SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Wayward Side
User Topic: Foo meeting mojo
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, October 18th (Friday)

A lot has been going on. Don't have the strength nor stomach to pour it all out.

Tonight is a meeting to hash things out. It will be the deciding factor on whether my FOO will be a part of our lives anymore.

I'm sick. I'm scared. I'm exhausted. I feel I'm on the verge of freedom but that the cost will be great, and my children could suffer from the impact.

Any prayers or mojo would be appreciated.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
EmotionalFool
Member
Member # 37362
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, October 18th (Friday)

((Aubrie)) Wishing you strength and peace


WW: 28 (ME)
BH: 28 (SI profile: CrappyLife)
D-Day- 15/10/12

Posts: 334 | Registered: Nov 2012
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Thanks EF. I''m so scared. I''m physically sick. My stomach is shredded. Can''t eat. Can''t drink. It feels like a weird version of Dday although it not infidelity related at all.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
LosferWords
Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Hang in there, Aubrie. Go with your heart. That's really all you can do.

Sending mojo and strength your way.


Posts: 6724 | Registered: Dec 2010
SurprisinglyOkay
Member
Member # 36684
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Got some mojo coming your way


FWS me 36 (recovering addict)
BS him 39 AFrayedKnot
Together 7 years
2 children


"Your secrets keep you sick"


Posts: 1130 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: 221B
Faithful w/Love
Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Stay strong and fllow your heart. Remember we are all here cheering you on.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 19 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
False R. Still Lying.
Will be divorcing soon!
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"!

Posts: 2661 | Registered: Aug 2011
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Aubrie
We can not change our past.
We can have a happy future by learning from our past.
Our true selves shines thru on how we handle our mistakes in life.

Good Luck!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3186 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
plainsong
Member
Member # 37826
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Sending you prayers and support. I hear your concern about your kids being affected. Remember that they will also benefit from seeing their parents set boundaries to protect themselves (and the family as a whole) from abusive or unhealthy relationships.

Also remember that it is ok for you to make the decision that you think and feel is best for you now. If the situation or people change later, you can renegotiate.

The most important thing now is to respect yourself and your own family unit. If you can speak respectfully to your FOO members while setting boundaries in this difficult situation, so much the better, but you can only do the best you can. I trust that your heart will lead you to a good choice.


Me,WW,69;
Him,BH,70 - Happy Birthday!
Dday,12/22/2010
I use capital letters for emphasis, not yelling!

Posts: 66 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Chicago area
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Prayers and mojo for you. Will be sending good thoughts.

We're here for you.

(((Aubrie)))


If you can't learn to enjoy your life when you have problems, you may never enjoy it because we'll always have problems. - Joyce Meyer

Posts: 17035 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, October 18th (Friday)

(((Aubrie)))

Posts: 11601 | Registered: Mar 2008
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Prayers for strength, peace and guidance.

(((Aubrie)))


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1411 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Thanks everyone.

Plainsong, you''re right. On every account. It is healthy, it is the right thing to do.

Its just facing the monster straight in the eyes that is so terrifying. Its facing the abuse head on. Its putting your foot down and saying "No more."

Terrifying.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Good luck tonight. We're all behind you


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36940 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Strength vibes >>>>>>>


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7923 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Joanh
Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Will be thinking of you and hope all goes well.
((Aubrie))


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 406 | Registered: Apr 2013
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Prayers


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2560 | Registered: Aug 2012
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Well that was worthless. You cannot discuss anything with a NPD P/A nut job. It all just gets turned back around on us.

There were no fights. No raised voices. But we were treated very condescendingly. Whatever. I''m done.

I can be civil. But they know where I stand and how I feel. You wanna think I''m stupid? Fine. Whatever. My life goes on.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Thank you everyone for your words, care, and support. Means the world to me.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 9:17 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Well that was worthless. You cannot discuss anything with a NPD P/A nut job. It all just gets turned back around on us.

1,000,000% true. This is why we do not engage with NPD/PA IL's anymore. We have the full support of our counselors, and basically anyone else who knows them.

It's going to be ok. You have YOUR family, and that's a perfectly worthy place to put your energy.


If you can't learn to enjoy your life when you have problems, you may never enjoy it because we'll always have problems. - Joyce Meyer

Posts: 17035 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Just pisses me off. Ya know?

Be a dick. Doesn''t care. Because HE is right. Dontcha know. Noooooobody else knows anything. He is God''s gift to humanity.

Good luck with that Dude.

I have my husband and children. That''s all that matters. I almost lost them once. Ain''t gonna happen again.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Your healing continues, in spite of the guy's hangups and condescension. Take care Aubrie and keep going!!!

[This message edited by silverhopes at 11:21 PM, October 18th (Friday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.


Posts: 3901 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, October 18th (Friday)

(((Aubrie))),

If he's truly NPD, he'll only continue to hurt you if you let him. It's tough, but NC really is the best way to go with NPDs.

I "screwed up" and talked to my BIL the other day. Royally pissed off my NPD SIL. I should have just stayed completely NC.

So, I get it. It completely pisses you off and there's nowhere to put that anger because expressing it at them gets you nowhere.

Just keep healing YOU.


Posts: 11601 | Registered: Mar 2008
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

My sister opened up and said she feared him. Always had. He told her it was all I''m her head and she needed to stop it. I piped up and said if it was all in her head, then it was all in mine, and we must both be crazy and need therapy. (sarcasm) My mom was so angry and they were both "flabbergasted" that we would say something like that because he "has never" given us a reason to fear him. Oh. Ok.

He made a HUGE production about apologizing about "stuff that happened 15 years ago". Because that''s in the PAST. That''s not today. And dwelling on all that old stuff prevents us from moving forward. (Rugsweeping) He completely discounted our feelings and if he actually acknowledged anything, it was in a condescending attitude. But ya know, he loves us soooo much.

I pointed out that his love is conditional as long as we''re making him proud, then he rips it away when we embarrass him or if we fall. He completely denied that and said that I belonged to my husband and what I do falls back on my husband. That it doesn''t matter to him one way or the other. Liar. LIAR! He has ALWAYS made his displeasure known. Even in my raising of MY children.

Oh there was a lovely little bit about the kids too. We asked they back off reprimanding our children if we are present. He basically said if its his house and the noise/chaos exceeds his tolerance, he WILL get onto them. No you wont. Because you have ZERO tolerance. They won''t come over anymore. I pointed out that despite what they think, my children are very well behaved and people always rave about how good they are, even when they''re somewhat rowdy. I got an earful on that one too.

I tried. We all did. We knew it most likely wouldn''t help anything. But he knows where we stand. That''s what I keep telling myself. He cant say he doesn''t know now.

I fluctuate between anger at the stupidity of it all, and "my give a dang is busted". He will never change. And I know his cycle. I''ve seen him do this to other families. He will either cut us out, be condescending towards us in the name of being "kind", or pack his bags and move to another city. I hope he chooses option 3. Buh-bye.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

It wasn't worthless - there's value in you and your sister saying your truths out loud, even if they weren't received.

Sending you, QS and your kids strength and comfort. Onward together.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25019 | Registered: Aug 2011
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

(((Aubrie)))
I take my hat off to you.
It takes a lot of strength & insight to do what you just did.
I just wanted to tell you that I have learned a lot from reading your posts over the last few months.
I have been following this one closely because I have a very similiar problem with a NPD MIL. I have not had a relationship with her since Dday but keep getting subtle
pressure from WH to resume some sort of relationship with her for the kids sake.
Altho I see it clearly ( same dynamic as you are describing with the condescension, "she hasn't done anything wrong so I am the one with the problem", etc.), I do not feel strong enough to even confront her, because she has a way of manipulating the conversation---I'm sure you know what I mean. My only other option was to not have any contact.
It sounds like you were able to stay very centered & say what you needed to say.
We are proud of you!


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Dec 2012
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

Just wanted to add, I think that one of the main issues when dealing with NPD in a family member, especially an elder, is believing that we have a right to stand up for ourselves. At least, that is what I struggle with.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Dec 2012
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

Sorry Aubrie. It sucks.

Keeping people like that at a distance is the only way. It does hurt. And there is no changing them.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6097 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
SoVerySadNow
Member
Member # 36711
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

NIK is right, there was something achieved because you spoke up.

This is a toxic relationship. One it's best to be out of. And it's good not to spread the man into your children's lives anyway.

Ugh- FOO.


Me:BW
Him:WH
D-day(s),after years of TT and Gaslighting was Labor Day Weekend 2012, continuing for a week after. *Dammit! More TT 3/9/13
Really trending toward D- planning about it is my "happy place" now.

Posts: 1292 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Sunny Florida
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

Thanks mchercheur. Its been quite a journey. Deep down I knew that this would come to a head and there would be confrontation, but I kept hoping otherwise. Delusional much?

I feel a sense of peace that I was able to say some things, even tho it fell on deaf ears. I only regret that I cried. I couldn''t stop the tears. I couldn''t do it stone cold, sober faced. Dang emotions.

The family dynamic will never be the same again. It will be very awkward, but I''m prepared for that. If NC is the only answer, cool beans.

This process has also healed the relationship between my sister and I. We bear many of the same scars. We are communicating on a much deeper, more mature level. This process is helping her heal and fix her own issues. And her husband is very supportive of both her and I.

Something I keep thinking about. When I told my Mom about my A, literally the first thing out of her mouth was, "You know I can''t tell your dad." Well....why not? If he doesn''t judge people, doesn''t keep score, if I rise and fall by my own merits, if I "belong" to QS now, why does Daddy dear''s opinions or thoughts on it matter hmmmm? Both my parents are talking out both sides of their mouths. Surpriiiise!

Crazy making. But I am ok. My sister will be ok, our husbands and children will be ok, and life will go on.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, October 19th (Saturday)

The family dynamic will never be the same again.

Is this really a bad thing?

When you change, the people around you can't not change. I heard that from either our MC or Catwoman, I can't remember, but in any case, it's true. In some ways your parents seem similar to BR's, and this was a huge thing we had to deal with early on. I'm still on high alert when they're around our kids, but it really hasn't been an issue, because we make it very clear to them that we are our kids parents and will do the parenting.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36940 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, October 19th (Saturday)

No. Its not a bad thing. Just different.

I explained to my sister about us changing, them not, and "the norm" no longer being "the norm". She sees it. But its still new to her and she''s trying to figure out how to accept and find peace with it. Time. Just takes time.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
OnAnIsland
Member
Member # 34319
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, October 20th (Sunday)

You did the right thing. And you held your ground. It is so hard to step out of these foo patterns, and everyone will fight to shove you back into your role. Take care of yourself, your husband and kids. I am happy that you and your sister are finding each other in this in a deeper way. Take care.


D-day: Christmas 2011
D-day 2: 3/28/2013

Married for over 15 years
2 beautiful boys in elementary school

You may not control all the events that happen to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. Maya Angelou


Posts: 1478 | Registered: Dec 2011
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

Saw my family in a public setting today. Mother shunned me completely. Wouldn''t even look at me. Kept her back to me at all times. My dad made eye contact but that was it. How big of him.

Yay FOO. Thanks for some of that unconditional love you swore up and down you had for your kids. Not.

I feel so sad. My daughter is so close to Mother. And to have that stripped away? How do I tell her? How do I help her process and fill the void? How can you replace people in your life? You can''t. Not without pain and scars. How do I help a 8 and 5 year old thru that? I don''t even know what to say to them.

"Your grandparents are childish brats, throwing a tantrum for not getting their way. Look good and hard kids. That''s how NOT to act."

I''m so tired. Exhausted from being on high alert. Tired of the mind games. Knowing they are still trying to manipulate. (Mother''s tears and boohooing) I can see her texting or calling a day or two from now. "Why haven''t you talked to me? Do you have a problem with me?" Uhh...no Drama Queen. Do you?

She''s done it before. I will not be surprised if she did it again.

QS held me today while I was in a weepy moment. "Its ok to grow up. You''ve waited a long time to do that." That broke my heart to hear. I''ve been stunted. I feel so behind the rest of the kids in my class.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
LosferWords
Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

I'm really sorry things didn't go down better, Aubrie. For what it is worth, I think it took a lot of courage for you and your sister to stand up to your folks. I think you did the right thing.

Sending strength to you and your family.


Posts: 6724 | Registered: Dec 2010
stroppy_wanadoo
Member
Member # 11224
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Proud of you, Aubrie. That had to be difficult but you took your piece of control back.

I love my parents dearly, but my father needs this confrontation. I've chosen to deal with it, though, by just keeping my distance and maintaining my relationship with my mom. I see no value in engaging with him, especially because I am not sure I could get my siblings to go along with me.

Good for you. I hope you find some peace in the new family dynamic.


Posts: 1020 | Registered: Jul 2006
authenticnow
Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 5:07 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Aubrie,

That was a very brave thing to do. It took me years to do, and some of the stuff got resolved and some remained as status quo. The difference now is, I assert my boundaries and that feels good. (Scary sometimes, but good!) It is empowering to be true to ourselves.

I picture it as that damaged little girl finally getting the love and care that she needs. When our parents don't do it, we have to step up and help that little girl heal. Then we can be on our way to being healthy women.

And think of your own children, and how you and your H are changing that cycle. That's what we have power over.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37282 | Registered: Sep 2007
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

I feel so sad. My daughter is so close to Mother. And to have that stripped away? How do I tell her? How do I help her process and fill the void? How can you replace people in your life? You can't. Not without pain and scars. How do I help a 8 and 5 year old thru that? I don't even know what to say to them.

Do you want your kids to keep watching you get verbally/emotionally abused by your parents & get the message that it is acceptable for you to be treated that way? You would be teaching your kids that it is ok to let people treat you & them that way.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Dec 2012
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Still no communication of any form from the parental units. Bizarre feeling. There is freedom, there is peace, QS said last night he respects me so much more for standing up for myself. Yet there is a burden. I don''t want to "be right" and them "be wrong". Its not about that. It''s about respect. Its about being healthy and retraining them how they can and cannot treat us. And I know its a time thing.

Our counselor (Pick your jaw up. Yes we have a counselor) has been the biggest help and support. Has my parents pegged. I think the counselor knows them better than they know themselves. Which I find humorous for some reason. They aren''t near as healthy as they''re trying to tell everyone. And I''m finding out more and more, there aren''t many people buying their brand of crazy. I feel so stupid for not being able to see it sooner.

Everything I was telling my sister last week? All the stuff we were told is "all in your head and you need to stop it right now"? Yeah, I was right and it''s not all in our heads. Its real. And the counselor labeled it abuse. And all but called my dad a narcissistic bully.

We were given examples on what to say should we be approached. That was my struggle. What do I say if they come to me? I have ammo now. A non-confrontational, subtle message that says, "This is not cool, I am hurt by your actions, this will take time, and I am not rug sweeping this crap."

I don''t want my children to think it''s ok to be abused. I don''t want the to think its acceptable to be treated the way they''ve been treated while at the parental unit''s house. That was something brought up in the meeting. They are MY children, I will discipline them if needed. Well, I was informed that the parental units have "a certain threshold" and if my children cross it, they will be disciplined by my parental unit. Umm....what!? They didn''t tell me where that "threshold" is, and it really doesn''t matter. They are MY kids. Raise up off of them. So...my children will not be going there anymore. Simple as that.

The parental units wouldn''t dare to discipline other people''s children. But its ok for mine? Not anymore. I''m over it. I was abused. I will not tolerate it for myself or my children a minute longer.

My sister and I have been crutches for my parents. Although my Dad acts like he''s a-ok, he has zero self-esteem. Zero self-worth. That''s why he uses people around him. To feel more important and loved. When he builds "friendships", they are always with people with money or influence. Makes dad feel more special. He uses us kids in a similar way. We''re part of his mini empire. We took that away from him. He''s not a happy camper.

Mother suffers from "social anxiety". Which frankly, I don''t buy. I don''t want to come off as heartless but I saw her say something in the meeting and she started crying. Dude. M-a-n-i-p-u-l-a-t-i-o-n. My heart turned to ice. I feel zero pity. Her "social anxiety" is fed by her using ME as a crutch. She makes me entertain the guests that dad invites at the drop of a hat. No more. She vents to me about "your father". Umm...tell HIM. Work it out with HIM. But noooo. "I could never tell him this!". Well, sounds like they need counseling. I''m not the sounding board anymore. I''ve taken her crutch away. She has "no one" to talk to. She is terrified. Wonder how long they''ll sit in that house without their crutches before their world comes crashing down around them. That little paradise they are trying to sell to everyone? It''s all smoke and mirrors.

All the crap she has told me and my sister we need to do? Make new friends, do new things, make time for ourselves, communicate with our husbands, get our husbands into counseling? Yeah. She won''t do any of it herself! She has no friends, she has no outside hobbies, she doesnt make time for herself, she doesn''t communicate with her husband, and OMG, they do n.o.t. need counseling. "Aubrie, you don''t really know what its like over there..." Yes I do. We were enmeshed for years. I know her very well. Too well.

The sadness comes and goes. The tears come and go. Ultimately, I know we''re doing the right thing. It''s just new and different. Those little voices of "rebellious", "disrespectful", "loyalty" keep slapping me around. I know that''s the abuse bleeding thru.

We''ll get this.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Another typical ploy used by this type of narcissistic bully is to tell you that you are overly sensitive. They turn it completely around---you are the one with the problem---there is nothing wrong with them, & they didn't do anything wrong.
Oftentimes they are condescending to people, talk down to them, to make themselves feel superior.

Aubrie, you & your sister drawing a line in the sand is changing the whole balance of power. Your parents have a choice----they can start treating you with respect, or there will be no relationship.
Sounds like you are off to a good start in taking care of yourself. Good luck.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Dec 2012
imagoodwitch
Member
Member # 23375
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Sometimes you have to prune a diseased limb off of the family tree.

I'm proud of you and your sister for finding your voices.

You did good Aubrie.

We had to do this with WS parental units.


I am just your ordinary average everyday sane psycho supergoddess - Liz Phair

Don't keep dancing with the Devil and wonder why you are still in Hell.

It's all shits and giggles until someone giggles and shits.


Posts: 5332 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Munchkinland
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

I struggle all the time with the fact that Valerie does not know her paternal aunt and grandfather. I feel sad for her for the void we are going to have to explain someday, and the codependent in me keeps trying to think of ways to "fix" the situation.

The bottom line is that these are toxic, broken people and we do NOT need this type of person influencing out children. We can't herd them like cattle their entire lives, but we can give them a leg up by making sure that they are surrounded by healthy behaviors as much as possible in these formative years.

I'm glad you guys are involving a counselor. Sometimes we need an objective 3rd party to reaffirm that holding family at arms-length is the right thing to do.

You have this all broken down to a science. Just keep looking at the numbers when your heartstrings tug.

(((Aubrie & fam)))

[This message edited by Jrazz at 11:50 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]


If you can't learn to enjoy your life when you have problems, you may never enjoy it because we'll always have problems. - Joyce Meyer

Posts: 17035 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

Breaking it down has saved my sanity. Our counselor backed up everything I felt. Not that I am a know it all or anything. But the things I saw and felt, which were then bashed and brushed aside by my dad, were brought back up by the counselor who said, no you're not crazy. It's real.

I sit back and think about all the experiences over the years, things discussed in the meeting. I get so angry. I know I've been talking in circles on this thread, repeating myself, guess its part of my process. Finding a sort of acceptance? But then, how do you accept that brand of crazy? I can't.

I was PMing someone about forgiveness. I know I *should* forgive my parents. But I'm so dang angry. How could they??? I trusted them. And they proved that I can't even trust my own parents. Parents! The people who bear and raise you.

I came to SI in 2011 so naive. Believing my family was some special unicorn of health and awesomeness. Boy was I flat dead wrong.

Ok, done whining. I'm spending time with my children today. Doing something fun and special just for them.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
landabear
Member
Member # 15046
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

I know I *should* forgive my parents.

Why?

I think you'll find the answer to the question of why you feel that way resides firmly in FOO issues too.

At any rate, something a dear friend told me once: only forgive the repentant.

If you happen to find it in your heart to forgive them before such time as you see true repentance, you are just ahead of schedule.


BS
Divorced: March 2006
Married to a wonderful, FAITHFUL man: October 2009

Posts: 740 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Midwest
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

I came to SI in 2011 so naive. Believing my family was some special unicorn of health and awesomeness. Boy was I flat dead wrong.
This is very common in unhealthy and enmeshed family dynamics. I'm sure your counselor is on top of this with you, but I feel the need to tell you that this is a battle you will have to keep fighting, and it is entirely possible that it will escalate before it approaches a new normal.

Sending you, QS, and your sister tons of long-acting strength.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25019 | Registered: Aug 2011
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

I feel the need to tell you that this is a battle you will have to keep fighting, and it is entirely possible that it will escalate before it approaches a new normal.
I've been contemplating posting this all day. Not 30 minutes after my post this morning I got an email.

The most epic, blameshifting, guilt-tripping, "once burned, twice shy", "ball is in your court" email ever.

Anger doesn't begin to describe the emotion I feel. Ball is in my court? Cool. I'm changing the rules. The ball is now a brick and I'm launching it at your head. Surpriiiise! Now you know how I feel.

The nerve. Not one word about healing and moving forward in a healthy way. Which is what us kids have always made sure to say. We want healing and a healthy approach. That's all we want. But nooooo. L They have to sling more mud. And half of it completely out of context.

I refuse to respond. I have nothing to say. I will not defend myself. They have no interest in fairness. They have no interest in equality. Only dominance and their word is lae. Well guess what Sugah Boo. Not anymore. Not me. I'm not their doormat. I will not be trampled anymore.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

I cannot thank you people enough. Seriously. I would be losing my mind, convinced I was insane, if not for the voices of experience here.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

Maybe try using the 180 for your parents - it's built for things just like this.

Something I JUST learned about forgiveness is that it doesn't mean you condone what someone has done, it means that you have found compassion for them and learned to let go of the transgression.

It sounds backwards to have forgiveness be for the benefit of the forgiver, but it really is.


If you can't learn to enjoy your life when you have problems, you may never enjoy it because we'll always have problems. - Joyce Meyer

Posts: 17035 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, October 24th (Thursday)

Aubrie,

I have been watching your struggles and (mostly) silently cheering you on.

BH and I are in FOO hell along with you right now with both of our families.

I have been reading and wracking my brain for insight in my own sitch this morning and have felt like I should share this with you. I don't feel like it's anything you don't already know but I'm going to share anyway. It's from a website that I've found very helpful. PM me if you want the link to read the whole article.

Narcissism in parents is the primary cause of psychopathology in our society. The narcissistic parent wants a child who's exactly like him or her. If this kid has different personality features and values than the parent, he's regarded with disappointment and disapproval/disdain and criticized or punished. It's challenging for any parent to bond with a child who's unlike him/herself, but the narcissistic mother or father treats it like a sin, and their 'prodigy' grows up never feeling good enough, or lovable just for being himself.

This issue is usually passed along generation to generation, which is why so many talented young people are urged (often against their will), to echo the parent's career choice or take over the family business, even if they have no natural ability in that arena, or passionate desire to follow a parent's path.

Depression in teens and young adults typically results from feeling like they can never live up to a parent's expectations, if they have wishes and dreams that aren't congruent with Father's or Mother's. Hence, pleasing one's parent takes precedence over pleasing oneself, and core issues are sustained.

Tragically, the narcissistic parent is insecure. God help the adult child who surpasses his parent's achievements, for this inspires malicious competition from the envious parent toward his/her offspring. This 'clone' issue sets one up for feeling damned if he accomplishes, and damned if he fails~ which is the root of self-sabotaging behavior patterns (it's easier to accept a parent's disappointment in our performance, than to incur his or her resentment if we excel).

I think you posting this is giving inspiration and strength to many of us dealing with similar issues. You're proving your tagline. *courage*

Edit to fix typo

[This message edited by knightsbff at 10:02 AM, October 24th (Thursday)]


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1411 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, October 24th (Thursday)

I'm late to this but Aubrie I just want you to know how inspiring you are. You made your choice, faced it head on and stood your ground. Nothing more is needed.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2701 | Registered: Oct 2012
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, October 24th (Thursday)

it means that you have found compassion for them and learned to let go of the transgression.
I'm not there yet. Maybe eventually. But I'm still smack in the middle of anger and annoyance right now.

knightsbff, wow. I would love the link to that please. So much of that sounds so familiar. I'd like to pass it on to my sister.

We can excel. That's great. But like the article says, if we exceed our parents, then it's not cool. Dad has always been that way. He is so jealous of others. He is never content with what he has. Never content to just "be". He's always got to one-up someone. If someone has better than him, he belittles or finds fault.

My sister is the second born. She was accidentally conceived. She was a "mistake". Grew up thinking she was unwanted. My parents were dismayed that she poured her heart out about all that to someone other than them. Dude. If she's talking to someone that's good right? But nooo. Mother still brings up how horrified she is that Sister thought that and then talked to someone else about it.

We're just tired of our feelings being discounted. We're tired of being stupid children that cannot think for ourselves. We're tired of not having a voice. We're tired of being taken advantage of.

Some more drama happened today. Sister spoke on the phone shortly with Mother. It's shaping up so that I'm the bad guy that has an attitude problem and can't get along. Sister knows better as she and I have been very open with one another and have been working on boundaries and the flood of emotions together. So yeah. Things continue to brew, stir, and rumble under the surface.

I really don't feel inspiring or courageous. Really don't. This is a horrible path and I hate that I'm on it. I hate feeling duped. I hate feeling betrayed. It's what it is. A betrayal. They are not who I thought they were. We don't really have the relationship I thought we had. And I'm trying to careful to not get stuck in victim mode. Yes it blows and I need to process it. But I don't want to get stuck and be a whiney-butt. "It's theirrrrrr fault I'm such a screw ballllll." kwim? There's a balance and I want to keep it all evened out. If that's possible.

ETA: Thanks to all the stress, I've developed a lovely case of IBS. And I'm consuming vast amounts of my comfort foods. (Coke and chocolate) And I'm still losing weight. Losing weight! Granted I could loose some. But it just seems so ludicrous that this stuff is affecting me so badly.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 7:43 PM, October 24th (Thursday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, October 24th (Thursday)

Aub. As hard and uncomfortable as this has been for you, just know that you have done the *right* thing. You really have. It takes an incredible amount of strength to stand up for yourself and say "No More of this Bullshit!" And even MORE strength to hold your line. Especially when you are dealing with the type of people that you are....considering that you are dealing with 2 different issues -- your dad's (perhapsNPDbehavior) controlling-ness and your mom's attitude of keeping your dad comfortable (due to his (perhapsNPD) controlling behavior).

Watching you stand up for yourself must make QS feel very proud of you. I think that you taking this step is going to do wonders for your relationship with him.

I do have a bit of a concern about your alliance with your sister, though. She has never struck me as a person who is emotionally healthy. I understand that you and she seem to be on the same page with this issue and have confronted it together, however, something that you wrote isn't *sitting well* with me and I think that it is something that you need to be watchful of......

Sister spoke on the phone shortly with Mother. It's shaping up so that I'm the bad guy that has an attitude problem and can't get along. Sister knows better

Sister *knowing* better isn't going to be enough for this situation right now. Sister has to actively have your back. It isn't enough for her to sit there and listen to your mom make you the bad guy and then call you up and tell you what mom is saying. Sister needs to be actively asserting to your mom/dad that she holds the same viewpoint as you whenever the issue arises.
The issue is not that *<someone> is upset with <someone>*....it is that there is an unhealthy family dynamic that needs to change. If your Sister is not *actively* speaking up with the same 'complaints'....then all she is doing is fence-sitting -- and that isn't good and will play out very badly for you. (I know that you didn't post their entire conversation, so maybe I'm way off base....I just don't want to see you get burned.)

And whoever said that it's going to get worse before it gets better is right (unfortunately......)


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7923 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, October 24th (Thursday)

I hear you Gonnabe. I really do.

Mother wasn't trash talking me specifically, but she was fishing for info. Which Sister did not give her.

The way that email was worded yesterday, things that were brought up, I was completely thrown under the bus. So I knew yesterday that it was shaping up for me to be the bad guy.

While I voiced my opinion in the family meeting last week, I didn't walk out all peaches and cream. My sister said that she would accept their apologies and hoped that we could move forward in a healthy way. But I didn't say anything one way or the other. (I was still processing!) That doesn't sit well with the parentals.

And FYI: BIL is all over Sister like stink on crap. He isn't about to let this garbage slide anymore.

I'm not crawling back on my hands and knees. While the "ball is in my court", it's really not. I drew my line in the sand and I'm not crossing it. They will have to get used to that. If they want to pout and assume stuff, fine with me. I told them how I feel, and what I feel is acceptable and not acceptable. If they don't agree, if they can't accept me this way, I'm perfectly fine with that.

My sister said she has never felt so free as she has this week. Even though the family is upside down, she feels fresh, new. Several friends have commented that her entire demeanor has changed. They way she interacts with her child has changed. She told me when she got off the phone with Mother, she felt "ick" again, on edge again.

Maybe talking to Mother wasn't the best choice. She knew that after she hung up. She has no clue about boundaries. She doesn't have an SI to give her a boost. She's still learning. And she's going to falter. Just like I have the past couple years. Yes, I could possibly get burned. I'm fully aware of that. But if I get crucified for helping someone discover healthy boundaries? I'll take that punishment and bear it.

My BFF is mailing me a book on toxic parents. Should be here any day. Sister is getting it first. She is hungry for backup, more understanding, and ways to cope with this.

If the parentals want to be civil, she will shoot the breeze with them. But she will not delve deeper in. And I'm the same way to a degree. Sure, shooting the breeze isn't going to be the same for a long time, if ever. If any of them would look at me, I'd say hi. Beyond that, I don't trust them (And quite frankly, myself yet) to not get sucked back in.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 9:11 PM, October 24th (Thursday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, October 24th (Thursday)

You know that the best response to that email is hard-core *crickets*, right?

I have a strong sense that *you got this*, Aub.....I was just highlighting a potential speed bump....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7923 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
plainsong
Member
Member # 37826
Sad  Posted: 4:57 PM, October 25th (Friday)

Several thoughts. I am by no means an expert on what healthy forgiveness is - either to give or to receive. However the things I have read about the process that make sense to me are that it begins with being aware of and feeling your anger, as well as being aware of and feeling your grief. Forgiveness, if it comes, is at the end of a long path of processing, not at the beginning (except maybe for some very exceptional people?). You are exactly where you need to be in your process, and that is the right place for your focus now.

A comment on grief - I understand why you wouldn't want to cry in front of your parents, since they use it against you. But there is nothing to be ashamed of in having cried. You had a feeling and you expressed it, which is the basis of mental health. You are experiencing a tremendous loss - the loss of the supportive and loving relationship that you thought you had with your parents, and that you deserve. I am so sorry that you are having to fight such a hard fight. But you arefighting it (the definition of courage), and you are experiencing the benefits when you feel free. Hold on to the memory of that feeling when you are sunk in the pain that you are also feeling. It is not ludicrous that this is affecting you so badly!! Be gentle with yourself - I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.


Me,WW,69;
Him,BH,70 - Happy Birthday!
Dday,12/22/2010
I use capital letters for emphasis, not yelling!

Posts: 66 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Chicago area
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, October 25th (Friday)

You know that the best response to that email is hard-core *crickets*, right?
Word. And it's making people angry.

More fishing today. Sister shut her down. Another peep about me and Sister going to lower the "That's between you two. Keep me out of it" boom. Of course we all know the best time for her to do that was yesterday, but hey. She's still learning.

After the ridiculous email, Mother is the one who initiated communication with my sister. But she expects me to initiate with her! What??? Why? Apparently the same phone she is texting my sister with doesn't text me anymore. Who knew!? Don't update your iPhones people. Major glitches. Involves selective texting and whatnot.

And quite frankly, based on the content of the email, I still don't know their motive. To heal and move forward in a healthy way, or sling more mud? If the latter, I have no interest. Crickets will remain till they make the first move in the right direction.

Forgiveness, if it comes, is at the end of a long path of processing, not at the beginning (except maybe for some very exceptional people?).
Makes sense. My husband was one of the exceptional ones when it came to forgiving me. Maybe that's why I feel pressure to forgive. Because he said he forgave me the day I confessed my infidelity. My FOO isn't cheating on me. So why can't I quickly forgive this crap. But like you said, I'm still processing.

You are experiencing a tremendous loss
And it changes everything! I am gaining my freedom, my voice, my independence. But I have also lost the facade of what I thought the family was. *sigh* Holidays are coming up. I have NO clue how to maneuver that minefield. Christmas is my favorite holiday. And now I don't want it to come. I don't want to be here. All I can think of is escape. I'm praying QS gets a massive money making project so we can just get outta Dodge and not have to worry about it.

QS is reminding me to not borrow trouble. One day at a time. One holiday at a time. Things may change. Things may improve. But then again, maybe they won't. Either way, the planner in me is geeking out.

Thanks gonnabe for having my back.

Thanks plainsong. Your post helped tremendously.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, October 25th (Friday)

But I have also lost the facade of what I thought the family was.

Welcome to the *world of the betrayed*, Aub. You are going to experience a LOT of what a BS feels. Heads up --> it sucks. You *thought* that everything was copacetic and *right*....but, now, on second thought, 'life' wasn't what you thought it was. It is incredibly HARD to face that.

The motive of the email was to get you to stop *upsetting the apple cart*.....THAT is the goal. Life MUST remain status quo....and you are being uncooperative.

You have GOT to be committed to doing this for you and NOT to force some type of change within your family dynamic. If that change happens because you were strong enough to finally put your foot down and say *Enough!*....then awesome. However, you really need to prepare yourself for the most likely outcome of -- *they* are NOT going to change.

I'm sorry Aub, but this really is seismic......


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7923 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, October 25th (Friday)

Either way, the planner in me is geeking out

So you don't plan for the *family* holidays.....you plan for *your* family holiday, kwim?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7923 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, October 25th (Friday)

Aubrie, I don't know if this helps at all, but my father's father dealt with similar problems. My Papa's dad took the car that Papa himself, aged 16, worked hard and earned without so much as a "thank you." Papa's Dad was a terrible womanizer and had at least three known relationships over the course of his life in a time when that was even more terribly frowned-upon by society than it is now.

Papa broke ties with his FOO and decided that he would make a far better family than the one he had come from. After what I've learned through SI and my own personal journey, I can only imagine as to how hard it was for my grandfather to do all of this, but he did it, and he managed to forge one of the best families I've ever known.

Family is all about what you define it as, Aubrie. As long as you continue to think of your damaged FOO as the yardstick of comparison, you will never be satisfied. Do what my father's father did and break the hurtful ties. Establish your own family traditions steeped in love and mutual respect. Make a clean start with QS and the family you two have together.


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 794 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

You have GOT to be committed to doing this for you and NOT to force some type of change within your family dynamic.
I am. Something's gotta change for us. Me and QS. If they would all get on board, that would be great too. But really, I'm not holding my breath. After all, I can't dress properly, raise my kids correctly, or form a cohesive thought without being guided, so what do I know about boundaries right? Guess this is why the counselor said that them getting a clue could take years. If they get one. *sigh* They don't want to change. Why should they? They've been fine for 30 years. I gotta keep remembering that. I can't forget that. I wanted change. Not them.


My sister is facing some heat and I feel bad. Mother is attempting to use her to get to me. And sister is still learning. A comment from Mother about me yesterday was, "Hmmm...I guess when she's ready to let me in, she will. Then again she may like it this way. Oh well."

For real???? You're seriously going to go there. My sister immediately changed the subject. Mother didn't get the hint. (We know she won't. She'll have to be told, point blank.) She dropped another, "I miss the kids...Have they had Aubrie and DS's birthday party yet?" Well why don't you pick up the phone, call ME, and find out???? Oh but I forgot. Your phone doesn't know how to call me anymore.

As long as you continue to think of your damaged FOO as the yardstick of comparison, you will never be satisfied.
Pretty much. We don't have "traditions" now, and those we do are kind of worthless and lack substance.

Establish your own family traditions steeped in love and mutual respect.
I don't even know where to start. Guess I can start trolling Pinterest for Christmas tradition ideas. and of course I'll ask QS for ideas.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
She-Ra
Member
Member # 36033
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

Oops double post

[This message edited by She-Ra at 10:19 AM, October 26th, 2013 (Saturday)]


WW 33 BH 34
Met 9 yrs ago, together for 7, married for 4
Dday Aug 10, 2012
1 yr old DD

The WW formerly known as messedupchick


Posts: 806 | Registered: Jul 2012
She-Ra
Member
Member # 36033
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

Hi Aubrie

I''ve wanted to reply a few times. Sleep deprivation isn''t serving me well right now so I will keep it short.

Big hugs!!! I''m very proud of you to stand up for yourself and set boundaries. That email is very nasty and I can picture my mom writing something similar because she loves twisting everything around to make herself feel better. My last response to her when she wrote one of her classic horrible messages, I told her if she writes me one more time, she will never be allowed to speak to me again. I''ve been battling boundaries with her for nearly a year now and it''s ugly at times. The optimist in me hopes you have a happy ending sooner than later. Whether your foo is there or not.

Take care honey


WW 33 BH 34
Met 9 yrs ago, together for 7, married for 4
Dday Aug 10, 2012
1 yr old DD

The WW formerly known as messedupchick


Posts: 806 | Registered: Jul 2012
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

Hi Aubrie,

You have GOT to be committed to doing this for you and NOT to force some type of change within your family dynamic.

... I'm not holding my breath.... Guess this is why the counselor said that them getting a clue could take years. If they get one. *sigh* They don't want to change. Why should they? They've been fine for 30 years. I gotta keep remembering that. I can't forget that. I wanted change. Not them.

As I said above, I have not had a relationship with my NPD MIL since Dday -----she is toxic to me & to my marriage. I want to be healthier, I want my marriage to be stronger, & I have to protect those things.
I have not interfered with WH & our kids having a relationship with her, but my actions have affected their relationships.
There is no more grand pretense going on that WH's FOO is the Walton family.

To this day, MIL still vents to WH: “How dare MChercheur treat me this way! I didn’t do anything wrong!” I have no hopes of changing her. I agree with WH & his siblings that she will never change, she doesn’t want to. She gets off on being “The Dictator”. She has never once tried to contact me since Dday (she lives around the corner from us, & WH stayed with her while we were separated for 5 mos after Dday). I am not looking for an apology, because I don’t think she is capable of genuinely apologizing.

I recently came across this list of narcissistic traits:
--Glibness/superficial charm
--Grandiose sense of self-worth
--Pathological lying
--Cunning/manipulative
-- Lack of remorse or guilt
--Callous/lack of empathy
--Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
--Can not accept criticism
--Unable to truly apologize
--Use people for whatever they can take from them
--Great storyteller

ALL of them apply to my MIL. So, if you are dealing with people who have similar issues, it is very healthy for you to draw a line in the sand & say “no more”.
Yes, you have really upset the apple cart. There are consequences for their actions---for their disrespect & selfish, arrogant behavior. You have finally realized that you are worth it, you are worth being treated with respect, you love yourself enough not to let anyone treat you that way anymore. You have drawn your boundaries, so they can either change or not have a relationship with you anymore----but that is their choice.
(((sending you strength)))

[This message edited by mchercheur at 11:57 AM, October 26th (Saturday)]


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Dec 2012
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

Got Toxic Parents in the mail today. Been working my way thru it. About halfway done. Aaaaand as you can see, I can't sleep.

The stuff in that book, I dunno. Makes me doubt myself again. My life isn't near as bad as most of the case studies in there. My life is mild sections of different chapters. Maybe I'm just blowing this whole thing out of proportion. Ya know? I just feel in shock and more than slightly overwhelmed.

There has to be boundaries, no doubt about it. But as for the rest, maybe I'm overreacting.

So Dad has a crap day and talks smack to me. Who doesn't do that? So Mother gets dramatic and throws mud back in an email. If I got my butt handed to me, I'd be hurt and defensive too. Can't say I blame her reaction. They had childhoods like in the book. Functioning alcoholic father, emotionally dead parents, physically abusive stepfather, etc. They are doing the best they can considering their own pasts. They have made improvements from their own prior experiences. No set of parents is going to be perfect.

It's just smacking me around. I'm so exhausted from it all. Being damaged, causing damage, hurting those I love.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
abbycadabby
Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, October 28th (Monday)

Maybe I'm just blowing this whole thing out of proportion.

You're minimizing here. It was important enough to you to draw the boundary in the first place, right? To call the big meeting and hash it all out? Why do you doubt yourself now? Your counselor recognizes it:

the things I saw and felt, which were then bashed and brushed aside by my dad, were brought back up by the counselor who said, no you're not crazy. It's real.

A couple other things that stood out from this thread:

We're just tired of our feelings being discounted. We're tired of being stupid children that cannot think for ourselves. We're tired of not having a voice. We're tired of being taken advantage of.

It's what it is. A betrayal. They are not who I thought they were. We don't really have the relationship I thought we had.

I'm not there, Aubrie, so I don't really know what goes on amongst you all, but at the very least, these people don't seem to have your best interests at heart. I can see why you don't trust and why you feel betrayed continually.

I was PMing someone about forgiveness. I know I *should* forgive my parents.

Have your parents actually humbled themselves and in genuine contrition asked for your forgiveness? Maybe that's the source of your hesitation to forgive- because you know their apologies are hollow.

ETA: Thanks to all the stress, I've developed a lovely case of IBS. And I'm consuming vast amounts of my comfort foods. (Coke and chocolate) And I'm still losing weight. Losing weight! Granted I could loose some. But it just seems so ludicrous that this stuff is affecting me so badly.

Am I going to have to hightail it up there and forcefeed you a steady diet of decadent foods until you're through this mess???

Seriously, take care of yourself. As always, here if you need me.

(((Aubrie)))


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Feb 2010
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, October 28th (Monday)

Can we be anymore passive-aggressive!?

MORE fishing.

Mother: Have you heard from Aubrie?
Sis: Here and there
Mother: I'm guessing this is the way she wants it. I haven't heard a peep in 10 days.
Sis: Why don't you text her?
Mother: I told her she would have to open the door because I will not be guilty of intruding. I don't know what else to do. It's frustrating.

She did NOT! After bombing me via email, she ended it with a "ball is in your court. Once burned, twice shy" stuff.

Then! Then! A little while ago, I get a knock on my back door. My brother is standing there with gifts for me and my son for our birthdays, (which were the 12th and 15th) a key lime pie (always my birthday request) and a, "Happy Birthdayyyyy!"

I was like, "Umm...we haven't done our party yet..."

He said, "I know but...here! Presents! Pie!"

Seriously! You are too cowardly to fricking text or call me so you try to find out about me thru my sister and when that doesn't work, you send bribes and "peace offerings" via my brother? For real? And now I'm obligated to send a thank you text or call her. She's forced my hand on her terms. I'm just so annoyed! Argh!

I hear you abbycadabby. The actions today just gave me more reinforcements. Unbelievable.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 11:18 PM, October 28th (Monday)

Aubrie,

You communicated your feelings when you met right? Did you tell them what behaviors are not ok with you?

No discounting Aubries feelings.
No interfering in parenting or disciplining Aub's and QS' kids.
No ...

Do they have to agree with everything you expressed? I wouldn't have expected them to see things the same way you did. They were looking at them from the other end but after some reflection some things will likely have sunk in. What's important is that you expressed yourself.

So you have boundaries. Do you have a plan for how to handle boundary testing or breaking?

With boundaries in place you and your family know how to act to be safe and healthy. You won't have to worry about controlling how the parentals act because you have a plan.

I'm probably missing something important but why are you guys waiting each other out? I think your mom is tiptoeing around it because this is new from you and she isn't ready to own her part of it and face it head on. That's her.

What do you want? Offer what you want on your terms and stick to your boundaries.

For example, we don't have holidays at my mother's house anymore. That was a long standing family tradition but since my mother's toxic husband has caused more family drama over the last several years than we feel is tolerable we don't go there anymore. We are just barely allowing him to our houses (my siblings and I) now and we will ask him to leave if we need to. We are just trying to figure out how to respect ourselves and others while dealing with the crazy.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1411 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:34 PM, October 28th (Monday)

At this point it is all about holding firm on your boundaries.

You don't have to cut your parents out of your life if you don't want to. So long as they adhere to the boundaries that you have in place. If they start 'poking' at those boundaries, then you *check* them.

Call and check-in with your mom. If she starts trying to make you toe your dad's line, then re-state your position. "love you guys, but I'm not putting up with <this shit> anymore." Or go over there for a visit....and if your parents start acting like jerks with your kids, then leave.

You expressed your new boundaries to them. It's okay to give them a chance to *get used to it*.....with you backing it up (because you KNOW that they are going to *test* them).

IMHO, it is too early in the game to just write them off.
Right now it is all about 'adjustment'. If your parents prove that they are unable to *handle* the adjustment, THEN more drastic measures may be in order (cutting them off completely). I just don't see this as a *one and done* situation......


eta: why do you need to call or text your mom because your brother showed up at your house with your most favoritest key lime pie? Unless he said that *mom told me to* bring this over....the parental units influence is irrelevant. And if he says that mom told him to do it....then that is an issue to bring up with your mom under your new-found *boundary* issue.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 11:38 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7923 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Topic Posts: 67