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Reconciliation
User Topic: What is 3 months out supposed to look/feel like?
flayed
Member
Member # 41875
Concerned  Posted: 10:35 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)

We are now 3 months out from DDay. While my WH is transparent, he is NC with AP, we are in MC and I know many (all?) of the details of the A, in many ways I feel more lost and confused than ever.

This post may be mostly for me to unburden my mind a little.

There are times when I am talking to WH and asking him questions and I can feel him crumpling within himself with pain over what he has done. He is breathing fast, tearing up. I feel compassion and pity for him in that state and let go of my need for answers. I feel bad that my need to understand is causing him so much pain. Then I worry whether he is strong enough to carry on with R or whether he will give up and walk away.

Then there are other times when I would just like to scream at him or kick him in the shins. Like yesterday when he told me that he feels like he is in jail and he is being punished like a naughty teenager. WTF??!! My perspective is radically different!! From my point of view I have given very few consequences for his A. I did not leave or threaten divorce, I did not out him to friends or family, I did not out him at work (which would ruin his career), he is sleeping in the same bed with me, we have had HB, I have not made him get rid of things that have associations with his A, I have not banned out-of-town conferences and I have not told him that he will never again be able to participate in an out-of-town sport that was a rendezvous site during his A (although I would be fully within my rights to demand this if I chose, given the choices he made). All I have asked for is for him to treat me gently and not pressure me about participating in that sporting event or the conferences and give me time to ease back into the idea. I think he is impatient, selfish and feels entitled to his entertainments/outings. He also doesn't understand that a BS can trigger over something even when you are together (I am trying to explain this to him - not sure it has sunk in yet). He seems to think that the problem will be solved by me coming along. No. Better perhaps, but no.

He feels like he is living with lots of consequences because we had to move (he started that process months before DDay so I am not responsible), got a new job with a new organization (also not my doing), has to look at my pain every day and hates himself for being the cause, and just the general and intense shame for the choices he made and putting every aspect of our lives at risk.

I feel so lost and confused and I don't know what to do or how to feel or how to move forward.

Does it often look like this at 3 months out?????


BS(Me)-39
WH-39
Married 13 yrs, Together 19 yrs
4 kids under 8
2 yr LTA
DDay- Oct.29, 2013

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)

Your confusion at 3 months out is normal.

This reaction from a truly remorseful spouse

Like yesterday when he told me that he feels like he is in jail and he is being punished like a naughty teenager.

Is NOT. We are over 6 years out and my husband has never, not once , tried to manipulate me into not talking about the affair.

Your husband needs to realize that he has a long way to go if he wants to save his marriage.

You should not be easing his pain here. He needs to answer everything, and do it with compassion and caring.

It's actually part of his healing too. He needs to know your pain and share it, own it. Making things easier takes away a valuable piece of healing from him. Don't do it.

If he can't handle questions at 3 months out he needs to evaluate if he can handle R.

(((hugs)))


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3807 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Zengirl
Member
Member # 42195
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)

We are on a very similar timeline, and I would say my WH is only just now starting to "get it." Although he has been expressing regret, and has been consistent about NC, transparency, etc, like in your case, the true remorse has been slower in coming. He was still in that very selfish place where his own shame and pain at what he has done overshadowed mine, in many ways. He's getting beyond that now, and truly starting to understand and show remorse. He still has a ways to go, however, in my mind.

As far as my own feelings....I'm still just as up and down and confused as ever. I think the safer I feel in my marriage, the more intensely I'm feeling some of the negative emotions. I wasn't consciously holding back before, but now that WH can help me process things better, things are unexpectedly bubbling to the surface again.

I don't know what's normal, but I feel like I'm in the same boat as you. Hang in there.

[This message edited by Zengirl at 6:00 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)]


Me (BW): 40
Married: 15 years
3 kids
D-Day: 10/13

Posts: 149 | Registered: Jan 2014
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)

Zengirl's got your WH in one sentence:
He was still in that very selfish place where his own shame and pain at what he has done overshadowed mine, in many ways.
Flayed, you're being way too nice to your WH!
I feel compassion and pity for him in that state and let go of my need for answers. I feel bad that my need to understand is causing him so much pain.
It's still all about him, and I'm not sure he's seen the consequences yet. Have you read the stuff on "Co-dependent: A BS's common mistake"? It might be worth a look. Not that I'm saying you're seriously co-depedent, but I think a lot of us BSs have some co-dependent traits. We pride ourselves on being low-maintainence, undemanding. We love our WSs, so it's no skin off our nose if we're nice -- we like being nice! It's who we are! And we expect that it will be returned, because surely our partners understand that this is the deal? The sad part is, no, they don't get it. They get it as an endorsement of their self-centered view of the universe. It's all about them and making their lives good. They take us for granted. (My FWH openly admits now that he did.)
I did not leave or threaten divorce, I did not out him to friends or family, I did not out him at work (which would ruin his career), he is sleeping in the same bed with me, we have had HB, I have not made him get rid of things that have associations with his A, I have not banned out-of-town conferences and I have not told him that he will never again be able to participate in an out-of-town sport that was a rendezvous site during his A
Why? Are you trying to make things easier for him? Well, too bad! START GETTING SELFISH! Luckily, you're ramping up to the Anger Stage (I can hear it beginning already, actually.) This is Good. Because I got to a stage where I didn't give a flying f**k about how bad he felt, because you know what -- this is about ME and how that bastard made ME feel. I did lose it and threaten to leave, and I think that's a good thing. If you don't seriously think about leaving a cheating WH at some point, well... you're not taking cheating seriously enough, or you're not valuing yourself enough. This doesn't mean you can't R. But, as many people have said on here, you have to be in state where you can imagine leaving to really be able to evaluate whether it's really worth trying R with this person.

What if he isn't up to R? What if he isn't up to sacrificing to make you happy? What if you did tell him "Hon, I'm triggering too much. If you go on that weekend with your pals, I will be miserable the whole time. I'd prefer you stayed." What would be his reaction? Do you feel that you could do that? Do you want to be with a person who values his sport over your feelings?

At 3 months out, this is all new. At three months out, I was still sobbing hysterically daily. At three months out, my WH still had his head in his ass and didn't know what had hit him. It's an evolution, and you can't speed it up. It's horrible. I would never want to re-live those days. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

((((flayed))))


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
annb
Member
Member # 22386
What?  Posted: 7:55 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)

Why? Are you trying to make things easier for him? Well, too bad! START GETTING SELFISH
.

^^^This!!! Times Ten!

IMO, your husband has had zero consequences for his actions. Actions have consequences, and you are allowing him to go on with his life as if nothing happened. He will not understand the impact of his A until it alters his life.

At this stage, it's all about you and YOUR needs. He needs to get off the Woe is Me horse, and gently, my friend, need to put your foot down.


Posts: 7547 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Northeast
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)

What is 3 months out supposed to look/feel like?

Fury. Disgust. Hurt. Detachment. Focusing on the self. That is what 3 months looked like for me. F-him and his whining.

There are times when I am talking to WH and asking him questions and I can feel him crumpling within himself with pain over what he has done. He is breathing fast, tearing up. I feel compassion and pity for him in that state and let go of my need for answers. I feel bad that my need to understand is causing him so much pain. Then I worry whether he is strong enough to carry on with R or whether he will give up and walk away.

I think compassion is great at 6 months or a year, if the WS has towed the line. At three months this was an accurate statement in my house -

is being punished like a naughty teenager.

Why wouldn't a WS be in the penalty box? He should be happy to be there in my opinion. Don't get me wrong time moves forward and you need to figure out how the new M will work, which long term should not include that dynamic, but at first he should be happy he is in the house any longer.

On the BH side of things a common expression is you can't love you WW back into the M. I would suggest the same is true for you H. Stupid as stupid does. Act accordingly.

Build yourself. Build your life. Stop looking to him for anything for while. Step back and decide how you want your life to look and then look over at him and see if he is even apart of it anymore. IMO that is the first task for the BS. To figure out if WS is worth the time of day anymore. In order to do that you need emotional distance from him.


take care....



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
stillprettyupset
Member
Member # 41286
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)

We are four months out and not in a very different place from your situation. We have agreed to counseling and actually set up an appointment, but we still are emotional and talks turn rapidly to arguments and rapidly to fights. She surprised me a bit by telling me she had done some thinking and reading... I thought she was just rug sweeping...I need to ask more about her research.

She feels like a prisoner and a watched child, and I agree. I am over that, mostly, since I don''t want to live my life as a part time detective and she will do as she pleases whether I watch or not.
She stills feels that she has a right to privacy so transparency is just fucked.

Thanks to a couple great posts by Aubrie and Blake, I have started looking at my own family issues and coping mechanisms. They are deep as a well and wide as a church door. I don''t even know where to start. I have learned how much I hate ambiguity and that I am a people pleaser...hey, thanks Mom and Dad. Nice parting gifts.

Our post-A actions and hurtful comments have done more damage than anything else. Trust, intimacy, affection have all taken hits and this rollercoaster has shredded almost every belief I ever had about myself and my relationships. It is a dark and dangerous place right now.

So, have a hug and know you aren''t going through it alone.


Me: 42
WW: 36
Latest D-day: Sept 2013
Reconciling? Limbo?

Posts: 96 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: NE Ohio
veronique12
Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, January 29th (Wednesday)

I don't know what things are "supposed" to look like at any stage really, but I can say that being 2 months out, I can relate a lot to that sense of confusion. One day I'm calm (like today) and I can feel loving toward my H and R seems like a real possibility. Another day (actually all of the last 2 weeks) I want to kick H's teeth in, rip out my hair, and run screaming from the house. Sometimes I'm not sure who I'm going to be when I wake up in the morning.

It sounds like your H, flayed, is also oscillating, though his emotions are probably more like guilt, shame, and anger at himself (sometimes displaced onto you). My H goes through this too and when his anger comes up and is directed at me, that's when I start to retreat into what I've come to call the "dark place," that lovely spiral of self-loathing, fear, hate, obsessive thoughts.

Have you guys read any books about coping with A's together? I'm sure you've probably already read After the Affair, but if not I highly recommend, especially for him to understand the nuances of your feelings. My H said he really didn't get the depth of what I was going through until he read it there. And having him approaching an understanding of my pain has been key to me even trying to R.

I agree that you should continue to let him know your feelings about what triggers you and that the R will only work if he honors your needs.

I'm so sorry that we are all having to deal with this and wish I had better answers or could help to ease others' pain. Sometimes I am completely overwhelmed when I think of how long it might take for things to stabilize in my M and for me psychologically, but I have to think that struggling through R will be worth it for the stronger M that could result. And if it doesn't work out, at least I know I tried my best.

Hugs to everyone.


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 498 | Registered: Jan 2014
flayed
Member
Member # 41875
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, January 29th (Wednesday)

karmahappens- WH is not trying to manipulate me into not talking about the affair. He wants me to talk to him. It is my own doing because if I see him suffering deeply my protective instincts kick in.

zengirl - I agree with this

He was still in that very selfish place where his own shame and pain at what he has done overshadowed mine, in many ways.

Blobette -

Have you read the stuff on "Co-dependent: A BS's common mistake"?

Is this a book? I could not find it in the Healing Library.
If you don't seriously think about leaving a cheating WH at some point, well... you're not taking cheating seriously enough, or you're not valuing yourself enough.
I regularly think about leaving, but I don't voice it because I don't want to cry wolf every other day. And, I mostly think about leaving when I am angry, not when I am in a calm state of mind, so I don't want to make decisions just in the heat of the moment.

I did tell him that I would be fully within my rights to never let him go to the sporting events again as a result of his choices and he accepted that. He said I am worth more than that, I am worth more than anything. I still felt that it was a grudging, resentful acceptance though and that he is white-knuckling it.

I am trying to do the balancing act of honoring my feelings of pain, confusion and despair but also recognizing that I don't want to be his jailer or exact punishment as some kind of revenge. I want him to want to be with me, to be free to make his choice. That is why I find it particularly hurtful/ironic/??? that he tells me he feels like he is in jail and being punished when I (for my own needs) have very deliberately tried to stay out of that role. I will be bringing this up in this week's MC session!!!

I am probably not explaining myself very well. My thoughts and feelings are a jumbled mess in my head so I wouldn't be surprised if I am confusing others.

annb-

Actions have consequences, and you are allowing him to go on with his life as if nothing happened. He will not understand the impact of his A until it alters his life.

I can't seem to figure out what consequences he should have (other than the inherent ones for R like NC with AP, transparency, remorse and MC) that would be meaningful for me and that would have long-term benefits for us both.
I feel like a lifetime ban from things he loves to do will not benefit us longterm because he will start to resent me over time. But I do need some time to reacclimate to the idea, plus some coping tools from our MC.

wert-

at first he should be happy he is in the house any longer.

I have said to him that I feel like he was selfish and ungrateful before the A, which led him to have the A, and that he is selfish and ungrateful still. He doesn't seem to see all of the negative actions I might have taken and he should be on his knees with gratitude that I am still here with him, beside him. He thinks he is showing his gratitude, but I don't feel it and feel he is still sorely lacking in the gratitude department.

veronique12-

It sounds like your H, flayed, is also oscillating, though his emotions are probably more like guilt, shame, and anger at himself (sometimes displaced onto you). My H goes through this too and when his anger comes up and is directed at me,

When I feel his anger being displaced onto me I start to fight back and tell him he has no business getting angry with me, his choices created our present situation.

Sigh. I love being able to come here to talk about the craziness in my head (which is often inconsistent/confused/ambivalent) because I feel like the MC sessions are too far apart. It seems like an eternity between the weekly appointments!! I don't have anyone other than my WH and our MC to talk to IRL and that is hard.


BS(Me)-39
WH-39
Married 13 yrs, Together 19 yrs
4 kids under 8
2 yr LTA
DDay- Oct.29, 2013

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, January 29th (Wednesday)

Flayed, here are the links to two good threads, which I've bumped for you in JFO:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=408443

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631&AP=1

Is your WH in IC? Is he taking responsibility? What's his explanation?


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, January 29th (Wednesday)

Flayed, here are the links to two good threads, which I've bumped for you in JFO:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=408443

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631&AP=1

Is your WH in IC? Is he taking responsibility? What's his explanation?


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
flayed
Member
Member # 41875
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, January 29th (Wednesday)

Blobette-
He is taking full responsibility. He has never put any of it on me. He just doesn't know why he made the choices he made. We both like that tagline that another user uses ""She knew my one weakness- that I am weak" -Homer Simpson". He was weak, failed to put up boundaries, was in denial of what was happening and she (Like a lioness that scopes out the herd for the weakest wildebeast) set her sights on him and hunted him down like a skilled hunter. He realizes now how skillfully and easily she used and manipulated him to get what she wanted. I think he is really angry and disgusted with himself, but sometimes displaces that anger on to me (which I don't tolerate).

I would like him to be in IC, but he and the MC think we can get him sorted out in MC. I am still reserving the right to ask him to go to IC if I don't see enough progress on his "why" in MC.


BS(Me)-39
WH-39
Married 13 yrs, Together 19 yrs
4 kids under 8
2 yr LTA
DDay- Oct.29, 2013

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, January 29th (Wednesday)

He doesn't seem to see all of the negative actions I might have taken and he should be on his knees with gratitude that I am still here with him, beside him. He thinks he is showing his gratitude, but I don't feel it and feel he is still sorely lacking in the gratitude department.

I would really talk about that part with him. Here's why. This is going to suck for a long time. I am sorry, but the ups and downs that this causes is rough stuff if you try and R. What helped me is clearly spelling out to my W what I want her to do and when. This is not based on my "meeting her needs" or "being a good partner" because in truth I knew that I would not be either of those things to her for a while. I was not afraid of leaving in fact I wanted to. There is no, making it up, that comes even close, but IMO a WS should try to. You can direct him here and if he doesn't follow suit it may be telling you something.

There actions that you tell them to do help. It tells you they are listening to you and give a shit if you leave or stay.

I very much appreciate you now wanting to see him hurting anymore than he is. That said, pain is a great educator and the self reflection that is needed for him to become and authentic, honest person will be painful. IMO he needs to explain it to you in his own words and actions and they need to make sense to you otherwise I don't see a great outcome. The pain you experience together and apart forge the new M. Don't waste it. Lean into it.

Take care...



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, January 29th (Wednesday)

Anger, anger, anger. And sadness, confusion, happy, even joyful family moments, uber-sensitive/hyper vigilant.

And yes while your H is still in that selfish/foggy place, karma is often quite accurate with her assessment. If he ever utters the jail bit again, let him know that the amount times he should say it again, is...zero. It is manipulation. He should not be saying that. Period.

We actually stopped MC at 3 months bc I realized that although we had some marital issues, H was the one who made the decision to cheat. Plan, lie, cheat. And repeat. That needed a certain amt of introspection that he was not getting in MC. He was in IC at the time anyway. We are going onto 14 months and he still goes every 3-4 weeks. I go every 6.

Finally, I have made things very easy for most people, most of the time. That person is on her way out. I can see her getting her boots on! I do it with family, friends and even strangers. This is a really good time to be very aware of this part of you and try to figure out why you do this. You are not comfortable with other people being uncomfortable. I totally get that! But, at some point, something's got to give with this approach. It is possible to be selfish in a good way.

Keep posting!


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2288 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, January 29th (Wednesday)

karmahappens- WH is not trying to manipulate me into not talking about the affair. He wants me to talk to him. It is my own doing because if I see him suffering deeply my protective instincts kick in.

He knows you have protective instincts and feel bad when he hurts, that is why I believe this...

Like yesterday when he told me that he feels like he is in jail and he is being punished like a naughty teenager.

IS manipulation. He tries to make you feel bad for his being "in prison".

JMO

[This message edited by karmahappens at 5:18 PM, January 29th (Wednesday)]


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3807 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Cool  Posted: 6:35 PM, January 29th (Wednesday)

Sorry, I disagree with your MC. If your WH is really that clueless about why it happened (and spare me the master huntress shit - I'm sorry, that sounds like more "poor me" stuff), he should be in IC. The MC's focus is the marriage. An IC should focus on him and his bad choices. To really explore, he should do this in private, not In a place where you're watching and evaluating his every word. He's going to perform for you in front of the MC, whether consciously or not. The MC also has a bias that it' say couple problem.

I speak from experience here. IC has done my FWH a TON of good, and we couldn't have got there with MC alone. After spending a lot of time here on SI, I've really come to the conclusion that people who resist IC are doing it because they don't want to deal with their issues. They're still avoidant and don't want to be accountable.

I still see you making excuses for his selfishness. Sorry to be harsh, but I really do mean all of this kindly. It is such a hard thing we go through.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
EaglesWings
Member
Member # 41156
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, January 30th (Thursday)

At 3 months out, there is no way "it should look." My FWH was still way too foggy at that point. We started affair recovery counseling at that time. It was at the 6 month point that he even began to unfog. We attended a "Recovery weekend" together at that point and really started toward R at that point.

After D-d I gave myself a 6 month deadline-no major decisions for 6 months. If there had been no progress, then move on. I read " Love must be Tough" and wrote him an ultimatum letter, I was willing to say goodbye and move on. I never delivered it, but just knowing I had gained that strength gave me peace and the confidence to stay the course. He began to engage in the process so I extended my deadline 3 months at a time. We are now 22 mos out and things are MUCH better.

Give yourself time, strengthen yourself. Then you can make whatever decisions you need to. No one here is superhuman, you CAN do this. We're here to help!


Just one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread....

Posts: 54 | Registered: Oct 2013
SadFlower
Member
Member # 37725
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, January 30th (Thursday)

Flayed, at three months out, you are both still awfully raw. All the feelings you describe are normal.

Maybe some will disagree with me, but I also think it's normal for the WS to feel as if s/he is "in jail," especially early in the process. Having to be accountable for every move, knowing that their BS is checking e-mail, phone records, etc., cannot be a good feeling. Nor should it be--they brought it on themselves through their own despicable actions. With time, though, a truly remorseful and committed FWS will let go of those feelings and see how necessary accountability is--for your healing, and for the healing of the marriage.

FWIW, I also got the "in jail" line at 7 months out, which led to a, ahem, lively discussion. My FWH snapped out of that fog after a while. He has since admitted how good it feels not to be living a double life, not having anything to hide.

Anyway, hugs, and courage, as the French would say--hang in there, it will most likely get better.


Me: BW, age 66
Him: WH, age 64
Married 19 years
In R.

D-Day: August 14, 2012
9 year LTA with former co-worker and family "friend"/7 years EA+PA, 2 more years EA


Posts: 398 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Connecticut
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, January 30th (Thursday)

Like yesterday when he told me that he feels like he is in jail and he is being punished like a naughty teenager. WTF??!! My perspective is radically different!! From my point of view I have given very few consequences for his A. I did not leave or threaten divorce, I did not out him to friends or family, I did not out him at work (which would ruin his career), he is sleeping in the same bed with me, we have had HB, I have not made him get rid of things that have associations with his A, I have not banned out-of-town conferences and I have not told him that he will never again be able to participate in an out-of-town sport that was a rendezvous site during his A (although I would be fully within my rights to demand this if I chose, given the choices he made).

This jumps out to me. You need to value yourself enough to demand to be safe in your relationship. I think you need to establish what your willing to put up with to engage this marriage. What are the things you need to achieve the marriage you want? These should be articulated and he needs to follow through. If not then you must stand for yourself, to accept so little tells him he doesn't need to change his behaviors. Demand the marriage you want! First the things you need to feel safe in the marriage and then then the things needed to feel loved and cherished in the marriage. Then sit back and watch his behaviors. If they match what you lay out, great. If not, you need to put your bitch boots on and levy consequences. YOUR WORTH MORE THAN YOU BELIVE, START TO ACT LIKE YOUR THE PRIZE YOU ARE.

This shit is hard I know, I didn't value myself initially either, I had given myself away to a marriage that was a corpse. I held on so tightly to it I was willing to sacrifice myself for it. Once I realized I was worth more, things started to change. If my wife didn't follow, that was fine. I was moving on for myself.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1899 | Registered: Nov 2010
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, January 30th (Thursday)

Like yesterday when he told me that he feels like he is in jail and he is being punished like a naughty teenager.

Oh and next time he delivers this sled load of shit your way, tell him he's not trapped the door is right there and you will help him pack his shit and he can go do anything he wants. My wife went . Silence! Never heard it again. She realized in that instance, manipulation and her control of the situation was over.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1899 | Registered: Nov 2010
flayed
Member
Member # 41875
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, January 30th (Thursday)

Blobette and Karmahappens - Thank you for your frank words. I want to hear advice like yours because it wakes me up, but I have to admit that I am resistant. Doesn't make sense I suppose.

I feel like a complete contradiction in terms these days.


BS(Me)-39
WH-39
Married 13 yrs, Together 19 yrs
4 kids under 8
2 yr LTA
DDay- Oct.29, 2013

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, January 30th (Thursday)

Hey flayed.

One thing I learned going through this.

The advice that pisses you off, make you say "no way, not me" is the stuff you need to look at.

When something evokes a bigger response than normal there is usually some digging needed around it.

You don't have to take everyone's advice. All situations are different.

The strange thing though, is as much as we are all different the underlying current that runs through A's and the aftermath are quite similar.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3807 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

Hey, flayed, I totally get it. You're so early on this journey. It takes a while to shift your brain from the person you thought your WH was to whoever this person is now, and to gain a realistic picture of them. One of the things WH's IC said to me was "I know YOU don't know who he is. But what you have to understand is that HE doesn't know who he is either." So it's very confusing. It's hard to trust someone or move forward when you have no idea whether they're capable of being truly remorseful, really owning up to what they did, and being able to get over themselves enough to be a decent partner for you. Right now, your DH is still foggy and it's still all about him. And I, too, was in that mode -- how could HE have done this? I had to figure out what was going on with HIM. So it was still All About WH. At some point the emphasis has to shift, to start being all about helping FLAYED to heal -- and your WH is still way, way too immersed in his own pain (!) to see that, and you're buying into that. That's not going to be helpful in getting his head out of his ass. He has to take responsibility. He has to STFU about his "pain" and focus on the true victim here, YOU. And if he can't do that, he's not a man you want to be with.

At this early stage, my WH wasn't there yet, and he's now a pretty model FWH. So there's hope for you two. As I said before, this is all a horrible journey and process, and there just aren't any shortcuts. If only there were!

Wishing you strength!

[This message edited by Blobette at 12:43 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
flayed
Member
Member # 41875
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

I have spent a good part of the morning crying (is it a pity party??)

I was encouraged when I came on here and saw some new words of hope from all of you.

I have stupid question and need to be led by the hand right now. What do I do about the fact that when WH sees MY pain, it drives him further into HIS pain? Is it my job to snap him out of that? Help please.


BS(Me)-39
WH-39
Married 13 yrs, Together 19 yrs
4 kids under 8
2 yr LTA
DDay- Oct.29, 2013

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

Oh Christ, have a pity party. Just don't stay there. Give yourself time to be sad and cry...but then get up and do something good for you.

There are no stupid questions, really. None of us thought we would be here and well....we are. All we can do is offer words of encouragement, our experiences and support to one another.

You are still new to this pain, and it's ok. No feelings "aren't normal" or "ok".

This here...

What do I do about the fact that when WH sees MY pain, it drives him further into HIS pain? Is it my job to snap him out of that? Help please.

It is not your job to fix him, period.

Right now, in the beginning a BS barely can keep their head above water.

It is his job to fix himself. It is also his job to stand close by and support you during this time. He needs to step up and find the strength to support you.

In my situation my dday was mid-August. We didn't make the choice to jump into R until January, so 5 months.

My husband was so torn, hurt, angry at himself, full of shame...you name it. He wasn't able to be there either, he was caught between his emotions and failed miserably at comfoting me.

I spent that time working on myself. Getting IC, healing, finding strength. I hadn't found SI and didn't have BTDT support, but I knew if we divorced I did not want to appear weak and needy. So I worked on me.

Let him get to work on himself. If he wants to support you it's ok to tell him that you need support when he doesn't get it. But don't try to heal him, let him feel his pain, it will cement the knowledge that the direction he took things is wrong.

(((hugs))) and strength.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3807 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

At 3 months, chaos and confusion. They tell you to wait at least 6 months before considering any final decisions.

My biggest mistake, letting his pain affect our recovery timeline. I put the hard things on hold while he got therapy. I would not do that again. He should man up and face the pain just as I was facing it. I wasted valuable time when he should have been helping me, not the other way around.

Even if you feel selfish and hard, make your H start the hard work and tote the heavy rocks on his back. They are his load, not yours.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1474 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

I have stupid question and need to be led by the hand right now. What do I do about the fact that when WH sees MY pain, it drives him further into HIS pain? Is it my job to snap him out of that? Help please.

Flayed that is not a stupid question. And no. It is not your job to snap him out of it.

When my H started his pity party I remembered reading Brene Brown's bit about shame. I did not want him to get stuck in shame ie:
You are a terrible person. vs
What you did was terrible.

He was in IC at the time and she helped him with that. I would recommend he deal with his pain in IC at this time. You have enough on your plate and consoling him does not figure into the equation.

Your H, like mine had a 2 year A. Very, very difficult road. You will get through this.

Keep reading. Keep posting. Take encouragement from SI and encourage YOURSELF. I did a lot of good self talk.

Take good care of you. Remember...good selfish!


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2288 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

Honey, of COURSE it's OK to have a pity party! Party on! It's pity party 24/7 around here! (Theme song: "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to")

OK, silliness out of the way... This is why IC is so important. He can do his whining and moaning around someone who has the ability to focus on him in a neutral way. He shouldn't be drawing strength from you -- that's just outrageous, in the current circumstances. Similarly, it's good for you to have an IC to process all of this and make you stronger in your own resolve.

Bottom line: you need to tell him he has to man up and deal with the consequences. He made the mess, he has to clean it up. He can't expect you to help him and build him up. You have very good reasons to be re-evaluating the relationship, and he should understand that.

Keep posting. And remember: "you would cry too, if it happened to you!"


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

Flayed,
Have a pity party. I could barely stand on my two feet by three months. You must allow yourself the ability to grieve the loss of your old marriage. That is OK. You deal with your feeling's, he can deal with his. If your pain drives him deeper, that's his to deal with. Start to turn inward. Focus on YOU.
At 3 months I felt like this drawing someone here posted, this is a view. Raw pain.

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 2:17 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1899 | Registered: Nov 2010
Morhurt
Member
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

Oh flayed, I've had the exact same question about his sadness so many times. Once, at about 2 months from final DD he sank into a (manufactured) depression. He sulked and felt that all happiness was fake etc (he even said we could never be intimate again which pissed me off as I was in HB at the time). At first I was sad, then I was annoyed and then I was pissed off. I made him sleep on the couch that night... and he snapped out of that pity party. He basically has never retreated back to it, at least not to that extent. It still happens but it's very mild, he usually need me to distance myself a bit (which is very scary for both of us) for him to come back to reality.

It's a process. As my IC said, you can't behave a certain way for 39 years and then change over night. We all need to learn these new strategies (I may sound patient but I haven't really been). It can be excruciating at the time but if you see consistent healing and movement in the right direction, then keep going.

((hugs))


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 924 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

Double post. Oops

[This message edited by Blobette at 2:23 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
flayed
Member
Member # 41875
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

I may not be focusing on the right things about me. I have been doing a lot of reading (here and in books like Not "Just Friends") and instead of feeling empowered and amazing (worthy of love), what I read cuts me to the core and leaves me sobbing. i.e. I feel like a spotlight has been put on all of my flaws and I feel even more worthless than ever. Now I feel like I deserve what I got, while before I guess I was happily dysfunctional. (Aren't we all somewhat dysfunctional? ) This is part of the pity party.

For example: I am too independent yet too codependent; I am too demanding (high standards)yet too weak to take hard stances, etc.

It makes me feel like "I RUINED HIM".

BTW these thoughts and feelings originate in me. They have been building up over the last week or two and I am just now forming coherent thoughts about them. I will share them with WH later today either in our MC session or after the kids go to bed.


BS(Me)-39
WH-39
Married 13 yrs, Together 19 yrs
4 kids under 8
2 yr LTA
DDay- Oct.29, 2013

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014
flayed
Member
Member # 41875
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

lordhasaplan?- That picture is exactly how I feel except with a lot more blood spatter.


BS(Me)-39
WH-39
Married 13 yrs, Together 19 yrs
4 kids under 8
2 yr LTA
DDay- Oct.29, 2013

Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014
Morhurt
Member
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

Are you in IC? It has been amazing for me, I highly suggest it if you're not doing it already.

I'm confused by this

what I read cuts me to the core and leaves me sobbing. i.e. I feel like a spotlight has been put on all of my flaws and I feel even more worthless than ever. Now I feel like I deserve what I got

You are NOT to blame!


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 924 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
Blobette
Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

I think that this way of thinking is very very common among BSs. It's all part of the illusion of control. That if we had somehow been different, the WH wouldn't have cheated. That there was something we could have done.

I'm not really sure what's so attractive about that. The truth is, shit happens and it's not our fault. OK, you've heard that a million times on here now. But really, really absorb it. THERE IS NOTHING YOU COULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY. You could have looked like Scarlett Johansson and he would have cheated! You could have been June Cleaver and he would have cheated! BECAUSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU! That's frightening because it means that you never really knew WTF was going on with your WH at the level that really mattered. You have no control over the person who has this amazing ability to wound you so very very deeply. The person who holds your heart in their hands. That is fucking scary. So we resort to the more comforting idea that if we had only done X, Y, or Z... none of this would have happened. And it's all totally untrue. Because there is nothing you could have done.

It's terrifying.

Let go. Your flaws are not the issue. None of us is perfect; no marriage is perfect. You shouldn't have to be perfect to have a faithful spouse. That's an impossible standard. Let go! You are a good, loving human being. I can tell that you dearly love your WH. You did not deserve this. Please let go.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1057 | Registered: Aug 2012
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, January 30th (Thursday)

What Blobette says is so true, flayed. Read it a few times!

In the aftermath of an A we can look at what was truly good and genuinely bad about the marriage (After the Affair, Janis A Spring). It also gives us the OPPORTUNITY (note that word opportunity) - to look within. This is how I CHOSE to see it. Not right away. But I did.

I think it is impressive that you see that you can be demanding (so can I but getting more reasonable) but also not have the wherewithal to take a hard stance (me too but getting better at this).

BUT. NO MATTER WHAT. YOU DID NOT CAUSE THE A. YOU DID NOT BRING THIS ON.

We all have flaws but the A? This is his and his alone, to own.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2288 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Topic Posts: 36