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User Topic: I Don't Remember
Camalus
Member
Member # 40199
Angry  Posted: 8:26 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

TMI and Language Warning!

Last night WW wanted to talk to me about her A. I think her IC is pushing her to open a dialog. I have wanted to postpone that conversation until MC. Anyway, she told me she was concerned about the questions I might want to ask because ďit was so long ago she canít remember a lot of detailsÖ.Ē

Bullshit! I donít remember is not an acceptable answer to questions about an affair.

Neither my WW nor I were virgins when we married. We had both had other partners in college and after until we met and became exclusive. I was not a Ďplayerí. I can count my partners on my fingers.

Even though it was over 35 years ago and in some cases as much as 43 years, I remember details of my girlfriends. I remember first kisses. I remember first caresses. I remember encounters. I remember where we went. I remember special holidays. I remember who like to cuddle and who didnít. I remember which of my girlfriends enjoyed oral and which didnít. I remember the girlfriend that discussed her sexual fantasies with me and what those fantasies were (which ultimately caused our breakup). I remember what we talked about. I remember discussing our hopes and dreams for the future. I remember, in excruciating detail, when and why we broke up.

If I can remember these types of details from between 35 and 43 years ago, does anyone really expect me to accept ďI canít rememberĒ as an answer to a question?

Itís not like Iím asking the exact date and time for something. Itís not like Iím asking for her to give me a verbatim recital of a particular conversation.

How are other BS handling the 'I don't remember' crap?


MeĖBS age 61
Her -- WS age 59
Married for 34 years
One child, 30yrs

Her 'A' 1994(?) through 1998
D-Day 7/4/2013 Yes, I didn't find out for almost 15 years... but the pain is just as bad as if she were with him last week.


Posts: 114 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Near Houston Texas
WhiteCarrera
Member
Member # 29126
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

I'm convinced that 99% of the time, "I don't remember" is code for "I don't want to tell you!"


If I want recovery, then I must allow for it to actually happen.
Is it possible that I actually do have all the truth now?

me - husband A46
her - wife A42
Married 17 years
D-Day August 2, 2009
3 kids 11, 13, and 15


Posts: 274 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Midwest
Fire96
Member
Member # 34131
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

Tired,

I'll tell you how I handle it....It drives me nuts.

I am like you, I remember every little detail.

I used to think that my wife "didn't remember" because she simply didnt want to tell me.

But now, I'm not so sure. She seems to have a severe memory issue remembering things, and I see it getting worse, two years out.

I don't know, but I strongly suspect that the fog and intoxication of the affair, and their double life, has really clouded their thinking.

I wish I knew the answer, because it drives me nuts.

What I did do, is ask her to write out the timeline. Her verbal answers were just all over the place, and were contradictory on each given day I asked.

The written timeline wasn't as specific as I would have liked, but it allowed her time to think about the dates and times, and refine what she had written.

Fire


Me, BS-54
WW-49
DD, 1/9/2011

Posts: 168 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Texas
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

"I don't know / I don't remember"


Is equal to:

"I know but I don't want to tell you because then I will have to deal with the fallout and the consequences..and because my feelings and what I want is more important than what you need."

[This message edited by confused615 at 8:45 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7319 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Lalagirl
Member
Member # 14576
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

I'm convinced that 99% of the time, "I don't remember" is code for "I don't want to tell you!"

I agree. IMO, this should be brought up in MC.


Me - 49; FWH - 51
Married 30 years 9/2/13
2 grown daughters-30 & 27
5yo GS & 20 mo. GD & GB #4 due 8/15(DD30) and 2.5 yo GD(DD27). D-day #1 - 1/06; D-day #2 - 3/07
Reconciled! Construction Complete.

Posts: 5027 | Registered: May 2007
simplydevastated
Member
Member # 25001
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

I'm convinced that 99% of the time, "I don't remember" is code for "I don't want to tell you!"

What WhiteCarrera said.

When I first confronted my husband I told him only a few bits and pieces. I told him that he had to tell me the rest for me to believe that he was finally honest with me. He kept saying "I don't remember." To me "I don't remember" means that he doesn't know what I know so he won't confess to anything else in fear that he may tell me something that I don't know, kwim?

How do I handle it? Not very well. Which is why I feel that I'm not on a roller coaster but more like a hamster wheel spinning round and round.

I'm a very detailed person and I remember everything (sometimes it's a curse more than a blessing) so I have a hard time believing in "I don't remember."

I explained to my husband, just as you said, that I wasn't looking for dates and times and if the moon was rising in the third house. I just wanted the gist of his emails and messages etc... All I ever heard was "I don't remember."

I personally feel that "I don't remember" is the reconciliation killer.

I hope some of my ramblings helped.


Me - BS, 39 (I'm not old...I'm vintage)
Two Wonderful children - DS10, DD7
Married, for now... (4+ D-Day - listed in profile.)

Posts: 5854 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: In the darkest depths of hell!
mixedintherut
Member
Member # 40330
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

Like others have said, "I don't know, I don't remember," means I don't want to tell you, so I am going to lie.

I call WH out on every single time. After hearing it 10 times in 5 minutes, it makes me bat shit crazy.

I feel like if a WS is truly going to work on R, "I don't know/I don't remember" should not be acceptable vocabulary.


DD 1: PA 12/4/09 He spent 2.5 years with OW1
R: 8/31/2012
DD 2: EA 8/16/13
BS: 26
WH: 25
1 young daughter.
Terribly disgusted. He refuses to give up his "friend". Headed towards D.

Posts: 136 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: kentucky
Scubachick
Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)

Nothing makes my blood boil like the words "I don't remember". I just want to punch him in the head when he says that. It's funny how they can remember details when it works in their favor. And when you push them to remember they accuse you of wanting them to make something up.
I don't think they realize the damage "not remembering" does. It's like a lie with a pretty little bow on it to disguise it.

Posts: 642 | Registered: Jul 2013
motod
New Member
Member # 37206
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

Your wife hid the truth of your marriage for almost 18 years and now she wants to hide the truth of her affair. White Carrera and confused615 hit the nail on the head on this one. Hopefully IC & MC will help overcome this obstacle.

How did you learn the OM's wife knew of the affair and why did she chose not to inform you?

How has your daughter reacted to this situation?


Posts: 9 | Registered: Oct 2012
cl131716
Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

Ugh I get the "I don't remember" line to. I hate that. Like everyone else says it means they don't want to tell you. I told WS last night that he can't possibly make me feel any worse so just tell me already. I don't remember pisses me off far more than if he just told the truth!


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
ak23123
New Member
Member # 40692
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

As the WS - I can safely tell you that there may be a lot of things we don't remember, not out of not wanting to tell the BS but because we actually don't remember.

I think all situations are different but sometimes you have to try your best to accept that an "I Don't Remember" really means that.


WS (me) - 32
BS - 37
18 month old baby

Posts: 13 | Registered: Sep 2013
mom of 2
Member
Member # 11214
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

"I don't know / I don't remember"


Is equal to:

"I know but I don't want to tell you because then I will have to deal with the fallout and the consequences..and because my feelings and what I want is more important than what you need."

I completely agree. And the above was the kiss of death of my marriage.

No disrespect, ak23123. We BS appreciate your input.


Me: BW
Divorced after 23 years of M thanks to XH's truth trickle.
Status: Recovering and healing. It's going to be a long hard road.

Update November 2013: It only took seven years but I finally turned a corner. :)


Posts: 13296 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: The suburbs of hell
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

I would be willing to bet that if your wife put her mind to it, she would be able to remember all of your "shortcomings" that were used to justify her affair back in the day. If she can do this, then I am sure that she can work on remembering her past.

But that being said, your wife is obviously a great compartmentalizer. She was never going to tell you because either she is that bad of a person, or the above mentioned ability to compartmentalize. If she is that good at stuffing away her issues, then it is a possibility that remembering is difficult.

But just because it is difficult, does not mean it is impossible. Does she seem to make a serious effort before the standard "I don't know" response?


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2042 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
RidingHealingRd
Member
Member # 33867
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

I doubt that she has forgotten everything but her A was 14 years ago. My memory is not too bad but it certainly does not match yours.

Has your wife abused alcohol in the past?
My WH was a functioning alcoholic for 30 yrs. Although he stopped drinking on Dday (3yrs ago), he has what 2 doctors stated: severe memory issues. He has had several tests including MRI brain scan, neuropsychological testing, and has seen two neurologists but we do not have any answers. I do believe part of his memory issue stems from alcohol.

My WH was able to answer my questions for about a year after Dday but it seems that after having major surgery (had never had surgery of any kind before) he suffers from CRS: can't remember shit.

Seriously, he doesn't remember what HS he went to, did not recognize a house we once lived in, can't remember DS 2011 college graduation and yes, can't remember much A information. I don't know what to think. It's more like complete amnesia of his entire past.

I read that your WW had major surgery. Have you heard of post-operative cognitive dysfunction (POCD)?

It can occur with general anesthesia but is not that common. Patients, usually older ones, can suffer memory loss that can last for more than a year or it can ameliorate much sooner. In some cases, physicians have found memory impairment to continue into old age. To date, there is no known way to reverse the memory loss, other than allowing it to resolve on its own.

I also wonder about the possibility of:

dissociative disorders which are sometimes triggered by trauma, but may be preceded only by stress, psychoactive substances, or no identifiable trigger at all.

In mild cases, dissociation can be regarded as a coping mechanism or defense mechanisms in seeking to master, minimize or tolerate stress

God knows the stress that the WS/BS are experiencing is often extreme. Can the WS effectively and completely "block out"
the A? I wish I knew.

Not looking for excuses here just trying to understand.

It is so frustrating. I will say you will get more answers if your WW does not feel like you will explode at her every answer. Something that I had to learn to control.

I hope that if she does have the answers she tells you.


ME: 54 BS
HIM: 61 WH
Married: 28 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 3.5 years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.


Posts: 2109 | Registered: Nov 2011
Thessalian
Member
Member # 40633
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

I just posted something similar in this thread:

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=509031

But I'll say it again here. Why not try "Start from the minute you [insert last detail you have here, like 'walked in the door', or 'got in the car']. What DO you remember? Walk me through it, bit by bit."

I found that if I was tenacious enough with this, WS broke eventually, or the second time I made him tell a day later, the details were different, etc.


Me: BW, 30
Him: WH, 36

7 years of double-digit ONS, LTA, hookers - the works.

First found out: August 20, 2013
Whole truth: January 1, 2014


Posts: 163 | Registered: Sep 2013
Dreamland
Member
Member # 40488
Default  Posted: 12:06 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

WhiteCarrera...you are so right

I'm convinced that 99% of the time, "I don't remember" is code for "I don't want to tell you!"😖😭😡

I hate hearing it.. I can remember almost everything.. I also have an almost photographic memory so I can quote him their emails &text...and more.. But he can't fucking remember what and when and how many times he fucked the bitch???
💔💔💔


Me-BS 50 Him-WH 47, DD17
Together since 1993, Married 19 yrs
DDay 3/12,4/12,7/12 EA-PA OW - 25 single husband chasing bastard whore

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013
AML04
Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 6:40 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

I know I'm in the minority here but I really think my H doesn't remember a lot. I got the major details but he doesn't remember some stuff I think he should. I believe part of it is because he put those memories down when he was with me and vise versa. He didn't hold onto them so therefore they're not easy to recall.

I also think it is possible for them to remember if they really try. Getting them to do that is the hard part. They don't want to face what they did.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
T-13 M-9
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13.
Hopeful for R

Posts: 844 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
Camalus
Member
Member # 40199
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

To answer a few questions people have posted:

Iíve been told by three people (couples that were in WW's circle of friends when we lived in Atlanta)the A ended when OMís BS found out in í98. I do not know why she didnít contact me. Embarrassment? Fear? I have not attempted to contact her. I have considered approaching her through a third party to see if she would be willing to talk either via phone or email.

I have not told daughter who is now in her thirties. DD and WW have had a strained relationship for many years. I think if WW comes clean with DD it may go a long way to repairing their relationship. Ultimately, I will leave it up to WW.

To the best of my knowledge, WW has never abused drugs or alcohol. We both will enjoy a drink or two but seldom allow ourselves to get beyond a Ďbuzzí and typically then only around the holidays.


MeĖBS age 61
Her -- WS age 59
Married for 34 years
One child, 30yrs

Her 'A' 1994(?) through 1998
D-Day 7/4/2013 Yes, I didn't find out for almost 15 years... but the pain is just as bad as if she were with him last week.


Posts: 114 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Near Houston Texas
TrulySad
Member
Member # 39652
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

This is one of my biggest issues. To me, it seems then, that if I accept that excuse, I'm accepting another lie.

How is it that they can remember what they had for breakfast, May 16th, 1998...yet they can't remember details of something so worth losing ME over???

My stand on this is I chose not to believe this excuse.

With that said, I do know from personal experience, that the pain of an event can be so severe that I chose not to go there. I don't want to have the image in my head, so I push it away. They are feelings I don't want to tap into again. I haven't forgotten them, instead I've chosen to compartmentalize them. Lock them away.

I realize in most of the W's cases...they say they don't remember because it's easier than admitting the truth. Essentially, they are cowards, and not fully in R. I do think there is a possibility that some W's feel such remorse, that they don't want to revisit the "crime" in their mind. And they don't want to form the words on their tongue. It's too hard to face what they've done.

What they don't understand, is the truth and all details becomes as needed for the survival of the relationship as air is to live.


Me: Sad, but I will survive

True Love: What I have for my beautiful children.


Posts: 444 | Registered: Jun 2013
SoOver96
Member
Member # 40169
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

It's just like teens saying I dont know or I don't remember they dont want to say nothing for fear of what the outcome will be.

You said this happened 14 years ago? Are you just finding out? If so I'm sorry even if it was sooner I'm sorry... No matter what is going on in the marriage there is absolutely nothing that should make someone cheat on their spouse


Posts: 171 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Illinois
self-rescuer
Member
Member # 35059
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

When I kicked xwh out of our house because he couldn't decide who he loved more - me or the OW - I asked what his girlfriend thought about him being out of our home. His response was "I don't remember if I told her".

Even that early in the misery I remember laughing at his statement. He was still banging her but he couldn't remember if he told her we had separated.

So, nope, I never handled the I can't remember statement well!!


BW 53
WXH 55
married 26 yrs
D-Day 9-15-11

Divorce final 3-13-13

Just trust yourself, then you will know how to live.
~ Goethe


Posts: 498 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: the south
Expect Delays
Member
Member # 23981
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

I think some people cultivate a poor memory. If they don't remember, they don't have to take responsibility, feel bad, or whatever emotion or behavior they are desperate to avoid.

I have witnessed the "poor memory" coping mechanism in behaviors not related to an affair, not just with my husband, but also my dad, my grandmother, and, oh, so many others.

Do I believe that my husband "couldn't remember" in the sense that he didn't want to admit certain things to me? Absolutely. I'd be naÔve to believe otherwise.

However, I also believe that many things he simply couldn't remember because he never wanted to remember. Could I have walked him slowly and determinedly through the previous twenty years and extracted more information from him? Probably. And I probably did to an extent. (It is rather amazing how much I have forgotten about the initial months.)

I think, in the end, for me, I just had other battles to win. We all have to choose which battles are the ones we need to win, which battles are worth the scars. And this one simply wasn't for me. For others, it is.


A great name for a new country song: If I'd Shot You Sooner, I'd Be Out of Jail By Now.

Posts: 710 | Registered: May 2009
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

My memory sucks. My FWH memory sucks. We both have always had this problem. I mean, we can remember things in general, but the nitty gritty details, yeah, not so much.
I remember first kisses. I remember first caresses. I remember encounters. I remember where we went.
See, I don't remember those kinds of details. I don't even remember some of their names. (I am the BS and these are men before I met my FWH.)

FWH tries to answer my questions and does the best he can. When he tells me he doesn't remember something, I tend to believe him.

Some people do have poor memories.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:57 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9543 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Tred
Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

In general, I guess you'd have to look at your spouses body of work in the past to determine if the "I don't remember" line is being evasive or honest. If your spouse has a history of poor memory, then it is more likely that the line isn't a copout - but if they previously had fairly decent recall of events, and have affair amnesia, then they are probably evading telling you the truth.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3868 | Registered: Dec 2011
Herkemeyer
Member
Member # 36910
DOH!  Posted: 9:20 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

My WW can spit out damn near any grammar rule of the English language, but she can't remember shit about the A. HMMMM...

[This message edited by Herkemeyer at 9:21 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 123 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
Camalus
Member
Member # 40199
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

WW has an excellent memory.

She can recite citations verbatim from different things she has read; she can close her eyes, visualize then describe places we have been.

A few weeks ago DD said something about her sweet-sixteen party (that was 15 years ago) WW remembered details DD had forgotten including the names of the people that attended.


MeĖBS age 61
Her -- WS age 59
Married for 34 years
One child, 30yrs

Her 'A' 1994(?) through 1998
D-Day 7/4/2013 Yes, I didn't find out for almost 15 years... but the pain is just as bad as if she were with him last week.


Posts: 114 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Near Houston Texas
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

Yah, "I don't remember" is BS 98% of the time. You need to have a clear boundary on this. It was expressed one time, and I was so angry If I'd of had a weapon handy I would have used it. I then said, I will not tolerate that as an anwer just to get you off the hook, if you respond with I don't remember one, expect me to respond with the assumption that you are lying, or hiding something, and in turn get really pissy about everything.
Also be prepared for a whole bunch more questions.

Now my H is notoriously horrible for remembering things. So even with finding out about the A while it was ongoing, there were some real things he couldn't remember, however, he was able to give generalizations, and enough information if he didn't remember specifics.

In your situation, there may honestly be details she may not remember, being in the A fog, telling so many lies to cover her tracks, it gets confused in the mind. The important thing to remember is the fine details really won't matter, it's the feelings that accompany those things that are in question.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8229 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Eudaimonia
Member
Member # 32445
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

In general, I guess you''d have to look at your spouses body of work in the past to determine if the "I don''t remember" line is being evasive or honest. If your spouse has a history of poor memory, then it is more likely that the line isn''t a copout - but if they previously had fairly decent recall of events, and have affair amnesia, then they are probably evading telling you the truth.

This^ definitely.

In our case, I got a LOT of "I don''t remembers". Then, WH suffered a TBI a few months ago. A bad one. After that, I would have been willing to buy the "I don''t remember." It would have made sense. HOWEVER, not just one, but a TEAM of neuropsychologists informed me that that is not possible. He DOES remember and he DOES owe it to me to tell me the truth about what has been going on throughout the entire duration of our marriage. I would have given him a free pass on the memory thing, but according to the pros, not applicable and certainly not healthy.

Even more recently, I have received, from WS, a 150+ page explanation (RPP) of his "whys" and "who he is/was", "how he''s changed", "what he''s learned from therapy", etc., which is awesome, it is. But, it also confirms, in his own words, that he DID and DOES remember everything. He''s now working on his 15 or 16th version of disclosure (which was NOT included in his explanation), so we''ll see what happens there. I''m skeptical.

He does not use the words "I don''t remember" anymore. I do let it slide when he uses the phrase, "I am still trying to untangle the mess of wires in my head." -for now.


So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Posts: 472 | Registered: Jun 2011
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

My memory sucks

Yep. If I say I don't remember, I don't. But then again I didn't remember our anniversary date...21st 22nd always picked the wrong one.

I do remember telling the OP I knew why his eyes were brown. Turns out they were green. Oh well, my bad.

If they don't remember, they don't have to take responsibility, feel bad, or whatever emotion or behavior they are desperate to avoid

Not always true at all. I may not remember events but I ALWAYS remember feelings and if I feel like shit about something I will absolutely remember the behavior as a whole even if the details are shit.

Memory is very unreliable, y'all do realize this right? The brain lies to us all the time. That's why eye witness accounts are so horribly inaccurate and people were/are rotting in jail based on someones faulty memory.

I remembered a very horrific memory from childhood. Still have the scar. Was quite certain what I was wearing and what the weather was. Found an old picture...6th b day. Nope. Completely different outfit and it was raining. Doesn't change what happened at all. Wish it could.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Tred
Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

UO, I agree that memory is fallible - that's why I'd look at their previous behavior. Each individual is different, and confusing dates isn't "I don't remember", it's remembering wrong details. It's when a spouse that normally has decent recall can't remember what would normally be obvious details is when I start to believe they are engaging in selective amnesia. It's like the question "did you jump out of an airplane together" shouldn't be a "I don't remember" question. Did you take nude videos/naked pictures/sext, etc are things I would say they would probably remember. Especially binary questions - did you have dinner together versus what was your side of vegetables.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3868 | Registered: Dec 2011
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

Great article about this. Scientists are actually trying to find a way to re-write it even more to help with trauma

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/mental-memory-is-unreliable-and-it-could-be-worse-091313


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

I know I didn't expect WH to remember every.little.detail.

And..I do realize a lot depends on if it was a LTA,ONS,etc. I would imagine those in a LTA would have trouble remembering every time they had sex with AP..and other details.

But when a BS asks...where did you have sex? Did you have sex in this position? Did you give her/him oral? Did you have sex in our home/car/bed? Does your buddy know? Why did you tell that girl on craigslist that you were looking for a girl in the same area you work? Etc..etc...etc..THOSE things? yeah..those things are things I think most WS's would remember.

I was told "I don't remember" for two years. Then it was,"It's been 2 years..it's been too long!! I don't know!!"

Um...until a few months ago. I was lucky enough to watch my WH "get it." Something happened,and since then,he has been a changed man.

Oh! And wouldn't you know it? He suddenly has had a great improvement with his memory.



BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7319 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

My sister and I have very vivid detailed memory brains. I can remember snippets of my first birthday, not just the party, but small details like sitting in the high chair in front of the window air conditioner and freezing. When my H started with the I do not remember crap I refused to believe him. He had just lived out his fantasy and he did not remember?

I was right. He later told me he did remember but was too ashamed to admit his actions. It took way too long for him to "get his memory back".


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1457 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

I can remember snippets

Sure. You might be very surprised to find out that hard coded memory was completely false. And yeah, that does happen quite often. The brain fills in our "holes" using past events and patterns to do so.

What is remembered may not be so, "well, of course now they do".

Bottom line. We know what our choices were, why those choices were a hot mess for us and others and how we fix them. If we don't, whether we said xyz, blew someone on a couch on Tues doesn't change a thing.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Eudaimonia
Member
Member # 32445
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, September 26th (Thursday)

I may not remember events but I ALWAYS remember feelings and if I feel like shit about something I will absolutely remember the behavior as a whole even if the details are shit.

This is soooo true here, too. And, well-for me-, I think that it''s fair that WH (bare minimum) comes clean on the behaviors so that I can make an informed assessment of what I am dealing with. (I keep saying "I" because I don''t want to speak for anyone else''s situation). I don''t need explicit details, nor do I expect him to remember what any of his OW or OM were wearing, etc. I know that he did not care, so why should he remember? But, completely forgetting years of weekly(?) hookups with a single OW? How do you forget entire years of sex with one person? I ''think'' I would buy it if it were just random hookups on C/L or something, but then why "just" the one?
None of it adds up.



So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Posts: 472 | Registered: Jun 2011
Razor
Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

If I can remember these types of details from between 35 and 43 years ago, does anyone really expect me to accept ďI canít rememberĒ as an answer to a question?

Itís not like Iím asking the exact date and time for something. Itís not like Iím asking for her to give me a verbatim recital of a particular conversation.

My WW can recite the entire litany of missteps blunders and literally every single thing I ever did in our relationship that she felt was wrong or hurtful.

And yet if I ask her which beach by the seashore they went to and referred to as *their beach* she doesnt remember. If I ask her if they went here or there she doesnt remember.

I have come to think that *I dont remember* is the perfect shield they hide their affair activity behind. My WW knows I needed this information to heal. I have told her that many times. And yet she hides behind *I dont remember*.

All any of us can do is guess why our WS hides this information from us. My guess is that the reason my WW keeps these secrets is 1 of or a combination of 2 reasons.

1 is she wants to avoid consequences of her actions. That she did a thing that I will never get over. Consequences can be her own feeling bad because of my pain (its never really my pain she wants to avoid IMO but her feeling bad because of it) OR that I will possibly have enough and file for D.

2 is she wants to shield her precious memories of love and romance with OM. I have seen a (very) few of their letters to each others. They were in love. Deeply in love with each other. I suppose there are some happy memories she still has of being with OM. And saying *I dont remember* protects those memories from becoming ugly when they are associated with the consequences of telling the truth.

I know now that I will NEVER get those answers. How do I live with that?

I gave up wanting to know. I came to realize that those things she hides behind that shield of *I dont remember* dont really matter to me. She can have those seedy steamy nasty memories all she wants. They are hers. She can have them and keep them as she chooses. I dont want them soiling my life.

Not knowing of course prevents my forgiving her because how can I forgive when I dont know WHAT I am forgiving. If I can live with not forgiving then she can live with not being forgiven.

In the end I have moved on. We are still together. Still M. But I dont love her any more. We are friends that have a past together. We enjoy many shared interests and of course have our children and grand children in common. We also maintain financial stability by remaining M.

How do I deal with the *I dont remember*? I gave up and said f**k it and moved on with my life.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3429 | Registered: Sep 2007
stupidgirlme
New Member
Member # 38778
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

I would have to agree with the responses that I have read so far.

"I don't know" seems to be the protection they need. It's a way to not have to answer any question that will make them uncomfortable.

When I called the ho, she pulled that on me as well, and I called her on it; "you can't remember what you told him just last week!?"

I find it funny that my WH has mentioned to her that his excellent memory is a curse because he remembers every hurtful thing he has said to her (no mention of my hurt, of course) but that same excellent memory doesn't remember if they were in contact three days ago or not.

From my personal experience, when they play the Ignorant Card, it's always to cover up something they want to keep hidden.

So sorry you are dealing with this!


~~I love listening to lies when I know the truth~~

Posts: 47 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Florida
kickboxer
Member
Member # 39858
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

"I don't remember" could eat me alive.

He has a very good memory. His brain is full of facts about this and that -- I refuse to play Trivial Pursuit with him, because he just seems to know so much crap! From sports stats to old song lyrics, he's never given me any reason to believe he wouldn't be capable of remembering the details that nearly ripped our family to shreds.

And so it is what it is...for now, anyway. I've found myself revisiting the early days of my discovery, and things that didn't seem important then, make more sense and feel more important now. I'm realizing the magnitude of some of the information I previously thought was inconsequential.

I have no doubt that, one day, I'll work through this phase and be left with all his "I don't knows"...not sure what will happen then.


BW - 42 (Me)
WH - 39 (2 ONS, 6m EA)
Married 13 years, 3 children
DD: 7/13/13
Status: Rugsweeping, I guess.

Posts: 248 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere Out There
2oldforthis
Member
Member # 19825
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Oh, how I hate the I don't remember. WS said that all the time. I am one of those that the A did go back a long time ago however, I was asking him what his thoughts of her were. How did he feel about her, was he in love, did he think about leaving. He would not answer those questions about his feelings. However he could tell me several things that she had said to him. I said he had quite the memory for her words. Of which were all lies out of a sociopath.

When Dr. Phil hears someone say, they don't remember. He says,

"Well if you did what would it be?"

[This message edited by 2oldforthis at 5:43 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


He did not see what he had in me, what I saw in him I did not have!

Love kills slowly.


Posts: 1640 | Registered: Jun 2008
Topic Posts: 39