't know what to do and I'm taking it day by day. He tries to blame ME and tell me to move on but there are still questions in my head. They won't go away it's just that you have to see if you want to be with your wife or not.
I can hold on to a grudge for so long and I fear that I will always hold on to it as well.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

Thank you all. I KNOW Iím not an ass, but when I get angry and relive her sexual experience the rage mushrooms into hate and loathing of her and even me at times. I try to mask it by finding things to do away from the house, it isnít working. I think Iím going crazy. As I try to live with this, strange thoughts run through my mind.
I tell myself that I can intellectually accept her sleeping with another dude. This is going to sound strange, but proud that someone else wanted her, and I donít mean it in a sexually perverted way either. This even, I tell myself seems to bolsters my ego that I have something that others wanted. The sex act can be just a physical event like tennis, football, dancing, playing cards, but a closer contacted sport. I know this sounds crazy. But this is me rationalizing. (IT IS CRAZY, I DONíT BUY IT, why did I even think it?) Then my thoughts return to the two of them naked, doing things to each other that excites the prurient deviant nature in us, and my anger rages again. Remember, I have pictures of the two of them together and the descriptions in her diaries. Why did she do it, was it to hurt me? Why did she let him write in her diary? I never did that, I didnít know she kept a diary until many years into our marriage.
Your telling me to lock it away sounds easy, I CANíT. Iím too close to the information at this time.


Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

You can private message me any time and we can discuss our feelings together because I am in the same position you are.
My H kept a book a list of all the women he has ever slept with. Of course I didn't mind the ones before me except the one because he lied to me that he never did.(she had actually slept with my brother) I stated that I would never sleep with anyone who has slept with anyone that was my family.
The list he had, had 2 girls name after mine and I happen to run into a letter from a former girlfriend about meeting up in another town to have sex. So I know exactly how you're feeling.
I'm still in the anger and emotional stage and it's been 6 months, the thought running through my head happen all the time.
His reasoning like your wife's is that he said he thought we would never make it and that he had no plans on getting married. In fact he states it wasn't cheating because we were just "dating"
It's a hard road and you should know you're not alone.
Question is, can we move on from it?


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
Ellejay
Member
Member # 30498
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

No you won't be able to lock it away because she has drawn pictures for you literally. Not only that, you have to look her in the face every day and try not to see her with the OM which is just about impossible at this stage.

I feel for you I really do. I guess in time and with her doing a hell of a lot of reassuring and showing remorse for her incredible lack of judgment, you may get to a place where you can put it in a drawer but you are a long way off from that.

My idiot ex H had planned to film himself with at least one of his OW. I am so glad I didn't have the trauma of finding any of that as I would have been physically sick.

If your wife thought that having the kind of sex she had with her Adonis was keeping her "options" open then she had a very warped sense of her self worth at the time. Not a good move to show just how experienced you are on the first date. I don't know the age of your wife but it is all incredibly immature stuff and a huge price to pay.

You are supported here stu23. Hugs to you.


EJ


Married 25 years now divorced.
D-Day: 20/11/10
Me: 48.5 plus 10% GST
Him: mental age 6 (apologies to all 6 year olds)
Betrayal: Who cares anymore?

Posts: 1096 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Adelaide, South Australia
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I am so sorry ((Stu23))

I think after she saw the proposal was real she began to try and cover this up. I mean if you knew the truth would you have gone through with the engagement. She never really gave you an option by giving you all of the information you needed to decide if you wanted to still M her or not. She lied and duped you into Ming her. I understand that must feel extremely upsetting to you. At the end of the day that is the issue you have with her. She did not tell you the truth. She lied. She has proven to you she is not who you thought she was when you married her. She accepted your proposal under false pretenses.

You mentioned enough about your W for me to know that there are deep traumas in her past too. Often times a person acting from a deep sense of personal pain cannot act like a somewhat more healthy person could do. In a bubblegum psychology take on it would be that her traumas have caused her to resent men in general. Any man close to her in her life will play the role of a man who has hurt her deeply in the past. Sadly Stu that was/is you. She was doing anything to you in particular, she was trying to get even with all of those guys over the years that victimized her. She wanted to feel less like a victim and more like a perpetrator. In her messed up mindset those are the only two roles available. Sleeping with you on a first date isn't a good sign either. Most women or even girls wouldn't act that way.

She was and still is to some extent "broken." There isn't a better way to say it. She is going to have to work far enough along before you could work at repairing this M.

It seems that right now you are leaning towards working it out and that is very admirable of you. You have to decide if there is enough to save and weigh that against the cost of what you will have to endure to get there.

Nothing and I mean no amount of a traumatized past gives her a pass on her behavior. It can explain it enough that you could see how it was possible, but it never excuses her responsibility in this, ever.

At some point your M could be good again and you won't think about this as often. You will never forget so that leads to this next point.

Your telling me to lock it away sounds easy, I CANíT. Iím too close to the information at this time.

Since you are never going to forget something so traumatizing, for the rest of your lives, if the memory is hurting you, you have to lean on your W to help you through it. You know as you would in a healthy M about other topics. You don't use it to bash her, but you communicate you are feeling down thinking about it and she helps you. After all, she caused it, she could do that much. She can be redeemed through that too. That isn't today, that is a long time from now. Today you have to get some counseling and your wife, on some levels, needs counseling most urgently. IC for both before MC. MC isn't going to work for either of you until the traumas of the past can be examined and mitigated. MC is about the M going forward, IC is about working through the past so it doesn't follow you into the future.

Right not you are looking at events of the past with a "normal" mindset. It will never make sense logically because it isn't logical. Your W has never had that normal mindset. People with that mindset do not do the things she has done and carry on their lives. The guilt would eat them alive from the inside out.

FWIW- I thought our relationship was over is not a valid explanation. I am sure, right now, it looks like your M could be over. Does that mean you hop into the sack with the first willing woman? No it doesn't. Your W has had 10 years to justify this in her head and find a way to explain it away. She at first, is going to feed you that crap she has fed herself. Reject them all because I can tell you they are most likely crap.

Both you should talk to counselor individually ASAP. Only once this trauma calms down can you incorporate this history into your M. That alone is a lot of work, but if you love her it could be worth it.

As far as she did things with him that she would no do with you. That is something that plagues a lot of guys. I have never heard of or been told a rational or even an emotional explanation that even partially addresses it. Trust me I have looked. Everywhere.

One small comfort right now is that your W didn't have children with him or choose to stay faithful to him for ten years either. As much as we men think, looks don't always matter as much as character does to a woman. Think about this when you got engaged she had such a low opinion of men in general that she used and abused them. Over the past 10 years you have proven to her that there are some men out there who aren't bad at all. In fact they are everything a man is supposed to be. In essence your behaviors made her change her beliefs and showed her what a real man was all about. In this one area you've made so much progress, won a very large battle. It is not easy for someone with these kinds of problems to stay with someone for this long unless they are really special and more than worth it. Remember that next time you get angry. Also remember, don't let this experience change the good guy you are. Don't become too angry, abusive (vis-a-vis) the rough stuff in bed you mentioned).

The way I see it man, you got character in spades and a lot of women find that very attractive. The other guy doesn't have that and if you could find him today I'd bet you find a lonely washed A$$hole with no kids to carry on his legacy and a reputation he has earned through his actions. He is scum, don't compare yourself to scum. It is easy to see who the better man is.

You've earned the opposite reputation, no matter where your M ends up, don't through that away over something that was outside of your control.

Sorry for the length. I can tell you are hurting and hopefully some things I have said help you a bit.

PM me if you want to. When I was in your similar shoes I had some BH offer PM support. Happy to pay that forward.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2559 | Registered: May 2010
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

As I said in earlier posts I was a virgin when I met my girlfriend/wife, and she was a very experienced women; she was my very first and only sex partner. This didnít bother me at the time, we were both in our early twenties and we both made choices how and what we would do with our lives. I never had a problem getting a date and all of my relationships were enjoyable. Now, after my wifeís discloser to me, I find I am now dwelling on all her sexual experiences and lumping everything I know about them into my personal anger. Iím using it as ammunition to attack her. If we arenít romantic when I think we should be, I remind her that she did ďthatĒ with a boyfriend and arenít I good enough for the same thing. Iím very graphic in my description of what she did and what I now want. I know this is destructive, and Iím trying to stop. When I catch myself beginning to provoke I leave the house.
I just want to vent. I want her to comprehend what Iím going through. I donít think she does. I may be simplifying this, but to her I think it was just sex a physical act, no big deal it didnít mean anything. (I donít look at it that way.) Maybe thatís why she keeps saying, ďIt happened in another life, donít dwell on the past. I canít change it. Weíve got our life now.Ē

numb and dumb
Thank you for the time and thought in your comments. As I read your words I did get emotional and will use what you said to try and quell my anger.


Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I think its a valid argument that your wife had a very warped attitude about men and sex 10 years ago and if she has been faithful through the marriage, it would seem that you have helped to bring about a change in her.

If you continue with the rage and anger it could undermine all you have done. You obviously have been a very good husband and father and you have a perfect right to condemn your wife's actions and deplorable behavior all those years ago. You have right to tell her the marriage has been corrupted by her extreme disloyalty and pandering to her Adonis boyfriend. I agree its astonishing that she would accept your marriage proposal after the degree of her sexual perversions and treachery, but thats written in history and will be a part of her eternal shame.

I think your staying away from your wife as much as possible is a good idea. If you are not physically with her there can be no conflict and hostility. At the same time take a break from sexual relations for a few months until the pain eases. And it will.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I agree, I thought if I jumped in bed with my husband that the emotions would all change but it didn't. I've taken the time to not sleep with him and it has worked out.
You need to go into counseling if you want to stay married.
I've been going and it's helped me a lot. I know that I am a better person than what my husband is and I have no reason to hide my head in shame.
The other women have lost their homes, have no kids, and are what I see them as, WHORES!!
I'm married and I'm the one he chose to be with. If she hasn't showed you that she's been unfaithful since you've been married then what do you want?


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
Hosea
Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

Stu:

Man, I really can understand why you're struggling with this, and I know it's hard to believe, given your present distress, but you can channel these feelings towards positive outcomes. Many here have been through this or worse, so please keep sharing your struggles here-- you will get better advice here for FREE than in a year of marriage counseling!

Forgive me for my upcoming verbosity-- but I want just to join the chorus and offer more encouragement and perspective.

First off, I admire that you chose to remain a virgin until you married. Very few men or women do that in this day and age, and the fact that you did is truly commendable, and an incredible gift to your wife. I really, really mean that-- I wish to this day I'd done the same.

I know this discovery was humiliating, in light of the past comments by your wife about Mr. Adonis and his body, and the past disgusting comments BY Mr. Adonis about you. But listen, you've done nothing to be ashamed of and you've got MUCH to be proud of. The snide, sleaze-bag comments of some bygone serial bootyhound in a long ago time have no relevance or power to change that. (For all you know, he's an STD infected, beer-bellied, ten-times-divorced wretch by now. You can bet he's going to be a crappy, unfaithful husband who makes his wife/wives utterly sick at the sight of him...)

You, however, are the textbook example of a faithful husband. And, lest your Male Pride deceive you, this isn't weakness, it's strength. REALLY!

You're RIGHT to be bothered. Particularly that she kept that damn diary around! She needs to OWN that and needs to understand why it made her past transgression even harder to forgive. She needs to understand why it makes your wound so much deeper-- and be accountable for healing you and restoring your trust and respect. She need to appreciate that your real trauma is that her past and present actions have destroyed the preciousness of Your Marriage Narrative. What once might've been so romantic, so special to you has been stained and made sordid by the truth.

You will want VERY BADLY to punish her for her sins, but it is far, far better that you forgive them and she atone for them. Yes, you're hurt-- and yes, it's her fault! Let her know the depth of your wounds and give her a chance to make restitution. It will not change your past-- but it can change your future-- and that is where you're going next.

Try, if you can, to channel your anger and pain into productive outlets that will better yourself; hit the gym and become an Adonis yourself, developing your natural talents with renewed passion, whatever. Don't use your rage and pain to browbeat her about her past actions, or to coerce her to gratify you sexually so as to shame her and reinforce your own wounded pride.

Hurting her because she hurt you is "justice", but it's the Low Road and it leads to a lot more suffering. You're on the High Road, and it sounds like you've walked it your whole marriage and before. Give your wife a chance to walk it with you. Not because she's earned that privilege, but because you're the Better Man. And that's what Better Men do.


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

ďIt happened in another life, donít dwell on the past. I canít change it. Weíve got our life now.Ē

The only true part of that statement is that it can't be changed. It can be apologized for, restitution s made and forgiven, but it can't be changed.

No it it did not happen in another life. In happened in this life. She doesn't get that this is not the past to you. You found out about this recently. This is causing you to question the life that you now have and if you really want that life. No she has had the life for the past ten years. You have been manipulated for the past ten years and winder what else she has lied to you about. Trust has disappeared. That you and me forever feeling is in jeopardy.

DO NOT sweep this under the rug. You have a very valid concern. Your W needs to understand that M end over lies like this. I don't think she gets the severity of her lies.

What's done is done, but she has been lying about it for ten years. Very much relevant in any life she chooses to compartmentalize it into.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2559 | Registered: May 2010
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

Please, I have a nagging question about my wife. This has been eating at me and feeding my anger related to finding out about her weekend affair with the guy she called an Adonis. We have been married for just over 10 years and we have shared intimacies and romance that have fulfilled all our needs. Up until I found out about that weekend I believed we had a loving relationship with trust that permitted us as a couple to be able to lust after each other which met all the emotional intimate needs we both had. Iím sorry if this sounds like a convoluted way to ask this question. But as a naive person I donít understand how she could do things of a sexual nature with a guy she spent a weekend with that she wouldnít do with her own husband (I didnít think anything could be embarrassing between us) who supposedly knows her body inside and out; we did have 2 children together. I understand taboos and boundaries, but if she did things with him, why not with her husband. I may be way out in left field with this, but I need an answer. Iím trying to put pieces together so I can resolve this emotional trauma. I thought if I could diagram all of the pieces it might bring a resolution of some kind. If I have gone completely crazy, tell me that also. This doesnít excuse what happened or the deceit, Iím grasping at straws here. I haven't had much sleep or food at this point and may be loosing it.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 11:44 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I've read the majority of these posts, and I feel like I have a very different take on all of this. I want to share it with you because, if it helps, that's what I want to do. But, if it doesn't ring at all true for you, of course, please disregard and know that I don't say any of this with any malice.

I don't see what your wife did on that weekend as cheating. She informed you she was unhappy, that she had a date, that she needed to evaluate the state of your relationship. That is a lot more than many of us got from our unfaithful partners. She was transparent and tried to start a conversation with you.

She proceeded to do what she told you she was going to do. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see you explain why you didn't ask her about the date immediately after you returned (particularly if you sensed she was distant). But, putting that aside, you proposed to her and she made a judgment not to tell you directly about sleeping with this other man. This tells me that you both seem to have a severe communication problem that goes back to the period before your marriage. From her not telling you about this guy, to you not telling her you were a virgin and being cagey about your sexual past with her... from the outside it seems odd that the two of you seem to have been content with a relationship built on obfuscation.

And even now she seems afraid of MC and, by your own admission, you aren't relating to her in the ways you want to. I think MC and/or IC is essential for both of you to live more healthy and fulfilling lives in general.

I can tell you that when I first started dating my ex-husband, before we had a conversation about being exclusive, I slept with other men. And, no, I never told him about it. I know he had an ex-girlfriend still vaguely in the picture, and I didn't ask him about her. That may have been a misstep on my part-- to not stick my neck out and make either one of us accountable. Not because I would see either of us continuing to date freely before we had a firm commitment and expectation for the relationship set as "infidelity"... but because it showed a willingness to keep things hidden. To live separate lives. As others have said, I think that's a bad way to start a life together.

Of course your feelings of betrayal are perfectly valid, but I would push you that what you are experiencing here with her having slept with this man is the tip of the iceberg. I think there may be a lot more below the surface, which is why you are responding particularly strongly. I encourage you to go to IC on your own to explore this. And to come up with strategies to stop the mind movies you describe, to help you process your anger and to help you relate to your wife in more productive ways. You've taken a big step here by exploring your emotions and thoughts publicly. Opening up like that is a great instinct. I hope you continue to push yourself in that direction in order to help yourself heal.

Best of luck to you.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
TOMTEFAR
Member
Member # 39257
Default  Posted: 3:42 AM, March 7th (Friday)

But as a naive person I donít understand how she could do things of a sexual nature with a guy she spent a weekend with that she wouldnít do with her own husband

Have you asked her to do these things with you during your 10 year M? If not it might be that she doesn't particulary like those things but did them when asked.

Anyways, I'm of the oppinion that if a WS does things with the OM those things should from there on be done with the BS as well. For me that would be a deal breaker.


Posts: 107 | Registered: May 2013
Ellejay
Member
Member # 30498
Default  Posted: 6:03 AM, March 7th (Friday)

I think she did what she did with the other man because she knew he didn't matter. It was just a dirty weekend for both of them. It doesn't sound like she cared what he thought of her either and believe me, it wouldn't have been much. There was no emotion there and never would have been. On the other hand she does have an emotional relationship with you despite her previous lousy judgments. She has had your babies and it is you with whom she has the true and sacred history.

The sex she had with the OM sounds pretty mechanical in nature if I am reading between the lines. There is no way she would have felt great about it afterwards either especially once he had left and she had sobered up from her high. She probably doesn't even know why she behaved the way she did back then or why all that seemed so important at the time which is why she is brushing it off now. I know that doesn't do anything to help you when you are feeling deeply hurt.

As others have suggested I would strongly recommend you seek individual counseling for now even if your wife is reluctant to go herself.

(((((hugs)))))


EJ


Married 25 years now divorced.
D-Day: 20/11/10
Me: 48.5 plus 10% GST
Him: mental age 6 (apologies to all 6 year olds)
Betrayal: Who cares anymore?

Posts: 1096 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Adelaide, South Australia
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 6:23 AM, March 7th (Friday)

Your story is a very complicated one, after you discover the your wife's diaries. Having the knowledge of your wife's sexual behavior and history... Bring into question has wife faithful to me throughout are marriage, also knowing that she might have not really loved you at the time you too got married.
When I mentioned counseling, she said that if she went, the marriage would problem be over. Why did she say that?
Did you ever find out why she said that...?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, March 7th (Friday)

To put your mind at rest about your wife's reluctance to have Adonis sex with you, thats quite normal. With the OM she was probably submissive and open to experimentation; she didn't really care if it was pleasant or not since there was no future in this relationship and she could let him take charge and follow directions, so as to speak. She didn't care if Adonis thought she was a slut, in fact it was quite exciting; she could behave dirtily; act like a porn star; make outrageous, sluttish statements and generally be the wanton tramp the OM desired. She knew she wouldn't see this guy again; what did his opinion of her matter?

With you she needs to be seen as a respectable wife and mother; she needs dignity and respect. The image she wants is not a depraved whore, but a decent upstanding housewife who wants a loving, proper and dignified sex life. The stress is on emotional love, not perverted gymnastics and deviant excesses.

Sexual perversions = the 'sick' woman she use to be, who would screw around, allow herself to be abused and indulge in shameful acts of unnatural sexuality.
Loving relationship = what she has currently has and she will not allow acts of 'shameful depravity' to intrude and besmirch the purity of her union with you. Maybe she is afraid of the Madonna whore complex; to quote the dictionary:

A man with a madonna-whore complex is a man who will sleep with and have perverted lust for a sexual and beautiful woman, but he will never respect her as "wife" material

Being honest, there are certain sexual acts I am curious about, but I would never want to do these with my husband. I want to preserve my respectable, loving image with him; I cannot allow him to think of me as a slut even if it would excite him. No way.
Being a married woman with children confers respectability and I think your wife wants to distance herself from the shameful hussy of her youth. Indulging in 'unusual sex' undermines her preferred image of proper decency and the strongly favored emphasis on emotional love.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, March 7th (Friday)

I agree with OK now. As wives we would want to different kind of fantasy moves but we want our love making to be kind, gentle, and loving. Not like we are just a piece of ass to our husband. I'm not experience (for I've only been with my husband). When I imagine him with the other women he had, I see him doing things that I would never do with him because to me I see them as dirty whores and I know that's the way he viewed them as well.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, March 7th (Friday)

In response to Phantom Limb I never asked about her date because I thought it never happened. I called her Saturday morning to ask her to marry me. Her date with the guy was for Saturday evening. I didnít know that the two of them had hooked up Friday evening and that he slept over to Saturday morning when I called her. I just learned all the details recently, 10 years after the fact. The other thing Iím realizing is that if it had been just a dinner and a movie, that kind of a date it would not really have mattered that much to me. I would have been mad but I would have dismissed it and not given it another thought. Itís the fact she had sex with him; the pictures were in her diary. Maybe I could even have resolved this incident as well. But the two of them were exchanging body fluids at the time I was talking to her on the phone. In her diary I read that he heard my asking her to marry me and he was laughing as he discharged his fluids into her. How do you get rid of that picture from your mind? Then a few hours later that day I return home from my trip and we celebrate our engagement by being very romantic. He said in the diary that he left my girlfriend well lubricated for me. Iím excited about marrying my girlfriend and the two of us are being intimate and his sperm is mixing with mine. As Iím writing this Iím shaking and the tears are there. Please how do you deal with this picture? I understand counseling can help, but this picture is with me forever. I donít care if it happened 10 years ago, it happened.
And to Tomtefar it never dawned on me to ask her to do the things she did with her Adonis guy, what some of you called kinky sex stuff. During the marriage and even when living together, we did what we did sexually that pleased us both that we were comfortable with. I apologize to everyone if my language is embarrassing, and if I have broken any of this sites protocols, Iím sorry. But this is my marriage and Iím trying to salvage it.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, March 7th (Friday)

I promise that your mind movies will get better with time and counseling or finding some healthy way of letting your feelings out..

The fact that your D-day is recent for you is probably one of the reasons that you are so raw..

If you get through these feelings you will be fine whether or not the marriage survives..

Whether or not this is infidelity doesn't matter you have some bad feelings (about your wife) to process..

No escaping the feelings via alcohol or other addictions, or rug sweeping these feelings for the sake of the relationship

Like others have posted, it would be good to tell your wife of your hurt and your mind movies and do it in a gentle way..

Then see if she is willing to learn better communication skills with you and to respect your feelings better..

I'm not suggesting that you guys go to MC, just learn to communicate with each other better..

I do think each of you really need IC..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 12:22 PM, March 7th (Friday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1251 | Registered: Nov 2011
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Hi Stu. Please stop apologizing for speaking frankly. We are all adults here and your are dealing with graphic subject matter. Trust me, I have posted way worse myself than what you are posting here. It is good of you to have some class though too.

I can feel the pain in your words. Quite honestly I get a little emotional from reading your posts. It's ok to feel how you do. It's very natural to do so. The fact that this happened 10 years ago is irrelevant as you obviously are just finding out. I agree with doggiediva in that doesn't matter if it was cheating or not cheating or whatever we want to call it. Let's call it terrible, hurtful, horrific pain or whatever.

Reading back through your thread it looks like you have had some discussions with your wife. Your wife clearly had/has some issues. Now you are experiencing your own issues as a result of hers. All of these issues need to be addressed. It's easy for me to sit here and say go to IC, clearly you guys need it. But have the two of you really communicated with each other. As in REALLY listened to each other. I know you have listened to her express her past issues. Has she really listened to you on your current issues? Does she show any remorse? Those graphic images aren't going to go away in the short term, but if she can show you true remorse, that will be a good first step in healing. I know at first it didn't sound like she was remorseful. What has she said since? Have you asked her to help you with your pain? Have you asked her for what your needs are?

ETA - edited grammar above

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 12:50 PM, March 7th (Friday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Your last post was heartrending and painful to read. What does your wife say when you tell her the same words concerning her treachery? When you describe what was happening at the time of the marriage proposal and how she 'romantically' ensured that your semen would mix with his?

Does she shrug her shoulder and brush it off? Show intense remorse? Apologize in a 'get over it' tone? Say nothing? Or act defensively? Her response is key to your healing. We can offer advice and support but her reactions are much more critical.

Her failure to tell you about her Adonis sexual experience when you proposed in indefensible, but do you have any idea whether she actually enjoyed this sex or not? Maybe she was the passive partner and never really had an [O] for example. If she just lay there it might be easier to accept her attitude. From her perspective if she wasn't emotionally involved with this guy then she wasn't making love to him and it didn't matter so much. A woman's interpretation of lovemaking is generally different than a mans and betrayal is often an emotional issue not physical. So if she considered she had not really betrayed you, then it was OK to accept the marriage proposal and say nothing about the torrid sex.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, March 7th (Friday)

To those of you who have told me that my wifeís Adonis boyfriend she had sex with would amount to nothing, and that he was scum, I found info about him using a service I have access to on the internet. Using the information from my wifeís diary, name and other details he had written in her diary, I found this info about him. He earned his undergraduate degree from Yale University and attended the Brown/Dartmouth Program in Medicine, receiving his MD from the Brown University School of Medicine. He lives a few miles from me and practices medicine in the next town. He married his wife about a month from the date I proposed to my wife; thatís the weekend of their sexual contact. He also has children. Will I try to find him, NO; it wonít change a thing. He didnít do anything wrong. He saw a pretty woman and asked her for her phone number and got what he wanted from her. My girlfriend/wife could have refused, she didnít and the rest is history. The ALPH MALE wins again.
In hind sight do I wish I had been a player, someone who had different women as often as I would have liked, YES. I had opportunities; I could have screwed arowned then settled down and had tails to tell my guy friends about. What do I tell my male friends now, for good times call my wife? What do I have now, a wife who did every guy who wanted her. Her history reads like a teenage boys dream. Iím working two jobs to support my family and a wife who was a party animal. How could counseling work. Iím at the lowest point in my life. I just donít know what to do!

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
bluewater
Member
Member # 9297
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, March 7th (Friday)

stu,

I have been a member here for more years than I care to admit and ALL the stories of betrayal are terrible. Unfortunately some stand out from the others by the brutality of the betrayal.

Unfortunately yours is one I won't forget. What she is did was beyond cold and brutal. And honestly I don't have any words of advice that would help you getting over what you read and saw.

And I too wonder at why she says this:

When I mentioned counseling, she said that if she went, the marriage would problem be over.

Suggests me there is probably more going on than you are aware of.

Sorry you are here.


Posts: 489 | Registered: Jan 2006
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, March 7th (Friday)

I am not saying you should do this, but generally speaking the advice in most infidelity situations is to expose.

He probably had a fiancee who later became his wife at the time.

He married his wife about a month from the date I proposed to my wife; thatís the weekend of their sexual contact.

I doubt that they had a month long engagement. If he was so keen on disrespecting you, maybe you return the favor and tell his wife. Not saying you should, but that option is available to you. Remember what I said about being a good man and being able to say that with a clear conscience.

With him being so close, are you certain your wife has never had contact with him again ? Keeping compromising Polaroids and journals doesn't lead me to think what they had was completely devoid of emotion. Who keeps mementos from a one night stand ? especially after they are married.

I am sorry you are hurting. Counseling does help, I can attest to that. Meds, despite the stigma, are sometimes needed to weather the rough spots and gain some clarity about what direction you want to take.

Listen to me clearly. You are in a bad spot. I understand I've been close to where you are now. You really need some help. This isn't going to get better on it's own. This isn't something your W seems ready to discuss with you. You need some support. Is there anyone close you can reach out to ?

I know you don't like the sound of IC, but if you really want the hurting to stop, you have to unload this somewhere.

ETA:


Suggests me there is probably more going on than you are aware of.

Bingo. That is why she wants to let it go and wants to avoid talking about it. I am sorry, but those of us who have been around for awhile have seen this play out all too often.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 1:14 PM, March 7th (Friday)]


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2559 | Registered: May 2010
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Gently here Stu. I get that you are freaking out and it's acceptable. We understand why. We hear your pain. Look at the last few posts right before your most recent. Has she really listened to you on your current pain? Does she show any remorse? Those graphic images aren't going to go away in the short term, but if she can show you true remorse, that will be a good first step in healing. I know at first it didn't sound like she was remorseful. What has she said since? Have you asked her to help you with your pain? Have you asked her for whatever your needs may be at this minute?


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Hi stu,

I don't want to minimize your pain at what happened, and your anger and disgust is natural and a normal phase...but I caution you to try and have some distance too and see if you can see this more objectively. Your wife has been with you for a long time, and it's extreme to reduce your perception of her to just some slut because she had this (admittedly hurtful) weekend before your engagement. Speaking as a woman solely, I feel from some of your statements that it's not only the betrayal but also the actual acts themselves that upset you--i.e., that if this happened when she wasn't with you, it would still upset you. And that part of your reaction I don't find totally fair. Obviously you're suffering and you feel what you feel, I don't want to downplay that. But personally I don't think it's the sex acts themselves that are wrong. The context, the cheating, is wrong...but your reaction seems to come from having a very binary view of women's sexuality. You don't want to think of your wife as engaging in certain acts, and knowing it totally changes things for you. I hope you can explore that reaction and come eventually to a place where you can accept that a woman doing x or y or z doesn't in and of itself mean she should be judged.

Obviously reacting to this information is a process, but wanted to do my small part in standing up for sex positivity (again, just in the general terms you think of women engaging in certain acts; not trying to mitigate your pain at the betrayal).


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Hosea
Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, March 7th (Friday)

stu23:

I really hope that your wife can get to a place where she fully comprehends the damage done by her past actions. It sounds like she can't yet. If you're still hearing dismissive things like 'it's ancient history', 'I'm not the same person anymore', 'let it go', etc., then she's got some work to do.

It IS "Ancient History." But it's your Marriage History, and the memories of it were sacred to you.

Now Chapter 1, The Proposal, has been horribly revised. The sordid details are pretty painful, but more than that, it's the shocking disrespect of you by her on your first day of marital engagement that is really far more troubling, right?

She's got to fully own that, not avoid it or diminish it. It IS serious, and her aversion to acknowledging that fact might even give you reasons to suspect other possible betrayals you've not discovered. (I really hope that's not the case, but she's not helping herself by discounting your pain...)

One last thing, between us Betrayeds.

All of us, whether we were cheated on the day of our engagement, or 30 years into a marriage, are forced to reckon with the horror of Marriage History revisions.

An affair ten years into a marriage bleeds backwards in time and stains every single page in our marriage history prior to it. The stain is worst where the betrayal took place, but it taints everything before it regardless.

First Date. Courtship. Proposal. Wedding. Honeymoon. They're all discolored, all damaged by an act of infidelity. For all of us.

I can no longer look back on my own proposal night, made on bent knee in a Thai restaurant with the best little diamond ring I could afford to offer, without feeling a little stab of pain. However sacred that memory was to me, however precious that moment was once, it wasn't enough to keep my wife from straying several years later. We're fully reconciled, and she's a different woman now. The stain has faded, but it's never coming out. We both have to live with that, and never let it happen again.

I really do hope for you that your wife will fully acknowledge, and truly repent, of that horrible early stain she left in the earliest chapter of your Marriage History. If she does, and has left no others since, then I do hope you can forgive it and limit the damage it does to the pages past. Because when you're old and looking back together, you deserve to have a Marriage History full of joyful memories, not painful ones.

We all do.


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 7th (Friday)

First and foremost she is the mother of your children and you should NEVER think that you have to tell a tale to your friends about how your wife was back then. It's none of their business and if it was before you, it was before you How would you two know that you'd even meet each other.
I told you that I'm in the same position you are. I was a virgin when I got with my husband and he wasn't. Point taken we have a age difference but I knew he had a past, I don't let that get into my present or my future.
I had to lay down the law that he can't be communicating with his past relationship if he can't do it in front of me. Sure I dated but I never slept with anyone! He gets mad to know that I even had an ex boyfriend but doesn't expect me to be upset with the women he's slept with.
Set some ground rules!
He was sleeping with other women while we were dating and I had no idea, I found this out AFTER we got married. I'm with you, had I known what he did then, I would have bailed too!
But it's in the past.....do you want to move forward or stay back there.
I cry almost everyday thinking about what he's done to me. But that's not going to change what he did.
Who cares if the other man has a degree, wife, and kids. You're a great man yourself and provide for his family (more than what other men do) be proud of who you are and what you've accomplished. Not many people have what you have and would like to live the life you're living.
I'm seeing a counselor on my own and that's been helping me because "I'm trying to save my marriage." If she doesn't want to go, you go on your own and listen to someone or write on here your feelings. There are many people willing to help you! But you got to start listening and look around you first.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Thanks for clarifying for me on the date situation.

Gently, I'd like to agree with Norabird on this aspect:

I hope you can explore that reaction and come eventually to a place where you can accept that a woman doing x or y or z doesn't in and of itself mean she should be judged.

Again, this is not to attack you or to minimize your experience in anyway. I say this because I think finding some outlets to explore this-- whether it's IC or even here at SI to begin with-- might help you contextualize and process some of your thoughts in new ways and give you a small measure of relief.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, March 8th (Saturday)


Last night my wife and I had a long drawn out discussion. I started it by telling her I needed to talk to her about things that were bothering me but only if the topics were ok with her. I also stated that there would be no arguing or incriminations as to who was right or wrong; just talking and listening. I told her how I felt about her sex weekend affair with the good looking Adonis. I asked why and she rolled her eyes and said we have been over this and youíre making me crazy with the same questions and comments over and over and over. I told her how I see this movie of the two of them having sex in my mind 24/7. I got graphic in my description. She said she didnít remember much and really didnít want to talk about it. She said my questioning really made her uncomfortable. She said she isnít comfortable talking about her past and my questioning her is extremely stressful, and she began to cry.
I asked again, ďHow this happened?Ē She said, ďI was out shopping and this guy came up to me and started talking and asked me for my phone number. She said she was surprised that a good looking guy would approach her.Ē She told him she had a boyfriend, but he continued to ask for her number; she was flattered by this attention. (My wife had no concept how gorgeous she really was; if she had had a better self-image she would have known. There was something about her that just shouted sexuality and beauty.) She said things like this just didnít happen to her. She believed that our relationship was ending or over and decided to give him her number. She said the arguing between her and I was getting to her and she had thought about breaking up with me. I said why you didnít just brake up with me. She said that I was going on my trip and she figured she would break up when I got back. She said that she didnít plan on a sexual experience with this guy, she was interested in a diversion from me and the physical contact just happened.
She said that he was treating her with respect and gentleness and she was relaxed with him and he made her feel special and unique. He made her feel emotionally secure and safe.
After dinner at her apartment they were talking and he was holding her hand as he asked questions about her and then he was kissing her and removing her cloths. She said she protested somewhat but she was feeling an emotional attachment with him and once he kissed her, the sex happened. She said the time with me had become stressful and the change felt good. She did add that she was a little nervous when she greeted him at the door and she felt a big difference in the size of our bodies when he was on top of her. She said it felt strange.
Later that night he spotted her diary on her desk as he went to the bathroom, he picked it up and read it. She said she later realized he had written in it. He also picked up her Polaroid from the desk and took some pictures. She said she protested, but he made a joke about it and she figured sheíd destroy them later. Through the night she went along with what ever happened physically between them, and he snapped pictures of the two of them in various positions together, doing whatever they did to each other. In the morning she woke up and saw him at her desk writing more in her diary. As the morning progressed the physical contact between them continued, and then my phone call. She wanted to stop the physical contact between them, but he asked her to hang up, and she could call me when they were finished. But before she did he released his body fluids into her just as I proposed. He heard the conversation and smiled and chuckled about what just occurred. He said, here I am ďFÖ.Ē you and he doesnít have any idea, what an ass. She said he became more sexually aroused and really seemed to be enjoying this new power. She said her only thought then was about me. She told me she was surprised with my phone call, and my proposal, she never saw it coming. She said the sound in my voice seemed desperate and she was afraid if she said anything negative, she didnít want to hurt me. She said she was very hesitant to call me later with a ďNoĒ answer because she wasnít sure about my reaction, so she said ďYes.Ē Then, when I returned home sheíd have a talk with me. He left and she put the pictures in the diary and the diary in her desk drawer; she figured she would deal with them later, for whatever reason she never did.
That was a difficult moment for the two of us; Iím upset and she was crying. There was more to this but it was to personnel and graphic and this isnít the place for it. I just donít have the energy to continue. Iím writing all this for me, seeing it in print helps. I still donít understand. What I came away with was my hot, gorgeous girlfriend/wife got played by this guy and he got what he wanted, maybe she did too. Also, she really didnít love me!

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, March 8th (Saturday)

One other important thing, she kept blaming me; my attitude, my hang ups, that I was the one who needed help.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Hi Stu,

I can relate in a way to your feelings of losing to the alpha male. My wives OM was a 'boyfriend' from the year prior to her meeting me. Lets say that he was really just a easy no inhibition fuck buddy over a 5 month period. Contrast to my M, my WW has major anxiety and other emotional issues, so lets just say that the sex has never been uninhibited, carefree, etc. with kids involved and strings attached. My WW just does not seem to be able to let go in a real life relationship of stress, bills to pay, you name it. I contrast that to my *perception* that OM got to have the better sex because of the care free environment. So I get the unfairness and feeling that OM got the better deal. With the A, and the escape to nice hotels, lets say that feeling mushroomed.

But it really is just a construct in your head. I know it be true (for me) on a rational level.

I like Phantom's advice. And I think the truth can sometimes hurt. But it does sound like your wife is being honest with you *about then*. She is right the you need to move through this. She does not need to be a jerk, though. She needs to be empathetic and understand.

for you Stu, I recommend that you:
1. Make sure you get all the truth, no matter how painful. Time to shed the illusions we cling to.
2. Give her credit for honesty.
3. Focus on where she is now ( and most recent years ) with the marriage. That is what you have.
4. YOU need to figure out why you proposed to her at a relationship low point, when she told you she was ambivalent and going on a date, and did so OVER the phone. Red flags there for you bro. You have to heal some unresolved stuff there and it ain't going to be easy.
5. If you WW has been faithful since the wedding, that is what you have: a faithful wife. Figure out if that is true, focus on that, deal with you ego.
6. Give your wife assurances and evidence of your self work in exchange for her compassion and understanding and patience.
7. Comparisons to other men ain't going to be fair, since the experience is driven by where their head is emotionally at the time, not just what the partner was like.

good luck stu. You can get through this.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

So I keep turning your situation over and over in my head. It is reasonable to accept that she agreed to the date with OM because *she* had decided the relationship was over (that is a common rationalization from WS'). It is also reasonable to accept that she blurted out a 'yes' to your impromptu proposal because she was caught off guard at the time.

But I keep getting *hung up* on the fact that she accepted your proposal of marriage while she was actively in the middle of having sex with OM. Also the diary writing stuff. What the OM wrote in her diary is extremely hateful towards you and extremely disrespectful towards her. The fact that your WW read what the OM wrote and didn't throw him out immediately is indicative of some serious issues on her part. If she has never had any type of therapy in the interim, I'll bet that those same issues are still inside her, lurking.

She said that she didnít plan on a sexual experience with this guy

While this may be *technically* true, it's still dishonest according to her MO at that time. She had a history/pattern of having sex on her first date....and especially since she says that she thought that you and her were over.....why would *this* date be any different?

I am a very firm believer that you cannot make good decisions without having the truth about all relevant issues.....so what I'm leading up to here is that you are going to have to directly ask her if she has cheated in any way, type, or form during the marriage. I was a *party* girl in college, but when I started seriously dating my stbx, I shut that behavior off like a faucet. Your WW didn't stop her behavior while dating you, but it's a possibility that her shut-off valve turned when she made her vows to you. Maybe once she was married, she completely threw herself into the role of wife/mother and left the *party* girl behind.......but you will be making a serious error if you continue to *assume* that is what she did because, from what you've said about her behavior, I'd feel pretty safe in betting that there is *more* -- I wouldn't go "all in" on my bet, but I'd be confident enough to bet *something*.

It's been my experience that when a WS is saying the things that your WS is saying to you -- get over it, it's in the past, it's *your* fault -- that there is information that has yet to be uncovered.

Hang in there, stu. You'll get through this.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Stu

I have read your story and I am sorry you are here. What you wife/girlfriend did at the time was clearly wrong to me. Something you wrote earlier also stood out to me.

I didnít know it at the time but he worked in the neighborhood we lived in. I would run into him occasionally and he would say high and ask me how my girlfriend was doing, and smile. He had met us walking to a store one day. I didnít know who he was at the time; I just thought he was a friendly person from the neighborhood. A few months later we were married and around that time he said he heard about the marriage and wished me well. He also made a few joking remarks about my wifeís ďcharmsĒ and implied she must be draining me to exhaustion with a certain action. They were a little graphic; I just assumed he was kidding around and dismissed it. But finding out years later about her time with him, I now understand how he knew her.

So your wife let this guy have his fun at your expense without standing up for you or letting you know what was going on. She kept these crap diary writings - she certainly does owe you a major appology and needs to stop playing the victim and telling you need to get past it. You will get past it when she takes accountability for her actions.

Another red flag is when you said she indicated your marriage would be over if you went to counseling. Are you sure there is not more to this story than you know? My WW cheated on me while we dated and I never knew. Sure she stopped cheating for a few months after we married only to begin cheating again. You wife has issues she needs to address and those issues didn't go away by you simply putting a ring on her finger. Watch out for those red flags.

It wasn't just that weekend that she was unfaithful - when you walked down the street and she let him make fun of you without you knowing what was going on she was unfaithful then too - that is not the behaviour of a faithful wife.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

This is related to more of the talk my wife and I had last night. She told me she felt she was never going to get asked to be married. Since I asked, she accepted. She had thought that maybe something might be there between her and the guy she screwed the weekend I proposed to her. But I guess she knew it was just a physical attraction. She told me she called him to tell him she said yes to her boyfriendís proposal. He told her that was great and he was going away with a girlfriend. As I mentioned in an earlier post this was his future wife who he married a short time later.
My wife said she had dated many men and had been intimate with them since she was 18. These relationships lasted one night, a few days, weeks, or months, and in one case over a year. She said the guys seemed really interested in her, but after sex they tended to move on. Sheíd get calls from her dates but they werenít interested in her, it was about hooking up, or theyíd tell her theyíd met someone else and were moving on, or marrying them. When I proposed all scenarios were running through her head. She thought that once she accepted my proposal our relationship would improve, she liked me and could see me as the father of her children.
How does one really know if your spouse is being faithful? May wife says Iím the only one sheís slept with since the weekend I proposed, I have to believe her.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Its sad she won't see that what she did was crass and disloyal; now she saying that the decision to marry was a flip of the coin. She was going to say no but decided to say yes so as to spare your feelings. Hell of a way to define your future.

So not only did she allow this guy to ejaculate into her as you said "will you marry me", but she really would have liked to tell you no thank you. I question whether your wife is emotionally committed to you; more like 'might as well go ahead and marry Stu; maybe no-one else will ask'. Thats what her words imply.

No remorse; she refuses to admit that her actions were wrong. Her lack of respect is what should really concern you. You are asking her to face up to her insulting behavior and apologize, and all she does is threaten you with divorce for suggesting counseling. She doesn't care enough about you to face up to her guilt; no matter how painful that might be.

Personally I would go ahead and arrange counseling and call her bluff. I think you both need this help, or this wound will fester until she bumps into another guy while shopping.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
FixYou71
Member
Member # 42654
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

A few of the responses you got were upsetting to me. I had to quit reading. The proper thing to do would have been for her to end your relationship before she slept with another man. For her to see that as a non-issue is very diminishing to your hurt. She wasn't protecting your heart. The idea that she accepted your proposal without disclosing this to you is also very concerning. You were robbed of the option of making your own decision about what was best for you after such a betrayal. It was unfair and wrong of her to finish your relationshio in her own mind and sleep with someine else without finishing it with you. Then to accept your proposal and go on as if nothing happened. ..not telling you...not good. Now you are dealing with a few huge sucker punches. The infidelity, the idea that the two of you were viewing the relationship so differently when you were so drawn to her, your first real love experience, and the betrayal that is felt after 10 yrs of burying the truth that should have been given you from the start. The betrayal felt from a lie(s) from someone you should be able to trust deeply is very difficult to navigate and causes immense oain and confusion. Unfortunately she is not seeing or understanding the full consequence of her choices or the full extent of the damage it has done to you.
You are in the right place. First thing I suggest is learn as much as you can about the aftermath of infidelity. It will help you feel less crazy and you will see that your pain and rollercoaster of emotions, all the side affects you are experiencing are normal. You need the validation. Check out Steven Stosny on youtube. Check out some Joseph's letter in the articles in the learning library here on SI. Check out dearpeggy.com. I will repost with a link to a very interesting study on infidelity that has helped me. Do a search on recovering after infidelity and you'll find things that will help you understand the reasins yiu hurt so much. Read others stories. Themore you do the less alone you will feel. once you have found some writings that you feel represent how you feel and what you need from here share them with her in a gentle non threatening way. This is very real for you and she will need to understand that and be a part of your healing process. I'm so sorry you have to be here. I agree that this is old for her and new for you so you are looking at it with different perspectives in that way at the very least. If she can see how and why this is so painful for you it can help open her eyes. Sometimes, unfortunately, they just don't see it and it may take an outside source (article, book, post) to help them get there.
Just know you are not alone. You will find support here.


BS: 43
H: 49
Dday #1 Oct 2007 (Porn for 2 yrs)
Dday #2 May 2013 (Porn for 5 more yrs))
Dday#3 May 2014 (finally admitted to drunk kissing OW in 1994: the 2nd drunken kiss with another woman during our M)
DD 21 and DS 17
Married 1993

Posts: 451 | Registered: Mar 2014
ming56
Member
Member # 19505
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

What I have not noticed commented on here is the fact that your wife seems to have been abused sexually. Certainly in the relations she had with her old boyfriend and his cohorts, and perhaps even prior to that. It does not sound like she has ever dealt with these issues and has low self-esteem and that colors her views on sex, intimacy, and relationships. My assumption is that she is badly in need of some quality therapy to deal with these issues and how they have impacted your marriage. The movies in your head will play out eventually, but even if you two are able to get through this very difficult time unless she deals with her issues there is always the possibility of another situation arising. It sounds to me like her she has tried to bury her issues and move on, but unfortunately those problems will never go away on their own. If she can get help in dealing with them then you also may gain some clarity regarding her behavior and thus a better grasp on and ability to deal with this hurtful incident that is threatening your marriage.

Posts: 305 | Registered: May 2008 | From: east coast
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

When I think about all of this itís not the lie, or the 10 years, itís that she gave herself to another person and when I asked her to marry me thatís the moment he left his seed in her. I canít stop thinking about this.
Norabird you made some comments that I have been having trouble understanding. If you or anyone else could explain it to me again I would be appreciative.
Also would someone explain to me how I celebrate the day I proposed to my wife, the answer escapes me?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Hosea
Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Stu:
Also would someone explain to me how I celebrate the day I proposed to my wife, the answer escapes me?

You can't. That sacred memory is stained-- and though that can fade over time-- it will not come out.

It's part of the high price you're forced to pay if you forgive and reconcile. That's why it so critical that your wife acknowledge the seriousness of her offense; you're the one stuck with paying the psychic bill for it.


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

MING56, I think this brief information about my wife might help give insight about her. She was 18 and (virgin) dating a guy from collage who she really liked and had a great time with and thought there was a future with. They would talk on the phone and spend a lot of time together constantly. She met his family, he met hers. They dated for over 7 or 8 months and he was a loving responsive partner with her, but was always pushing her for sex. She told him she was a virgin and wanted to remain one, he said he under stood and was ok with it. She said they did make out, but never had sex. When they made out it was in his car and he would ask her to relieve him by hand if they werenít having sex, she did. Around the 7 or 8 month they were at a Drive-In movie theatre making out in the back seat. She said they were into it hot and heavy when he asked about rubbing his penis around her thighs and the outside of her vagina, he had never done this before. After all the time they spent together dating she trusted him and agreed, he had never taken advantage of her before. She said she told him not to enter since she wanted to remain a virgin and he didnít have a condom on and she had felt there was no reason to be on the pill. He had always been satisfied with her taking care of his needs by hand. She said he started to rub and then suddenly pushed all the way in; she told me she screamed with pain and bled. That was the last time she saw or heard from him, he never called her again or took her calls. Fortunately she didnít get pregnant. She found out from a friend of his who had called her for a date that he had gotten engaged to his previous girlfriend I think 2 weeks later. She went out with the friend to discover he had been told she was an easy lay, thatís why he called her. She was severely tramaitized emotional because she trusted and liked her previous boyfriend. She decided since she was no longer a virgin and she had nothing to save for a husband, she had sex when the opportunity was there. It was during this time a boyfriend convinced her condoms werenít necessary. She said he told her sex was better without them and she went on the pill. She is an intelligent women and I asked her if she was worried about STDís. She said she never thought about it.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I agree with the posters who concentrate on the main issue; that she agreed to marry you and was plainly not in love with you at the time, [and certainly did not respect you either]. Surely having no loving feelings for you should have ensured that she would have turned down the proposal. This would have been the honest and decent thing to have done in the circumstances.

To have stated that she liked you and that may turn into love in the fullness of time is a rocky assumption. If she didn't respect you 10 years ago then that is unlikely to change. You were an antidote to being left on the shelf and that is wrong on every level. I get the feeling she would have married Adonis if he had shown enough interest.

Your wife doesn't seem to understand the insult she has paid you. She could have either not answered your call when you phoned to propose; after all she was deep in the throes of sexual union, or she could have made the OM stop, at least temporarily.
She just wants you to shut up and quit bothering with her with your hurt feelings; she isn't going to analyze what she did and admit any guilt. Thats too darn uncomfortable and she just doesn't care enough to do it.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

As I have read and re-read the posts looking for solutions it has been suggested over and over that I seek out IC. Someone please tell me what this might accomplish, how does this function, and what positive conclusions will be accomplished. If you have experienced this first hand, give me guidance. Above all will it stop the agony of the mental pictures of my wife in the hands of another man? Will it give me the ability to face my wife and the day of the anniversary of this infidelity?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

OK now: my wife has told me that she had thought the Adonis guys interest in her might have evolved into something more than a weekend of sex. Her admitting she called him after accepting my proposal indicated that there might have been something more than she stated. It is now 10 years later, what do I do? I want to be happy and have a loving relationship.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I agree with Gonna. My gut reaction is that your W has issues that she's afraid to examine and they are deeper than what happened when she lost her virginity. M guess is that's why she said MC is a deal breaker.

I'm serious. My gut is screaming here that she's got something she's buried and is viscerally afraid to face.

The way she allowed (allows?) men to treat her sounds almost like she has a Madonna/whore complex. Keeping the diary and picture might be her way of punishing herself or reliving it. I'm fairly certain she kept those on purpose and hid them under her parents' items in an unmarked box to keep you ignorant.

Additionally, her story has subtle but clear justifications in her story of how the date came about. She thought you were broken up...but expected to break up with you when you came back from the trip. The whole thing sounded like the typical ILYBINILWY speech. I just keep seeing WS justification in what you report she says. If it wasn't an issue in her mind, she would've told you before she allowed you to build a life on this lie.

As for the OM, I would bet a month's pay that he was cheating on his fiancť. He mentioned a GF and got M a month after. Unless it was whirlwind romance and elopement...
You should consider contacting her with the date and let her know her life was built on a lie too. A male...he's not a man, real men don't treat women like that...like him doesn't change his spots when he puts a ring on his finger.

ETA- re your last post. You need to decide what deal breakers in your M are. I would seriously consider IC for her with a counselor that specializes in sexual abuse for a minimum period of time. Also MC. Think about what you need to feel loved and secure. Then ask for that and accept nothing less.

[This message edited by Holly-Isis at 9:38 PM, March 8th (Saturday)]


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11225 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

stu,

in my (probably unhelpful)comments I did not emphasize how important getting to the FULL truth is. You need to get it all, from the beginning until now.

This is what in a way has to be verified:

If she didn't respect you 10 years ago then that is unlikely to change.

If something did not change then I think the full truth involves a lot more infidelity for a lot longer time - if not the whole time.

If she did remain faithful to you after the day after the engagement, then I think you have something to work with. And, the issues are different.

I agree with the post above, her wanting to answer the phone call from you in the middle of sex is really screwed up. She needs to soul search that one - along with everything else.

The FULL truth will set you free - because once you get to it, I think you will know what to do with your marriage.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Dear Stu...

Only because you asked, I keep suggesting you consider IC for the following reasons:

(1) I am increasingly convinced your wife had and has some major issues surrounding sex and intimacy that she may be unable to face right now, and her inability to communicate with you is going to leave you in a frustrating one-sided situation. You may need IC to help you process and, if it comes to it, as others have said, decide what your dealbreakers are.

(2) You have said a few things that concern me that you could use some help processing your view of your wife in light of these revelations. You have made several references to the mind movies that you've experienced where you are picturing her having sex with other men. You have also made continual references to "fluids" and "seed" and "mixing bodily fluids," while minimizing that she lied by omission for a decade. For example, this:

When I think about all of this itís not the lie, or the 10 years, itís that she gave herself to another person and when I asked her to marry me thatís the moment he left his seed in her. I canít stop thinking about this.

This is just me, but I've found your emphasis on these matters curious.

I've also been concerned with the conversation you mentioned where you asked (demanded?) she give you a BJ. I worry that the emotional state you are in has pushed you in certain directions that aren't the healthiest as it concerns your interactions with your wife. Talking to an IC might help you come up with more productive strategies.

(3) I can't speak for Norabird... but, as a feminist, language that focuses on the idea of a woman "giving herself" to another man or that views a woman's sexuality and sexual acts in a degrading fashion (regardless of context) are problematic. I don't want to say too much about this now, because I don't think it's essential for you to hear as you attempt to get your feet under you, but consider how the man she slept with that weekend is being called an "Alpha Male" to whom you "lost" whereas your wife is essentially getting slut shamed. Again, I think this is likely a topic for another time... but, nonetheless, I think the essential take-away is the same: there are a whole host of issues having to do with intimacy, communication, honesty that must be addressed here.

((hugs))

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 10:00 PM, March 8th (Saturday)]


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I don't see the preoccupation with having the OM's sperm still inside his fiancť when he had sex with her as an issue. I think it's perfectly understandable.

Maybe it's because MrH is the only man I've ever been with, so perhaps, like the OP I expect some sort of "distance" between sexual partners. I can't even think of the times during HB that I likely encountered "essence of xOw2". Even though MrH says he showered each time. I did not get into a relationship, save myself for one person in order to share their bodily fluids during my intimate, vulnerable moments.

Honestly, I feel like I was treated like a whore during that time. After all, both xOw2 and MrH knew their other partners. I did not. You don't bother to tell whores who else you're screwing, you just use them. I can imagine that as a male, Stu felt some variation of that. Cukholded, fooled in one of the most disgraceful ways he could imagine.

Semantics...not the time for going into debating a newly hurt BH on "slut shaming" vs "alpha males". He's actually made excuses for his W and indeed accepted her past sexual attitudes (sex on first dates, no condoms and so on) up until this point. At this point her "free sexuality" crashed right into what he believed was a monogamous M. Instead he finds out he was betrayed literally from the moment he was engaged. Nope, not the time to get into semantics.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11225 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I actually agree with everything you've said, Holly-Isis. I was just trying to answer some of the reasons that I have suggested IC (in light of his question). All of the thoughts you are having are totally valid, Stu. It just helps to be able to talk to someone who can help you work through them. That you are on SI testifies to that fact.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

PHANTOM LIMB: 24/7 Iím consumed by what happened. I play and replay in my mind her with him, and itís only him (Adonis). I donít care what went on before me; I didnít know her then. I believed that once you had a relationship it was only between those 2 people. The fact that she had sex with this guy is and was a slap at me and who I am and what I believe. The bodily fluids represent the greatest deceit. The seed, sperm represents the giving of life, or the greatest gift a man can give women he loves and shares a special bond with. Her acceptance of this gift (fluids) if you will in whatever form it may be is the lie. We all have secrets some great and some small to whatever degree they might be. I can forgive a lie and the time it takes to say it, with some exceptions. But the physical connection between two people is a trust, a union of commitment. She broke that commitment to me that trust bond. The exchange of bodily fluids didnít necessarily have to be internal; the fact is she helped him to release these fluids. She made a connection with him and her various body openings accepted his fluids (I have the pictures and the diary). I would be able to work through a kiss, a hug and be able to sleep through the night; it might take a few days. Then I return home and have sex with him, his fluids are in her; my sperm are mixing with his; my penis is sharing his gift to her. I have seen porn movies and have laughed at the actions of the performers; my wife was not a performer in a porn flick. She made a decision to go along with whatever he wanted to do with her and allow him take pictures. She told me it wasnít her idea, but the pictures remained for someone to view.
My comment about the BJ was meant as a rhetorical one stating where my mental health was headed. Yes it was cruel and I realized it and I think I said I removed myself from her. Regarding ďgiving herself,Ē it was my girlfriend who gave herself to Adonis. Adonisís girlfriend if she knew would say he gave himself to her. It doesnít matter what the sex is. If I had been involved with another woman, I gave myself to that women. If we were single and not committed to someone else who cares. Single adults make their own decisions about who they will or wonít connect with.
All my adult life I have been in competition with Alpha males, and some that I have known arenít people I grew to like. I played sports and met many there; I also lived in locations with them as well. My experience with them was that they used people and abused as well. When it came to women, it was who could score the most FÖ.s.Ē A couple of Alpha males I had to live with in a dorm kept a chart of who they had sex with and rated the performance of the women and what activities they got the girls to perform. And yes some even had pictures to prove what they said was true. I will admit that as an older teen ager in their environment I thought they were cool. As I got older I despised this behavior. I have been a regular guy who has had to work hard for everything, nothing came easy to me. I excelled in school, met and dated great women and respected the people I came inciontact with, even in the work place. I was successful. To find out that this Alpha male Adonis was involved with the women I loved has repulsed me and is causing great torment. I have been emotional writing this and I apologize for ranting. I hope I have been able to state my reasoning.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

PHANTOM LIMB: Remember besides the pictures, I met this guy and had conversations with him. Some of our talks lasted 1/2 hour or longer. I know this guy, he is real, not an imaginary character. This makes it real. I shook his hand; I may have even shared a Coke drink with him. I know his touch, what his hand looks like. That particular summer I even saw him shirtless wearing extremely tight short shorts. As I said he was a good looking man and did have the effect of making me uncomfortable. The budge in his pants couldn't be missed. Also I saw him and my girlfriend talking while we were on the street corner. I remember the why he looked at her and touched her shoulder. This just feed the images I see.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I'm amazed there's any debate that this was cheating. The story plays out as standard operating procedure for a WS.

She's unhappy in the relationship. She thought it was over but failed to end things before acting on that. She fucked another man and then lied about it for a decade. She has reconstructed the relationship history as a marital rewrite. She kept mementos of their affair and humiliated her own husband.

The list goes on. Her choice of plays from the WS handbook are stunningly common and banal.

To that end, Stu, this wasn't an ALPHA MALE that she slept with. If such a fallacious entity were to actually exist, said ALPHA MALE wouldn't hide like a chickenshit and talk shit from the shadows. That's the kind of nonsense the craven are about. Not things we as a society associate with leaders and impressive people.

I dunno if you've been directed to them but these are a couple of great posts for folks new to this shit:

Tactical primer -

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Before you say Reconcile -

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

Hang in there man. You will be okay.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7477 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 11:43 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I hear you, Stu. And I'm glad to see you work through all of this. It's okay to be emotional. And I understand the mind movies. I'm not even a year away from my DDay yet (almost, but not quite). My X would wait until I was asleep and then sneak over to OW house and do all sorts of things that I refused to do because I found them degrading. I tell you this just so you know that I relate. It took me many months to get past the stage you are in now. And one of the things that helped me the most was going into IC where I had a safe space to process everything.

We all have different ways of conceptualizing our betrayals and even the broader questions of what constitutes fidelity and how to understand our own sexuality. You've explained why the bodily contact has so much symbolic meaning to you. To someone else (me, in this case), I view the world in a slightly different way. Personally, I didn't see my X's sexual contact with OW as symbolic. To me, the systematic nature of the betrayal as a whole was much more meaningful to me. But that was just me. Again, not saying the way you view this is wrong. But I think when something is so vivid for you, it's a sign that it's something for you to explore. It has meaning.

I remember on DDay saying to X that I couldn't believe he let another woman see him naked. A minor point, I suppose, given what else they did together. But I explained to him that that was something that was just supposed to be between us. Something sacred we shared. What you have described is similar. Again, I understand.

Gently, I would still say that the difficulties you have had communicating with your wife and the struggle it is for you right now to just get through the day suggest to me that seeking some help from a therapist might not be a bad idea. My therapist helped me learn ways to calm down, to push the mind movies out of my mind, to cope, to adjust to my new reality. This has a way of rewiring your whole brain. I can also remember waking up in the middle of the night having panic attacks thinking that I was living a nightmare and I didn't know how to see myself through it. The things that helped me were to reach out, to keep talking, to keep processing, to accept help, to take care of myself. I hope you continue to find ways to do the same.

((hugs))

p.s. a bit of a t/j StillGoing-- I totally agree with you that she has many of the excuses from the WS playbook. I would only add that, from my understanding here, Stu also recognized that there was a disconnect in the relationship, hence his hurried proposal. So this is not exactly the kind of rewriting that a lot of WSs do where the BS was completely blindsided and thought all was well and good.

I only bring this up for clarity because if there is a communication issue in the M, it's important to recognize when both parties were expressing themselves, what they expressed, how they were heard and how they reacted.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 11:48 PM, March 8th (Saturday)]


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:05 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

Phantom Limb you said something that was familiar. I had the same strange thought; was she naked in front of him and if so how did it happen. When I thought it I knew I was loosing it.
But this all relates to them connecting. Part of my job is to pay attention to details as it relates to the environment. So naturally after years at my job I just remember details, it sometimes is a distraction. When I remember this guy shirtless and in his shorts, I remember everything. I can describe the beauty mark on his lower back. And of course what I couldn't see, I know what's there. But believe me that day there wasn't much left to the imagination considering he was wet. All the young women in the neighborhood were with him helping him was his sports car, and of course he was showering the girls with the water hose. I only went into detail because these mental pictures are very strong images.


Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 1:21 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

stu,

I know you're having trouble and it's understandable. but I have to tell you a few things. It's just my opinion, but you're acting like a beta male now.

The fact that your wife betrayed you the way she did reflects on her, not on you. Who cares about Adonis? You married her because you wanted to. You got the girl you wanted. it doesn't matter what Adonis wanted or didn't want. Once you got back, he was out the door. You claimed your bride. Being an alpha male is all in your head.

If in fact she never cheated on you since you've been married, then you're in pretty good shape imo. You could argue that she finally realized what a good catch you were and cherished you.

You have a right to be pissed about the diary and the disrespectful things that were in it. If I were you I would talk to my wife about it. And if I felt we needed to go to MC, she'd better damn well go. She fucked up. She now does what I think we need to do to reconcile.

See what I mean? Given this shit sandwich, you decide what you want to do. If you can't forgive her, divorce her. If you need to go to MC or else, then make it clear that's what needs to be done. Do what YOU want.

If you need to confront the asshole for his disrespectful comments in her diary, then do it. Act like a man. Cowboy up!


All this talk about fluids and her being banged by an alpha male is nonsense. The only issue is she betrayed your trust in your mind. It doesn't matter if she doesn't agree. It's what you think.

Even if she doesn't agree, if she sees that you're hurting she needs to be concerned if she loves you.

those are my thoughts. a shit sandwich never tastes good, but it's what you do about it that matters.

good luck


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:58 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

You may have a point, I may be a Bata male at this point, and the Dominant male won, he and my wife were able to enjoy each other, and the Bata male came in second. This info has been a shocker to me. I have been confronting all of this directly and have discussed this with my wife. As I said in an earlier post she said we have discussed this to death. She has said Iím battering her with all my questions, it happened and it canít be undone. She said she has nothing to apologies for, she had told me she had an upcoming date and thought our relationship was over or ending.
Regarding Alpha male, have you ever been at a gathering of people and someone enters the room and everyone greets that person with enthusiasm, yet others get ignored. Or you try and have a conversation with a group of people and canít get into that conversation, no one is letting you speak. Yet someone else has no problem stating their idea, everyone is listening. Some people command and direct and the group follows, they are the leaders (Alpha person). This Alpha male takes control and knows how to manipulate people to their advantage. They get what they want at the expense of others. Thatís all I inferred.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 2:29 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

†Some people command and direct and the group follows, they are the leaders (Alpha person). This Alpha male takes control and knows how to manipulate people to their advantage. They get what they want at the expense of others. Thatís all I inferred.

That description fits narcissists also. True leaders lead by example and inspire others to follow and take part.

The way I see it, you're the real alpha male. You're the one who put it on the line and asked her to marry you. She could have said no. Imagine how you would have felt back then if you heard that answer. Meanwhile, this Adonis a-hole does things "in secret" with women because he knows other real males would beat the shit out of him for being a dick swinging douche bag. I've worked with one before in my college days. He would demean the women he dated by telling me and other coworkers of his sexual exploits. To him, they were all trophies. He thought he was an alpha male, up until one of his "conquest's" boyfriend came to our workplace to come looking for him. Mr. Adonis snuck out the back and never came back to work. Some "Alpha" male he was...

Now, what you have to figure out is if your wife deserves you and this marriage. You have to figure out if the reason you asked her hand in marriage was the right reason. She needs to tell you she really wants you and loves you. She needs to prove it.

But then, I would wonder why she would think seeing an MC would be the end of the marriage. She should be eager to see an MC to show you she wants to be in the marriage and help you get past what she did.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 553 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Aceofbase
Member
Member # 42458
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

Think of this as investing... investing in your life. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance, especially 10 years ago probably belong in the past. What has your investment done in the last ten years? Do the events of ten years ago show you a pattern that is currently going on?
If not then move forward and do not let information about the past stay in the past. Keep your head in the present moment and you can make relational investment decisions.


DD: 12/18/2013
Status: R

Happiness is a choice.


Posts: 141 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: USA
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

After reading all the posted statements again Iím no better off today then I was a few days ago. Some of the comments have started me thinking about who I am as a man and just what my expectations might have been about regarding life and accomplishments. I was a virgin in my early twenties when I met my wife. I didnít think I was missing something then, but now I am. Why did I hook up with the women I did (my wife)? She was a sexually experienced sensuously gorgeous woman. I saw the way other men looked at her. Could that have excited me, maybe even turned me on, the way they seemed to lust after her. When she was in her bathing suit at the swimming pool guys always swarmed around her and flirted with her. Why did I have negative feelings towards the Alpha male types? Was I envious at their accomplishments and conquests? Did I secretly fantasize that I wished I was them? In high school the jocks on the team I was on seemed to have everything they wanted; they were having sex with their girlfriends. I know they were, they were my friends at the time, it wasnítí t just talk. They had good grades and seemed to own the world and they were admired.
In collage it was the same. The Alpha males seemed to get whatever they wanted. They were scoring at whatever they did; from adulation by others to having their needs taken care of by their groupies. I was accomplished at the sport I played and other things I did as well and had people wanting to hang with me. But I never used or abused them like the guys I knew did. In the dorm, looking back, I think I might have wished I had been the Alpha males who were scoring with the women and graphing their conquests. NONE OF THIS OCCURRED TO ME BEFORE. I WAS HAPPY AND CONTENT WITH MY LIFE UP TO THE DAY I FOUND OUT WHAT MY WIFE AND HER ADONIS DID TOGETHER. Am I at the right sight for what is nagging at me? Could I be jealous of what my wife did, maybe I wanted to fool around with another woman?
Are my thoughts normal, am I just trying to cope with my anger and frustration? PHANTOM LIMB you and some other posters seem to have an insight that is helpful, please respond.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

Stu,

I am going to reiterate the importance of communication with your wife. I definitely see counseling on the near horizon for BOTH of you, if you want to move past this.

You have a right to be pissed about the diary and the disrespectful things that were in it. If I were you I would talk to my wife about it. And if I felt we needed to go to MC, she'd better damn well go. She fucked up. She now does what I think we need to do to reconcile.

See what I mean? Given this shit sandwich, you decide what you want to do. If you can't forgive her, divorce her. If you need to go to MC or else, then make it clear that's what needs to be done. Do what YOU want.

Exactly what mike7 said. And while I definitely have issues with your wife's apparent disconnect to your emotional state, it appears that she is communicating...probably to the best of her limited capability. That is why she needs to work on this aspect of her psychological makeup. Like I said---there is some sort of disconnect.

You need to dig deeper as to why you felt the need to propose the way that you did...especially when you knew that she had a date with another man. You don't propose to someone that is openly going to date another person.

I am not saying this to beat on you, friend. I just think that you really need to explore this part of your thinking. It seems that insecurities have been part of your mindset for quite a while. Especially the way that you are dealing with Mr. Adonis. He is just a guy. And apparently, a fucking coward...a weasel...who preyed on someone who knew was in a relationship.

So, because he can bench-press more than you, he is a man? By what I have read, I look at the guy as a chump....a loser....because that is what his actions show.

None of this changes how you need to handle your wife. She needs help. She doesn't have the ability to emotionally connect to you the same way that you do to her. She has been this way since you met her, and married her anyway. You are just dealing with these difficulties now, because of your revelations. You can either accept this in your life, and "get over it", like she has suggested---or you have the option to NOT ACCEPT IT, and hold her accountable.

The ball really is in your court. You decide what is best for you moving forward. Your wife can either try to make this marriage better, or can stay with her beliefs that she did nothing wrong---and let this marriage deteriorate even further. You don't control her, but you control yourself.

What are you going to do?


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

Think of it this way:

If your W had men who swarmed around her, flirting and vying for her attention, why did she pick you?

If she's been so "free" sexually and been with other men who were more experienced, why did she pick you?

If "Adonis" was so skilled, so endowed, soooo irresistible, why did she say yes, even answer the phone while she was having sex with him? Yes, there are some emotional issues within her to do that but also something telling about your pull to her heart.

Why did she hide it for all those years if it was about "Adonis" and Aplha males?

Because a woman generally doesn't really want an Alpha male. They used her. They didn't see her as a woman, as a person. My guess is she got into a relationship with you expecting to see the same. But you were different. You sought her heart and she wasn't expecting that.

Stu- in this situation you're the Alpha male. That creep was rejected as he was in her. Rejected.

You're W has some major issues she needs to deal with, but my guess is deep down she didn't like being used. Because that's what you are describing all those guys doing. Using the women around them.

This theory of mine might even speak to why she hasn't done some of the sexual things with you she has with others. She didn't feel the need to allow you the use of her body beyond her comfort zone because she knew you would still love and accept her.

BTW- you need to find another nickname that more accurately describes him...rather than glorifies what you have made him out to be. Might I suggest Neanderthal? Cretin? WD- walking dildo?


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11225 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

Good advice above. I know for one that the word Adonis is now seared into my head forever.

It was suggested that you really did deep on why you proposed when and how you did, and under what mindset. Her telling you she was going to date was basically ending exclusivity. Why was a marriage proposal the response?

I can totally relate to your feelings vis a vis other young men trying to score. It's like Rudolph not doing well in those reindeer games to much self-created humiliation. You seem to have some old deep wounds related to your sexuality and self-esteem. This Adonis thing has re-opened these wounds not fully healed. In some ways this whole thing is about you now. And what you do to move forward.

Like others said, an Alpha male does not sneak out the back door, or cheat on his fiancťe. You are only viewing him as his body, not soul or mind. The actions and circumstances do not speak well for his latter two characteristics.

Is it that you looked at having your hot sexy wife as a prize? Meaning that you 'won'? That she as a prize was supposed to heal your past wounds related to sexuality? The narrative about fluids struck me as a rationalization that gave meaning to how you dealt with your insecurities in the past.

And, dude, I can relate. I married my wife in a lot of ways because she was a prize for me being a 'nice guy'. I did not really fully love her, I loved how getting her validated me at the time. And how being a 'rescuer' also made me feel good. Let's just say that I do not look at my prize the same way. Not to mention looking at my wife as a prize is/was messed up.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:43 AM, March 9th (Sunday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

Hi, Stu...

I'm replying again because you asked me to. I hope that I'm not pushing you too much. I'm just going to tell you what I think again and hope it's helpful.

What I'm reading here makes me think that you have insecurity issues that stem back a long way. Probably as early as high school. That insecurity seems to come from observing a certain social expectation for you to be what you've called an "Alpha male" which, from your description, appears to be a man who is aggressive sexually, hooks up with many women, commiserates with other men about their conquests and generally, frankly, treats women as sexual objects and with a great deal of disrespect. You seem to have been wired differently. You took your time sleeping with someone you cared about. You didn't actively participate in the antics you saw these other men engage. You played by rules that you were comfortable with and showed you had a great deal more maturity and character. However, again, that you weren't sleeping around or engaging in jock culture seems to have made you feel like an outsider.

Your continued descriptions of the OM... his body, his behaviors, his "alpha" status, your encounters with him, his "fluids," etc is you participating in an act of comparison with/against yourself. You don't know how to measure yourself up to this man. Potentially all of your life you've felt inferior (the beta male) to these kinds of men (the alpha male) and now you have to contend with the presence of one of these guys acutely in your life and your M.

This is just a preliminary guess-- but it sounds like you viewed your wife as the kind of woman one of these jocks would have considered a conquest. But you had her. Until you found out that she had, in fact, slept with a man who symbolizes all of those things you once found detestable. And so this has made you question everything.

In terms of advice... I agree that you need to start thinking about what you want and need here and try not to mentally subordinate yourself to this man in your mind. He's long gone, Stu. Certainly you're going to need to replay your encounters and the mind movies of him with your wife will take a long time to set aside (I speak from experience). But don't let insecurities from the past cause you to stagnate now and spin your wheels. Time for you to find a way to feel safe and move towards a healthier view of you, your wife, your marriage. To learn to process these thoughts. To figure out how, or even if, you can communicate with your wife.

I'll get personal for a second on the subject of your wife. While everyone is different, I can sense that I may have some similarities with her worldview and, at this stage, contemplating what she could have been thinking is something you are going to do anyway... so maybe this will help you process. But remember that whatever I say here, I'm not a substitute for your wife.

Before I met and M my X, I was a pretty attractive girl and I tended to date the kind of alpha males you are describing. Body builder/professional athlete types. My X was nothing like that. He worked out a lot, but he was never going to have a six pack. And he was handsome... but sort of in a professional/professorial way. He was more of the brainy type and he wasn't going to win any Adonis contests. When I met him, I wasn't attracted to him in the way I had been with other men. With other men, I was turned on by how, to use your term again, "alpha" they often were. That's not to say I allowed myself to be degraded by them... but if they took charge a little or wanted to try something different sexually, I was into it because the level of engagement with them was different than it was when I was in a relationship with someone who was my boyfriend. With someone I was trying to build a life with and wanted to establish full equality and respect. With some of these other guys, I might go on a date with them because I found them attractive, sleep with them, keep in touch with them for a few weeks or months... but then move on. Because I never wanted to end up with one of these guys as a partner. For my husband I wanted someone like the man I thought I married. Serious, compassionate, intelligent, thoughtful, etc. (It turns out my X was more of a broken person than I realized! But that's another story!)

In any case, I remember when my X was pressuring me to date him exclusively and head towards M. I was very young and, although I loved him, I was unsure about marrying him. I wasn't sure if I should keep dating. If he and I were better as friends instead of lovers. But then I thought, I could do a lot worse than marrying my best friend. Someone who had shown me that he wasn't one of these disgusting alpha males. Someone I could trust. Who would be an equal partner. Who would be a good father. So I did it.

I'd say it took me a few years, but I eventually came to deeply, deeply love my X and I never regretted my decision to stop being the cute girl who hooks up with men who are full of themselves. I wanted the kind of intimacy I had with my X where my sexuality wasn't viewed as something to be obtained. It was something to share.

When women are growing up in the kind of culture we are in, we are given a lot of conflicting messages. We are told we have to look a certain way. Be available to men in a certain way. Much like you feeling pressured by the jocks in high school, we feel pressure to accept the attentions of these kinds of men to feel like we have value. It can be very, very, very difficult for a woman to negotiate these waters. So when your wife was feeling like your dating relationship was stalling and got attention from an "Adonis"-- I can understand why she might have felt pressure to go on a date and, when he came on to her, to go along.

But when you called and asked her to marry you... she made a choice. She chose not to be that girl anymore. To choose a man who wouldn't take her for granted. Who wasn't just after her as a conquest. You valued her more. And, if this story remains the same, it sounds like she left that other girl behind in that diary and, for 10 years, has been a wife to you. She may not even relate to who that younger, impressionable girl was. It's even possible she may view herself as victimized by that man and she doesn't know how to process it. I can imagine all kinds of reasons why she's reluctant to open that part of herself back up and look at it.

That doesn't mean she shouldn't for your sake. But somehow you two need to figure out how to communicate about this. This is both triggering so many issues for both of you that have less to do with her one night stand a decade ago and so much more to do with how the two of you relate to one another and understand your roles in your M. And you both clearly need to do some work separately to deal with your individual problems and figure out how you want to proceed in the M. There is something that people on SI say a lot: your old marriage is dead. And it is. You can't go back to the blissful ignorance of the past. The good news is, it sounds like all of the piece of this new reality are on the table-- down to her diary. The "bad" news (which can be good news) is that you now have a lot of work to do to contend with it.

Okay, this is a novel, so I'm going to wrap it up. I hope this helps a little...

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 11:27 AM, March 9th (Sunday)]


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

Holly-Isis and MC Jack I hear what you are telling me. But I feel like that wimpy person who gets his ass kicked or stepped on most of the time, now. I have always been the person that friends, relatives, colleagues have come to for solutions. I'm always given the most difficult assignments at work. I get things done and done well. But this is something I can't resolve. Remember I got my wife by default; she didn't love me but settled for me. She had told me on the phone weíd talk about it later. That was a rejection of my proposal. I knew she had a date and I didnít want to lose her, I knew it was ending our exclusivity. So I did the only option I could think of at that moment, to ask her to marry me. I didnít know she was in bed with the dude. She was to see him later that night; I called her in the morning. My morning call was a desperate act of trying to salvage the relationship I didnít want to loose and prevent her from seeing that guy and from probably having sex with him.
I have had self-esteem issues and have been dealing with them since I was a teen. I mentioned in a post that I have always had to work hard to achieve positive results. Like the character ďRocky BalboaĒ I push the envelope and do excel at what I do in life most of the time. I think the use of Alpha male has been a euphemism for the guys I have always had to compete against. Whether in sports, work, or life in general there have always been guys who have tried put me down or take advantage of me. If they could it would make them feel good. But IĎve never backed down or run from a confrontation of their making. I stand up for myself as well as others who might feel threatened.
Why my wife and I ever got together is a mystery to me. We are different people philosophical, politically and religiously.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

Phantom Limb, thank you for your time and insights. As I read your message I got emotional it hit a nerve with me. I find after reading your messages I feel calmer and seem to have more rational thoughts. The frustration and anger is still with me but your insights do help. Please keep giving me your thouhts. Whenever you think of something that might help, please post it.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

I feel like that wimpy person who gets his ass kicked or stepped on most of the time, now.

I think that your current insecurity issue is transient due to the situation. From what you've posted about *who* you are, it doesn't seem to be a long-time issue. Sure you've *noticed* the Alpha males throughout life, but you seem to have been pretty *comfortable* with who YOU were.

I am not a male, but from being on this site from a while and reading lots of JFO posts written by men, it seems pretty common for a man's *man-ness* to take a hit upon a finding of infidelity. Try to focus on yourself and what you offer -- people *trust* you, as evidenced by being the go-to person for difficult assignments or issues, etc.

One step in the proper direction may be for you to begin re-framing the whole 'Adonis' thing -- right now, your self-esteem is taking a hit every single time that word enters your mind. He is a 'taker.' He is a 'user' of people.....and there is NOTHING glorious about a person who treats others that way. The guy is a douchebag, plain and simple. He may have a wonderful-looking outside, but his insides are pure black and disgusting.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

It makes me happy to hear that I might be helping you. SI helped me through the darkest time of my life and, if I can give back a little bit, I want to do that.

This stuck out to me:

I stand up for myself as well as others who might feel threatened.

Right now you are the one who feels threatened and you are the one who needs someone to stand up for you. Try to be that person for yourself as much as you can. In my lowest moments, I had to go on what I called my "autopilot." I knew what I had to do for myself objectively to get through the nightmare, and I just pushed myself to do it-- whether it was NCing my X, moving out, getting into IC, reaching out and accepting help from family and friends, filing for D...

What do you feel like you need for yourself right now?


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

Stu, to reply to your question about whether the triggers/flashbacks/obsessions get better/go away -- they actually do (or can). They naturally fade and get better over time. And you can encourage even further healing, if you need it, by doing a special type of therapy that's targeted towards trauma. There is more than one type. Therapy for trauma is different than standard therapy. If you don't like standard therapy, you may still like the trauma stuff, especially if it gives you results.

However, none of this makes you immune to NEW hurts. I would strongly suggest you follow the standard advice here--to guard yourself if nothing else. Also, standard therapy can help with this. I know you love your wife, but you can love her and protect yourself at the same time. Based on what I've read, I would suggest doing the 180 to help heal and clear your head. If your wife takes the initiative to ACT more respectful towards you, you can re-evaluate things.


Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 842 | Registered: Nov 2012
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

I think this thread is getting caught up in debating the "alpha/beta" stuff. I've come across that ideology before and read a bunch of it. It's all nonsense, of course, but I don't think stu realizes how poisonous it is--it encourages men to deal with anger/bitterness by REINFORCING it with a completely BS theory based on pop evolutionary psychology, and of course it hurts women. Telling him that it's offensive neatly fits into its rhetoric, which in part says "this stuff is offensive and horrifying but it's the truth! you have to swallow the red pill and see reality for what it is!" Attempting to appeal to him in terms of the theory also makes it stronger (e.g. saying that he's acting like a beta male).

Again, stu, whether you believe in that "alpha/beta" stuff or not, there are PRACTICAL steps you can and should take to make things better for yourself; then and only then can you make things better for other people, because you're doing the emotional equivalent of bleeding out right now.

ETA: Also, I understand why you're buying into this stuff; you're horrified and angry. I'm not going to judge you for looking for a new way to interpret the world. Just please be open to things you haven't considered, and to the idea that changes will take place that will surprise you, if you do the right things for yourself.

[This message edited by ProbableIceCream at 2:29 PM, March 9th (Sunday)]


Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 842 | Registered: Nov 2012
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

To back up IceCream, this kind of talk:

But I never used or abused them like the guys I knew did. In the dorm, looking back, I think I might have wished I had been the Alpha males who were scoring with the women and graphing their conquests. NONE OF THIS OCCURRED TO ME BEFORE. I WAS HAPPY AND CONTENT WITH MY LIFE UP TO THE DAY I FOUND OUT WHAT MY WIFE AND HER ADONIS DID TOGETHER. Am I at the right sight for what is nagging at me? Could I be jealous of what my wife did, maybe I wanted to fool around with another woman?

Is definitely the kind of thing that isn't healthy and, again, signals a need for IC.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

Being told by my wife that she screwed another guy is a catastrophic event for me and I am trying to deal with it as well as I can. I had a happy marriage up until a short time ago. Iím not a physiologist; Iíve never been through therapy and basically have been grasping at straws to try to deal with this situation. I have been writing from emotion and stress. Do I understand the deep ideology of half the stuff Iíve written, NO. Everything I have written is from a generic understanding, and I would hesitate to even describe it in that sense. All I want is my life back with the women I trusted. I should have just lived in blissful ignorance. But since Iím here, just give me coping skills and a way to stay healthy and sane. And if it is possible, forgive or except what happened; this history canít be revised. This stress is beginning to have an effect on me and I have made an appointment to see my doctor.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

All I want is my life back with the women I trusted.

You will not get this back. Not in the same way. You have to accept that in order to have a life with her now, you have to rebuild under new conditions, transparency and communication.


I should have just lived in blissful ignorance.

You will likely always look back at the period where you were blissfully unaware as sort of idealized, innocent and happy... but now you have a chance at a more authentic life and a more fulfilling one with your wife.

But since Iím here, just give me coping skills and a way to stay healthy and sane.

Seeing your doctor is an excellent first step. Get into therapy to deal with this trauma. Put the 180 into effect to give yourself space to heal. Take care of your body (force yourself to eat protein shakes if you have to). Know that you will probably lose weight and experience other physical problems (I, for one, lost 40lbs and am still dealing with health issues). Do not use drugs or alcohol to self-medicate. Do not have a revenge affair and complicate matters. Begin to figure out what your dealbreakers are and what you can do to find peace. Be an active participant in your recovery. Make a list of things you want to do for yourself to baby yourself, make you feel good about yourself. Make a list of things that you want out of a relationship with another person-- whether it is with your wife or in the future. In time, perhaps take a course on sexuality and culture, gender issues or the like to help you understand where some of your triggers are coming from.

That's a start...


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

My counselor had me do these 3 things when I replay my husband (boyfriend) betrayal.
1. Acknowledge that it's in your head and say ok you're back.
2. Tell your brain "thank you" I'm safe. (That your brain makes you go back to show you that you're in a safe place).
3. Then tell your brain that you have other important things to do and move on and do something/think of other things. I do this like 4 times a day.

Other times I tell GOD I leave this to you, help me through it.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, March 10th (Monday)

yme32313 thank you for the info, I have been using it. It's not working as well as I had wished. Also there is another issue adding to my frustration. There was a water leak in my basement and I had to move my in-laws boxes. I called my best friend to come over and help me move them to safety. As we were moving them a few of the cardboard boxes fell apart. All over the basement floor were more pictures that belonged to my wife. They were pictures of her and previous boyfriends. Many of the pictures were of her and her boyfriends naked, some with cloths. A few of them were like "Girls Gone Crazy," and others were with her sexually involved with her guy or guys. My friend was picking them up and looking at me. I thought he looked uncomfortable. He started to open another box that I had moved earlier out of the water to put the picture and stuff in. I tried to stop him, that was the box with the Adonis pics and diary. He saw those pics also. He looked at me and said he had something to tell me. He knew about all the pictures and diaries. I didn't know this but he had known my wife before I did. He said there might be pictures of him in some of those boxes. He thought my wife had gotten rid of all that stuff after I married her. He told me he dated her for almost a year. The two had decided not to tell me because he didn't want it to come between us as friends; I have known him for almost 25 years. I was his best man, he was mine. I was about to say something when he said their relationship ended a long time ago. I believe him, he had been living in Colorado with his wife for a number of years. We talked and he told me things about my wife I couldn't believe. After he left I went through the boxes and pictures and became physically sick. I did find graphic picture of him and her together.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, March 10th (Monday)

I just spoke to my friend and I asked him more questions about my wife. He told me that in freshmen year at college my wife dated a guy who was an art major in her art photo class and they used each other as their models. He took art type pictures of her, she of him. After they broke up she kept the pics and she would then take pics of the guys she dated, it became a thing she did. I never knew any of this. Who is the women I married?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, March 10th (Monday)

Well this knowledge kinda blows up a portion of her story that she told you, right? The one where she told you that the taking of the pictures had been OM's idea and that she just *went along* with it.

I'm really sorry. It is a SERIOUS kick in the gut to realize that the person who you thought you knew so well is really a stranger.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, March 10th (Monday)

There are many aspects of this new revelation that I find confusing. It's just such a bizarre coincidence. But, if this is the situation, Stu, you have a lot of manning up to do.

First of all, you have to do the 180. You have to start contemplating what a S or D would look like and preparing yourself for that. She's already said no to MC and has minimized everything. This means that you already know where she's at and it doesn't look good. Start figuring out whether you want her to leave, start looking around for a L, take a look at your finances.

Next, I really, really, really think you need to find an IC. Not only have you felt betrayed by your wife, but now you are finding out you didn't know your friends, either. I mean, frankly, this is all kinds of fucked up. If it is the case that she was sleeping with friends of yours... and no one told you about any of this for 10+ years? There is something seriously wrong with the people that you have in your life. You are going to need major help sorting through this and you can not rely on your wife, your friends or any of these people to help you do that because, evidently, they were happy to keep you in the dark.

Others may come along with some more solid advice. As I've said, I'm still somewhat of a novice here.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 12:38 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Your confused, my gut and head are in a tail spin.
As I have said, for ten years my wife has been an outstanding mother to our children. As a wife I have no regrets, the 10 years with her were good. Did I have issues with her, yes, just like any other marriage. Her never saying I Love You was something I wondered about. But she has always been there for us, she works also. Granted I only see her in the evenings and for a few hours on the weekends because I'm working 2 jobs right now. Romance is not as often as I would like, maybe a few times a month and when we do its great. But my married guy friends have said the same thing. As I said before, if I didn't know any of this....? My friend and I have talked some more in the last few minutes. He told me more about the relationship with my wife and he never told his wife either. He figured jealousy wasn't something either I our his wife should have to live with. Since the relationship had ended and if we all were to be friends we didn't need that getting in the way, he said his wife does get jealous.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I'm so sorry Stu. This keeps getting worse by the second. I agree strongly with Phantom Limb above. You need to do a hard 180. Take a look and see what an S or D looks like to you. I know it's easy for us to sit here and say those things Stu but take a step back and look at everything. It's completely mind blowing at this point and you are in the middle of a trauma. You need to separate to make yourself stronger.

She was/is clearly lying to you and minimizing all of this. It's not that she hung onto just "Adonis", she hung onto all of it. You don't just hang onto that stuff. I'm sorry you just don't. What else is she hiding? What else has she done? Just this past Friday night I was discussing my mother's diary with my counselor. There were horribly graphic things that I read in there. My mother went into great sexual detail about what she did with her AP and also how she wanted to have sex with my brother and I. Sick shit. Why did my mother document everything? Saying she was sick is an understatement. She wanted her diary to be found. She wanted someone to read it. My C said that you don't write things that are that salacious or have that level of documentation if you don't want someone to read it.

I do not want to project here. But why did your wife hold onto all this shit? Why was in not thrown away a long time ago? You do have kids right? I would be absolutely out of my mind furious that this was in the house in a place where the kids could get access to it. I'm emotionally sick reading this thread and feeling your pain. The fact that she can't see any of this is a HUGE F'N problem. She's sick in her own way. Now that you can see she's lying to cover this stuff up, what else is she lying about?

I'm sorry Stu, I don't mean to sound so dramatic but this is traumatic stuff. It's not that this happened 10 years ago. This is way past that. It's still happening or it wouldn't be around for anyone to find. I'm not implying that she's having affairs but I honestly wouldn't put it past her. Whatever this is it's still going on or there wouldn't be so much documentation lying around for someone to find.

Deep breath Stu. You can't worry about her until she starts to worry about herself. What are your feelings about now just concentrating on you? What are your feelings on 180 and IC now?

ETA - garmmar corrections above

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 12:44 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Oh my dear friend Stu,
This is so heartbreaking and I can see where you are coming from. My husband had boxes of his phone records and seeing how he would call the other woman after he got off the phone with me, made my heart just drop to the floor. I can only imagine how you feel to see actual pictures.
Question? Are they before you or during?
I know about the one guys she was with when you asked her to marry you, but are any of these guys during your relationship?
She should have thrown everything away, just the same way my husband should have when I moved in but could there be a possibility that they forgot about it?
Burn her diary and photos, if you see them as a threat BURN THEM!!
I'm going to counseling by myself, I need to work on what husband (boyfriend) did to me at the time we were dating. I'm just like you trying to move on day by day.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Also your friend should have told you this a long time ago, What kind of friend is he. She should have as well, so you could have decided if you'd be ok with their past relationship.
I found out my husband with this lady of course after we got married had he told me he was with her before, I wouldn't have even dated him.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Gently here Stu, one more question that I asked before. I went back and reread your very first post. You said that you were the one that pushed for the details of that weekend. She's been lying about it for 10 years. Why tell you the truth now Stu? What is she getting at? Is she pissed at you for something? If she wanted all of this to be hidden, she wouldn't have told you "some" of the truth of that weekend. She would have kept it a secret and had gotten rid of all of that evidence. The fact that this is coming out now and that her past is now following her I don't think is a coincidence. Why tell you all of this now? Why have you find all of this now? Something going on with her Stu.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I'm only thinking out loud here, trying to work through this mess. I said this before, I was a virgin when I met my wife. I thought I learned all about her past. Could it be that knowing what I did about her might have been a turn on. I did have self esteem issues that other guys were better than me and worked hard to prove to my self that I was as good as them. Could being with my wife have been part of it? I said that my gut had told me something was different when I returned home and we had sex, I chose to disregard it. Could I have been getting off through my wife's past? This sounds sick.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Just a thought: I have photos (physical and on hard drives) of other men I dated before my X that I wouldn't have wanted him to see. I have artwork that one of them made of me and for me. I have other momentos in a box somewhere (a varsity jersey and that sort of thing).

With the photos, the only reason I didn't deal with them is that... I didn't want to deal with them. I didn't want to look at them. But if I came across them, I'd throw them out. But I wouldn't have actively done so. On some level, it's just embarrassing to deal with.

As for the other stuff-- why not keep it in a box somewhere. When I'm 90, maybe I'll want to go through that stuff and take a trip down memory lane.

My point is: consider as part of your R process (if you choose to go through that) to make destroying this stuff TOGETHER a piece of it.

I don't know if I would judge her too too harshly for keeping it. But I WOULD judge her for lying by omission and for pretending she was someone she wasn't with you. That to me is more important. Actually, in a weird way, you are lucky she didn't destroy this stuff. Otherwise, you may have never known.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, March 10th (Monday)

years of pain, I pushed for the info. She didn't want to discuss it. I started to push her buttons in a very negative way and she let me have it, all of it. After 10 years with someone you know how to get them mad at you if you want too.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I thought I learned all about her past. Could it be that knowing what I did about her might have been a turn on. I did have self esteem issues that other guys were better than me and worked hard to prove to my self that I was as good as them. Could being with my wife have been part of it?

Wait, I'm confused now. Did you know she dated/slept around or not?

I know you know she wasn't a virgin... but you seem to be expressing both sides of the coin. Either you knew she slept with other men and what kind of men they were and that turned you on, or you knew she had a sexual past but that was it...


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I say this with a gentle voice Stu. I don't want to disregard the past here Stu. Not at all. Focus on the present and get to the past later. Focus on what's going on right now between you and your wife. Forget the alpha/beta thing for now. Forget about whether it was a turn on for you or not in the past. This is not 10 years ago. This is right now. Your wife is lying to you about her past. Why? Your wife is hanging onto documentation 10 years ago. Why? Your kids could have found that documentation. You did find that documentation. THAT is the F'n problem at the moment. Why is she like this with YOU Stu? WHY is she not willing to work with YOU? Why is she minimizing and not recognizing your pain? Forget "Adonis", your "friend" and all the others for a couple of minutes. What is the real problem right in front of you Stu? Is it all that shit in the past? Or is it your wife standing in front of you now?


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, March 10th (Monday)

sorry. cross posting:

years of pain, I pushed for the info. She didn't want to discuss it. I started to push her buttons in a very negative way and she let me have it, all of it. After 10 years with someone you know how to get them mad at you if you want too.

I hear that Stu. But I see this statement as the current bigger problem. She's not willing to work with you. She's not willing to look at any of her interactions WITH YOU as a problem. Why? (rhetorical question). She may not ever give you the why. So what do you want to do about it? Are you willing to stop being upset about this and go along with her? Fine if you do. If that's the case then concentrate on the symptoms. Personally I would prefer to concentrate on what causes the symptoms.

I'm very genuinely worried about you here Stu.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Since the stuff was boxed at her parents house and we only just got them after they passed away I think she just forgot about them They had been covered with tarps and were quite dirty. Some boxes had newspaper in them that were 15 or more years old. I called my mother and she told me she had boxes from when I was in college, I don't remember them at all. I will maybe give my wife that. If it weren't my wife, and I was horney there is plenty to occupy my private time(I'm trying to be funny. This a first for me in in a long time, finding something funny.)

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Stu - I am sorry you found out more lying and deception.

There seems to be several indicating that it would be a good idea to destroy this new information. When you are satisfied that you have the truth, all of it, then that may be an excellent idea. Right now you need to take possession of this evidence until you understand the truth of what is going on.

Right now you have a couple possiblities - either prior to being married your wife lied/deceived you and has continued to hold onto these pre-marriage lies until now. Or you are just beginning to understand the lies/deception/cheating that your wife has gone to. The fact she refuses MC is a red flag there is more.

Right now you are a detective trying to figure out what just happened. Police don't go throwing away evidence during the trial. Look at it that way. When the trial is over - go ahead and destroy the evidence.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, March 10th (Monday)

PhantomLimb, I new she wasn't a virgin and I asked her about her past boyfriends, I had never slept with a women before and I wanted to know what to do and what would make her happy sexually; I said this some where. She was reluctant, but I just asked again.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Humor helps you ease some pain. She might have totally have forgotten what was in the boxes, have you spoken to her about it? Mention your friend?
Here's another my counselor told me
draw a rectangle.
then a cross inside it.
On top write "THE TRUTH"
on the left side write Helpful
underneath that write Not Helpful
Then ask your self questions and put a mark.
For example "Like if she cared for your friend, while she was with him."
Would that be helpful or would it not be helpful in your marriage. Ask yourself do you really want to know these question and will they be helpful for you to move pass it or will it not be.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, March 10th (Monday)

ReunitePangea is right Stu.

Let me out this to you anther way Stu. The shoe is on the other foot in my house. I have way more sexual experience than my wife and she knows it. She knows a lot that she doesn't care to know about and some that was thrust upon her because my ex to this day still hangs around with my family. I had to tell her certain things about my past in case they ever reared their ugly head. I worked with my wife very early on to make sure she was comfortable no matter how embarrassing it was for me. I continue to work on things with her today as some of it crept into our marriage as recently as last year. I got rid of all of my photos and love letters before we moved in together because I knew she was the one and I didn't want to hurt her with that shit. That's what most people do when they think of their significant other. Even if that stuff is that their parent's house because that's where mine was. Hidden in their attic. Most people don't want to hurt their significant other and get rid of that stuff no matter where it is. I don't want to make this about me and I could go on and on about the details. This is about you and your wife. Why is she not willing to do the same with you? Just embarrassment? Take a trip down memory lane with you? I'm not buying that she just didn't deal with it and is embarrassed. If that's the case she would work with you.

Destroying that stuff is an excellent idea for later. What do you want to do today?


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I agree with you yearsofpain at some point but really why would you want to sit down and see pictures of your spouse with someone else? These aren't just pictures of them at Disney Land these are explicit photos.
I am like Stu, I didn't have other partners and my husband had many other women. I don't want to go back into his past and relive who he's been with.
Stu are you regretting not doing/being with more women? I thought of that when I saw my husband's list and wonder why I just didn't sleep around the way he did.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, March 10th (Monday)

oh no! I see your point yme32313. I wasn't trying to say that at all and that's not the point I was trying to make. I got rid of all that stuff BEFORE my wife could see it. I didn't want to hurt her with that stuff so I got rid of it. It wasn't the documentation that was thrust in my wife's face, it was the sexuality of my ex that was still living with my mother and the shit that was said to her. I verbally had to prepare her for that. I came clean verbally before any of it came out and destroyed all the evidence. But I had no idea what other people had and could sent to my wife. I was/am willing to do anything for my wife so that she gets what she needs.

That's my point. I didn't/don't want my wife to have to re-live my past either. Which is why I got rid of everything and sat with her and worked with her. Why would she not do the same and work with him on this stuff? I think it has to be more than embarrassment. Why keep all that explicit documentation around especially at your parent's house? Or anywhere that it could be found? That's more than just careless.

Sorry Stu that I have posted so many times here today. I really do feel your pain and I am genuinely concerned for you. I'll back off as I think I've made my point.

Thinking of you Stu.

ETA - grammer corrections

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 2:01 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, March 10th (Monday)

yearsofpain, you said you were the more experienced one. It just hit me, could it be, maybe I'm feeling inadequate. My wife was the experienced one and I kept asking her about her past. Why, to live vicariously through her experiences. I said I did have self esteem issues that I worked at over coming.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Gently, Stu... I don't really see why that is a critical point right now. I mean, whatever is going through your mind as you come to grips with this is totally valid and this kind of question is the perfect thing to work on in therapy... but...

What are you doing to address the central issue here? Your wife has been lying through omission to you for years. Are you planning to do the 180? Do you want R?


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Maybe Stu. My wife has expressed inadequacies in the past that were all irrational and I let her know in so many ways that she is the best at everything in every way. That's what I showed my wife. That's what I continue to show her. For what it's worth, I don't think the amount of partner's matters. I'm going to exaggerate the numbers here a bit. I have had sex with far fewer people than my wife. Let's say she has had sex with 12 and I have had sex with 5. She didn't have a lot of sex with 12 guys and all of it was terribly bad for her. While I had sex with 5 partners, 3 of which were long term live in girlfriends where we were having sex every day and were having very "adventurous" rewarding sex. She felt totally inadequate in that way.

Is this similar to what you are feeling? Have you let your wife know this? I don't want you to lose track of that she's not working with you on this stuff. That's what alarms me. I bend over backwards and then some to work on my wife with this stuff. I can't fathom keeping all of my old "documentation" around past the relationship or ONS that I was in. The next "true relationship" that come along pays the price. There are just so many things that do not add up with your wife Stu. I'm worried.

I don't want you to lose sight of the issue at hand Stu. What is going on with your wife? Do you want to 180? Do you want to separate so you can get well? Those are the issues/questions you need to ask.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Exactly what Phantom Limb just said. Cross posting again or I would have included that in my message.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Stu,
like me you wish you were the ONLY one but you weren't and you feel that you should ask how they were with them and see if you live up to their standards. I'm thinking a lot like you!
Now I understand you yearsofpain, my husband had thrown somethings out but others he didn't that I ended up finding out said that he just forgot because he hadn't seen them in years. That's how I discovered his betrayal. I'm with Stu finding this out years later.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, March 10th (Monday)

My husband said there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between making love and having sex. Are you making love, Stu?


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I have been confronting all of this directly and have discussed this with my wife. As I said in an earlier post she said we have discussed this to death. She has said Iím battering her with all my questions, it happened and it canít be undone. She said she has nothing to apologies for, she had told me she had an upcoming date and thought our relationship was over or ending. She said it is very uncomfortable for her, she doesn't want to talk about anything relating to sex or sexual activity. She began to cry and asked me what her favorite song was, I didn't know, and she began crying even more. She wrote down on a piece of paper the title, "Someone to Watch Over Me." I asked her about IC or MC an she said she was afraid where it might lead. I haven't discussed the pictures, diary or what I learned from my best friend. I'm meeting later so we can talk more. He said I can ask him anything I wish, everything will be on the table.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Stu

Can I make a suggestion.

Burn everything you found with your wife.

And while it was nice your friend told you the truth that he was involved with your wife before your marriage she should have told you.

If you wife has been great to you all these years and been a great mother than all you can do is bury the past.

Because if you keep digging in the past with your wife you are going to kill the future.

And the fact was you two were not married at the time she had her fling with the Adonis. Was it a crappy thing she did? Sure.

Was there anything you could have done about it? No.

And if you give your wife sever consequences now you can kiss your marriage goodbye.

like I said take all her old "pics" of her past boyfriends and burn them together.

And make sure she discloses any others that you are both friends with. I think she owes you that.

HM


Posts: 899 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, March 10th (Monday)

My husband told me the same thing.
It was a long time ago.
We were just dating.
Didn't think we would last.
Never saw them as a relationship only sex.
We are kind of beating them up with all these questions when really we want to move on.
WE NEED to live in the present there is no way we can go back.
Try to think of a time that you've done something that hurt someone you care about and regretted it. It doesn't have to be cheating, just anything. Now imagine that years later, that person keeps asking you for more details about that thing you did that hurt them. It's basically saying, "Tell me more about that time you really fucked up and hurt me." How horrible would you feel? How long do you plan on making her pay for what she did.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, March 10th (Monday)

As male this may sound strange, I put of intercourse until I found the right women. My guy friends who were screwing left and right would call a girl, a "P..y." I had many opportunities,I chose to wait. After spending hours (about 9 to 12 hours) with her on our first date, I knew she was the woman I loved. I did not intend to have sex with her. I asked If I could sleep over, I lived a long drive from her house. I did mean sleep over. I had made a bed on the floor. She said why don't I share her bed, it would be more comfortable. The rest is history. At that time my friends (guys and girls) told me I was the woman and she must have thought I was a great piece of ass.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, March 10th (Monday)

happyman and yme, what you say makes sense, however I'm not there yet, the pain is to great. I said this in another post, I love my wife and hate her at the same time. There are times I want to hurt her like she has hurt me (I don't mean physically)emotionally.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I told you I know how you feel, I found this out in July, when did you find out?
There are times and still times I want to hurt him. I want him to feel the same pain as I do and the past few months have been miserable for us. I lost weight, he lost weight. I cried he cried. I couldn't sleep, he wasn't sleeping.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, March 10th (Monday)

happyman and yme are not wrong here Stu. There are many ways to look at and approach your situation. You don't want to beat the past to death. I'm more focused on the current relationship with your wife.

she was afraid where it might lead

Tell her you should face your fears together. That in order for you both to get well you will work on this together. This is what you need. This is what she needs. She also needs to work on her issues/fears. Just like you need to work on your issues. If she can't see that, then you need to think of yourself so that you can get better. Or is she hiding something else that she's not willing to face? You need to tell her the fact that you know a lot more than you have told her. You have to. That is not fair to withhold information like that on her. Then see what she says about working on this stuff together. If she continues to minimize and say there is nothing wrong, then what are you going to do to make yourself better? What's your plan for that? 180? Have you read up on it in the healing library?


There are times I want to hurt her like she has hurt me

^^^^This really worries me. You can't have that Stu. She can't have that either. I get that you want to make her feel what you have felt. Many of us here at SI say similar things. That is not you talking. That is your pain. However, you've eluded to the fact that you have done some things that may have hurt her in earlier posts. You need to get help for yourself and if she's not willing to work with you on that there is a problem. This needs to be addressed immediately before you do it again. I continue to say to you, what do you need to do to make yourself get better? What's your plan for that? Do you need to detach and do a 180 NOT JUST FOR YOU, but for HER also?

There are really unhealthy things going on here for both of you Stu. There is so much going on here. How are you going to work through this if she is not going to work with you? What can you do to focus on the issue at hand?

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 3:37 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I second yearsofpain25 here, Stu.

Minor 2x4, but it hasn't escaped notice that you choose not to answer the questions about WHAT you're going to do about this... you just keep responding with more speculation about your own mental state and your evolving emotions.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I agree with yearsofpain. What do you want to do in this marriage?


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, March 10th (Monday)

In response to some questions:
a)I learned about this in Jan. after a New Years party, I believe it is day 67 since I was told. I have been living with this info myself. I didn't have a person I could talk to about this. Not being able to get it off my chest, not a person to talk to. It wasn't until I went on the computer that I have found a way to get it out. The unknown friends who have shared, has helped.
b)I love my wife, we have shared many good things together, I still think I am lucky to be with her. Right now I'm not sure why. I think I, we can save our marriage. I told her this morning that I hope we can talk about all of this some day and laugh at it.
c) go to MC and or IC together or alone
Those of you who have gone through this, is this possible? I have faced challenges before and worked to over come them. Can this be done?
Right now I'm to close to the problem, the pain is great. Thursday I will see my doctor. I have lost almost 25 to 30 lbs. I am hopeful!

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I went with my husband to MC and our counselor didn't help at all. She blamed me that I chose to be faithful to him and I didn't have to be....(who the hell says that)
I decided to go at counseling alone and to be honest I saw 3 counselors total.
1) One the phone (who told me to leave him).
2) One out of town (from a small town didn't want everyone to know) she helped a lot but the drive was too much.
3) Who I'm seeing now is located here in town but is not from here so he doesn't know me. He's done wonders with me. He's the one who's advice I'm trying to give you that has helped.
You need to get to the root of your problem and to be honest it's more YOU than it is of her. My counselor has found out so much things about me that is why I held on to this so hard and still do.
It is a work in progress. But you can overcome this, if you love your wife the way you say you do.
I set ground rules for husband (get rid of everything that can hurt me). I don't want to be surprised doing it together and he did get rid of everything and he still is when he cleans. I promised not to snoop anymore to hurt myself. No communication at all with his past conquest, even if they are "just friends" now. If he can't talk or text or email in front of me, I label it as cheating.
I have access to his emails and phone access.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, March 10th (Monday)

YME, I'm meeting my BF in 20 min. at his house and we are going to just talk. It will be about me, him, and my wife. He said he will hold nothing back, everything will be no the table. I'll post later

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Tonight will define who I am as a person and my actions will affect my wife, children, family, and friends. I met with my BF and learned why my wife has been reluctant to discuss any aspects of her life before I entered it. He got involved when I asked him to help me with my flooded basement. To make this short. My wife had more boxes in the basement that were damaged by water. My BF moved some and they fell apart and nude and clothed pictures of my wife and guys were on the floor. My BF picked them up and eventually told me he knew about everything. He had dated my wife years ago for almost a year; this was long before me and they sort of kept in touch. This was when he and I went off to different colleges. He and my wife chose to keep this a secret from me and his wife. She gets jealous and he didnít want our friendship to suffer; Iíve known him so long heís more than a brother.
In freshmen year my wife was into photography with her boyfriend, they were art majors and used each other as nude models; it started out as a class project in nude study. She split from him and shacked up with another guy who also was into photography; this was around 98 or 99. Someone saw her nude pics at an art show and asked her if she wanted to model. She did and a few pics got published in some obscure menís magazines; she did get paid for her work. My BF met her around this time and the two lived together for a while; I think this was about her 2nd year in college. She was still modeling. Just before spring break she got an offer to do a photo shoot in Puerto Rico. My Bf told her not to do it, he smelled something out of the ordinary; she did it. My BF and she split up. She went to PR and was romanced my some guy Iíll call Paco. She lived with him and he introduced her to drugs. She kept modeling, but for sleazy porn type mags. From this trash she got into the film porn business; my BF thinks she made 3 or 4 short movies. Around 2000 she called my BF for help. He brought her back and got her into rehab. With his help and her family she was clean and returned to school. My BF and she went their separate ways, but he was always a call away for her. She continued to stay of drugs. He said she did have a problem picking the right kind of guys to date; she picked guys who were out for what they could get. A guy would show interest and give her affection, she was theirs. He tried to intervene, but he was a few states away and dating his wife. He did get her to go for counseling. It helped; she graduated with honors a year before I met her. He said she wants to forget that part of her life and never go there again. Thatís why she wonít discuss any part of that life, itís like it never happened. Since she has been with me she has been happy. He doesnít know why she told me about that weekend. She had told him about it and swore she would never tell me. It was in the past and she wanted it buried. I am going to keep my mouth closed and try and forget everything. Iím going for IC to deal with my issues and Iíll see what happens. I love my wife and I want to stay with her as long as possible. The anger I have Iíll have to work through it. As far as the mind pics, a good internet friend gave me some suggestions.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, March 10th (Monday)

I hope my friends will continue to post and give me suggestions. I know the road I'm taking won't be an easy one. I will probably have some regression in my progress. But that's what sights like this are for.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, March 10th (Monday)

You ok Stu? I popped in before going to sleep. Read that twice. I don't even know what to say. I do have one thought. But I want to know that you are ok first and foremost.

ETA - is there anything else you personally feel you need to know about your wife's past and do you feel comfortable with the last 10 years since you have been together?

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 10:46 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, March 10th (Monday)

You say you love your wife. I have no doubt you do. If you are satisfied that you know enough and there is nothing else to learn, then turn towards your wife. Hold her tight. Hold her long. Tell her you know and that she doesn't have to respond. No secrets Stu. Ask anyone on this site and they will let you know that secrets are a killer. The truth shall set you free. It will set her free to. She can't be happy with herself keeping this all from you but certainly explains why she's scared to death to tell you. Let her know that you know. Tell her how much you love her. Show her how much you love her. Hold her close. Tell her you need IC for yourself to get through this and when/if she feels up for it you would like to MC too. You are going to need help to get through this and let her know that. But also let her know and show her how much you love her. Turn towards her. Let her know that you are going to need her help processing this.

What do you think you need from her Stu? IC for you for sure. Like you said it's going to be hard but you can do this.

Wishing you strength and courage Stu

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 11:22 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
absolut
Member
Member # 37933
Default  Posted: 11:52 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Really I think you should stay with your wife.

No offense but you seem intent to add on to the original story and I wonder if it's designed to get people to tell you to leave her. Because just from the original post, it seemed you always knew she'd slept with that guy.

And you seem obsessed with her sexual history to the point where you need to believe it's some craziness.


Posts: 421 | Registered: Dec 2012
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:46 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

YEARSOFPAIN, thank you. This has not been an easy trip IĎve been on. Iím OK! Finding this internet sight and responding to the comments, pro and con has helped to save my sanity. After what I found out about my wife, itís like a weight has been lifted, and I donít need to know anything else. Knowing more or less wonít change a thing. Some of you might think Iím nuts. Your saying how can he except a women who has done what she has done. I have been married for ten years to a person who has overcome many obstacles and the last 10 years are proof that sheís a great person. The last 10 years have shown what kind of person my wife is and those are the years that count; Iím proud to be her husband. My BF has also shown what a person he is and my faith in him is even stronger. He helped to save a life and more. If it werenít for his efforts my children wouldnít be here or my wife. My wife might have wound up dead from drugs or physical abuse. My BF told me Paco did smack her around, she must have fallen to the lowest point possible, to be abused and used the way my BF says she was. Iím going to keep this secret. If and when my wife feels comfortable to talk about it Iíll be there. Iím going for IC, so it can help me deal with all of this. If my wife wants to join me; great. Someone made the suggestion that I change history. Iím going out tomorrow and by a ring and then ask my wife to marry me. That will be the date we celebrate from now on.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 2:43 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Okay, wait a minute. Let me get this straight.

Your wife had a relationship with/ lived with your best friend for nearly a year before you met her. They broke up because she was a nude model who was conned into going to PR, which led to her dropping out of school, ending up in a physically abusive relationship with a drug addict and supporting herself by doing porn. In the meantime, no one from her family and none of her friends tried to intervene. Eventually she decided on her own that she was tired of the whole drug addict/porn thing and that she wanted to go home and rehab so she could go back to school to become an honors student. She met you shortly thereafter and you got married, but not before she managed to pick up a Brown medicial student Adonis with whom she had one of her old photo/porn parties. She'd like to forget the past, but she still keeps around a few old snaps and diaries chronicling her escapades in some moldy old boxes she stored in the basement of her now-dead parents who, again, while they were alive, did nothing about their daughter dropping out of school and making pornos in PR.

And your response is to rugsweep all of this, keep it a secret, accept your friend's crazy-ass story on its face, never talk to your wife about it, give her a hug and then re-propose marriage to her in the morning.

...
...

Do they have a "head exploding" emoticon on this thing?


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Major 2x4 in this post Stu. Read PhantomLimb's last post above again.

And your response is to rugsweep all of this, keep it a secret, accept your friend's crazy-ass story on its face, never talk to your wife about it, give her a hug and then re-propose marriage to her in the morning.

...
...

Do they have a "head exploding" emoticon on this thing?


Ditto.


I said turn towards your wife Stu. You have to let her know that you know everything. As of right now there are 42,738 people that landed on this site because someone thought it was ok to not be completely truthful in some way. You can't rugsweep this Stu. If you want to propose to your wife and show her how much you love her great!! That's a huge gesture. But you do realize that if you do and keep this a secret from her you are no better off than you were before. That type of thinking is what landed you here in the first place. By not letting her know or discussing with her, you are in a sense turning away from her. Wouldn't you rather have a proposal be based on complete open honesty and transparency?

There's only 2 reasons that I can think of for not telling her. Either you are settling some sort of score by keeping this to yourself like she did, or you are afraid to talk to her about it. I'm going with you are afraid to talk to her about it. What are you afraid of Stu?


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

^^^ This. Great take. I said before the truth will se you free. NO MORE SECRETS STU! DON'T you be a secret enabler also.

You can't have an intimate loving relationship based on hiding yourselves. As YOP asked, what are you afraid of?

or, are you trying to reclaim your self by being a 'rescuer' - and keeping this secret is your way of martyring yourself?

no secrecy my man.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Stu - I am so glad that you have been able to learn the truth to what has been bothering you. The story you were given makes sense and explains much of the actions you have been seeing.

Rugsweep is very much an overused term here. Sometimes I feel anything short of discussing/debating/arguing this stuff every night with your spouse is considered rugsweeping on here. Sometimes you need to learn to give some space and let your spouse be ready as well. Just because you are ready this very minute doesn't mean that they are. Especially because it sounds as if the issues you are dealing with are very much in the past and not a current threat.

You planning to go to IC to further understand somethings is hardly rugsweeping. That is a good place for you to work through things you are still dealing with. At some point in time I think you will need to give your wife a sign that you know and you are always here for her if she wants to. You know your wife, I am sure you will find a way to give her that sign. Given how this has been such a big focus lately, it may be best to give it some space for now. My guess is in time, she will want to discuss this with you. She carries a very large burden carrying this information for so long, her fear of what you would think of her likely has haunted her all of this time. She will love you more if you can find a way to let her ease this burden.

I think the ring idea is beautiful. I know you said you are going out tomorrow. Slow it down Stu and plan this one out well - find a way to make it special. Good luck, I wish you well.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

I'm sure you realize that what I wrote isn't everything, I couldnít have possible stated it all. Yes my BF helped, her family helped along with others. She didnít recover overnight, it was a long process with professional help, and she had a support structure there at every step. There were set backs along her recovery. I would have to write pages, a book to explain everything. I'm not confronting my wife until I'm mentally OK and I'll get there with IC first and then MC. If and when the professionally trained psychologist or psychiatrist helps me put my demons to rest, then I'll be in a better position to help her at whatever she might need, or professionals will, so we both will be mentally well. If after all that we go our separate ways at least Iíll know I, or we tried.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

I don't mean to harp on this, Stu, but I'm a little flabbergasted. You never knew she missed some school? That she lived traveled out of the country for a time? That she had been involved with drugs? You wouldn't have to know about the nude modeling/porn, etc to know those other things.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Stu23-

when I first read your post, I figured there was more, you know why ? Your wife's behavior is indicative of a abuse survivor. BTDT.

Look, While this happened in not a way anyone would have expected, you know the truth now. That is worth something. You know about it and don't have to wonder.

You have been given a golden opportunity to go to your wife and tell her that you know, you aren't judging her and want to be there for her as her husband. You really want to support her and you are there to talk about it if she wants to. Then give her some space about this topic. Also tell her that despite her motivations the lies have to stop now. No more in the future, if she wants this M to work it has to be based on honesty and openness. I would tell her that you are going to attend therapy to sort out what this means for you and you will need her support.

You only take away the shame of the past by openly discussing it (between the two of you). Painful, yes, but it is important. It won't happen all at once, it takes time.

Like I said, she was broke (and still is) for someone who is broken to keep it together this long is a proud accomplishment (Use kinder words than me, I can be a little blunt). You can take some of the credit for that. Her past has taught her not to trust men and she overcame that because she felt you were worth it. She loves you, think of that before trying to discuss any of this. Hugs, holding her while she cries and letting her talk without interruption are important. Keep reminding her that you believe you both can get through this, but it can't just be ignored any longer.

The photo shoot with the scumbag (Doctors can be scumbags too, character has nothing to do with status, education or income) was more than likely her "Acting out," her past traumas to try and gain some control over them, or if you will, overwriting it in a way that attempts to make her feel less like a victim. Unfortunately part of that brokenness hurt you in one of the worst ways. She shared her abuse with you. You are a victim in that regard.

Look I am an abuse survivor(physical and emotional) and I can relate to acting out past abuse situations. It is scary, it hurts and I get why she didn't want to talk about it (to this day I avoid it like the plague). I was lucky, one of my acting out episodes landed me in trouble with the law. I was FORCED to get help to deal with my past. Had I not I wouldn't be in the JFO forum. I more than likely would have ended up in the opposite end of this spectrum. I get how our past traumas dictate how we react sometimes. Not talking about it is not an option. You deal with it or it deals with you in unexpected and sometimes destructive ways. Your W really does need help in addressing this and you need help as a partner of a abuse survivor. She has to want to get help, for her. Remind her that her life isn't just about her anymore. You and your children need a wife/mother who is present and capable of loving with all her heart. (Abuse survivors tends withhold some and it shows in their primary relationships).

No one can force your W to talk about this or get help, but by being supportive and kind to her, you more than any person on this planet has that chance. She may talk in little dribs and drabs. When she opens up, listen and then gently suggest therapy. Always listen and be supportive. Hug her, tell her you are sorry for what she went through, you know it wasn't her fault, etc. Be the guy she knows you to be. If you are already going to IC and she sees progress it might be a good motivator.

I am 100% with you on the IC front. An IC is going to help you deal with this and probably will help you address this with your W in ways most likely to break the wall she has put up in your M. She is shutting you out and that is not the way to live in a M.

Whatever the details, you are married and being married means you accept everything about the other person, the good, the bad and the ugly. That being said I still feel that your W does owe you an apology. Only when asked and can something truly be forgiven. You should also know exactly what you are forgiving and what you are not (things that aren't yours to forgive)

On the ring thing, I would wait. It will be more meaningful after you both have had some time to heal your past and are ready to focus on the future without the baggage.

Once you've had a chance to figure out how to cope with this (in IC) A more symbolic gesture would be for her to burn all of the pictures and journals from the past. Once dealt with this can fade into the past where it isn't hidden out of shame, but it longer holds the power over either of you it once did. The second proposal, if given too soon, may just end up biting you in the metaphorical ass again. After all, you need to be safe from abuse the M too. (withholding can be a form of abuse)

FWIW- Tread carefully on this one, but equating what she did with OM while on the phone with you, and later in person, could easily be considered abusive. It might make her realize how much this hurt you. The biggest fear any abuse survivor has is that they, in turn, become a perpetrator.

Take care. I also think it best for you to get away from home for a little while to clear your head. Too much has gone on recently and you need a break.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2559 | Registered: May 2010
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

hey brother, just a couple of quick points.

Your wife's behavior is indicative of a abuse survivor. BTDT.

Absolutely^^^^^Left untreated you have an almost guaranteed reoccurrence. By treated, that means she needs to be actively involved and want to make the changes.

You said that she has had therapy before. If she still has those pictures and journals, I would guess that she didn't actively participate nor really want to make the changes necessary for health.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

NUMB&DUMB, thank for the kind words, and the time and energy to help me. If I could give you a "HUG" I would. Thank you and please keep your strength coming my way (pro or con), I will need it.
5454real, there is a history behind those boxes and pics. For now, they were put in her parentís basement when she was in rehab. and as far as the Adonis jerks pics and diary, stress, insecurities, poor judgment, indecisiveness what have you were involved. I donít know what was really going through her mind. My BF thinks the jerk might have played with her vulnerability and stroked her emotionally; itís only a guess on his part. She chose me, and the last ten years she has been happy.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Brother, BTDT. When FWW was 12 or 13 her AP used her as his personal cum dumpster. Did so for 4-5 years. We were *happily*(all M's have their share of baggage) for 9 years. He re-contacted her through FB at a time of great stress for her. Took him 13 days of texting/sexting to get her to drive 3 hours for a quickie.

One of her job responsibilities is teaching ethics.

I know where you're coming from.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

PhantomLimb, I had no idea, I only new what she told me. When your with someone, what do you really know about their past, unless your actively involved with them you don't. My BF and I were very close and yet look at what I didn't know. I knew when he and his wife kissed, had sex for the first time, he told me and asked my advice.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

I believe this is why she doesn't want to go into counseling because you'll find out about her bad past. Then the marriage would be over because of it. Us women think like that, how could he ever expect to be with me if I was that trashy back then.
You really do need to reassure her that you know and you're there to help her in any way you can. I have a past myself(we all do) I never told my husband while we were together that I was sexually molested. I hid that from him, he kind of figured it out while we were fighting but I still kind of figured it was none of his business. I went into counseling when I was a little girl when that happen and overcame it. End of story and I believe that is what your wife is thinking as well she over came her addiction, got away from the wrong people and she just doesn't want to relive it. Been there and done that.
While married or knowing people more you find out way later on in your life that they have a past as well and would have never thought they would what they have done.
I found out that my husband slept with his best friend's wife while he watched. I would never do such a thing and I've talked about how people can be so low to do something like that. Now I find out that my husband was one of them. He said that's something he's not proud of, but he did do it because he thought that was the "in" thing.
Our counselor says we should discuss our past but if it's going to be hurtful than maybe it be best we do it in front of him for him to help and not make our conversation worst.
I believe you need to see a counselor on your own first and try to get to the root of your problem. Like why you can't let the past be the past.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Like I said, she was broke (and still is) for someone who is broken to keep it together this long is a proud accomplishment (Use kinder words than me, I can be a little blunt). You can take some of the credit for that. Her past has taught her not to trust men and she overcame that because she felt you were worth it. She loves you, think of that before trying to discuss any of this. Hugs, holding her while she cries and letting her talk without interruption are important. Keep reminding her that you believe you both can get through this, but it can't just be ignored any longer.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Stu, I have been harping about communication for the two of you. You have found massive amounts of information in the last few days, and while it is a HUGE weight off of your shoulders, the problems still exist. Your wife has quite a history, but where she shielded it to protect herself, she wound up damaging you beyond comprehension.

This is where communication is key. Secrets almost always do more harm than good. What you need to do is convince her that you are her ally, but that you need honesty in a healthy relationship. The others here have stated this very well. Don't stuff all these emotions and feelings deep down. IC is a great idea. Communicating with your wife is even a better one. Doing both together may be your best option.

Think about it.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

I have tried to talk to her about this Adonis jerk and she says Iím tormenting her with my discussions, my questions. She says she doesnít want to talk about it or anything sexual, these discussions make her uncomfortable. She keeps telling me she is uncomfortable, it is upsetting. Are there any suggestions on how to approach talking to her if she just doesnít want to have a talk with me? Now if I approach her with stuff she has emotionally buried and wanted to keep a secret, how am I able to help her then.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Like I stated you need to go to counseling let the counselor be the one to invite her in. They can be the referee in your discussion.
But you need to go alone first and work out your problems.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Yes, the more I learn, I agree as yme said, let the counselor lead or as she said referee the discussion. This way I'm insulated and can be supportive of whatever my wife chooses to do or say. I'm sure as my wife becomes more comfortable and trusts the counselor she will open up.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

It will happen, it has happen to me. My husband believes we should leave things in the past because it's already done with.
The more I speak to my counselor the more I believe it is true.
How can you go on in a marriage if you keep reliving the painful past? And it sucks!!!


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Why is the 180 and talking to a lawyer and all the standard stuff that's suggested for an unremorseful spouse not being pushed very hard on this thread?

(I'm genuinely curious--it seems like all that stuff is pretty much universally suggested in most similar situations.)


Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 842 | Registered: Nov 2012
twisted
Member
Member # 8873
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

[This message edited by twisted at 2:20 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)]


"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

Posts: 911 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Oklahoma
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Why is the 180 and talking to a lawyer and all the standard stuff that's suggested for an unremorseful spouse not being pushed very hard on this thread?

I don't think 180 is appropriate in this case in my opinion. The evidence is very strong that this was a long time ago before they were married. I think it is cheating but stu best solution will not be do force this viewpoint given the other circumstances involved. His wife clearly is indicating what she did was not cheating - she isnt saying it didn't happen. With the abuse potential and other issues some sensitivity is certainly warrented in my opinion. A hard 180 would do the opposite.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Probable,

Stu isn't dealing with a flagrant wayward. If we want technicalities, she never "openly" cheated on Stu.

She, like others here, carry a lot of baggage. I believe that she is trying to communicate, albeit in her unhealthy coping mechanisms. That is why Stu needs to knock down that protective emotional wall that his wife possesses. I can not see her progressing without professional help.

Now, if she REFUSES to cooperate, that will leave Stu with only a couple of choices---(1)take it, and have an unhealthy marriage(because she will continue to keep her emotional walls up), or (2)not take it...and then let the 180, and following actions, apply.

Again, this is just my opinion. You do what you think is best for you.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

I had no idea, I only new what she told me. When your with someone, what do you really know about their past, unless your actively involved with them you don't. My BF and I were very close and yet look at what I didn't know.

Gently, this is a sign that you need to work on a number of things about yourself. This includes your "picker" when it comes to friends and your spouse.

Granted any of us who have been betrayed have been in the same boat in terms of not being aware of things about our SO and, sometimes, our friends. But this is why, while we are not to blame for our spouse's infidelity, we are still responsible for evaluating our own tendencies to do things like rugsweep, tolerate abuse, etc.

Also, to me, it's a sign that your so-called BF is not your friend. He certainly didn't have your back. He was selfish and enabling.

I agree with IceCream that the 180 is appropriate. Maybe she's not involved in an active affair. Maybe she's reigned herself in within the confines of your M. But, if all of this story is true, Stu, your wife has massive, massive issues. And she's not willing to work on them right now. And your willingness to put up with this, to support her, to keep this a secret don't communicate to me that you're compassionate and understanding. They tell me that you are codependent.

My advice would be to tell your wife you know something (I'm careful here not to say "everything" because, frankly, I don't know why we are trusting your "BF" as far as we can throw him). If that is best handled in the office of an IC, through a letter, whatever, that's fine. But I would tell her that you are willing to stay in the M, willing to support her, but she has to meet you at least half-way. She has to demonstrate a willingness to deal with her shit. If she continues to stonewall, I say a hard 180 and you can reevaluate the M after she starts to take some accountability for taking care of herself and, by extension, you.

Or you could just keep it a secret, give her a hug and a ring and be content to let these revelations about her remain hidden. To let her struggle with them. To let her suffer. To let yourself suffer. To continue to live a life together based on a lack of communication, a lack of intimacy and a lack of respect.

Sorry for the 2x4 here, Stu. But again, if this is all true, I feel strongly that you are in an abusive situation here. You yourself admit you have insecurity issues and you idolize your wife. In my view, you are being willfully myopic about this situation and the result is that you are being continually lied to about the people around you and, therefore, emotionally abused. Sometimes emotional abuse comes into focus because our spouses cheat. Or sometimes it comes into view when you find out they have a hidden past everyone conspired to keep from you. Either way, it's abuse.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

I agree with what has happened to him is abuse, he put so much trust into her and to find this all out years later is a big betrayal on her part.
The one 180 where he needs to work on himself is a step he should take, he needs to put himself first and his feelings and try to over come this.
It's going to take you awhile Stu to forgive and fully trust again. Don't think this will happen overnight or end the next day.
I'm also worried about the friend, I hope his intentions are good and he's willing to help you out but he doesn't need to start telling more things that you didn't know. That's her job!


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

Stu, you know one thing that knowing the past is good for? Predicting future behavior.

I'm seeing things about both you and your wife that *concern* me. One of the biggest concerns about your wife is that her encounter with the OM who was the cause of you starting this thread (the only *A* word that I'll refer to him as has a few more letters than the name that *you've* given him), occurred AFTER she had done the rehab/therapy thing.....which is an indication that whatever she worked on in therapy at that time didn't *take*. There is a very strong indication that your wife has some pretty deep issues, and *white-knuckling* the impulse to act-out because of those issues will very rarely be able to be sustained for an extended period of time.

Wife's concerning issue #2: The *compartmentalization* that I'm seeing. She has always given you a very *vanilla* version of who she was pre-Stu. She gave you *just enough* to let you know that she had a sexual past, but she wasn't really truthful about all that her past entailed. I believe that, generally, pre-relationship sexual details are not really the *business* of a new partner. But in this case, there are indications that her pre-Stu-relationship behavior is due to more than just "wild-child"-phase behavior. Another tendril of this compartmentalization aspect that makes it even more concerning is how she is reacting now. She is running away from it. She wants it to *go back in the box* and not be spoken of. <--This type of reaction almost always signifies deception. This type of reaction typically is *more* than shame over past behavior. In my own personal experience, this type of behavior indicated the blowing up of a *double life.*

My concern about you is your assumption that she has been a faithful wife to you. Maybe she has been....maybe she has been able to *stuff* all of her issues in *the box*...and be content and happy with you, and I REALLY hope that is the case. HOWEVER. This is a VERY DANGEROUS assumption for you to make right now, because the truth is.....you don't REALLY *know*, you are assuming. If you read some of the other posts here, you will find many who thought their spouse was the *picture of virtue*...only to find out that their *picture* of what the reality was for them was TOTALLY wrong. It happens -- it happened to me -- you wouldn't be the first BS to be blind-sided with the information that your *life* was nothing like you thought it was.

Again, I'm NOT saying that is what is happening here.....what I am saying is that you need to *gird* yourself for the possibility that your wife may not turn out to be exactly who you *think* she is.

Regardless of any potential *marital misconduct* on her part....you're really not going to be able to lay what you now know about her past to rest and just *carry on*. You're still in the *shock* stage right now but, soon enough, you're gonna get hella pissed about the *thing* between you wife and your BF and the fact that you knew NOTHING about it. You keep mentioning that your BF's wife is the *jealous* type and I'm getting the feeling that you'lll be willing to *stuff* your true feelings about that issue so as not to also be seen as jealous. I won't go into detail about *why* I believe that you'll eventually get angry about this so as not to plant any premature seeds, but the anger WILL (most likely) come at some point in the future.

My tl/dr version is this: You and your wife need to *get real*. Your wife needs to relinquish her *box of secrets* and put everything on the table for you. You can still have a marriage even if she won't do that, but it won't be an authentic and true relationship.

And, due to what you have learned, you would be very well served to question her about her behavior during the marriage. IMO, any denial of marital misconduct should be followed by her agreement to take a polygraph.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

I read loud and clear what you all are telling me, basically the "Truth Will Set Us Free!" Question: What is wrong with my going to IC to get my head straight first? May wife is not discussing issues, says I'm badgering her. I comprehend the potential difficulties ahead. I believe that after a short time for me in IC my wife will participate in what ever why she is comfortable doing. The councilor with their experience should be able to get her to open up and discuss it with them. If I'm not there in her presence it might be easier for her. Then will the councilor bring us together to talk with out discomfort for either of us. I have never been to a councilor. Am I wrong, just blowing hot air? Please give me PROS and / or CONS. Thanks

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, March 11th (Tuesday)

An other thought, it has been mentioned many times that my wife take a polygraph. I have difficulty with this. It smacks of distrust, reminds me of the Jerry Springer Show. At this time I don't have a reason to believe my wife has been involved with another man. If it comes out in a month or two through counseling that she has, I'm out of this marriage. I will be there to help her heal emotionally, but not as her husband, I think(?).

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:34 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)

You will be going to IC to get your head straight about....what?

In an *ideal* world, what you described should happen. Problem with that is that *real* life interferes. You get a shitty counselor (which totally sucks). AND that pesky notion that you really cannot control anyone else. Your wife's interactions will only be as good as what she chooses to offer (refer back to that *compartmentalization* thing I talked about).

Here's my synopsized experience with a counselor post Dday...I KNEW my (now)stbx was lying about his past and so I was, shall I say, *less* than totally cooperative during MC. The counselor decided to see my (now)stbx on his own for a few sessions. And according to stbx, he confessed his prior *indiscretions* (which I didn't know about) and the counselor basically back-burnered them and told stbx not to say anything about them to me.

The problem is that *you* are still entrenched in the couple-mode mindset.....a world where it is you and your spouse against everyone else, etc. Dude, a new sun has risen and the game has changed.

You say that you comprehend the potential difficulties ahead.....and I am going to say an emphatic NO, you don't. This is your first foray into this type of shit and while you may *think* you know what you're doing? Trust me when I say that you don't. A lot of people who have responded to you have BTDT......gone *through* the fire and are further away from Dday than you are (myself included).

An other thought, it has been mentioned many times that my wife take a polygraph. I have difficulty with this. It smacks of distrust

Stu, your wife has given you reason to distrust her. Bottom line is that you NEED to know the truth about the life you've been living.

The thing is that you can now never go back to *not knowing*. The problem with that is that now you *know*. And EVEN IF you decide to drop all of the questioning and whatnot today....you'll still *know*, kwim?

You can absolutely carry out with the rug-sweeping plan that you put forth earlier.....but think of the barriers that your marriage will have. Your wife did *stuff*, YOU know that your wife did *stuff*, your wife knows that you know that she did *stuff*.....and yet, no one is going to *talk* about that stuff. That is a recipe for disaster....or total unhappiness.

Dude. Do you want a REAL marriage or a *superficial* one?

I am not telling you what path to take....I am only cautioning you to not commit to one way or another before you know exactly what you are dealing with.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)

As I said, I have 2 children 8 & 10. How do we / I keep them safe from all of this? My wife is a good protective mother. WE don't have any issues in front of them. Our family life has been rolling along as usual. I'm the one dealing with my personnel stress over what I have learned about my wife.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
spanz
New Member
Member # 42715
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)

10 years ago, that is a long time. Maybe you can try to forget?

[This message edited by spanz at 9:19 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 13 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: usa
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)

I am only going to comment on the IC issue as you have many others helping you with all the other stuff.

I personally think if you want to go to IC just for you then thats fine. If it will help you digest and get stronger after finding out all of this then I think thats great. Many times the BS, which I feel you have written here many times, has no idea how to approach the WS or communicate. And they have a WS who will not talk about it. Happens here all the time. A good IC will hopefully help you get to the root of why that is, why you as the BS cannot find a way to communicate what you want....almost all of the time it is fear based. Whatever those fears are, and to you they are legitimate right now, will be worked thru and talked thru with your own IC.

You cannot make a WS do anything as we all know on here. A BS can only control themselves. And my therapist way back when I went advised me to come on my own when my then WS did not want to go. He felt as my WS sees me going and feels me changing that he will either want to come on board or not. OR the BS will get strong enough to make a decision for the WS and the marriage at a later date.

So if YOU want to go and it is for YOUR issues thats great. Sometimes we all need a person who hears US and can help US.


Posts: 5673 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
alback
New Member
Member # 41336
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Stu, I have read your thread from start to finish. Very sorry for your situation... However, this is not a wife who believes she cheated on you, to her your relationship was over. The boundary was broken when she agreed to a date, accepted your proposal while mounting a guy she just met and continued her sexual fling until only hours before you arrived back to celebrate. It seems unbelievable that anyone could have such a low moral compass at that moment.

I can only comment from my own experience which is not unlike yours. My wife was not having sex at the time I proposed, she was into the beginnings of an affair, and her affair continued after we were married for a couple of months more. This took place 32 years ago, I only found out last year. The other similarity to yours is that my wife was abused as a teenager for years by her father. She never told me anything, and he died 5 years ago. Like your wife, mine has been an excellent mother to our children, and I believe faithful other than the one affair. She has compartmentalized this and doesn't remember very much about her childhood, our initial dates or her affair. We have tried hypnosis, and currently working it through with professionals (now on the third one). You can tell pretty quickly if they will be helpful.
I am hoping the therapy will open up her memory such that she can help me understand why this happened to us.

I believe you need to sit down with your wife, and explain that although this happened 10 years ago, the pain, anguish and torment to you is eating at you ever since her revelation. Explain that you have no one else to talk to about this, other than your BF, who you now know she dated and he has helped a great deal in enlightening you to some of her life before you met her. Now you know that she was also given a shit sandwich before yours and I am sure you feel badly for her. Explain that you both need to share to get through this.

In my opinion, she needs to see professional help. At first without you so she can speak freely. Later you can share sessions as she gains confidence in dealing with it. None of this will be easy on her or you, and it may open up many other boxes you may not like.

You are confident that your wife has been faithful to you since your proposal. Tell her of your true feelings about how her having sex 10 years ago, keeping pictures and diary intact , and subsequent leaving you disrespected as this guy taunted you with their secret. Explain to her if you are willing to work through this, but she must be completely honest and transparent now and going forward.

Know this, you do not know everything yet.

Good luck


Posts: 32 | Registered: Nov 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)

realitybites and alback, you two have stated (summarized) much better than I have what I believe should be done.

This morning I woke up from a dream that has been bothering me all day. It evolved my wife and my BF being sexually intimate and they were doing the things described in that diary and the pictures. Then a film crew was there filming. A director was giving orders to the cast as to what action was to go on with my wife. I was in a corner watching and wanting to hurt my BF. Of course my mind added a lot more porn detail. All day I have been cursing and angry at my BF for sleeping with my wife. There is no reason for my anger towards him, so why am I angry at him?


Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, March 12th (Wednesday)

You're angry about the betrayal that has been put on you. Since you really only know your best friend it is easy to put him in your dream because you know how he looks. You know she did porn and know what positions she's been in with the pictures. This is going to play over and over in your head for a long time.
I wake up thinking about what my husband did to me! I'm pissed off through out the day as well and at times don't even talk to him. Just to clear my head.
Are you doing any activities for yourself? I at least play Bingo once a week to get out of the house and clear my mind.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

All day I have been cursing and angry at my BF for sleeping with my wife. There is no reason for my anger towards him, so why am I angry at him?

Because, no matter what reasoning, two of the most important people in your life decided to keep information away from you.

Were they being malicious? Punitive? I don't believe so. But that doesn't make it much easier to digest. No one wants to think of their partner with someone else.

Counseling can help you deal with this. And counseling for your wife should be at the top of her priority list. Like gonnabe mentioned---do you want a shot at authentic marriage...or a superficial one?


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

I don't want a misunderstanding about what I just said about my wife and BF; it was a DREAM I had this morning about them. The question was, why am I angry at my BF. Yes, he and my wife lived together for a while, but this occurred many, many years before I met my wife, and I didn't even know he new her until recently.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Like I told you, it's because he's the only one you really actually know.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Yme, I donít want to do anything that will jeopardize my relationship with my BF. I have known him for years and he has always covered my back, his family is my family. He hasnít done anything to warrant my being pissed off at him. How can I guard agents transferring my anger to him because he once, many years ago, had an intimate relationship with my wife?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

It's going to be hard but you have to forgive and forget what he has done.
Do you forgive him for not telling you that he had been with your wife prior?
If you do you have to let it go and move forward with your wife and BF. They had no idea that in the future you'd be married to her.
Their relationship didn't work out but yours and her's did.

[This message edited by yme32313 at 12:56 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)]


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Yme, I went to his home after I wrote my last post. I told him about my dream and anger. He said he understood and if I need space, heíd back off until it was ok. I hugged him and said everything was ok and if I get ornery, just punch me. We talked for some time, had a beer, and I thanked him again for being there for my wife and her family. Then he said does my wife still do a certain thing when in bed, and he looked straight at me with a grinning smile, there was a long silence, I knew what he was talking about, and we both started laughing. He told me he was there for me 24/7. The relief now of having someone to talk to at anytime; I felt like rock had been lifted from my chest. He added that if my wife wanted to talk with him he was there for her and said he would encourage her to talk to me instead of him.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

She does need to talk to you. If you trust your BF wholeheartedly and he's the support you have for someone to talk to. Then I say go and speak freely to him. You need someone to talk to face to face.
I believe you still need to see an IC and work on your problems first hand. They can help you get through you trial and tribulations.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
ming56
Member
Member # 19505
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Your bf who helped rock your world looks directly at you and asks if your wife still does a certain thing in bed? Perhaps that is specific to your friendship with him, but that struck me as an inappropriate comment to make anytime, but particularly under the circumstances. That raises a lot of questions in my mind, but I will refrain from commenting further at this time...

Posts: 305 | Registered: May 2008 | From: east coast
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

I apologize for the way I wrote about my BFís comment regarding something my wife did in bed; I didn't re-read it before I posted it, or II would have written differently. Itís not sexual. I was excited and relieved that I finally had someone to dump my crap to. That I didnít have to worry about it, telling him stuff, or that I would be judged, and that my BF was still there to cover my back. My wife has this habit of taking her teddy bear to bed and putting it inside her night shirt so she wonít lose it during the night. It sort of looks strange having the head of the bear sticking out the top of her night shirt and the arms and legs bulging the shirt. It is a funny sight and I guess she has been doing it for years. When I asked her why she did that, she said it made her feel good, warm and secure. I just never thought a lot about it other than she looked funny and strange. She got bears for our kids and they do it sometimes.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Are you starting to feel better about this whole situation?


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Having a friend that I can talk to is helping. The fact that he knows more about my wifeí life than I do makes talking to him easier. He told me there is more stuff about my wife that he hasnít told me and right now he said itís not important. He would rather she tell me when she is ready. I know he will be talking with her as well. I hate to put him in the middle. Tonight I feel like I might be able to sleep at least 2 or 3 hours, I hope. The mind pics are still playing and the anger is still there, but when I talk with him, he has the ability to calm me down.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Hosea
Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Stu:
"He told me there is more stuff about my wife that he hasnít told me and right now he said itís not important. He would rather she tell me when she is ready."

Oh, man, after all you've been through, I hate reading this. I do hope, whatever it is she's still keeping from you, that you can get to a place of peace soon. You've been through enough already.


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Stu, I would seriously think twice about having your BF talk to your wife. Seriously. Those 2 have already proven their ability to keep secrets. I wouldn't want the guy saying anything to her other than: "Either you tell him or I will."

Have him as your friend, your buddy (if you're so inclined).....but keep him out of your marriage.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

I agree, he shouldn't talk to her. He really needs to stay out of your marriage. I know he's your best friend, your shoulder, and ear. Just have him be that. Go into counseling the counselor will know how to get her to open up more.
Really what more would you need to know?
You want to save the marriage right?
Why Relive the past?


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

I spoke to my BF and told him about this sight and the suggestions from you all. I brought up this site on his computer and he read all the posts. He said whatever I want to do is OK with him. As I said I didnít want him in the middle. So how Iím going to relate to my BF will just evolve, heíll be there to listen and be my sounding board. I asked him not to get in the middle of my marriage, heís ok with it. He said if my wife comes to him, heíll direct her to me.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)

Perfect.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
IsthereEVERanend
Member
Member # 42216
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, March 13th (Thursday)

I'm also one of the other posters on here who is wondering about WTH with your BF, as you so trustingly put it.


Me: Older than dirt
FWW 63
DD 8/1990 She confessed to a 2 month ea/pa
Asked forgiveness but volunteered to leave. No way was I going to give her the boot

The eight most feared words used together in the English language: We need to talk. Th


Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Utah
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, March 13th (Thursday)

We don't know how there friendship really is. But he seems to trust his friend. As long as your friend doesn't want to compare notes and bring up the past he had with your wife then vent all you want, he should only be there to listen to you. Not tell you what to do.
How are you doing today, Stu?


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:17 PM, March 13th (Thursday)

Last night my wife called my BF and wanted to talk with him. He told her that if it had to do with me, she should talk to me, not him. He told her that I was in bad shape since January, when she dumped that information about her screwing that Adonis guy the day I proposed to her. He told her that she needed to be there for me like he was there for her years ago. That, the knowledge of that incident with Adonis having been dumped into my lap was more than I could deal with. Also, that her reluctance to discuss anything with me wasnít right and she needed to think about her families future, and at least talk to me. She told him she didnít want to do that. He told her thatís her call. After she hung up he called me to tell me what had just happened.
This morning, after the kids went to school my wife told me she wanted to have a serious talk with me. She said she loves me and she was sorry for what happened that weekend. She said she really thought we were finished, and she was distraught about it; that she loved me but saw no future with me. When she met that Adonis guy he made her feel wanted. When he asked for her phone number she felt special. She repeated a number of times that she really had no intention of sleeping with him; all she did was think of me. That it just happened. She told me that there were no excuses she could give. She said that all she remembers was after dinner that he was holding her and telling her what a great women she was, how beautiful and intelligent she was and that any man would be lucky to be with her. The next thing she said she remembered was that her cloths were off and he was making her feel good. Since she believed we were done, she went all the way with him. She said there was a charm about him that put her at ease and she just went with what ever happened.
The reason she told me about it at all was because of the New Yearís party. We were at her companyís party celebration that night and she ran into Dr. Adonis. His wife works for the company that handles the advertising for her company. When he saw her he approached her and started talking small talk with her. After a few minutes of talk he asked her if she was still sleeping around and that he was available to continue where he left off. She told him to screw and found me, and hung to me all night. A couple of days later he called her at her work and asked if she wanted to go out with him the next day for a good time; her husband wouldnít have to know. She asked him how he got her number; he said from the computer system, she blew him off. After that call she figured she had better tell me before I found out from someone else.
All of this was making sick, and I was still pissed that she slept with him in the first place. I asked her about the pictures and diary. She said those things were disgusting and she should have destroyed them then. At that time, she said, she didnít like what he was doing with the camera or his writing in her diary; she said she felt like a slut. She said she told him to stop taking pictures and writing in her diary, but he joked about it and just continued doing what he wanted. She said she tried to stop him, but he was bigger than her and he kept doing it and teasing. She said that at one point he threated to tie her to the bed and call his buddies, he didnít. During all of this she said all she did was think of me and what she was doing to screw everything up. Then came the phone call, she said she didnít want to answer it or talk to anybody, but he gave her the phone and seemed to enjoy his power trip. After he left she wrote in her diary as a catharsis, to vent. She knew I was coming home that night, so she took a shower and douched so she could get rid of any traces of him on her. She was going to trash that stuff the next day. She had put it in a small box and then a trash bag so I wouldnít find it. With the upcoming wedding it just never got put in the trash and sat in the crawlspace. When we were moving her positions to her parentsí house to make room for my stuff it got put in her parentís basement.
Sorry for the long rant, but as Iíve said writing helps me; I guess my wife and I have that in common. I told her I knew all about her past and I love her. She cried and said if we need to go to MC she would. She said she was afraid if I found out about her Iíd leave thatís why she was hesitant to go.
Today Iíve had a lot of ups and downs. Iím glad I know the story, but the fact she did it still hurts.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, March 13th (Thursday)

She cried and said if we need to go to MC she would. She said she was afraid if I found out about her Iíd leave thatís why she was hesitant to go.

^^^stu, you are now in a better place. keep up the hard emotional work.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, March 13th (Thursday)

My wife and I just had an other little talk. She has told me more about her past. I'm having trouble processing it. I'll be back when I can write. I'll need some insight about it.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Hosea
Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, March 13th (Thursday)

Stu:

I know you've had an agonizing road so far-- but it's encouraging that your wife seems to be opening up. I hope you guys can keep talking through things honestly, and that this whole difficult period can eventually bring you closer together.


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, March 13th (Thursday)

So Stu, when you came across her diary, was it in a box inside a trash bag? <-- this is something tangible and verifiable since you found the diary and she has told you a *story* about what happened to it. According to her it was boxed and bagged....is that how you found it?

She said she told him to stop taking pictures and writing in her diary, but he joked about it and just continued doing what he wanted. She said she tried to stop him, but he was bigger than her and he kept doing it and teasing. She said that at one point he threated to tie her to the bed and call his buddies, he didnít.

Ok, plausible.


During all of this she said all she did was think of me and what she was doing to screw everything up.

NOT as plausible since, according to her, she thought that there was no future for the 2 of you.

Then came the phone call, she said she didnít want to answer it or talk to anybody, but he gave her the phone and seemed to enjoy his power trip.

This really doesn't make sense in context. By this point she was supposedly flummoxed with the guy taking pictures, writing in her diary, and threatening to let his friends have their *way* with her, but at the time that you called (which was after the aforementioned irritations)....she was in bed with him, having sex. Does this *really* hold water with you, stu?

After he left she wrote in her diary as a catharsis, to vent.

Again, if I recall correctly, you had access to that diary. Did you read a subsequent *vent* by her about the encounter?

To be honest, I think that she's been blowing smoke up your ass.

Also, be very mindful of the person who tells you of childhood issues/traumas. Don't let these disclosures make you forget about the forest because of the trees. Take everything that your WW discloses to you in with a "thank you for sharing" attitude, but try not to get sucked into it. This *might* be a tactic of deflection on her part.

Also. You are so laser-focused on the *past*.....but at some point you are going to have to point-blank ask her about her behavior during the marriage. I'm curious as to whether that has been brought up at all, by either you or her?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, March 13th (Thursday)

stu, keep in mind that this stuff is in her past, before you. or as Timon says, "you got to put your behind in your past."


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, March 13th (Thursday)

gonnabe, please remember I'm writing what I remember from an emotional state. Yes it was in a box and plastic bag. I read her diary, I was shocked and crying by what I read. I was taking everything literally as stated in the diary. I'm going to post under this a recount of our last talk. This I need help with!

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:34 PM, March 13th (Thursday)

We just had another talk. She had called my BF to tell him she took his advice and talked to me. She asked how I knew about her other life. He said he told. She said she was glad it was all out. Then my BF told her that it wasnít everything and she will need to fill in the rest. She was crying and hugging me and telling me how much she loved me. I didnít quite know what to expect. I told her I love her and Iím here for her.
She said this goes back to when she was in Puerto Rico and she was with Paco (not real name). She told me about the drugs and how he would abuse her physically and mentally. That she posed as a nude model for adult magazines and film. But this I didnít know and it was the reason she eventually called my BF who had been her boyfriend for help. She realized at a lucid moment, which she sad there werenít many, she had sunk to the lowest point in her life and was drowning in drugs and physical abuse, and needed help; she felt as if she were dying. Paco kept her supplied with drugs. His business was supplying entertainment for visiting tourists. She said one party she was at was for a fraternity from a collage in Georgia, she thinks. There was a room filled with these young guys and she was the party. She said she was their tramp, slut, etc., to be used anyway they wanted. She said that after one party she had to go to the hospital to have burns and cuts in her body taken care of. This wasnít the only party she attended. Iíve cleaned up how she described these ďfestivities.Ē I was crying with her as she told me the details. If you have ever been to sights on the internet that show women being physically abused, used in demining ways by multiple individuals, sadism/masochism slavery sights, that might be my wife. Paco had her taking care of multiple men at once. Iím sure you get the picture. My BF saved her life by his intervention. She went to a rehap hospital and received therapy and counseling for a number of years. She was seeing a doctor while I was dating her and I didnít know it. She told me that over the last 10 years she has occasionally seen a therapist so there would be no regression, I thought it was a regular doctor visit. Knowing all this has crushed me. I donít know if I can deal with all of this. I spoke with my BF about all of this info which he knew about of course. He told me he loved (donít mean romantic) my wife, and was there for her, but he couldnít be her boyfriend. He couldnít deal with her past, he had asked me if that made him a bad person. I donít know if I can, there is only so much you can handle?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, March 14th (Friday)

She said she was glad it was all out

Problem is that it isn't *all* out.
All of the *Paco* stuff nonwithstanding.....the *incident with the guy which brought you here* occurred AFTER that. Yes, what she has described to you is awful and your BF is a *good guy* for getting her though all of that.

BUT.

That doesn't excuse the fact that you WW and your BF have a *past* that they felt you didn't need to know about.
Nor does it account for the fact that your WW was with this guy long after her supposedly *got therapy, I'm good now* phase. The woman had another guy on top of her when you proposed.


And a bit of a plus for her that the diary that you found was in the situation in which she described it....boxed and bagged (just like she said).

please remember I'm writing what I remember from an emotional state

And please remember that the people reading your words are coming from a totally objective place and most likely able to *see* what you are currently unable to see.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, March 14th (Friday)

I just wan to also note that I respectfully disagree with gonnabe2016. We do NOT come to these threads objectively. Sure we look at what you say, but your words are not completely descriptive. Plus, and most importantly, we project onto your situation our own problems and disappointments - even the failures of our own Ms and Rs.

Stu, having read this whole thread again, I do not think you were betrayed, you were deceived. There is an important distinction there in terms of what needs to be done IMO.

I really like what N&D and YoP had to say. Not talking about adultry here, just stuff from prior to a relationship, or even a job. People have a right to leave a past in their past if they have worked to recover. It should not have to be something that they have to carry with them for the rest of their days. There is redemption in life.

So to me the above post is too judegmental in terms of how your wife should be dealing with a messy and very painful situation. I think the main test foe your M is now that you know in *general* what the past was like, can your wife be an open person with you.

Stu, marriage depends on guys like you. The notion of for better or worse - accepting another human soul - unconditional love in a way that God love each of us.

It is not going to be easy. You have a male ego issue from your childhood. No one would blame you if you gave up. But that would obviously not exemplify the full capacity of the human heart. If you do reject her now, what will that tell her as a human soul about whether she deserves to be loved. It is tough to have this burden Stu to be sure.

*my thoughts are premised on the assumption that she has been faithful to you since the day after the Adonis thing.*

Also want to add that my WW is a doctor, and I can say that I have met a lot of them in my time. I would put them high on the cheater list. For a lot of reasons, but not worth going into. Sad that this guy wanted take advantage of your WW. What a dirt bag. AND I do think his solicitations warrant a phone call to his wife.



I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, March 14th (Friday)

I agree with MC_Jack, you really need to let her past go!
The whole Paco thing is really in the past a time you didn't even know her. People make mistakes and she did hers. She seemed to be over it but it had to be brought up again.
The things you need to know is what went on during your relationship with her. Did she cheat? Yes. But it does sound like she is remorseful, her explanation on why she was with the other man explains a lot she thought your relationship was done.
You said she's been a good wife since you've been married can't you both just move forward from all of this?
Now that she said she will go into counseling with you, you should jump on that opportunity and do it. Although, I believe she needs to do counseling on her own about her past to deal with what she has been through. You need to do it on your own to deal with how you were betrayed while you were together.Then seek counseling together to work on your marriage.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, March 14th (Friday)

Hey man. I am sorry you going through this right now.

You and your W really need counseling with this as a couple. You both need counseling as individuals.

Your wife feels so much shame and fear. If you tell her one thing today, just tell her this. "Thank you for feeling safe enough with me to share that. I am not going anywhere and I can support you in working through this. I really think we need to see a counselor. They can help us break free our past and build a better future."

Living her life by ignoring it that way is letting the abusers win. It silences the hurt teenager inside her. That girl never got a chance to speak. What happened to her is not her fault and you know that. Her reactions to some of these things have hurt you since, but right now you have to deal with this at the beginning of it. A counselor is going to help you both process this stuff. My guess is that the check ins are more for substance abuse, not the other. MC isn't going to be very effective without her addressing this. The MC could lead there though. Any counselor is better than none. Look for practices that offer counseling for M and abuse.

It isn't going to be easy. I know this doesn't make you feel any better now, but it will later on. Her past is the direct cause of most of the pain in your life. You have to deal with that before you can go about rebuilding your M. Once she heals from that and you work on your M, your life is going to improve in ways you couldn't have imagined. Your W wants to break from her past, counseling is going to help her and by extension, you do that.

At risk of offering any more advice that is going to do more harm that good right right now I am just going to say that you both need a counselor who has experience dealing with abuse survivors and their spouses (infidelity in these situations in somewhat common). There is also a thread in the "I can relate" section that may be a bigger help to you right now for spouses of abuse survivors. I don't post there, but due to my past I read there some times. PM me if you want.

ETA: Be wary of advice offered by those that haven't lived you situation. Just like with infidelity, until you experience it first hand, you really can't understand it.

Also you may think it is good now, but when your children get older and they become involved with our people your W past is going to manifest itself in some pretty confusing and possibility damaging ways. It never goes away, but you learn how to manage it so the past stays in the past.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 11:07 AM, March 14th (Friday)]


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2559 | Registered: May 2010
IWantDoOver
Member
Member # 39440
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, March 14th (Friday)

I asked her about IC or MC an she said she was afraid where it might lead.

She told me that over the last 10 years she has occasionally seen a therapist so there would be no regression,

Look for consistency in words and actions.

Her past sounds traumatic, and some followup with a professional certainly couldn't hurt, right? You are her husband, not her IC, and now you are feeling traumatized, also.


Peace

Posts: 212 | Registered: Jun 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, March 14th (Friday)

I don't know how strong I am. Who is or was this woman I'm married to. How could she have sunk so low? I'm trying to be a supportive husband. But after what I have learned about her it's horrible; multiple numbers of guys used her and then pissed in and on her! This is my wife, the women I care about, the women I would die for, it hurts. My eyes are red from the tears.
I just keep thinking of everything she has done or had done to her. I mentally see the pictures of her actions. I have gone to some internet sights to try and figure what makes a women do the shit crap she did. I really never gave porn any thought. How could a person consciously allow others to degrade them the way she described? A horrific account she told me sickened me. Guys tied various parts of her body with rope than played tug of war; things were attached to her body that were extremely painful. I'm torn emotionally, I love my wife, my first urge was I wish I had been there to protect her! She has been a great wife for 10 years. She has not cheated, I asked her. There were times of stress that she thought about doing drugs, but she called her therapist and did not use. She did tell me that she has had a desire at times to be with other men. She did not act on those desires. She said she would through herself at me and lust after me. But the info and images I create make me think that she's a tramp, a slut! My BF and she may have been right to hide this info from me all these years. I keep thinking I married a tramp, whore, slut; she's the mother of my children. What if the find out now or in a few years when they are teenagers. How are they going to cope? What if a friend or someone from their school finds out and posts that info on the internet. Or what if the find copies of her past work and put that on the internet for the world to see? I'm not strong, I'm falling apart. This is no longer a question about infidelity. Am I even at the right site for what I'm going through now? I need to stop writing!

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 14th (Friday)

Stu, you deserved to know before you got married. In some cases the past is not just the past.

I do think you will be able to receive some wonderful help here. I also think you need some heavy duty individual counseling before you make any permanent decisions regarding your marriage.

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, March 14th (Friday)

It's horrible to see what happen before you got married and know all the action they did before. Especially since you did nothing like that.

Because of her past actions do you believe you can't be married to her anymore?

It feels like you know someone whole heartedly and then to find out that you really didn't know them at all.
She's changed, you said it yourself! She's not that slut, whore, tramp that she once was.

Do you believe in second chances?

If you run into video or pictures then you'll have to deal with it, you haven't ran into them publicly before. They might not be out anymore. Look up sites how women say they will explain their past to their children when they grow up. Most of them are porn stars and playboy models.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, March 14th (Friday)

Stuff that happens before they got married isn't cheating because it happened before they got married? What?

She had sex with a guy while they were in a relationship and didn't tell him about it. That's cheating. Come on.

Also, this isn't about punishment. Cheating is about lying, breaking promises, and about the effect it has on the betrayed partner. Past abuse is a mitigating factor, sure, but it doesn't turn cheating into not cheating.

Or am I missing something?


Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 842 | Registered: Nov 2012
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, March 14th (Friday)

ProbableIceCream Who said she didn't cheat on him?

We are all saying that what she did before she met him was in her past. No one is justifying that she didn't cheat on him, he's discovering more about her than what he thought. We are trying to help him over come her past before they even met.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, March 14th (Friday)

5454 real and yme3213, ďI love the women I married.Ē You said, ďÖyou know someone whole heartedly and then to find out that you really didn't know them at all.Ē Thatís where I am now.
I grew up in a large city, in a poor neighborhood with drug dealers and prostitutes on the four corners where the bars were located. As a child I got to see things normal people donít encounter. One of my jobs at the corner bar run by Mr. Valiente was to clean used condoms off the floor of the bathroom. I had firsthand experience with abusive relationships. I might have been 8 or 9, old enough to know some things and what was happening between men and women, too young to fully understand. But I did not like what I saw or the people involved in what was going on, they were scum. It left a very strong negative impression on me, and I literally had to claw my way up the success ladder to get out of that environment. Now I find Iím married to one of those people, ďscum.Ē Yes I am prejudice. Iím troubled when I caller that. Iím not making any rash decisions now or in the future. I need time to think all this out. I am who I am because of my past. She is who she is because of her past.
I want to be the understanding husband. I want to be her support. How many men reading this could stay married once they got this info about their wife?
The discussion about whether she cheated, was deceitful, was a manipulate isnít important. She was sleeping with scum when I proposed to her. She has apologized for that. Whatever was going through her head at the time was illogical and perverted. That all happened 10 years ago and probably with counseling I could work to except what happened, or not. How do you reconcile in your head your wife performing sex acts with large numbers of men, being someoneís sex slave, being a whore?
Iím confused, Iíve been down so long itís beginning to like up. I donít know what to do?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, March 14th (Friday)

stu, ive found out some pretty serious stuff about my wife. things she did WHILE we were married. im still with her. read my profile.

im not saying this stuff isnt serious. it is.

the bit with adonis and you on the phone is especially distressing to read.

however, in 10 years shes been a good wife. shes trying to change. she wants to be a better person. she HAS been a better person. she has changed.

its tough. i know. but the big thing is ... shes the woman you married 10 years ago. nothing changed. the main thing that changed is what she did BEFORE you met her.

id think she needs counseling and help. i hope you can help her as well. shes done a huge thing telling you. take that and use that to make your relationship stronger.


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 549 | Registered: Jan 2014
phillygirl
Member
Member # 9078
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, March 14th (Friday)

I just popped in and saw this thread, and I'm really surprised by the responses.

His wife is flying so many red flags I'm surprised she doesn't fly away.

First, she allows Stu to propose to her while in the bed with another man.

Next, when confronted about this she basically tells Stu to "get over it".

She had a relationship with his best friend before him and never told him.

She seeks therapy and doesn't mention it.

She keeps affair mementos in their home.

She has a whole life full of nude modeling and such before him that she never mentions.

This all looks like the epitome of "having a secret" life to me. How can she and Stu have true intimacy when he really doesn't know her at all? He only knows what she "allows" him to know.

Isn't that wayward thinking and behavior? Isn't that dishonest?

And I'm sorry, but someone who is able to get a marriage proposal while in bed with another, AND keep secret that she dated her husband's best friend (who he sees often) for a decade, I just have a real hard time believing has been a model wife for the whole marriage. That kind of disordered wayward thinking just doesn't "turn off" on your wedding day. I'm afraid that if Stu keeps digging he find more and more and more, not all of it even related to cheating...just more "secret life" stuff. That's why she was scared of MC, she has secrets.

I'm sorry Stu.


Me - BW
Him - WH
Divorced - 7/2013

Posts: 826 | Registered: Dec 2005
Hosea
Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, March 14th (Friday)

Stu:
"I don't know how strong I am. Who is or was this woman I'm married to. How could she have sunk so low? I'm trying to be a supportive husband. But after what I have learned about her it's horrible; multiple numbers of guys used her and then pissed in and on her! This is my wife, the women I care about, the women I would die for, it hurts. My eyes are red from the tears. "

Man, this is all so heartbreaking, Stu. For you, and for your wife. I hope you'll forgive me for going long here on a response, and making a few assumptions based on what you've shared already.

---

When you started sharing, it seemed solely a story about your own humiliation and trauma in learning how some "Mr. Adonis" degraded your wife, and mocked your name, in the very earliest hours of your engagement.

Yet, as you've told the full story, it's now clear her Adonis encounter was a part of a bigger, repeating fractal. Your wife had been used, abused, degraded and victimized by men for years before she met you.

Mr. Adonis was, it seems, was the last scumbag in a long line- and, like those before him, he degraded your wife and himself. That she was a willing participant, in light of the bigger picture pattern, seems far more tragic to me now than salacious. Because it suggests that your wife spent years believing her sole worth and purpose was to be found in her beauty and her sexual exploitation by men.

I know you're traumatized to learn all this, but man, I can't even imagine the agony your wife has felt to have carried so much secret shame for these years.

---

One part of your unfolding story really caught my eye. That fact that your wife still sleeps with a Teddy Bear.

A girl in my dorm in college did this. She was a sex-abuse victim as a child. She did it because it reminded her of a happier time in life; a time that she could never return to. A time when she felt safe, joyful, and gently and purely loved. A time before she knew what shame was, before she was so badly damaged by the cruelty of depraved men.

Stu, none of us can tell you how to feel. But man, from my faraway seat, it looks so different now...

---

CONSIDER:

If your wife hasn't been honest with you about her past...

If she doesn't want you to sexually use her in a way that reminds her of bad men and her secret, shameful history...

If she's warned you that Marriage Counseling will surely end the marriage (because it might expose her to your judgment)...

...Then I can't help but think your wife has chosen these actions because she needs a good, caring, gentle man like you so damn badly- but she does not believe she could ever deserve one now, Stu.

Your good friend, the one who helped your wife escape from part of her past hell, showed her as much:

"He told me he loved (donít mean romantic) my wife, and was there for her, but he couldnít be her boyfriend. He couldnít deal with her past, he had asked me if that made him a bad person."

This doesn't make him a bad person. It sounds like your BF may have saved her life. But I'm sure it still hurts her all the same to know that the hero who helped free her from the hell of sex and drug abuse could not bring himself to love her, too. Her sexual shames were simply too ugly for him to overlook.

---

You don't have to stay in this marriage. Nobody would blame you for thinking it too much to ask. You could walk away from her, tell her she tricked you, and that you never would've married her if you'd known her disturbing past.

I suspect, Stu, that she's been terrified of that very conversation for your entire marriage. Afraid that if you really knew the "true" her, you'd cast her aside and find a "better woman", and she'd be back, once again, in the world of Good Men she doesn't deserve and Bad Men she doesn't want.

---

BUT ALSO CONSIDER:

If your wife has been faithful to you in this marriage...

If she's been a great Mom to your children...

If you love the woman she's been to you in your marriage (even though you didn't know who she was before it) then I just gotta say...

If you have the strength, Stu, you could be a hero to her like no other man she has ever known.

---

You said before that you love her so much you would die for her. That's exactly what this revelation might soon ask of you- for you to die to self, if you're willing to. By forgiving her for keeping her pre-marital past from you, you could show your wife a portrait of what the perfect, self-sacrificing love of a strong, good-hearted man really looks like.

---

I know I'm just some random stranger among many, offering $.02 advice, based on one-sided anecdotes on an infidelity blog... I'm not telling you what to do. You still have so much you need to learn, to discuss. You need to time to process all this, and Lord, you both need counseling so badly.

So don't rush any decisions- this is obviously of the profoundest importance to you, your wife, and your child, too.

But if you do one day decide to forgive your wife the secrets of her past, and not just reconcile with her but to redeem her, do not ever think yourself weak again. Or inferior to any man on earth.

Because man, only superheroes have that kind of strength, Stu. I really mean that.

[This message edited by Hosea at 1:31 PM, March 15th (Saturday)]


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, March 14th (Friday)

Hosea makes a very valid point.

Stu, the ball really is in your court.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, March 14th (Friday)

How could a person consciously allow others to degrade them the way she described?
^^^Because they are seriously messed up. Some abuse survivors have such a hidden shame that they internalized a belief that they are worthless (deserved the abuse) and thus engage in more behavior that validates that view. You need to get up to speed on this. Granted it is horrific to be sure, but really she is the victim (of others and of herself).

I keep thinking I married a tramp, whore, slut; she's the mother of my children.
^^^ well you did, but she was messed up something bad. Now she is NOT that anymore - assuming what you have been told is true.
you know someone whole heartedly and then to find out that you really didn't know them at all
^^^Is that really true? If she is not now what she was then, the true statement is that you did not know who she was then.
How could a person consciously allow others to degrade them the way she described?
^^^Because they are seriously messed up. Some abuse survivors have such a hidden shame that they internalized a belief that they are worthless (deserved the abuse) and thus engage in more behavior that validates that view. You need to get up to speed on this. Granted it is horrific to be sure, but really she is the victim (of others and of herself).
I keep thinking I married a tramp, whore, slut; she's the mother of my children.
^^^ well you did, but she was messed up something bad. Now she is NOT that anymore.
you know someone whole heartedly and then to find out that you really didn't know them at all
^^^Is that really true? If she is not now what she was then, the true statement is that you did not know who she was then.
That kind of disordered wayward thinking just doesn't "turn off" on your wedding day.
^^^No it doesn't - but then again the wedding day was 10 years ago.

Stu, this is your life's journey. The boulder you have been asked to carry now is heavy indeed. I am praying for you and your heart. You will not be blamed for however you choose.

(probably cross posted with others)

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 3:49 PM, March 14th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, March 14th (Friday)

What Hosea said. Hell, I am inspired now. Can we bring light to tragic darkness....


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, March 14th (Friday)

Stu, I'm here, will give a better explanation of my views tonight.

The brief view is that you've been lied to your whole M. You've been tasked to carry a load that you were never given the choice to refuse. Yes, her circumstances were horrible. I'm concerned with you.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, March 14th (Friday)

Hi Stu,

We all (BS) I think come to SI and realize that our WS was not who we imagined and perceived them to be. I think it is also true that we all bring damage from our childhood years into our M. The degrees of damage varies for sure. FWW saw me as having an ideal and 'normal' childhood and parents, yet I had work yet to do.

Hosea posted:

... you could be a hero to her like no other man ...

I see this with my own FWW. Her alcoholic and wayward mother taught her to feel little value for herself and to use sex to win and hold attention from men while at the same time teaching her to blame her husband for life's problems. An uncle, a rapist, men she worked with and men she worked for, an xH, and her BIL are all amongst the men in her life who reinforced those lessons. When she took her fears and concerns about her mother and the uncle to her father he did nothing. She hinted at this past, but was afraid that if I knew her truth I would not like her, that I would leave her. She did not feel she deserved me.

So far in FWW's life, I am the first and only man to love her for who she is and for what we were together. She did not realize this until after dday. Much of our past M was dysfunctional because she assumed I was like all other men. If I hugged her it was because I wanted sex. If I got angry about anything, it was because I did not like her because she was not pretty enough, smart enough or sexual enough. In her mind she was never good enough for me.

FWW understands all of this now, and continues to make progress to be a healthier person. I will never have the idealistic M we all would like for the first 20 years, but I can support my children's mother, as she saves herself. She and I work together now to counter bad behaviors and ideas she exposed our children to during the first 20 years to try and provide the skills our children need for healthier relationships.

It is much easier to look back 4 years and see and understand this. I can now say "that was then, this is now" and not feel like I am rug sweeping or making an excuse not to D. During the first years I moved out once and pursued D when I felt FWW had slacked off on doing the work she needed to do to be a healthy M partner.

I will never have the past I wanted or thought I had, but I do have the M I wanted now. I have a W who loves me, is a good mother, and a wonderful person. Sure she was damaged, but weren't we all. She owns that and continues to work at being a healthier, more 'normal' person. Had we been much younger maybe I could have started over, but I am now glad I stayed. I take pride in many parts of my life, especially what my FWW and I have done to R our M.

Give yourself time to absorb, process, and accept all you have just found out. Really think about how your M to your W has been, and who she is now. Do not feel bad about doing whatever you need to do to take care of yourself.

ETA: The first step is to understand that nothing your W did reflects on you.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:06 PM, March 14th (Friday)]


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4133 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ming56
Member
Member # 19505
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, March 14th (Friday)

Hosea has stated the case very eloquently, and atsenaotie has as well. My wife also was abused when younger and lived a double life of great success compounded by hidden shame over what others had done to her. Shame is a powerful thing and it totally colors a persons view of who they are. My wife felt like if she did not please everybody all of the time she would be discovered to be the worthless piece of shit she felt she was. This despite the fact literally everybody who met her even before she admitted her alchoholism and near split personality (madonna/whore complex) thought she was the most together, extroverted, and compassionate person they had ever met. I thought that too, and it was not until she started dealing with the alcohol addiction and in suicidal pain engaged in an EA with an equally scarred coworker that I learned the full extent of her pain. It was hard but we made it through that hell. What got me through was first realizing I had the power to bestow upon her the gift I would want to receive if the situation was reversed- the gift of forgiveness. Secondly it was the hard earned acceptance that anything she did that I found hurtful was done out of her deep shame caused by sexual and physical abuse. The second is a very tough nut to crack, and nobody would blame you if you went the route of your bf and continued to care about her but could not continue to have an intimate relationship with her. Still if you can divorce yourself from ego, you may be able to find peace in understanding you cannnot control anything but what you do. As Hosea said you can be the superhero that she needs to believe in her and accept and forgive her past, and help her to finally truly heal. It is a tall order no doubt, but remember we all are flawed and imperfect, some have travelled a much more horrendous path than others, but all are deserving of grace. Whatever you decide to do she needs your support to whatever degree you are able to offer it.

Posts: 305 | Registered: May 2008 | From: east coast
ming56
Member
Member # 19505
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, March 14th (Friday)

[This message edited by ming56 at 9:20 PM, March 14th (Friday)]


Posts: 305 | Registered: May 2008 | From: east coast
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, March 14th (Friday)

Hey buddy just remember if there is no infidelity why you were married, well then you have do your best to forget about her past you definitely need to go to therapy and communication with your wife always. She should want to help you get past this horrible past of her. By her doing her part should be an indication that she wants this marriage last.

But people that been abused from reading in here are prone to have affairs. and she also made a comment that she had urges to have sex with other people but she didn't..? red flags watch out... Trust but verify

[This message edited by trojan007 at 11:17 PM, March 14th (Friday)]


Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, March 14th (Friday)

Stu, as you may have noticed, a lot of posters are giving you great advice. I'm curious as to how you are doing.

When I referred to IC in my earlier post, it had very little to do with you being able to let the past be the past. It was mostly referring to you being able to answer the questions in your own mind. Quite frankly you are living your own worst nightmare.

Now I find Iím married to one of those people, ďscum.Ē Yes I am prejudice. Iím troubled when I caller that.

How did you wind up with her? What was the attraction? Personally, I'm a KISA(knight in shining armor). A *fixer* in other words. My story is my user name. Five women, 5 cheaters. I was attracted to women who I could *fix*. Guess what, I was wrong. I ask those questions and gave that example because don't you find it a little *odd* that you actually picked a woman who you were so adamantly opposed to being with? Out of all the women in the world you could have picked, why her?

I think that you need to answer these questions before you make a decision. Everyone does have a past, in that, I agree with the other posters. Almost everyone deserves a second chance. Maybe you will be the one to offer it to her. Right now though, I think you need to do some inner soul searching to find yourself. IC will help you do that.

If she has really done the work on herself to heal from her abuse, she will understand. She will be supportive in YOUR healing process and whatever that entails. I have my doubts about that. There's a saying thrown around here rather frequently that I tend to believe. *Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing*. She hid a whole other life from you. Never trusted you enough to share.

As the years past, and I would ask about her past boyfriends

What does that say?

Maybe she's being honest now. IDK, her actions will speak volumes. Her words? Not so much. She has to be completely honest and open with you from here out. She needs to rebuild your trust from the foundation up.

IC for you to determine if that's what you truly want and can accept.

Brother, I'm so sorry. Sending you strength to get through the coming days.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 5:14 AM, March 15th (Saturday)

hosea put into words what i was thinking. what an incredible post. i agree so much with him!


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 549 | Registered: Jan 2014
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, March 15th (Saturday)

I am who I am because of my past. She is who she is because of her past.

Stu, be careful how you view this.

If you look at this negatively, then you are nothing but a dirty condom washer. Your wife is nothing but a whore.

Both of you have come far, but her issues lie way deeper. From what you are posting, she is trying to communicate with you---the KEY to getting past this. I can only imagine how brutal this must be for her to admit to the one she admires most.

This is huge progress in my opinion, even if you can't see this right now. The floodgates are opening. And remember, you wanted the trust. You wanted honesty. And while I am sure that there are more secrets to come out, they are now being dealt with....in a far more healthy manner than you currently believe.

My biggest issue is still with Mr. Adonis(can't we just refer to him as Mr. POS?). That story still needs to be dealt with(in therapy) about how that transpired. Ten years ago, her past was not as much a distant past as today, but we were still dealing with a "modern era" of your wife...and those behaviors were unacceptable.

On a side note---that POS was making his move again on New Years Eve? Bring that fucker down. His wife needs to know, gently, what a scumbag piece of shit he is. I'd like to get my hands around his neck, just knowing that he hasn't changed in 10 years. End of sidenote.

Stu, you will never unlearn what was in your wife's past. But if she is trying to be open and honest with you about that....something that you nor I will EVER understand the pain of....then that is showing me someone who really wants to work through this as a couple. Hosea is right, the teddy bear behavior really hits home. Being scared your whole life is no way to live. And while the last ten years may have been her best by far, you really don't know how scared she has been through this. I can only imagine.

The point is, according to your posts, is that she is now TRYING. She is communicating to the best of her flawed ways of doing so. It has only been days since you have been bombarded with this. With some time, and counseling(individual and marital), huge progress may be made. But you have to be committed. That is not meant to put pressure on you, but just to remind you that it takes two fully committed people to have a shot at success. For what it is worth, I think that the two of you will make it....if you are all in.

No decisions need to be made today. Take time to process. View your wife's actions. She has let down a HUGE emotional wall in her life. Let's hope that she can continue.

One last thing---you can and will drive yourself crazy about the "what ifs", like your children discovering information. THAT is the type of mindset that needs to be compartmentalized---because it is a hypothetical. You will deal with that as...or if...it arises. Just like you are dealing with your current discoveries.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, March 15th (Saturday)

Thank you Hosea for your words. As I read your post I started to cry, I've been doing a lot of that lately. I do still adore and love my wife, she has been the reason I found excitement to each and every day; her and my 2 children. I am an obsessive person, when I do something I put everything I have into it. I plan and learn all I can so the outcome of what I'm doing is successful. We had worked to make our marriage successful. The last ten years had been wonderful. Yes, we have had our arguments and bitterness about some things, but we always respected each other and never let anything get in the way of our relationship. But this has thrown a monkey wrench into every thing I thought and believed, and seems insurmountable. My wife just told me more tragedy in her past life. Now that I have learned even more about my wife, I'm devastated.

5454real, to answer your questions, I donít know how Iím doing, I do get a little sleep at night and my doctor gave me meds to reduce my anxiety.
My BF and I went to the same high school and he and I became friends the last year of middle school. My wife also went to the same high school, but my BF and I didnít know her. I think she had been a junior when we were freshmen. We only knew of her as another body walking through the school hallways or saw her at sports events; there was never any social contact. We did talk about how ďhotĒ she was, but we did that with just about every girl at school; we were teen boys. My BF and I graduated and went off to college and lost contact with each other for a while. I went out of state and he went to our local college. That was the same college my wife was attending, thatís where he met her and developed a relationship with her.
After I graduated school I earned a graduate degree and found a job in the area near my university. A few years after that I moved back to my original home community. After all the years away (maybe 6 years), I felt like a stranger and didnít really have any friends except my BF, but I really didnít hang with him much. After a month back home I was in the supermarket and I saw this young woman trying to get an item off the top shelf. I asked her if she needed help. Thatís how I met my wife; we talked and realized we had gone to the same high school. I found out she was single and I asked her for her phone number. She told me to call any time and I did.
Last night we went out for dinner and wound up at a motel so we could talk with out the kids around. I asked my wife again if she ever cheated since her weekend with that guy. She said she didnít feel at the time she was cheating, she believed our time together was over or ending. But after the phone call (marriage proposal) she knew she wanted to be with me. I rephrased the question to her, had she slept with any one since that weekend. She said no, BUT! She said about a week and a half after my proposal, that guy she had sex with, called her and said he wanted to apologize for his behavior and wanted to take her to dinner as his apology, she said no, then after he spoke to her more, excepted. She said he brought her flowers with a card that said he was sorry for his deplorable behavior. She said he was extremely charming, during dinner they had a number of drinks to acknowledge that he had been an ass. He drove her home and she invited him in for coffee. As they talked he got amorous and the two wound up in her bed. She said as they were beginning to get into it she realized she was a fool, that he was manipulating her into doing something she would regret for the rest of her life. She told him to leave, he did. She said nothing happened, there was no sex. Yes, they were naked together and there had been a lot of grouping and kissing, no intercourse. She said that after he left she called her physiologist and saw her the next day and they talked about why it happened. She said she realized that I was the only one she loved and said no apology could make up for what happened. She told me that she has not been with anyone, except me in all the years we have been married.
She then said she needed to tell me something that was extremely dificult about herself. She said she had had three children that she gave up for adoption. She had a son who she believes might have been my BFís, she wasnít sure. During the time she was with my BF she was also involved with her old boyfriend who called her occasionally. She never told my BF she had been pregnant, she didnít know if it was his child. She delivered it some months after they split up. He doesnít know and would prefer it remain that way. I said more deception, Itís not right. She repeated, it might not have been his. I said, YOU need to tell him.
She continued telling me that during the time with Paco she had twins, a boy and girl. It was after that pregnancy that she called my BF for help. She said she has no idea who the father was; that she had sex with so many strangers there was no way to know. She said it could have been Pacoís as well. She said she had been whore, something for guys to abuse. Paco sold the children to a couple who wanted kids. She said she doesnít know anything more about the children. We both were crying through all of this. I felt like I was dying a slow death. How much more was there to my wife. I kept thinking how do I continue with her. So to answer the question, how am I? I donít know!


Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, March 15th (Saturday)

Stu, I find a lot of what you've related here very disturbing.

First, if this is all true, you have been deceived by the people around on you a level that is truly extraordinary. We're talking everything from your wife living with your best friend, to multiple secret children, to your wife hooked on heavy drugs, in rehab "for years" and involved in the sex trade. If this is the case, you need to look seriously at how this was possible from your end. I'm not blaming you, but you've been married to the woman for 10 years and nothing signaled to you that something was off? When she couldn't account for years of her life in casual conversation? None of her friends and family ever let anything slip in a decade of the two of you together that would have tipped you off that she hadn't been forthcoming about some aspects of her past? No scars, stretch marks, anything on her body that you asked about? No contacts from people in her past? No references that she made in casual conversation that would have told you she had experience in things like drugs, adoption, prostitution, porn, rehab, the sex trade? If that is the case, you haven't just been deceived. You've been systematically conned.

Second, I don't see your timeline adding up at all. I tell you this because, again, if you think this is true, you are still not getting the truth. If she was ahead of you in school, yet dropped out of college to go live with "Paco" in PR, how is it possible that she dated and lived with your BF for any significant amount of time before she left? If you went on to college and grad school, yet moved back home after about 6 years, how could she have had time to both go to PR, have several secret children (while still working for Paco), get out and go through extensive rehab all while going back to college as an honors student?

You know, SI is a sacred place to a lot of us. It gets us through some of the darkest points in our lives. Being able to come to this forum openly and honestly is extremely important. People are taking time out of their lives to try to act as a support to one another, be genuine, offer guidance. I've only been on this site for a year, but I have yet to see someone experience the kinds of systematic revelations that you have. You say you have young children. In that case, I don't care how wonderful a mother she has seemed over the years, your wife is a recovering drug addict with years of sexual abuse. She shouldn't be going into therapy occasionally for tune ups. She should be going weekly. And you should, too. If for nothing else but that this is a site is a poor substitute for the level of professional help it sounds like you and your family need.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

PhantomLimb, I never asked questions, I had no reason to. The only friends we had were the ones we made since we were together or the parents of our kidís friends. Her parents were elderly and we saw them occasionally, maybe at holiday times and she had no other relatives and she was an only child. She would speak with her mom on the phone sometimes, but our contact with them was minimal. I didnít have much contact with my family either. Our family was basically just us.
I showed her your post and she became quite angry that I was sharing her private history with strangers. She said she went to a shelter in NYC after dropping out freshman year and had the baby there, then left for PR. It was before dropping out that she had been with my BF. She met Paco soon after arriving in PR at an interview. About a year or so after the first birth she had the other children and from the hospital she called my BF. They flew back and she went into rehab. After being discharged she went back to school and was treated while going to school.
I have been dealing with this stress for 3 months. It has only been a few days that I have been here. I was lucky to find all of you. The pouring out of emotions has helped me to keep my sanity; to put things in perspective. As of next Thursday Iím scheduled to see someone, Iím going alone. I wouldnít have scheduled an appointment if it werenít for the push from here.


Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
absolut
Member
Member # 37933
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

Yeah this makes no sense.

First off twins are usually delivered c section you would have seen a scar. But let's just say they weren't. Her body would have visible signs of pregnancy after twins and a onesie. But let's just say not.

Her gyno at her first visit for your first baby would have known she had children before and asked about it and noted it on her chart. So I assume you never went with your wife to her prenatal check ups.

This whole time line, also, does not add up in a way that screams. She carried two full term pregnancies and spent years in rehab but went right back to college like it's all good?

Also? Where do you get this twisted stuff from? A fraternity playing tug of war with her body? I notice how you mention internet sites with this kind of stuff...is that what sparked your imagination? Because if real men really did that, she'd be dead. Also, if she had to be treated at an ER for cuts or burns etc she would still have scars.

I've stated in previous posts I worked in adult entertainment for a full three years. I've met some very strange and very bad people. I dated the manager of a well known nightclub when I was barely old enough to drink.

And I don't believe this story, it's tawdry, salacious, and just plain gross, but it makes no sense. You just found out your own wife gave birth to twins by your own best friend, but they were sold by Paco? Really? In every post you seem intent on piling on.

I know some people will blast me for not offering hugs and support but *news flash* not everything you read on the internet is true.


Posts: 421 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

Iím going alone

Stu, this is critical. You HAVE to work on you first. Right now the marriage has to take a back seat. If she doesn't understand, she is NOT remorseful. She has no concept of the level of damage she has done.

Fix you first brother.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

Catching up here but I have to agree with PhantomLimb and Absolut.

I don't have any advice for you as this is beyond what I could give advice for. Best of luck to you Stu


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2189 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

As I said Iíve scheduled an appointment for myself for next Thursday, Iím going alone. I will tell every detail to the psychologist Iím seeing, and then go from there. I need to take care of me if Iím going to be able to take care of anyone else.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

She said she went to a shelter in NYC after dropping out freshman year and had the baby there, then left for PR. It was before dropping out that she had been with my BF.

My wife also went to the same high school, but my BF and I didnít know her. I think she had been a junior when we were freshmen.

Okay, so she lived with your BF when you were both still in high school, huh? I mean, this is the kind of stuff that has us calling bullshit, Stu.

As I said Iíve scheduled an appointment for myself for next Thursday, Iím going alone. I will tell every detail to the psychologist Iím seeing, and then go from there. I need to take care of me if Iím going to be able to take care of anyone else.

This is the best idea you've come up with yet.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 2:15 PM, March 15th (Saturday)]


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

Stu, another mantra here is take what you need, leave the rest. I'm sorry that your timeline and descriptions don't meet the standards of some of the others. It's not your job to convince them.

I believe you stated you were a virgin when you hooked up with your wife. I don't blame you for not recognizing the signs of childbirth. Burns and scars easily have other explanations. The degradation of women you does exist and truthfully, your WW is lucky to have survived. It's not just fantasy material on the net.

Your timeline does need some clearing up, but hell, your just finding out yourself. I would fully expect there to be changes. If your WW dropped out as a freshman in college and had a jr in HS living w/her, it wouldn't surprise me at all. My own stepson moved in with a college freshman at the same age.

One thing that does concern me though is her admission of

BUT! She said about a week and a half after my proposal, that guy she had sex with, called her and said he wanted to apologize for his behavior and wanted to take her to dinner as his apology, she said no, then after he spoke to her more, excepted. She said he brought her flowers with a card that said he was sorry for his deplorable behavior. She said he was extremely charming, during dinner they had a number of drinks to acknowledge that he had been an ass. He drove her home and she invited him in for coffee. As they talked he got amorous and the two wound up in her bed. She said as they were beginning to get into it she realized she was a fool, that he was manipulating her into doing something she would regret for the rest of her life. She told him to leave, he did. She said nothing happened, there was no sex. Yes, they were naked together and there had been a lot of grouping and kissing, no intercourse.

Really? The guy who wouldn't stop? Who *got off* on the power trip of making her talk to you while they were doing whatever, stopped at groping and fondling when she said no? BS flag on this one.

However, I'm going back to where I was. Really, for right now, none of this matters. You've heard enough for 5 lifetimes. You need some space, some time to process what you have learned so far and to determine a plan of action from here.

Keep posting.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Hosea
Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

Stu:

I'm sorry for another epic post, man. Your specific situation really breaks my heart. The contrast of your innocent past and your wife's sordid former life, it frankly seems a bit like my namesake, The Book of Hosea itself (with minor variations). I think that's why I'm especially caught up by it, and feel grieved for you both.

I know a lot of these replies are litigating details, questioning seemingly contradictory narratives, etc. I don't need to add to that. I trust your telling the truth, as best you understand it. (If not, well, we've been punk'd something epic!)

I just wanted to offer, in the middle of all this, a more practical, 20,000 foot view. It's still $.02 advice, but I hope it might have some actionable advice (and not be a waste of your time!)

---

FIRST AND FOREMOST: Find the RIGHT Therapist.

You've made an appointment. I'm glad for that. You NEED someone highly recommended. Do not settle for a clock-watcher, a pill-pusher, a New Age Quack, the cheapest guy on Yelp, or any other form of human mediocrity.

NOTE: As a practical point, you're going to want a Male Therapist.

I'm not sexist. Frankly, I think Female Therapists often have the edge on empathy and listening skills. But much of your psychic trauma is of a sexual nature (a sense of Male Ego violation, Inadequacy, Betrayal, etc.) Talking about these issues with a Female Therapist, even a great one, could further complicate the already labyrinthine emotional dynamics. AND YOU DO NOT NEED THIS SITUATION TO GET ANY MORE EMOTIONALLY COMPLICATED THAN IT ALREADY IS, STU!

Treat the selection of your therapist every bit as seriously as you'd treat the choice of your Brain Surgeon if you had a Stage 3 tumor. You wouldn't want some D-grade amateur with a degree from Fun Ed Medical College & Beauty School cutting into your skull. And you don't want the IC equivalent trying to help you through this crisis, either.

---

SIGNS OF A GOOD THERAPIST:

ē He will tell you how he works, and why he works that way
ē Will seek to understand what your therapy needs and goals are, and will you help you articulate those you might sense but not yet fully be able to explain
ē He will have an authentic, non-judgmental disposition
ē He will have prior experience dealing both with marriage crises and sexual abuse challenges (Whether or not you reconcile with your wife, she is the mother of your children and a sexual abuse victim. You NEED a Therapist who can help sensitize you to your wife's very deep-rooted pains and dysfunctions)
ē He will help create a sense of safety in the chaotic present, and a sense of hopefulness about the future resolution of your current crisis
ē He will speak honestly, and sometimes ask difficult questions, but will not put you on the defense or criticize your beliefs of feelings
ē He will be "present" during the session (even if taking notes), and will, over subsequent sessions, build on the disclosures and revelations of past sessions without asking you to remind him of important details already covered.

---

SIGNS OF A BAD THERAPIST:

ē He does not have (or can not explain) what his therapeutic philosophy is. (NOTE: "I'm just here to listen, bro." is not a philosophy of healing. That's what drinking buddies are for.)
ē He talks too much about his own life / problems / crap (Seriously, some of them do. If so, bill them for YOUR time.)
ē He never talks. (Telltale verbal clues: "Uh-huh. Yep. Okay. Go on. Mmmmm. Interesting.")
ē He is judgmental of behavior, whether yours or others. (This does happen, frequently with "old school" therapist. You do NOT want this. If he says, "Boy, your wife is what we used to call a (insert derogatory term here)", then RUN.
ē He's late for appointments
ē He is too quick to reach conclusions. (You can get THAT kind of armchair therapy here, for free, and already have.)
ē He does not make you feel comfortable.

---

If you don't feel, after a session or two, like this person is fully present in your very unique crisis, like they are truly listening, genuinely concerned, and giving you cause for hope of a brighter future, then find someone else! Bad Therapy is worse than no therapy!

The selection of a good therapist is about YOU and YOU ALONE, Stu. It may benefit your wife and your children, but you need it, first and foremost, to aid in your own healing and stabilization.

---

SECOND: Don't make any rash choices right now!

I know, in reading all the various contradictory perspectives here, you're probably even more overwhelmed and confused. You came here in agony- and, as new facts surfaced about your wife's past (both before the marriage and during the engagement), your pain and trauma only grew more agonizing. Contradictory advice ("DUMP HER!", "FORGIVE HER!", "YOU'RE LYING!", "SHE'S LYING!") may only compound your confusion.

Though your situation is unique, most Betrayeds know, perhaps better than you might think, just how unmoored your mind is in this current time. We can all remember that horrorable dawning shock-- the DAY WE LEARNED OUR MARRIAGE AND SPOUSE WAS NOT WHAT WE THOUGHT THEY WERE.

You are living in a Waking Nightmare right now, Stu. Like "Back to the Future 2". Your past was altered by the unseens actions of others, and your formerly beautiful, predictable world is being twisted and darkened right before your eyes. And it won't stop changing before you, even though you just want REALITY back so you can make a reasonable choice and know things aren't going to change yet AGAIN.

It's truly a kind of madness, Stu, and it's felt most acutely as you look at your wife.

ē One minute, she's the beautiful girl you (re)met in a supermarket, reaching for something on a high shelf.

ē The next, she's being diddled by Mr. Adonis after accepting your marriage proposal.

ē The next, she's that "hot", shapely girl who caught your teenage eye in the hallway.

ē The next, she's in some porn film and photoshoot.

ē The next, she's your blushing bride, exchanging vows and rings with you.

ē The next, she's a drug addict being sexual exploited by Paco the Drug Dealer.

ē The next, she's giving birth to your first sweet child, and giving you the gift of fatherly pride.

ē The next, she's giving birth to some stranger's kid, and giving it up for adoption.

ē The next, she's a little girl in a room , sleeping peacefully with her teddy bear.

ē The next, she's a sex-abuse survivor, clinging to that same bear and wishing so badly she just go back in time herself, before her own reality grew so dark with abuse, so heavy with shame, and so fragile with secrets.

And on and on and on.

WARNING: THIS MAY CONTINUE FOR LONGER THAN YOU THINK.

This is WHY Therapy is so important RIGHT NOW. Your own stabilization is the first step towards healing. But it takes time, work, and an ocean of tears. So avoid the temptation, in the panic of a moment, to divorce and run. Don't rush to Reconcile, in a desperate gambit to "get things back to the way they were". Don't let a moment of emasculated humiliation goad you to humiliate your wife for her long ago crimes.

Just try not to do ANYTHING that will compound your pain, or anyone else's, or that you might later regret.

---

LASTLY: Be the Best Father You Can Be

Stu, however the tragic situation with your marriage is resolved, you are the father to two children you clearly love very much. They are complete innocents in this. Even if your whole world quakes and falls apart before your eyes, your children's love is perfect and unconditional. They have no dark secrets that could pain you to learn. They will not change into something horrible as you stare at them.

They are, in this crisis, a great gift to you. A kind of talisman against the madness around you. I know there will be moments where your own pain is so great and your mind so tortured that being around them might be impossible. But I really encourage you to let that pure love that they feel for you, and you for them, be a kind of sanctuary for you.

Protect them, first and foremost, from this crisis with your wife. Some parents, while in crisis, say harsh things of their spouse to their children. You don't seem like the sort who would, but beyond that, really be mindful not to fight with her around them.

If you can, make extra time for them. Surprise them with an ice cream outing, or a fun movie, or whatever sort of thing that will delight them. If they're old enough, take on little new family projects; a giant jigsaw puzzle, model rockets, something that can be experienced together. And, yes, include your wife.

Remind yourself of the value of your family, and the preciousness of this time you have with them. Remind yourself, too, of your wife's goodness as a mother. Of the joy she finds in their innocence, and in the clean slate they are, and represent for her.

I don't mean, in suggesting all this, to tell you "you better reconcile!" I guess, having seen the blessings of reconciliation in my own marriage, I'm probably rooting for it (unless your wife has been unfaithful in your marriage beyond what you've yet learned)... But it's not my place, or any of ours, to tell you what to do with your marriage.

I just want, in the middle of this nightmare, for you to have some joy and safety. To feel the comfort that sometimes only the laughter and wonder of your children can provide. To have chance to see the world through innocent eyes, and to feel more of the manly pride that comes from being a great father.

No matter what happens in the future, you will not regret doing this now.

[This message edited by Hosea at 5:26 PM, March 15th (Saturday)]


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

I appreciate all that everyone has said. It has been tremendous help to me emotionally.
Unfortunately some of my friends here do misstate the facts that I have written, but do get their point across. I do not wish to get into a debate. Someone had said that we all bring our baggage here. My baggage is how do I save my marriage? I just want this conflict with my life and wife over.
This quote is not factually correct, ďOkay, so she lived with your BF when you were both still in high school, huh?Ē We all went to the same high school but my BF and I didnít know her at that time. She was just another student we would see in the all or other places in the school. My BF met her in college his freshmen year, this was after she had a relationship with 2 other men. Their relationship lasted until spring break. That is when she left for NYC according to her.
I have not dissected my wifeís comments; Iím taking them as fact. I have been posting what info I have been told and I will have the psychologist Iím seeing sort everything out for me. All of you have been loud and clear that I need to take care of me. I have repeated this before, I got the message.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

One example as to why making sense of your timeline matters for getting the help you're looking for: how do you know that child she had after she dropped out freshman year isn't your BF's?

***

I'm going to edit here to just add that you are correct that you are under no obligation to debate me or others. As I am under no obligation to engage your story further if I feel what you are describing and the help you are looking for is beyond what my limited experience as a BS can provide. For that reason, it's best that I step aside.


So best of luck to you, Stu.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 6:35 PM, March 15th (Saturday)]


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

I don't, it could have been! But as I have been learning here, anything is possible and probable. As I said earlier, I have been down so long it is beginning to look like up. There have been so many twists and turns in my relations recently I just need to stop.
One other thing, those of you who have taken the time to address my problem, have given up your time that could have been spent with loved ones, or in other pleasurable pursuits, THANK YOU. I hope that after I resolve my situation I am able to give back to individuals in need, here, as a thank you to you all. I donít usually say this, but it is with tears of potential happiness, God Bless you all.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
absolut
Member
Member # 37933
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

But as I have been learning here, anything is possible and probable

Actually, that's completely incorrect, only possible things are possible. By definition.

I hope all the cyber attention you've received does something to help with whatever problems you are experiencing. Best wishes.


Posts: 421 | Registered: Dec 2012
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, March 15th (Saturday)

@PL:
how do you know that child she had after she dropped out freshman year isn't your BF's?

Iirc, he doesn't. I think the explanation was that wife said that it COULD have been BF's child.....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, March 16th (Sunday)

Over the last few days I have begun to rethink everything that has gone on since my wife first told me about her encounter. I have tried to convey to you what she has told me, and maybe more than I should have in an openly public arena. I have listened to her and empathized with her and said Iím here for her. However, with all the posts inferring that there might be more to her than I know; it has triggered ideas I never thought about. All of you come with insight from your experiences. This is all new to me; I have nothing to compare it to. Iíve begun to question in my mind the history she has told me about herself. Iím now at a point that Iím ready NOT to take them as gospel. Individuals here have asked very direct questions which I thought were positive and some antagonistic at times. But, the direct input forced me to start to raise my own questions about my relations with the people in my life. My wife has blemishes on her skin, I never asked about the blemishes on her back and belly, it just wasnít important, they were there. Maybe I should have. My BF had info about my wife, he made a decision to say nothing, he had his reasons at the time; but in hind sight I wish he had. I believe the best direction for me is the psychologist. Together I will find the truth about me and hopefully about my wife.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, March 16th (Sunday)

I will find the truth about me

^^^^This first brother.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:38 AM, March 17th (Monday)

Stu,

As blurry as everything is right now, you need to remind yourself repeatedly that you are going to get through this. I'm sure that it may not seem this way, but believe us when we say that you will.

No, everything won't return to "normal". Your life is forever changed, and some of it for the worse. But you don't really know how bright the future can be. But taking the steps towards counseling is a good start. Urging your wife to regularly receive counseling would also be a smart move. Continuing to communicate with your wife is also paramount for multiple reasons---she needs to know that you want to support her(if you are both committed to each other), and you need to discover the entire truth, by which I mean your life SINCE you met your wife. Her past is brutal, no doubt about that, but it is what has transpired since you were dating...when you believed that you were in an exclusive relationship.

There is no way to digest everything at once. It is hard not to feel like you are drowning. But it does get better---it really does. You just need to accept that.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, March 17th (Monday)

I believe the best direction for me is the psychologist.

Stu this is going to be he beginning of this getting better for you. I can't emphasize enough that this journey isn't going to be easy, but it is going to make your life easier in the long run.

FWIW- I think your W has to get some therapy too, but you can't force her to do that.

Pray for strength to change the things that you can, peace for the things you can't and the wisdom to know the difference.

Let the last part sink it. Your Ws past is outside of your control and at this point it is outside of her control too. However you still have a choice and staying M'd is a choice too.

She got past her worse fears. You learned about her past and you are still here.

FWIW- The second date with scumbag, that is a clear cut case of cheating. Whether it went all the way or not doesn't matter. (If I had to guess you will find out more about that time later on).

Your Ws creditability needs to be factor here. While she had her reasons, withholding this much from you is healthy wither. I would bet if she found out you had lied to her she would be upset.

Honesty goes both ways. Put this on the back burner until you start therapy and try to endure or escape as much as you can until then.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2559 | Registered: May 2010
wonderpets
Member
Member # 35901
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, March 17th (Monday)

I would be very upset if my best friend didn't tell me about issues like that about someone I was going to date, much less their previous relationship.

Posts: 204 | Registered: Jun 2012
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, March 17th (Monday)

After re-reading 5454realís post from Saturday relating to what my wife had told me -
ďBUT! She said about a week and a half after my proposal, that guy she had sex with, called her and said he wanted to apologize for his behavior and wanted to take her to dinner as his apology, she said no, then after he spoke to her more, excepted. She said he brought her flowers with a card that said he was sorry for his deplorable behavior. She said he was extremely charming, during dinner they had a number of drinks to acknowledge that he had been an ass. He drove her home and she invited him in for coffee. As they talked he got amorous and the two wound up in her bed. She said as they were beginning to get into it she realized she was a fool, that he was manipulating her into doing something she would regret for the rest of her life. She told him to leave, he did. She said nothing happened, there was no sex. Yes, they were naked together and there had been a lot of grouping and kissing, no intercourse.Ē
5454realís thought, ďReally? The guy who wouldn't stop? Who *got off* on the power trip of making her talk to you while they were doing whatever, stopped at groping and fondling when she said no? BS flag on this one.Ē, has me asking myself, was that what really went on between my wife and that guy. They were in bed groping and he just stopped because she asked him too?
All the comments about her time line, it seemed OK to me, or had I just been deluding myself because I wanted to believe what she told me. Iíve re-read the inferences about that Ďtime lineí, and I believe you all are looking at it objectively; with what she has just told me, the truth is lost. Right now Iím not sure of anything.
numb&dumb, I showed my wife your post as well as 5454realís, and asked her if there was any validity to what has been hinted about her 2nd dealings with that guy having gone all the way. She became quite emotional and said, YES. She said that she met him a few more times, up to the time he got married. When he returned from his honey moon they got together again. She said she didnít love him, but there was something about his dominant behavior she liked. I asked how many times, she said at least 1 or 2 times a week until he returned to school, except for when he got married. I believe I mentioned that he had gotten married about a month after I proposed. We got engaged in May and he left for school I think the end of August; thatís 4 months, At that point I yelled at her and said is this the truth, youíve been feeding me lies. What about Puerto Rico? She didnít say anything, but her face had a strange look. Nothing more was said and I stormed out of my house. I didnít want to hear any more. What else am I going to find out? I need to speak with the psychologist this Thursday.
Wonderpets, throughout all of the discussions others have raised questions about my BF. I have known him since high school, but there have been large time periods that we were not in touch with each other; like the time he dated the women who would become my wife. I just learned about their relationship a short time ago. I may have been seeing (remembering) him as the close friend I had in high school. When we reconnected he might not have been THAT PERSON I remembered. Currently Iím doubting just about everything I thought I knew about the people around me.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, March 17th (Monday)

Know that you're not alone, I just sent you a PM. She's storing way to many secrets and they are all going to hurt you inside.
Do you want to continue asking more questions, when you find out either she's going to lie or not?
You're not going to trust her anymore and they believe lying will just protect you, when we know it's not going too!
So, what now?


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, March 17th (Monday)

yme, I will want to know as much as possible. With the full truth I will be able to make logical decisions, not impulsive ones. Who knows what's going to happen; I have lot's of choices ahead of me. Thanks

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Hosea
Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, March 17th (Monday)

Stu:

Currently Iím doubting just about everything I thought I knew about the people around me.

As well you should, man.

You seem like a truly decent-hearted, worthy husband and father. You've obviously been a Naive Husband, wearing rose colored glasses for your entire marriage. Now you're taking them off. You're seeing the ugly world for what it is, and shocked and horrified. Be prepared for the world, and the people you love, to grow uglier still as your eyes adjust.

Most of what you know about love has been taught to you by a broken, haunted, self-destructive woman. If she has discounted your worth with her lying and wayward behavior, it's not because you deserved it. If you learned about friendship from your best friend, well, he's failed you nearly as much as she has.

It's time, if you haven't already, to let THEIR DISCOUNTING OF YOUR WORTH (made obvious through all the secrets they've kept and lies they told) lead to YOUR DISCOUNTING OF THEIR WORTH.

BECAUSE:

1) Worthy Wives don't betray their fiances, and keep deeply sordid personal histories a secret from their Naive Husbands. They just don't.

2) Best Friends don't quietly conspire with worthy wives (and former sex partners) to keep Naive Husbands in the dark about facts he deserves to know. They just don't.

---

You have a chorus of advisors and brethren in pain here. We have contradictory perspectives and prescriptive suggestions based on incomplete facts and our own biases. Use what you can, lose what you can't.

BUT WE ALL AGREE ON TWO THINGS:

1) YOUR THERAPY IS CRITICAL. It sounds like you have a good therapist. Has it been helpful so far? Do you feel like he's proving both empathetic and insightful? Is he giving you hope for a brighter future? How is that going for you, Stu?

2) YOU DESERVE SO MUCH BETTER. You're a better man than you believe, and certainly far better than your wife or BF believe. We all see that, it's so damn obvious from where we all sit. If you find yourself ever doubting it, DON'T.

Because there are women- LOTS OF GREAT, WORTHY WOMEN, who would kill for what your wife has taken for granted. Believe it!

And there are lots of friends- LOTS OF AWESOME, WORTHY FRIENDS, who would never think of keeping you in the dark about things so important to your future soundness of marriage and mind. Believe it!

If you haven't already done so, open up your Emotional Balance Sheet. It's time to depreciate some valued assets-- MASSIVELY... And, while you're at it, it's time to appreciate your most valuable one-- yourself. MASSIVELY.

You deserve far better than you've been given. We all believe it. We want you to believe it, and to have it.


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, March 17th (Monday)

Your words help, thank you.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, March 17th (Monday)

Stu, over and over, I've been asking that you shift focus and worry only about yourself. As your situation evolved, I became very concerned for you. I'm glad you meet with counseling Thursday and would suggest you cut and paste your posts so he/she can see the evolution also. The level of duplicity your WW displays is staggering. The shit sandwich she is force feeding you grows larger by the minute and you need to remove yourself as best you can while still living with her and protect your child. Try this:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

To me, my concerns were validated when you revealed the presence of the journal and pictures. Can't think of a single instance where it is ever recommended to keep mementos from an abusive past.

Her whole story just keeps falling apart doesn't it?

She said that she met him a few more times, up to the time he got married. When he returned from his honey moon they got together again. She said she didnít love him, but there was something about his dominant behavior she liked. I asked how many times, she said at least 1 or 2 times a week until he returned to school, except for when he got married. I believe I mentioned that he had gotten married about a month after I proposed. We got engaged in May and he left for school I think the end of August; thatís 4 months,

Again, why did it stop there? There really hasn't been further contact? Over 10 years? Again, I wave the Bull Excrement flag.

She went to a rehab hospital and received therapy and counseling for a number of years. She was seeing a doctor while I was dating her and I didnít know it. She told me that over the last 10 years she has occasionally seen a therapist so there would be no regression, I thought it was a regular doctor visit.

For what specifically, who was the doctor? What was his specialty? Given her behaviors, I'm beginning to doubt the treatments were for what she is claiming. Even if the were,

there would be no regression

it doesn't seem to have worked.

What about Puerto Rico? She didnít say anything, but her face had a strange look. Nothing more was said

This is very concerning. Please be extra careful when dealing with her. There are some certain personality types who have adverse reactions to having the world they have created questioned.


As for your *friend*.

I may have been seeing (remembering) him as the close friend I had in high school. When we reconnected he might not have been THAT PERSON I remembered

If you stick your hand on a red hot burner, do you warn your friend or help him touch it too?

he couldnít be her boyfriend. He couldnít deal with her past, he had asked me if that made him a bad person

Not for not being able to deal with her past, but for not warning you? Absolutely He's not your friend. Maybe hers, but never yours.

Sorry brother. Implement the 180, work on you and get to the psychologist

Srength

[This message edited by 5454real at 3:05 PM, March 17th (Monday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, March 17th (Monday)

As I said, I want to know the facts. Even though I have been here only a few days, it feels like years. The back and forth communication has allowed me to vent my anger. I realize what I came here for has under gone a metamorphosis, and I have broader issues to contend with. But I feel that I can handle whatever is thrown at me; as some movie character said, 'BRING IT ON." It may be adrenalin, but after my last contact with my wife I'm feeling as if I'm in control. My children are safe and I'm OK. Right now I think I want every detail so I can crush it and move on. I owe this felling to every one of you. I hope this feeling of empowerment continues.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, March 17th (Monday)

Stay strong my friend! Get all the information you need so you can move forward.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, March 17th (Monday)

Again, why did it stop there? There really hasn't been further contact? Over 10 years? Again, I wave the Bull Excrement flag.

Stu - I am sorry you have learned more lies. Read what 5454 asked as what you are still being told does not make sense now.

In my case, my WW cheated on me from day one when we dated and into our earlier marriage. On DDay the confession I got was it was a "long time ago". After digging for the truth, it turns out it went on for years and years until OM1 finally moved 2 years prior to DDay. The EA portion with OM1 continued though after he moved until DDay. After OM1 moved though, an OM2 entered the picture.

My point of telling you my story is that it is rare that a cheater just goes dry on their own. Especially when cheating started at the very beginning. If your WW was willing to cheat early before you were married and right after you were married why would she suddenly stop? If it wasn't the guy you know now, it very likely could be someone else that came into the picture.

I am sorry you are still unraveling your truth, I had thought many pages ago that you were there but with your new information to the level of cheating your WW committed I am concerned that you are not close to any form of complete truth from her. Working on you is all that you can do at this point given your WW's unwillingness to give you the truth.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, March 17th (Monday)

I had thought many pages ago that you were there
^^^me too. I also thought you were there and my thoughts were based on the absence of cheating after the engagement. Well - I don't know what to say now, except that I am very sorry for you.

At this point getting to the whole truth - get a polygraph if necessary - is the prime directive. Until you get to the truth you have nothing.

Jack


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, March 17th (Monday)

I have returned home for now. I told my wife that for the emotional health of our children I would like us to be civil to each other and coexist without animosity. I also told her I want the truth regarding things she has told me, no more lies. We will live in the same house and carry on our daily activities as much as normal; driving our children here and there. I have work which will keep me away for a good portion of the day. Sleeping arrangements havenít been worked out yet. For tonight Iím going to fall asleep in the TV room, no difference then before.
Please, if you have any suggestions, give them, I will not be sleeping with my wife. We do have an extra bedroom I might use. But Iím worried about my children. What might I be saying to them? Surprisingly I feel calm and in control at the moment, tonight the anger and animosity seems gone,I'm ok. I don't know about tomorrow?


Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
quedagh
Member
Member # 24195
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)

Stu,

Sorry. The pain is horrific. You will get through this.

You have gotten excellent advice. Focus on you. Therapy, exercise, make sure you eat and stay hydrated.

I am afraid that ReunitePangea is probably right:

"My point of telling you my story is that it is rare that a cheater just goes dry on their own. Especially when cheating started at the very beginning. If your WW was willing to cheat early before you were married and right after you were married why would she suddenly stop? If it wasn't the guy you know now, it very likely could be someone else that came into the picture."

And if it is the truth you seek, this will probably need explored.

Stay strong brother. You are handling it well even if it feels that you are not.

[This message edited by quedagh at 8:20 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)]


Divorced and safer, mostly.


Posts: 803 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Recovery Land
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)

Stu, sleep in the other room if it is more comfortable. You need your sleep. Just use snoring as an excuse.

other suggestion, tell OMs wife yesterday - since the guy just propositioned your WW - and obviously has not changed. I told the other BW about 8 months after dday when OM broke NC yet again, so there was obviously no sleeping dog to let lie.

how far do you now think that this rabbit hole will go?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)

Wow.

I have just read this entire thread. My head is spinning, stu, so I can only imagine how you must feel.

I think you need to value yourself more. You are a good man, a good husband, a good father, and a good friend. You have been lied to..for years..by your wife and your best friend. And you continue to say he is your best friend. A friend would never have allowed you to blindly get involved, marry, have children with, someone as disturbed as your WW is, without telling you. A friend tells you the truth, no matter how much it may hurt. With a friend like that..who needs enemies?


Betrayal isn't always about fucking someone else. It's lying. And boy has she been lying to you.

I don't believe for a second that she has been a great wife and mother for the last 10 years. If everything she has told you is true, a tiger doesn't change it's stripes overnight. She is still wayward. Her lying is proof of that. And that she went from porn star to Mrs. Brady as soon as you put a ring on her finger? I find that hard to believe. She has continued to lie about so much...how can you be so sure she hasn't cheated since you married her? The truth is, you can't.

I would usually suggest a polygraph, but I think there is so much bullshit in what she has lied to you about that the polygraph would be useless.

Im glad you are going to IC. I hope it helps you.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)

I have noticed a change in my wifeís behavior; she seems less defensive and openly wants to talk about the issues. I told her Iím not interested if there will be more lies and deceit and we can talk later today. I also told her that I have options and I would be discussing them with the psychologist. This change in her seems to coincide with my telling her about my IC.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)

Have you seen an attorney? I know you don't intend to file, but it might be a good idea to find out what your rights are.


Also, I think I read that your BF is married? If so, then I hope someone has seen fit to tell his wife about his past with your wife. His wife deserves to know the truth too.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)

Stu,

I gave you a reference to something called the 180. Implement it. It's specifically designed to give you some breathing room. Ditto to what Confused said. Lawyer to at least know your options.

Also, as well as the W of your *BF*, *Adonis's* BW deserves to know.

If you so choose, give your WW(Confirmed) the task of writing out a timeline. Who, what where and when. Make sure she knows that this is a one shot deal.

Sending strength brother


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)

I told her Iím not interested if there will be more lies and deceit and we can talk later today.

Good reply!

Stu - I think do to some of the twists and turns in your story you have not received some of the typical initial advice that is given to a new BS just finding out.

If your WW wants to work with you on R, she can start demonstrating this to you now. She can hand over her cell phone so you have access to it, she can give you passwords to her email accounts. Transparency is what you need and how she can demonstrate to you that the lies stop now.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)

Stu,

Just putting in my thoughts here...

I have a real problem with the fact that your BF knew of her past and didn't have the decency to tell you in advance of you proposing to her. I know you are now questioning that friendship. I can't help but think that he used you, a good man and a good friend, as some kind of savior for another friend he cares about. Your friend has some serious explaining to do on this. You may never know if you still would have proposed to her or not given her history at that time, but then that opportunity to analyze that decision was removed by them both.

Perhaps he needs to write a timeline as well about his time with your wife as well as NC with your wife. Enough with the talking between them AT ALL. Both of them have already demonstrated deceit on you. They both need to do a timeline and have just one shot at this. Full transparency is required to enforce NC.

I would contact the POS's BW as well. How and when you do this is up to you or even at all. For me, I would show her the excerpts of that diary to show her the mentality of the man she married, as well as evidence (if any) of the continued recent contact he attempted with your wife. That pretend-Alpha needs to go down hard and pay for his part in your shit sandwhich, and I imagine he'll paying through the nose in his own D. Like I said, that's just me. We all approach this in our own way.

Speaking of "Alpha" types, you think this pretend-Alpha is any Alpha material at all then I bet he would cut and run like a scared hyena if he were in your shoes and given the weight of your situation. You, in contrast, have not cut and run. You are facing this monumental challenge in your life LIKE A REAL MAN.

The 180 is a good idea while you get therapy. You really need to start your healing. Do this for you and your children. At least one of you needs to be a strong parent for them in this struggle. You've already demonstrated your self to be a stable and good person in your 10 yr marriage. Your wife may have been a good mother in that time as well, but now that role may be affected as you seek therapy and begin your healing.

Man, my heart really goes out for you.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 553 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, March 18th (Tuesday)

I wish you the best seeing your IC today, hopefully they can guide you in a good direction. I love how you told her that you didn't want to talk to her if she was going to continue on lying and deceiving you.
You need to get into the bottom of this and find out the WHOLE truth, it's going to be eating you up inside.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
PhoenixReborn
Member
Member # 22135
Default  Posted: 2:52 AM, March 19th (Wednesday)

Hi,

Just read the whole thread - you are being strong - good work.

Unfortunately, it appears your WW has proven things are much worse than originally admitted to, and I cannot help but suspect there is still worse yet to come.

That said I suggest the following:
Assume her affair with "Adonis" went much longer, as in, into your married life - likely far into your married life possibly till DDay.

My gut tells me (based on your posts) that her periodic 'doctor' visits were possibly to see AP - unless she can provide proof that she is truthful through insurance claims / receipts etc..

I would heed advice from others to get a polygraph, but unfortunately also I recommend you get a DNA test of your children; here is why:

WW still seem to have had contact with him given he was there at the company dinner, why was he at her company dinner? Does he work in same company / institution? - sounds like she has had the means to be in contact with him the whole time.

-WW admitted she liked being dominated by this guy, and she had no problem allowing him to deface her diary and KEPT IT intact (together with belittling remarks about you).
she could have got rid of those pages and rewritten them.

AP (Adonis) belittled and disrespected you massively and even then after you had proposed and she accepted, she continued a longer term affair which could have been stopped after the first time.

Assuming he worst case scenario (which you should consider until proven otherwise) is that she has had periodic sex with him ever since, He liked to get off on cuckolding you, and if that stroked his ego, then it would be a massive ego boost to insist to her that she get pregnant by him and pretend the children were yours.
She could possibly go along with it because she like being submissive to him (as she herself said).

IMO Paternity fraud is possibly the worst thing a person can do - but it happens.

If you were to inform her of your intention to make sure your children are genetically yours, then her reaction may tell you a lot, but get the testing done regardless as it would be another avenue of proving her fidelity during marriage. Or at least that she had your children. - and not his.

If she gives a bad reaction to a DNA test, that would be a RED FLAG, and be cause for making it a priority.
If she has nothing to be worried about then she should not be concerned about a DNA test...

Main thing is to cover your butt and definitely consult a lawyer to know where you stand.

I wish you the best and hope these suspicions are wrong - I really do.

Good luck.
PR


Me - XBF 40 (Fiance)
Her - XWF (who cares)
# Always trust your Gut - I didn't and am now regretting it. #
-Only give up when you won't regret giving up.-

Posts: 1118 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Australia
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, March 19th (Wednesday)

Stu,

I know that the post above is a bombshell that you may never have contemplated, but with all the new revelations, you need to explore this.

I'm sorry. That may be the worst part of all of this---just the POSSIBILITY that the children are not yours. If you already know otherwise, with certainty, that they are definitely yours, then take a breath of relief. But if you are not certain....

Be careful not to shut your wife down. Your reply to her was great, but it is important to keep her talking. The more information that she gives, the more that you will eventually be able to decipher if she is coming clean....or not.

Try to hold on to that calmness that you currently possess. It will come and go, with absolute certainty, but use it to your full advantage while you possess it. You can see things clearer in this state of mind. You can make better decisions with this mindset. It can help you detach some more---for your own protection.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, March 19th (Wednesday)

Stu,
How was your visit with the IC? Did they help much, too bad an hour isn't enough to get everything situated.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, March 19th (Wednesday)

My wife and I had a long unemotional talk this morning at a neutral location. I called my church and asked if I could use a conference room, they said yes. I knew that in this location voices (both) would be kept in check and soft; they were. My wife in a sort of calm manner told me details that she thinks went on in her and our life. I thought I would be an emotional wreck; I wasnít. I listened with some degree of emotional detachment. After the things I found out which were allegedly true, how much worse could it have gotten? I have been telling myself itís not my fault and Iím in control. I may be deluding myself, but it seems to be working. Iím not going to be one of those people that get walked all over, or cower in a corner; Iíve always faced problems directly and dealt with them. After reading many posts from you (friends) and the other stories at this site I believe Iím OK. There are others with far worse trauma to them and their families than mine. Iím not minimizing my emotional stress at all, itís there. I know that in 5 years all of this aggravation wonít mean a thing. I will have accepted my wife for whom and what she is, or I will have moved on. Tomorrow is IC day.
We were at the church and talked for a long time, it seemed like hours. Itís not possible to state everything we talked about. She said that for years she had been and was a drug user; it started in college. That there had been times she was so ďout of itĒ (her words) she couldnít remember things; thatís why she dropped out of college. She had posed for nude pics and was a nude model in art classes at school; she did have her pictures on exhibit at art events. It was in that art class she met my BF. She believed they lived together for almost a year. He was the one who introduced her to drugs; it started out with occasional use of marijuana and other drugs that made her feel good; their usage was recreational and usually on the weekend. She wasnít content with the occasional usage and started using daily. She said she took a cocktail of drugs (I have no Idea what that is.) in order to feel good. She said she didnít have money to buy her drugs so she started sleeping around with guys who would share their stuff with her when she was with them. She eventually became pregnant. She said she didnít know who the father was, there were just too many men; she doesnít know. My BF told her that she needed help, being pregnant, a drug addict; he wanted to see that she got help that he was sorry he introduced her to drugs and it got out of control with her. She told him she didnít need his help, she was fine, and left him. When she said all that to him he didnít take it well. She said he loved her and really was sorry for what happened to her.
She said that after she left my BF, she went to NYC and lived in a battered womenísí shelter, abortion was out of the question, too much time had passed. She added that she always thought he had been the father. The baby was given up for adoption immediately. She said she wasnít on drugs while at the shelter. They had procedures to deal with her drug use and pregnancy. After the baby was born she got a job as a stock clerk in a grocery store and was back on drugs and started sleeping around for money and or drugs. She said she didnít remember much, every day was just the same. She isnít sure how she got to Puerto Rico; she thinks she went there for a vacation with some girlfriends. While there she met some guy when she was trying to buy pot. They hooked up and she lived with him. While she was working for him he supplied her with drugs. Most of this time is a blank. She does remember being physically abused during this time and having to go to the emergency center for burns and cuts. What she does remember is her women friends (women she worked with) telling her the stuff she did; other than that is blank (She still may be keeping things from me. When youíre taking drugs can you lose your memory? I thought only alcoholics had black outs.) She had twins and did call my BF for help. She remembered him offering to help her, thatís why she called him. I thought someone here had said twins were delivered by cesarean section, I asked her; she said it was regular delivery, said the babies weight was low but they were ok. Before she and BF left PR a friend told her that she thought her boyfriend (hospital thought he was her husband) had taken the babies and given them to a couple; sold them. (Whatever the truth is, I donít know.)
She only remembers some things that happened to her in PR. I asked what drugs she used. She said whatever she could get and named these; heroin, meth, ecstasy, valium, roofies, she named others. (I donít know anything about these drugs or any drug. What do they do to a person taking them? Is it possible to lose your memory?) I asked her why her doctors never said anything to me about her previous child births and drug usage; she said she told them not to. Some of you stated I should have seen things about her body that would have told me about pregnancies or her past. She was in good shape when I met her and what did I know about the female body; she looked ok to me.
She did go through rehab. It was at this time she reconnected with my BF since he helped her and was part of her support structure. It was after she was released from the facility that she and my BF got back together for a while with a physical relationship. This ended agreeably for both. My BF told her to get in touch if she needed too. She returned to community college. She was working as a computer tec. when I met her. She was off drugs by that time, but she was using pot, I didnít know that. As our relationship grew and she found out that my BF and I knew each other she told my BF not to say anything about her past and their relationship. Everything related to the Adonis guy was true. She was physically with him when I proposed, and slept with him many times after we were engaged. Their relationship lasted up until a month before we were married, she thinks; not sure. I asked why? She liked his domineering control, his physical power over her; she wanted to please him. Her details did get me sick at this point.
I think Adonis went back to school, Iím not sure now. After Adonis left she contacted my BF; she said she needed his help and support, she felt guilty. She also told him she didnít want me to know anything, it was to be a secret. A few months after we were married she felt like she wanted to get back on drugs to make her feel good, being married was stressful. She called my BF and he would talk her out of using again. They also met to talk and one of these times they connected sexually. This friendship between them lasted about a year until his wife found out. No one said a thing. I asked if my children were mine, she said yes they are. She said she wasnít with anyone during the time they were conceived. (After all these years does it matter, they are my kids! I wouldnít love them any less if they werenít.))
She did tell me she and my BF did reconnect a few times over the years. She also said she connected with a few of my childrenís fathers. She said she was still using pot. She got it from the fathers she slept with or bought it. (Old habits just donít die!) I asked her if she ever reconnected with the Adonis guy. She said yes, it was a few months before our 5th anniversary. She had gone to a facility for an MRI and he happened to be working there (This place was connected to the hospital he worked at.). He acted as if time had stood still and reminisced about their time together, she said he was flirting with her. They got physical in a room at the hospital and she saw him a few times after that. She called my BF to talk to him. The Adonis guy had given her some drug to use and she was having second thoughts. My BF got her back to someone to help her. She has been seeing this doctor for the last five years. She said she has only been with me and no one else all this time. She said she loves me and wishes her past never happened and she is sorry.
After listening to what my wife has just told me I need to apologize to you all. Your perception that her story might be bogus was right on. Phantom Limb said that ďyou all take time out of your livesí to helpÖand this is a sacred place.Ē, it is. What I wrote originally was not completely true; I believed what my wife had said. I believe she was a desperate woman creating something she thought would salvage her reputation as a wife. Do I believe what she just told me, Iím not sure? Having been lied to already, Iíll show this th the psychologist tomorrow. I decided to write this all out so I could bring it with me tomorrow as well as the other posts.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
quedagh
Member
Member # 24195
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, March 19th (Wednesday)

You are a good man, Stu.

That is one hell of an avalanche.

You will get through this.


Divorced and safer, mostly.


Posts: 803 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Recovery Land
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, March 19th (Wednesday)

I need to clear up this typing error:

She also said she connected with a few of my childrenís friends fathers. She said she was still using pot. She got it from the fathers she slept with or bought it. (


Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, March 19th (Wednesday)

Wow.

The levels of betrayal here is just astonishing.

Wow.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 553 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, March 19th (Wednesday)

After listening to what my wife has just told me I need to apologize to you all. Your perception that her story might be bogus was right on.
What I wrote originally was not completely true; I believed what my wife had said.

No apology needed. You were/are in shock. You believed what she said and recounted it to us as accurately as you could. No apology needed for that. Perceptions, well, when you're in the trees, it's kind of hard to see the forest. We are removed from your situation and can actually see the whole forest.

Phantom Limb said that ďyou all take time out of your livesí to helpÖand this is a sacred place.Ē, it is.

Yep, it sure is.

A couple of things stuck out yet again.

Primarily, your *BF*. I don't think he knows the meaning of the word. I would be extremely curious to know(and no, don't ask him. Did he set you up with her to keep her around? I mean seriously, what were you to him? There is a forum in I Can Relate called Double Betrayals that specifically address this issue. He is no friend of the marriage, and no friend to you. He is toxic. You(and she) will need to completely eliminate him from your lives for any hope of reconciliation if that is your choice.

I believe Iím OK.

Hang on, It's a wild ride that just left the gate.

I know that in 5 years all of this aggravation wonít mean a thing. I will have accepted my wife for whom and what she is, or I will have moved on.

Stu, gently, this^^^^is not an accurate statement. Every ones healing is at a different pace, in 5 years, you may have reconciled or consider yourself healed by moving on, but it will always mean something. That's a lesson your WW failed to learn. There's a famous quote out there that goes something like *Those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it*.

She did tell me she and my BF did reconnect a few times over the years. She also said she connected with a few of my childrenís fathers.

She also said she connected with a few of my childrenís friends fathers. She said she was still using pot. She got it from the fathers she slept with or bought it. (

The timeframe here is tough to swallow. How old are your kids? When did they start having friends? She's been faithful how many years?

Oops, sorry. I got caught up in the story. I'm sure you did too. Right now, her story doesn't matter that much. Let's work on you.

Do I believe what she just told me, Iím not sure? Having been lied to already, Iíll show this th the psychologist tomorrow. I decided to write this all out so I could bring it with me tomorrow as well as the other posts.

Good for you. Make sure your psychologist keeps the focus on YOUR recovery. He should use the posts as background only and work on you.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

Stu, you are one strong dude. And, you certainly have clarity. You need not wonder about any kind of 'why' or 'how could she'. You got the answer. Your wife is severely screwed up. Time to get you on the way to healing and on your feet!


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:16 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

After reading a few of the posts about my children, I went back and did some calculations. My children are 8 and 10. That means she conceived around the time we were married, she had slept with the Adonis guy at that time. Since we were intimate before we were married I felt she conceived before the marriage. Our first child I was told was a preemie, born after 8 months, but 7 lbs. is a big preemie. It might be his. This child has green eyes and blond hair, just like him. No one in my family has blond hair or green eyes; weíre all brown eyes and black/brown hair. I went on the internet and found pictures of his family at an awards presentation my child looks like him and his children.
My other child is 8 and was conceived around the time my wife was screwing my alleged BF, it is possible that child could be his. I went through old pictures I have of him as a child and teenager, there are similarities.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
alback
New Member
Member # 41336
Default  Posted: 2:39 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

Stu,
As I finished in my last post, you don't know the whole story..... and there is more to come! Your wife appears to be telling the truth, but as extreme a set of tales as you have been told, you now know her to lie. she has for over 10 years.

I am so sorry about everything that is being uncovered in what you believed was your marriage. I am not surprised about her situation with the 'Adonis', her reference name alone tells you her feelings towards him.

The common thread is that she cannot say no to any dude who approaches her. The doctor, fathers of friends of your kids, a drug dealer in Puerto Rico, your BF (after your marriage). The list goes on, you can be certain there is more.
She may blame the drugs, but she probably wasn't stoned when she went to the hospital, or your kids events. She made many clear decisions to perform sexually outside the marriage.

You now know that your wife has disrespected you from the day you proposed and she has never shown remorse for over 10 years. Likely the same during your dating phase too.

Your wife has definitely uncovered some legal issues concerning this Adonis character if he really is a medical practitioner. He has abused the premises of the hospital by having sex with a patient, he has provided your wife with drugs illegally. He has totally dishonored his profession his marriage and you. I would take this opportunity to wipe the smug smile off his face. Seek legal action against him, report him to the medical profession, his wife and seek a paternity test from him.
You will need a sworn statement from your wife. Not likely considering her relationship with him is almost as long as with you. Plus she has probably always suspected he fathered the first child.

What you do with your supposed BF is your call. He has used you and your wife. I would inform his wife of what you know. Your wife may not be telling the truth that his wife knows at all.

It is time to protect yourself, seek legal advise and prepare for the worst. Talk to your family, seek their input as well as the IC.

Take care of yourself.


Posts: 32 | Registered: Nov 2013
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 4:29 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

You said it yourself people on here who thought there was a lot more to the story turned out they were right, it's not to make it worse for you buddy just because we know your pain. And some of them actually have the same story. Couldn't believe what people were telling them could be true. Just like someone just posted I bet you there's a lot more to the story. So now that you know you can trust the people on here. Please take their advice seriously.

Someone just posted the (Adonis) Dr. Shit for brains needs to be held accountable for he as he hospital physician was your wife was a patient. First of all you need to bring charges against him. Having sex with her on hospital grounds given her drugs that's fucked up and I'm sure your wife not the only woman he's abused and definitely his wife needs to know ASAP.

Well I guess you found out BF isn't really a friend after all he's a real piece of shit. Would love to hear what he's got to say. I wouldn't even bother giving him the time of day.

After reading this Ė it brought me to tears. Saying to myself how fucking cruel people can be to each other unbelievable the people that are supposed to love you.


Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:49 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

I am sorry, friend. The betrayals keep coming and coming.

As for your children---I think that it is important to investigate for medical reasons only. Nothing changes between you and them. But the last thing you want to find out, is that they need medical assistance from you...only to find out that you are not compatible. If this could be done without the children knowing(I know...deception), you may keep from disrupting their lives.

If your WW never stopped using pot, then rehab wasn't really successful. She may not be using harder drugs, but with all her lies, I would doubt that she has stayed clean of these. If she was willing to be physical with your childrens' friends' fathers for drugs---then what isn't she willing to do?

It's just a whole new layer to the treachery. Now, those fuckers will have to be dealt with....in time. Like 5454 stated, right now, it is all about Stu.

You are doing great so far. Don't let anyone...particularly yourself...convince you otherwise. I hope your IC goes well. Lean on him and SI as much as you need. Remember, the deeper you fall down the hole, the closer you get to the bottom...so you can start your ascent. Good Luck.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

Spoke with wife this morning about the children and conception. After some unbelievable explanations about her time with Adonis that had as many holes as Swiss cheese, she gave me the truth (maybe, it keeps changing). She and Adonis were involved sexually until October or November, not the end of August. She may have conceived any time between Augusts through September, maybe October; Iím not sure. She said she was using a birth control diaphragm when we had sex back then, but not with Adonis; she said using it required preplanning. She didnít know when or if she would be having sex with him, so she would leave it at home. The way she spoke, it seemed that they were involved a lot. How she was describing her time with him, it sounded like a daily occurrence; I know that wasnít possible, but it did sound that way.
Whenever I was at work they would get together, it was easy then, I had two jobs. He left for school the second week of September with his wife; she was employed at the school he was attending. September through October she would drive to his school so they could hook up. Her job at the time required her to drive to clients and sometimes she would be away for a few days at a time. I had traveled with her on some of these assignments, so I didnít think anything was out of the ordinary. When the bills for motels came, they were business related, I was clueless.
I always surmised she got pregnant in August or September. It had to be his, she used a diaphragm with me. Unless she was sleeping with some other guy also? We didnít have time to get into the story about my second child; I had to leave for my IC meeting.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

Stu,
Look, I'm sorry I brought up the paternity. That could have been dealt with later. I only used it as an example of her continued/continuing lying. Is it/will it be an issue? Probably. There are some gentlemen here who have dealt with that issue successfully and continue as their childrens Father. The kids are blissfully unaware or have dealt with the issue successfully.

However, that really needs to be *set aside* for the time being. Don't lose focus. Focus on you and only you. Obviously part of that is being the best Dad you can, it's part of who you are. Genetic testing may never be an issue. I reiterate my plea for you to implement the 180 and put the focus where it needs to be. There are decisions that you will be making *down the road* that are best made with a clear head. I remember your *I love my wife and would do anything to save my M comments*.

Good luck in IC today.

[This message edited by 5454real at 9:09 AM, March 20th (Thursday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
LifeisCrazy
Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

You know, I really hate to do this - but are you kidding me?

I'm reading through this and it suddenly dawns on me that this is ridiculous.

Your best friend allows you to get married to (and continues to have sex with) a woman who is a known, heavy drug user and who, by the way, also has 3 kids? Really?? No concerns about HIV, Hep C, etc.?

A woman with this type of history goes through years of marriage and you never notice anything odd about her behavior - 'cause people with THAT much history aren't totally screwed up, right? All those years and you never said, "Hey, honey? What are all these burns and scars from?"

You never notice in 8 years that your kid has completely different hair/eye color than any other person in your family? Really?

And then - the kicker! Your wife had a preemie at 8 months.... THAT WEIGHED 7 POUNDS???? You do realize that could be a world record, right? Considering that, at 32 weeks or so, the average birth weight is 3.5 - 4 pounds. That's one big f'n preemie!!

Sorry, but I don't buy it.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

'cause people with THAT much history aren't totally screwed up, right?

People with THAT much history also have an amazing ability to compartmentalize and *explain away* any oddities that may come up or be noticed.

A trusting spouse is going to see what s/he wants to see and believe what s/he wants to believe to be true.

Sincerely,
*a person who was also subjected to a long con and had no clue*


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

LifeisCrazy,
You are absolutely right, I never questioned. On the surface we had a great marriage. My wife was affectionate and loving to me; she made me feel that I was the most important person in her life, besides my children. Our sex life was fantastic, 2 or 3 times a week, maybe twice on a weekend, what guy wouldnít be happy (of course she had years of practice). She knew how to make me not question anything, there was this orra that made me trust her implicitly. We rarely argued and had a stereo typical ďRobert Young , Family Knows Best, Ozie and HarrietĒ 1950ís perfect marriage (these are 1950ís TV shows Iíve seen on DVD). I loved her and never questioned her; she was the love of my life. What I can believe is that she was good at covering up what she didnít want to get out. Iíd say she was a professional lier, she was good at it. We did discuss the blond hair and eye color. She said in must be a recessive gene that we both had from our family that produced our child. We looked it up and yes it is possible if both parents carry that recessive gene. I had no reason to question my child was mine. I stated the info about the premature birth because it seemed odd that a premature baby would be that large. The nurse I spoke with said that based on her conception date, it was possible to have a premature birth that was close to term, and the child was healthy. Regarding my BF, he wasnít. He deceived me in every way, he is no friend; he cheated on his wife. He was only interested in himself. I didnít find out about my wifeís other life until a short time ago. As this whole thing has been evolving more details have surfaced that I did not know about. My wife was good at what

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

My comment got cut off.
My wife was good at what she did, lie. According to her she screwed around the first five years of our marriage with some of the fathers of our children's friends. I realize now why a number of dads were eager to hang around our house. It wasn't to hang with me and watch sports events. The only sport they were interested in was fun time with my wife.
I never knew that she used a birth control diaphragm; I didn't even know what it was until I looked it up. It makes sense now, most the guys she had sex with had pregnant wives; not all but most.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
LifeisCrazy
Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

She described his body in detail and there were a few Polaroid type pictures (17) of him and her in bed (graphic) naked. Her entries described their activities over the weekend, sexual and non-sexual. HE EVEN LEFT ENTRIES in her diary about his time with her. He described in graphic detail language the physical activates he did to her and what she did with him. Iíve been married to her for just over ten years and we havenít done those things; and she only knew him for a day or two. He wrote that I must be an ďÖhole.Ē He wrote that he heard me ask her to marry me and laughed, then had an orgasm; I said earlier they were in the act. He closed his paragraph with, ďIíve left you well lubricated for your boyfriend and if you need a refill just call me. You have my name and number.Ē

Seriously, dude. I was going to just let it go but if the moderators can't step in then maybe at least I can stop the madness.

Really? Polaroid-type photos? When was this... 1978? When was the last time someone took a "polaroid type photo?" Ten years ago is 2004. You do realize that there were cell phones way back then, right?

And this dude wrote THAT in a diary?? And she kept it, huh? For what, posterity?? Are you freakin' kidding me?

And, oh boy, nothing gets me off faster than hearing another man ask the girl I'm actively having sex with to marry him. Gotcha.

I think you're reading a few too many harlequin romance novels. Do you have any idea who Fabio Lanzoni is??

[Quote]I never knew that she used a birth control diaphragm; I didn't even know what it was until I looked it up.[/Quote]

Hmmm. You never wondered why your wife wasn't still getting pregnant with you? You never wondered why she had to go into the bathroom for a minute before she came to bed???

It makes sense now, most the guys she had sex with had pregnant wives; not all but most.

Well, of COURSE that makes sense.

Moderators, please.... hasn't this gone on long enough???


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2013
Hosea
Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

Stu:

Man, I'd been rooting for your reconciliation, when I thought, as you did, your wife's transgressions were limited to the earliest days of your engagement.

In seeing the latest updates, I can now only long, sadly, for your release from this cruel train wreck of a wife. She never deserved you, Stu, but once she had you, she should've valued you above every man on earth- because you represented a chance for a clean slate. If ever a woman needed that, it sounds like she did.

But she never really saw your true worth, and took it for granted. Reconciliation, at this point, seems all but doomed by your wife's shocking discounting of your worth.

I hope, in therapy and through the encouragements of others here, you're starting to truly see it and believe it. Because you deserve a wife worthy of you, Stu. And they're out there, wondering where all the great men are.

I hope, one day, you find one, Stu. And that your wife discovers, eventually, just what a priceless gift you were to her. She may not fully get it until she confronts the devastation of losing the best thing she ever had.


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 4:26 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

LifeisCrazy...

No one is asking you to buy his story, so instead of creating doubt in other members mind and at the same time making this member feel completely unwelcomed, we suggest you stay off the thread.

And for the record, just because *you* don't believe this could really have happened doesn't make it any less real.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198282 | Registered: May 2002
yme32313
Member
Member # 42091
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

I agree with Deeply Scared, the man is seeking/asking for advice and encouragement not want to be buried more into the situation that he is in.
He's trying to grasp all that he can here! Secrets are coming out and he's having trouble on what he needs to do next. Let's all help him! Remember HE didn't do the betrayal she did and we're he to help. Not ridicule him.
Stu, I'm hoping your IC is helping you cope with all the information that you learned and helps you on what YOU decide is best for your family.


Me: 31
H: 55
Dated: Aug. 2003 M: Mar. 2013
Cheated: While dating

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New Mexico
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

Stu, stay strong in the face of adversity. Your decision needs to be just that, YOURS.

Still got your back.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
sidney2718
New Member
Member # 41190
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

Well, I'm stupified.

The OP, it seems to me, has only one choice. Divorce NOW. He has no wife, the kids aren't his, his "best friend" isn't.

I think he deserves a start-over. But before he does that he has to out his best friend to the guy's wife (after having sex with her, of course). And then he has to notify state authorities about Dr. Adonis and his ethics. Then he needs a divorce followed by a new career. I wonder if he has ever considered writing a novel? Or he could reconcile with his wife and they together could write a marriage manual.

[This message edited by sidney2718 at 8:56 PM, March 20th (Thursday)]


Posts: 41 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Northeast US
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

I went to IC today, nice person to talk with. We covered a lot of general info; why am I here, expectations, length of time for services, cost of service, etc. I gave him a copy of postings from the sight, he skimmed it; interested in my comments. Suggested I not vent at a sight like this, spent few minutes explaining why he felt that way. We talked about my feelings and thoughts, expectations, the children. Yes the children, whether they are mine genetically versus emotionally. Before I knew it time was up. I will see him next week, left feeling positive. After reading LifeisCrazy comments I understand my ICís opinion about not coming to these public places. Why do some of the individuals her strike venom and want to rip my guts out? I will be re-thinking my position about posting comments on any site. Iíve written from an emotional state, not a rational one, may be that is coloring my intent. I have tried to understand the anger coming from LifeisCrazy and others. I went back and re-read every post. Frankly, if I was not involved Iíd think it was crazy fiction; who could live that lie? But it turns out to be my life right now.
Iíve projected (written) my thoughts as they come to me and used words which I thought would convey my gut emotions. But a number of individuals read what I wrote and came away with an interpretation I did not think I suggested or implied. Or they donít fully read what I wrote, but add their own interpretation to what they think I wrote. I feel their anger and try to understand why they feel as they do.
The questions posed by LifeisCrazy have already been discussed in previous posts explaining the how and why of the diary and pictures.
I always thought she was on the pill; I had no reason to believe otherwise. When we talked about children she said she would be ready to conceive. Yes, I did not have any knowledge of the diaphragm, what it was or did. I am dumb founded that she used a birth control diaphragm with me and not with others.
LifeisCrazy you are projecting your life experiences towards me. My wife when I was dating her did have an instant picture camera in her apartment and film was still available at the local store. I had a Polaroid camera that I used in my work for instant documentation along with digital equipment. My comment about Polaroid type photos was meant as a generic descriptive one, everyone knows what a Polaroid picture is, and the pictures were small square photos that looked like an instant picture.
Regarding the families we were friendly with, we all were starting families and most of the women were pregnant. My comment was just an exasperated one dealing with info I had just learned. Just about every childís friendís mother was pregnant back then.
Iím not responding to create an argument. I appreciate your input it does help me keep my perspective on things and realize how absurd my life has become. Thank you.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

Hosea, I hear what you are saying along with the others. I keep thinking, just because someone is sick, you don't throw them under the bus. L know this is crazy, I still LOVE my wife. For ten years she was a great wife; loving her was exciting. She has been two different woman and her dark side (Star Wars metaphor) is the problem. If I can except that she can be cured of what ever is troubling her I might be able to stay, I'm not sure. But with IC counseling I might discover that I've lived with my head up my ass, then I'll take other action.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
quedagh
Member
Member # 24195
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

Stu- 5454 says what the vast (and by vast I mean so much most it is almost all) majority has your back.

I am not sure I agree with your IC about posting here. The more you can let it out in any sympathetic forum, the better- an IC, a friend, a group, a website with over 40000 people who have suffered what you are suffering.

The added bonus is that here there is real empathy in the support and advice.

Stay strong. BUT- protect you. You need to focus on you so you can be there for the littles (dna yours or not).


Divorced and safer, mostly.


Posts: 803 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Recovery Land
IsthereEVERanend
Member
Member # 42216
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

Inappropriate comment.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:38 PM, March 20th (Thursday)]


Me: Older than dirt
FWW 63
DD 8/1990 She confessed to a 2 month ea/pa
Asked forgiveness but volunteered to leave. No way was I going to give her the boot

The eight most feared words used together in the English language: We need to talk. Th


Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Utah
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:32 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

I keep thinking, just because someone is sick, you don't throw them under the bus.

No, you don't throw them under the bus. You do, however, have to protect yourself from allowing *his/her* sickness to overtake and negatively impact your life, kwim?

That whole train of thought of not walking away from someone who is *sick* caused me to remain in my M for far too long because I was looking at that concept in the wrong way. Once I finally realized that my (now)stbx wasn't bothering to help *himself*, then I knew that I had to get the heck away from him for my own emotional well-being.


And stu, just a quick word about SI. Always remember that you take what you want and *leave* the rest. There are many people here, from many walks of life and many different circumstances. All of us have good days and bad....sometimes our responses are *spot-on* (quite often, actually ), but there are times when someone is having a shit day or in a shit mood or just <whatever>. Just shrug it off and carry on.

This really is the best place to talk to people who have been in situations similar to your own. This really is the type of stuff that no one can understand unless they've actually *been* there.

Have you spoken to your BF since the new revelations?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

Stu, gently,

You know, SI is a sacred place to a lot of us. It gets us through some of the darkest points in our lives. Being able to come to this forum openly and honestly is extremely important. People are taking time out of their lives to try to act as a support to one another, be genuine, offer guidance.

From Phantom Limb. Believe it or not, sometimes someone who, for whatever reason, decides to take advantage of that pain and suffering. They will make up a story just to get reactions. There was a poster here who actually decided it would be *neat* to post as both the wayward and betrayed. It( I refuse to dignify the troll with a human identifier) actually put together a convincing enough story that members here actually began to fracture and pit one against another. Many hurt feelings were created and thus, many here are wary of stories that just seem

it was crazy fiction; who could live that lie?

Some of the posters are reacting to exactly that. That's also why you saw the reaction of the moderator.

Frankly, my life has not always been a bowl of cherries. At 16, I was going to school with twin girls. Their father owned a *Gentlemens Club*. He didn't care if I and about 6 of my buddies went in and played pool and drank. Really fine specimen of humanity in retrospect. Other things were available(all the drugs you mentioned and then some) But for the Grace of God, I didn't partake in those, but some of my friends did. I digress. The women who worked there. Well, they would reach a point where their *skills* burned out. They either completely went down the tubes, or tried to go straight. You know, find a guy, get married have kids and leave *the life* behind them. The problem with doing that? Well, the guys who were somewhat experienced in *worldly* ways, quickly smelled a rat. They would quickly bail. They would see through all the behaviors pointed out to you that you missed. The only solution? Target the innocent. Guys who haven't been around the block. I believe you said you were a virgin when you met? Prime material for her. She could *start again*. The issue with that is, dealing with everything she had done/been through requires intense therapy. Without it, old habits begin to recur. Abuse victims often will attempt to recreate the *bad situation* and hope for a better outcome.

Anyway, point is that there are people here who have gone out of their way to help. Others have a hard time believing for the reason quoted above. Personally, I will believe someone needs help and will respond to the best of my ability as will many others here. Again, we've got your back.

There's an axiom thrown around here all the time. *Take what you need, leave the rest*.

Whatever your choice is Stu, I wish you nothing but goodwill.

Sending strength to you to help you through these difficult times.


ETA clarity


[This message edited by 5454real at 9:01 AM, March 21st (Friday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
quedagh
Member
Member # 24195
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

You are not throwing them under the bus.

You are putting your oxygen mask on first.

Like they suggest on the plane- you can't help your kid if you are passed out from lack of oxygen because you didn't put on the mask first.


Divorced and safer, mostly.


Posts: 803 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Recovery Land
alback
New Member
Member # 41336
Default  Posted: 2:56 AM, March 21st (Friday)

Stu,
I am not surprised your IC does not recommend using a site like SI. I recall my wife's commending my seeking sites with one while another said the same as yours. Yes, we all try to help, based upon our own experiences. Yes, we all see something in each others situations that can somehow relate to our own.

Another IC told my wife that just because she met my supposed to be friend for months, had sex, it wasn't necessarily an affair?? We are on her third now, you will find the one that is very helpful.

For your sake, I wish your story wasn't true, it is unbelievable to think of the extent you have been betrayed. If it is not, I still have benefited from some of the reflections upon my own situation.

Is Crazy wrong in calling this out, are you so gullible that you have been duped for 10 years? In my case for 32 years since the affair and I still do not know how long it lasted. For Crazy, he was duped for 2 1/2 years. The length of time is not important, the actions of our spouses and support we gain is. Yours situation is extreme, you seem really calm and perhaps it is this calm that adds to the skepticism.

Where I have a question, is although your wife probably has more truths to bring forward, she now seems to be telling some pretty scary stuff about herself and her marriage to you. Also in a rather calm fashion? I wonder of her motive at this point?

I believe your wife remains very connected to Adonis, and suspect her connection with him has grown over the years. She knew she was trying to get pregnant with him as she took precautions with you. There is really something very wrong about this side of the story.

I also believe that if your wife travelled and stayed over night, she probably has more to disclose.

Time to out Adonis, and your friend. As to the guys who came around for your wife (kids events), too much risk that the outing would come back to your kids.

I wish you added strength, I hope you protect yourself and your kids, if this is true it is going to get much worse.


Posts: 32 | Registered: Nov 2013
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, March 21st (Friday)

About the IC versus SI:

There will be pros and cons to each side of the argument. But what you really have to ask yourself is: "Which method feels right?" Or: "Do both methods feel right?"

There have been great supporters who give excellent insight here on SI. Occasionally, there are comments that make someone feel uncomfortable, or may feel out of line. And to counter that, there are often stories of ICs who give terrible advice, and have no idea of how to deal with infidelity. Hence the "take what you want, and leave the rest" theory that is preached here.

I am all for professional counseling. I am also all for this site. They can be used as sounding boards for differing advice. But ultimately, you need to feel comfortable. You need to believe that you are taking the correct steps---not just being told something that makes you feel good(or bad). That often makes things difficult, because we want to *hear* some things so badly, that we make poor judgements due to those needs. This is where you need to be careful.

My advice?

Listen to both IC and SI. If you become disconnected with one or the other, then you should look at other potential options. I know that this place is great...it took me through my darkest times, and made me deal with that elephant in the room that I was trying so hard to ignore. I know by your past posts that you have received, and acted on, sound advice. I have also read advice on this thread that does not help your current situation. But in my opinion, it is easy to decipher help...and easy to decipher frustration/antagonism.

No matter what, I am sure that your IC will agree to some certain things preached here:

--You have to work on yourself. After all, that is what this is all about.
--You can't fix your wife. You can absolutely try to guide her to make the correct steps, but ultimately, it is up to her to do the hard work to change herself.
--The best chance for reconciliation is to try to keep the lines of communication open. Let her continue to talk. Let her know that while you want to attempt to save the marriage, there are no guarantees. But the best chance to do so, is to communicate.
--There is no chance to save this marriage without honesty. ZERO. The days of blissful ignorance are over. There are dozens of issues that need to be addressed, but if the trickling of truth continues, the marriage is virtually destined to fail.

If your IC is not in agreement with these issue, then we have a problem. These are common sense issues---and are the most important. If ANYONE tells you differently...and I don't care who it is...then they do not have your best interests in mind. But I am sure that you already know this.

Keep plugging away, Stu.

Honestly, what other options do you really have at this point? You can't run away from yourself.

Good luck, friend.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, March 21st (Friday)

Maybe I've missed the comment, but are there any plans for DNA testing of the children? It would expose whether your wife deliberately tried to conceive with Adonis or not. Or your BF for that matter.

If your wife was really the town siren, I should imagine it would be very difficult to remain married to her. Her sexual excesses seem beyond forgiveness and so disrespectful to you.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, March 21st (Friday)

Today was an eventful day. My wife had lunch this afternoon with my BFís wife and told her all about the relationship she and he have had over the years. As it turns out he and my wife did know each other sexually in high school and even dated after she graduated. Thatís the reason he went to that college. Their romantic friendship began when she was a senior and he was a sophomore; they both were on the schools swim team and connected one weekend when the swim team was away at a competition.
My wife said his wife did not take it well; she phoned my BF and told him she was filing for divorce and he was not welcome at her house.
My wife said she had an epiphany. (My reaction was, ya, right!) She realizes that she has FÖked up everything that was good in her life. She is glad Iím going to IC. She said she doesnít know what the future will be, but hopes we both survive, together or individually. I donít know where this has come from. Maybe she found out I spoke to lawyer, I didnít tell her I was seeing one.
If this is one of her scams, Iíll wait to see what happens.
I asked her what else will be happening, she said she didnít know. She has scheduled a meeting for me with her doctor. She said she would be there if I wanted, but she told the doctor he could discuss anything he wanted and signed a paper giving him permission.
I havenít even begun to absorb what her actions with the diaphragm might have created. She used it when she was with me and not with the guys she slept with, especially this Adonis guy. She told me that to use the diaphragm it took planning and you could only keep it in for a short time. Since she didnít know if she would be sleeping with someone she left it at home. By the way I really didnít have any idea what a diaphragm was or that she was using one. I thought she was on the pill.
Here is more unbelievable deceit. Did she want to get pregnant with her Adonis, and / or the other fathers from our social group? Why did she do this? Wouldnít she have wanted to have had a child that was from both of us, not from one of her lovers?
Right now Iím holding off on DNA testing of our children. I need more time to process all the events Iíve just learned; Iíll do it when I think the time is right.
All of her actions now are well and good, but look at what her conduct has done to me and our family! This jury will have to wait for more data. I won't hold my breath until I find out.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
circlingthedrain
Member
Member # 25733
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, March 21st (Friday)

Stu,

Sorry for all of your pain. So,she finds out BF is going to be free, and suddenly she want to make sure you both survive whether together or individually. Sounds to me like she is hoping to trade you in for BF.

Keep you powder dry, I fear your journey has just begun.

Strength to you.



BH (me), 53
FWW (Her) 55
DD18, DS15
D-Day 12/23/2007
R going well

Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then --- Bob Seger


Posts: 326 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: East Coast
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, March 21st (Friday)

So your WW tells you that she realizes that she's fucked up everything good in her life and is glad that you're going to IC. Ok. I think her epiphany was more the result of seeing how BF's wife reacted as opposed to her knowing you've spoken to a L. It may just be that she had a small realization of how fortunate she is that you didn't hefty bag her shit.

She's given you permission to speak to her doctor. Which doctor....her medical doctor or her psych doctor?

Have you had any contact with your BF since these new revelations came to light?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, March 21st (Friday)

Also, have you guys discussed the questions that you have regarding the paternity of your kids (or has she)?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, March 21st (Friday)

I need more time to process all the events Iíve just learned; Iíll do it when I think the time is right.

Great answer.

I spoke to lawyer, I didnít tell her I was seeing one.

Another good one.

Right now Iím holding off on DNA testing of our children.

Damn, three for three. It could become an issue though. Medical issues come to mind. Parental histories play a huge role in healthcare decisions. Second, in case of D, where does that leave you in terms of custody/visitation.

She said she would be there if I wanted, but she told the doctor he could discuss anything he wanted and signed a paper giving him permission.


Grand slam. However, not a primary concern. You know that I'm going to say work on you first, right?

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, March 21st (Friday)

There are some things that you cannot *unsee* once the light has been shone on them. And this paternity thing is one of them. I just don't think that you're going to be able to back-burner this issue.
You consider your children *yours* regardless of biology.........but now that the question has been raised, you are going to need the truth. How you handle whatever that *truth* is will be a work in progress, but you HAVE to deal with accurate information in order to make any type of informed decision.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:53 AM, March 22nd (Saturday)

A few things have occurred since my last post. I had another conversation with my wife about our children; she said again, that they are mine. She said that from her last period until conception, she only had sex with me (I hope so). She said she did not use the diaphragm with me at that time, she wanted to start a family (whatís the truth, it keeps changing).
My former BF called and wanted to talk with me. He started to say he was sorry, I hung up. I called his wife and we talked for a while, she was in extreme emotional stress. I told her about this site. I donít think she was interested or really listening. She said she was going to stay with her mother or sister; I told her if she needed me just call. I donít think she will. Iím upset about her; I know what I have been going through. How many lives and families are ruined because of her (their) actions. Itís not fair that people like my wife seem to get away with this crap. I was reading on the internet that wives who cheat and screw around in the state of NJ can petition the courts for alimony. They destroy the marriage and get compensated for it, itís not fair.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:05 AM, March 22nd (Saturday)

(whatís the truth, it keeps changing)

That's why I suggested a written timeline. ONE chance.

I was reading on the internet that wives who cheat and screw around in the state of NJ can petition the courts for alimony.

Oh crap. Yep, they can. Forget what I said about determining custody. Do it now. Obviously, consult your atty yesterday. Hopefully, you won't be stuck(yes, I know they are *your* kids, but IMO, if she claims otherwise, rock, meet hard place.) if you are not the bio father. Determine paternity now. 2 entirely different ways the courts will approach this.


Strength

[This message edited by 5454real at 2:39 AM, March 22nd (Saturday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:51 AM, March 22nd (Saturday)

I was reading on the internet that wives who cheat and screw around in the state of NJ can petition the courts for alimony. They destroy the marriage and get compensated for it, itís not fair.

Yup. From a fellow New Jersian, I can tell you that this state is No-Fault, so infidelity means very little. If you are willing to get down and dirty, you can contest her ability to parent her children, but otherwise, the courts look at what the status quo was for a duration leading up to filing. If you are the primary funder of this marriage, expect to continue to do so in divorce.

Yes, it sucks. But don't get too far ahead of yourself.

Like 5454 constantly states, work on you. Keep communicating. Keep gathering information, and verifying the contents. Hopefully, the picture will start to get clearer and clearer.

As for the paternity testing---if you aren't emotionally ready at the moment, so be it. But this issue will NOT go away...so please, work on gaining the strength to resolve this. If there is any positive, imagine how much of a relief it would be to you if they are biologically yours.

Remember:

---Stu first.
---Children second
---Wife/marriage third


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, March 22nd (Saturday)

Question:
What is the procedure for DNA testing? I don't want my children to learn about it. Do I go to their doctor, clinic or lab and ask them to do it? Can I do it? How long does it take? What are the chances of getting wrong results? I am SCARED to do this. I love my children. I'm not sure what my reaction might be if one or both aren't mine. With the emotional roller coaster I've been on I'm not sure of anything right now. I woke up this morning shaking from a dream and threw up. I was watching my wife servicing her men and I and my children were in a cell watching her in action; it was very real to me. If I can't let that go, how will I react to the answer about my children if theyíre not mine? I know me, I hold onto things emotionally and let them fester and mushroom out of proportion. This then turns into anger and hate. I don't want to hate my children; they're innocent in all of this. As I write this I'm beginning to feel this rage brewing if they aren't mine. I just had an image of her and him laughing as they created my children's life. Please, positive help from someone who has gone through this.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Hosea
Member
Member # 42422
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, March 22nd (Saturday)

Stu:
"I love my children. I'm not sure what my reaction might be if one or both aren't mine."

Paternity tests-- even if they negate the possibility of your biological tie-- do NOT change the fact that YOU ARE THEIR FATHER.

You raised them. Provided for them. Changed their diapers. Helped teach them language and love and everything they know of this world.

They are, as you note, innocents-- no matter what. And your value to them, your singular importance to their very sense of meaning, is paramount. Nothing can change that- nothing!

If one or both has another biological father, he is even more of a dirtbag than before-- and they are only too fortunate to have been raised by a better man. Consider them adopted, but no less worthy of your love.

Turn your anger towards its deserved targets- if you are not the biological father of one or both. You know who they are-- and what they are-- and they, not your children, are the guilty parties in this nightmarish affair.


John 8:10-11: "Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, ďWhere are your accusers? Did they not condemn you?Ē

ďNo, Lord,Ē she said.

And Jesus said, ďNeither do I. Go and sin no more.Ē


Posts: 106 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, March 22nd (Saturday)

Hosea, as I dwell on this cataclysmic decision of DNA testing I can feel the volcanic rage boiling in my gut about being forced into finding out if "MY" children are mine biologically. I heard your kind words, BUT, if I had adopted my children it would have been my loving choice and they would be mine forever. If my children aren't mine, but someone elseís, that loving moment of creation was TAKEN from me. As I think about the possibilities, I'm literally shaking; like a cold chill. I'm thinking that every time I look at them, hold them, touch them, and kiss them it would be a reminder of that man my wife allowed to make love to her, not me. It wouldn't be a mental picture that I'm re-playing 24/7 that might diminish with the passing of time, but a real concrete statement of what occurred between her and her lover. My children's smile and laugh wouldn't be a reflection of mine, but him. My grandchildren wouldn't be mine, but his. All that would be his, whoever that man might be; for posterity, not mine. This is far worse than my finding out that my wife might have screwed a thousand men while telling me she loved me. I can leave her, if it came to that; I can't leave my children.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, March 22nd (Saturday)

Your wife stated that the kids are yours. Tell her you will divorce if the DNA shows otherwise and note her reaction. Fear? Concern? Nervousness? Any of those reactions will help you in assessing whether she is lying about her statement that you are definitely the father.

You really can't move ahead until you know; it will eat at you during any attempted reconciliation. If the children are yours I can see you mending this marriage. If not it would be most difficult.

The wholesale adultery and lack of respect for you is profound. If the kids have been fathered by Adonis, or the BF, or one of her other casual lovers, is should be the last straw for your relationship.

You can order a test kit online, gently scrape a sample of epithelial cells from inside of the mouth, then send them off. Or take just a saliva sample depending on the vendor..
Reasonable cost.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, March 22nd (Saturday)

Ok, I know this won't be very popular. But. If you really feel that way,stu, that finding out one, or both, of your kids are not biologically yours, then don't take a DNA test. I think it would do far more harm than good. You love them. They love you. You are daddy. If finding out they are not yours will cause you to be unable to love them as you do now, then don't take the test.

Yes,.

I know everyone.

I do.

I understand all of the "it's not fair" and "he shouldn't have to be responsible for kids who aren't his" and "he has a right to know". I do. I understand. But in most states, if children are born while the two parents are married and living together, the husband is automatically legally their father. So finding out they are not his won't make a difference. He is legally responsible.


His oldest is...what? 10? A 10 year old little boy. Stu is dad. I can only imagine what would happen to a little boy that age who suddenly loses his dad because mom was *all kinds of fucked up.*


What happens to those children if they lose their dad? They're left with their mom. This mom. Im thinking these kids could wind up just like mom..they might follow in her footsteps. For 10 years stu has thought these were his children. He loves them. He is a great father.

Stu..you care about these kids. You are their dad, regardless of DNA. I strongly urge you to do what is best for you AND your children..just as any parent here would do.


As I said, I know this won't be the popular opinion. We all know how important living *the truth* is. One one hand, I see every valid reason to get a DNA test done NOW. OTOH, Im looking at this as a child who had a dad..and he left me. I know how much that fucked me up. I also have a 10 year old little boy. The thought of his suddenly having his dad walk away is excruciating.(Though I do know it happens..way too often) It would forever change who he is.

You don't have to do *anything* right now, stu. Other than STD testing, unless you've already had that done..both of you. You have been fed one of the shittiest shit sandwiches that I've seen her on SI. You can take some time to process things before you make your next move.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, March 22nd (Saturday)

Ok now and confused615 your advice is appreciated. But after heavy thinking I donít want to have testing done at this moment. The comment, ďI think it would do far more harm than good. If finding out they are not yours will cause you to be unable to love them as you do now, then don't take the test.Ē I would rather live with the uncertainty, this way I can say they are my children. I would rather live with it being this way for now than to find out conclusively they arenít my children biologically.
As I just said, ďevery time I (would) look at them, hold them, touch them, and kiss them it would be a reminder of that man my wife allowed to make love to her, not me. It wouldn't be a mental picture that I'm re-playing 24/7 that might diminish with the passing of time, but a real concrete statement of what occurred. Their smile, laugh wouldn't be a reflection of me, but him. My grandchildren wouldn't be mine, but his. All that would be his, whoever that might be for posterity, not mine.Ē Right now I canít go there; the negative results would possibly kill me (emotionally) and push me into depression. I need all the strength to get through this, for me and MY children.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, March 22nd (Saturday)

You don't have to do anything right now..or later. You can always change your mind. But once you take the test, it can't be un-taken, so to speak.

You're doing fine, stu. With everything you have learned in the last month, it's amazing that you manage to get out of bed every day.

Try to do something nice for yourself today.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, March 22nd (Saturday)

Nothing wrong with your approach stu, as you said a negative result could be too much to bear at this stage.

Then calmly tell your wife that you have no idea whether the children are yours or not, whether you are the father or not, and this doubt will remain for the rest of your life. Every time you look at your children you will wonder and be reminded of her frequent adultery.

Your WW will then have to go through the rest of her life with this sadness; that you have these doubts. If she is certain that the children are yours she will then pressure you into carrying out the DNA test just to clear this issue up and cement family bonds. After all she will partially enhance her reputation at the same time - at least she ensured that you were the father of your kids. This would definitely help reconciliation.

If however she seems relieved when you tell her about your decision not to test and doesn't suggest testing herself, then it would seem to indicate that she shares the same parentage doubts.
I know that if I was your wife I would demand testing to clear my name and remove any barriers between you and your children - If I was convinced you were the father.

Wonder what her response will be? If she is innocent of the charge of conceiving a child by another man, won't she want to clear her name with DNA testing?


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, March 22nd (Saturday)

Stu, I know, it's a tired refrain. Work on you. You don't need to make ANY decisions right now.

I will take exception with something you stated.

Their smile, laugh wouldn't be a reflection of me, but him. My grandchildren wouldn't be mine, but his. All that would be his, whoever that might be for posterity, not mine.Ē

IMO, that's not true. Everything that they are today is a direct reflection of you. You raised them, you comforted them when they hurt. You shared in their joys. The life they live today is directly attributable to you. In short, you're their Dad.

Again, my concern for the paternity is strictly from a medical/legal standpoint. What and why you decide is up to you.

If it's not too presumptive of me, may I suggest you start another thread in General. Something along the lines of "Paternity testing, pro's and cons". I think you might be startled at how many here are dealing with something similar.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, March 22nd (Saturday)

You do what you feel that you need to do, at this moment in time. What you have stated makes complete sense, so if this decision makes you more comfortable(or less uncomfortable), then I am all for it.

You can always revisit this issue whenever you like.

Their smile, laugh wouldn't be a reflection of me, but him. My grandchildren wouldn't be mine, but his. All that would be his, whoever that might be for posterity, not mine.

In genetics only.

Don't you believe in Nature vs. Nurture? You are the influence of these children. Please don't cede your children to these other people...they can NEVER have the positive influence on your children that you have. Hell, you appear to be the ONLY ONE who has continually had their best interests in mind. You are a great dad, and the best thing that could ever happen to those kids, would be your continued role in their lives.

I am so fucking pissed at your wife and her lover(s). Cheating wasn't enough? She had to betray every part of what is sacred to you?

In spite of this, keep her talking. You are so deep in this hole, that you must be nearing the bottom. Then, when you feel that you have all(or enough) of the information, you can make more informed decisions.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, March 23rd (Sunday)

I've read through most of the posts but did skip a few. Here's what bothers me. You need a written timeline STAT. It still doesn't make sense. She said she went to one year of college and then dropped out. Now she was in college living with your BF and he introduced her to drugs. So she would have been a Jr. In college. If I may ask, how old are you? I only ask because I could probably write you a timeline based on what you've posted.
Another thing. You believed she was on the pill? Why? This is a conversation most, if not all, people in a relationship have. "Are you on the pill? "no, I use a diaphragm".

In regards to Puerto Rico. Can she give you the names of even one person she went there with? That whole story sounds ridiculous.
I'd want names and without letting on I'd track one of them down and find out their side of the story. I'd also want the name of the twins Father. To do that much with him, she has to know his full name. Then I'd start looking into if that person existed. And how did she go from drug addicted crack whore to back in school functioning in society person?

What about her family? Can any of them verify these times in her/their lives? Certainly they would know if she had gone through rough stages.

Ok, so now two pregnancies? What about the obgyn who delivered your kids? If she had given birth before they would be able to tell. She also would have been given drug tests. Did she have those and did anything come back positive?

Lastly, your wife and your BF have been screwing your entire marriage. Don't listen to the BS of it was from time to time. They had no reason to stop. Until now.

Don't take my questions to mean I don't believe you. I don't believe anything your wife has said. I would be investigating all of this. GET A WRITTEN TIMELINE NOW.

[This message edited by cliffside at 11:43 AM, March 23rd (Sunday)]


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, March 23rd (Sunday)

Cliffside, everything you question I brought up at my IC in various degrees. I even said here that her stories are like Swiss cheese, theyíre loaded with so many holes. My IC person said we can try to dissect it, but basically he said, we need to make sure I'm OK so my children will be OK. Then we can try and find the truth, if possible. He said if we don't, I shouldn't dwell on what may be impossible and out of my control. I hope I haven't over simplified it. But as I have been learning, the alleged truths from her and time lines are a little obscure and difficult to follow. I originally posted about her cheating when I proposed to her, but that issue has morphed into greater concerns affecting more lives than just mine.
On Friday, 3/21, 6:10 PM I had said, ďÖ he and my wife did know each other sexually in high school and even dated after she graduated. Thatís the reason he went to that college. Their romantic friendship began when she was a senior and he was a sophomore (in high school); they both were on the schools swim team and connected one weekend when the swim team was away at a competition.Ē I had always thought they didnít know each other until they met in college. But as I have said, her story keeps changing. Tomorrow she might say something else. The story behind the conception of my children is still a crap shoot; she has given me multiple stories!
My wife told me she was older than me and her age is 39. Whether thatís true I donít know. I have never seen her birth certificate, she said it was lost. She said when she registered as a transfer student to our high school she had to have that Texas village she was born in supply that info. Since she was born at home by a midwife, her birth wasnít recorded immediately; it was recorded in her familyís bible. Since her family traveled back and forth across the border, no one rushed to record her birth. Her passport corroborates an age though, so there must be legal papers somewhere. I do know she was a senior when my BF and I were sophomores in high school.
She has changed her stories many times. Our last discussion about PR was that she was high almost 24/7 and doesnít remember much. I havenít pushed, I will be discussing everything at IC and Iíll tackle it with the help of my psychologist. She did say she was scheduling a meeting for me with her doctor (one who she has been with for last five years, I think) so he could talk with me. Regarding her OBGYN, nothing was ever sad about previous pregnancies, she recently told me she told that doctor not to discuss previous pregnancies with me, and he didnít.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, March 23rd (Sunday)

So have you spoken to your BF since all of these new revelations came to light?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, March 24th (Monday)

gonnabe, I mentioned in an earlier post that my so called BF called me to talk after my wife told his wife about their affair. I answered, but then hung up. He has sent me text messages, but Iíve ignored them. Whatís he going to tell me, that he and my wife have been screwing each other on and off since high school? I just learned that from her. Do you think thereís anything to gain by talking with this F..k?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, March 24th (Monday)

Do you think thereís anything to gain by talking with this F..k?

Nope. Nothing at all to gain. I was just wondering if he was still around and trying to manipulate the situation or if he had crawled under a rock. I think you have enough on your plate without having to deal with him also.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, March 24th (Monday)

Last night I didnít spend the night at my house, I found an efficiency unit a few blocks away and slept there. I posted last comment before I left for work.
I just got a call from my daughterís school this morning that she wasnít feeling well and I picked her up and brought her home. I asked where her mother was since the school calls her first. She said uncle xxx (BF) called her last night. She said, Mommy said he wasnít feeling well and he needed her help. The baby sitter (wifeís friend spent night with kids) got kids off to school. So I guess she spent the night with BF. Iím not going to jump to conclusions just yet. My wife has said she has not been involved with anyone in the last 5 years. Iím skeptical; Iíll wait for truth or lies.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, March 24th (Monday)

I found an efficiency unit a few blocks away and slept there.

Stu - I am sorry you are still dealing with all of this. I don't think it is a good idea that you leave your house. I think you are still deciding if you want R or not but if it doesn't go that way you not being at the house is not going to look good in a D situation.

Keep your options open and focus on your priorities, you and your kids. If mommy is still trying to unravel years of lies than they really need their dad.

As for testing your kids. That is a very difficult decision. I have choosen to not test my kids, I will always be dad to them and I don't need to risk having some test possibly saying otherwise. Yes, I understand the potential medical reasons may be an arguement to know for sure - if there is ever a medical reason my kids deal in the future that knowing who their biological dad is important - their real Dad, me, will make sure that any testing is done so they get the best medical care.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
spanz
New Member
Member # 42715
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, March 24th (Monday)

Stu, I initially advised cutting her some slack. But over the last 10 pages of unbelievable stuff, you really have to get out of that marriage. I can see no way to reconcile with this snake. Run, forest, RUN! Divorce her asap

Posts: 13 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: usa
IWantDoOver
Member
Member # 39440
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, March 24th (Monday)

Last night I didnít spend the night at my house... uncle xxx (BF) called her last night...
So I guess she spent the night with BF.

You're gone a matter of hours and this is her choice?

(((stu23)))

'The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.' ~Maya Angelou


Peace

Posts: 212 | Registered: Jun 2013
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

So I guess she spent the night with BF. Iím not going to jump to conclusions just yet.

I don't think that would be a very far jump.

First of all, she should not be communicating with this person as he is the AP. Second, if they were going to "talk", they could have done it over the phone. Third, even if they felt it necessary to see each other, she would not have had to leave the kids overnight unless they had other "plans" as well.

I think this supports the idea that she has been involved in this all along.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1083 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

Yesterday morning, when I found out my wife wasnít home last night, but was with my former BF, I said I wasnít going to jump to conclusions, but I did. My wife called me later in the morning to tell me that the hospital called her, my former BF was in a car accident and she was the only name on their to call list. He is in the hospital. I asked her why she went after all we are going through. She said, ďHe needed her, there wasnít anyone else.Ē This pissed me off, heís still involved in her (our) life; am I over reacting? Does this mean she still has strong emotional ties to him? I DONíT CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO HIM! How do I handle this?

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
annb
Member
Member # 22386
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

She crossed the line....again.

NC means NC.

Your wife had no business going to that hospital. None. I don't care that he had no one. He must have other friends/family members who can check up on him. She had to go and be the KISA?

Had you been in the house when this happened, would she have gone to him with your knowledge?

I am so angry and sad for you. She is absolutely clueless and continues to have no regard for your marriage.

BTW, I'd check with your attorney before moving out. Even after all this sh*t, it could be considered abandonment in some states.


Posts: 7591 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Northeast
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

she was the only name on their to call list.

Wait, he's MARRIED but YOUR WIFE was the only person on his call list? Huh?? That makes no sense.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
Losconang15
Member
Member # 42544
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

I've been following along for a while now but I had to comment on how pissed off I am for you. She broke NC and that is bogus. He's married! Even if he's not currently with his BW, she should've been his contact person. On top of that ok fine, he's a good friend and let's give her the benefit, though she doesn't deserve it, but let's say ok fine you had to go because there were no other contacts, why did she have to stay the night? Why not call his spouse who I'm thinking still have feelings for him because that's not something we can turn off a switch for, and tell her to stay with him as she so rightfully deserves to do? Where is his wife and does she even know his there? I'm pissed for you and for his BW. She has a lot of nerve putting what should be her priority (kids and your marriage) first instead of him.


Together - 14 years
Married - 7 years
DDay- Jan 15, 2014. WH had EA/PA

Hopeful reconciliation.


Posts: 78 | Registered: Feb 2014
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

He is in the hospital.

Are you sure? I don't think I would take her word for anything.

Once again, her story does not add up. I find it highly improbable that she is the only person on his contact list. And actually, even if she is, WHY IS THAT???

If she went to be a good samaritan, why did she have to stay all night?

Just seems full of holes. Again.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1083 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

Another thought. Have you called the hospital and asked them to put you through to his room? I also suspect the hospital is a bunch of BS.

Call his wife. Tell her this "story" too.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, March 25th (Tuesday)

I called the hospital, he's there. I called his wife, she told me the accident happened after he took more of his things from their home. She also told me that my wife wasn't the only women he had slept with. He confessed to her that he had hooked up with a woman from work and that it had been going on for almost 2 years. She told me she went snooping after my wife's confession to her and found mail from this woman on his computer. She told me she didn't give a shit what happened to him and she wasnít going to the hospital.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Losconang15
Member
Member # 42544
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, March 25th (Tuesday)

Wow Stu, he's obviously a piece of work :/ looks like his wife had enough of his nonsense.


Together - 14 years
Married - 7 years
DDay- Jan 15, 2014. WH had EA/PA

Hopeful reconciliation.


Posts: 78 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, March 25th (Tuesday)

I have learned a lot about him that sucks. He told his wife he was a "Player" and only did what nature gave him to use to do it with. He is an ass!
He was my BF and was to cover my back, not screw my wife behind it. My wife told me they had been intimate on and off from the time I started dating her up until 5 years ago; that's almost 8 years. He may or may not be the father of one or both of my children. If he is, I'll never be rid of him! My wife said she stopped screwing around 5 years ago. He and she remained friends without benefits for the last 5 years. At this point I have no idea what the true facts are with her or her buddies? Since I started IC I'm focusing on ME and my supposedly biological children; I'm becoming a mental case regarding this aspect of being their father.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, March 25th (Tuesday)

Last night I didnít spend the night at my house, I found an efficiency unit a few blocks away and slept there.

Rather than burning up your phone with apologies or worrying about how the children will take their Fathers absence, she spent the night with Dufus(former BF)?

I am curious, has she ever(since this came out) discussed her diagnosis with you? You said she was going to let you speak with him/her. Is that her physician or psychologist? When she was in therapy, who presided?

Stu, have you seen a physician yet? Given her sexual proclivity, I'm surprised that she hasn't contracted more than a few STD's. You have been exposed. No intimate contact till you SEE the results.

Since I started IC I'm focusing on ME and my supposedly biological children; I'm becoming a mental case regarding this aspect of being their father.

Good for you.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, March 25th (Tuesday)

I can see your point about not wanting to DNA test your children at this time; the trouble is it affects reconciliation with your wife. If they are truly both your kids, as your wife claims, then maybe you can get past her infidelity in time and successfully rebuild your marriage.

If however one or both are not your children then consider the facts. A woman is quite aware of her fertile periods; around 3-4 days of every month. She must have had sex with the OM knowing there was a strong likelihood of pregnancy if the act was carried out inside that fertile period. But she went ahead with the unprotected sex anyway. That it makes it a more or less deliberate attempt at conception with a man who was not her husband. This is probably the most treacherous betrayal a woman can carry out.

This should affect your decision to reconcile; so the DNA test is advisable unless you do not intend to reconcile at all, no matter what. In that case you could dispense with testing, divorce and get on with your life with someone new.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

Wait a minute. Something just dawned on me. If you spent the night at an efficiency, and she spent the night with him - who was watching the kids?


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

I find it very telling that your wife was his emergency contact. Not his wife...yours.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Losconang15
Member
Member # 42544
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

Cliffside - he said that the babysitter stayed with the kids all night.

Stu- you will always be their father. If they are not yours biologically they are in every other way. They can't take that away from you. Plus, you are their father no matter how many ways you want to slice it. If they are sick and need someone, they want their daddy- YOU.


Together - 14 years
Married - 7 years
DDay- Jan 15, 2014. WH had EA/PA

Hopeful reconciliation.


Posts: 78 | Registered: Feb 2014
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, March 27th (Thursday)

Got it, I missed the part about the sitter. Stu, just to clarify when I called BS on the story, I meant what your wife was telling you sounded like BS.

How are you today?


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
twisted
Member
Member # 8873
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, March 27th (Thursday)

DNA tests are at WalMart, Walgreeens, CVS, Rite-Aid, etc. about $30, plus about $125 for lab fees when you send them in.
Results in a 3-5 business days, by computer or phone. 99% accurate.
Requires a cheek swab. Simple.

Get it done and get on with it.


"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

Posts: 911 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Oklahoma
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

This morning I met with my wifeís psychiatrist and he explained a number of things about my wife. The major point was she is bipolar and he believes she might have been raped at age 11 when she lived in Mexico (this is what she told him). I asked if thatís why she has a history of being sexually intimate with almost all of her male friends. He went through various explanations and then used a term, hyper sexuality relating to her; Iím not sure I fully under stood. He unloaded an extreme amount of info which was over whelming. I asked how I could have lived with her for years and been oblivious to her condition. He said that since she had relationships with other men this gave her an avenue to vent at and with them instead of you (me). He also added that the non-prescribed drugs she was taking would also have affected her. When she was in rehab, part of her therapy was medication to help with her bipolar disorder, but her history suggested she took them sporadically, significantly reducing their effectiveness. He went on to state that for the last few years heís been seeing her, sheís been taking her meds more consistently. I asked why I didnít know she was seeing him. He said she wanted it kept between them. He was also very frank about my wifeís relationship with my former BF. He said she had a very strong emotional bond relating to him. I asked about their sexual connection. He was hesitant, but said, my wife gave him ďpermission for full discloser.Ē He said he would rather continue this discussion with her present if she was agreeable. A lot of what he was telling me sounded like BS, but I know virtually nothing about mental illness. He also said that her emotional and sexual dynamics were connected. Later in the day I went to IC and discussed what I learned this morning with my psychologist. He was helpful in helping me sort through what I learned. This info is not everything we talked about. A lot more was discussed about my relationship with her from the beginning as well as my childrenís well being.
If any of you have firsthand info dealing with mental illness, please let me know your experiences and how it was dealt with.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Uhtred
Member
Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

Damn Stu I just got caught up on your situation and I really can't believe that you are still there. That's an awful lot to take in. You have to do what is best for you and your family.

Your wife is truly a deceitful person and it seems there's no limit to her lies. You don't deserve this at all buddy. I'd seriously investigate all of her claims. Sounds like a lot of fabrication going on there to make you feel sorry for her. Maybe I'm wrong but it appears that way.

She is twisting and turning every chance you get and as others have said there is more still yet to come. Stay strong man and use your head. Don't keep getting used and abused like that.


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
ďYet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a swordĒ

Posts: 616 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

Agree with Uhtred; out come the psychiatrists with all the excuses for your wife's blatant cheating; as if she didn't have any free will and was powerless in the grip of her bipolar condition. It would seem she cannot determine between right and wrong.

So you have a cheating wife who is love with your BF and may have fathered her children with him. For heavens sake what are you waiting for? Just how much abuse are you going to endure before you pull the plug on this marriage? To your WW you are just the guy who materially supports her children, who very well may not be yours. Her heart belongs to your treacherous BF.

Carry out the DNA tests; if the kids are fathered by BF, take him to court for back child support. Might as well get some retribution out of this tragic mess.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Ciao_Bella
Member
Member # 9952
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

My son has bi-polar disorder and for a few years I attended monthly family support groups and read a ton of books on the subject.

People with Bipolar disorder often have serious issues with impulsivity (especially during a manic episode), are hyper-sexual, and very often suffer from substance abuse issues (trying to self-medicate).

Your wife should have told you about her diagnosis, since this illness impacts the whole family.

Some people are helped by medications and or a cocktail of medications. My son was a total zombie on his meds, and hated taking them, and found that they made him feel ďflatĒ emotion-wise.

What ended up helping him far more than the medications was a local ďDBTĒ program. DBT stands for Dialectical Behavior Therapy. Some mental health clinics call it ďCBTĒ which stands for Cognitive Behavior Therapy. He went through this program for 1 year and by the end of the year he had learned to manage his mood swings through the techniques he learned in his DBT program and was able to wean himself off the meds under the control of his doctor.

For him, it was a life-saving program, and the ONLY thing that helped. Heís been leading a mostly ďnormalĒ life since, holds a steady job, purchased a condo recently, and maintains an active social life including being very involved as a volunteer in his local community helping others with BP disorder and substance abuse.
I strongly recommend a year long stint in either DBT or CBT therapy for anyone who is dealing with Bipolar disorder

Your wifeís BP disorder does NOT excuse her behavior, but it might help explain some of it. I know my son did some things during the worst period of his BP days that were off his moral compass, and when he finally re-gained control of his mood swings he felt bad about things he did to hurt others (not infidelity since heís single), such as promise to do something with a friend and then not show up as promised which is NOT normal for him.

Itís a huge undertaking just to deal with a family memberís BP disorder diagnosis, but on top of that youíve been dealt shit storm of other major issues to deal with by your BS.

Ciao


Me (BS)Divorced from WS. He was diagnosed NPD by two Psychologists. He continued his affair with married OW for 13 years until he died in Oct 2011.

Two sons; 29 & 27 years old; I'm remarried


Posts: 365 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Michigan
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

Ciao Bella, thank you for your positive encouragement that my wifeís future as a person can be a positive one. My dilemma is if I leave her now, I feel guilty, and if I stay, I feel trapped.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

I do need to add that my wifeís psychiatrist was guarded in many of his comments to me. HE SAID IT WOULD BE UNPROFESSIONAL OF HIM TO DIVULGE CERTAIN THINGS SAID BY MY WIFE. He stated that if she wanted to tell me her most inner thoughts that was her decision. Iíll discuss this with her tomorrow.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

I asked about their sexual connection. He was hesitant, but said, my wife gave him ďpermission for full discloser.Ē He said he would rather continue this discussion with her present if she was agreeable.

I am going to give you a heads-up right now in regards to the question that you asked the psych....you are NOT going to like the answer to your question.

Something that seems to have gotten lost along the way is the state of your *now*. Your wife's involvement to this point seems very passive. You ask questions and she answers. She allows permission for her IC to speak to you.....but lets HIM tell you about her bipolar diagnosis.
Has she addressed the *who's the daddy* issue with you at all? Have you expressed to her your misgivings about the paternity of the kids? (maybe you have, I start to forget what has and has not been discussed in these really long threads).

I guess what I'm wondering is.....is she sorry???
Is she being proactive or just sitting back and letting you talk? Has she even mentioned the bipolar diagnosis to you.....or did she leave that for her therapist to do?


My dilemma is if I leave her now, I feel guilty, and if I stay, I feel trapped.

The secret relationship she had with your BF is more than enough reason for you to feel NO guilt about leaving if that is what your ultimate decision is. It would be one thing if your WW had been struggling with this bipolar disorder and trying to manage it -- with YOUR knowledge.....but all of this crap has been kept hidden from you. Go back and re-read your first posts. Your perception was that she had been an awesome, ideal wife for the past 10 years.....and you have discovered that everything you *knew* to be true, isn't.

Again to drive home my point.....it is not as if a diagnosis was *just found out* and you look at her with disgust and run away. She has KNOWN about this and she KEPT IT from you (along with a LOT of other things). She has been (or was supposed to be) taking medication to manage this disorder. I'm going to assume that you had no idea about any of it. If you ultimately decide to leave, you will have nothing to feel guilty about.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

(posting again because we cross-posted)
Your wife's involvement to this point seems very passive.

From reading what you wrote while I was taking a ridiculous amount of time crafting my response....I get the feeling that your WW's IC was put in an uncomfortable position. I'm getting the feeling that the IC was very uncomfortable that your WW put him in the position of being the middleman. He, most likely, knows that SHE is the one who should be providing you with the information you are seeking and he may have been feeling pretty *icked out* that HE was the one who was being made to do these reveals.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

double post

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 10:00 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

gonnabe, I had that same gut reaction as he was talking with me. Thank you for making it clear to me that my gut was correct.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, March 28th (Friday)

Hey Stu buddy I'm sorry to hear about what has apparently transpired in your marriage. I don't know how you're doing with this buddy but please hang in there. I know I'm thinking about you Stu all the time. Please keep coming back and posting updating. It will help you tremendously too. Hope to hear from you soon buddy.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, March 28th (Friday)

Stu,

As tragic as your story has been, as it unfolded, I still can't help but think that your wife is trying to communicate to you....it is just in her fucked-up ability to do so.

I also agree with gonnabe's assessment of her being passive---to a certain extent. Your wife still has no clue on how to be open with you.

But she isn't shutting you out. Giving you full access...willingly...to her psych doctor, is one example of that.

I think that it is really going to come down to what you can mentally handle. You are going to learn more heartbreaking information, as you delve deeper. My guess is that you are about 75% of the way there. Do you have it in you to dig for the last 25%?

I don't think that there is a wrong answer at this time. If you want out, you are more than welcome to do that with a clean conscience---your WW's prior actions have seen to that. But you seem to be holding out for a possible happy future together, and I don't see anything wrong with that. You are still getting cooperation---although it is still mixed with lies and half-truths. That is better than many members get here. And if you are willing to keep trying, then who are we to tell you otherwise? Now, if your wife was uncooperative, and shutting you out....that would be a different story.

It's your call. It always has been. But you can't forget to put yourself first. You have to continue working on finding the "old" Stu.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, March 29th (Saturday)

Itís a very eerie feeling to know, that strangers know more about you, your wife, your marriage, and your life, than you do! These threads of insight, posted by intelligent concerned people are beginning, finally, to ring TRUE!
Yesterday my wife and I had another one of our long emotional talks, but this time it was at her psychiatristís office. She was emotionally distraught, almost hysterical as she told me things that her doctor had told me would be difficult for her to talk about. She told me that the many physical relationships she had were just that, physical. Like the ones she had with the fathers of some of our childrenís friends. They were contacts with men that had no emotional connections with her at all. When she was in one of her moods (manic) she felt worthless and felt being abused and debased by her lovers proved ďshe was a piece of shit.Ē Her attachment to that Adonis guy was one of those relationships. She said he enjoyed the ďdepravity they shared.Ē Her contacts with him proved to her, she was worthless. They street drugs they shared just seemed to be part of that relationship. The ďmore out of itĒ she was just seemed to encourage him more. She said there were times he shared her with a friend or two. It was about here I told her and her doctor I needed to have her stop. She said that one of those times occurred on our first anniversary together; this was just a few months after our first child was born. Back then she had told me that she couldnít be home because of work, and that the business trip would take a few days. This contact with him continued for years. She added that for her it was like going to the bathroom, something you have to do; many times it was just for the drugs only.
Her doctor asked if I was ok, I told him NO. He said heíd call my pharmacy and prescribe something for me, if I wished and we could continue tomorrow. I told him Iíd call him. I left and went home and cried. There was much more she told me, but itís extremely painful for me to even think about right now.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Ciao_Bella
Member
Member # 9952
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, March 29th (Saturday)

OMG Stu, I'm so sorry for the pain you are going through.


Me (BS)Divorced from WS. He was diagnosed NPD by two Psychologists. He continued his affair with married OW for 13 years until he died in Oct 2011.

Two sons; 29 & 27 years old; I'm remarried


Posts: 365 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Michigan
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, March 29th (Saturday)

Stu, I'm very sorry for what you are having to deal with right now. I am also fearful of what the future Revelations will bring.

we are still here. We still have your back!


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:28 AM, March 30th (Sunday)

Stu,

On this current path, I believe that it is ultimately going to come down to (2) factors:

(1) Will you be able to work past the atrocities and betrayals of your WW?

and

(2) Will your WW ever have the capacity to love you like you deserve?

Again, I know I am beating a dead horse, but she is trying to communicate. It is just that she is so damaged, that repair(at least to an acceptable extent) may prove impossible. Especially that you have now discovered that there was no "pre-marriage bad girl vs. post-marriage good girl" anymore. The betrayals have been continuous and never-ending. But that decision doesn't need to be made today...unless you want out.

5454 continues to remind you to work on yourself. I can't stress that enough. I think that if you look back from your first post, you will see that:

--You felt compelled to ask your wife to marry you, over the phone, when she said that she was going to hook up with a guy. And you knew her propensity to sleep with men right away.
--You were certain that your wife was faithful from the moment of engagement. That she was now a changed person.
--You were certain that the OM was your best friend. He was probably your "closest ally" up until a few weeks ago.
--You were unaware of your WW's frequency(or infrequency) with her psychiatric doctor...during your entire marriage.

By know means is the above meant to be insulting. But these are important topics to discuss with your IC in building back a healthier, stronger Stu. Your mental health is paramount right now, and you need to keep focus on that. You have been dealt enough trauma to last several lifetimes...and the hits keep coming. So if nothing else, PLEASE take care of yourself. You have come very far, and you sure as hell have my admiration.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, March 30th (Sunday)

We met again at her doctorís office. Surprisingly I was feeling OK. All the actions of my wifeís were not my fault, nor hers, to a degree; sheís mentally ill. She rambled on with many more disgusting bits of information about the things she has done, sexual and non-sexual. She said that she was sorry for the torment caused by her to me and our family. That she felt she was unable to tell me the truth without her doctor present, thatís why weíre here. She filled in the details of her involvement with my former BF. She said that her sexual relationship with him started in high school and continued on and off for years; even while she and I dated and after our marriage. She said the story about her first pregnancy was partially true. He (my BF) was the father of that child. They had agreed that neither was ready for a family and she did go to NYC to give it up for adoption; but she was very upset and remorseful she gave their baby away. She didnít see him after the birth and got heavily into street drugs and prostitution; thatís how she wound up in Puerto Rico (she speaks Spanish); she continued her street activity there. She did get pregnant in PR but had a miscarriage, first month. A girlfriend had taken her to the hospital because of bleeding, she called by BF from there and they reconnected.
She said that once my BF found out I was dating her, he was always around. The fact that we were close friends didnít hurt. We would double date, heíd join us if he didnít have a date, heíd hang out at our apartment, weíd go to the community pool with him, heíd accompany us on many short vacations; everywhere we went, he tagged along, or we went with him. After we were married the same pattern continued. He come over after work and stayed for dinner, heíd be at our place on the weekends or weíd go to his. My wife and he would go to cultural events together, I didnít like those things. Even though he was my BF, Iíd complain to my wife that we never had time to ourselves. She always defended him. There were weekends that he slept over in the guest bedroom; even during the week. After he got married my wife and I would visit him at his home. It was my wife who would drag us to his place. This continued even after the children were born. It was so common, it was just part of our life; I thought nothing of it after a while. Remember he was my BF, like a brother to me (family).
She said she needed him for support and would see or call him when she was feeling a change in her body emotionally (depression). After I got my apartment she called him and he was on his way to see her when the car accident happened.
Since you were at your new apartment, we were going to meet at the xxxxxxx motel; thatís why her girlfriend was originally called to baby sit, she said. She said, she had stopped taking her meds around the time she spoke to his wife about their relationship and was getting very depressed. She said that she hasnít acted out with anyone for a few years and has been faithful to me.
Regarding the paternity of the children, she has no idea who the biological father is and she again apologized and said it is despicable that she did this to me and us. She added, "Your the only man who really loved me unconditionally.Ē If I wanted a paternity test, it was ok with her.
As I said, I think Iím OK. I know what my options are, I have choices. I realize she is sick mentally. Can I deal with it, I donít know? If she had cancer, TB, or any disease, Iíd be there for her. So why not for this? The deal breaker might probably be the results of the paternity test. I have another IC coming up, will talk it out there.
If this is really the truth, even her doctor wonít guarantee it, I asked privately. Her stories keep changing, may be she doesnít know the truth any more. But as I said, I have options and time.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, March 30th (Sunday)

We would double date, heíd join us if he didnít have a date, heíd hang out at our apartment, weíd go to the community pool with him, heíd accompany us on many short vacations; everywhere we went, he tagged along, or we went with him. After we were married the same pattern continued. He come over after work and stayed for dinner, heíd be at our place on the weekends or weíd go to his. My wife and he would go to cultural events together, I didnít like those things. Even though he was my BF, Iíd complain to my wife that we never had time to ourselves. She always defended him. There were weekends that he slept over in the guest bedroom; even during the week. After he got married my wife and I would visit him at his home. It was my wife who would drag us to his place. This continued even after the children were born. It was so common, it was just part of our life; I thought nothing of it after a while. Remember he was my BF, like a brother to me (family).
She said she needed him for support and would see or call him when she was feeling a change in her body emotionally (depression). After I got my apartment she called him and he was on his way to see her when the car accident happened.


Wow. That's cake-eating at its worst that I have heard.

All I can say is that a good relationship is built on trust. I think it comes down to if you can ever trust her again. You've just uncovered a mountain of lies and managed deceit that would make the KGB green with envy.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 553 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
hobbeskat
Member
Member # 38805
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, March 30th (Sunday)

Please do not let her excuse her actions through mental illness. It is not an excuse. She was aware of what she was doing. It sounds like she has some real deep seated issues but all of this was a CHOICE.

Posts: 308 | Registered: Mar 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, March 30th (Sunday)

Regarding the paternity of the children, she has no idea who the biological father is

What kind of wife would ever do that to a faithful, loyal supportive husband? She has free will and deliberately made decisions that would give other men the chance of fathering her children and you the job of bringing up these children. This is contempt and disrespect for you of the highest level. Its possible all the babies she has borne in her life have been fathered by the OM. Thats a very strong emotional connection.

There were weekends that he slept over in the guest bedroom; even during the week.

You can also bet she was sneaking off to his room to have sex while you were sleeping nearby. Just a few days ago she was going to meet him in a motel for sex and had it not been for a very fortuitous car accident she would have screwed him.

IMHO you should tell her the only chance of reconciliation would be if both the kids were yours and then get them tested.
Bear in mind she feels very sorry for you, but her treacherous heart belongs to sleezeball BF.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, March 30th (Sunday)

After much thought, I'm going forward with testing. As soon as I get results I'll post it. I need to know one way or the other. If I just burry my head in the sand, I know it will destroy me; the uncertainty! Whatever the results, Iíll have to live with it (if negative) and find a way to cope. Then I can make decisions regarding my wife and our connection to each other. A friend of mine who works at a well-known lab as a cytotechnologist told me his lab also does this testing; he said it might be possible if he asks, to fast track it through. He got me the packaging I needed,and I gave him the samples I took today; he's turning them in tomorrow. Thank you for all the guidance about paternity testing. I told my children I was doing an ancestry search about them. One of you suggested this approach. Thanks.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
frankier
Member
Member # 33901
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, March 30th (Sunday)

STU - Sorry about how your situation developed.

I just wanted to offer a word of advice about the DNA test and make sure that you avoid any possibility of tampering or mishandling.

I hear you that you gave the samples to your friend to be tested. HOWEVER, I would just run a parallel testing via a conventional procedure, that is mail it in a lab without anyone you or your wife know touching it.

I know it sounds extreme, but with everything that has happened to you and your story, you never know.

Regardless, I hope that you and your kids get through this with as little damage as possible. I know you already know that the kids are just innocent by-standards... hopefully, they will not become collateral damage.

Best of luck to you.


Me BS 48
Her WS 39
DDay 7/5/10 1/yr EA/PA
DS1 12 DS2 8

Posts: 117 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: ChiLand
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, March 30th (Sunday)

Thank you for your concern. This friend doesnít know my wife, he has never met her. He is a professional friend I met a few years ago and we hang out a few times a month with other friends who donít know my wife either (Of course with her track record, Iím joking!). The packaging was sealed by me and I had to write my signature over the sealing security tape. I have confidence it will not be tampered with. Thanks again.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:54 PM, March 30th (Sunday)

She said that she hasnít acted out with anyone for a few years and has been faithful to me.

The problem with her saying this is that it really just doesn't mean much since all parties involved know that all she had to do was snap her fingers and your BF would be there. Her faithfulness doesn't mean too much when it is packaged with a go-to 'back-pocket' guy.


Since you were at your new apartment, we were going to meet at the xxxxxxx motel; thatís why her girlfriend was originally called to babysit,

Well this explains why your wife was called to the hospital and HIS wife either wasn't called or chose not to go.
Your WW's decision to meet up with your BF at a motel on the very day that you left your family home because of the devastation that she brought into your life is reason enough to hefty-bag her shit.
Your WW is going to need a LOT of intensive therapy before she is able to be any semblance of a *safe* person for you.....and honestly, I'm not sure that she'll be able to do it. Maybe it is just your writing style, but she seems very complacent. She'll provide you explanations when you ask a question and she'll apologize. But I'm not seeing the "omg, I'm so sorry that I've been so horribly deceptive and taken total advantage of your kindness and love"-type of awareness from her. The fact that she has not been burning her shrink's phone up since the revelation is NOT a good sign. Is she embracing her diagnosis and committing to taking her meds religiously? Is she on the computer researching her diagnosis and trying to find information and ways to manage it so that she can be a *safe* person?

My impression of your WW is that she is with you because you offer her stability and security and she knows that you have her back. When you started this thread, you were under the impression that she had been a faithful wife (and if you recall, I expressed my doubts about that based on the other stuff you had written).....and you know now differently. My question is, though, what has she REALLY given to you? What has SHE brought to the table? Nothing but illusory bullshit. she has portrayed herself to you as someone who she's not.

I have dealt with the *long-con*, and a (now)stbx who has some pretty serious FOO issues and, most likely, some type of 'diagnosis'. I remained in that marriage for too long after Dday because of the marriage vows that I took. The problem is that the marriage vows are meant for people who are acting with the good-faith intention of remaining true to them, they are not meant to hold someone hostage in a situation that is abusive. "In sickness and in health" doesn't mean that just because she's bipolar and has had an ongoing relationship with your BF that you are just supposed to 'suck it up.' (I'm reallyhaving a hard time with the fact that your WW arranged a meeting with BF when you moved out....)

I am glad that you chose to do the paternity test. Having that kind of question hanging over your head would just be too hard. Some people can do it (but I don't know how). What you HAVE to remember is that YOU are the only dad those kids have known. You ARE *dad*. I'm crossing my fingers that the results come back and show that you are bio-dad.



"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:27 AM, March 31st (Monday)

Thank you for your blunt, frank words. They DO ring true and give me much to think about especially after my meeting with my BFís wife.
Your words:
My impression of your WW is that she is with you because you offer her stability and security and she knows that you have her back. When you started this thread, you were under the impression that she had been a faithful wife (and if you recall, I expressed my doubts about that based on the other stuff you had written).....and you know now differently. My question is, though, what has she REALLY given to you? What has SHE brought to the table? Nothing but illusory bullshit. She has portrayed herself to you as someone who she's not.
I have dealt with the *long-con*, and a (now)stbx who has some pretty serious FOO issues and, most likely, some type of 'diagnosis'. I remained in that marriage for too long after Dday because of the marriage vows that I took. The problem is that the marriage vows are meant for people who are acting with the good-faith intention of remaining true to them, they are not meant to hold someone hostage in a situation that is abusive. "In sickness and in health" doesn't mean that just because she's bipolar and has had an ongoing relationship with your BF that you are just supposed to 'suck it up.
It was the disclosure by her that my BF was on the way to her when he had the car accident that pushed me over the edge. I have loved this woman as she said ďunconditionallyĒ and was willing to work things out. Today I was thinking about resuming my relationship with her. Tonight Iím not. I met with my former BFĒs wife, now separated.
She told me more details about my wifeís sexual encounters with her soon to be ex. She told me she found e-mails between the two of them that were incriminating. She accessed his work computer using the special password she knew so she could read his mail and documents. She used to be his secretary when they started dating; he never changed the password. Apparently he and my wife have been screwing each other right up to the present. She swore to me she hadnít been fooling around for years; all lies. His wife said that about 8 weeks ago they were in Michigan, somewhere near Saginaw; where ever the hell that is. She said he told her he was on a business trip. He called her from there to say the weather wasn't good and he would be delayed. My wife had contacted me with the same story. The e-mails from my wife confirmed she would meet him at some hotel near there. When I checked my wifeís business schedules, she was away on those dates on business also. His wife said there were other e-mails and she showed me copies of them. They confirmed the two had physical contact on a number of other occasions; some of it read like cheap porn. She and I looked at each other and began to laugh. She said she was through with him; he had apparently been fooling around with other woman as well as my wife. She was taking her children and moving out of state, back to where her family lived. I told her Iím done also! I was willing to forgive, but there must be trust, itís not there. I'm going to wait for the DNA results before I do anything.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
annb
Member
Member # 22386
Default  Posted: 1:44 AM, March 31st (Monday)

(((Stu))) I am so sorry.

I had a gut feeling that the A never ended when you wrote about her meeting him after the car accident.

Hang in there, all of this sucks, but you now know your wife has continued to lie, even at the psychiatrist's office.


Posts: 7591 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Northeast
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, March 31st (Monday)

Stu .... WOW ... Buddy hang in there your wife has never been your wife.... She is a very sick person. On this level of evil betrayal. she has no way of getting out of this crap she has put you through. I really don't think you can make up a story so evil. Cold disturb sick woman I don't understand why she didn't just stay with him. She wouldn't have to go through all this bullshit. unfortunately you have got to get away from her. She didn't just hurt you. she did shit to you wouldn't even to an enemy. Seriously this woman or whatever she is (satan) I don't know what she was thinking that this was not going to blow up like it did. As for your BF he's got nothing coming. Best thing you could do. Act like he never even existed. He is dead to you. What a piece of shit. What's his excuse ( he needs to stay away form your whole family) but they won't..!!!
good luck buddy and keep posting

[This message edited by trojan007 at 6:41 AM, March 31st (Monday)]


Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, March 31st (Monday)

My marriage lasted 10 years with a woman who has cheated on me with guys I knew personally as well as one night stands over the 10 years. Her deception was worthy of an Academy Award for her portrayal of the loving, faithful, nurturing wife. Why did she marry me? Gonnabe2016ís explanation is probably close
Ö that she is with you because you offer her stability and security and she knows that you have her back.
I did, she had it all. She was living two lives at the same time; the mother and wife, and the free swinging sexually perverted party girl. It was for a specific reason I began posting almost a month ago and it led (with the suggestions of my friends here) to the discovery my wife was not who she pretended to be.
I called her cell phone this morning to talk with her since she didnít come home last night. But she didnít answer; her Adonis boyfriend did. I realized the ďLion KingĒ is right, there is a circle. My original posting started with her sleeping with him when I proposed marriage and is ending with him; what a coincidence. I guess she felt like being abused, thatís why sheís with him. She had said that when she felt worthless she slept with him, because he made her feel like shit; she is sick and Iím sorry I canít help her. I guess sheís off her medís again?
I didnít sleep last night, but spent hours trying to open her laptop. I went through names and terms until I found the password. Boy did I hit the jack pot; my lawyer will have a field day with all the documentation. She still kept a diary; itís all on the computer.
Question: Is this stuff usable by my lawyer if I got it without her permission?
The paternity test samples were turned in at 6:00 this morning. How many days till I find out?
Thank you all for the advice.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, March 31st (Monday)

Question: Is this stuff usable by my lawyer if I got it without her permission?

Is that laptop also yours? If so, communal property.

Now that you're starting to get a little fire of anger brewing, please also consider turning in this adonis a-hole. That quack needs to no longer practice medicine with the kind of "ethics" he operates under. Surely, there are criminal charges ready to be filed. I think some detectives need to talk to your WW on that matter. All at your reasonable pace and capability, of course.

I think your decision for the paternity test was a good one. More so because of the medical history reasons. My thought on this is regardless if they were no your bio-children, I would fight for full custody. You were their father since birth. They only know you as their dad. Your WW is an absolute basket case, and your BF and ado-douche is clearly unfit for the responsibility.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 553 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, March 31st (Monday)

Oh my God ... Really she with him... I can not believe her. She just didn't come home and Why would that asshole answer her phone..? To through it in your face man. He is a real POS I hope you let BS know everything. What did she expect comes home tonight hi honey what's for dinner. She has to know that he answered her phone.(evil) I feel so sad for you buddy. I don't understand why people are so sick that they get off by hurting others. I have got to know what her excuse or twisted story will
Be concerning this new event that has just transpired hours ago. Extremely sorry for your pain that your wife apparently does not give a shit that she continues cause, extremely selfish self-centered.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
Hopetosurvive98
Member
Member # 33842
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, March 31st (Monday)

stu-I just read this entire thread. I cannot express how truly horrible this is and I want to offer you support.
In my experience I received texts and emails from the MOW BH and my lawyer readily excepted them and said nothing about how they were obtained. I also obtained emails on my own by snooping. My lawyer took all the evidence happily and told me to keep it coming. I do believe there probably are some laws about this but if you are on the account or own the computer I would be certain you have the right to be using those devices. Contact your attorney to be sure and start protecting yourself.

As Jduff also said-Stu regardless of paternity fight for custody of your children. They are yours no matter what. You have been there since birth and you are the only father they have known. Fight for them, you should how zero trouble proving your WW unfit to have custody. You WW is a mess and her mental illness and atrocious behavior is not going to stop and the damage done to your children in her care will be devastating. I cannot imagine the pain for them if they lost you-you are the only stable person they have.

I am usually all for R if it is possible by two committed parties. Your wife isnt even remotely capable of R. She is fully engaged even at this very moment in deviant behavior and doesnt at all appear to be committed to her own mental health. I am so sorry but a life of continuing down this path would be too much to bear. Gather your evidence and start looking to a better, happier future. I am so sorry.


Me: BS 36
Him:WS 36
DDay 9/8/11, 3yr LTA
Her: super classy coworker, 44, involved in many A's including several other coworkers.

Posts: 422 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: The beautiful south
twisted
Member
Member # 8873
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, March 31st (Monday)

stu,

I appreciate your attitude in try to do everything possible, but I going to be blunt. In my opinion, you're trying to fix a pathological liar, serial cheater, and master manipulator. It can't be done.
She's playing you, and probably others including her shrink, and the multitudes of OM, like a concert violinist.
She's telling all exactly what they want to hear, then doing exactly whatever she pleases with no real consequences. It seems everyone is letting her make and chances the rules at will. This will not end well.
IMHO, this cannot be fixed, only endured.
Face the reality that the sooner this is over the better. Good luck.


"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

Posts: 911 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Oklahoma
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, March 31st (Monday)

Please tell the wife of Adonis...tell her everything.

Stu...I really have no words. The level of betrayal you are dealing with is staggering.

Stay strong.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Losconang15
Member
Member # 42544
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, March 31st (Monday)

Holy shit. She has the nerve to not only go back to him but also allow for him to pick up the phone. That's the biggest slap in the face for you I'm sure. I'm so sorry. She's a horrible human being. Horrible! That's more then her being mentality sick that's evil.

Please inform his wife and yes report him and his malpractice. He SHOULD NOT be a dr.


Together - 14 years
Married - 7 years
DDay- Jan 15, 2014. WH had EA/PA

Hopeful reconciliation.


Posts: 78 | Registered: Feb 2014
nekonamida
Member
Member # 42956
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, March 31st (Monday)

Dear Stu,

I've been reading through your thread the past couple days and finally registered just to let you know that I lend my support. I was very suspicious of your WW's first recounts of her tales and I had a bad feeling right away there was going to be so much more to your story. I'm sorry you had to go through this especially since your only fault was loving someone who betrayed you on so many levels. I'm very familiar with what bipolar does to people from both a clinical and personal stand point and though hypersexuality is a part of it, it can be managed with therapy and meds. Your wife was not managing it very well at all and was actively deceitful to you about it and so many other things. Even if her actions are fueled by a mental disorder, it's entirely on her to manage it appropriately so that it does not destroy your trust in her and your marriage like it did. It sounds like she's been justifying her actions for over a decade as "not really her" and blaming her actions on the disorder is causing her to keep repeating the pattern as you can see with further lies and infidelity on top of what has already been done. It's shocking to say the least.

I fully endorse that what you do is up to you. Your capacity to love and forgive would have to be much greater than mine to pursue R with your WW. I only hope you know that no one would blame you from walking away right now and that you absolutely deserve better than the sham of a marriage she has given you. Being a good mother to her children is the bare minimum. It's not something anyone is passing out gold stars for and it doesn't change there was one thing she horribly failed at - being a good wife to you. The road to recovery for her will be very long and hard and seeing as she's with the OM already it smacks of further transgressions and disappointments that you should not have to go through again. Think very carefully about how much more you can handle and weighing the likelihood that she will have relapses resulting in further cheating during R.

As for your children, I truly hope there is some light at the end of the tunnel and both turn out to be yours but given the time line I've pieced together reading your posts, your chances are not stellar when it comes to your first son. Know that if you do go down the path of D, your WW will have a period of darkness before she picks herself back up and moves on from this mess hopefully for good this time. I would be super vigilant if I were you about drug use and who she would be bringing around your children and I can PM you details to look for if you would like. Outing her past and present drug use to your lawyer and pushing for full custody at least for a little while immediately after D has started would be a good idea. That is something to ask your lawyer about.

Stay strong and remember that more people than those posting even are on your side and want to see you survive this tragedy.


Posts: 101 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, March 31st (Monday)

Question: Is this stuff usable by my lawyer if I got it without her permission?

Even if you can't use it in court, you very likely can use it for leverage. And since marital assets are community property, my argument would be that it was my computer, too, unless it is a company owned computer.


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4145 | Registered: Sep 2005
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, March 31st (Monday)

Your wife just doesn't care what you think as long as there are men around to physically desire and comfort her. It could be she told you all of her past lurid history hoping you would divorce her and she could hook up with her soulmate BF.

I think that is her ultimate objective; to divorce you, marry BF and bring up their[?] children. Obviously there would be a extra spice from Adonis lover if your BF wasn't available. I wonder if BF knows what he's getting himself into? She is a true dyed in the wool sl*t.

You really need to divorce no matter what the DNA tests reveal.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, March 31st (Monday)

OK now, I did something I swore I wasn't going to do, I called my former BF and had a long (controlled anger) conversation with him. Iím still putting my thoughts together about what he told me. When I have digested the things he said, Iíll be back.

Thanks for your support.


Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, April 1st (Tuesday)

Hey buddy have you talked to your WW since your phone was answer dr. dickhead, please do everything you can to get this guy in as much trouble as possible he has it coming to him. We've got to hear what her excuse is going to be about that situation. For her to let him answer the phone is really sick thing she did you. Think about your handling this well I would have been jailed. Please keep us informed

Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, April 1st (Tuesday)

Stu, hey buddy, we still have your back. I understand your need to get as much information as possible, but you really need to consider the sources. Obviously, she is going to lie to you because, well that's all she knows how to do. Your XBF is going to color all the information he gives you in order to put himself in the best light.

strength brother.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, April 1st (Tuesday)

You know...I keep thinking about that conversation you had with your buddy at his place..when he smiled at you and asked if your WW "still does that thing in bed." In light of what you now know..he was clearly mocking you.

I wouldn't ask your ex-friend one damn thing. Your WW may be mentally ill...but him? He's not. He was deliberate in his actions. Nothing he says means jack shit.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
annb
Member
Member # 22386
Concerned  Posted: 9:17 AM, April 1st (Tuesday)

Your ex-friend, like your wife, is a liar. Keep that in mind when you are trying to digest your conversation with him. He is a liar.

Posts: 7591 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Northeast
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

This thread has not been easy to write. I realize over the last month Iíve laid my life out for public scrutiny. That was easy to do. I had a specific question and delusions about what my life had been, not what it was. Then it evolved as the lies became evident. Now that I can see clearly the deceit, the truth is painful. My wife is sick and her illness has sucked us, my children and me, into her crazy manic world of drugs, sexuality and other abnormal behaviors. No matter what direction our lives take, my children and I, she will always, to some degree be involved with us.
As the mother of my children, I felt an obligation to at least make an attempt to help her; now partially aware of what her mental health issues are. Calling the one person I believed, who really knew her, was a direction I thought I should take; my former BF. As it turned out it was a mistake. He was no help and is no better than that Adonis scum.
Learning that my wife spent the night screwing a guy sheís had a physically abusive relationship with in the past, it compelled me to do something. I contacted my former BF, who has had a long history with her to find out what he knew and if he could assist in helping her. I told him she was with Adonis now, and if he really cared he should do something about it. He said she has been seeing him on and off for years. He had tried, but there is something that keeps drawing her to this guy, especially when sheís off her medication and manic. I said what about going to his wife. He said they donít live together as husband and wife, they just live in the same house; she doesnít give a dam about him. He was screwing co-workers and she found out and about all the other women he was screwing. He said that, I as her husband should find out about putting her into a hospital for treatment (I have, itís not easy).
I asked about their relationship and why he didnít tell me about it when he found out I was dating her. He said, ďHis relationship with her went back to high school, and it grew into just casual sex, the romance died almost at the beginning. Sheíd FÖk anything with paints; for drugs, money, a place to sleep, or the fun of it; especially after high school graduation.Ē He said he cared about her and has tried to get her help (he did get her into rehab once), but when she gets into her ďmoodĒ, she just wouldnít listen especially when sheís off her meds.
He said he was sorry about everything, but ďtheir relationship turned into a thing over the years. When she needed comforting sheíd come to him to talk and then they would have sex. Then the sex was just what they did. Because of their connection she would do anything to please him without question or commitment.Ē He liked her needing him and the sex; especially the sex. ďIt was like an on call service 24/7,Ē he jokingly said. ďWhat guy wouldnít want that?Ē He didnít want to give that up; he added, not even for his wife. He and she would get together frequently during his and our marriages. He said, ďShe held our marriage together by being with him. She could be that crazy lady with him and she knew he understood; there werenít any strings, and then the sex.Ē I said youíre no better than that Adonis guy. You were using her! He repeated, ďWe had a thing, who would give that up; the sexĒ, he said again. I told him he was using her as his personal whore! He said, ďNO, I was helping her and you keep your marriage together.Ē (He was supposed to be my BF; family? How could I be so wrong about someone I thought I knew and trusted? How did I get involved with these people?)
We talked a little longer and I asked about paternity, about him and Adonis. He said that the last thing he wanted was another child with her. (She had told me about giving up for adoption that child.) That he was very careful and when he and she were fooling around he would feel for the diaphragm and made sure to use a spermicide. He would think that the Adonis guy would be careful too. My wife was one crazy lady and he knew you needed to be careful and NOT TRUST A THING SHE SAID; especially about birth control. As far as he knew Adonis never fathered any children with the many women he screwed. He said he was the type whoíd cover his ass. After getting that info I was feeling a little better about my paternity. I asked him, if now that he and she were about to be free whatís up for them. He said, ďHe liked the relationship just the way it was; he was there, 24/7 for her.Ē (What he really meant was for him.) It ended with my telling him to get help.
As I said, this wasnít an easy conversation to have. I have spoken with my wifeís psychiatrist and he is going to do medically what he can. My lawyer has been kept up to date with info and has documentation I supplied. I should be hearing from the lab about my paternity soon. Iím feeling good and I'm arranging for counselling for my children if it is necessary.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
alback
New Member
Member # 41336
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

Stu, as I posted earlier, for a story so tragic, you and your wife are unbelievably calm.

It is this calm, along with the facts that do not line up that is beginning to also give me doubts about the validity of this thread.

I mean you have gone from a gut feeling that she may have gone too far with a date, to a story where this same guy has been banging your wife for 10 years, supplying her with drugs, she is doing the fathers of the friends of your kids, doing other guys that the first date guy sets up and has been doing your friend for 10 years too.
She contacts your BF wife before you do, although she already claimed his wife knew earlier. Then immediately upon you spending a night apart, she has arranged to bang you friend again, this time in your own home, but he ends up in hospital. That delay doesn't hold her back, she bangs the Adonis again and you speak with him directly - without stating your reaction to him?

All this coming down, and you are calm. You talk with your BF, not beat the sh_t out him! But you will get back to us with what was said, I mean aren't you seething at that moment?

Nor do you say what your conversation was with the Adonis doctor who answered her phone, or do you do anything at all to this guy. I mean according to you, this guy has done everything possible to make your wife re-visit her supposed past before marrying you - drugs, porn, passing her around for tricks. Yet you do nothing to him, you don't contact his wife, the hospital he works at or your lawyer to seek charges against him.

I mean you are just too damn calm, your wife who hid this for 10 years now flaunts it in your face. Your story has made me think about things that I may not have noticed with my own relationship, but it has become too much for me to actually believe.

If I am wrong, and your story is actually taking place as you claim, then you need to take some serious action to protect yourself and the kids (if you chose them to stay with you). Financially, legally and morally with the A-hole doctor, and your supposed friend who was banging your wife while smiling at you.

Happy trails.


Posts: 32 | Registered: Nov 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

Alback, I have read other posts who question the facts. There is one common denominator, there is a lot of info (crap) in 20 pages of posts and not all of it is read or read correctly. This is a public form that I have poured my emotions into for guidance. All of the friendís comments have been helpful in my arriving at where I am now, even yours. Am I pissed that ten years of my life has been a sham? YES. That I have been lied to by people I trusted? Yes. As an individual who has had to work hard to get to where I am professionally, you need to maintain control of yourself. Maybe itís the way I presented the facts in writing that bothers you (no attack meant). However, writing those posts has helped ME put things in perspective and get the anger out of me. The time it takes me to write this response gives me time to think and work through my grief and anger. I appreciate your comments; they have given me more to contemplate. Right now I am hopeful that the results of the DNA testing will prove that my children are mine biologically. That is where my focus is now. My wife and her problems are behind me and I am looking forward. If the DNA results are not what Iím hoping for, Iíll have to deal with that issue. But right now Iím OK and so are my children.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

Just another thought.
Alback and others, if you donít know anything about bipolar disorder or mental illness please research it. In order for me to come to understand my wifeís issues I had to read and learn a lot. A few pages back a friend explained what her bipolar son went through, it was educational for me and I thank her for that post.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

A key issue that needs to be considered is just what is your wife's respect and feelings for you? A few days ago she went running to the BF and when that didn't pan out she went with Adonis. Presumably she committed further adultery with him.

If you have little value in her eyes and even less respect, what is there to reconcile with? Even if she promised to be faithful from now on, and the kids are yours [fingers crossed], there is nothing but convenience to justify rebuilding the marriage. Certainly not love.

To paraphrase a line from a Supertramp song, your wife's attitude seems to be 'Not much of a husband, never seem to get a lot"
I'm sure you can do better than the future your WW is offering you, particularly with her mental health issues.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

At this point, I don't care what she thinks of me! Iíve lost a lot of sleep and weight since January over what has gone on between her and I, and it's now in the hands of my lawyer. She has moved in with my former BF (not Adonis), will move into my apartment once my stuff is out. In a moment of sanity, she said it would be best for the kids to stay with me in the house. She will see them daily for now. We will work out arrangements later. I spoke with her doctor earlier and he is working on getting her help; but she needs to work with us on this effort. I am using the children as pawns in this right now, if she wants to see them, she has to cooperate.
Those of you with experience, please advise so I can have all my ducks lined up. I donít want any surprises.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

Your former best friend described your WW as a 'crazy lady' yet he allowed her to move in with him? The paternity test is now becoming vital as to who gets custody of the children; the family could end up becoming split if only one of the children is yours.

Rather tacky and tasteless of your wife to move in with BF so soon; apparently she seems determined to build a life with him, but is he just as enthusiastic? He has already admitted he was in it for the sex and marriage is a lot lot more than sex. I see a train wreck on the horizon. I hope you don't bail her worthless ass out when BF puts her out on the street.

Your wife has a bipolar condition by diagnosis; unfortunately she has no value or respect for you and that is what is ending your relationship. The bipolar tendency hasn't caused her think so little of you so its time to move on, hopefully with you getting full custody of your children.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
IWantDoOver
Member
Member # 39440
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

Stu, If you moved out of the family home into an apartment, who is caring for your kids while WW is off her medication(s)?


Peace

Posts: 212 | Registered: Jun 2013
annb
Member
Member # 22386
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

Stu, I am very concerned for you AND your children.

I suggest you meet with a second attorney to get another opinion...your wife IS NOT stable to be parenting right now. She is completely out of control. Find out if there is ANYTHING you can do to get temporary custody of the kids. NOW!

((((Stu & children))))


Posts: 7591 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Northeast
adriana1980
New Member
Member # 41780
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

I have to admit this is one bizzare story with plethora of somewhat unbelievable twists.

Posts: 46 | Registered: Dec 2013
twisted
Member
Member # 8873
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

I have raised an eyebrow over a few things myself, but then again, you haven't met my wife's side of the family.


"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

Posts: 911 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Oklahoma
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

I arrived at our house and the day care person told me my wife would be out for the evening. My wife knew I was stopping over to have dinner with the kids. Thatís why I called her phone, and found out who she was with. The children have never been unsupervised. My former BF doesnít really give a crap about my wife. He may say he does, and lead her on, but he tolerates her long enough to get what he wants from her. He said, she is crazy, and tolerates her for short durations. Itís not my problem.
Thatís why she is moving into my apartment, so she will have her own space. Otherwise she would probably fall back into an old habit (before she knew me) of sleeping with a guy just to have a place to crash (this is according to BF, when we talked).
Part of my discussion with her doctor was to make sure my children are safe. If I thought my safety and my childrenís were in jeopardy I would get a restraining order.
Adrina, your comment,
ďI have to admit this is one bizarre story with plethora of somewhat unbelievable twists,Ē
is correct. I have read and re-read this entire post a few times just to remind myself of the personal hell Iím living. Most of what I wrote came from her narratives to me which kept changing as we pushed closer to whatever the hell the real truth might be. My BF truths also kept changing. Her account of things at the psychiatristís office also changed. I was living in complete ignorance, with those rose colored glasses on, or blinders, keeping me from seeing the truth. The only thing Iím sure of is she cheated with a number of men. Everything else is pure hearsay as my lawyer has told me. We have records of bills, phone calls, e-mails and diary entries from the computer as evidence. I donít know if her signing a waiver for her doctor to talk to me allows him to communicate her history to others.
If I were to delete the fantasies she told me we might wind up with only a few pages. For example, I took at face value her story about being used in a tug of war in Puerto Rico. As illogical as it sounded, I went with it. I had no reason to doubt her, even if it sounded ridiculous.
My friend from the lab said the DNA results might be ready soon, Iím extremely nervous.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Stu,
I apologize if you've already stated this, but, what is the point of the paternity test? You raised these kids, they are your children. I don't think finding out paternity should matter. It will only add further complications to an already complicated situation. Can you stick the results in an envelope and read it six months from now?
In the past week your wife has had sexual relations with two men. Not one. TWO.
File for divorce and work on you and your kids. There's no way they aren't being impacted by all of this so you should probably get them into therapy as well.
Uncomplicate your life. Kick her to the curb. Give your kids some stability and if she gets the help she needs and gets better in a year you could consider reconciliation then. But for now I would suggest you take control back and simplify your life.

[This message edited by cliffside at 9:12 AM, April 3rd (Thursday)]


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Cliffside, your advice and another thread I just read has convinced me, to not look at the results, at least for now. My disgust at my wife and her lovers and possible fathers of one or both of my children terrifies me. That I might reject them as MY children. I love them immensely and they are innocent bystanders in all of this. The idea that they might not be mine biologically scares me. I know what my former BF told me about birth control use with my wife, but he has lied to me so often I can't trust what he says. I don't want to transfer my anger to them; I'm all they have. I knew I could not deal with a negative paternity answer right now. I asked my friend to put the results in his safety deposit box at his bank. When Iím ready Iíll get it, or my children can when theyíre older, and better able to deal with it. I have arranged for counseling for them if needed. The right people at their school have been notified of the coming divorce. If there are other things I need to do, please advise.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Man, I am so sorry that you are going through this. I wish I knew the right things to say.

I believe that your current path is a wise one---that of simplification. Remove the erratic circumstances(WW) away from the innocent and betrayed(you and the children).

I have said all along, that I believe that your WW was trying...in her screwed up ways...of communicating with you. I still believe that to be true to a certain point. But with all the new evidence, which really shows that your WW NEVER CHANGED HER ABHORRENT WAYS OF THE PAST, it looks like your WW is not looking for help. Just the fact that she went on as quick of a path of marital destruction the second that you left the house, goes to show how bad she is.

If there is ever the analogy of the oxygen masks in the airplane, this is it. You have to put on yours...RIGHT NOW...and put on your kids immediately afterwards. Everything else can wait. And once you and the kids are safe and stable, THEN you could revisit dealing with your WW. But as of this moment, she really is secondary...as selfish as that may sound.

Good luck. You really have been through the wringer. Hopefully, some good news will soon come your way.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 4:35 AM, April 4th (Friday)

So have you talk to her at all since the night she went to the hospital with your BF. Wow Stu you are handling this situation very well. Hold your head up high buddy. Not one of these people (evil people) that are part of the situation couldn't even come close to you as a well functioning father husband bestfriend. All three of them have got to be the most fucked up individuals I have ever heard about. Really your wife your best friend and that Adonis asshole, Are some really sick individuals that anybody could come across. Keep being strong for your kids and yourself. Keep us posted buddy i'm just dying to hear what she's got to say.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, April 5th (Saturday)

After everything that has happened with my family; this afternoonís incident is going to scare my son for years. My wife had given my children a key to her apartment so they could stop in if needed on the way home from school. When they walk home they pass her apartment. Today he was at the park near her apartment and school playing. He saw her car on the way home and figured he'd stop in for some food and see her. To make this short,he heard her screaming when he unlocked the door and saw Adonis on top of her. He thought she was being hurt and called 911 from his cell phone. The police arrived a few minutes later. I was called took him home and tried to explain what had happened. I also called my wifeís psychiatrist and he told me to bring my son right over to his house. Iím home now with both my children and my son is still shaking. F..k her! I donít think I belong here anymore? This has gone well past, Just Found Out!

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, April 5th (Saturday)

Jesus my brother. I am so sorry.

Police report, Dr's report. Lawyer.

These kids may not be yours biologically, but, where else do they have to go? Are you willing?

File a TRO(temporary restraining order) and TPO (temporary protective order). Get her away from the kids.

Are you ok?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:05 PM, April 5th (Saturday)

Continuing to post here is fine.

Your WW will not stop having sex with other men.

File for divorce.....like, NOW.

Mental illness/personality disorder notwithstanding, she is NOT doing a darn thing to attempt to become a 'safe' person for you or her children. It is time to take action to protect yourself and your kids.

What is her side of what happened this afternoon? Did you have any contact with the cops that responded to the incident? Has your WW contacted you about it?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:30 PM, April 5th (Saturday)

Iíve taken the keys from the kids. Iím simplifying this; my son was told that since we are no longer living together as husband and wife that doesnít mean his mom doesnít love him, she does. Since we are not husband and wife she was sharing her love with her boyfriend. That sometimes when we share our love we make funny sounds of happiness. I told him that when his soccer team wins a game, everybody screams. He seemed to understand. He will be seeing the psychiatrist for a while. He knows about sexual relations and babies, but at his age he didnít have to see it. My wife spoke with him at the psychiatristís office. She told me she was sorry about what happened and there was no excuse; she should have secured her door. I told her I was talking to my lawyer about securing the safety of my children. She pleaded that I shouldnít take the children from her. I told her to have her lawyer call mine.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 11:38 PM, April 5th (Saturday)

Gonnabe, the police told me no crime was committed, no report. That this isnít the first time they were called by kids who found their parents having a physical activity. They thanked my son for protecting his mother and calling them, and gave him a plastic police badge. He felt good after they spoke with him. They told me to seek counseling to make sure he was ok.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, April 5th (Saturday)

So having that convo with your son HAD to have sucked. I'm so sorry that she placed you and him in that position.

No, there was no crime committed. I was just wondering about how the scenario played out after your son called 911. I'm glad to hear that the cops that responded acted in a sensitive manner and handled the situation well.

She pleaded that I shouldnít take the children from her. I told her to have her lawyer call mine

Good answer on your part......


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8078 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 3:53 AM, April 6th (Sunday)

Unbelievable buddy I feel so bad for you, and let me tell you one thing you've got some good karma coming your way. Because for someone that doesn't deserve that shit you have been getting abused in all different forms. And you seem like you're handling this horrible situation better than most would. You're my hero.!

I also would like to ask you. if it's okay with you.? So when you found out she was she went to stay with your BF in the hospital. How did that conversation go.? Mostly what did she say i'm just dying to hear against the complete insanity. That would be her! I just would love to hear what she had to say, Did you guys come to an agreement that it's over with your marriage. I think God damn. Was there any dialogue on her part about salvaging the marriage. Or she came to the conclusion that it's over just on her own so she can get back complete selfish and self-centered lifestyle and sick addiction that it's going to be the end of her. Wow someone's looking at you at least. Just think you never knew this was going on

And then I would just love to know how the conversation went with her calling you or whatever happened. Oh by the way I'm sorry I should have secured the door better. Oh my God what about your wife total behavior. No dialogue about what she's actually doing. She's one sick individual. If you feel like it Stu could you please fill us in any of that. And I apologize if I'm Out of line with these questions. Buddy please keep posting and good luck you and your children


Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, April 6th (Sunday)

Here is your chance to gain custody of your children so you don't have to pay child support. Your wife is plainly an unfit mother; former prostitute and town slut. Sue for divorce and with all the crap she has carried out, plus her unstable mental condition, custody should be a breeze. If you don't she will nail your ass to the wall with alimony/CS come divorce time.

Funnily enough, if you do separate/divorce she will have a DNA test done. If the children are not yours she probably feels her chances of full custody are increased if she can prove you are not the biological parent.

Either way you need to stop playing the nice guy and excusing her every transgression. Being bipolar doesn't explain her incredible sexual excesses.



Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, April 6th (Sunday)

Have you gotten pissed off enough to tell Adonis's wife yet??

Shut this shit down.

File. Go for full custody. Even if they aren't biologically yours..they are yours in every single way that matters.

Save yourself.

Save your kids.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
stu23
Member
Member # 42605
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, April 6th (Sunday)

Trojan007 , I may do that when Iím ready to get my anger out by writing about it.
OK now, my lawyer is working on all of that and papers have already been signed by me and will be submitted tomorrow. I did the DNA testing and the results will be in tomorrow, I believe. I donít want to see the results. My friend is putting the envelope in his safe deposit box for now and my lawyer is getting a copy. I told him not to open it under any circumstance. We are to use all other evidence available to win this custody and divorce. If Iím not the biological father I will fall apart and I canít afford to do that right now.
Confused615, Adonisí wife already knows about all of his affairs, heís had many; including the ones with my wife.

Posts: 127 | Registered: Feb 2014
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, April 6th (Sunday)

Stu, your lawyer *may* need to know the biological paternity. Ask him/her. If CSTBXWW decides to fight you on the custodial front it may become an issue. My greatest hope is that she would not choose to fight, but the $$$ from CS may be too attractive to her.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, April 6th (Sunday)

Be careful to avoid seeing blood types as well as DNA results. For instance if both you and your wife were O + and either of the kids were any other blood type. then you could not be the bio dad. Same conclusion if both you and your wife were R- and one of the kids was R+

So avoid documents that may list blood information.
I agree, after what you have endured, parentage is not the issue you need to deal with at this time. As I said before, if your wife thinks she may lose custody she will insist the DNA test is carried out. You might be preemptive and bargain with your WW. You have custody but she sees the kids at least 50% of the time - anything to stop her testing. That would be ideal; keep her happy with the child arrangements but doesn't have custody.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, April 6th (Sunday)

Stu, forgive me, but this has been a very long thread and I guess I've forgotten. But..how do you know Adonis's wife knows? Have you spoken to her?

ETA: I skimmed through and found a post where you said your exBF told you Adonis's wife knows.

Um..STU!!! He is a liar. Nothing he says can be taken as the truth.

He told you they are separated, but still living together....Stu...that is one of the oldest wayward lines there is...

Tell his wife.

This Adonis could very well become a part of your children's lives. He can come and go as he pleases..because his wife thinks he's at work or whatever. He's managed to do it for the ;last 10 years..only now she won't have you around..so he will be around more..and around your kids. He sounds like a sick POS..not anyone I would want around my children..or anyone else's.

[This message edited by confused615 at 10:09 AM, April 6th (Sunday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, April 6th (Sunday)

One thing to keep in mind, your wife may not want custody of the kids. My H's OW let her husband have custody because, duh, she wanted to have her own place where she could f*ck whomever she wanted and not have the responsibility of being a parent. The fact that she so readily walked out, let the kids stay with you, and is actively screwing two men says parenting is not exactly on the top of her priorities right now...

Stay strong. Focus on you and your kids


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
evephoebe1
Member
Member # 36923
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, April 6th (Sunday)

Stu, your children are so blessed to have you. Hang in there. (((hugs)))


Me: Survivor! BS (47)
Him: WH (45)
2 awesome kids, 13 & 16

Posts: 92 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: evephoebe1
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, April 10th (Thursday)

Stu, just checking on you brother. Hope you and the kids are doing okay.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2984 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 3:18 AM, April 11th (Friday)

Dude I hope you're doing alright. Please update us so we know that you're okay. I'll be waiting your from you buddy

Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 5:24 AM, April 11th (Friday)

Stu..you are missed. I hope you're doing ok.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, April 12th (Saturday)

Stu,

Hope that you are doing OK.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
sakitten
New Member
Member # 36075
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

Still wondering what happened to you, Stu. Hope all is well!

Posts: 2 | Registered: Jul 2012
Topic Posts: 430