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Just Found Out
User Topic: 3 weeks after Dday
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Helpless  Posted: 7:32 PM, September 13th (Friday)

I found out on 8/21/13 my wife is having an affair with another man she knows through business networking. I had a gut feeling something was wrong maybe a month or two prior. Even asked her if she met someone, but she denied it.
Finally I looked at her email account and found evidence. I confronted her and she admitted an emotional affair with the OP. This was Wednesday night. Two days later she and the OP met at a hotel and made the affair a physical one. She also got another cell phone and changed passwords on her PC, old phone, FB, everything.

For the first two weeks I felt devastation, desperation, and anger which was delayed a few days but came on strongly. She has not really shown remorse or guilt. Nor has she been empathetic with the hurt and anger that I'm feeling. The only way I could get her to talk was by threatening to leave or by threatening to tell the OP's wife (which I eventually figured out). She went to a lawyer for a consultation (but not to start any divorce or separation action). She says she needs time to figure out what she wants. Says she didn't intend to leave our marriage. But she says she loves me less now because of my anger and that I have been snooping on her.

It sounds pretty hopeless to me. Anyway, started the 180 about 5 days ago. Also consulted with a divorce atty just to see what my options are and what to expect.

What does everyone think? Is it too late? Should I cut my losses and start over? I'm thinking why suffer through trying to work it out when I do not see any remorse from her. Does the remorse come later because she is in the "Fog" I see people talking about?

I am really confused, because she has done some hopeful things. She met a counselor for some IC. And it planning to go again next week. She has been staying home at night. (used to be out 3-4 times a week). Says she has not seen or talked to OP, but I dont really trust her anymore. Since I have started the 180, she is acting a little more nicer and talking a bit more.

I have not felt this bad before.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, September 13th (Friday)

I've been through something similar so I know exactly what you're talking about. We are close to the same age. Listen...your WW like mine left the marriage a long time ago but were too chickenshit to talk to us. They never told us something was wrong. She has met with an attorney. Generally once a woman has done this the course is set.

She's being nicer to you because she's not sure what you are doing. The 180 has confused her because you aren't chasing her. And don't chase her. It's the mistake I made. Even if you do R, could you ever be with her again knowing she had sex with another man? It takes time to digest these things through. Right now you feel completely lost and all you can think is WTF just happened?

Know that this has nothing to do with you. It's all on her. You have to be very hard with her right now. Screw this "You were angry with me" crap. Of course you should be angry! That's nothing but blameshifting on her part. Best thing to do is go very dark on her. And begin making plans. Let me know if you need more support. Stay strong...you did nothing wrong.

[This message edited by SeanFLA at 8:06 PM, September 13th (Friday)]


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1472 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, September 13th (Friday)

She wants the OM and her marriage; now she has to figure out a way to get both.

My guess is she will take the affair underground and convince you that her cheating is totally over. It will mean seeing the OM less for a while, but thats the price she is prepared to pay for keeping her family intact. So be vigilant; your WW has no remorse and this affair is alive and kicking.

I noted the insult she payed you; admitting the affair then marching out and sleeping with the OM to make it a PA. Not much respect there. You might consider asking her to leave; at least she wouldn't be committing adultery and living at home


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Broken1Again
Member
Member # 32211
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, September 13th (Friday)

Sorry you have had to find yourself in need of this forum, but it is the best place for support when you do need it.

You are on the right track with the 180. Keep doing what you are doing. Keep her guessing for a change as to what you are doing and thinking. Like the previous poster said, "go Dark". I know it doesn't help your reeling emotions though. The only thing that will help those is time.

She needs to figure her sh!t out and so do you. Remember this is a marathon and not a sprint. If she wants out then she wants out, but if you don't know what you want, then take your time to decide. You will go through a seesaw of emotions none of which will give you the right answer. Take your time. See if she gets remorseful. Right now she is like a child, angry because you caught her hand in the cookie jar and grounded her. So now she's throwing a tantrum and blaming you for being a bad parent and leaving the cookie jar out in the open as tempation (ie...things you did in the marriage specifically led her to the A). It is not on you. It is on her.


BS: 40
WS: 42
Two boys 13/11
Married 15 years
Dday: too Many to remember. 3 significant OW and many "less"'significant OW. Believe WS has bad boundaries and craves the attention.
In R.

Posts: 883 | Registered: May 2011
Broken1Again
Member
Member # 32211
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, September 13th (Friday)

And yes...if she slept with him after you found out, 2 days later, I'd be packing her bags pronto...


BS: 40
WS: 42
Two boys 13/11
Married 15 years
Dday: too Many to remember. 3 significant OW and many "less"'significant OW. Believe WS has bad boundaries and craves the attention.
In R.

Posts: 883 | Registered: May 2011
LMYE
New Member
Member # 34561
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, September 13th (Friday)

Sorry you find your self here coda87.What is it you're looking for? To save the marriage? If so and to have a chance then you have to really make sure the affair is over.

One of the best things you can do is tell the OM's wife.He may just throw your wife under the bus to try and save his own marriage.


Posts: 42 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: canada
sunsetslost
Member
Member # 39885
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, September 13th (Friday)

Your only obligation is to your self. It is so important to hydrate. Drink water. Eat good food. Don't over do it on booze. Examine your relationship but don't accept guilt. Prepare yourself legally, financially and emotionally. It's going to be a fight. If she's not fighting then you throw in the towel. Get better. It gets better. Hugs. Support. Strength. It's there. We are here for you.


Divorced 7/11/14. New Beginning on the Gulf of Mexico. It's real nice.

Posts: 780 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: The beach.
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:15 AM, September 14th (Saturday)

Thanks for all your comments. I'm really trying to understand what she is thinking. But I guess I will just give it time and see what happens. I am seriously considering telling the OP's wife. At first my WW didn't want me to do this. But the other day she say I should if I want to. Now I am wondering maybe she wants to see the OP's reaction once his wife knows. If his wife leaves him, or he leaves his wife, I could backfire on me. I have to consider this carefully. I will definitely continue with the 180 though.

Aloha to all of you.

[This message edited by coda87 at 2:15 AM, September 14th (Saturday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Smokehouse
Member
Member # 40203
Angry  Posted: 4:03 AM, September 14th (Saturday)

I was in the same boat as you are now. Tell the other BS or not. If I do, he might become available and I lose my wife. You have lost her already! Maybe not totally and for good, but, she is not even considering you, your pain and well being. Not considering her marriage to you, the vows you took, the promises that were made.

The other BS needs to know so she can at least have the opportunity to make a decision herself. My opinion is she is lying to you about not having contact with the AP. why wouldn't she? You know the AP is wondering if you are going to tell his wife, you know they have talked about this! Her telling you to go ahead and contact his BS is not what she really wants. My wife protected her AP every step of the way. I too, was worried he would leave his BS or she would kick him out and they would be together. I struggled with this for over a month. I felt extreme guilt for not telling the OM's wife. If she had discovered it and not told me, I would have felt betrayed by her. She has a right to know.

IMO, the affair has went underground. Shining light on the affair will have them scurrying like cockroaches in different directions. It will force your wife to deal with the betrayal! Don't help the affair by not telling the AP's betrayed spouse. It will also give you some relief. My guilt lifted almost immediately. My wife's AP did not want to lose his marriage. Also, you may gain an ally. Two monitoring the both puts you in control.

Pull your cell phone bills for the times and length you find out it was going on. Send the emails to yourself, print them off to give to the other BS. Keep copies for yourself in case your lawyer needs them

Take care of yourself. It will feel robotic for a while, but you need to be strong physically to deal with the mental aspect of it all. It is truly devastating.

BS-49
WW-33
DDay #1-07/21/13
DDay #2-08/15/13 secret cell phone discovered!
Trying to heal myself. Working towards a day when true reconciliation can begin!

[This message edited by Smokehouse at 4:06 AM, September 14th (Saturday)]


Posts: 166 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Ohio
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:08 AM, September 14th (Saturday)

But the other day she say I should if I want to. Now I am wondering maybe she wants to see the OP's reaction once his wife knows. If his wife leaves him, or he leaves his wife, I could backfire on me. I have to consider this carefully.

What can backfire on you? That OM will become available and your wife will go to him?

That is not a backfire, that is merely an indicator of what kind of reconcilable material your wife is made of. Ask yourself---do you want your wife to stay with you simply because the OM hasn't left his home? Do you want to be her 2nd or 3rd choice?

This is not a competition. If you feel that you have to vie for your wife's attention with other men, then you are better off getting out of this marriage today. If you don't have a spouse that is behind you 100%, then what are you fighting for?

Yes, obviously she isn't 100% behind you right now---if she always was, then you wouldn't be on an infidelity website. But, you have to realize that you can not win her back--all that you can do is show her that (1) what she is willing to lose, and (2) that you and the marriage were not a bad place to begin with. That is it...nothing more. If she doesn't want to be a part of that, then you are fighting a one-sided battle. And I can assure you...no, GUARANTEE YOU...that tiptoeing around topics that should never even have to be considered in a marriage, is a recipe for a long, drawn out, failure.

Don't fear her leaving. Don't fear anything related to the affair. You can be upset if the marriage doesn't make it, but never fear it....because acting upon fear will be one of your biggest regrets in the future.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 5:10 AM, September 14th (Saturday)]


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2114 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
kannan
Member
Member # 36057
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

she wants to see the OP's reaction once his wife knows. If his wife leaves him, or he leaves his wife, I could backfire on me. I have to consider this carefully.

How can it back fire you? You are scared that if he got booted out your wife will run for him. Why you wanted to be with a wife for whom you are a second prize? Why you are ready to settle with the second prize? Scared, REALLY?


Posts: 139 | Registered: Jul 2012
cluless
Member
Member # 40538
Angry  Posted: 12:55 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

I'm about a week behind you from the true D-Day. I was reading what you wrote, when your wife wrote this:

But she says she loves me less now because of my anger and that I have been snooping on her.

Have you heard of emotional blackmail? THAT is a LOAD of crap! Don't you ever feel or apologize for what SHE did to YOU. I love how our spouses try to put the blame on us somehow, if we were this or if we were that... that's all bull shit.

Go get that book, and really read it. If she is truly remorseful she will drop to her knees and beg your forgiveness. Sounds like to me she went full steam ahead into the affair. There is another book I've been reading that might help, it's called After the Affair by Janis Abrahms Spring.

You have GOT to read this too. Delve in and you will know what you need to find out so you can make a decision. I'm spinning out of control myself, I drank an entire bottle of wine last night (and I'm not a drinker) and threw up for 2 hours. I feel like I'm dying inside, a little at a time. Hang in there, educate yourself about the TRUTH. Don't you let her make this about you, this is all about herself and her selfishness.

Hang in there...


WH 57
BS 55 -- Me!
LTA EA/PA 1-1/2 years.
D-Day 8-12, 2nd D-Day 9-13, 3rd D-Day 10-13 (stopped counting tt still coming in)
Married 17 yrs, together 20.
MC & IC has been a JOKE.

Status: In careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels and starti


Posts: 166 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oceanside
hurtsobadinside
Member
Member # 35308
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

You have just rec'd some great advice. The one thing you neeed to accept is
You cannot NICE your WW back into your marriage

She has to come back on her own. She is in a mojor fog right now...and that PA hookup was a selfish attempt feel safe with her AP in what she doesnt realize at this time is a fake "make believe" world.

You need to advise the AP's faithful wife ...do it NOW
...dont tell your wayward wife you are going to do this... do not let her know at all say nothing to her

just do it and watch what happens then....if AP tells your WW what you did, you will know contact is continuing... and at this time she prefers to protect her AP over you, the children and your marriage.
but once its outed, that all can change.
then when he goes back to his betrayed wife to R,you can define your terms of "R". to her

In my case, i not only notified the AP's wife, I kept contact with her and we both kept watch on our waywards until real NC took place...which was about 3 mos after I confronted.

Also, I purchased a SIM card reader and retreived all her texts and pictures off her cell including "deleted" pics and texts.

When she gave me the song and dance about how dare i investigage her etc..
(while she also had that deer in headlights look) which sounds like the same look your WW had (its part of the fog) i told her "I HAD EVERY RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN MY MARRIAGE-JUST AS SHE WOULD IF THIS WAS REVERSED"
AND... she had nothing to say.. how do you respond to that to agrue you cant...

Now the AP's faithful wife also has that right... to this day she thanks me for calling her.

Sending you strength to get thru this mess...you had no vote counted in the decisioin about your wife's "A".. do they work at the same company? if so, you can contact their HR dept and both may get fired, this is expecially safisfying if they do leave both of you and attempt to live in their make believe world/ Will be hard with no jobs.


ME: 59 BS
Her: 57 WW
married 25 yrs
knew each other 27 yrs.
her : LTA (PA & EA) former boss 7 yrs.(maybe 10?)
D- 24 yrs old former Eating disorder left wtih OCB
D-day Early March 2012
Confrontation-day: late April 2012
Lies, TT, rug sweeping, blame placing and fog months
NC: april 2012 -broke N/C immediately
lies about NC for 3 months
True NC: july 2012
I "outed " the "A" to her AP's wife and we kept in contact to assure complete N/C was maintained
IN "R" and its been a roller-coaster ride just like everyone has said


Posts: 151 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Illinois
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

Just a update, now 4 weeks after Dday. My WW is very reluctant to talk about the affair and our future. So every few days I bring up the subject, she gets defensive, I get angry. She says everytime I do this it weakens what love she has left for me. She admitted she still texts her AP on a second phone that she got. I am not sure if they are seeing each other in person during the daytime, because I am at work. But she has been staying home every night the last several weeks.

She went to a therapist for one session of IC. Then yesterday asked me to go together to see the therapist which I agreed to do.
I'm not sure I learned anything that I didn't already know during the session. But at least the discussion didn't breakdown into a fight like when we talk about it at home. The therapist recommended that we only discuss the Affair/Marriage issues during therapy. I said I would try.

My WW wants to take a one week vacation away from our family and me to think things over. I am not sure if that it really what she wants or if she wants the time to see her AP. Anyway I can't stop her.

I'm still try to do the 180, but end up breaking some of the rules. I'm trying to detach emotionally from her but finding it very hard to do. A couple times I felt so depressed/hopeless I had minor anxiety/panic attacks.

What I dont understand it that she pretty much has 100% of the information about whats going on with herself, her AP (he is married and has two kids), and I have told her how I feel/what I want. So why can't she make up her mind? Pretty much only know how I feel since she wont share much details with me about her or her AP. Why does she need over month to think about things. Any one else have a similar experience with the WW/WH?


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Stillkicking
Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

Welcome coda, sorry about your situation but we have a great support system here and I am happy you found us. That being said...

My WW wants to take a one week vacation away from our family and me to think things over. I am not sure if that it really what she wants or if she wants the time to see her AP. Anyway I can't stop her.

This means that she wants to go spend time with her AP without you getting in the way, don't fall for her bullshit. Stand up for yourself and put an end to her calling the shots.

What if the OM's wife knew about the affair and you didn't? Wouldn't you want to know what your wife was doing behind your back? You need to tell her right away, this will also give you another set of eyes. Affairs do not survive the light of day, they live in dark corners of secrets and lies.

Somebody already said but it can't be said enough... YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO NICE YOUR WIFE BACK. It just doesn't fucking work, I tried and tried, but you know what worked? When on my birthday her and I where supposed to go out for a drink after work and she decided to blow me off for the posom, I told her fine went home packed my shit and told her I would not fucking be there when she got home. She was home before I even finished packing.

Stand up for yourself and put a stop to her calling the shots brother. Out the OM to his wife put your foot down and say enough is enough. Either she stops all contact with this bag of shit or you walk.

Keep your chin up, drink lots of water and make sure you are eating, and buckle up its gonna be one hell of rough ride.
Coda87)))))))) (Side man hugs)


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

Maybe your WW leaving for a week will help YOU detach, since it sounds like your WW already has.

That week will be spent with the OM so that she can make sure that he's her "soul mate".

Talk to a lawyer ASAP.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 3:27 PM, September 19th (Thursday)]


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 493 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
TheClimb
Member
Member # 25895
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

Coda:

The only way you even have a chance of stopping this affair is to tell the OM's wife. Do not tell your wife what you are about to do.

Affairs are like vampires; they avoid the light. They thrive in secrecy. Expose them both; let some light in.

Please trust us "old guys" here, you can never love them back into the marriage. The only chance your marriage has now is for you to be prepared to end it. RUN to your attorney and get the divorce papers drawn up. If your state allows it, use Adultery as the grounds. Have her served; don't tell her anything that you are planning.

You need to be serious about this. My husband wouldn't stop seeing and screwing his whore either until the day I told her in front of him that she could have him. That was some serious shit that day!

I wish I could say that things improved after that. He stopped seeing her and talking to her but still had some of the same shitty attitude as your wife. Even in reconciliation it is a tough road and you won't forget how shitty she was in these early days.

Please, please tell the OM's wife. Watch the frickin fireworks after that. You my friend have nothing else to lose. Your wife already has a boyfriend; you don't need to put up with that shit for one more second.

We are here for you. Let us know what happens.


"That which can be destroyed by the truth should be" P.C. Hodgell

Posts: 468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Southern Maryland
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

What is the best way to inform the AP's wife? I found out her name and the address she and the AP live at. I don't want to go in person. Should I just send a letter via Registered Mail with copies of my WW & AP's incriminating emails as proof?


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Stillkicking
Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

I made the OM tell his wife while I was standing right there so there was no bullshit. But in your case I would prepare a hand written letter and seal it into an envelope with all your evidence and your cell number (so you can compare notes later, trust me this will help verify) and hand deliver it to her as mail can be intercepted. You could use email or social media such as Facebook. You don't have to talk to her or stick around while she opens it, just say I have some info about your husband you need to read and leave it at that.

[This message edited by Stillkicking at 4:06 PM, September 19th (Thursday)]


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Revenge  Posted: 4:40 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

She says she needs time to figure out what she wants.

Um, no...you need to figure out what you want now. Your AP or this marriage...you can't have both. I, nor this marriage is an option so pick and we will do our best to move forward.

But she says she loves me less now because of my anger and that I have been snooping on her.

Really? I apologize because this sounds incredibly snarky but how about you say
"well, I love you a bit less as well since you've lied and betrayed me continually and oh yeah, and that you had sex with another man."

Do not allow her to place this on you. Her choices, her behavior, she has to own the affair for any chance of saving your marriage.


threatening to tell the OP's wife

Did you tell her? If not, you should. She deserves to know just like you deserved to know. If she knew, wouldn't you want her to tell you? Also, the best way to bring this to an end is to have it out in the open. If the OM is worried about saving his own marriage he has less time to be focusing on your WW.

Good luck. You and your family deserve better.

(((hugs and prayers)))

[This message edited by 1Faith at 4:42 PM, September 19th (Thursday)]


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1283 | Registered: Apr 2013
kenny55
Member
Member # 23014
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, September 19th (Thursday)

What still kicking said. Hand deliver the letter today. You do not really believe she wants to go away alone?? What would she be doing all this time? Have her take the kids if she just wants a week away from you. I bet you she declines. They are in School of course and really do not need her at home.

Posts: 474 | Registered: Feb 2009
Stillkicking
Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, September 21st (Saturday)

Hey coda,
Just wondering how your doing, and if you have told the OP's BW yet?

Hope all is good brother


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
cl131716
Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, September 21st (Saturday)

The fact that she went out and slept with the guy two days after you confronted her with the EA speaks volumes. I hate to say cut your losses but it really sounds like you should.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, September 21st (Saturday)

I think I found the OP's BW's Facebook page. And I sent a message asking if her husband is the OP and to write me back if he is. So far no response. I might have to have someone hand deliver to their home. Will definitely post here when I am successful making contact with the BW. I've been keeping up with the 180. And now my WW is doing the 180 back to me too. So not sure what to make of that.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Stillkicking
Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 1:38 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)

Coda brother the 180 isn't for any one but your self, it teaches you to disconnect and realize that no matter what happens YOU sir, you will be ok, who gives a fuck if she is playing it on you, it actually plays into your favor, when you let go of the outcome you can start healing yourself, and at the end of the day bro the you is all matters.
We got a great bunch of guys over in the i can relate forum called betrayed men here is a link come hang for a while and get some really solid advice from the vets:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=508255

[This message edited by Stillkicking at 1:39 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)]


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
Stillkicking
Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 8:21 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)

Hey brother,
Just seeing how your making out?
Hope all is calm.


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)

I tried to message/friend request the AP's wife via facebook. But no reply. So today, I just sent three letter to the wife. One registered mail (Post office said only the addressee can sign for it). And two regular mail. There are two possible addresses. I left my email and phone # in case she wants to contact me for more info. Hopefully one of the three letter's finds its way to her.

I'm holding up. Feel okay one day then hopelessly sad the next. Keep waking up in the middle of the night. But I'm exercising, and trying to eat more healthy. I lost about 15 lbs in the last month though, although thats not necessarily a bad thing since I had a little bit of a spare tire that almost gone now.
I still prefer to work things out with my wife. But I think I'm no longer afraid to divorce her either. Still doing the 180. But I might be over doing it (is it okay to be being distant, cold?)


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)

(is it okay to be being distant, cold?)

IMO, yes it is. Especially if your WW is not doing all she can to help you heal.

If she is not reaching out, trying to make amends then yes, remain distant and cold.

This is her mess to clean up. This is her wrong to right.

If she truly wants to R then she would be everything you need in order to see that and to start to let you guard down.

If she is not, then well keep up the 180.

Sorry you are here. Hope better days are on the horizon. You deserve more.

Good luck.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1283 | Registered: Apr 2013
tooanalytical
Member
Member # 22306
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)

Coda,

I am sorry you've joined our club. I can only share what worked for me and that was an ultimatum on d-day. In fact during the initial confrontation I told her I can't believe it is over after close to 25 years. I love her but since I only believe in M with two people, we need to unwind things quickly. Within a week I wanted to meet together to list our assets, meet with a lawyer to divide them and figure out what to tell the kids, friends and family.

She came out of the fog quickly and cried out in anguish. I then told her my conditions for staying including NC and if I caught her lieing to me one more time I was gone.

I meant it. And she knew it..Either she was in or out and I wasn't going to sit idle in a 180 for months while she continued to disrespect me. I wasn't a doormat to walked on and my recommendation is that you shouldn't be either.

[This message edited by tooanalytical at 6:08 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]


Me BH 44
FWW 44
Married 21 years
D-Day Apr 29, 2008
Children: 19,17,14
EA/PA - 1 year
Status: R

Posts: 282 | Registered: Jan 2009
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)

Coda,

You’ve gotten some excellent advice to-date but I want to add my three dollars’ worth...

Infidelity won’t simply go away and it will never cure itself. Nor is it ever possible for one person in a marriage to fix it. Yes – for a period of time one person can do all he/she can to get the other on board but at the end of the day… It’s both or nothing.

I think one of the reasons we often react “wrong” to these scenarios is because we have never envisioned being in them. [I put wrong in parentheses because I really don’t know if there is a right or wrong. What I do know from reading thousands of similar cases is that there are actions that work and actions that don’t…]

Now imagine that you aren’t dealing with infidelity. Instead imagine you wake up one night because of a high piercing sound. So you think that it might be the smoke detectors. You might HOPE it’s the smoke detectors in the next house but you would be a world-class fool to roll over and try to sleep. At least check. So you open your eyes and smell smoke…

At this point would you ever contemplate closing your eyes and simply wishing this wasn’t a fire in your house?
Would you weight the pro’s and cons of phoning the fire-brigade? After all their heavy boots might ruin the floor and the water they use wreck the walls…

If you are semi-normal you would be jumping out of bed, waking the family, making sure the kids are safe and hustling ASAP out the door or window or whatever. Making sure your wife is safe. Making sure that someone is dialing 911. Evaluating whether everyone is out, evaluating if you can kill the flame, saving valuables…

Even if it was a small fire in the side-room… You wouldn’t get it under control and then go get a cup of tea knowing there MIGHT be an ember. You would stomp it out, douse it with water, tear up the floorboards… You would make sure your house was SAFE.

Get it? See what I’m trying to say? The house – it’s your family and marriage. The fire – it’s your wife’s infidelity. It requires constant work until you have saved what you can and possibly killed the infidelity/fire.

Sometimes houses can’t be saved. Sometimes someone is left in the fire. At that point you can’t really stop and wish it hadn’t happened. It did. It’s reality. So you move on and find a new house to build.
Most of the times the house is damaged but can be fixed. But once again – it’s no use dialing 911 and then directly a contractor to start fixing the damaged stuff. Your priorities should be save those that can get out, save valuables, try to save the house and then evaluate whether to fix or find something new.

Right now your wife is still in infidelity mentality. She’s still contacting the OM, she’s still working with him, she’s still not committed to the marriage… It’s a blazing fire.
OK – I have this theory that (especially) WW enter a period of not having sex (active infidelity) when the affair is known but not ending the affair per se (inactive infidelity). It’s a theory often used when dealing with alcoholics; an alcoholic can stop drinking without dealing with his alcoholism but the failure rate is probably around 99%. Stop drinking and deal with the alcoholism… and the success rates increase.
So I think your WW might not be in active infidelity. The OM is probably keeping to himself worried shitless that his wife will get the news. Don’t worry – once she does OM will drop WW like the plague and focus on his marriage. Well – that’s what happens in 19 out of 20 cases.

IMHO reality is the best cure for infidelity. Your WW needs a dose of reality.
[Older posters bear with me – I have probably written the following text 1000 times here…]
I think it’s a very powerful moment when a BH realizes that the worst outcome of what he is dealing with is NOT losing his wife. The worst outcome has to be that she continues in the affair. That she doesn’t commit to the marriage. That three years from now you will still be wondering where she is, why she is distant and why that receipt from Victoria’s Secrets was in the trash.

I think that powerful moment is best utilized in telling your wife something like:
“Wife. I love you and I think we and our children deserve that we try to work our way through the infidelity. I realize it will require immense work from both of us and I am willing to commit to that. However I also know that losing you is NOT the worst thing that can happen to me. In fact I lost you the moment you decided to have an affair. The ABSOLUTE WORST outcome of this situation would be to continue living in infidelity.
Either you are in the marriage or you are not. There is no in-between.
While you are seeing OM and having an affair I have already lost you. I am therefore assuming the marriage is over and will act with the intent of going through the process of terminating it. There’s no rush. We can do this like civilized people. It won’t happen overnight and as I have stated I am willing to commit to the marriage. But I can’t save it alone and until you clearly and vocally state that you are willing to work towards reconciliation then the only honest and healthy thing I can do is move on”

And then you basically just do that.
You talk to an attorney. You get your latest tax records. You go over your debts and assets. You start listing major possessions in the house.
You do NOT talk to WW about marriage issues. It’s like trying to negotiate with the flames.
You do not talk to WW about the divorce process. Simply say “This is not what I want but it’s my only option. I am afraid that I am too emotionally attached to the marriage so at the RIGHT time we will have an attorney or mediator go over these issues with us”.
You do not engage in arguments.
You simply live your life, doing the 180 and act as determined and content as you can. Sort of like someone that simply knows that the hard path he is walking is the only one out.


Coda – My suggestion is NOT based at getting you to divorce. In fact I think my advice is absolutely the best to SAVE your marriage. But I also think that it will be saved because your WW wakes up and sees that the affair is fantasy while you are reality.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 8:31 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

Thank you for all your responses. It has helped me understand things and feel better sometimes. "Bigger" I especially respected your post.

Yesterday we met for MC mainly to discuss the rules for the one week separation my WW is planning from 10/2-10/9. Rules we agreed upon, 1) Tell kids she will be away on Business Trip, 2) She can communicate with kids via telephone, 3) No contact between her and I, 4) At the end of the week, we have another MC session, and she has to have made somekind of decision. I wanted one more rule, NC with AP, but she would not agree. In fact she admittted wanting to see the AP in person to discuss things. To me it sounds like she wants to see how things are with him, then decide about our marriage. So I guess the marriage is just the backup choice. Anyway, I will take the week to think about what I want too. And if I really want to continue the marriage. I am starting to feel a bit fed up with her attitude about this.

[This message edited by coda87 at 8:35 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)

You know full well that your WW will spend the week with the OM discussing their future and committing further adultery, [otherwise known as having a glorious fuckfest].

Its the blatant disrespect that you will remember, especially if the marriage survives. She doesn't try to hide the fact that she will be with him during that week; her contempt for you is obvious; can you live with this contempt in the years to come?

It will consume your self-esteem and probably lead to further cheating. You should divorce her not because of her adultery, but because of the lack of respect. That is something you should not tolerate.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Coda;
In a way I respect her honesty. But how do you feel about your wife not willing to commit to NC with the OM for the week? How will you feel about her coming home in seven days and moving back in, not knowing if she’s pining for OM, is going to see him again, is committing to the marriage…?

Maybe you are fine with that and that is totally OK if it fits you. You might be OK with allowing her this week in the hope that it clarifies her thoughts. I wouldn’t be fine with this but that is only ME. So if you are fine with this situation… good for you.

If however the thought that she’s going to see OM bothers you… Then refuse it.

Look back at where I talk about alcoholism… Right now your wife is an alcoholic that has realized that she might have a drinking problem. So when her friends go to a bar she decides to follow them but not drink. And she will be totally believing herself when she decides this. Then maybe just buy one glass of Chablis… just to hold it so she isn’t so self-conscious being empty handed. Then just one teeny weeny sip… Then another… Then another glass… Then a shot… Then some more…

That “problem” is she realizes her marriage is in danger because of her affair/drinking. The bar is moving out for a week. The Chablis is meeting OM “just to talk” to clear things… You can bet your bottom dollar the “clearing” will include sex.

I encourage you to have the talk I mentioned. Tell her that she is totally free to go for the week. That you won’t impede her ability to talk to children. That you won’t contact her. But also that YOU will be using the week to evaluate how much you can and should take. That YOU are moving out of infidelity and that each and every chip she makes in the marriage really diminishes your will and ability to work things out. You aren’t willing to commit to being her backup plan and that you fear that you will simply feel disgusted at her if she comes back after a week of romping with another man. That maybe, just maybe it won’t be HER call after a week whether the marriage has a chance.


And Coda... Tell the OMW. NOW.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Yes, in the MC session, I told her that it's risky to see the AP, because it is like an addiction. I do not like the fact that she wont agree to NC with the AP and I tried to make it one of the rules. But the reality is I do not have control of what she does. And she can easily agreed to NC and see him anyway (lie about it).
One of the rules we came up with for the 1 week separation is that she needs to come back with a decision about what she wants to do. And the counselor told me I should also think about what I want to do. I did say that at the moment, I still want to try and work things out. But that I might change my mind at some point.

I made attempts to contact the OMW, via Facebook and a couple days ago sent letters. So far I have heard nothing back from her or from my WW (I'm assuming the AP would tell her if his wife got my letter). I'm even thinking hiring a PI to track her down and hand deliver a letter to her.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 11:54 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

You are giving her all the power by allowing her to take a week off without an NC agreement with the AP. You can't control her but you can tell her in no uncertain terms that her actions show you that the marriage is over as you cannot tolerate being in a marriage of more than 2 people. You are not a doormat waiting for her to step back in your door. You determine your fate not her.

If you don't stand up for yourself and your principles then even if she does come back to you she won't respect you. And you won't respect you.

There is YOUR moment of self respect. You may feel weak from shock and grief, but you must stand up for your self respect. No matter what happens, when you have self respect it sets you up for a good next chapter in your life.

[This message edited by InnerLight at 11:57 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]


BS, now age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years M and 20 together. In some ways I have not 'gotten over it'. But I am resilient and have created a good life where I am mostly happy.

Posts: 5897 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
Uhtred
Member
Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, September 27th (Friday)

Coda,

I hate to hear that you have also been a victim of someone's selfishness. I think you need to make a whole hearted effort to contact the OM's wife. I would go over there personally to make yourself known. Only do this if you can physically control yourself if the other man is present. I made a poor judgement call when I did this and it ended up costing me in the long run.

Demand that your wife not see the om during your one week separation. My situation is quite different since my wife has been completely remorseful since I found out. With your wife still wanting to see the other man you need to take action and bust that bubble. The OM will be looking for a hole to crawl in. Regardless of whether you stay with her or not it will bring you satisfaction knowing that you have killed her fairy tale. that is exactly what it is right now and she is in the fog. Take action my friend.


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
“Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a sword”

Posts: 627 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
betrayedme2
Member
Member # 40639
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, September 27th (Friday)

Coda, so sorry!! Been there where you're at. Bigger has it right.

You're the one that has to make the decision for yourself and your kids. Not committing to NC and not giving you access to her email, phone, or FB speaks volumes on where she is at. I tried to look at my situation as a stranger or friend would look at it and what kind of advice I would give a friend in my situation. I would have told my friend that if she didn't move out, I would.....and with the kids. I didn't take my own advice. Thankfully and we're still working on it.

The only thing new that I can offer that I haven't read yet is that if you're not comfortable with your MC, try another. Not every MC is for everyone or for every couple. Also strongly consider IC for yourself. You're on a roller coaster that has just begun. Sorry!


dday: 1/19/13
ME: mid 40's
WW: low 40'3
2 daughters, 17, 21
Reconciling

Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest
betrayedme2
Member
Member # 40639
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, September 27th (Friday)

.....regarding the other spouse. Still consider hand delivering it. She may shut the door in your face, but at least you'll know for sure that she knows. She may likely be going through what your are, but in an earlier stage.

I so wished I had another spouse to tell, the other person was divorced, from his own prior infidelities.


dday: 1/19/13
ME: mid 40's
WW: low 40'3
2 daughters, 17, 21
Reconciling

Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest
kannan
Member
Member # 36057
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, September 27th (Friday)

She is going to see OM during her vacation, definitely they are going to have sex. He is married so if he refuses to leave his wife, your wife is going to come back to you after their sex fest.My question is Are you OK with this?

Cheating before Dday and continuing it right in-front of the BS is two different animal. The disrespect, humiliation of the second will be too much for any one with self respect to tolerate.

Then one more question, she took her EA to PA after you confronted her, How much is her respect for you, your hurt and pain?

Why you want to be with such a person?


Posts: 139 | Registered: Jul 2012
LifeisCrazy
Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, September 27th (Friday)

I'm sorry to say this Coda... but do you feel that warmth running down your leg? It's your wife pissing on it.

Get angry. Stop allowing her to walk all over you. She wants a one week "separation" so.... she can fuck some other guy? "Uh, guess what, honey? You are married."

No chance. "Here you go, sweetie. You take your one week fuck-fest and you will find everything you own on the curb. And guess what else. I'm filing for immediate divorce and I'm going for full custody of our children."

"Now... still want to take a vacation?"

You need to put your foot down and begin making the rules - not following them.

Look your wife in the eye and lay them out. Start with the absolute, #1 essential rule:

No contact. Ever. Again. Period.


"You don't like it? We're done."

She will continue to piss on you because she knows you're currently a fall back position. Don't give her that.

Let her know, in no uncertain terms, that if she takes that leap she doesn't get to come back. And it will cost her A LOT.

An earlier poster is correct - a WS who sleeps with another guy pre-Dday is one thing... but one who sleeps with him AFTER Dday.... well, she's just a fucking piece of work.

Be strong. I'm hoping for you.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2013
flygirl96
Member
Member # 22954
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, September 27th (Friday)

Coda if she wants a separation I would make her take the kids or let her stay there at home and you leave for the week.

she is up to something fishy that week. Why make her life easy? Tell her you stay home with the kids and I'll leave and see how she responds. You could hire PI to watch the house and see who comes and goes.

I would never let her go for a week without the kids. If my husband said he wanted a week off I'd say take the kids with you then..... Of course, we don't have any so I would say take the dog. A week off should not be a week off of responsibility. If you two break up she will have the kids at least part of the time. Let her see how it will be with OM and her kids.


Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2009
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, September 27th (Friday)

Update, we had a huge fight last night. I basically told her if she see's the OM during the separation, that our marriage is over. Then she snapped and got really angry. I've only seen her like this a couple times in our 12 years of marriage. She actually hit me a couple times and she had a ballpoint pen in her hand, so I had to back away to avoid being possible stabbed. Then she took a real low blow and said something to the effect that she was not satisfied sexually with me, which is why she cheated. I think it was said to try in hurt me (it did), but I tried no to react and just went upstairs to take a shower. After that I went to the garage got several boxes with financial records. She asked what I was doing and I said gathering docs for my lawyer. She seemed concerned about that and said she thought we would use the same lawyer and try to negotiate and uncontested divorce. I said I would use my own laywer because I dont trust her.

So now I'm pretty sure she hates me. And I don't see how we can save the marriage now. I also don't understand why she got so angry, when I'm the one who got cheated on. Maybe she is fed up with the 180 ive been doing the last couple week. This is getting worse as time goes on. I told her for me it's that the affair has continued for almost 5 weeks after Dday, and that everyday my desire to reconcile fades a little.

I see little hope, but I still want to work things out if she can come to her senses and realize what she has done.

I found out the AP & his wife moved to another condiminium in July. But I don't know what unit #. Also I don't think its a good idea for me to go their in person. If the AP, I might just lose my temper (which is already short). If violence were to occur, it would only hurt me if end up getting divorced as she would use this against me for custody of the children. So I can't take the risk. I have to find another way to contact the APs wife.

[This message edited by coda87 at 6:51 PM, September 27th (Friday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
TheClimb
Member
Member # 25895
Default  Posted: 7:18 PM, September 27th (Friday)

Coda:

She is angry because she is not getting her way. She is just like a two year old that doesn't want to take her nap. You did good! I know it hurts, but this is the only way your marriage even has a chance, by you saying "no way am I putting up with this".

I promise you, telling the OM's wife will help. It will show your wife that you refuse to be treated like this. She will be furious, but sometimes this is the rock bottom they need to see things clearly. Go ahead with your attorney plans. You can always stop the proceedings later if things work out.

Finally, I can access public tax records here in my county which list their physical address and their mailing address. Try searching on the internet "_____ County Property Tax Records". I understand if you don't want to do it yourself. Get all the evidence copied and give it to a friend or coworker to deliver for you.


"That which can be destroyed by the truth should be" P.C. Hodgell

Posts: 468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Southern Maryland
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, September 27th (Friday)

I've never been a fan of the 180 since it is mainly mis-applied. You need to detach, win back some of the respect you lost and portray yourself as a strong person who will not be abused.

Ok, you need to do it without driving your WW to point of such anger that she attacks you with a ball-point pen. What have you gained? She is now full of self-righteous anger; you are the bastard she always thought you were; you deserve to be cheated on etc. etc.

Avoid arguments; maintain a friendly attitude, discuss things rationally while being firm about the boundaries you have drawn. This gives your WW no opportunity to draw on anger to justify her adultery. Getting your wife angry is the most counterproductive thing you could do; just drives her into the arms of the OM and denies you the opportunity of rescuing your marriage.

The 180 is an instrument of detachment and withdrawal; not a mechanism of cold hostility and aggressive confrontation.

Separate; file for divorce, whatever. but do it with a smile on your face even it hurts. Every time you lose your temper, be hostile, or coldly ignore her, it gives her justification to bury the guilt even deeper. It would be most preferable for her to face guilt before the divorce, when there is chance to save the marriage. You need to keep your wife in a reasonably calm, rational frame of mind so she can make better decisions. Provoking rage is not the way to accomplish this.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, September 27th (Friday)

I doubt her anger was from mistake in the practice of the 180 on Coda's part. She's angry because she has no respect her herself or Coda or the other couple's marriage, because she's scared underneath as she is realizing the support structure of her marriage is falling apart, because she is a ball of needs not getting met and can only lash out or act our like a child.


BS, now age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years M and 20 together. In some ways I have not 'gotten over it'. But I am resilient and have created a good life where I am mostly happy.

Posts: 5897 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:43 AM, September 28th (Saturday)

Coda,

I will make this very short, but think about this carefully:

--You state that you would like to work things out with your wife if she was to come around.

--You have witnessed behavior in her, that you have never seen before, prior to her affair.

--She has been in a position of alluded power, and has seen you as weak and indecisive(sorry, I know that hurts, but it is true).

--If you look at her affair like an addiction, and she does eventually come out of it ON HER OWN, and the two of you try to reconcile, she is going to ask you:

"I was an addict and not in my correct train of thought. I was self-destructing in front of your very eyes...yet you continued to let me. I know that I am responsible for my own actions, but how could you let me do this to you and myself and not try to stop me?"

How would you answer her?

Please stand up for what is right. If she chooses not to abide, then you can leave with the knowledge of knowing that you were not going to compromise your integrity any longer.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2114 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, September 28th (Saturday)

Remember my burning house comparison?
Well, when you start spraying a blazing flame with water the initial results might make you doubt you are doing anything good. The steam, smoke, hissing sound, falling embers… If you had never before seen a fire and extinguished one then you would probably doubt you were doing right.
Like I said; one of the biggest problems is that you are dealing with a crisis you aren’t prepared for. Had this been a fire you would KNOW that the water is doing its job and carry on spraying despite the initial reactions.
Same here… Your wife is hissing and spouting gas and your only correct reaction is to stand firm.

Her comments about sexual satisfaction… It hurts but its simply her way to hurt you. Don’t put any weight into those words. If she turns around then this is an issue you two can deal with in MC but for now… It’s just the fire burning your carpet.

IMHO your main emphasis right now should be finding OMW. You should place immense effort on that task and set a goal of getting this done in the next 48 hours.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, September 28th (Saturday)

Ok, I just found out that the AP's wife received my letter informing her that her husband is having an affair with my wife. My WW told me that the AP texted her about this today. She didn't seem too angry about it, just worried about what the AP's wife reaction would be and if she would be able to figure out my wife's identity (I didn't put her name in the letter). I told her the reason why I did it was not for revenge, but that I just wanted the affair to end and that this was one way I thought it could be accomplished.

We'll see what happens now. This might screw up my WW's plans to see the AP during the one week separation.

I will post updates as things happen. But I have to say I feel somewhat better/relieved that the AP's wife knows now.

[This message edited by coda87 at 6:16 PM, September 28th (Saturday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
toby
Member
Member # 10337
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, September 28th (Saturday)

.....and since the confirmation of your exposure came from your WW....then it's true?

At this point, I wouldn't believe a word coming out of your WW mouth. Most likely, the OM probably intercepted the letter and informed your WW. Happens all the time here.

You need confirmation from the other BS.


Posts: 1558 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
Emptyshelldad
Member
Member # 32292
Default  Posted: 2:24 AM, September 29th (Sunday)

oh my god, I'm sitting here in shock that no one has said this already.
CALL THE POLICE ABOUT HER HITTING YOU!!
if it were a man hitting a woman everyone on here would be all over her to call the police and not put up with that etc etc etc. if you are headed towards divorce she will paint you horribly and you are just gonna sit there and be like "what....I can't believe she would do this?"

a piece of advice, when someone tells you who they are through their actions, you should listen to them.

so her actions are screaming to you and drawing a picture, and using hand signals, Morse code, sign language, and every other conceivable communication known to man......and yet you seem to not get it.

right now you are experiencing the results of not HITTING this thing right in throat, you keep lightly pushing and hoping that alone will kick ass. it won't, it's not.

so go talk to.the other man's wife......do you hear that.....go TALK to the other man's wife.....not write a letter, not call her......GO, find her, and TALK to her. follow the other man from his work to his home, then go talk to his wife the next day.

Right now, you should call the police and report this domestic violence. and this will put things on your side.....currently you sit and your wife attacks you and belittles you, disrespect you and your marriage and you are still trying to love her out of this crap. You are in a fight, and if you don't start acting like it, your gonna keep.getting you ass kicked.

I'm sorry this seems harsh, but you are a man....and someone needs to tell you to man up and get protecting yourself and your kids.

[This message edited by Emptyshelldad at 2:28 AM, September 29th (Sunday)]


Me: BH - 28, Her: WW - 31, 10 years, 5 months, 6 days.
2 beautiful daughters. 1 devious, deceitful, serpant-like liar of a wife.
"oh god this has brought a path of destruction and scorching pain leaving in its wake a charred wasteland of a onc

Posts: 149 | Registered: May 2011 | From: emptyshelldad
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:37 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)

Some of you were right on the money. I just found a receipt for Victoria's Secret for $200+ worth of thongs, sexy pushup bras, lingerie. Receipt dated today. She starts her one week vacation on Wednesday. I guess she was planning it to be a "fuckfest" as another member put it. I give up already. Tomorrow I will schedule another appt with my attorney and tell him to start filing divorce proceedings.

Thank you guys/gals for all your advice. Some of it I didn't want to believe, but you guys were right. I should have listened.

This is hell


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Emptyshelldad
Member
Member # 32292
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)

GO EXPOSE IT TO THE OTHER MANS WIFE RIGHT NOW!! TODAY!

You may still be able to at least put a stop to the fuckfest. This douche will throw your wife's ass under the bus so fuckin fast that she will be in shock. Right now she thinks she is in love or lust or whatever, but when he shows her where his real loyalties lie, her fantasy land won't be able to support the continuation of the fantasy against the backdrop of such an obvious reality.

Remember, your wife is just a piece of side ass for this ass clown, he is not going to risk his marriage further for her by doing a week of fuckfest right after his wife finds out. But I promise you that his being there in person to refute your letter, caused her to believe him....kind of....she is still suspicious, but the fact is anyone in person will be more believable than words on a page.
Your actions now may have a huge impact on the rest of your life. Gather all the evidence you have including the vitorias secret receipt and go to other mans wife.
Good luck bro, sorry again for being so harsh but right now you need a war time consigliere (godfather).


Me: BH - 28, Her: WW - 31, 10 years, 5 months, 6 days.
2 beautiful daughters. 1 devious, deceitful, serpant-like liar of a wife.
"oh god this has brought a path of destruction and scorching pain leaving in its wake a charred wasteland of a onc

Posts: 149 | Registered: May 2011 | From: emptyshelldad
Emptyshelldad
Member
Member # 32292
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)

GO EXPOSE IT TO THE OTHER MANS WIFE RIGHT NOW!! TODAY!

You may still be able to at least put a stop to the fuckfest. This douche will throw your wife's ass under the bus so fuckin fast that she will be in shock. Right now she thinks she is in love or lust or whatever, but when he shows her where his real loyalties lie, her fantasy land won't be able to support the continuation of the fantasy against the backdrop of such an obvious reality.

Remember, your wife is just a piece of side ass for this ass clown, he is not going to risk his marriage further for her by doing a week of fuckfest right after his wife finds out. But I promise you that his being there in person to refute your letter, caused her to believe him....kind of....she is still suspicious, but the fact is anyone in person will be more believable than words on a page.
Your actions now may have a huge impact on the rest of your life. Gather all the evidence you have including the vitorias secret receipt and go to other mans wife.
Good luck bro, sorry again for being so harsh but right now you need a war time consigliere (godfather).


Me: BH - 28, Her: WW - 31, 10 years, 5 months, 6 days.
2 beautiful daughters. 1 devious, deceitful, serpant-like liar of a wife.
"oh god this has brought a path of destruction and scorching pain leaving in its wake a charred wasteland of a onc

Posts: 149 | Registered: May 2011 | From: emptyshelldad
Ambergray
Member
Member # 40778
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, October 1st (Tuesday)

Want to put a damper on the fuckfest or ruin it completely?? Tell the OM's wife!! She deserves to know just like you do. Right now you are planning what is best for you. There is no one looking out for her. Wouldn't you want someone to do this for you? I am so sorry that you are going through this. Every decision is a tough one. Keep strong and lean on the people here who have been through it. They are invaluable.


Me-38
WH-38
Dday June 2013

"What lies behind you and what lies in front of you, pales in comparison to what lies inside of you.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson


Posts: 97 | Registered: Sep 2013
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

COda

You should have your wife arrested for spousal abuse.

Between the stabbing pen action and V.S. underwear I hope you realize what a liar you are dealing with.

File for divorce.
Move her out.

And tell her therapist what an idiot they are.

And stop being a nice guy, they always finish last.

Good Luck

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

I'm so sorry for you brother. this is so devastating to all involved. especially for the children. I would like to emphasize however, it's much better to be from a broken home rather than to have to live in one.

file for divorce. out her affair to everyone. it will be a quick way to find out who supports you. please please tell the other betrayed spouse.

document everything you can.

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3163 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

Your actions now may have a huge impact on the rest of your life

Very true words from emptyshelldad.

If you wish to have any chance of saving your marriage, tell your wife that if she goes on the week long vacation you will divorce her - and follow through; don't backtrack. Tell her about your discovery of the lingerie.

Secondly, you MUST contact the OM's wife within the next few days; that means talking to her face to face, not hearsay from your liar of a wife. Tell the BW of their plans to meet next week for sex. There is a chance she may be able to stop it.

Your wife has little respect for you and obviously does not think you will go through with a divorce. After the fuckfest she will claim it now all over and she is willing to reconcile. [Affair may go underground]. Everyone will pressure you to rebuild your marriage and drop the divorce.

Your wife will think it highly amusing; she got her excitement and week of pleasure and you finally accepted this and didn't divorce her after all. She must be very sure of herself; of course she will use the kids as a reason why you both must stay together.

Meanwhile you have been both outwitted and humiliated. Won't be much of a marriage afterwards and more affairs will follow.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

It‘s nothing worse than you knew already. You knew she was going to see OM during the break because she had already told you so.

I want to suggest you enter the next phase with a plan. If you don’t then there is the tremendous risk that you two just simply meander along with no resolution to what’s going on. The plan I’m going to suggest is based on three main tasks:
Make the affair a hard place to be in
Make the marriage attractive
Make leaving the marriage hard

The first task - making the affair a hard place to be in – is mainly dealt with by acknowledging and not hiding the affair. Don’t talk around it and be direct; if your wife is leaving the house for the evening then simply tell her “you are leaving to see affair partner” (never call him “your lover” or anything that even adds the slightest romantic base to his role).

Expose the affair. Good job on the OMW but I recommend you confirm she has the news. Make sure she knows WW is out for the next week so OM will probably be seeing her. But expose to others. Look around at your friends. If there is anyone that you think might have positive effects on your wife then approach them and ask for help. “My wife is having an affair with OM. This affair threatens to destroy my family. I wish we could reconcile but as you can imagine it’s impossible while WW is seeing OM. I would greatly appreciate any advice, suggestion or support you could offer me and/or WW so we can save our family”.

Refuse to finance the affair. Make your wife pay her share of the joint bills and refuse to allow money be spent on hotels, gifts, dinners and so on that are in any way connected to the affair. Make sure the family gets its share of any money before either of you gets to spend it on personal issues. Be vocal on this too: “Don’t you think our kids deserve to eat rather than your affair partner gets to see you in new lingerie?”

Refuse to support the affair. Your wife want to go out in the evening? Well – who’s taking care of the kids? Maybe this was the evening you had planned to work late or go out.

Go see your attorney and start whatever process is necessary for divorce. Keep this in mind: YOU can and need to do a lot of work. Things like getting financial statements, list of assets, seeing what needs to be done to value the house… These are all tasks you can start off doing while or before she is served. Even when the process has started then it’s a long path until it’s over. There is no rule that says once started you can’t stop.

Make the marriage attractive.
Sad thing is you can’t tell your wife what she’s risking. But you can show it. You make the marriage attractive by not participating in arguments. By not moping around. Instead you start exercising. You start and finish all those small projects at home. You dress that little bit neater. Shave Saturday mornings (I shower and shave every morning and wear a suit to work. On weekends I tended to not shave and wear my favorite jeans and t. Why should I dress up for work but not for home? Changed that – now I dress up for my wife). Get a haircut. Some new clothes. Do all this progressively – not all at the same time.

You definitely do the 180 – you don’t exercise or dress for HER. But consequences are that you will feel better and more confident and she will see that. She will start questioning whether she’s doing the right thing.

Remember my long speech in my first post on your situation? (“Wife. I love you and...”) Well – do it. Make that speech. That’s part of making the marriage attractive. It makes YOU the one in power.

Try to imagine your wife as two people: There is the W. This is the woman you married. She’s still there, if she wasn’t she would be gone already. But there is also the WW. That’s the one having the affair. And you want to excommunicate that person. The W and the WW are not always in agreement. Making the marriage attractive is aimed at the W and is hated by the WW. The WW wants a reason to leave you so the WW starts arguments (that you don’t respond to). These arguments are aimed at justifying her view on the marriage. Feed the W with reality about how the marriage really is and she can come back.

Make leaving the marriage hard.
Look – I hate it when people here on SI suggest filing for sole custody, kicking out of the house, emptying pension funds… Fact is all income in a marriage, all assets and all debts are joined (more or less). Even the most amicable divorces tend to be messy and my advice is in NO WAY aimed at making things messier.
Just don’t lean over backwards to accommodate her. That’s all.
We men tend to leave the house to the wife, take all the debt, the unwanted cat, the plastic cutlery and move into a bachelors pad with one bedroom and a kitchenette. Then the ex wife expects us to come over on Sunday to mow the lawn and fix the car. Heck – we might even talk about yesterday’s game with OM who’s lounging about in our old dressing gown. All friendly and lovely.

Reality is different. IF this ends in divorce (and it’s still a long way off!) you will both suffer financially. Chances are the house is gone. Not unless either can afford it and can also afford to pay off the other. And five years from now you two will hopefully be good co-parents but other than the parenting roles have no common ground. You won’t visit, won’t share Thanksgiving and won’t holiday together.

So be fair in divorce but be realistic. Make the split as equal as you can afford and accept and realize that D will impact all your family in so many different ways.

NEVER talk D with your wife. IF she initiates d-talk then simply say “I am too emotionally attached to this marriage to trust myself to act rationally and protect my interests. All D-talk should be through my attorney Mr. Ieat Sharks Forlunch.”

Finally coda…
NOW. No wait. No delay…
Walk over to your wife and very clearly tell her that you will NEVER again accept her physically beating you. If she ever raises a clenched fist in your direction you will not hesitate in calling the police and filing a domestic abuse charge.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

I like the suggestion from Bigger.
If she still insists of going on the week-long fuckfest then tell friends and family. Don't forget to mention the lingerie.

Even the threat of doing this may pull your wife back from the cliff-edge. What a stupid person; she is about to emasculate you and can't understand what the long-term effects will be.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Secrets Kept
Member
Member # 40630
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

I hope you get this post in time since your WW leaves for her trip tomorrow.

I would also inform her that ALL of her belongings will be sitting on the curb when she comes back & she will NOT come back to the marital home until you decide to let her. (and if she goes anyway, pack her shit, if you want...you can also just throw it out there & make her pack it all up herself.
Then take a pic & text it to her & tell her "I hope it doesn't rain while you are gone".

(and everything Bigger said)

Be strong!!! Think of your children & how you want to them to perceive & handle the whole situation.
If this was your son, what would you think he should do......let his wife go on her vacay & fuck another man while your son lay bleeding at home? I doubt it so if that is what it takes for you to get tough....keep in that mind-frame that it is happening to one of your sons. Your kids will remember this & they understand WAY more than we give them credit for so you need to show them you won't be a wussy boy while your wife leaves for a week to fuck another person's husband.
(and please.....not saying you are a wussy boy...just a figure of speech to give the reflection)

My thoughts & prayers are with you tonight!

You deserve better than this so don't settle for less!!!


Marriage #1=BW-46 (now)
XWH-Deceased on his 36 bday
Divorced in 1996
Marriage #2= Married in 2003
H-44
2 kids together-DS14 & DD12
"All this time I was finding myself & I didn't know I was lost"

Posts: 223 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest USA
2long
New Member
Member # 10570
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)

Here's another suggestion, though I recognize I may have found this thread 2 late:

Tell her that, if she goes on her trip, don't come back. MEAN IT. And pack her shit up while she's gone. Have the boxes neatly stacked in the garage. If she doesn't have a place 2 go, have a hotel phone number at hand. Or send her 2 her parents, if they live nearby.

Fire the therapist. Or make them go with her for the week. Seriously, some of these fuckers are so s2pid it boggles the mind. Ask them if they've ever been cheated on before and if letting their WS go on a week 2 flail away with their affair partner saved their "marriage?"

You should have called the police. You could slap her with a restraining order 2 celebrate on her week away. In fu2re, document everything and call the police if she ever gets violent again.

Seriously consider what you want 2 save here. Your marriage prior 2 d-day was never real. She is not the person you thought she was. She can't unscrew what she's screwed up.

She isn't remorseful. Even if she were, there's still a big gulf between being remorseful and ac2ally doing whatever the BS needs 2 convince them that they're sincere about recovery. She's also actively having an affair. While she is, she shouldn't also be living in your house.

Be firm. Push her off her fucking fence.

-ol' 2long


Posts: 20 | Registered: May 2006 | From: So. Cal
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

I presume you will be minding the children while she is with the OM. Have you thought about refusing to do this?

Leave yourself the day before, [go stay with a friend] and in essence prevent your wife from taking this 'vacation' because she will have to cancel in order to look after the kids. Return a few days later and see how things are. Anytime your WW talks about leaving for another rendezvous with OP, just refuse to babysit while she screws around on you.

Either that or just get tired of all this disrespect and file.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 12:19 AM, October 6th (Sunday)

Well its the 3rd day into my wife's one week vacation/separation. I felt relieved the first couple days. But now the depression is really hitting me. Everyone, thanks for your advice. Some I followed, and some I'm sorry I just can't do. The night before the day her vacation started, she came to me to talk. She was concerned that I already contacted a attorney to start the divorce process. But I am not sure if she is just afraid to go through a contested divorce vs an uncontested one where we would use the same lawyer and try to agree on most things. The State I live in has no-fault divorce, so legally, the fact that she had and affair doesn't matter (and she knows this). If we divorce, it will be financially tough on both of us, her more so since I make twice the income as she does. We would have to sell our house. And each maintain separate households after the divorce, so definitely a downgrade in lifestyle. Maybe she has some fear about this.

The past few days, I've been thinking about two choices. I think the easier choice would be to just file for divorce. I feel like we already divorced and that I lost her when she decided to start the affair. So doing that would just be a continuation of what I've already been going through the past 6 weeks, and I feel like I'm past the worst phase already. The only downside is that I may regret not giving our marriage a chance later. Also, I still feel like our children deserve the effort to try to reconcile.

The other choice would be to try to reconcile. The risk I see here is that I feel like the odds are against reconciliation, at least with the current info I have now. So why try something that will take 2-3 years, when it may not work anyway? And why go through the emotional roller coaster ride that it is sure to be.

Of course this assumes she comes back, ends the affair, and wants to reconcile too.
But what ever she decides, I still have the choice to divorce now. This is such a hard decision to make.

[This message edited by coda87 at 12:26 AM, October 6th (Sunday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, October 6th (Sunday)

Coda,

Don't forget to take into consideration that many couples have reconciled after divorce.

But you are no where near that point yet, and for (2) reasons: first--the divorce process takes time, and second--she is not of reconcilable material, and hasn't been, since she left the marriage. You know where she is and what she is doing...and it sucks. It is disrespect to the Nth degree.

You have to move yourself out of this infidelity. The only thing worse than being cheated on is to continue to live that lifestyle. And as depressed as you seem right now, it will subside over time. You just have to focus on yourself, and your children.

Don't sit idle. As long as your WW is not committed to you and the marriage, work on moving away from it. These are some of the shittiest days, friend---believe me. Trying to wrap your mind around losing much of what you worked for is a killer. But it is NOT as bad as staying in this toxic situation. As you distance yourself emotionally from your WW, you will see things differently....and maybe your WW will also. But nothing will change under the current status quo.

It does get better. You probably can't see it, but it does...and will.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2114 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
2long
New Member
Member # 10570
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, October 6th (Sunday)

It might sound counterintuitive, but your best chance at recovering your marriage is 2 take a non-flexible hardline stand on her infidelity. DO NOT TOLERATE IT FOR ONE SECOND LONGER.

Your "amicable divorce" would require you both 2 work 2gether with a mediator. You can't be emotional or angry if you're going 2 use a mediator. She's having an active affair, so it would be in her own selfish interest 2 put off any decisions for as long as possible - in her mind, you accepted her affair by letting her go on a week long fuckfest with the OM. If you let her come home after that, you're affirming your acceptance of her new "lifestyle."

The sooner you can stand up for yourself, your kids, and your marriage, the sooner this painful experience can end - one way or the other.

Regardless of whether you recover your marriage or yourself after a divorce, this WILL take 2-5 years. It's just the way it is.

-ol' 2long


Posts: 20 | Registered: May 2006 | From: So. Cal
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, October 6th (Sunday)

The key issue here is the disrespect. Your WW took a week vacation and brought along Victoria Secrets underwear; so you know she intends to have sex with the OM. You also know that she is aware that you know about her planned sexual excursion and she simply does not care. She doe not give a hang that you will lie in bed at night wondering....

This is a monumental lack of respect and as I said in a previous post she will come back with an offer to reconcile just to keep the family intact. Welcome to hell my friend, because thats what your marriage will become and she will take the affair underground.

What I am trying to get through to you is that you cannot accept this lack of respect and preserve your dignity and self-esteem. If you 'reconcile' on your wife's terms after she returns flush with excitement after her nights with the OM, you are lost, and I expect in a few years time you will post a warning on SI about "I wish I had stood my ground and divorced etc etc"

I utterly believe in reconciliation after adultery, when there is remorse and respect shown by the WS for the BS. This is not case in your relationship.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Gipper
Member
Member # 32232
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, October 6th (Sunday)

^^^^^This. X1000

Posts: 720 | Registered: May 2011
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, October 6th (Sunday)

How old are your children?

Although I am pro-marriage, it is important to realize that children are far more perceptive than we realize. Although they may not know what "cheating" is, they will pick up on one spouse treating the other like crap. They will pick up on you being sad and depressed. So you are not protecting them by allowing her to continue treating you like this. Your children deserve a happy father.

Even if you want to reconcile with her, you will never get your old marriage back. It has been destroyed by her actions. You can build a new one together, but only if she is completely committed. How can she be committed to the marriage if she hasn't even faced any consequences for betraying you?

Right now, your wife is 'cake-eating'. She thinks that she can run off with her f*ckbuddy for a week and return to the security of the marriage. She is the one in control here. To top it off, she has you thinking that if you do get divorced you'll settle it amicably. What is wrong with this picture?!?! She has abandoned your family for her f*ckbuddy!!

You need to wake up!!!!

Ask yourself why you would want to remain in a relationship with someone who is openly humiliating you? Start being proactive. Do you know who the other man is? Find out all you can about him - does he have a criminal record etc. Expose the affair to his wife/girlfriend. This isn't about revenge, but giving the betrayed wife information she deserves to know.

Hit the gym in your free-time and work on yourself. You deserve to be happy. Take control of your life!

Furthermore, even in a no-fault state, her behavior (leaving for a week) may still come into play. If you have evidence of her prioritizing her new man over her family, there is less chance that she will get the deal that she wants. Your lawyer should also be trying to get the best deal for you (not your wife).

If I was in your shoes, i would expose her to her family. If she calls you demanding an explanation, simply state that you are fighting for your marriage - and then hang up. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH HER. Also make arrangements so that she can sleep with her family when she gets back.

This makes it clear that you will no longer tolerate her bullsh*t, and that you are seriously contemplating a life without her.


Posts: 207 | Registered: Oct 2013
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 11:28 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)

So my wife finished her 1 week vacation today. We just met for a MC session. Basically she says she doesn't think it will work out between us and that it will be too difficult to try. I said I have the same concerns but still want to try. But she still doesn't want to. So I guess my only option is to file for divorce. This past week, I've gathered all our financial documents just in case. So I am ready. This really sucks. But in a way I feel relieved that I won't be hanging in limbo anymore and I can start to move on. I feel like I'm over the worst part (when I first found out about the affair). Either that or it's not hitting me yet emotionally. In anycase, I feel like I'm ready. Thank you all for your good advice. I might have to switch to the divorce/separation forum instead of Just Found Out.

[This message edited by coda87 at 11:30 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

The week long assignation with the OM finally convinced her that she needs to move on. I wish you could have found away to prevent this. Then when you stated that you would be prepared to reconcile, just after her sexual excursion with the OM, finally destroyed her respect for you. For heaven sakes, his body fluids were still inside of her.

I really don't think you understand how such passive forgiveness can be perceived as a unattractive weakness by your WW. If you had gone away for a week-long tryst with an OW do you think she would have been forgiving?

She now knows that she can fuck around until the divorce seeing if it will work out with OM, and if she wishes just snap her fingers and you'll come a running. You have to preserve your dignity and self-esteem at all costs and you can't do that by always being ready to reconcile, no matter what deep, egregious insults your wife pays you.

I can tell you if my husband went away for a week long session with a lover, he wouldn't have a marriage when he returned. Its a refection of the value I put on myself.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, October 10th (Thursday)

So I am ready. This really sucks. But in a way I feel relieved that I won't be hanging in limbo anymore and I can start to move on.

THIS is the key sentence. Congratulations. You have come a long long way!

Remember Aron Ralston; the guy that got stuck in a canyon and eventually had to cut off his arm? Earlier this year I got to hear him personally talk about this experience. He realized quite early on that he might have to cut off his arm but he wasn’t happy with that thought. So he did all he could to avoid it. He tried to move the rock pinioning him, rationed his food, his water, and drank his own urine… Name it. Everything to avoid that last, desperate act.
But… After 5 days or so he realized that no matter how he hated the idea then amputating his arm was the only option he had to survive. Once he accepted that idea he felt an inner peace like the one you describe. This peace didn’t make it hurt less or the task much easier – but he realized that with each cut he was getting closer to escaping his current situation.

I suggest you go back to my post about the three steps to save the marriage: Make the affair hard, make the marriage attractive and make leaving the marriage hard. Your WW has told you that she doesn’t see a chance. OK – listen to her. You can’t be alone in a marriage. She has pinioned your arm – you accept the reality you are most likely going to lose it. Definitely – like Aron – do all you can to avoid it but accept that at the moment divorce is your only option.

Contact your attorney and ask if filing first has any benefit in your state. If not then it’s up to you what the next step should be. Very often a spouse will “ask” for a divorce. Well – a divorce isn’t something you give. It’s something that you do. If she wants a divorce then let her DO it. Use the time to prepare yourself. Make the leaving of the marriage as hard as possible. Address issues like when and what to tell the children, residence, selling the house, where you will spend Christmas and all that.

This site is called Surviving Infidelity. It makes no mention of saving marriage or divorce. It’s simply survival. IMHO the path to survival starts once we start moving away from infidelity. It might not be the path you envisioned but it will definitely eventually get you to the goal of survival.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

We talked again last night. No fighting/argument. Just calm conversation. I asked her directly, does she really want to divorce? She asked if I was going to call my attorney. I didn't answer. I asked her several times, does she want a divorce? She wont give a direct answer. All she says is that she is not sure if we can work out things. I tell her, for me, the marriage feels like it's already over (since DDay). Divorce would just be making it legal. And that for me, filing for divorce is the easier path to take since I've feel like I've detached enough emotionally. I said trying to work it out is the more difficult path as it will be an emotional roller coaster ride and the chance to be disappointed again. But regardless, I said that I have nothing to lose at this point and I want to know that I tried my best before giving up.

Regarding the AP, she said she decided to not see or communicate with him. His wife knows about the affair and he also has two children, so maybe that has something to do with it. I said if she can commit to NC with him, I can try not to get so angry, jealous, doubtful of everything she does. She said these are the things that are driving her away from me. She said she knows I have good cause to feel those things. I think I have partially failed at the doing the 180. I'm part Irish, so my temper has always been a weakness and gets me in trouble more often than not.

So my plan now is to continue to do the 180 the correct way.
And see how things go the next couple weeks. But I will also use the time to think of the logistics/do more research if we do end up divorcing. There is so much that would need to be done and planned for.

I really do feel relieved that I see a way out of this. My preference to to R, but if not, I'm fine with D too.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
2long
New Member
Member # 10570
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

Actions speak. Words don't.

What do you want? She's already demonstrated she doesn't care what you want, so why tell her?

Why is she in the house?

Look, I understand not wanting 2 rock the boat, even when it's on fire and sinking. But the simple truth is that she doesn't have 2 do anything, since you've told her and shown her you want 2 recover no matter what. In my sitch, things ONLY started 2 2rn around when I told my wife that I wouldn't go through what she put me through again for anybody or any reason. I meant it. And she knew it.

-ol' 2long


Posts: 20 | Registered: May 2006 | From: So. Cal
movingforward13
Member
Member # 38405
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

You have no idea how far you would get with her if you kicked her out the house now and serve her divorce papers. I know this is hard, but it is delaying the inevitable. She hasn't hit rock bottom yet so she is still cake eating....
Please, listen to everyone here. Push her so far away that when she realizes she has no one, she comes crying back. It is the only way for her to respect you again and save the marriage.

You have to lose it to save it.


Once a cheater, always a cheater happens when your cheater doesn't have remorse.
Regret is not remorse- know the difference!

Posts: 643 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: DC
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, October 10th (Thursday)

I may have been harsh in my earlier post, and for that I apologize. My intention was not to insult or humiliate you. It was a wake up call.

The fact that she refuses to say yes/no to a divorce should be enough.

Of course she doesn't want a divorce. For her the current situation is perfect. She has a husband that pays the bills/looks after the children, and she can go have sex with whoever she wants.

If you were my friend, I would be screaming at you to find your backbone.


Posts: 207 | Registered: Oct 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:09 AM, October 11th (Friday)

Sounds as if the OM has throw her under the bus and chosen his family over her; after a passionate sexual goodbye of course.. Not much of a surprise there. Now she is going to cut a deal with you. If you rugsweep this affair and all the intense insults she has paid you, she will reconcile since she has nowhere else to go. Doesn't want to be a single parent and likes the convenience of a marriage. You have virtually agreed to this deal which will only put off the end of your relationship for a while, since she is certain that what she has done is unforgivable, as it should be considering what she has done.

So you will reconcile and the affair will rarely be discussed or she will turn away from you.

I can try not to get so angry, jealous, doubtful of everything she does. She said these are the things that are driving her away from me.

Thats just blackmail; rugsweep or I'll leave or start another affair.

Well you have to live under these rules with a plainly non-remorseful WW. Best of luck because you will need it.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

Well I had enough. Talked to my WW today and found out she still wants contact with the AP. She said she is thinking about going to a volleyball game with him and a couple others. So to her its not a date. I call it BS! She doesn't want to even try to reconcile either. So I said if that is the case, lets make and appointment to see an attorney next week about filing for divorce. I also said I plan to move out as soon as possible because I wont put up with her still seeing the AP and us living in the same house. I also said I am not watching the kids when she goes out at night. And I said once I move out, I basically want no contact with her except regarding the children (we will share custody 50/50) or for divorce related matters. I'm not helping her with anything else.

Right after I told her that, I get a phone call from the AP's wife. She wants to meet with me next Thur. And I plan to tell her everything I know. She just got my letters a couples weeks ago. So Im sure she was like me in the beginning trying to figure out what the truth is and whats going on.

PS - My wifes reaction so far? Nothing! Same as its been these past seven weeks, no remorse, no empathy, no guilt. Total Vulcan, no feelings.

[This message edited by coda87 at 12:11 AM, October 13th (Sunday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
self-rescuer
Member
Member # 35059
Default  Posted: 4:23 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

Set up an appointment to see YOUR lawyer by YOURSELF.

Do not leave your house until you've spoken to your attorney.

Sadly, as much of a stranger as she appears now, divorce will render her utterly unrecognizable.

Given her last shitty and selfish display of disregard of you there is another thing you must remember - she is no longer your confidant. It is time for you to hold your cards close to the vest. It is so difficult to shift away from the familiar partnership but you must. Everything you share with her now becomes ammunition. So yes, meet with the other BS but remember, it is no longer you WW's business.

And do post on the separation/ divorce forum. It was my best resource during the process.

Good luck. Stay strong. Remember that you deserve good things.


BW 53 WXH 56 & still bewildered
D-Day 9-15-11
Divorce 3-13-13

Just trust yourself, then you will know how to live.
~ Goethe


Posts: 506 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: the south
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:33 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

As I said in my last post your wife is prepared to 'reconcile' as long as she can still see the OM and you don't give her a hard time with your pain and grief.

She doesn't love you or respect you yet you would still have her back as long as she gave up the affair. You still don't see what is important in a marriage; it isn't only the infidelity, its the value she places on you, and currently thats not very much.

Divorce her and see if that induces a change of heart; if not she was lost anyway. Honestly I can't see how this is going to work out; she has zero feelings for you.

Is there anyway you can get her to move out? Why should you disrupt your life any further and end up in a crummy apartment, paying child support and maybe alimony, while she gets to entertain boyfriend in a convenient love nest. You need to get a lot harder and tougher, or your WW is going to take you to the cleaners, and she will have no conscience about doing so.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Simic
New Member
Member # 36675
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

coda87

Hello coda, I'm sorry that this is happening to you and your family. It seems she isn't willing to even try to change and that just makes everything so much worse. I just wanted to let you know I hear you and understand.

Good luck and God bless you.


Posts: 20 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: North Carolina
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, October 13th (Sunday)

Coda,

Isn't it amazing how we feel that we have found some inner strength, and peace---only to have ourselves upended with new revelations?

I am not saying that to be smart, I just want to tell you not to beat yourself up when you wind up taking steps backwards. It is normal in your timeframe.

Like Bigger said earlier, this site is called Surviving Infidelity---not how to guarantee a happy marriage or an easy divorce. It is about getting you emotionally to a better place. And that starts with extricating yourself from this toxic environment.

She has shown you who she now is. Like OK stated, she is neither your friend nor confidante. Quite the opposite. Believe what her actions are stating---that she is not in your marriage any longer.

The current way out of this mess is to dissolve the marriage. You must speak to a lawyer. I doubt that this divorce could be mediated with a single attorney, so I would be looking to retain and file in the very near future. The first steps to divorce may seem the hardest...as the unfairness of it all settles in...but it will eventually be your salvation.

Keep distancing yourself emotionally; you have to accept that she is going to do what she wants to do, and with whom...and you can't change that. But you definitely don't need to make her new lifestyle any easier---you are not the automatic babysitter, and you need to start living your own life again. She is not to be any part of that except for the children.

It will get easier. It may look bleak right now, but it does get better. Take a look over at S/D, and see if that helps.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2114 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

Yes I plan to talk to my own lawyer before I do anything including move out.

My WW got really angry when I told her I'm not babysitting the kids when she goes to see the AP such as volleyball games, dinners, hotels (the hotel comment really pissed her off). But she has done this before while I watched the kids.

Anyway its time for me to move to the divorce/separation forum if any of your are interested in following what happens from now.

Thanks again for all your posts and support.

Aloha,

Coda87


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

As others have said, don't move out.

Posts: 207 | Registered: Oct 2013
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, October 13th (Sunday)

I don't want to move out. But I can't legally make her leave if she doesn't want to. At the same time in cant endure living with her knowing the affair is still ongoing?


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, October 14th (Monday)

Coda,

Take a deep breath. Calm down.

First of all: Yes – right now your marriage is headed towards divorce and you should act accordingly. However there is nothing that your wife has done or that has taken place so far that that makes your case unrecoverable or irreversible. We have seen marriages survive worse – we have seen marriages end for less. No matter what happens then all that is needed to recover is mutual will and commitment. That’s lacking at the moment so the only logical path is divorce.

Remember what I told you in my first post? That we aren’t used to this situation therefore we aren’t certain how to react. Well – Your marriage is on fire and it’s a big snarling flame threatening to destroy all you have built. Our job here on SI is to make sure you don’t rush out of the house and leave important valuables behind or any possibility of saving the house.

One of the best tactics in confrontational situations is reacting in a different manner than expected. Right now your WW expects you to be argumentative and confrontational. In fact she NEEDS that. She needs validation that the marriage is over, that she’s doing “right” in choosing OM, that you are unreasonable and all that. DO NOT PROVIDE HER WITH THAT.

By all means remain firm on your issues but avoid arguments and threats. Treat this as you would a business transaction. Stick to logical, inevitable consequences of the decision to not reconcile. Arguing with your wife over whose fault the divorce is or whether you are controlling or a lousy lover really has no place in dealing with today’s situation.

For example it’s not really a question if you should move out or she move out. It’s a question of what you can afford based on your single salary and joint 50/50 custody. Can you afford the present home? Can she afford the present home? Do you NEED the present home? In those calculations keep in mind that either might have to buy the other out. Keep in mind that there are certain things that won’t work like cohabiting in the house for an extended period. Once again read what I wrote about divorce; even an amicable divorce is a messy event.

So skip any drama in discussing who moves out and turn it into the logical and inevitable discussion of how to divide your assets. You can alternate weeks sleeping in the master-bedroom or either of you move into a different room. Heck – even offer her that she can sleep over at OM’s every other week.

Right now your WW is trying out the thought of divorce. Look – if she was 100% committed to divorce she wouldn’t be asking you if you had talked to an attorney. She would be doing so herself and filing. Best thing to do when someone is trying something on is brutal honesty: This is what divorce looks like. It makes you look fat, old and tired. There is nothing glorious about it.

Do not initiate any talk on divorce particulars. If she starts then try to distance yourself from the discussion with a neutral statement like “There are procedures in place for divorce. We will simply follow them so there really isn’t any point in discussing this now”. If she starts on how this is your fault then “I’m sorry you feel that way. I might not agree but I respect that this is your view. If we had plans to reconcile then this might have some role or significance and could be addressed in MC but since we are divorcing then I really don’t see any profit in discussing this”.

No matter how you go about the divorce – mediation or separate attorneys – then make sure YOU have legal advice. It’s not about trying to get the most out of the divorce. It’s about making sure you get your fair share.

Coda – to date you have cherry-picked the advice offered. That’s OK. I can fully understand that, what with you being in a totally unfamiliar situation. But I think that if you had been slightly more aggressive in exposing to OMW so that she was aware of your WW week’s “holiday”… if you had exposed to people that might impact your wife… If you had been firmer on your boundaries… You might be in a better position now. Or maybe not… we will never know.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, October 14th (Monday)

Yeah she's still figuring out what divorce will look like in her head before pulling the trigger while still trying to hold on to her f"buddy. She's emotionally detached, but probably not financially detached yet. F'world is colliding with finance world in her head most likely. She's trying to figure out how to have her cake and eat it too. DO NOT be surprised if after some time she acts like she wants to come back to you and waffles more. Most likely this may occur after the OM's wife gets involved and he ditches her. Might happen, might not. Mine became all "vulcanized" too, even after I found out ten months later what she really did.

You're just trying to do what you think is right and save your family. We've all been through it and handle it differently. But given her degree of immaturity I doubt it wouldn't have turned out any different. Even under the best circumstances both parties have to be in 110%. She's barely 15% at best. Knowing what you know now (week F'fest with him in the open, comments about hotels), do you honestly think you could go back to her? Could your physical relationship with her ever be the same? The mind movies and total disrespect would drive me insane. I think you know that you deserve better than her immaturity.


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1472 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, October 14th (Monday)

Yes, I really wish I contacted the OMW much earlier. It seems to have put a damper on the Affair since I sent the letter. She called me on Sat. and wants to meet in person on Thur.

Besides the sharing of information with each other, anyone have and other ideas/advice on how the OMW and I can work together to make the affair more difficult for my WW and AP?


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)

Playing devil's advocate here: does this woman really deserve a 2nd chance?

Finding out our loved ones have betrayed us hurts like hell. However, your wife has continued to betray the family unit with no hint of remorse AFTER being caught. She must have seen you completely devastated - and yet decided to go for a week. Then she comes back and gets angry at you for saying you may file for divorce. What planet is she on?

If I were in your shoes I would tell my lawyer to get me the best possible deal. None of this 50/50 bullsh*t. Going away for that week would have been a dealbreaker. She chose the OM, and therefore you are fully entitled to do as much as you can to protect what is left of your family unit.

Or...

If you want to reconcile, I would write an email to both sides of the family/mutual close friends explaining that due to the actions of OM and WW your marriage has been corrupted. Due to this you are seriously considering divorce as well as doing everything you can to shield your children from the selfish actions of OM & WW. You are also 100% committed to making sure that your children will still have a great life - however you will not tolerate OM being anywhere near them. You don't need to go into detail or get emotional - just state the facts and the current situation.

Because of this, her family will start contacting her and ask her what the hell she is doing. Yes, your wife will get angry - ignore her - but most importantly it will destroy her fantasy and make her come to terms with what she has done.


Posts: 207 | Registered: Oct 2013
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:54 AM, October 18th (Friday)

Another update. I met the APs wife today. We talked for four hours straight. I had a lot more info than she had. For example I brought all the emails that I had between my WW and her WH. It made her cry to read them. I felt kind of bad about that. But she said she'd rather know the truth than not know what is going on. Her husband is a jerk. Refuses to talk to her and always stays out until after 12 midnight. He basically told her he'll support her and the kids financially but its over between them. She said he has been like this for several years and the affair convinced her she should divorce him. I told her my wife is still sitting on the fence. And that I still have some feeling to try to R. But that each day that feeling is fading. His wife is a little younger, attractive, and is physically fit (she is certified zumba instructor). And she seems really nice. Not sure why man would cheat on a woman like that.

Anyway, I have less hope now. Sounds like this guy doesn't give an crap about his wife or kids. And wants to be with my wife. I was hoping he would dump my wife once I told his wife. I meet my lawyer again on Monday. I'm preparing for divorce. But still have a little hope left.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 5:01 AM, October 18th (Friday)

I suppose thats the dilemma your WW faces. It must be obvious to her this guy is a first-class jerk, betraying his family and not showing a trace of loyalty and compassion. If she throws her lot in with him might not she end up as a future casualty? As well as disrupting her own family.

What she would dearly want is to keep on cake-eating, until she can get a better picture of mr. jerk and how loyal he might turn out to be. If the affair wanes, as is probable, then she still has her marriage and family.

I'm afraid you are the plan B option, as is common for many BS's. Best approach is to remind your wife that the OM cannot be trusted; he is a cad of the highest magnitude. Maybe you can dig up some information about his past transgressions, that reveal that he is not trustworthy and is a poor long-term investment; certainly not worth giving up your marriage for. Play to your wife's biggest fear.

Meanwhile file for divorce and confront your WW with her ultimate nightmare; disintegration of her family for a short-term relationship. Loss all around.

Avoid confrontation and hostility with your wife; don't make her decision any easier to make. Just be friendly and civil; you have done your best to save the marriage, now its up to her.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:24 AM, October 18th (Friday)

If you had never been cheated on, and then heard this OBS's story, you would not only wonder why this scumbag would cheat on her, but you would also question why she is taking his abuse.

You see, there is so much common ground with BSs that it is almost eerie. She is scared to take action. She knows that her husband is a first class jerkoff, but she loves him, and is afraid to lose what table scraps he is supplying her. And that is sad. Like you, she deserves much better.

Who knows? If she drew a line in the sand, he may come running back. But being that she isn't, and he feels that he has all the power, that dynamic is not going to change until she stands up for herself.

You are further along than that woman is. While you are not yet emotionally detached, you have a better sense of what your future holds---with or without your wife. Hope is not always a bad thing, but it is not what you need to pin your actions on. You need to be as much as a realist as possible, and operate on that mindset.

This sucks. There will never be any reasonable justice for what you have endured. But you still have the ability to find new happiness sooner than later. Just keep focused.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2114 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, October 18th (Friday)

Good news Coda and actually very positive.
If you fell off a ship in the middle of the ocean with no land in the horizon you can either do nothing and drown or decide on a direction towards land based on the best of your knowledge and start swimming. You might drown – you might make land. Inaction is certain to fail – action offers hope. You are taking action and although you might not feel that way I sense you see the horizon.

I have told you that you should look at this as a journey out of infidelity. When you set off on a journey you need to know two things and have a good idea about the third: You need to know where you are headed, you need to know where you are located right now and you need a good idea on how to get to your destination. Fact is the third factor is possibly the least important. How you get there is less important than reaching the eventual destination and it’s impossible to set off unless you know where you are setting off from.

You know where you are:
You are in a marriage with a wife that is having an affair. You know that you aren’t willing to share your wife. You know that you have realized and accepted that unless she commits to the marriage then YOU aren’t willing to remain in a state of infidelity.

You know your destination:
Your destination isn’t divorce any more than your destination is reconciliation. Your destination is getting out of infidelity. This can be done with your wife (if she cooperates) or without your wife.

So it’s all down to how you get there…
You already have a rough outline on how to get there… Keep up pressure. Deal with the situation as it is at each moment. Deal with reality and not fantasy.

Yes – it would be better if OM dumped WW and focused on his family. But actually that’s irrelevant. [Actually the OM has never been really forced into resolving that issue. Like all WS – your wife included - they use all the leeway they are offered. If OMW were to file today then OM reactions might be totally different. Or not. But it’s irrelevant. The only thing relevant is your WW reactions.]

Each and every journey starts with motion. You have already set off the motion. You have told your WW that you won’t remain in infidelity. Now it’s basically an issue of how fast you move towards your destination and whether your WW choses to or can jump on board before you reach some major milestone along the path out of infidelity. IMHO you can totally determine the pace yourself AS LONG as there is motion. If you think not forcing the issue in a hard way is the way to go – then fine. If you are OK with not making her commit in the next week – then fine. Just don’t stop longer at any point than you are comfortable with. Keep the momentum going. Take control of the situation. Make sure you are moving out of infidelity but be open to changes in how to reach your destination.

Coda – Don’t try to educate your wife on how hopeless the OM is. There is nothing you can say that will make being with OM sound like a bad idea to WW. Telling her that he’s ignoring his family, leaving kids… it won’t make him any worse in her eyes. It will only make you sound desperate and thereby less desirable.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
Drowninginitall
Member
Member # 40968
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, October 18th (Friday)

I just wanted to say in sorry you're dealing with all of this. I'm new here but it seems to me like you've gotten a lot of support, some questions answered, and some advice. I hope that you can be strong, be true to yourself, isn't find the answers you need.

Posts: 121 | Registered: Oct 2013
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Just like the last poster said.

Be strong and be true to YOURSELf!

Right now you are the only one who gives a shit about you. Your WW quit that job.

Please stay focused on the prize, YOU! You getting through and healing from your WW infidelity.

(((((Coda87)))))


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1144 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
DefeatedDad
Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, October 18th (Friday)

I think you are doing fine under the circumstances. Keep moving forward and working the 180. I did the 180 on my WW for two months and it saved our marriage.

If the OMW is cute you should ask her out.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, October 18th (Friday)

I think the OMW is attractive especially compared to my WW who although still has her beauty on the outside, seems to be rotting on the inside.

[This message edited by coda87 at 4:02 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, October 18th (Friday)

Don't lose sight of another problem if your wife reluctantly decides to reconcile. She has really rubbed your face in her infidelity; blatantly having sex with the OM with your full knowledge; i.e.. she made you a cuckold.

Given that she won't exactly be brimming with remorse, how will you manage to suppress the humiliation, bitterness and resentment thats going to surface when you do attempt reconciliation? You can bet your wife won't tolerate much negative input but with the OM just a passing memory, you would have to be a saint to not be angry at the insulting, disrespectful treatment you received.

As regards reconciling, its a case of being careful what you wish for.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:01 AM, October 19th (Saturday)

T/J (of sorts…)

Nearly every single poster here on SI that entered reconciliation didn’t have a spouse showing remorse or “true” remorse at the time when they entered R. It’s often entered reluctantly, with great trepidation, as a less evil option than divorce… Plus the original “remorse” tends to be a remorse for getting caught and a remorse for being so stupid. It’s not until the WS gets the true scope of the damage caused that the remorse becomes “true”.

Plus each and every poster that has successfully reconciled has had to deal with what some call humiliation, bitterness and resentment. And they cope. They seem to be fully capable of managing that. IMHO there is no humiliation for ME if a spouse decides to have an affair. After all – we tend to agree that the infidelity is caused because the WS is lacking – not because we are lacking.

I think we should keep in mind that this very house we are meeting in – SI.com – was built and administrated by a couple that had to “deal with the humiliation, bitterness and resentment”. I have had the privilege of interacting with them both online and can’t sense an iota of any of those emotions. I know that one of the moderators here reconciled his marriage from what most called at the time a hopeless situation because of the “humiliation”. In his case he simply started off on reconciliation with a wife that realized she had issues, committed to NC and was willing to change. The “true remorse” probably came a lot later.

Think of it this way: Imagine you bumped your car into someone. Person falls down but then stands up and says he’s OK. You might get out of the car and see if the person is OK. You might apologize and show some remorse for bumping into them. The apology and remorse is true compared to what had happened. Later that day you get the news that the persons spleen burst an hour after the incident and the person nearly died. Would your sense of remorse remain the same or would it intensify? Would you think the original apology was enough? It’s the same with infidelity; it’s a rare situation where the WS realizes the TRUE scope of the damage caused until way into reconciliation. It’s then and only then that TRUE remorse can be attained.
End of T/J

Coda – your wife has done what she has done. It’s totally your call where and when you pick up that last grain of sand that breaks your back. I have seen people reconcile from “more” than your seem to be dealing with. I have seen people divorce for “less”. Either option you will get support here.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
Dawn58
Member
Member # 37656
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, October 19th (Saturday)

Hi coda,

So sorry that you have to be where you are, but know that you are not alone.

For me, I had to judge by my cheating spouse's actions, not his words. I confronted him, he threw me out of the house (and I left, because all I could think at that moment, was to get away from him). He talked like he was on the fence, but his actions told me that he was with the other woman. That was nearly 11 months ago. I listened to his actions and filed for divorce. He's already engaged to the other woman and we have not even had our first mediation meeting!

All I can say, is that I deserve a husband who is truthful, devoted and mature. I do not deserve a spouse that lies, deceives and cheats. I deserve so much more than that.

It has not been easy, I have walked through the darkest shadow of the soul. My heart was shattered but each day, I wake up and show up.

It's been such a roller coaster ride. Right now, do whatever you can to take good care of yourself. Breath, know that this will pass. Exercise helped me deal with some of the physical stress. I lost a lot of weight but have put much of it back on. Post here often, get support. I started seeing a therapist and that's been so helpful.

This is your time to heal. The affair is her stuff, don't take any responsibility for that. I also read about narcissists and that helped me to understand that the affair has to do with my husband's dysfunction, not mine. He was married before and I later found out he cheated twice on his second wife. He probably cheated on his first wife too. I was his third wife and he's already found wife #4. We know how that is going to end up!!


I got into the marriage, because I loved him. I got out of the marriage, because I love me.

Posts: 487 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Southern California
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, October 20th (Sunday)

Coda,

You mention that OMW is cute and question why anyone would cheat on her.

By doing this you are indirectly implying two things that I want correct you on.

First you are indirectly implying that you are some sort of Quasimodo. After all – since you think cute people shouldn’t get cheated on then your WW cheated on you because your face looks like the north end of a dog going south…
Never seen you and probably never will. However I have NEVER encountered a case of infidelity that’s been explained or justified by the cheated spouses ugliness. Personal beauty of the betrayed spouse – internal or external – is NEVER a factor in the reason for why the WS cheats.

The comment indicates that the infidelity seriously impacted your sense of self-worth. That’s to be expected. Most BS come here asking what they did wrong to make the WS cheat. And yes – infidelity is more likely to happen in a marriage dealing with problems. But that’s mainly because a marriage can’t be healthier than the sum of both participants. So even if you give it 100% your marriage can never be better than that plus your spouse’s contribution.

That leads into the second implication I want to correct: That the infidelity is your fault.
NO NO NO: They cheat because of faults within themselves – not because of faults in you.

Your wife could be as unhappy as a sumo wrestler in a diet camp but that would never explain or justify her decision that the ideal way to deal with her unhappiness was by having an affair. Your WW had an affair because SHE has issues that she decides to deal with in a totally inappropriate and wrong way. Part of R is for her to discover those issues and for you two to improve communications and comfort so she is capable of bringing those issues to the table.

Finally Coda; Based on what you have shared about the OM. I’m guessing he’s one of those players whose radar is constantly on. He will have affair after affair and is constantly working on his next conquest. Chances are that once the cost of keeping your wife as a fuck-buddy outweigh the benefits then he will dump her. Increase the cost for him having her by following my advice on making the affair a hard place to be. Once he has to buy movie tickets for her AND the kids (bc you refuse to babysit for her) he will start looking around. Not that it makes R any more probable for you – you do NOT want to be the backup plan – but it makes your WW face reality faster and REALITY is what might pop your W out of the fog.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
Juanita
New Member
Member # 39913
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, October 20th (Sunday)

7 months after Dday and the anguish is still twisting me into knots. Be careful, Coda, of more lasting damage you can do yourself.
A normally cheerful happy person I find myself taking antidepressants, antianxiety medications, have had two car accidents (first ever in 56 years of driving), am in therapy after much searching, am facing surgery for breast cancer day after tomorrow and for uterine cancer on Halloween. ALL of these are directly related to the rejection, to the pain. Further I came to understand that the years of "stuffing away" the stress had led to a truly threatening condition from
repeated, chronic diverticulitis, leading to surgery which nearly killed me before my WS died. Before the truth with evidence became irrefutable.
Seems like a lot. It is. A death wish can take different forms, but it's not a solution because nothing can be built nor learnt from it. Your family doesn't recover.
These are the things I tell myself in the bottoming out moments.
I'm still discovering evidence of the depth of their involvement, of the extent over time. She, his mistress, contacted him shortly after we married and had our child. He was already (or still . . .from before I met him) receptive. Our child is 41.
My health battles are directly connected. All I say is watch. Whatever happens there are two children who need your steadiness and your good health. There's more I would say but this is so long.
I love Bigger's ability to create allegorical explanations. They are truly right on !
Again - take care of youself.
Juanita


La Posada

"Mourning is not forgetting. It is an undoing.
Every minute tie has to be untied, and something permanent
and valuable recovered and assimilated from the knot."
- Margery Allingham


Posts: 15 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New York State
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, October 21st (Monday)

I found out that my wife has a secret laptop. I checked her bank records and credit card records and see no record of a purchase. Could have been paid with cash, but no record of large withdrawals of cash either. So I assume that the AP purchased it for her.
She wanted more time to think things over. I said only if there is NC with the AP. How naive of me to believe her. Anyway she didn't keep her end of the deal. So this morning before I left to take our kids to school, I told her calmly that she should leave the house. She said why. I said because she is still seeing the AP. She denied it. She said lets talk about it later. I said I don't want to discuss it.

I have a 3pm mtg with my attorney. And I plan to ask him to start the divorce filing. And I want to see if we can legally separate prior to the divorce asap. I'm not sure what the laws are in Hawaii. I prefer if she leaves the house. But I will leave if it doesn't jeopardize custody with my kids later on.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Coda,
It’s your call. Like I have always said then you will know when and what will make your reach a limit.
I think it’s totally OK for you to file. Your WW has had reasonable time to decide and its fine for her to see that you take this situation seriously. I know that of the two options; R or D you would prefer R but I hope your real wish is that you get out of infidelity – preferably by R but otherwise through D.
However… The fact she has a laptop does not necessarily confirm continued contact. Not unless you are not telling us that you saw confirmation of continued contact on the laptop. The secrecy is definitely a big no-no and so is the delay in committing, but don’t assume there is continued contact simply because you found the laptop.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, October 21st (Monday)

It's not only based on the laptop. She still has the other cell phone. I found the bill for Sept. 11 hours of calls, 104 text msgs. She uses her other phone, the one I pay for business and personal use.
It's also based on meeting & talking with the OMW. She has confirmed some things for me. But my WW makes no effort to ease my suspicions with all her secrecy. And she started going out at night again a couple nights a week. Her excuse is clients. But who stays out with clients till 11pm?

In any case, I still prefer R if my WW can snap of out her fog. But my goal has shifted to getting out of this infidelity. I just can't take it anymore. I've lost 25 pounds in 2 months. Today is the 2 month anniversary of D-Day for me. I've seen no progress or effort with my WW, this after much effort from myself, several MC sessions, basically letting my WW call all the shots. In fact her attitude is worse now that when I first found out.
I need to start taking control of the situation now.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
DefeatedDad
Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Her buying a laptop without telling Coda is financial infidelity.

This woman is a joke. She doesn't take her marriage or Coda seriously. Time for Coda to make things serious. Having her served with D papers at work is what knocked my wife off her fence, and it might work for Coda.

[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 11:55 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

The AP bought her the laptop. So I guess his wife can claim financial infidelity if it can be proved. I notified her about it.

When I got home last night, my WW acted like nothing happened. She made dinner, we at together as a family, small talk about the kids, usual stuff. That morning I told her to leave the house. She is truly a Vulcan. But she doesn't know that I went to the lawyer and told him to file. She should get served in the next week or so.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 11:18 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Coda
Have you outed her affair to family, friends or her business associates?

Just curious how contained you have kept her affair.

Have you discussed with her about sitting down with the kids and telling them that you guys are splitting up?

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:40 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

I have only told a few of my trusted friends and my boss. I have not told her family, friends, coworkers. I felt if we ended up reconciling, it wouldn't be so good to let everyone know.

We have not spoken directly with the kids. But they suspect something is wrong (esp the oldest one). That is a step I am not looking forward to. I'll wait til she is served and see her reaction before I make any further steps. Spent the night figuring out our finances in detail since the attorney requested it.

I feel very depressed about this. But I keep moving forward.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 5:00 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

The fear of exposing the affair is understandable.
But believe us – NOTHING is going to help towards possible reconciliation as much as exposure.

Look at it this way: Letting other people that might influence your WW in a positive way might make reconciliation harder. But the word “harder” implies that it’s still possible; harder is not the same as impossible. Reconciliation while the affair is still active isn’t “hard” – it’s impossible.
In a sense you are at a fork in the road: One path might seem easier to walk but really doesn’t lead to your destination. The other might be steeper and narrower, but just might get you there.

I suggest you let your wife know you are moving on because she hasn’t committed to NC with OM. Don’t have to tell her that you have filed; divorce isn’t the destination, it’s simply a logical step on the path. I suggest you address the issue ASAP on when and how to tell the kids and the other stakeholders in the marriage.

I suggest you be very direct on these issues. I am firmly of the view that children should be told the truth in a non-confrontational and age-appropriate way: “Mommy has a new boyfriend and dad can’t accept that. Therefore we are not going to be living together”. I also think in-laws, close friends and family should be told the truth: We are divorcing because WW is in an affair and refuses to end it.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

^^^THIS^^^ is very true.

Read it again and again. I told anybody I wanted to or some I did not. It was all falling apart anyway, I was not going to help him to hide his secrets. We also sat both boys down and it was not easy, but it WAS reality.

Once you open this up to those who need to know it will lift a huge load off of your back. Trust us.

Nothing is easy about this but the road thru it will help you heal sooner.


Posts: 5698 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 6:46 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

Bigger is right Coda.

Exposure is very important in ending the Affair.

Right now your wife and the OM have their secret.

Bring their secret into the light.

Let friends and family know that you hope they will assist your family during this troubling time.

And if your wife gets angry just ask her what did she expect would come out of this mess that she made.....

You are not exposing her Affair out of revenge. You are exposing to end her Affair. To stop the pain she is inflicting on you and your kids on a daily basis.

In the end she might just gain some respect for you.

Serve her at work especially if she works with OM.

And talk to your kids.

HM64

[This message edited by happyman64 at 9:33 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

How does your wife get to see the OM these days? Are you watching the kids? Refuse to. Or, if she says she's going out at 7:00, at 6:30 say you're going to the store and will be back in 15 minutes. Then go to a movie and don't answer your cell so she CAN'T go out. Boo hoo.

Is there a pattern to the nights they meet up? If so, start making plans for those nights. If she gives you a hard time tell her you're happy to call one of her family members and ask them to babysit because you have plans and your wife needs to go screw her boyfriend.

You need to make this hard for her. See an attorney ALONE and file ASAP. None of this 50/50 crap. You need to protect yourself. Read Allatsea and Abbondad's stories. And I don't think you should leave the home, I think that can actually hurt you in the D process.
Strength and hugs to you!


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 270 | Registered: Mar 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

Telling your WW that you are filing, but would much rather reconcile, just encourages her to conduct an underground affair. All she has to do is to convince you that she in a state of reconciliation and get you to buy into it.

You should quit offering her any alternative. Just file and say you are done; too much humiliation and broken promises and now divorce is the only option. Stop counseling and begin the process of ending this farce. Tell the kids right now; tell family and friends.

Until your wife really, really thinks that you have snapped and its over with a capital O; she won't change her attitude. Offer any chance of R and she'll begin this stupid, hurtful game again.

Part of the trouble is that your wife has heaped so much humiliation on you and you still want to reconcile! She can't believe anyone would endure so much degradation and still want to mend the marriage. She wouldn't put up with you doing this to her. She would end the relationship pronto. So what does she think of you enduring so much abasement? No better word than contempt; thats just what she is displaying and you should not accept this, not if you have any pride left.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

Once I decided to file, I have not told her I already went to see my attorney and told him to file. She will find out once she is served the divorce papers. I did write I letter to her saying that I can't endure this anymore and that I am moving on. She probably thinks I am bluffing because in the past I've always said, "I'm going to see my attorney tomorrow" or something to that effect.

Also the last MC session was on 10/9, the day she came back from her vacation and said she doesn't think the marriage will work out. We have no further MC sessions scheduled.

The OMW said that their divorce will take a while because of immigration issues and because they own several companies which she should get 50% of the value. So I just think my WW is waiting for him to be free, and just using me to stay comfortable/financially secure until that time comes.
Or if it doesn't work out with him, she thinks I'm still here waiting for her. I realize all this now. And all the information I have and her actions back up these assumptions.

The problem is that I feel totally heartbroken. The last three days since I've decided to move on, the pain I feel is almost as bad as I felt right after D-Day. And I'm worried that one small gesture of kindness from my WW will put me back in the palm of her hand again. How do I stay strong? The OMW is so decisive and way tougher than me. I wish I could be that way.

I have to stay in my home with the kids. Attorney said it doesn't look good if I leave because that is disrupting my kids life. I asked my WW to leave a couple days ago. But I can't force her to leave per my attorney. It would be easier for me emotionally if she was out of the house.

[This message edited by coda87 at 4:01 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)


Coda
Break out of victim mentality....
Your house is on fire. Your last post reeks of wondering why your house is on fire, that it isn’t fair your house is on fire, that the flames will damage your curtains and the water to extinguish it will mess up your carpets… All good and true issues but none that is going to help you kill the fire.

Set your sights on the destination:
Sending her a letter that you are moving out and then not moving out… that’s breaking the three paths I suggested. Moving out is making the affair easier, by threatening it and not acting on it it’s making the marriage less attractive and it makes divorce easier. From now on stop making threats and start taking action.

Attorney tells you not to move out. So don’t. It has to be worth it to endure some pain if it makes the rest of your life better. But start making REALISTIC plans for how the in-house separation will look like. Do you have an extra room? Can one of the kids move in with mommy in the big bedroom and you move into a kids room? Separate beds in the master-bedroom? Can you alternate so you spend 2 days a week with friends, she spends 2 days a week with friends and you cohabit for 3? Think out of the box. Think solutions – not problems.

Coda – Afraid your wife will show a sign of kindness? Well – the only thing she can do that can change anything is commit to NC. That’s it. Enforceable NC. She does that and if you are still willing anything can happen. Until then try as you can to feel empowered. After all – your wife is still meandering around in the fog. You on the other hand have a destination.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

So I just think my WW is waiting for him to be free, and just using me to stay comfortable/financially secure until that time comes.
Or if it doesn't work out with him, she thinks I'm still here waiting for her.

I think your assessment is spot on, but its highly unlikely that a guy whose about to endure divorce and lose half his money, will then take on a woman with three kids. Their affiliation will be to you not to this interloper who their mom is so taken with. Why should this OM bring up someone else's children? He will have just got free of one suffocating situation and I don't see him committing to your wife and getting into another one.

He's just using your wife for some exciting sex not for any binding commitment. Wait and see. Meanwhile divorce her rather than wait for her to leave with the kids, or get you out of the house so boyfriend can move in. You've had enough humiliation; its time for you to assume some measure of control and stop waiting for her to dump on you again.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

Sorry if I implied something else, but I'm not moving out of my house. I can't financially afford to anyway. In the letter I said I am moving on (not out). By moving on I meant doing what I have to do to get out of the infidelity situation which to me at this point means filing for divorce. My attorney advised me not to move out, so I will endure living with my WW until the divorce. We already sleep in separate rooms. Although it's very difficult for me emotionally, I think I can endure it now that I'm moving forward. I'm just worried I'll give in again to my WW if she starts trying to persuade me to wait again. I will insist on verifiable NC this time or no deal. Or maybe she won't do anything. It's puzzling why she is not reacting to anything (my request for her to leave the house, my letter). I bet she has no reaction to being filed divorce papers either. She is Mrs. Spock/Vulcan.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

I will insist on verifiable NC this time or no deal.

There you go again, trying to bargain with the devil. That won't end her affair, since there is no such thing as verifiable NC. She's an accomplished liar and will keep her lover until such time as he gets bored with her, or she leaves to be with him.
You are helpless if you keep on trying to bargain with her. Since she has no respect for you, she will do as she thinks fit.

Its highly likely that the affair with the OM will peter out; how do you think that leaves your marriage? Its not likely she will magically resume loving you, so you will continue to be unhappy for the foreseeable future; trying to come to terms with her cruel behavior and lack of compassion.

You're trapped by your own lack of courage, but nevertheless I sincerely wish you future happiness. Maybe your wife will come to her senses after all; I certainly hope so.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

But believe us – NOTHING is going to help towards possible reconciliation as much as exposure.

^^^ yup. I had my WW tell everyone. I was not going to have anyone think that she was a 'victim'. Guess what? She is still alive. The world did not end with disclosure.
Think solutions – not problems.

^^^ yup. no more bargains. Give her the papers. Then watch very closely...and do not budge. You will know if she defogs or is remorseful or wants to save the M when you see it. It will not be because of any deal....
She is Mrs. Spock/Vulcan.

^^^She is probably just obsessing over OM in fantasy world as a coping mechanism. "Oh, I will be with OM very soon...all is well."


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 892 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

Coda
We know. It like a body snatcher took over your wife.

The key is to stop focusing on her.

Put the effort on you, your kids and the future.

Your wife is just someone that you used to know.

And stop looking for that one sign of kindness from her or her agreeing to a verifiable NC.

She lies. She screwed the OM for a sex filled Victoria secret week. She does not respect you let alone herself.

She deserves to feel the loss of her marriage.

Give her the divorce she craves. She is not confused at all because she is a user.

So respect yourself.

Your wife is not your friend anymore. She thinks she found greener pastures.

Wish her good luck.

Because they always affair down.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday)

Coda
We know. It like a body snatcher took over your wife.

The key is to stop focusing on her.

Put the effort on you, your kids and the future.

Your wife is just someone that you used to know.

And stop looking for that one sign of kindness from her or her agreeing to a verifiable NC.

She lies. She screwed the OM for a sex filled Victoria secret week. She does not respect you let alone herself.

She deserves to feel the loss of her marriage.

Give her the divorce she craves. She is not confused at all because she is a user.

So respect yourself.

Your wife is not your friend anymore. She thinks she found greener pastures.

Wish her good luck.

Because they always affair down.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, October 24th (Thursday)

I don‘t think that Coda has showed a lack of courage. Far from it. What we recommend is always a big step out of some perceived safety zone. Like I said in my first post on this thread then one of the biggest issues is that we really don’t know how to respond when we face infidelity in our lives. This site can provide a guide and it takes courage to even take the smallest steps. No – Coda is not lacking courage but he sometimes has to retain his focus. That’s where we should be whipping him on.

I also think we need to remember that this site is full of cases where people have reconciled. It’s hosted by a reconciled couple and many of the moderators, admins, guides and key posters are in reconciled relationships. Heck – some of the posters I respect the most are former waywards. Yes – there are many that aren’t. Many that decided or were forced to separate and divorce but IMHO there is nothing that has happened to-date in Coda’s situation that makes it non-recoverable EXCEPT the ongoing affair.

Yes – that is a big “EXCEPT”. But as long as Coda has a will to reconcile then all that is needed to initiate reconciliation is a commitment to NC with the OM from the WW. So Coda – IF you want to R and your WW does not want to D then what you need from her is NC with OM and that NC needs to be enforceable. How you enforce it is another issue and we can cross that bridge IF we ever get to it. However without that commitment there is nothing she can offer that justifies that you stray off the course you are on now.
And Coda – even IF she offers to meet that condition then actions count – words don’t. Keep your course.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
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Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, October 24th (Thursday)

I stopped by my attorney's office yesterday to sign the divorce complaint, which they will deliver to the court today. They should get it back tomorrow, then my wife can get served. It should be early next week. If I were to bet on it, I'd say she has no reaction again.

Last night I met with the AP's wife again. Not a lot of new info shared, but at least there is a sense of mutual support. And I admire her resolve. She has no desire to reconcile with her WH. And is looking forward to life without him.

I think my WW was a little disturbed that I went out and didn't tell her who with. She tried to pick fight with me. But I was able to avoid it by not really responding to her jab.

I feel really nervous about what I am doing. Like Bigger said, I am way out of my comfort zone. We'll see what happens when she get's served with the D papers.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
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Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, October 24th (Thursday)

A few years ago there was an SI member whose wife had numerous affairs and basically refused to cease the adultery. His approach, since they had children and he had a great deal of affection for his WW, was to wait it out.

He avoided all hostility and conflicts and addressed her marital resentments, then just waited. She eventually turned back to her marriage and basically they are still happily married judging by a post he submitted a few months ago.

Since I do not believe you will choose to divorce, mainly because of your 3 children, which is very commendable, I suggest that you should contemplate the same approach.

Address her resentments which gives her no further justification to have affairs; remain friendly and non-hostile and also build a social life of your own; male and female friends.

When your WW sees that you no longer give a damn who she copulates with and you really don't care about her and the OM, you set the groundwork for increased respect from your wife; she can see you are moving on although you remain married to her. When the affair between her and boyfriend peters out - who knows? I'm betting you will be in the drivers seat by that time. It just takes the determination to select a way forward and stick with it.

I agree with the others you can get your wife back, its a matter of selecting the correct approach. If you don't want to divorce and your wife won't stop cheating, consider patiently waiting it out. If the result is that you fall out of love, recover your self-esteem and don't want to reconcile, then she reaps the deserved penalty for betraying you, your family and the marriage.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
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Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, October 24th (Thursday)

My plan was to wait it out and hope she snaps out of it. But I can't handle waiting any longer than I already have, about two months. And lately I am having serious doubts if I want to still even be with her. If she told me when I found out, the affair was a mistake, expressed remorse, came clean, that would be a different story.
But the continual lies bother me more than the affair itself. In her mind I guess I am not even worthy enough as a person to be told the truth.

So basically, after she is served. And I see no reaction from her, I'll take that as meaning our marriage is over. Maybe I should have waited longer. But we all have our limits. I guess mine is shorter than others. Also my attorney said the divorce process will take several months to go through the process. So I'll have waited 2 mos plus how ever many months the divorce takes.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, October 24th (Thursday)

I agree with you Coda.

The level disrespect she is showing you and the marriage is too much too tolerate.

Bad behavior has consequences.

Why on earth would you wait around for her to finish her Affair. She might not ever!

Instead you show her a consequence. Divorce.

Maybe she wakes up maybe not. But you have an option to make a stand and separate yourself from her infidelity.

Just maybe over these next few months she wakes up.

But she is clearly in the OM's camp so I see little choice but too move forward right now.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
OK now
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Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, October 24th (Thursday)

I'm worried that one small gesture of kindness from my WW will put me back in the palm of her hand again. How do I stay strong?

The road to divorce is a tough road to follow and takes a lot of resolve to see it through. I'm betting your wife will turn on the charm to get you to drop the action as well as promising NC and reminding you of your obligation to the children etc. etc.. What then?

In that case you would be better to refuse to listen to her false promises and carry on with the divorce until the decree is issued. It would be better if you didn't use the filing for divorce to try and get her to see reason. It should be a reflection of your anger at the way you have been treated and a certainty that you don't want to live with this woman any longer.

If however deep sincere remorse and grovelling apologies were observed, then you just might reconsider your objective, but your main goal right now should be the divorce if you can see it through. Therein lies the question.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
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Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, October 25th (Friday)

Now my WW says she is looking for a place so she can move out and separate before the divorce. She plans to leave the kids with me and just visit them/pick them up from school when she can. She still hesitates to give me a straight answer about whether she wants a divorce. But is sounds like she does.

Despite my gut feelings and some evidence that makes me believe the affair is still going on, she continues to deny it. Even says she doesn't like the AP anymore because now the affairs has been exposed to the BS's, it's too much trouble to meet him. According to her the big issue is our marriage (not the affair).

I'm still moving forward with the divorce. My attorney already filed the complaint with the court. Next step is to get my wife served which should be early next week.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
DefeatedDad
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Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, October 25th (Friday)

Waiting a wayward out is dumb advice. Without consequences and being taken to the brink of losing everything, how will they learn and become truly empathetic?


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, October 25th (Friday)

Coda,
Short on time so this might be rushed...

So we go back to the burning house analogy: You have gotten out of bed, discovered the fire, dialed 911 for assistance. woken up the family and have started getting your valuables out. Now if you managed to contain the flames to one room I doubt you would phone the fire department and ask them to turn around or drive slowly. I doubt you would tell your kids to go back to bed or start putting your valuables back in. I’m thinking you would make SURE the fire is totally out.

It’s the same with your wife. You and OMW have possibly put a damper on the affair but I think it’s still ongoing. Your best bet is to simply assume the affair is ongoing. Remember – you don’t need to “prove” anything. You only need to be reasonably certain yourself.

But… That doesn’t really matter does it?
Your WW has told you she doesn’t think the marriage can make it. She has told you she wants to separate. She has told you she’s looking for a place to stay. So why not believe her?

But… That doesn’t really matter either does it?
After all – this is about YOU and YOUR options.

Basically you have two realistic options.
You could reconcile but then you need to want it AND she has to be willing to commit to it. IMHO all that is needed to START R is that the affair is over. Won’t get far along in R with only that but it will get you started.
The KEY requirement for R is that both parties commit to it. She’s not committing is she? So if a KEY requirement is missing… well… isn’t this option off the table?
Back to the burning house; while the affair is ongoing and WW not committed to R then trying to R is comparable to negotiating with the flames.

Your other realistic option is divorce. Granted you could also simply separate but IMHO once it gets to that stage it’s better to get it over with and move on with life.
Good thing about D is that only one of the spouses needs to want it. It’s something YOU can control. And Coda – think logically. Just like you didn’t want your house on fire it’s the reality you are dealing with. Just like you don’t WANT to divorce then the reality is your wife doesn’t want the marriage. So D isn’t necessarily what you WANT but it might be what you NEED.

So Coda – soldier on. File, get as much work done as possible to help the attorney. Prepare how to tell the kids… If your WW has second doubts then if YOU want to R then simply tell her what you need. And unless she agrees to your requirements you simply soldier on.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
Forsaken
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Default  Posted: 11:27 PM, October 25th (Friday)

Hey Coda!

I was you in 2009. You love your wife. You think this is all some big misunderstanding and if you wait long enough, she will see what a great guy you are and how she has made a horrible mistake.

This will never happen.

To this day, my WW denies the affair, and I have *pictures*. No remorse, no making amends for past evil, no respect. I left her two years ago, and it almost killed me. But now, I see what I was wrapped up in.

Get your self esteem back. Get your life back. You deserve better than garbage. She sounds like she might have Borderline Personality Disorder....search the web for articles on that and see if it sounds familiar...if it does, call it a day. Borderlines never get "better".

Three years later, my WW has been with 13 people that I know about. All attempts at relationships have failed for her. NOW she wants me back.

Sorry, but my self-esteem doesn't go that low anymore, my dear. :)

Hang in there buddy

Forsaken


Posts: 119 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Central USA
coda87
Member
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Default  Posted: 12:00 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

I looked up BPD. And she doesn't match the symptoms, description. She does seem like a Narcissist the last few months. Prior to all this she was straight arrow, responsible, good mother, a little bit of a drama queen and a whiner. But nothing that really bothered me most of the time.

How she is acting seems to follow the pattern of the description that alot of other BS's have described their WH/WW.

Anyway, I've decided on Divorce. If by some miracle she sees the light, maybe I will reconsider. But knowing her for 14 years, she won't face reality til I'm long gone. Then I'll get a call, years later like you, about how sorry she is.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Forsaken
Member
Member # 25630
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

It sounds like BS now, but time really will make you feel much better about all this. The pain DOES fade, but it takes a good bit of time. Your brain just has to rewire itself to the reality that this is a bad person, and that's the last thing you want to do right now. I was the same way. I wanted to believe that somewhere in there, she cared...that maybe there was a spark of life left. Hoping for this will prevent healing unfortunately. And since she blames her cheating on you, she's never going to own it or want to fix things, unless she is out on the street with no where to go and no options.

It's exponentially harder when you have kids together, I am in the same boat with you there as well. No clean split, you will have to face her and your pain at least every other week, which makes healing harder still. The good news is before you know it, it doesn't hurt anymore, and you see her with clear eyes. And you realize you have found your strength again.


Posts: 119 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Central USA
Bigger
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Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

I think we BS all try to understand our WS actions; try to get to the “why” they had the affair. Honestly I doubt we ever really do. It’s a bit like trying to understand why people crash planes into buildings, or why Ted Bundy got off killing women. I for one have never “understood” why my fiancé picked up random sex-partners. But I eventually accepted that she was broken, that she had issues that she needed to deal with and mend, that her actions were not normal by any accepted standards.

It’s the same with your wife. She probably isn’t BPD or a SA. She might be the best mom in town, great at her job and a great golfer. But… there is something in her that makes her think having an affair is acceptable…

So don’t try to “understand” her. Don’t find reasons for her affair. Maybe some years down the line you can do that if it’s still an issue.

For now then simply accept what’s going on as reality. And work from that reality.

Coda – It might sound as if I’m giving you hope that WW will reconcile. Although I believe keeping consistent pressure and working towards getting out of infidelity is the most probable way to reach reconciliation then it’s also the path to divorce. You have to keep up the pressure. If your WW claims to want to R then you have to evaluate her ACTIONS – not her words – and not ease the pressure until the actions confirm the words. For example; if she comes to you today and wants to R you don’t stop the divorce process but you might delay a meeting with your attorney.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

Waiting a wayward out is dumb advice

Thats a tough guy statement that ignores the fact that sometimes the reality of a situation forces the BS to in essence 'wait it out'

A BW with 3 kids, SAHM, no income of her own may logically consider waiting it out, if there are signs that the WH will eventually see reason. There are the children to consider first and foremost and if the WH is a good father, the pain caused to them by separation is just plain unacceptable, intolerable.

Separation may be initiated by the WH, that can't be helped, but waiting the affair out is sometimes a sensible approach if circumstances dictate.

Coda has left enough clues that his feelings for his WW and the children are so strong that he may at least consider holding back from the divorce and waiting. If his wife called his bluff and he had withdrawn the petition, he would have ended up in a far worse position. As it turns out his wife seems keen to move on and Coda's mind is being made up for him. So its divorce after all.

[This message edited by OK now at 7:39 AM, October 26th (Saturday)]


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

Coda
When your wife says she is moving out and leaving you with the kids that is a sign that all she is concerned about is her freedom to screw who she pleases.

Not a very mature outlook for a woman with young kids.

I call this type of woman a WAW. A walk away wife.

Give her a dose of reality.

File for a Divorce ASAP. Hit her up for child support since you will have them most of the time.

If she really starts acting out and does not want the kids 50/50 maybe a custody hearing is necessary.

For a person who originally told you she did not want to leave the marriage she sure is singing a different tune now.

Protect yourself. Protect your kids.

And see if your wife will consent to a physche evaluation.......

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
DefeatedDad
Member
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Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

She is a WAW to the bone. And this was most likely an exit affair.

Coda read the 180. Memorize it, learn it, live it. It really does work.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

I am glad to see your resolve and agree with the advice given here about moving forward with the divorce. BUT, I suggest that you look at the timing of everything in the context of maximizing your position.

This is now a business deal that will affect your financial situation and the kids for many years to come. Look at what you want to achieve and figure out the best strategy for getting there. So, for example, if you really believe that she will move out and leave you with primary custody, (practically--not legally)I would suggest establishing that situation before making her "wake up" with a divorce petition being served on her.

You know your "opponent" in this business negotiation better than anyone else. Use that knowledge to formulate your strategy. Good luck to you and think this through.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 448 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
cliffside
Member
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Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, October 26th (Saturday)

Coda,
As a Mom, I can not fathom EVER leaving my children with my husband to live in an apartment by myself. My husband's FOW did this too and I believe the A for her was an exit A. I also am pretty sure she has a detached personality disorder and a plethora of other issues because she was a bunny boiler. But that's another story.

Please apply for full custody. I say this gently - It's not normal for a Mother to willingly leave the children with their Father. Sorry, we just have this biological bond. If she can do this so callously it means she's detached. Make sure you protect yourself and your kids...

Stay strong and hugs to you.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 270 | Registered: Mar 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

As a Mom, I can not fathom EVER leaving my children with my husband to live in an apartment by myself

I am with you on this one cliffside; just what is she thinking?

Maybe a few months indulging in her affair to see where it leads; will the OM accept her children, or will there be conflicts? If he gets along with the kids then she applies for full custody.

I just don't believe this WW is going to walk away from the kids while she pursues an independent life. She's up to something and there's a good bet she wants to check out her future with OM and put her family life on hold. At least until she has further evidence that he is worth taking the risk for.

File for divorce and apply for full custody while she is undecided. Don't wait for her and boyfriend to join forces against you.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

Well… A logical consequence of wanting to terminate a marriage is that there are changes in where people reside and where children spend their time. Personally – as a father – I can’t see anything more “wrong” in a woman moving out from the family home than a father once the kids have reached a certain age.

I think her decision Coda is based on two things: Bad advice and a lack of reality.
Bad advice because her leaving will give you an edge in prime custody.
I don’t think gunning for sole custody is necessarily a good idea – prime is fine but so far your wife doesn’t sound like an incapable parent. Like it or not then having an affair won’t make a judge see your wife as an incapable parent to the extent of seeing her as a threat to your kids.
Prime custody is fine though and gives you a slight edge.

Lack of reality because she thinks after separation/divorce there won’t really be much change in your relationship. She thinks she can go out with OM on a Friday evening, have a nice time with him and then on Saturday morning he drops her off at the family home so she can spend time with the kids. Heck – you might even make lunch for them and you all have a nice chat playing Ludo with the kids. Then at five OM picks her up and they ride into the sunset waving bye bye.

Coda – feed the former – dispel the later.
Don’t stand in her way regarding moving out if that’s what you want. It will give you an edge in settlement negotiations. Not a significant edge but still… an edge.

Dispel the later. Once you separate then get your children used to time with her and time with you. Your time together as a family… It’s over.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

Another update. I've been really keeping up the pressure these last couple days. And she has seemed to come out of her withdrawal mode (not wanting to talk). Now she is in full conflict mode, arguing every point i try to make.

I really been pushing for NC, but verifiable. She can't seem to agree to the verifiable part. So until I get that (if ever), I am moving forward with the divorce.

And I'm giving her info like, how much money we spend a month as a family to maintain our current lifestyle. She knows how much she makes and how much I make. No way she can maintain her lifestyle after D.

She started complaining about why I had to tell the OMW. Now the wife knows who she is, and she's a wanted woman. I reminded her that she is an adult, she knew the risks of an affair, and now she has to face the consequences.

I don't think she will actually leave the house. It was probably a bluff. She can't afford it, at least not for any length of time.

I get the feeling she has very resentful feelings towards me, since I ruined her happy fantasy.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, October 26th (Saturday)

All the signs of success...
You are getting the message across to her that the affair isn’t sustainable. Every now and then she sees that her plans for moving out and her future just don’t pan out.

Do not badger her with info or talk of R. Basically by now she should have gotten the message: You are willing to R if she meets some basic demands. You don’t need to remind her daily.
The arguments? Well she needs them. She needs reasons to justify her behaviors. I warned you about them way back on page 2 of this thread:

The WW wants a reason to leave you so the WW starts arguments (that you don’t respond to). These arguments are aimed at justifying her view on the marriage.

DO NOT PARTICIPATE!! If she makes some comment you answer should be in the vein of “I’m sorry you feel that way. It’s something we could address if we had a future together but I really don’t see a point in going into this now”

Coda – I’m not going to give you any false hope on reconciliation. What I can tell you is that I think that way back when you started posting your marriage had no chance of recovery. Now you seem to be on a clear path and that path just MIGHT give you the possibility for YOU to decide whether to R or D.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, October 27th (Sunday)

Bigger is right Coda.

All you can do is kill the Affair.

Arguing with your wife about her fantasy is pointless.

Focus on you. Focus on your kids.

Leave your wife out in the "cold".

Sooner or later she will be forced to look in the mirror.

Time is really on your side. The Divorce papers will help you measure that time.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

My attorney emailed me to say the divorce complaint has officially been filed. So my wife should get served any day now.

I still prefer to R if she wants to and will agree to my conditions, in particular verifiable NC. If not, I'm going through with the divorce. She is still in a fog though. I don't know if even getting served will get through that.

Thanks again everyone for your comments, advice, and support. It has really helped me through the last several weeks.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

Coda

You made a decision that you can no longer tolerate her infidelity.

Good for you.

Divorce takes months. Maybe your W will come out of the fog, maybe not.

After she gets served sit her down and discuss the splitting of assets and finances.

A lifestyle change is in order for her.....

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
Bigger
Member
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Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)

Coda,

Expect her to respond angrily once summoned. Expect her to tell or indicate she was leaning towards R but the summons makes her want out.
When she does this then tell her; sorry you feel that way. This isn’t what I want but while you aren’t willing to commit to the reasonable minimum requirements I have requested then you are still in infidelity. I am determined to get out of infidelity – with or without you.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, October 31st (Thursday)

I'm not sure what her reaction will be once she is served. I wouldn't be suprised at no reaction at all.

She did write me a very long letter yesterday. In summary, she said she doesn't know what to do. She doesn't like the idea of divorcing me. But she is worried if we can repair the damage from the affair. And she is not sure if her feelings of love will return for me. She said Our marriage wasn't bad, but not happy either. This part is true, because I felt the same. She said she is not only considering her own feelings, and that she is also thinking about our children and our family.
But as of now, she cannot decide what is the best thing to do.

What she didn't really address in her letter was much about the affair besides the fact that she does feel bad about it and that I will hold this against her going forward. She didn't write anything about how she feels about the AP and the current state of the affair.

She did not get served yet. But I do think the letter was a sincere attempt to communicate her feeling of not knowing what to do, and some of the reasons why.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, November 1st (Friday)

Wait 'til she's been served.
Her tune will change.
The reality of what she's done will finally sink in.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 493 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
coda87
Member
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Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, November 4th (Monday)

I found out today from my attorney that my WW was served the divorce complaint on 10/31.
She didn't say anything to me about it. I thought she didn't even get served yet. So as I suspected, no reaction from her.

So again, I have no idea what she is thinking/feeling. It is as if she doesn't care at all. In fact she went golfing with friends today.

I'm not going to say anything about it either. Just wait an see what happens.

[This message edited by coda87 at 6:19 PM, November 4th (Monday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, November 5th (Tuesday)

Keep in mind that your wife does not have the support system you have here on SI, so I think she’s very confused and unsure right now. At the same time she might be totally switched on and is looking for another place and planning her move out. Not really much you can do other than remember Theodor Roosevelt’s phrase to speak softly but carry a big stick.

Since I know your wish is to reconcile my advice will be geared towards that. Right now it’s imperative that you hold your course.
There are numerous things you need to do regarding the divorce procedures; you need financial statements, tax returns, deeds, leases, contracts… Start gathering all this info. It saves attorney fees and keeps you focused. Do this in a non-intrusive way regarding your WW.

Start mentioning things and decisions that have to be done and made in the next weeks. For example; do you two plan on doing Thanksgiving together? Do you plan on being in the same house for Christmas? Don’t be afraid of mentioning these issues; it’s imperative that now she realizes that you are serious in your determination that she selects between being married to you or divorce.
Stop all discussions and decisions that reflect your life together as husband and wife in the near future. If she says she needs to renew her car… tell her that it can’t be done until the divorce is over. If she wants the family to go to Italy next summer… tell her that future plans aren’t really appropriate now.
You can and should still make it clear to her that she does have options: She CAN tell you that the affair is over and that she can be accountable for NC and that will make you slow down and/or delay the divorce process. You don’t need to appear happy with what’s going on but you DO need to seem determined to get out of infidelity.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:17 AM, November 6th (Wednesday)

Still no response from my wife about being served. I did see on our joint credit card that she paid a retainer fee to her attorney. No surprise there.

I agree that she is probably confused. On the one hand I filed for divorce and she was served. But the last week or so, I have not showed any anger, no questioning her, or trying to get her to talk. She went out Wed, Fri, and Mon and came home after 1100pm each time. Seems like she doesn't want to confront what is happening. I didn't question her about her whereabouts. I've actually been very nice and polite. I even washed her car on the weekend. Took the kids and her to a nice restaurant on Saturday night. And I've been more normal, somewhat cheerful (ie not acting depressed, distribured, needy). I can tell by looking at her she is thinking what is going on?Her tell is to play with her fingernails, which she has been doing a lot of the last few days.

I also met with AP's wife today. She says that her WH is also confused about what to do now. At first he was angry and wanted to D, but now he has calmed down. She has been doing a consistent 180 with him, unlike me. Initially he said he was going to move out, now he doesn't want to because of his kids (8 & 12 yrs old). I told her my hunch is once she files for divorce, her WH will panic once he realizes he is going to lose his family and half of his assets. His main goal in life per his wife, is to make money. We both are reasonably sure the affair is ongoing, but at a much more subdued level. But she told me her husband is not the type to express his intentions and since he is not sure what to do, he probably has not promised my wife anything. So it must be a hard decision for my wife not knowing what could happen with the her future with the AP. And knowing that I intend divorce her, and that process has just started.

Anyway, I'll feel like I am getting stronger. I still prefer to R. But if D is our fate, so be it. It just seems somewhat tragic, since I know that for my part at least, I see our marriage as still having a chance.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, November 8th (Friday)

So what do you think she was doing out those three nights? Is this a pattern that was in place pre-affair? If not then I really can’t agree with you that the affair is more subdued. It’s a question where they hang out – what they do these evenings. No – I’m not thinking sordid motel-rooms but more the practical issue of what they are doing as in are they planning a future together.
You are correct in not questioning her about her whereabouts. She knows the conditions for R, she knows what she needs to do if she wants the marriage. Don’t forget that often you can say things without words and she is sending you a message in her actions.

How did you pay your attorney? Did you also use joint assets? Read up on divorce in Hawaii to learn how debts incurred in the marriage are dealt with. In this aspect you need to be realistic: I know you are “friends” and that you hope that if this really is the end then it be as amicable as possible BUT divorce and money tend to bring out the worst in people. So being clear ahead of time how you two will pay the (initial) fees for the attorney is only sensible and in no way antagonistic. In fact it can be argued that this might be key to ensuring the process is amicable. Just be careful to be fair.

I think you should also start actions that make the affair and the consequences reality. Yep – it’s back to exposure time. You can start by pressing on your wife on the following issues:
When to tell the children (I am a firm believer in all stakeholders in the family being told the truth in an age appropriate way).
What arrangements for Thanksgiving and Christmas (Will you spend it together as a family or should you start considering formal separation before these days).


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, November 8th (Friday)

In reading all your posts it amazes me that a mother with three young children, marriage problems or no marriage problems, has all this play time to run out past 11pm all these nights and spend 6 hours golfing. Not trying to insult you, but you must be the best Mr. Mom I've ever seen because obviously you are one taking care of your children most nights. Reminds me of my situation with my wife business traveling so much.

If I were you I would seriously be documenting all this for your attorney for when parenting plans and decisions are to be made regarding them. I'm sorry to say this but rarely does a women who has an affair, goes out many nights a week AND has already paid an attorney a retainer hasn't already begun making plans. She's very selfish not only with her marriage but also with her own children and what she has done to the other man's spouse. I know you still love her, but this woman is immature and toxic. And frankly I'm sitting her debating if she is even a good mother at this time.

[This message edited by SeanFLA at 11:46 AM, November 8th (Friday)]


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1472 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, November 8th (Friday)

Some nights she goes out, its for legitimate meetings with clients. But I would think she would be home sooner than 11pm. She probably meets the clients then meets the AP after. Before the affair I didn't like her going out, but I figured it was for work. Now I always suspect she is meeting the AP.

In Hawaii any debts or assets are joint in the case of divorce. So we both used our joint credit card to pay the retainer fee.
My attorney recommended, and I have followed his advice to keep a log of when she goes out. Just in case we need it for custody reasons, if we end up fighting about that in court. He also is going to file something called a pre-decree motion financial restraining order which basically says that neither of us can spend money wastefully, try to hide assets, dispose of assets, rack up debt etc. except for normal living expenses or with approval from the other party. And we have to provide timely financial disclosure, which would me she has to show me her bank acct records. (She has her own bank account for business). She can already access our joint bank account and other financial records online. I already turned in an asset/debt stmt and income expense stmt to my attorney which was filed with the court. I've done as much as I can to prepare for the divorce.

She still has not talked to me about it. Time is ticking away. I'm trying to wait patiently. Soon I will bring up the issue of letting the kids know. We definitely need to do this before he mandatory counseling both we and the kids are required to attend (scheduled for 12/18).


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:37 AM, November 9th (Saturday)

You might read the profile and posts of hopeandchange. Sounds like your up and coming future. Wife doesn't love you, doesn't respect you, is done with the marriage and wants out.

It's not realistic to hold onto dreams of reconciliation when your WW has shown no desire to participate. Just press on with the divorce and continue to post on SI. Great bunch of people with common experiences who will offer much needed support. Steel yourself to be hard-nosed with the terms of the settlement; now is not the time to be generous with a woman who has shown you absolutely no respect.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 6:41 AM, November 9th (Saturday)

Coda

I like Biggers idea of speaking to your wife about plans for Thanksgiving and Xmas.

And yes if your date of counseling is 12/18 you both need to address your kids about the Divorce very soon.

Your wife is a coward Coda. Her not addressing the D with you is a sign of that.

She is going to leave you with the kids IMO.

Do not make it easy for her.

If it was me and my wife was running out the door for a few evenings in a week I would text her and say sorry honey but I have a meeting tonight. Get your butt home and watch the kids tonight.

But at least document her actions.

And while you both agree that your marriage had issues and you both weren't happy.

Her choice to have an affair did not help the marriage, help you or bring anyone more happiness.

She is a fool.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, November 10th (Sunday)

No verbal reaction from WW about getting served, but I think I she is giving me a rebellious reaction. She went out Friday night, supposedly with a client, came home about 12am. Saturday night says she has to go to a going away party for a friend and will be back at 730pm. She comes home at 1030pm. Today she goes to lunch with a client at 1130am, open house from2-5pm. I say lets go out to dinner with the kids after. Ok she says. Then she texts me she can't make dinner, she is going drinking with coworkers. APs wife went camping today and tomorrow with her kids. So AP is home alone. I text her back saying it doesn't matter to me but I feel sorry for our kids since they barely have seen their mother the last three days. And that she should think about them.

I'm getting pretty fed up. But not showing her my anger.
This really is a crappy situation.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, November 11th (Monday)

Document all of this and make sure you save those texts. She is beyond selfish and is sacrificing your children's needs to fulfill her own. I'd put my foot down and the next "meeting" she has tell her "Sorry, I already made plans for that time you'll need to reschedule".


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 270 | Registered: Mar 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, November 11th (Monday)

Your wife is simply saying that you have filed for divorce now she feels free to live the single life with the OM. I suspect she sees divorce as liberating her to chase after him and maybe set up house with him sometime in the future.

Remember, you didn't file in an attempt to shock your STBXWW into reconciling; her loyalties and emotional commitment lie with OM not you and thats not going to change anytime soon.

This is a real tough time; your wife thinks she is calling your bluff and so she steps up the affair a few notches. All you can do is press on and get her out of your life as soon as possible. Your WW may be using your filing for divorce as an instrument of pressure to get OM to commit; nothing you can do about that, but I suspect the karma bus will eventually pay this selfish woman a visit. There will be retribution for her putting her fantasy needs first and you and the children last.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
HollyLou
New Member
Member # 41248
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, November 11th (Monday)

Coda- I'm new here and have been reading your saga. I'm so very sorry. Through your posts, I've seen you go through the 5 stages of grief over the loss of your marriage, and it seems that you have reached the acceptance phase.

Your STBXWW is truly a piece of work and really doesn't deserve you.

I want to say that I do admire how you've acted during this- this is fantastic modeling for your children as they grow. One thing I'm trying very hard is that I want to act as I would want THEM to react in a similar situation. If I had to give my daughters advice if presented this situation, what would I say/do?

By moving on and not accepting her BS, you are truly a wonderful parent- you are modeling healthy mature behavior and showing that you deserve and demand respect. Your WW will always be their mom, but they will also see what a strong dad/man is. Continued good luck to you!


BW, 45
WH, 48
D-Day 10/30/13
M: 17 yrs
2 DDs 15, 13
Status: ??

Posts: 21 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: MA
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, November 11th (Monday)

Document, document, document.

BTDT. I won custody largely because when I was going through my divorce, my XW chose to go out on "dates" throughout the process. Her reasoning was that we were divorcing now, why couldn't she "date"?

Well, as I proved in court(had a PI follow her), when she had an opportunity to be with the kids, she chose time with the OM. I on the other hand, took every opportunity to be with them and spend quality time. As I argued in court, the fact that she had an affair and was continuing(Live in a no fault state) to was of no importance, her not spending time with the children as they dealt with the emotional turmoil showed that they would have a safer environment with me. I met their emotional needs and made them a priority.

A phrase you will become intimately familiar with is "In the best interests of the children". It usually is regardless of what state you live in. How is she demonstrating that? Take every chance you get to be with them. 180 the B&^%$ to the max and work on yourself. Make her a non-entity in your mind and document the hell out of her actions. Make the kids YOUR priority.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3163 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, November 11th (Monday)

Coda,

I‘m going to tackle this from a couple of angles:

Do you have any ideas about your WW plans for custody?
I for one don’t believe in making divorce harder than it has to be and I think that using the children as bargaining tools is… well… tasteless. No matter how this goes then we should all hope that 3 years from now your kids have a healthy relationship with both parents. So I for one am not going to suggest you seek sole custody, no- or limited visitation and so on. But you might want prime custody. IF this ends in D then 6 months from now you want your kids to be adjusting to a consistent, caring schedule with access to both of you.
I second the document idea no matter how amicable and friendly you are now. Even the most amicable of divorces tend to get nasty. On this issue it’s better to err to the side of caution. It’s a LOT better to be in a position of power and being able to negotiate final custody to the kids and your benefit, rather than having to accept whatever morsels she might offer.
In all this it’s imperative to be fair (well… seem fair), document and make accountable. So for example if you two discuss something you feel important then follow it up with an e-mail covering the issues. Gives you confirmation of what was discussed, when and how.

I said in one of my first posts you shouldn’t enable the affair. So don’t be so readily available to be at home. Consider telling her you are going out (and DO IT) or telling her that you two will take alternative weeks as the prime caretaker. No need to be petty; after all if she is hell-bent on divorce then dating OM might be in bad taste but within what she can do if she has no intention of R. But next Friday evening – YOU have plans. YOU be away.

Do NOT ask her to join you for dinner with the kids. That is the past. Your life as a happy family… is over. That is unless she asks for it back and you are ready to offer it back.

Please consider doing the Thanksgiving and Christmas talk sooner than later. I have to say that the date for the kids hearing (18 Dec) is awfully close to the family holiday. I would IMMEDIATELY address the issue with your wife that the sooner the children are told the better it would be. Consider suggesting you two talk to your MC about how to break the news.

EXPOSE EXPOSE EXPOSE. Tell your parents, her parents, your siblings, her siblings, her boss, his boss… (BTW – what IS their work relationship? Is he her superior?)
Coda; I have always given you hope for reconciliation.
There still is some but frankly it diminishes by the day. IMHO your best chance of R is still by standing firm on your basic requirements and forcing the affair into reality with all you’re might. WHEN your wife sees you are serious, WHEN your wife has to talk to the kids, WHEN she sees that the finances of the family goes haywire, WHEN she starts feeling pressure from siblings, parents, co-workers… WHEN OM refuses to commit to her, WHEN she has to be a single mom every other week… That’s when her shell will crumble.
But also know that maybe at that time it will be YOU that feels empowered enough to be content with divorce.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, November 11th (Monday)

I've been documenting everything I can. As far as custody, what we have discussed so far is joint custody. I do believe that she agrees that would be best for the kids. But even my lawyer warned me that some women change their mind once they see how much child support they would be entitled to with full custody. It was his recommendation that I document everything and spend more time with the kids.

I will consider going out more. I'm just worried that she will use that against me if we get into a custody battle. So I have limited my time spent away from home and my children.

I have feeling she wants to see what the divorce settle will look like. Before making any final decision for her self. I just want to make sure I don't get screwed financially if we end up fighting in court. I have no intention in trying to get nasty about it. But I can't control what she does.

Also, I'm reasonably when she goes out, not everytime is to see the AP. It's easy to assume that, even for me because I don't trust her anymore. But I know Saturday, she did not see the AP (confirmed with AP's wife). Last week Monday, really did go golfing with her girlfriends. Some of it is legitimate work related networking.

I just hope I have not rushed things by filing for D. I still prefer to R if there is any chance. But I can't stand waiting if the Affair is still ongoing at any level. So until I get transparency from her about the affair, I'm not going to back down on the D.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
WIgirl
New Member
Member # 40533
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)

I'm very sorry you're going through this. Your story is so similar to my own...it makes me sad to know another person is going through it.


Me: 38 yo BW
Him: 40 yo WH
2 daughters (8, 5); married 15 yrs
DD: 6/2/13 (5 mo EA/PA with coworker)
Separated/Divorcing

Posts: 49 | Registered: Sep 2013
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, November 13th (Wednesday)

I sent my wife a message today saying that we need to discuss the divorce with our children, the sooner the better because I want them to be ready for the mandatory court counseling on Dec 18.

I also told her we should start negotiating about custody, money & property division. And that the more we can agree together without going back and forth through our attorneys, the less expensive it will be. I reminded her that of course we can have our respective attorney's review our agreement to make sure it is fair for each party.

Thanksgiving plans are already set, my father is coming to visit from out of town that week. I'll need to discuss Christmas with her. I guess I'll ask if she is still planning on moving out. If she is, then we need to figure out how to share the kids.

I have a question for anyone who has been in my situation and ended up divorcing. Did you really feel relief after the divorce? Or did you feel the sadness, loss, regret the same as when you found out about the A. I am so unsure if I am doing the right thing. I keep telling myself that I can't let me self be treated this way (my wife's cake eating). So my boundary is for her is verifiable NC with AP. The consequence is my moving forward (divorce). Some people are telling me I didn't wait long enough before filing.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, November 13th (Wednesday)

Some people are telling me I didn't wait long enough before filing.

Are these people aware of the ongoing affair?
Are these people aware of the comments your wife has made about your relationship not fulfilling her?
Have these people offered a realistic alternative?

Look Coda – YOU have to feel OK with your decisions. Nobody here is entitled to judge you if you withdraw from the divorce or ask your attorney to slow things down. It’s totally your call and you need to feel comfortable with it. You could sit down with your wife and ask her if she’s happy with the divorce. If she says no then ask her how she thinks the marriage can work out while she’s in the affair. Maybe logic might work…

There are people that advocate allowing the affair to run its course. Statistically the chances are your WW and OM would have had a good run of 6-8 months and then THIS affair burned out. But that isn’t dealing with the underlying issue: WHY does your WW feel entitled to have an affair? If I refer back to statistics then IF this affair had been allowed to run its course then the stats say your WW would have another affair within 3-5 years. Sound like something to look forwards to? Sound like something you could accept? [This IS a serious question: Very many people live knowing their spouse is unfaithful and seem… OK with it… It’s not something I could do but then…]

Your wife has the power to end the affair. She chooses not to. To me that’s a sad but very clear message. Your regret… It sounds like you are looking at your burning house wishing the fire had never started. But it has. The flames are reality – your wishes just wishes.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, November 13th (Wednesday)

Just caught up on your thread, Coda. I am so very sorry for the relentless, remorseless emotional abuse your wife has put you through. I am around a year ahead of you, and much of your story mirrors mine. I won't go into detail. Suffice to say I tried everything to save my family, but it all came down to this:

Your wife has the power to end the affair. She chooses not to.

And ultimately... That was that. It took all my will, all my strength, from the bottom of my wrecked soul to file for divorce from the love of my life. I offered her the gift of reconciliation. She did not want it.

Now I am divorcing, and it is a nightmare. The demons that drove her to her affair now have taken over her being. Masks are off, and I see who she is. I also wonder if at the end of the divorce I will feel relief and have asked of the forum if I can expect this. While it is likely more complex a range of emotions, the collective response has been "Yes."

And I do believe it. Hang in there, Coda and continue to listen to these wise people. If I can survive, you can too. It gets better. Slowly, unbearably slowly. But it does.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1677 | Registered: Dec 2012
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, November 13th (Wednesday)

Coda

It is clear you are torn.

But why should you wait for a woman that is not willing to wait for you.

Detach.

And spend everyday of your life as a reminder to her about where the greener grass grows.

You deserve better.

Go find it.

HM

[This message edited by happyman64 at 7:48 PM, November 13th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, November 15th (Friday)

My wife responded to me about telling our kids. Said she we should talk to counselor to see what is the best way. Fine, I agree with that.

But I asked her how she feels about me filing for divorce. She said she has anxiety/uncertainty about the divorce. I told her I believe the affair is still going on because her behavior (going out almost every night, still keeping the 2nd cell phone and 2nd laptop). She keeps denying that the affair is continuing.
I asked her to show me the second cell phone records to prove she hasnt called or texted him. Or just tell me that the affair is going on. She refused both requests and said let's just divorce.
It's the first time she actually said it to me.
I said okay, then I will ask my lawyer to request the cell phone records to prove that on the nights she went out, she had phone/text contact with him (to meet up) and I may even ask for more than joint custody for the kids. She panicked a little coming up with weak excuses like, its a waste of money, i'm just doing that to prove a point/satisfy my ego, the money could be used for the kids. So I know she is hiding something. Then we got into a long argument, mostly her blaming me for everything and me trying to defend myself. I shouldn't have argued, I know.
I'm not backing down and will continue the divorce process.

The only reason I can think she doesn't want me to know the affair is ongoing is that she wants it to look like we divorced not because of the A, but because of our bad marriage. I told her clearly that I filed divorce because of the affair. The marital problems I was willing to try and resolve if she wanted to.

Tonight she goes and talks to a lady friend who divorced. I hope she talks some sense to my wife. I don't think she talked to anyone besides the AP and the marriage counselor.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, November 15th (Friday)

Sounds as if you are encountering the very opposite of remorse; an arrogant, proud WW who isn't going to back down or give an inch.
Don't know what you can do when she won't get off that pedestal and show some humility and beg for reconciliation. I don't think your wife would beg or even ask for another chance, do you?

So if the OM throws her under the bus and chooses his marriage instead of life with a fellow cheater, burdened with three children, she isn't going to sacrifice an iota of pride by exploding in tears and groveling for forgiveness. She will allow the marriage to die and see how things go afterwards. After all from her perspective its all your fault anyway and the affair [which is still ongoing] comes under the heading of entitlement, considering the 'misery' you put her through.

All you can do is press on with the divorce; its the only course left open to you if you don't want to co-exist with her adultery.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
mandan66
Member
Member # 40075
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, November 15th (Friday)

Bro--
Your story is verrry close to mine, and I'll tell you the best advice I ever got. It came from my IC, and he told me it was probably time for me to 'get rid on my wishbone, and get some backbone'. Your WW, even if she comes to her 'senses', and comes begging back, is broken. Any advice she gets from a friend won't change that. And besides that, what kind of story do you think she tells her friends, anyhow? You can be damn sure it deviates from the truth, IMO.
It sucks dude, believe me, I know. It sucks for you and the kids, but its just how it is. You've taken care of your side of the street, and thats all that matters, all that you can control. Stay the course brother!


Me: 47; WW: 48
2 DS: 9, 14
M:18--T:19
DDay: Jan/13
Divorced and Done!--7/13

Posts: 121 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: KS
LifeIsBroken
Member
Member # 27071
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, November 15th (Friday)

Coda: Your question, "I have a question for anyone who has been in my situation and ended up divorcing. Did you really feel relief after the divorce? Or did you feel the sadness, loss, regret the same as when you found out about the A."

After my divorce I felt relief. I also felt sadness, loss, and regret. I was relieved I no longer had to endure his A and all that went with it. I was sad that our 35 yrs of M was less important to him than his AP. The loss of the man I had loved for 35 yrs was heartbreaking. Regrets? I have no regrets as I did not break our M or our family. He did that. Does HE have regrets? I don't think he would admit it to himself or anyone else if he did. That kind of admission would indicate he realized he had made a mistake. He sure isn't going to admit that.

You say you're unsure if you're doing the right thing by filing. Understandable... for many of us, D is the last thing we ever want. However, the flip side: Why on earth would you want to continue a M with a WS who cares so little for you, who cares so little for her children, but cares first and foremost for an AP whom she hardly knows ? Is this the kind of woman you want to be married with ? Why would anyone want that ?

I wonder, the people who are saying you didn't wait long enough prior to filing: how many of them have been betrayed by the one person on earth whom they loved and trusted the most ? Unless they've lived it, they really have no idea what they're talking about. I certainly didn't.... until I lived it.


BW: 59
XH: 60
Married 34 yrs, LIBerated: 2/17/11
MOW: 50 (she said she wanted a sugar daddy; xh said, "I'M HIM!")
Actions ALWAYS have consequences. Too bad cheaters don't consider the consequences BEFORE they create so much damage.

Posts: 526 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Missouri & Massachusetts
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, November 16th (Saturday)

Coda

So your wife is still lying and ok with the divorce.

So give her what she wants.

A divorce.

Separate yourself from her infidelity.

Do yourself a favor.

Let everyone know why you are divorcing. Expose the Affair to her family and the OM's family.

Your wife needs to feel consequences Coda.

And why not ask for more custody. You are already the childrens primary parent.

Stay the course. No arguments with her.

give her what she wants.

There are better woman out there Coda.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, November 17th (Sunday)

coda,

I read your whole thread and I'm so pissed off for you and your kids. They are about the same ages as my three. They need an honest, compassionate, supportive mother not a lying, selfish Vulcan. Your wife must be truly messed up to throw away her integrity and her intact family for Mr. Sleazy Adulterer.

I would continue to give your kids as much of your time and attention as possible. They need to know that they have one dependable, giving parent who puts them first.

My fWH is a child of divorce. His mother was cheating with a MM and she left. His father didn't want the kids either. They got the message that they were worthless, and my H did not deal with it in a healthy was until after d-day.

Your kids are going to need you to be their rock. I'm sure they already sense the tension, fear and anger in your home. The more you can show them that you love being with them and that you can handle whatever emotions they throw at you, the better.

I would also tell your kids the truth in an age appropriate way. They need to know that they can count on their dad to be honest because their mom is unreliable and even lying to herself.

I think you should be proud of how you have handled all this so far. The fact that you keep reaching out for advice shows how healthy you are, and the fact that you filed for D shows your self-worth. How could you stay married to a woman who shows no respect for you, your marriage or herself?


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Not much of an update. My wife didn't go out the last three days. But I think because I made her realize it's not good for our kids for her to be out so much, and it looks bad for her if custody becomes an issue.

Things have calmed down at home. I noticed that she is telling me where she will go if she leaves the house. I went out on Saturday night with friends and I met the APs wife to talk. She is telling me her WH is really trying to delay the their divorce, giving all kinds of excuses for the reasons why. He asked her why she is such a rush.

My wife didn't make the appointment with the MC to discuss how to tell the kids we are getting D. She has not brought up anything about the marriage/divorce since our last argument on Thur. I'm not going to bring it up either.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, November 18th (Monday)

She has not brought up anything about the marriage/divorce since our last argument on Thur. I''m not going to bring it up either.
I agree with not bringing it up with her but I cannot recommend strongly enough that you get your ducks in a row legally speaking. You need to protect yourself, especially your rights as a father imho.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4082 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, November 18th (Monday)

She is telling me her WH is really trying to delay the their divorce, giving all kinds of excuses for the reasons why. He asked her why she is such a rush

This is really, really offensive. He [and presumably your WW], is in effect saying " why don't you continue to exist in this limbo where I can cake-eat with my lover while you live in this marriage hell. Why do you need to be in such a hurry to escape and start anew?"

They have to be from another planet. Such selfish obsession with their own needs and no consideration for the spouse they pledged marriage vows with.

The OM and your wife seems to be cooling it a little right now. It may have suddenly occurred to them what they are about to lose. They must be really annoyed at you and the AP's wife for tarnishing their romantic fantasy. They had their passionate affair and their convenient marriage and now they have to give up one of them. Maybe thats where your wife's recent anger is really coming from.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, November 18th (Monday)

I think i got it all covered. Moved all the important financial docs to my office. I'm keeping a record of all the times she goes out (in case of custody issues). I've done everything my lawyer recommended, spend more time with the kids, get in touch with their school counselors, etc.

If we do end up in D, I'm not looking to screw her financially. I just hope she doesnt try to either.
I just want what is fair.

I know my wife was upset about me telling his wife. She even wrote about it in a letter to me saying now she is a "wanted woman" and the AP's wife and kids know who she is now.

[This message edited by coda87 at 4:47 PM, November 18th (Monday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)

Coda – I think you are on the right track. Sounds as if you are emotionally ready for what lies ahead and have the rationale to realize that although you don’t want to be in the situation you are in then you know that only you can get yourself out of it.

I still see hope for reconciliation. If I didn’t then my sole advice to you would be to keep calm, focus on the big picture and make this divorce as amicable as possible given the circumstances. Early on I suggested doing three things: Make the affair hard, make the marriage attractive and make leaving the marriage hard. I suggest you focus on all three. It sounds like she has no clue how hard divorce will be for her and the family.

For example her comment about not enjoying the exposure…

I know my wife was upset about me telling his wife. She even wrote about it in a letter to me saying now she is a "wanted woman" and the AP's wife and kids know who she is now.

I question why she feels bad about the OMW and kids knowing who she is. It’s as she doesn’t realize that her actions have consequences. She’s afraid of how a third party will perceive her without really seeming concerned about how those closest to her will perceive her. I think it’s a valid idea to ask her how she thinks her parents, siblings, in-laws, children etc. will see her when the marriage ends in divorce because of her insistence to remain in infidelity. And YES – you should not be quiet about the true reasons for where you are headed.

You have already been advised to be honest with all stakeholders in the marriage. In your shoes (I think) I would insist on the children being told in an age-appropriate way why their family is being split up. This is something you should talk about with the MC, but I feel strongly that they deserve the truth in a non-judgmental and non-confrontational way. It’s not that you expect them to take sides (in fact you discourage that) but it’s HER job to make amends and improve the relationship with the kids and others.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)

We talked again last night, although I ended up getting angry again.

Anyway, I made it very clear that the only reason I filed for divorce is because of the affair. I asked her what are her reasons for agreeing to divorce me? She really couldn't give a straight answer for awhile, except the usual comfortable but boring/unhappy marriage. Then finally she admitted that she still has feelings for the AP. And that her romantic feelings for me are pretty much gone, except that she thinks I'm a good father. I said okay, I can understand that. But the reason I was angry and frustrated these past 3 months was because I knew the affair was still ongoing, but she kept lying about it.

Also she keeps shifting blame to me.
- I didn't make the marriage happy, so she had the affair
- I over-reacted, got angry, blamed her too much, so she doesn't love me anymore, and doesn't think the marriage can be repaired

I made spreadsheets for each of us showing that there is not enough money between us to maintain two households with the same lifestyle. We definitely have to sell our nice house. And downgrade our life style.

I reminded her how unfair this is. She didn't communicate her unhappiness effectively to me prior to the affair. Now I lose her, the marriage is really broken, we each lose half the time with our kids/wont see them every day.

I reminded her that it will not workout with the AP. I will not allow her to raise my children in his presence if they end up together as a couple. And I said how will the children feel, having to see the AP, know that this was why we divorced. The OMW feels the same way. My WW and the AP will always be reminded that they broke up two families with young children. And they both cheated on their spouses.

I said if our friends and family ask, I will tell them the truth. I said I will write her mother a letter explaining what happened. Her response was that I just want people to feel sorry for me. I said no, I want people to know the truth.

I emailed the MC to make and appt to discuss how to tell the children. I will tell the MC, that I want our kids to know why we divorced.

My WW has no desire to R. She is so focused on blaming me and repulsed by my anger/frustration.
I'm pretty much committed to D now. I see no hope. I'm at the point where I am okay with D. I'm trying to look forward to a new life without her. And even being single again for a while.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)

I will not allow her to raise my children in his presence if they end up together as a couple.

Gently...
It’s not really your call… Once divorced you two might have guidelines to how and when you introduce your children to people you date. But life does go on and IF your WW and OM end up as a couple then in brutal honesty you should hope he turns out to be the best step-dad in town.
But we are getting way ahead of ourselves now.

Coda – keep the anger under a manageable level. I know it’s hard but always think end-goal. Definitely let her know that you will be honest with all stakeholders but don’t use the kids or her mom as a threat. It’s a fact, a statement – not a theat.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)

Her feelings for you are gone because she is emotionally involved with the AP. Now give it a few months and one of two things can happen.
1] She moves in with the OM and their relationship prospers [rather unlikely]. Then she is truly gone.
2] The affair founders [very likely] and her feelings for the OM gradually fade and she emerges from the fog. Remember this guy is going to be reluctant to raise three children from another man - too much stress; it seldom works out.

At that time she wakes up from this romantic delusion and sees the mistakes she has made. Its likely that she is then open for discussion about reconciliation after the divorce, as long as the relationship between you has not turned poisonous. You can then make whatever decision you feel appropriate.

All you need to do to put yourself in the role of ultimate decision maker is STOP PICKING ARGUMENTS!!. Thats how you poison your relationship. Be nice, courteous, friendly, non-hostile while the divorce creeps nearer and finally arrives. By then the two of you should be getting along quite nicely. Wish her all the best as she rides off into the sunset with OM and wait.

If she wants to reconcile after the likely end of the affair then you get to decide. Yes; or get lost loser girl.
The key is stopping counter-productive hostility which achieves nothing positive and creates a coldness/rejection in your wife. If you want your wife to feel some warmth towards you then everything you are doing is guaranteed to produce the very opposite.

To summarize; be nice and let the marriage end with good feelings on both sides. Then is she wishes to reconcile in the future you get to call the shots.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)

I realize legally, I probably can't prevent my wife from living with the AP and my kids being around. But morally, I hope she understands.

Anger, it's my downfall. Sometimes I wonder, if I would have been able to keep my cool since finding out out about the affair, would things be different? Would my wife still want to divorce me?
I regret not being able to control it. I am usually very easygoing. But this has got to be the worst time in my life. And to have your spouse be the one to cause the pain, and not have any empathy, and blame it on you, it's almost impossible not to feel anger. The MC said anger is a surface emotion for hurt.

[This message edited by coda87 at 5:29 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)

I plan to be nice and not be nasty during the divorce. We actually talked about some of the details regarding the kids,money, and assets.

For some reason, I feel relief that my WW admitted that she still is attached to the AP. I think the fact that she tried to keep it hidden from me (even though I knew it was still ongoing) was worst than her just telling me the truth. I'm still very sad about it. But strangely relieved


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)

Its not that your wife has zero feelings for you, its that they are masked by her intense romantic infatuation for the OM. Its likely she will end up in an apartment as a mistress with occasional sex visits by him, until she gets disillusioned by the situation and the affair peters out.

What a tragic waste of a marriage, all for a silly fantasy. I can understand your relief at finding out about your WW's continued feelings for OM; just detach and refuse to discuss your true feelings and opinions. You really have done your best; divorce does seem inevitable.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 12:08 AM, November 20th (Wednesday)

Yep, tragic because it didn't have to be this way. I told her I would have done anything for her if she would have just asked. And that it's not fair that I lose her, our marriage, and I won't be able to see my kids everyday like I do now, for something that she decided to do , have the affair. It really is a waste. But hey, for some reason I feel way better. I know the truth. I see my way out of this hell, although I prefered that me and my WW would leave it together. But I know I'll be alright. I made mistakes (letting my anger out too much). But I put in my best effort, not knowing anything about how to handle an affair when I first found out. Thank you all for your advice and support. I will keep posting updates so you all see how this ends. Aloha!


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)

OK Now is right on the money.
Coda – anger is OK. Anger shows passion. It shows you care. So don’t feel bad about showing anger. Just don’t let anger CONTROL you. Big difference.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 5:35 AM, November 23rd (Saturday)

Interesting update. Even though my WW says she still has feelings with OM, she keeps denying that she has contact with him. Every Friday she goes out. I suspect to meet the OM. So last night I pack my bags and say I'm gonna stay with a friend a couple of days. The first thing outta her mouth is how that's going to mess up her dinner plans with her client. I say to just reschedule. She is almost in a panic saying I have to come home Friday to watch the kids. I refuse and tell her I know she is going to see OM. More denials from her. Finally she says she will hire a babysitter. I say you are not going out with OM and leave your kids with me or anyone else. 90% of me is certain she is lying but 10% wants to believe her. So I say never mind I'll stay home.

But this morning I put my sons iPhone in her car. And use it to track her location. About 300 she parks at a hotel, the same one they met at before. I call that hotel and ask to be connected to the OMs room. And they put me though but no one answer. I call the OMs wife and she says let's confront them. So I pick her up and we drive to the parking garage and find OM and my WWs cars. We go to the hotel front desk.but they won't give us the room number. So we both call our respective WH And WW and tell them to meet us in the lobby to talk. They come down! OM hardly says anything and his body language is very defensive. I ask my wife why she needed to lie. We are getting divorced anyway so no need to keep a secret. I tell her that lying is why I'm angry. She gives more lame excuses. I ask them what they want to do. She says to be with him. Before we left I told OM what kind of guy tries to take another mans wife especially one with three young kids? And what man leaves his own wife and two kids. He just kept saying I dont know. In tell my WW what kind of bad person has she become. Then we left them. So I confirmed my suspicions. I know what I must do now, bail from this woman asap.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
K Phantom
Member
Member # 14105
Default  Posted: 6:34 AM, November 23rd (Saturday)

Coda87,

She is so selfish and completely blinded by lust...it amazes me that she can do that to her children.

Just a couple of things I want to chime in on.

1 I feel for you brother and I’m so sorry this is happening to you and your family.

2 Liston to everything Bigger tells you he is genius

Man hugs.


Me BS
Her WS
Kids 0
Married 15 yrs 02/14/1993
DD#1 3/29/06
DD#2 6/23/07
D 4/15/2008

Posts: 515 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: USA PA
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, November 23rd (Saturday)

So did the OM have anything to say other than "I don't know?"


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1327 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, November 23rd (Saturday)

Not really, everytime I asked him something. I don't know was his response. He just stood there arms crossed with a smug look on his face. My wife is angry. She is being passive aggressive.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, November 24th (Sunday)

So Coda, now you know. The picture is clearer.

As you might know by now I like similes and analogies.

Remember the one about you having to set off on a train journey? Well – right now the train set off from the platform. You are on board but your wife is still standing on the platform holding that offered second ticket watching as the train pulls away. So just MAYBE there might be a chance for her to catch a later express train and catch up at the next station but that’s not really relevant. What is relevant is that YOU have set off and YOU are going to reach your destination.

Remember the one about the burning house? Well – you have just discovered that the house has major structural damage and that worrying about water damage from the hoses isn’t really an issue. That trying to convince you that leaving those embers glowing in the living room might be OK isn’t really a good idea. That calling the fire brigade wasn’t really overreacting to the situation. That at the end of the day managing to save yourself and your children out of the burning house might be an acceptable conclusion.

Look – My view has ALWAYS been to deal with infidelity with reality. The facts are what they are. There is really no way to avoid that. So if a spouse has an affair it really all boils down to two major issues: What do we want and what does the WS want? If we want D then fine – that’s it. If we want to remain married then it breaks down to what we can accept.

There are numerous people that deal with infidelity by turning a blind eye. Women that know their husbands go to escorts (nicer word for a whore…) or husbands that know their wife has a lover. This can be an open “secret” or simply ignored. If you had been happy with that arrangement then I guess you two would be “married” two years from now. But would you be happy? Could you live with that thought? Heck – chances are affair with THIS OM would be over by then. But stats also say that the chances are immensely high he would simply be replaced.

So think this through Coda; HAD you not demanded action. HAD you not filed. HAD you not decided to get out of infidelity… Could you have been able to turn a blind eye to your wife’s affair? Could you have waited at home on Friday evenings KNOWING she was with OM?
Have a strong feeling your answer will be no.
And if that’s the case… well… then we know what you can accept.

So back to the statement of dealing with infidelity with reality:
We know what you want – to reconcile. We know what you can accept – a wife that is not in an affair. You are not being offered the later so the former becomes irrelevant. You aren’t willing to have a wife that cheats and she’s not willing to be faithful.
That’s just your reality. That’s just the burning house no matter how much you wish it wasn’t burning.

So Coda – press on with the divorce. Get advice ASAP on how to tell the kids. Expose to others as to that you are divorcing and why. Start working actively at clarifying issues relevant to the divorce and the termination of your marriage. Start taking realistic, decisive action.

And you don’t do so in anger. You don’t lecture her about how her actions will cause this or that. It’s more of a “well – since we are not going to remain married it’s only logical we sell the house. After all – I can’t afford it alone. Can you?” rather than a “We have to sell the house because you screw around”. Might be the same cause but a different message though.


Right now IMHO the ABSOLUTE worst outcome from the reality as it is now is that you replace the relationship you had with WW (marriage) with another major relationship with her. We see it all the time here on SI where the divorce becomes the new marriage. Divorce is NOT about an alternative relationship per se. It’s not about how to live with WW in in-house separation indeterminately, it’s not about how her actions control your actions. It’s NOT about seeing each and every one of her actions as evil. Divorce is the process of MINIMIZING interaction between two people. Since you have kids it’s the process of becoming the best co-parents you can but other than that… you don’t want any form of relationship. Like you yourself told your wife; there isn’t any need to lie because you are getting a divorce. So you no longer argue about whose fault this or lecture her on how her actions are causing this – you simply focus on the practical things that need to be done.

Just keep that in mind because you will get a lot of posts now about what a b@tch she is, how stupid and what she’s sacrificing. They are all well intended, possibly all true and might offer you some moral support but still… it’s all irrelevant. Right now your WW is wrecking her marriage and that’s the simple fact. Hopefully sooner than later she at least manages to salvage her role as your children’s mother.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, November 24th (Sunday)

Today, my WW is in a better mood. She seems to have calmed down. Even apologized for lying to me. I said let just try to get through the divorce process and quickly and smoothly as possible. We have and appointment with MC on 12/2 to get advice on how to break the news to the kids. I'm going to look at several open houses today for places that I might want to live after the divorce.

I feel very depressed though. I really do not want this. I feel like eventually the A with die a natural death, like I've heard most affairs do. Should I wait and see? Should I ask my WW again to give our marriage another chance? I feel desperate enough to ask. But I know I probably should not. I will try not to.

Seems so hopeless, but is there anything left I can do to try and salvage our marriage? Or do I just keep moving forward with the D and see what happens. Has anyone been this far down the road to D, but still able to R?


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Snowy
Member
Member # 14028
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, November 24th (Sunday)

Hi Coda87

I have been reading your posts for the last couple of weeks. I am sorry you are in this place.

What I believe you are feeling right now is morning the death of your marriage. This is a normal response.

But just remember, for a marriage to live and breath, it takes 2 people to work at it. The actions of your WS shows that she does not want to put in the work to make. So ask yourself what is the reality.


Posts: 161 | Registered: Mar 2007
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, November 24th (Sunday)

Sorry you are here brother. To directly answer
I feel like eventually the A with die a natural death, like I've heard most affairs do. Should I wait and see? Should I ask my WW again to give our marriage another chance?

I defer to Bigger.
This can be an open “secret” or simply ignored. If you had been happy with that arrangement then I guess you two would be “married” two years from now. But would you be happy? Could you live with that thought? Heck – chances are affair with THIS OM would be over by then. But stats also say that the chances are immensely high he would simply be replaced.

If I may ask a blunt question in response to

Seems so hopeless, but is there anything left I can do to try and salvage our marriage?

Why? You've seen the mask removed. She is totally unwilling to put you or the marriage first. What redeeming qualities does she posses that so attract you?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3163 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 12:27 AM, November 25th (Monday)

coda,
My apologies but I''m going to be blunt.

You busted her at a hotel with the OM...post-dday...and she was angry about it. She wasn''t embarrassed. She didn''t say she was sorry. Her gut reaction was to be angry with you for confronting her and interrupting her tryst with OM.

Why would you want to continue in an M with someone who treats you this way? To put it another way if this scenario happened to one your kids in their M what would you want them to do?

Your ww doesn''t deserve the consideration of another chance based on her continued betrayal and utter lack of remorse. She hasn''t even earned the thought of staying with her imho. That''s not to say you can''t work with her and co-parent and act in a cordial, civil manner. You can do that, but she has a lot of work to do if she were to expect you to continue to be with her as a husband. At this point she doesn''t show signs of wanting that, which I''m sorry to see for the pain it''s causing your family.

Please focus on yourself and work on detaching. Protect yourself legally too. Please.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4082 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, November 25th (Monday)

Coda

Glad you confronted them. How immature and sad that they put each other over their own spouses and children.

Why on earth would you wait on such a selfish woman.

Give her what she wants. The divorce.

Give her all the rope she needs to hang herself while acting like a fool.

Focus on you and your children. You really need to be their rock because your STBXW has lost her mind.

Show her consequences or she will never learn any lessons from this debacle of her own creation.

Stay strong.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
OK now
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Default  Posted: 5:38 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)

Your WW is 'in love', infatuated with the OM. He is her KISS, her hero etc. and its no use expecting her to behave rationally until disillusionment sets in. That will happen eventually when the depth of her 'crime' becomes apparent to her.

By divorcing her you regain respect in her eyes and well as bolstering your own self-esteem. You send a message they you won't allow her to walk over you anymore and you expose her failings as a wife. If you backtrack now you won't get your wife back; she will agree to delay the divorce and then blatantly carry on the affair. You will have taken a few steps backward.

I repeat; you can't attempt reconciliation with your wife as long as she is deeply emotionally involved with this piece of slime who has broken up 2 marriages and has no conscience about what he has done. They are both living a fantasy and when they face the reality of bringing up 5 very confused children, who have been stripped of security and protection, then their 'love' will be exposed for what it is; a trivial exercise in irresponsible lust.

Stay the course and continue to behave decently in front of friends and family. Just wait for their affair to disintegrate as your wife finally realizes what a dishonorable thing she has done. Not a romantic ideal of a glorious love that cannot be denied, but a squalid tale of betrayal of both husband and family.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, December 1st (Sunday)

I had dinner with a good friend last night who also went through a divorce with his wife after a similar situation to mine. What he said really made sense to me. He also has known my WW even a little longer than I have known her. He basically said to let her go. She's not my wife anymore, not even a friend. Therefore I have no responsibility as her husband. He said he made some of the same mistakes I've made. And that I need to start having a backbone and have more self respect.

When I got home I mentally decided to let my WW go. I cried/sobbed and let it all out. Then I wrote my WW letter. I said it would be best if she moves out of the house, live with the AP if she wants to, and have her AP pay for the rent.
I said I'm not her husband anymore, she is now the AP's girlfriend, so she should let him take care of her. If she refuses to move out (I can't force her to legally), then I said we will live like roomates until the divorce is finalized. We alternate days taking the kids to/from school, dining, bathing, helping with the homework,etc.
And she needs to pay 50% of the housing expenses.
I said I will not pay for everything, take care of the kids all the time while she is out running around with the AP, its not fair and I won't be used like that.

I also said my love for her has finally run out. And that from now on I'm going to look out for myself and for my own future.

I emailed my attorney to continue to push to continue the divorce process.

I feel better today.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, December 2nd (Monday)

Sorry you''re going through this but glad you''re making progress in your understanding of your WW. I would advise any future letters or messages to your WW you run by your attorney. My attorney told me their clients often were the ones who turned what could have been a simple process into a lengthy, costly one. It''s understandable that it happens because we operate from a place of deep emotional hurt. That''s why I bounced things off of my attorney before taking any actions. It''s a matter of protecting yourself.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4082 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

Good suggestion about running it by my attorney.
Will do that in the future.

Yes, I am finally, after three months, starting to see a bit more clearly. Right now my WW doesn't give a crap or have any respect for me. In fact her actions tell me she only cares about herself and the AP. Not sure what took me so long to realize it, but I'm not going to chase someone who doesn't love me. I'm no longer going to act and take care of responsibilities as her husband. Her AP should start taking care of her, not me.

Every night the last few nights, I re-affirm to myself, let her go, she is no longer my wife, I deserve better. It seems to be working.

I haven't noticed any changes in my WW's behavior. But I'm sure she notices my change. I only talk to her breifly when necessary. But it's polite at least.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
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Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, December 2nd (Monday)

Way back in the day I suggested the following regarding divorce and I still think it holds true:

NEVER talk D with your wife. IF she initiates d-talk then simply say “I am too emotionally attached to this marriage to trust myself to act rationally and protect my interests. All D-talk should be through my attorney Mr. Ieat Sharks Forlunch.”


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, December 4th (Wednesday)

I'm feeling better these last few days. Sadness still creeps up on me, but I keep saying to myself, just let her go, I deserve better.

Not much talk between me and my WW (besides stuff about the kids). I reminded her once via email to either move out of the house, or pay her share of the housing expenses.

I told the rest of our mutual friends about the affair and divorce. I even told my WW's mother yesterday. So now the A is fully exposed. OMW has been doing the same thing.

My attorney has done everything he can to speed things along. But my WW is dragging her feet turning in the necessary info/paperwork.

I met with the OMW last night. She said her WH has made several excuses about why the divorce needs to be delayed and asked her "what's the rush"? She thinks he is concerned about the hit he will take financially (she will get 50% of the company that he built).

I've been researching homes I could afford to buy after the divorce. Did some budgeting, post D. Trying to go out more with friends.

It's 15 weeks after D-Day. I'm still alive and haven't lost my mind yet.
But so far I dont think I had one good thing break my way these past weeks.
I figure something has to happen to my advantage sooner or later. Just waiting now for the D to move along. I think my WW is aware of my change in attitude.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, December 5th (Thursday)

Oh she is aware Coda.

Her Plan B is leaving and she knows it.

Keep up the "Dont give a sh!t attitude".

Fake it till you make it.

Get your share of the expenses and divorce her in 10 seconds flat.

I hope the OMW keeps up the momentum and gets her fair share as well.

How are your kids holding up COda?

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:12 AM, December 9th (Monday)

I let her draw me into a fight. A mistake. But I learned she still thinks she has me. She made a comment about how ill apologize in few days. I won't though. I will go through with the divorce. She thinks I'm bluffing.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
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Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, December 9th (Monday)

We mentioned this before, how your wife considers your divorce threat to be bluffs. she thinks she calls all the shots and you will reconcile if things fall through with the OM. In fact, you recently stated you would if she ended the affair.

The amount of humiliation this woman has dumped on you is appalling, but I see you are getting to the point where you genuinely see no way back. Imagine if she did agree to reconcile. Can you imagine it being successful given her lack of respect for you and the painful memories you have to live with?

Thats why posters on SI say genuine reconciliation can only come from a totally remorseful WS, who is willing to endure your anger and tears, for years if necessary. Your WW does not qualify. Her 'reconciliation' would be tainted with arrogance and disrespect and as such would be ultimately unsuccessful.
Its a painful road to the divorce courts, but sometimes its the only path that makes sense.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bigger
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Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, December 9th (Monday)

She NEEDS a fight.

OK now said pages ago that WW need to argue because:

“She is now full of self-righteous anger; you are the bastard she always thought you were; you deserve to be cheated on etc. etc.“

And I said pages ago:

“The WW wants a reason to leave you so the WW starts arguments (that you don’t respond to). These arguments are aimed at justifying her view on the marriage.”

Coda – Both R and D are tasks that you have to commit to. You can’t really be semi-divorcing while reconciling. I know you know that you alone can’t reconcile – that you need your wife to be part of the team. And I also know that you know she can’t R while still in an affair with OM. Ergo: your only option is divorce.
It might not be what you want but it’s the least evil of the options you are being offered.

I know that you know this.

That could change IF she lets you know she wants to reconcile and her actions support her words. But even then… Her actions better support her words. Frankly I don’t see that happening and I definitely see the train pulling out of the station.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, December 9th (Monday)

Yes, I feel so stupid for letting her get me angry again. It was for something really dumb too. She did laundry she folded all the clothes except mine, on purpose to make me angry. Ugh!

Guys, I really am at the point where R is out of the question for me. And I am anxious to get the Divorce done asap. It would take a miracle for us to R after all this. And the effort to convince me to R would have to be from her 1000%. And even then I am not sure if I would want to. Anyway she has way too much pride and is stubborn. So I doubt this will ever happen.

I meet with my attorney tomorrow. And will ask him to try and speed up the process.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
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Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, December 9th (Monday)

She will not reconcile; she is arrogantly perched on that pedestal of pride and she is incapable of climbing down and humbly asking for your forgiveness. Added to that she is not alone; she has the emotional support of the OM. Its you that is isolated and its so heartless of her not to have a shred of compassion for your situation.

Given that most affairs don't turn into happy relationships, it will be interesting to see what the future brings for her. Once you are free of her malignant daily presence things will improve so much for you.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)

We went to MC to find out the best way to break the news to the kids about the divorce. We ended up bickering in the MC session so the counselor had to remind us both to be adults and try to be civil until the divorce is finalized (since we are still living together). Since then it has been more civil at home.

Talked to my attorney yesterday. He said to not be surprised if my WW suddenly changes her mind about custody. I asked him to please do whatever is possible to speed up the process. My attorney said depending on the negotiation process, the D will take several months. Ugh!

I think my WW is starting to realize some of the practical/financial realities of getting D. Last night she was asking if there was a way we could keep our home and not sell it. The reality, is that neither of us can afford to buy the other out, so we will have to sell. Then she started talking about how it would be better if the kids were able to live in the same neighborhood at least. I said I agree, except the reality neither of us individually can afford the homes in our current neighborhood. That means change of friends and possibly schools for a our kids.

I finally told my younger sister about the affair and divorce. Turns out she knows the AP casually. She asked around and found out that the AP had a previous affair with a 20-something girlfriend who lived in LA. And that he frequents hostess bars. More confirmation the guy is a loser/creep. I'm not going to share this info with my WW. She will find out on her own sooner or later.

OMW finally got her immigration issues sorted out. She will file for D soon. It will be interesting how that goes. AP will take a bigger hit financially since his WW is a housewife and he owns a company which his wife is entitled to 50% in Hawaii.

[This message edited by coda87 at 4:48 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)

So your selfish wife is beginning to see the damage and upheaval caused by her affair and to make it worse she will eventually lose the creep OM and end up with nothing. I agree that when she sees she will have nothing but her kids, she may attempt to rework custody arrangements.

Sometimes marriages end because of stubborn pride and the inability to admit blame and wrongdoing. So it seems to apply to your wife. Even if the OM vanished from the equation she will not change her attitude, will not ask for forgiveness. Such madness.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Abbondad
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Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)

And I also know that you know she can’t R while still in an affair with OM. Ergo: your only option is divorce.

I have an extremely rational mind, but it took me many excruciating months to finally accept this simple logic, Coda. It really is that black-and-white. Even now, well into the divorce, my heart is still playing catch-up with my head. I know what you are going through. I could be telling this to myself one year ago: Please put a stop to her emotional abuse. It really can get worse and worse until the pain truly becomes unbearable as it did in my case. Let her go. No remorse/no dumping AP = keep the divorce going. But tread carefully. Expect craziness.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 7:00 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1677 | Registered: Dec 2012
meredith132
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Member # 41593
Default  Posted: 12:54 AM, December 15th (Sunday)

My partner has same crappy attitude as what you are dealing with. Its really hard to deal with especially when so many WS seem instantly remorseful.

I would tell OBS asap. Do not chase your wife, she will not respect you for it and it will end up making you feel worse about it all.

I do really feel for you its so difficult when somebody appears to switch of their feelings so swiftly. call on your friends and family and get out there show her she is not the be all and end all. She may still not come back but by the time you know this for sure you will have started rebuilding a life for yourself. Good luck xx


Posts: 52 | Registered: Dec 2013
meredith132
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Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, December 15th (Sunday)

sorry was replying without realising there was another page of responses Doh!!!! x

Posts: 52 | Registered: Dec 2013
meredith132
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Member # 41593
Default  Posted: 1:06 AM, December 15th (Sunday)

Amazing how they are shocked when they are hit with consequences of their actions isn't it? Like they really believe we should accommodate their piss poor behaviour. And they get angry at us with all the blameshifting!!! Its all very bizarre x

Posts: 52 | Registered: Dec 2013
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

I haven't posted and update in 9 days. My WW and I don't talk much. Basically I see her in the mornings and nights that she is not out. But I try to avoid talking to her except about our kids.


I've been going out more. Last Thur I had dinner with a friend whose wife also left him. Saturday I went out drinking with my younger sister by 11 years and some of her friends. And I had a great time. Tomorrow I have lunch with the OMW. And then we go out again on Saturday night to see the Nutcracker Suite.

My WW wont move out, so I arranged it so that we watch the kids 50/50. She looks really tired and stressed out. But she still goes out on Mo We Fr and comes back 12-2am. I have Tu Th Sa, but I don't always go out. And if I do, I usually come home before the kids go to bed.

I talked to my mortgage broker. I might just be able to qualify to refinance our home on my own. But I might be a little short to buyout my WW. I talk to my attorney about that on Fri to see if we can negotiate something with my WW and her attorney. I would feel much better for me and my kids if we could stay in our home.

I have brief moments where I feel relief from the sadness of the situation. Earlier today, I actually thought I felt content/happy for a bit. I think going out and trying to have a good time helps.

OMW said her WH invited her to lunch about a week ago after they both ran the Honolulu Marathon. And after he sent her an email about his feelings. He said to her thanks for being there for him. Sorry he was a bad husband, and not making her happy. I told her at least it seems he feels somewhat bad/guilty and that he expressed those feelings to her. I doubt I will ever hear the same from my WW. OMW said she will still divorce him though. Now that their family received their permanent visas, its the green light for her to move forward with D. I told her I'm pretty sure I am at that point with my WW.

This may sound funny, but now I see myself less as victim of A. Instead I see my WW having created very difficult future for herself. Despite the way she has treated my these last few months, somehow I still have some empathy about what she will face sooner or later. It really saddens me to think about what she will go through once she realizes what she risked and lost for the AP. Or maybe she will never realize, who knows.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
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Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

In conversations with the OMW did she mention any comment from her STBXH about setting up house with your wife? Curious about whether that relationship is still flourishing or stagnating. The odds are that your wife will end up alone which is precisely what she deserves.

Meanwhile all you can do is press on with the divorce and hopefully buy your wife out of her share of the house so she can leave. You deserve some good fortune after all the crap that has been dumped on you over the past few months. This Xmas may suck, but here's to future yuletides that are full of cheer.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Regarding the the AP moving out, the OMW has been pushing him to move out of their condo. But, his excuse is that the lease runs til the end of March. So he asked her to wait until then. I'm not sure of the logic behind this. He could move out now, and let his BW and kids stay until the lease expires, while he gets another place for himself and my WW. Maybe he doesn't have as much money as it seems. AP & OMW rent a condo, they don't own any real estate, residential or commercial. Their cars are Volvo and MB, but 2006 & 2005 models. I get the feeling he makes money, but spends it on going out to dinners, drinking, on women like my WW, etc.
My WW and I own a newer 4 bed home in nice gated community with 50%+ equity. We own another investment condo free and clear. I drive a 2010 Toyota, but I just got my WW at 2013 Lexus in May because she wanted a nice car. But hey, my WW says our marriage was boring. So maybe I was too frugal with our finances.

I've asked my WW to move out several times, and have the AP pay for part or all of it.
Her excuse is that she doesn't have the money, she doesn't want to be away from the kids, and she doesn't want to move out because it's my idea. I told her she can see the kids 50% of the time, which is what we talked about when we D, joint custody. A few of our friends that I exposed the A to have tried to contact my WW. But they said she has not returned their calls/emails. I imagine out of shame.

I'm not really sure what is the relationship status of my WW & AP. I've caused not drama the last 10 days, so nothing for her to run to the AP for comfort her about. I can imagine that must get tiring for the AP. All I know is that she still goes out M W F. But I think last week she only went out two days with him because on of the days she kept texting me about small stuff throughout the night. When she is with him, she rarely text's me. This week I also think she will only see him twice. She switched days with me on Fr to Th so she can go to her tennis club party. I'm not actively spying on them anymore. I know pretty much all I need to know. And I think I'm caring less about what she does recently.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
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Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, December 20th (Friday)

Sounds as if you are on a good path emotionally.
It’s not what you wanted, it’s not what I hoped the outcome might be but… it’s what you are dealt with and you realize that you are doing the best with what you are dealt with.
I wouldn’t be surprised if your WW had some regrets and might try to open a path to reconciliation. If she does then what will be different is that now it’s YOU that needs convincing.
Should you reconcile? Has she crossed some ethical bridge that makes this case irreconcilable? Well… I don’t know. I think it’s always a case by case evaluation where you alone can be the judge. It’s totally your call IF it comes to that.

On a practical matter: Regarding the house. If you think that financially you can manage with keeping it on your income then remember that divorce is based on a fair distribution of assets. Not necessarily exactly equally split 50/50 per item. Some consideration is placed on who brings in the bacon, why the other has a lower income, contribution to joint funds and so on. So if buying her half might be hard then maybe she can receive “payment” in keeping her pension untouched, getting the Lexus, paying less CS or having the difference defined as “prepaid child support”.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, January 3rd (Friday)

Happy New Year Everyone. I'm glad 2013 is over, and I hope 2014 is better.

The last couple weeks over the holidays has been peaceful. My WW finally agreed to move out of the house into our investment condo. The kids will stay mostly with me. But she will visit with them a couple days during the week and have them sleepover on Saturday night. This is supposed to start this weekend. I told my lawyer about it. He is going to put it in writing and submit our agreement to the court to make it official.

The AP went on a vacation with his wife and kids from 12/27 and returning today. Not sure how my wife feels about that.

To be honest, I'm really following what my brain is telling me I should do which is to go through with the divorce, let her move out, let her go basically. But my heart is still torn and wishes there was some way we can save our marriage. My WW has been nice the last couple weeks. I know probably since the AP is not available, or the holidays. Or it could be that I haven't nagged her about the A or even talked about it. Who knows?


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, January 5th (Sunday)

Coda

Stay the course.

Until your wife is remorseful youhave no choice but to D her.

Stay strong.
Ignore her.

Love your kids.

And put your life back together.

There are much better women out there and your wife is truly broken.

She needs to taste her decisions and feel the damage she is making before she ever "gets it".


Sad but true.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, January 5th (Sunday)

Coda,
Maybe your WW is starting to realize that she might be making another mistake, if the AP is still with his BW.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 493 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, January 5th (Sunday)

I really don't know what's going on.
But I know AP took his wife and kids on a skiing trip. They got back Fri. They have been going to family dinners. Today they went to lunch and then to a japanese temple to get a news years blessing.
AP told his wife he will move out from January. But he didn't move out yet. My wife was supposed to move out yesterday. She hasn't yet. It could still happen though.

I'm not changing any of my D plans. I just talked to my lawyer on Friday.

I have not talked to my WW about anything related to the AP or the affair, or our marriage in the last couple weeks.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, January 5th (Sunday)

I don't know whether your WW will ever want her marriage back, but its obvious that until her affair is broken and over she will keep the emotional link with the OM. As you may have implied, there are subtle signs that all is not well in fantasy land, however all you can do is move forward with the divorce and stay agreeable and pleasant.

Its important she moves to the apartment because that will introduce stress into her life and if the OM won't join her, [maybe he's reconciling?], then her mindset will definitely change. What the final outcome will be is up in the air, but stay non-hostile and friendly with your WW; that way a logical decision will be arrived at without anger and confrontation.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
flipper66
New Member
Member # 41874
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, January 5th (Sunday)

cods87.. stay with the 180 it does work .. it takes to working on a marriage to make it work.
just a little biblical story here to prove my point.. you have two horses (or oxen ) pulling a cart loaded with produce that it would take 1 horse much longer and harder to pull but able to do it eventually . yet one of the oxen/horse dies while pulling the cart .. if left unattended the one oxen/horse would not only have to pull the cart which it could do by itself but also the dead horse as well which literally wears the one oxen/horse out before it can get the cart to were it needs to be... so the owner finally cuts the dead oxen/horse loose from the harness and the one horse is now able to proceed pulling the cart..
one person in the marriage can't do all the work and get it to work especially while pulling the dead partner along to try and make it work eventually you have to cut your looses and divorce so you can move on ... see the parallel
.. not saying your marriage is over by any shot (your saying your seeing hopeful signs maybe because of the 1980 plan) keep working the 180 in any case you'll be in a good place which ever way this turns... please do see an atty. as well and see what your options are.. you make no meantion of children which will make it a lot easier if you do get a divorce.. document everything even now and what she has done before .. there are ways of finding out what you need on th ecomputer as far as pswords and sites she visits .. never believe the 1st things that a cheater may say they usually are cover my backside mode and you've only seen the tip of the iceberg theres plenty tht she hasn't even touched yet and probably won't unless you find out more without her knowing..
the part about after you discussed what you believe to be an affair she admits to it but then with unmitigated gall she tells you several days latter they meet again and made it physical. the fact that she changed everything says she's really in deep in her fairy tale fantasty affair with this other guy.. you should by all means tell the om wife she has the riught to know what you know and the kind of d-bag she's married to.. I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot youd want to know as well... don't tell your wife your going to do it just do it.. statistics says that many men about 75% to 80% won't leave their wife for the affair partner.. which works in your favor
also it makes it harder for them to even take it under ground because now 2 sets of eyes are watching.. plus the fact that the shock of the exposure he'll probably throw here under the bus wheels to keep things right with his wife which may (hopefully) bust the fairytale fantasy of the affair when real life smacks her up the side of the face.(not you smacking her lol knowing you might want to)
hope you listen to all the veterns on here they'll stir you in the right direction

Posts: 5 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: melbourne,fl
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, January 6th (Monday)

Coda,

It sounds a lot like you are doing the only correct thing available to you.
I know what you really want (well… at least I think I know what you really want). You want your house to stop burning. You hope that you can put out the flames before the house is completely destroyed. You hope you have something to rebuild. But… while there are still flames, embers and smoke then stopping the process of killing the fire will only allow it to grow again.

I know from our communications and your posts that you fully get that. I know that you know what I am talking about. And I see that you ARE still beating out the flames and making your escape from the fire.

Very early on I told you I think your wife needs to vocally and unequivocally commit to R:

“But I can’t save it alone and until you clearly and vocally state that you are willing to work towards reconciliation then the only honest and healthy thing I can do is move on”

This still applies, and she isn’t moving those lips.

The stratagem of “no action” is what WS usually want when and if an affair unravels. To me it sounds as if OM isn’t really going to leave his wife. He isn’t committing to your WW. So while your WW waits she tries “no action”. It’s her safest route because she can hold on to the mundane security of you and still have some hope of the excitement of OM.
Chances are she won’t initiate the move to the rental unless she hears from OM or has some hope the affair can carry on.

Right now you should be remembering that her leaving is not the worst outcome. Remaining in infidelity – EVEN inactive infidelity – is immensely worse. So IMHO you should maintain the D process and gently remind her that she planned to leave the house.
Don’t have to kick her out or force the issue, but clarification is in order. You can tell her that the termination of your marriage is inevitable while she chooses OM over the marriage. That since it’s inevitable you feel enough of your time has been wasted in infidelity and she needs to move because YOU need the distance from her. That the present cohabitation pattern isn’t sustainable and is emotionally confusing for you and for the children. The present situation might be “nice” but it’s not normal or something you will settle for.

It’s OK IMHO to let her know you still have emotions towards her and the marriage. But also let her know it’s EXACTLY because of those emotions you feel you need distance and time away from her. It’s also OK to let her know that you have grown comfortable with the thought of not having her as a friend, wife or someone that is involved in your life beyond co-parenting. Once again – it’s not what you want but it beats what you are being offered by a mile.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, January 6th (Monday)

I just spoke to my WW on the phone. I wanted to discuss two things. First, what's holding up the attorney's from moving forward faster in the divorce is how we should divide up the assets. I want to keep the house. But that means she will get less than 50% of the assets. She prefers I keep the house for the kids sake. But is worried if she will have enough left in assets to survive. She is also worried about her income which is 100% commission based. I asked her if she discussed with the AP if he is willing to support her financially should she need it. She said she has not done that yet. I told her that she really should discuss that with him, since she is taking a significant financial risk to be with him. And she needs to know if she can count on his financial support. Funny that she mentioned that the both of us, and the AP will take a financial hit after our divorces. But that the OMW is the lucky one, since she will get half the assets of the AP, child support and probably some alimony since she doesn't work. I agreed with her. And said the AP made this all possible.

The second item I wanted to discuss was if she still intends to move out to our rental condo as we planned. She said she would have moved out already, except one of our dogs got sick. It's true but I wonder what the AP will think of this excuse. I could have taken care of our dog. So now she is planning to move out sometime next week. I said okay.

And the end of our phone call I did remind her that I preferred trying to R rather than D. But as long as the A is still going on, my only choice is to move forward with the D.

I feel more confident in what I am doing now. I don't feel angry, still some sadness. But glad I can follow my brain more than my heart now.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, January 6th (Monday)

Good. Your brain and heart are getting in sync.

It is okay to feel bad. Go ahead. Grieve the marriage. I am so sorry.

Hugs to you (((((Coda)))))


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1144 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, January 6th (Monday)

Good Coda.

Stick to the plan and leave the fools to be together.

Oh how happy they will be in a year.

Not!

And not your problem.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
toby
Member
Member # 10337
Default  Posted: 9:17 PM, January 6th (Monday)

Are you cool with the OM moving in with your WW into your rental? That's likely to happen...right?

Posts: 1558 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, January 6th (Monday)

If the OM is moving in with your WW, [he could be considering reconciliation by the sounds of it], by all means allow him contact with your children. Two adults and 3 noisy hostile kids crammed into a condo should put a bit of stress on their relationship. Wonder how long their stupid fantasy will last when the realities of day to day living impact on their lives.

I question telling your wife you are prepared to reconcile. It just reassures her that she can continue this affair right up to the divorce and she can still get you back if the OM dumps her. I suspect this marriage is history; too much humiliation, too much blatant adultery to forgive. If she does ever ask to come back I think you will find a lot of bitterness will rise to the surface. Besides she will only return if she's dumped which makes you a second-best option; if she can't have the OM, then you are better than the alternative....... until a new OP appears.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, January 6th (Monday)

And the end of our phone call I did remind her that I preferred trying to R rather than D. But as long as the A is still going on, my only choice is to move forward with the D.

I''m sorry but to a WS still in the fog, still in the A, what you said will probably be taken as "I am will be to Plan B". To her this means she take her chances with OM and if she doesn''t like the way it''s going she can just come back to you. Guarantee you the moment the OM annoys her she will throw that in his face, that she has you as an "option". It feeds her ego.

I know that is not what you intended but I am certain that is how she will interpret what you said.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4082 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, January 6th (Monday)

I realize that my WW may interpret it that way. But the way I've been acting since Dday, she probably already knows it. I just wanted to make it clear my decision to D and not wait any longer is because of the A.

One of my best friends father, who I have great respect for, suggested that I go through with the D no matter what happens with the AP and my WW. This way I am legally protected financially and with custody of the kids. And my WW will know I was serious about D. Then if/when my WW finally realizes her mistake, I can decide then if I want to R. It made sense to me.

I wish I could start over from Dday and do everything right. But I'm just relieved that I know I'll make it through this ordeal. Even just a couple months ago, it all seemed so hopeless. I know I'll be alright with or without her. I could neither D or R prior to having this attitude/state of mind.

As far as her moving in the AP in our rental unit or another place. I actually suggested she do that, so she can see what the AP is like in a somewhat more real life relationship (ie not just going out having a good time 3 nights/wk). As long as she pays the rent, I have no emotional attachment to the rental unit.

[This message edited by coda87 at 3:56 AM, January 7th (Tuesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, January 7th (Tuesday)

I think it‘s OK (and actually beneficial) for Coda to let his WW know that the possibility of R is still there IF she complies with his demands.

This is not the same as Coda saying he will reconcile or that if she does come and request R he will comply. It simply means that IF she changes her mind and IF Coda deems she’s meeting his demands then he AT THAT TIME might accept to make the effort. It’s leaving HIS options open.

Frankly I don’t see why Coda’s case is so unique or extremely bad that his WW actions should make R impossible. As far as infidelity goes it’s pretty vanilla. We have seen people reconcile form “worse” and we have seen people divorce for “less”. (Hate quantifying infidelity).

Coda; I find this sentence quite revealing:

“She is also worried about her income which is 100% commission based”

When asked why she hasn’t left, hasn’t talked to OM about the future and so on she gives a lame excuse (pretty close to the classic “dog ate my homework”) and then let’s you know of this worry. IMHO she still sees you and the family as her “steady income”. You are still the unexciting rock while the OM and the affair is the exciting, risky but unreliable.
Now – being “unexciting” is fine but being an OPTION isn’t.
Her future income is not your concern. She can´t rely on you to be the balancing factor or the steady provider.

If you think the present financial agreement regarding the division of assets is acceptable then get that in writing ASAP. Don’t forget to take EVERYTHING into account; it’s not that she has a right to half the house and half the condo. It’s more that she has half of ALL your debts and half of ALL your assets. If I remember correctly then she is driving a newer, more expensive car.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)

Taking all of our assets and debts into account, and based on what my mortgage broker tells me the most mortgage loan I can qualify for, I'm still gonna be short so that she would end up with 50% of our net worth. So that's what I'm trying to negotiate. Otherwise, I don't see how I can keep the house.

I text msg'd the OMW last night that my WW went to meet the AP. OMW was suprised and a little upset because AP told her he had a business meeting. Not that she should trust anything he says. But why would he give his wife an excuse/lie about his whereabouts to try to hide the A again? He never used to voluntarily let his wife know where he will be at night. My WW doesn't try to conceal the A anymore. When she goes out with him, she just says I'm going out. My gut is telling me, he is having second thoughts about losing his family. OMW says he has been nicer lately too.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)

As far as her moving in the AP in our rental unit or another place. I actually suggested she do that,

Anytime the BS can suggest that their wife might like to move in with another man, then there's not much to rescue in this marriage.

The marriage has been bad for a number of years and we live in a society with a 50% divorce rate, one has to presume the ultimate outcome is divorce. I agree reconciliation is an extremely long shot, but if it happens it should be post divorce.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)

I want my WW to start experiencing a some reality.
Move out of our home. See was it's like with the AP in "real life". Moving in with him will allow her to experience that. Also, it's a test for the AP to see if he will actually move out and leave his family. Up until now, my WW has had her family, home, my financial support basically everything she wants/needs. And she has the AP on the side a few nights a week for fun. This can't continue forever.

I don't know exactly how long the D process takes. But almost 3 months have passed by since I filed so it's a very slow process. It might take several more months. I've done all I can do to not slow down the process from my side. My WW knows that so the pressure of a pending D is there. But I want my WW to get a taste of what D would be like asap.

There is a risk, she might never come back after moving out, and her and the AP are happy together. I am prepared for that. I can handle the D. And like I said in my last post, I might D just to have the financial and custody protection in place.

[This message edited by coda87 at 2:29 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Dyokemm
Member
Member # 40254
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, January 9th (Thursday)

Coda,

I agree get her out fast so she can enjoy all the facets of her new 'freedom', not just the Fantasy Land fun times.

Time for her to face the fullness of her new reality.


Posts: 58 | Registered: Aug 2013
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, January 11th (Saturday)

Now i hate my WW. I realize she is messed.up in the head and just cake eating as long as possible. So i will show her consequences now. No more nice guy attitude. From now cheated husband attitude. No more talking about divorce negotiation directly with her. From now on, it willl be done through my lawyer. No more trying to make sure she'll be ok with the divorce settlement. I tell my lawyer get me the best deal possible for me and my kids.

Im sick of this. 5 months of BS.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, January 12th (Sunday)

So i will show her consequences now. No more nice guy attitude. From now cheated husband attitude.

I think I can hear your 'Give a shit' breaking.

Time to go alpha male on her. Put her out, no more mister nice guy.

Too bad for your WW. When the betrayed Spouse gets to this point, there is no turning back.

So sorry.

Peace and Strength to you Coda.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1144 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, January 12th (Sunday)

In front of my WW, i called her mother and informed her whats been going on. I think it shocked my WW. She has been silent. Also our divorce is gettting a little nasty. I think she will try to ask for more than what is fair.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, January 12th (Sunday)

Be careful.

Your WW may look like your wife and even smell like your wife but she is really a pod person. Watch your back. She is not your friend, in fact she is kinda the enemy. And she will not hesitate to treat you like the enemy.

Hold your cards close to your chest. Mr. Nice Guy has left the building. Protect your self, let the Lawyers handle everything.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1144 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
HobbesTheTiger
Member
Member # 41477
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, January 12th (Sunday)

Hi,

I'm sorry for you and the kids!

I posted this somewhere else and hope it will help at least somewhat:

"A couple of suggestions to think about, if I may:
- talk to a lawyer about protecting yourself, your boys, your assets
- after talking to a lawyer, set up family counselling for the children, it will help them immensely and hopefully look good in potential custody disputes. Children are greatly influenced and perceptive of such tensions between parents.
- consider counselling (paid/pro bono) and/or support groups for yourself
- carry a VAR at all times and take other precautions to defend yourself against bogus abuse etc. accusations,
- document everything (your care for boys, her care, detrimental conduct,... to boys,) for custody purposes. It could get ugly and your kids need you as much as possible in their lives
- don't drink/get drunk
- as hard as it is for you, from hereonin, you'll have to be the hero for your buys and take extra super care for them, especially to make up for her detrimental conduct, role-modelling,...
- reach out to your close ones for support
- make safe copies of evidence pointing to her affair
- think about (after talking to your lawyer) asking her to go to marital counselling, church counselling etc. with you, upon certain conditions (verifiable no-contact with OM etc.). Notify her in writing of that (remember - document! so you can prove in court if you get divorced). If she isn't willing to discuss it, set up one or two meeting with a counsellor for both of you and notify her when&where. If she doesn't show up, express disappointment (in writing/email). Again, it might help you save your marriage, and at the very least will perhaps help you in divorce/custody proceedings.
- make sure you don't let her in on what you're doing to protect yourself
- after having sufficient precautions in place and after talking to your lawyer, expose her affair

I'm sure others, more experienced will give more and better advice.

Don't trust her to play fair and don't expect her to do what's best for the kids. Since she had/has an affair, she clearly isn't thinking in the kids' best interest."

I'm glad you're taking decisive actions and hopefully you'll make the best for you&the kids out of this extremely horrible situation!

Looking forward to hearing more from "Mr. Cheated-Husband/Father/Papa-Bear"!

Best wishes


BxBf, 26
Lots of FOO&other issues, working it through therapy
Legal profession

Posts: 330 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Continental Europe
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:43 AM, January 13th (Monday)

WW is moving out tomorrow to our rental condo. OMW said AP also said he will move out soon and is looki ng for an apt. Kids will say with me most of the time. WW will visit with them after school a couple nights per week and part of the weekend. We fought big time this morning. Im not putting up with her crap anymore. I was too nice and let her run things her way. She knows i exposed it to her mother. But she hasnt called her mom yet.

[This message edited by coda87 at 1:45 AM, January 13th (Monday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, January 13th (Monday)

Coda,

Being angry is fine.

Sounds like you are going through the Kubler-Ross 5 stages of grief; denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. The progress is seldom linear and/or clear-cut but basically you need to spend some time at each stage. You can (and I guess all of us do) experience one or more of these emotions at the same time.
It sounds a bit like you are in late-bargaining (exposing to her mom with her witnessing it is IMHO a drastic bargaining step)/full anger stage. That’s good IF you are over the denial stage; IMHO that’s the most dangerous phase for us BS to be, followed by depression. I’m hoping you realize that her actions are no reflection on you and with the support here on SI make it through wo an extended stay in depression.

You know I am very pro-reconciliation. I still think that if your WW came to you right now willing to meet your demands for R then your marriage still has a chance IF YOU STILL WANTED IT. I think the point-of-no-return is so personal and individually based that it’s only when you are at that spot you can tell if R is an option or not. But I have also always maintained that you can’t R alone and your WW has to be willing to meet basic requirements for R ever to be an option. To me it sounds a lot like you have reached a stage where even if she wanted to R you would be extremely reluctant to try. And that’s perfectly fine. This site is about surviving infidelity and our goal is to guide you to survival.

I do want to warn you about certain potential pitfalls:

Do NOT change divorce into an alternative relationship with your wife.
Sounds obvious but you will find dozens of stories of prolonged separation/divorce proceedings here on SI. Once you decide to D and/or your WW does not commit to R then her actions are – basically – no concerns of yours unless they DIRECTLY impact the divorce or potential custody. So if she’s meeting OM, moving in with OM, seeing OM in the condo… It’s definitely bad taste but not something you should allow to impact you.
Focus on ending the divorce. Focus on your goals. Be realistic. Make the correct concessions to attain your main goals.
Always remember that divorce is the process of establishing the LEAST amount of interaction required.
Be realistic. If your attorney tells you that you can’t limit OM’s access to your children… well… that’s it.

Focus on ENDING this situation. No – don’t be a pushover, but right now arguments aren’t going to get you anywhere. Any discrepancies in your demands and her demands will be settled by attorneys, not through a shouting match at home.
Expose because it serves a purpose. Do NOT expose to get even, get revenge or to cause WW embarrassment. Letting everyone that is a stakeholder in the marriage (and that would defiantly include MIL) know the truth is necessary IMHO.

Coda – the suggestions that she comes over to visit kids… That’s OK as a bargaining point in getting the house. But realistically that’s not going to work… Three months from now you won’t be happy with WW having keys to your residence, or the ability to go through your life. You will be moving on and won’t want her around. Great if that’s what’s needed so she concedes the house, but try to avoid having anything about that in writing.

Finally Coda – Once she moves make some noticeable change to the house. Change the foyer, furniture arrangement, remove family photos… Make it very clear that the house is no longer her residence.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, January 13th (Monday)

Thanks Bigger. The arrangement with the kids is only until the divorce is finalized. The rental condo is just a large studio, so not much room for her and 3 kids. Once we are D, I plan to have as little contact as possible with my WW except where necessary for the kids

I think now that she is out of the house, I won't feel like she is rubbing the affair in my face anymore. That's what if felt like to me and what caused the anger.

I told my attorney that I see no hope of reconciliation now, so just try to get my kids and I the best deal possible and that I will go with his recommendations to achieve that. I don't plan to deal with her directly about the D negotiations anymore. Looks like both our attorneys are recommending mediation as the next step.

The stages of grief, yes I've felt all those things. Anger was there right after Dday, then it came back recently. I think I am through denial. I'm on anti-depressants, so hopefully that keeps depression in check. I can say I do feel better than the first few months. Now I just feel anxious about the D and want to get it done with asap.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
HobbesTheTiger
Member
Member # 41477
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, January 13th (Monday)

How are the kids doing?


BxBf, 26
Lots of FOO&other issues, working it through therapy
Legal profession

Posts: 330 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Continental Europe
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, January 13th (Monday)

The younger ones seem fine. The older one knows something is going on. Now the my WW moved out, we will see. I'm sure they will miss their mother. Sad.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

Day 3 since WW moved out. I also found out from OMW that AP is moving out on 1/21. My WW stopped by our home last night to make dinner for the kids. I went out to eat myself.

I talked with my lawyer yesterday and told him im done trying to negotiate directly with my WW. And that i will just let him handle it from here on.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)

Stay tough Coda.

Let your handle your STBXW now.

She is not your friend. She is not your wife.

She is the OM's GF.

Keep all transactions on a business level.

Hopefully your attorney will get you the best deal possible.

Sorry for you and the boys.

And I do hope the OMW cleans him out for half his $$$.


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Feeling really sad about my WW not living in the house anymore. We have had very little contact, just a few text msgs related to the kids. AP moves out of his home on Tue. He also rented a small apt. OMW was also hit by a moment of sadness yesterday when she realized her 14 yrmarriage will be over soon.

The divorce process is so slow. It's just dragging on. On 1/29 we have to attend mandatory counseling with our kids, to learn about divorce and how it affects children. So before that, we need to sit down with our kids and let them know mom and dad are going through a divorce. With mom out of the house, they probably already suspect something is not good.

I just can't believe my WW doesn't see the destruction she is causing. All for jerk AP who would also leave his family. What a damn waste.
I just hope I can negotiate to keep the house.

[This message edited by coda87 at 2:08 PM, January 17th (Friday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, January 17th (Friday)

Sadness is totally normal. Doesn't mean you are making the wrong decision--but what a hard one, and awful position to be in. You are right to put this in the hands of your lawyer and are clearly thinking of your kids first which will be a good guide!


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4203 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 12:27 AM, February 6th (Thursday)

Last week our family had to attend mandatory court counseling to learn about how divorce affects children. So the night before, we told our kids about the divorce. My WW kept putting in off. And I thought we were going to sit down as a family an let our kids know. But my wife wanted to tell them separately. She went upstairs and came back in less than 10 min. When I told the kids, my oldest son started crying. The kids seem to be okay, but reluctant to talk about the divorce. I'm sure they just don't want to be in the middle of it and wish their life would just be normal again.

My WW moved out of the house 3 weeks ago. But she comes back Tue & Thu to see the kids/make dinner. And she comes back on Saturday and stays overnight til Sun.

All I can say is that I feel deep resentment toward my wife now. This is a new emotion, that somehow didn't surface, even though you would expect me to feel it much earlier. Her continuing A for now almost 6 months, is making me question what kind of person she is.

My attorney finished drafting a divorce decree with the terms I want. He will send it to her attorney soon. But the whole process is so slow.

I haven't felt much anger since WW moved out. I don't really feel like talking to her as much. But when we do, she is just like a broken record, saying she doesn't know what to do, its a hard decision, she needs a little more time blah blah blah. I'm getting bored of it.

I keep hoping that there will be a time where she will regret what she has done. I almost think I want that to happen just so that when reality comes crashing down on her and she wants to save the marriage, I can tell her to piss off. Is it evil for me to feel this way?


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, February 6th (Thursday)

I almost think I want that to happen just so that when reality comes crashing down on her and she wants to save the marriage, I can tell her to piss off. Is it evil for me to feel this way?
Very normal, especially now that you''ve found some of your anger at your WW for putting your family through this. This too shall pass.

Try to not to feed those thoughts though, because it would be unlikely for her to do from a place of remorse. It is more likely imho that she will never say anything about it even if she feels because she would not be willing to admit how much of a mistake she made.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4082 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, February 10th (Monday)

I'm so disappointed with my WW and the way things turned out. I don't even feel like posting here anymore. I can't describe what I feel now. It's not anger or even sadness. It's more like an emptiness or Blahh... I'm just waiting for the D to proceed and don't know why it takes so long.

It's been exactly four weeks since my WW moved out. To her it's a separation. But she comes back on Tue/Thu to make dinner for kids. And she comes back Saturday and stays til Sun or Mon. So to me it doesn't feel like a separation. In fact it seems like a setup for her to have more free time to spend with the OM, since she doesn't have sleep at home M-F nights. OM also moved out about 3 weeks ago.

I've pretty much decided D is inevitable. Although it wasn't my goal, I see that I don't have a choice. I just haven't told my WW yet. She still thinks I'm still waiting for her. Should I say something? Or just remain silent? I've been doing the 180 (not always perfectly but trying) at least since November. If it has had any effect, I've yet to see it. Maybe my WW could just see through it, because I wasn't always sincere about it.

25 weeks since D-Day! What crazy time. I'm still alive. And I guess feeling better since this all started. I wish I could move on quicker though. Limbo sucks big time!


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, February 10th (Monday)

Put a fork in it as soon as possible. Get a timeline from your attorney so that you know what to expect. Although your attorney cannot predict with certainty how long it will take because your STBX has the ability to throw monkey wrenches, he/she can give you firm time frames for each step where there is agreement. He/she can also give you an idea of how they can navigate the course when she causes delays and the time it would take to break those delay tactics.

It is important for you to know what to expect so that when things are not going at the pace they should be you know and can intervene. Lawyers (I am one) have multiple clients and different things pulling on them. You knowing what to expect and when to expect it can help keep things on track without causing friction. Knowledge is power. Be powerful.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 448 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, February 10th (Monday)

Crisp - Thanks for your reply. I just emailed my attorney about a timeline. I do think that my WW is deliberately delaying the process. I've always turned in my documents Asap. My WW has turned in her documents really slowly.

I guess all I can do it try to keep the process moving forward.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Crashtestdummy
Member
Member # 26121
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, February 10th (Monday)

Coda,

Get the divorce done ASAP!!! I wish I had done so. Instead it dragged out, my XWW got a DUI, lost her job, went on disability.... Let's just say, what would have been a 50/50 split with no alimony, turned into a nightmare that cost me a fortune in legal expenses, of which only the divorce was part of the $$$$.

it still hurts each month, but with everything I still ended up ok. It just would have been nice for me to be able splurge on a few toys or trips now and then...

Have your lawyer put the pressure on. Have him schedule a pre-trial as soon as possible. You wife does not need to agree to that, but the quicker you get in front of the court the better.

Keep reading here and learn from our mistakes...


BH-Me 51
XWW-her.... 54
2 Wonderful Sons: 32 & 21
D-Day: 09/22/09
Married 20 years
Divorce Final: 08/12 Enjoying Life!

"I Don't Suffer From Insanity, I Rather Enjoy It". Serge A Storms


Posts: 82 | Registered: Nov 2009
kalimata
Member
Member # 42104
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, February 11th (Tuesday)

Coda:

I just read your thread in its entirety. Your story is so sad. I am so sorry for what happened to you. The amount of pain and anguish your WW has caused you is truly immeasurable.

You seem to be handling yourself well. Just know that once the D is completed, you will move on with your life, and things will get better. You will find a nicer, hotter woman for yourself and things will be happy.

Your wife however is doomed for a life of unhappiness. Let me explain. Eventually the kids will learn of why their mother left. They will learn about the affair, and why she left with the OM and flaunted it in your face. I even bet that she introduced the OM to your kids with the hopes that they will 'like' him as a potential future stepfather. However the kids will see this as COMPLETE BETRAYAL.

I don't know how your kids will react, but I can probably guess there will be an incredible amount of disgust once they hear the truth. I wouldn't tell your kids directly what happened, but if they ask then don't lie. Always tell in age appropriate language what REALLY happened. As a father you deserve to tell them the truth instead of hearing from secondary sources. Your WW will want to keep this a secret as long as possible. Imagine her horror when she realizes she won't be invited to your kids wedding, or any future family event. When grandchildren arrive, I'm sure you will be the first to see them and spend time with them. Your WW will be the object of scorn for years, and I'll be surprised if your kids choose to let her see the grandkids. She chose this path, all for a bit of ass on the side. How pathetic. Your kids will immediately see through this and come down on her hard. She fvcked up their childhood and I'm sure they will resent her for a long time.

Although most Wayward wives come back to the marriage with remorse, yours clearly is not showing any signs of it. As a bit of consolation however, I urge you to read a post by a former WW (name Imadeamistake) on the Talk about Marriage forums. This poster only made one post. She is a wayward wive that moved in with her OM after her divorce. She didn't realize how much of a mistake she made with the A until a couple of years later, when she went begging back to her BH. The BH at that point had found another woman. Imadeamistake posted a long and heartfelt story about how she made a terrible mistake and ruined so many lives. Take a look at her post. Print out a copy and give it to your wife on the day that the D papers are signed.

So sorry that you are here. Keep posting, we will support you here my man.

Sending you peace and strength.............Kali

[This message edited by kalimata at 7:30 AM, February 11th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: USA
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, February 11th (Tuesday)

Hey Coda,

Good to hear from you.
So you are entering acceptance… That’s extremely good. So I go once more back to the burning house analogy: Nobody wants his house to burn but if it does then you sort of focus on what you managed to save and how to rebuild. Regretting the fire won’t get you anywhere.

Personally I don’t think this wife visiting kids at your house, sleeping over on Saturdays pattern is beneficial for your recovery nor sustainable as a new “normalcy” for the kids. It’s definitely a pattern that I would suggest you end…
EXCEPT for one reason…
I know that you are pushing for a divorce settlement that you feel is beneficial for the kids but might lean slightly in your favor regarding the family home and division of assets, thereby making it possible for the kids to remain in the family home and minimizing the trauma. To get that goal then it MIGHT be worth the effort and pain to not rock the boat and to keep WW amicable.

But once that issue is cleared up and the division of assets/debts agreed on… Or once the typical divorce cat-fight starts… then this present pattern isn’t healthy.

Sit down over a cup of good coffee and think it through; Is the pain and cost of having your WW around these days more than the benefits it might bring in getting an acceptable settlement? If the answer is yes then tolerate it but keep the pressure ongoing on the divorce progressing.

Do you need to be in the house these “family” evenings? Why not be out next time she drops by. Go out next Saturday evening and leave her with the kids.



"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
Dawn58
Member
Member # 37656
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, February 11th (Tuesday)

Hi Coda,

Just read your post, boy, did it hit home. I did not have children with my WS, thank goodness. But I did so relate to your process, hoping for reconciliation, then coming to the realization that it is not going to happen. I prayed that my marriage would work out but he never showed any sign of remorse. The thought of divorce devastated me back then, now, I accept it and want it now.

It's been 14 months since Dday. Mediation was suppose to happen in October but was postponed due to a medical emergency of the retired judge. Has been set for April.

He is hiding money, his attorney is putting up smoke screens and he's really being a bastard. I have been through two attorneys, finally found one who will fight for me.

He and the OW got engaged last summer. She has moved into the house we bought together. That hurts but am coming to the thought that the two of them deserve each other. She's after his money and he's after the next narcissistic supply. She will be his fourth wife, he's cheated on all the previous wives. I did not know his track record coming into this marriage.

So, the good news is I am feeling stronger. I still have my moments (still don't understand why he did what he did) but am grateful he is no longer in my life. I have my own life now. I am free to do what I please. I am finding my happiness now, I found my smile and my laugh again. My home has honesty, integrity and peace now. No more lies...no more abuse...no more trying to please someone else. I managed to keep up with my studies and will graduate this June.

I have a son from my first marriage, he's an adult. He has absolutely no respect for my STBX and has severed all ties with him. My son loved him dearly but that all changed on Dday. My son just graduated college, my niece got married and had a baby. So many good things have happened this year and STBX was not a part of it.

You are teaching your children self esteem, respect and honesty. I know it is hard. You are strong and you are a good Father.

Hugs!


I got into the marriage, because I loved him. I got out of the marriage, because I love me.

Posts: 487 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Southern California
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 12:37 AM, February 12th (Wednesday)

Her coming home really doesnt bother me anymore. And im trying to keep the peace during the divorce. So im avoiding getting into any battles. Her mood actually seems more irritable than mine recently. Ive been calm and cool. I just hope the divorce goes smoothly. I already spent $7000.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, February 12th (Wednesday)

Seems like your selfish wife is assuming she can get you back at any time if things don't work out with OM in her trial 'marriage'. The petition for a divorce is irrelevant to her, since she thinks the decision whether to reconcile is hers alone.

If this is true then she really is in control of the situation. She gets to choose which guy she will spend her life with. Until you reach the stage where you KNOW that you would not reconcile no matter how hard she pleaded, then you are in the very sad situation of being the puppet and guess who gets to jerk the strings.

If this divorce drag out for another few months it may very well be that your WW will decide to reconcile; having exhausted the passion of the affair, together with the children having difficulty accepting the OM as a potential stepfather. You have given her reason to believe that you will be agreeable to reconciliation too; therein lies the reason for her current arrogance.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, February 12th (Wednesday)

I'm fine if she thinks she can reconcile anytime. I'll let her think that. I have doubts she will ever regret or be remorseful though. But if that happens, all the more painful it will be for her when she realizes I'm really gone. I am past the point of no return with the divorce. Even now, I notice that my thoughts are focusing on how I get the best divorce settlement. I used to think, how can I win her love back.

By the way, she hasn't introduced the kids to OM yet. When she visits them, its always at our home. So I am with the kids all the time, whether she is there or not.

I have no idea whats going on with the A. I don't ask anymore. I guess I don't really care.
OM can have her sorry ass.

[This message edited by coda87 at 12:59 PM, February 12th (Wednesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, February 12th (Wednesday)

By the way, she hasn't introduced the kids to OM yet.

I would think that she would have introduced the kids to the OM weeks ago. If she is sure OM is the one she is going to be with, then getting the children's 'approval' is one of the first things she needs to focus on. Nevertheless I would doubt things are going to work out with the OM - they seldom do. Affairs borne of dishonesty are on shaky ground from the start, and as soon as familiarity sets in one of the two cheaters is going to question their decisions and the tremendous damage they have caused.

About time some of the pain went their way. Selfish, narcissistic bastards.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, February 12th (Wednesday)

Wow coda, I can hear the detachment and distance in your statements. Good on you!


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4203 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, February 14th (Friday)

It's been pretty much total withdrawal by both of us. No talking except when necessary. We don't even really say hi/bye anymore either. I've gone dark on her.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, February 15th (Saturday)

You will never get any justice out of this. Sometimes, the world just isn't a fair place.

All you can do is work on yourself. It's Coda's and Coda's kids time right now.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2114 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, February 15th (Saturday)

Yes, it just doesn't seem fair. I guess that's life. I hope one day my wife realizes what she is giving up. But she may not, or may not admit it.

I am moving on. Trying to look forward to being single again.

I bought flowers for OMW yesterday for Valentines Day. Not because I wanted her to be my valentine. I just wanted to do something nice for someone (not my WW) on valentines. OMW was very appreciative (her WH didn't get her anything obviously). Special days are tough when your are separated or going through D.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
kalimata
Member
Member # 42104
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, February 16th (Sunday)

Hi Coda:

I just wanted to warn you about 'rebound' relationships after experiencing the devastation you just went through.

BE VERY CAREFUL in getting involved with OMW. I know you said that you didn't mean anything by giving OMW flowers, but I'm not so sure she will take it the same way.

Think of how your kids will see it. I suggest to STAY AWAY FROM OMW.

Wait a few months after the D is final. Take a deep breath then start dating. Don't even think about it now until the D is final.


Posts: 191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: USA
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 11:58 PM, February 16th (Sunday)

Thanks for the warning, but I'm not attracted to the OMW. She has been very supportive and a great source of missing info about the AP and what he is up to. But that's about it between us. I'm pretty sure she is starting another relationship already.
The valentines thing was more for me to feel good about doing something nice.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, February 17th (Monday)

Coda

That was very nice sending flowers to her.

Please leave the bill home on your kitchen table this weekend!!!

I am glad you are being strong and thinking about your future.

I have one question.

Has your wife spoken to her mother/parents yet?

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, February 17th (Monday)

Only her mother is still alive. She hasnt talked to her yet. I think she is ashamed.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:05 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

My wife started taking the kids to her condo on Saturday nights. To be honest, it is a nice break as they are with me the other 6 nights of the week.
We stopped pretty much all unnecessary communication.

Once in a while now, I find myself still hoping there is a chance. But then I know its too late now. 2/21 was my six month Dday anniversary. I almost am back to a stable emotional state. I can see the situation from the outside (not just as a BS). And all I can say is what a pity things ended up this way. So much pain, not for just my kids and I, but our families and friends, the OMW and her kids, her family & friends. And I bet even my WW has suffered too, if not from the realization of what she has sacrificed, then from all the mean crap and anger I've dished out her in the several weeks right after Dday. This whole situation is so stupid. I wish I could make my WW see it. But I know she is still in a denial/justification frame of mind.

OMW called me today. Her and AP went to see a counselor to get advice on making their D go more smoothly especially for the kids. She was alarmed at how her husband lied about how much money he makes and their finances, and his threats not to pay for a lawyer if she retained her own attorney. I've told her before and pleaded with her to file for D or Legal Separation to get the legal and financial protection she deserves. She agreed with me that she can't trust her husband.

I'm disappointed with my attorney. Maybe he was just busy the last couple weeks, or I'm obsessively impatient. But he hasn't contacted me in a couple of weeks (his staff has). I want to see some forward progress with the D.

[This message edited by coda87 at 2:08 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

I hope the OMW gets a lawyer.

Her husband is a liar and cheater.

Why on earth would she trust him with the legal and financial end of this raw deal???

I had a friend go through infidelity in her marriage with her husband Coda.

She was well off when she got married and helped her husband finance his own hedge fund in NY City.

She also paid off his schooling earlier in their relationship.

She knew her husband since they were in high school.

Her husband traveled for his company. One night she gets a call from the OW telling her that her H has been cheating with her for over a year and that she is pregnant.

Nice way to find out huh?

Her husband tells her has no money. His lawyer states the same thing in writing. her husband threatens her he will report her cash business to the IRS to make her life difficult during the divorce.

My friend hires a special attorney and accountant. Not only did her husband have millions in multiple bank accounts but he also had taken millions out of her personal account and funneled it into his business making it look like an investment.

He even had illegally taken her name off the their beach house in the Hamptons.

She got everything back including the house after the divorce.

And she knew him since they were 16 years old.

Tell that story to the OMW.

HM

[This message edited by happyman64 at 8:00 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)]


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, February 27th (Thursday)

I heard from my sister that her husband who owns a retail business that also advertises in the AP's magazine, stopped his advertisements. He ran 3 page ads in the front of the magazine ($10,000/mo. in ad fees)and was the magazine's biggest client. Then he called the AP to meet at coffee shop and in a loud voice in front of everyone there he blasted the AP by saying something to the effect of "You fricken betrayed me! You talked shit about me and my family behind my back and how dare you sleep with my brother inlaw's wife!" The AP was speechless and shocked. The funny thing is the AP did talk crap about my sister's husband and told my WW. Then my WW told both my mother and me about it. And we told my sister who told her husband.
Anyway, doesn't really matter but I'm happy to hear some bad karma is already making it's way back to the AP. He deserves it.

Okay, I need advice about my WW. We are separated but she comes to the house Tue Thu nights to see kids/make dinner. Then she comes back Saturday mid-day and takes kids to her place to stay overnight til-Sunday morning. So I basically still see her four days a week. We don't fight, but I guess It does bother me cause I feel like she still is getting the best of both worlds. And she still asks me to help with stuff which and I usually comply.
I've been putting up with it, I think mainly because I want the divorce to go smoothly. So I pretend to be somewhat friendly. But inside I feel deep resentment and anger still. Once the D is final I plan and having as little contact with WW. I think she wants us to be friends and have a good relationship. I don't want to necessarily be enemies and continue to fight forever. But I don't want to have any other relationship (except a co-parent)and as little contact as possible. I'm thinking about telling her to stop coming over. If she wants to see the kids, then just pick them up and leave.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, February 27th (Thursday)

Picking them up and leaving will be for the best for you. The more NC you can have the better. Once divorced its YOUR house. She can only come in if YOU invite her to. I would also change any locks and rescramble the garage door remote at that time too. It really becomes the only way you can start over and begin rebuilding your life without her hanging around every week. Again...these were her choices, not your's.


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1472 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:48 AM, February 28th (Friday)

I had a talk with WW just now. Not about the A. More about how to make the D process go smoothly and what will work for each of us. But from what she said, it really sounds like she is still deeply emotionally attached to the AP. And she said something like, she doesn't think we could reconcile even if we tried, but she is not sure if things will work out with AP either, so it's a hard choice. I didn't argue, I said I know its a tough decision to make. But just I told her, she should just do what she thinks will make her happy. And that for me, I just want to get through the D with the least amount of disruption for our kids (ie me keeping our house, etc).

[This message edited by coda87 at 2:03 AM, February 28th (Friday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:59 AM, February 28th (Friday)

PS - Someone, I think it was Bigger, said that after I expose the A, my WW will say she was thinking about R, but now that I exposed it to everyone, it's nearly impossible. We she basically told me that tonight and added that she will look bad if she tries to R now. Haha! She is following the WW script perfectly. What else should I expect now?


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, February 28th (Friday)

Personally I don't know why you are even engaging with her about this stuff anymore. You gave her many chances to end the A and to R. She wouldn't. You filed papers and still, nothing from her. She still thinks of you as plan B. And honestly I think if she turned to you and said she made a huge mistake, the A is over and I want to come back, you probably would take her back. None of us like this crap and most of us have been through it. But from your conversations with her you haven't really shown her 100% that the marriage is over. You are still being nice to her. You are still allowing her over. Kicked out of the house means that...kicked out of the house. Not come on over and cook dinner for them while I'm still around. She can take them out for dinner or cook at her place. Show her what divorce is. If it is over, then do not engage with her anymore. She is still feeling you out "if my A is over what can I expect?" Your relationship with her would never be the same. The kids will need to get used to the new normalcy she choose.

[This message edited by SeanFLA at 9:08 AM, February 28th (Friday)]


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1472 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
kalimata
Member
Member # 42104
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, February 28th (Friday)

Coda - you need to stop having contact with WW. If she wants to see the kids that is fine, but instead of her coming over twice a week, tell her the exact time to come and make sure you are out of the house before she gets there. Tell her what time to leave so that way you don't see her when you get back.

Same thing for Sat visits. Avoid seeing her face to face as much as possible. No contact except for kids. Suggest that all contact be kept via text message or email only. Avoid any verbal discussions or agreements with her.

Stay friendly with her until the D is done however. She may eventually be remorseful, but it is better to have it once the D is over. Once she sees you dating and going out with hotter and younger women than her, she will flip. This will make her jealous. If you really want to rub it in her face you could offer her the chance to DATE YOU after the D is final, but on your terms. However I would hold off on dating until after the D is final.

Keep strong my man.


Posts: 191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: USA
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, February 28th (Friday)

I really don't want to have contact with my WW. But I need to talk to her to move along the D. Otherwise she will just let things stay status quo and let the D drag on.
She is the one bringing up the talk about the A now. I try not to respond too much or get into a fight (easy to do). I just need to endure it until the D is finalized, then I don't have to be so nice or have much contact with her.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Commanche1
Member
Member # 39692
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, February 28th (Friday)

Coda87, the affair is still all about her, she hasn't hit bottom, hasn't had to face reality. no need to inform her that you two won't be friends or that the door has closed on reconciliation. that can be her surprise when the divorce is done, just be prepared when it all goes south on her or when she finds you moving on and dating.

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2013
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:40 PM, February 28th (Friday)

I agree. Time to end all contact. Yep, she'll be pissed. What will she do? Divorce you?

She is the one bringing up the talk about the A now

That's just some cold shit.

N/C = no new hurts

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3163 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, February 28th (Friday)

I think she still thinks I would R if she wanted to. But I am past that point. My goal now is to get through the divorce with the best deal for me and my kids.

I stopped telling her about how I feel many weeks ago. I guess I can try to not be around on Tue/Thu/Sat when she comes to see the kids. I hate being away from my kids though. I know in a few months time, I will only get to see them half as much. So time with them now seems more precious.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, March 3rd (Monday)

I've exposed my WW's affair months ago. First to OMW, then to our family and friends. Only now she is bringing it up frequently saying things like, I made it harder for her to reconcile now that I told everyone about it. And all these friends & family trying to contact her is another hassle she has to deal with. And that our relationship is between the two of us, not everyone else. I'm wondering if exposing was the right thing to do now.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, March 3rd (Monday)

And that our relationship is between the two of us, not everyone else.

Here is your reply to that madness:

OH REALLY! And fucking the OM is not bringing a third party into our relationship?!?


Talk about delusional wayward speak!


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1144 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, March 3rd (Monday)

And that our relationship is between the two of us, not everyone else. I'm wondering if exposing was the right thing to do now.

Absolutely, it was the right thing to do. Your *relationship* wasn't just between the two of you, was it. She's blameshifting big time. Affairs thrive in the dark of deception. She's just pissed that you shined the light of day on her.

I made it harder for her to reconcile now that I told everyone about it.

Nope, she made it impossible to stay married to an unrepentant WW.

Coda, please, please......there's not too many cases than yours that illustrate the benefits of N/C giving no new hurts. Please stop talking to her about anything other than kids and finance. She can play you like a fiddle. She should know how, she installed the strings.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3163 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, March 3rd (Monday)

I made it harder for her to reconcile now that I told everyone about it.
Blame the BS for the A. Blame the BS for not being able to R.
Wow...you are like one of the most powerful people in the world.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4082 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, March 3rd (Monday)

Exposing the A was the right thing to do.

How your WW deals with the fallout of her own actions is up to her. You don't -- can't actually -- control that.

She needs to get to a place where she is ready to accept personal responsibility.

The A is real, it happened. It's your life and you need a support system. We all do. We turn to those around us for support. This is one situation where not only you couldn't turn to your wife for support, you needed support to live with her horrible choices.

Forgive yourself for telling others. It's OK, it's normal, it's what we do when we're in unbelievable pain.

Stay strong.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 509 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Believe24
New Member
Member # 42660
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, March 3rd (Monday)

I had the same situation with no remorse (no genuine remorse)from my lying and cheating WH. He said some of the right things, but there was no desperation to keep us together. I later figured out that it was because half of his energy was devoted to keeping homewrecker on the back burner. I have done a lot of reading and it seems the level of remorse really can be indicative of future paths.


When you betray somebody else, you also betray yourself. – Isaac Bashevis Singer

Posts: 2 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: Nashville
kalimata
Member
Member # 42104
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Cody - Exposure was definitely the right thing to do. Tell her that back in the 1600s she would have been brandished with a Scarlet Letter A on her blouse and forced to wear it everyday!

Posts: 191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: USA
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

Checking in with you brother. How are you doing?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3163 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

Of course she would have liked to keep the affair secret. Then she would have been able to keep her options open until she decided who she wanted to be with.

By disclosing her affair you took control out of her hands and forced her to face the consequences of her actions earlier than she would have wished.

I agree with you, she still thinks you would reconcile if she requested. Conceited, arrogant and narcissistic; what a blend. Just keep away from her toxicity; for your own sake.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:34 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

She said she would have told everyone what happened after we got divorced. Yeah right.

I have a question for anyone that went through this. If you did not put up with your WW/WH affair and went through with a divorce, did you feel relieved after? I wonder it I will feel that. Or will it just be more of the same as I feel now?
I keep thinking getting a divorce will be like pulling out a rotten tooth. It will hurt, but relief will quickly follow. Is that what I can expect? Am I wrong?


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Heath
Member
Member # 28992
Default  Posted: 3:17 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Hi there Coda. Sorry you are going through this.

Firstly I wanted to say that I am happier today than I have been in well over a decade. There is a lot of hope. I believe that your happiest days can still be in front of you. It's a choice.

I think my exWW wanted me to fight for her/win her back from the OM or something to that effect. Instead I cut down as much contact with her as possible, which she didn't like at all.
You see even in the middle of the hell I was going through, I felt that I was worth far too much to be caught up with her toxicity. So I withdrew from her.

The first couple of years were immensely painful. There was a lot of crying and times of massive distress. To be honest, I was dealing with the death of a marriage that I cared deeply about and that I considered a life time commitment, but that I also knew was now dead beyond my ability to resurrect.

The fantastic part about being a human is our ability to overcome. In the middle of my mourning, there was no way I could imagine ever feeling anything other than hopelessly broken. Now I feel happier than at any time during my marriage. It was my teenage years that I was last this happy, and I am being 100% serious.

Life is too short to deal with toxic people don't you think?

Infidelity is such a horrible thing to experience, but the upside for me was that I was now given a second chance at life. I was painfully released from someone toxic and after the pain had subsided, it was so good to be free from her and to feel so alive.



"It's only after we've lost everything that we are free to do anything'.

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:04 AM, March 15th (Saturday)

I can't believe almost seven months since day. In the last two weeks I've not talked to or seen my WW for more than 10 mins. I do feel better. I've been going out with friends and OMs wife. I do think of my WW sometimes. For some reason I feel pity for her. I know she is still stuck on the fence. She still thinks she even has a choice. But I have already made it and I don't think she realizes that. Even if she had a choice, both will result in great pain and sadness for her. I can't help her anymore.

[This message edited by coda87 at 2:05 AM, March 15th (Saturday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, March 16th (Sunday)

Congratulations Coda.

I am glad you are feeling stronger.

Only now she is bringing it up frequently saying things like, I made it harder for her to reconcile now that I told everyone about it.

You should point out to your wife the only person that made it harder for her is herself.

You need to turn her around to face the mirror. Then tell her to take a good look at herself. Tell her that she is looking at the problem...

And that our relationship is between the two of us, not everyone else. I'm wondering if exposing was the right thing to do now.

You should ask her that if our relationship was between the two of us then why did she bring a third into our marriage?

You need to ask her why she opened up your marriage to someone outside of your marriage without asking you first???

Get that Divorce Coda.

Your wife needs to feel consequences before she will ever be worth dating; If ever worth dating...

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, March 17th (Monday)

I've not talked to or seen my WW for more than 10 mins.
Weird huh. But the times they are a'changin'. You are getting a glimpse of your 'new normal'.

I do feel better.
Thank goodness! NC= no new hurts.

I've been going out with friends and OMs wife.
WHOA...your going out with OMW?? Was she a friend before your WW A with her WH?

Gently now~
Your WW inserted (pun intended) the AP into your lives. Please try not to traffic with his BW. Some contact is good...another pair of eyes to monitor the situation. But hanging out with the OBS may not be healthy.

At some point you will have to put the whole toxic experience behind you for your mental health.

The OBS should be booted to the curb along with the rest of the nasty scenario. Please consider this for your own well being.

Take care and protect your heart Coda.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1144 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, March 17th (Monday)

I've not talked to or seen my WW for more than 10 mins.
Weird huh. But the times they are a'changin'. You are getting a glimpse of your 'new normal'.

I do feel better.
Thank goodness! NC= no new hurts.

I've been going out with friends and OMs wife.
WHOA...your going out with OMW?? Was she a friend before your WW A with her WH?

Gently now~
Your WW inserted (pun intended) the AP into your lives. Please try not to traffic with his BW. Some contact is good...another pair of eyes to monitor the situation. But hanging out with the OBS may not be healthy.

At some point you will have to put the whole toxic experience behind you for your mental health.

The OBS should be booted to the curb along with the rest of the nasty scenario. Please consider this for your own well being.

Take care and protect your heart Coda.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1144 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, March 24th (Monday)

WW finally talked to her mother. I heard this from my mother who has been in contact with my WW's mother. WW said she wanted to reconcile but now that I told everyone she can't. This is the same excuse she gave me the last time I talked to her. She also told her mother that she doesn't plan to marry the OM because it would be awkward with our 3 children and his 2 kids.

Then my mother called last night and said that my WW met with her for a couple hours last night. I wasn't expecting this. Basically WW told my mother the same thing she told her own mother above. She also said that she doesn't want to fight about the divorce because of the legal cost. But she feels she needs more half of the assets to survive.

So I guess this is the end of my marriage. Now it's just a matter of trying to salvage whatever I can from this disaster.

What bugs me the most is that my wife said she wanted to reconcile but can't now because I exposed it to too many people. Is that just another justification on her part? It makes me regret exposing.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, March 24th (Monday)

Coda,
So what she‘s basically saying is that she can’t be married to you because you involved other people into your marriage…

Duh? What?
Can’t you see the irony in her statement?

About her feeling she needs more than half the assets…
She can feel whatever she wants. I KNOW you have always had the interest of the children in mind. Just keep your steady path.

IF you feel that reconciliation is still possible (and I have ALWAYS maintained that it’s YOUR call and nobody’s else) then you could get that message across. You could tell your mom and her mom that you are totally 100% certain that IF you hadn’t exposed then she would still be having an affair. You could let them both know that IF she meets your requirements R could be possible. But you should definitely let them also know that of two evils then getting out of the marriage beats the heck out of remaining with an unfaithful wife.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
meplusfour
Member
Member # 38958
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, March 24th (Monday)

coda87, your WW is still blaming and using you as an excuse for her problems. She's still in the fog. If she truly wanted to R with you, the last thing she would be worried about is what other people think. The only opinion that she would be concerned about is yours and she would be doing everything in her power to rehabilitate her credibility and your trust in her. Do not regret exposing her, she is showing you who she really is.

Bigger is right (as he usually is). Respond to your mother and her mother exactly as he has said.


BW (me)42
WH 44
3 daughters, 1 son
Married 10 years, together 13
DDay 3/14/2013, four year PA
In R
"Sometimes you have to accept the fact that certain things will never go back to the way they used to be."

Posts: 392 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Canada
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, March 24th (Monday)

What is sad is that your selfish wife has caused you so much pain and I suspect you would still take her back.

By saying she cannot reconcile because you told family and friends is a way of getting back at you; causing you some more misery. If you examine the statement it is ridiculous; if she wanted you back then folks would be pleased for the both of you if you reconciled.

She is angry because you upset her nice convenient world [a steady marriage and a lover on the side]. Now she is uncertain about the commitment from him and her own personal future. She knows you still care so she is dangling reconciliation in front of you saying, "this could have been yours if you hadn't blabbed". Just trying to punish you for taking control of your relationship. She is probably more pissed about you filing for divorce; that really has broken the family and exposed her to a possible lonely life in an apartment.

She is afraid Coda, and you are the most convenient target to attack. Prepare for more; the knives are out.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
frankier
Member
Member # 33901
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, March 24th (Monday)

Coda87 - I have been following your story, even though I don't believe I ever posted on your thread.

A couple of things:

1) if she really wanted to reconcile, she would be putting her pride aside and focus on you and what needed to be done to make it work.
2) is it possible that she is now talking to her mother and your mother hoping that maybe that would talk to you and go and beg her to reconcile, so she becomes the "prize" instead of you.

I would think that it is you and not your wife the one who should be reluctant to reconcile to avoid embarrassment and humiliation after having outed her.

Regardless, it seems to me that your wife is full of pride and sense of entitlement. Neither bodes well for a good reconciliation and, possibly, set you up for another betrayal. If she really wants you, she would move mountains and not care an iota about what people think of her while diving into reconciliation.

Best of luck to you.


Me BS 48
Her WS 39
DDay 7/5/10 1/yr EA/PA
DS1 12 DS2 8

Posts: 124 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: ChiLand
LifeisCrazy
Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, March 24th (Monday)

By saying she cannot reconcile because you told family and friends is a way of getting back at you; causing you some more misery. If you examine the statement it is ridiculous; if she wanted you back then folks would be pleased for the both of you if you reconciled.

As usual, OK Now hits the nail on the head.

In general, friends and family just want us to be happy. Think about your best friend, or sibling. What do you want for them? What would you say if you found out about infidelity in one of their marriages? You'd tell them, "Look I just want for you guys to be happy."

Same holds true for you. Everyone that you told really doesn't care all that much - except for you to both to figure out what you want and to be happy. If you reconcile, they'll move past it.

Your wife is not "there" yet. Remorseful spouses don't give a damn what others think. Parents, coworkers, friends - they are all put on the backburner as the remorse takes precedence and the overwhelming desire to reconcile moves forward.

Your wife hasn't decided yet - a horrible place for you to remain and a place that you CANNOT stay. YOU need to shift the balance. YOU need to take control back. YOU need to set your own life in motion... regardless of which way she turns.

She wants more than half the assets? Who cares what she wants?? She doesn't think she can reconcile after exposure? Who cares? SHE has chosen the position she is in and she has had an out - it's called reconciliation. But she still wants it on her terms.

She is showing you who she is and where her allegiances lie. End the madness and stop the crazy train.

You can do it.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2013
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, March 24th (Monday)

Does anyone have any idea why she talked to my mother? I am suprised by that. Not sure what she gains. Telling my mother what she wants in the divorce settlement doesn't really matter. It's not up to my mom. Is my WW trying to reduce her own guilt?


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:17 PM, March 24th (Monday)

It maybe that enormity of what she has done, breaking up a family of 5, is beginning to hit home. There's no way the OM is going to take on the responsibility of 3 extra kids he isn't familiar with.

I like the comment from frankier; your wife is so full of pride and vanity that she may want a type of reconciliation where she shows no remorse, but you continue living together as a family. Hey, she may even give up the OM if you ask her nicely.
Meanwhile she is talking to your mother, hoping your mom may persuade you to suggest reconciliation. She has too much pride to ask for it herself; not after the humiliation she has dished out.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, March 24th (Monday)

Coda
You do not need to give what she wants any thought at all . You need to give her as little as possible as her reward for what she has put you through. She is now the problem of the OM and when that fizzles out she will begin to really realize what she has done. Stay strong Coda. You are gaining the upper hand here and don't be pressured by any one to reconcile on her terms or you will find yourself back where you were when all this started.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, March 24th (Monday)

You have got to stop second-guessing yourself. It will eat you alive.

I know that you would still like to reconcile---there is nothing wrong with that. The only problem is that your WW is NOT remorseful. She is still attempting to hold the power in your relationship. Just the mentioning that she needs "more than half", is her way of attempting to maintain control.

--She would have reconciled "if" you didn't mess things up.

--She is having marriage discussions with your mother, and exposing your "blame".

--She needs more than what is fair in assets to survive.

Does there appear to be anything wrong with the above statements?

You need to continue to work on yourself. If she really wanted back in the marriage, believe me---you would be the first to know. That pride and vanity of hers would be long gone---replaced with a new humbling that you never would have imagined. Like others have mentioned, she would do anything and everything to attempt to win you back.

Remember the saying, to not listen to words, but pay attention to actions.

What is she DOING that makes you think that she wants to reconcile?


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2114 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:59 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

More drama. I had little contact and minimal communcation from WW, on purpose for the last 4 weeks. But I get a somewhat panicky text from her tonight about how my mother is misinforming her mother about her intentions. And it is pissing her mother off. I am not sure who she meant her mother is angry with, her or me and my mom. Also i found out the reason she went to talk to my mother last night was to set things straight with her. Apparently that didn't work, so now I have to control my own mother, and tell her to stop misinforming my WW's mother. I actually had nothing to do with this. Then she says, her mom is not well and its my fault her blood pressure is high and she is pissed.

I probably should have not responded, but I said I didn't talk to her mother and barely to my mother since Feb. In fact I didnt even know the two were communicating until I visited my mother last week.
I said if she has a problem with my mother, go talk to her herself.

And then she said something that kinda hit me hard, because it might partially true. She said that I tried too hard to win her back right after D-day and that if I told her I wanted a divorce right after, she may have ended the affair earlier and tried to reconcile. I tried to hard and pushed her into APs arms. Is this just more bullshit, blameshifting, mind manipulation. I think it is but I still think there is some truth.
If I could go back to D-day, i would have remained calm, not showed her how devastated I was, tell her I want a divorce, and see an attorney the next day to start the process. I would not even offer an hope of reconciliation until I saw real remorse. I feel dumb for not being strong and doing just that.

I finally said, no more arguing. I won't respond to text's of this nature. I'll only respond to texts having to do with our kids or moving forward our divorce.

[This message edited by coda87 at 4:01 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

Coda,

No Contact=No new hurts.

I know that children are involved, but stay out of the drama.

And then she said something that kinda hit me hard, because it might partially true. She said that I tried too hard to win her back right after D-day and that if I told her I wanted a divorce right after, she may have ended the affair earlier and tried to reconcile. I tried to hard and pushed her into APs arms. Is this just more bullshit, blameshifting, mind manipulation. I think it is but I still think there is some truth.

Let me answer this or you: This is undisputable manipulation.

Reread that quote. The only thing real in it is that you tried HARD to save your marriage. Who wouldn't? The only one who wouldn't try hard, is someone who doesn't want the marriage. Just the fact that you are fighting to get to a better mental place, shows how much emphasis you put on your marriage, while she systematically destroyed it.

Stop listening to her craziness. And please, STOP believing any of her horseshit. She is still trying to screw with your mind. And someday, when you distance yourself from this, you are going to look back, and be pissed at how she is behaving at this point. And when you get even further out, you will eventually start to pity the way that she behaved. After all, her behavior is simply pathetic.

I'm pissed for you, Coda. I can see straight through the bullshit. She hasn't accepted one shred of blame for the deterioration of your marriage. She has actually blamed you for handling HER AFFAIR poorly...and that is why she can't reconcile. Isn't that crazy enough for you?

Remember, don't get sucked into her drama. If she wants reconciliation, she will SHOW you, not TELL you.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2114 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
frankier
Member
Member # 33901
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

Coda87 - Her last communication with you just shows one thing, in my opinion.
She realized that she screwed up royally and wants to get back together. However, she is waiting for you to beg her so she will always have the upper hand.

I would suggest that you have a conversation with her outlining, very calmly and as a matter of fact for her, where you stand.

You would have preferred to stay together, but her actions, vis a vis the lack of remorse and respect for you and the family (including kids) after DDay, pushed you toward a divorce path to safeguard you and your kids. Even if it will not be the easiest thing on earth, you are ready to go forward without her and that in order for you and your kids to start rebuilding, she needs to stop the drama and grow up. This means stopping texting about gossip, bickering, and similaria.

Please make sure you don't let her drive the conversation. Ask her to please listen without interrupting what you are saying.

There is a remote possibility that, after such a conversation, she will start to see the "light" and start thinking about how to fix things. Then, it would be up to you how to proceed. However, it is possible that she chooses to continue to be self-absorbed and uncaring about your needs as a divorcee to be left alone to heal. In that case, just keep going about your path of detachment and focus on your kids. And please... no favors when it comes to splitting of assets. The law will decide. She deserves no special consideration.

Good luck!


Me BS 48
Her WS 39
DDay 7/5/10 1/yr EA/PA
DS1 12 DS2 8

Posts: 124 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: ChiLand
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

Coda,

More bull shit from WW. You reacted like a normal person after D Day, and now she is telling you more of what YOU did wrong. What about the fact that remains being that she banged another man and is still refusing to stop being in contact with him. Who gives a crap at this point what you did or did not do wrong. The only mistake you made was in taking too long to get to where you are now.
And reject this nonsense that it is your fault about her Mom. If she had not screwed another man, her Mom's blood pressure would be fine. Is she worried about your blood pressure????


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, March 25th (Tuesday)

Coda,

The reason she‘s talking to you mother is not the one you think.
It’s well known practice (intentional or not) that when you want to get a message across to someone you aren’t talking to you do so indirectly through an intermediary. She’s telling your mom because she doesn’t want to address the issues through you. She’s hoping your mom gets the message to you and that you respond correctly. When she thinks your mom isn’t getting the message across… she texts you.

She’s unravelling. She’s realizing the enormity of the consequences of her decisions. Remember the train journey comparison I made way back in the beginning? Well… she decided not to get aboard and now she realizes the train has pulled out of the station. Heck – it’s even gathering speed and moving fast out of her reach.

Right now – emotionally regarding the marriage – she’s about where you were a couple of months ago. At that time you still thought the divorce wouldn’t finalize. That there would be some miracle solution that would save everything. In your case you hoped you would wake up to her crying and begging for another chance, open for being totally honest and remorseful. Well… she never did that and you have moved on. In her case I can only speculate on what she’s waiting for. She seems to realize OM is a dead end, she seems to be grasping that there will be economic implications…

Look – I am extremely pro-reconciliation. I still believe that IF you wanted to R and IF she came to you willing to R on the CORRECT basis then you two could work things out. But I think you have become enough of a realist to see that EVERYTHING has to line up. At the moment it’s like you might have 2 out of 5 Powerball numbers; it’s not enough for the jackpot. You can wish all you want but reality is what it is.

She NEEDS to argue with you. She NEEDS to feed her emotions. Fact is when all calms down she realizes her situation is of HER making. So if you had thrown her out on d-day she would claim the opposite of what she’s saying now. If you hadn’t told anyone it would be something else… She needs an argument to reaffirm to herself what an asshole you are and why the divorce is therefore OK.

Go back to what I suggested about arguments way back: Don’t participate! If she is worried about your mom’s perception of her then AT MOST you answer that since you two are divorcing then your mom won’t be an integral part of her life for much more, so mom’s view on her isn’t really of any importance. Main thing is never to feed her need to have reasons to hate you.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
Commanche1
Member
Member # 39692
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, March 25th (Tuesday)

"she needs more half of the assets to survive." Maybe she needs to talk to her boyfriend about what she needs to survive, That is not your problem, She's not going to marry OM as that would be awkward, looks like she has made some poor choices, she is fishing for support or interest, If you still wanted to save your Marriage nothing wrong with sending her a list of non- negotiable Requirements so there is no misunderstanding. or just let her flounder as she is clueless

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2013
k9lover1
Member
Member # 8531
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, March 25th (Tuesday)

In Hawaii do they have both a contested and a non-contested court calendar?

are you even scheduled for a court hearing or is your attorney and hers trying to "work out the financials" first. Trust me on this, you may be better off and it might be cheaper to just schedule for a contested calendar and let the judge decide.


D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8115 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, March 25th (Tuesday)

Coda I just want to chime in here, for the first time.

Your WW is now blaming you for not being manipulative enough after Dday? Seriously? For being honest about your feelings you "pushed" her into the AP's arms? That is such bs that it hurts my teeth.

Sure, sometimes we realize afterwards that we perhaps should have played the "game" differently. But for her to BLAME you for not playing the game better is ridiculous and blameshifting of the worst sort.

I would be very careful right now. I agree with the other posters. She is manipulating you because she feels you slipping out of her control.

Do not let her make you feel badly about how you behaved; as Bigger said, if you chose a different option she would be criticizing that.

Stay strong.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1815 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, March 25th (Tuesday)

It's your fault her mother has high blood pressure. It's your fault she talked to your mother and your mother talked to her mother. It's your fault she' ran to the AP because you loved her too much. It's your fault, it's your fault, it's your fault.

I disagree with those who think she's finally realizing what she's done. This woman hasn't realized shit. She's been blame shifting her whole life and this is nothing new. I'd be willing to bet if you went back through your history, she NEVER took responsibility for ANYTHING. Problems at work- the bosses fault or someone's out to get her. Problems with her marriage- he did too much or he didn't do enough. Problems with her children- they don't know how to behave because of...(insert everyone else but her here). It's always been someone else's fault when things don't go her way. And she's been the great hero of the story when everything is going the way she wants.


Stop talking to her. Period. Unless this woman sends a message that says "I caused all these issues that I now have to deal with and I'm sorry" you're wasting time dealing with her at all. Until she consistently takes responsibility for her behavior, nothing with her will change and you'll be dealing with the same thing for the rest of your life. What I'd be focusing on is helping your kids take responsibility for their own actions because her example teaches them that everyone else is responsible when things go wrong and it's okay to do whatever you want to make yourself happy even if it makes everyone else around you miserable. Her attitude of entitlement will be contagious without some damage control.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 5:16 PM, March 25th (Tuesday)]


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4261 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 5:44 AM, March 26th (Wednesday)

All i know is that my WW has reached a new level of irrationality and inconsideration. She definitely tried to pick a fight with me. And I almost got fully drawn into it before i realized there is no point in arguing.

Dont worry everyone, im sticking to my guns now. There is no backing down anymore. I have no desire to R. D is my only way out of this and I know it.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:12 AM, March 26th (Wednesday)

Its just what everyone is saying. Unless your wife drops her extreme arrogance and stops blaming you for everything that goes wrong in her life, talking things over with her is pointless. She is delusional and irrational.

She won't and can't get off her pedestal. Too much pride. I think she will now drag out this divorce by putting every obstacle in the way and demanding extra assets and compensation. Just be patient and keep the whole thing moving. One day you will be rid of her and her narcissism.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, March 31st (Monday)

My WW seems angry now and trying to pick fights with me again. She texted me to check if I fed the dogs. I wasn't able to respond for about an hour. During that time she texted me several times, saying crap like ,did I feed them or not?, the dogs are living things (implying I don't care), then she said I'm cold when it comes to the dogs and that shows what kind of person I am. Omg give me a break! Like our children, she left our dogs for me to take care of. I admit I am not as much of a dog person as my wife, but I've taken care of them since she left. I was almost tempted to defend myself, but I just texted back that I did feed the dogs.

Still no response from her about my offer for the divorce decree. It's been a month now. So my attorney drafted one and will just send it directly to her attorney for a response.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, March 31st (Monday)

Isn't it interesting that such devices as smartphones are such enabling tools for A's. The WS practically live their lives around such devices, oblivious to the fact that most people aren't plugged into these damned things 24\7.

When you look at her ridiculous text dialogue, it speaks volumes of self centered behavior. You have better things to do, like real life, taking care of business, getting a D process rolling, than sitting around with a smartphone waiting breathlessly for some AP to send you words of validation, or directing drama with a pair of thumbs. Say, isn't that what teens do?

Anyway, good job responding in short to the point answer, then crickets. She is pissed because you now have the power if, when, and how to respond.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 615 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, March 31st (Monday)

She dumps the dogs on you and complains when you don't feed them on her schedule? All part of her anger that everything has not gone right in her life; OM is not cooperating and you filing for divorce, which is just an exercise in loss.

When she feels miserable someones going to get it; you and the children obviously. Apparently not the dogs.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
twisted
Member
Member # 8873
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, March 31st (Monday)

I apologize for the big smile I got when I was catching up on your updates when I read:

And she said something like, she doesn't think we could reconcile even if we tried, but she is not sure if things will work out with AP either, so it's a hard choice.

I know it's not funny, but I would have bit my tongue in half trying not to "help her with a choice". I know you have to play nice because of the kids and pending divorce, but I'm a vindictive bastard at heart.


"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Oklahoma
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, April 2nd (Wednesday)

Mother in Law is not returning my text msgs or emails? My WW did finally contact her mother. I don't know what she told her. Initially MIL seemed to be an ally. Maybe my WW lied to her mother. My mother also contacted MIL. I found out MIL has lung cancer and going through chemo. So maybe she just doesn't want to deal with this now. My messages to her were just to the effect of "everything ok with you"?

I signed a draft divorce decree with terms that I think are fair. My atty will send to WW's attorney soon.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Coda,

Divorce – even the most amicable ones – create changes in relationships that are connected to the marriage. Your MIL relationship with you will change, and chances are she doesn’t have much of a clue as to your role in her future life.
It’s OK to expect your friends to take sides per se. Not necessarily beneficial but chances are they will take sides one way or the other. But if you expect her family to take sides… well… expect them to side with her. It’s not necessarily a sign of support for the infidelity, more a sign of support to your wife no matter what. Sort of love the sinner, hate the sin.

You can impact your role with MIL. Talk to her. She’s going to be part of your life anyway as your kid’s grandmother and you can interact with her without expecting her to shun her daughter or mourn you as her SIL.
With the slight history we have I would even suggest you reach out to her and assure her that you are there for her while she undergoes her treatment. That irrespective of how things go between WW and you then MIL can count on your support.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:54 AM, April 7th (Monday)

I found out from OMW that AP makes $33k per month.
I know it shouldn't matter. But that's way more than I make (I'm make 6 figures but not that much). And it's a blow to my ego and makes me think no wonder my WW decided to go with OM. Even after having to pay alimony and child support, he still will have ample left over income to support my WW. She wouldn't even have to work.
Now I remember some of the things my wife implied about having to work, and our finances. It makes sense now. He is probably lavishing her with nice gifts, maybe even helping out with cash here and there. Fuck.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, April 7th (Monday)

If he has all that money why is he going to waste it on a woman with kids hanging around her neck; he is going to play the field. He will soon be relatively free of family commitments, why should he take on a whole barrel of new obligations by marrying your STBXW? Thats whats she's hoping for and I don't think she will get her wishes fulfilled. She can sense this, hence her angry, ratty behavior.

Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
twisted
Member
Member # 8873
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, April 7th (Monday)

Even after having to pay alimony and child support, he still will have ample left over income to support my WW. She wouldn't even have to work.

Sounds like a win for you, let him support her, and his old wife and family. If you can get out with just some child support and work out custody, you'll be looking good. You'll be free of a life choking issue in your life, the AP gets a cheating woman, an angry ex, a gaggle of confused kids and all the bills.
If it's going to happen, let's take a walk on the sunny side of the street.


"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Oklahoma
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, April 7th (Monday)

I remember some of the things my wife implied about having to work, and our finances. It makes sense now. He is probably lavishing her with nice gifts, maybe even helping out with cash here and there.

So she's willing to put out for money??? Hmmmm......

Better off without her brother. Now you know her true colors.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3163 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, April 7th (Monday)

Even after having to pay alimony and child support, he still will have ample left over income to support my WW. She wouldn't even have to work.

Meh, 33k/month supports the lifestyle, before the A. That will change significantly once he takes on more than he bargained for, just like OK Now and twisted described.

Besides, if that's all your WW cares about then good riddance. There's way more to value in life than $$$.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 615 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 2:55 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)

My attorney finally sent WWs attorney my offer to settle the divorce. I basically offered the same thing to my WW about 5 weeks ago. But no response from her. He also made a special type of legal offer where if we end up going to trial and my WW does not end up with anything better than what I offered, then she has to pay my attorney fees for going to trial. Seems like a pressure tactic to me, but my attorney recommended it so I went along with it. We will see what happens.

Also, the last week or so, WW has been more decent an even polite in our limited communications regarding the kids and other necessary things. No more calling me a dog hater etc. And she is using more please/thank yous. Maybe she is just over the crazy crap that went on between her mother and my mother.

OMW called a second attorney firm to do an initial consultation. So sounds like she is ready to file soon.

[This message edited by coda87 at 2:57 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)

Be prepared for your WW to drag her feet with regards to the divorce. It does seem apparent she doesn't want it.
Conclusions:
1] The OM isn't going to marry her and has probably told her this.
2] She can see an end to this affair. The romance, mystery and excitement are gone, replaced with cold reality. What about the children; OM's and hers?
3] As a result getting divorced from you offers her no advantage. She is then a single mother with kids to raise, living in an apartment, eternally worrying about finances.
4] If you meet someone then she has to watch while you move on with your life and find new happiness.
5] She is probably disillusioned with men. They don't want commitment with a woman with 3 children, they just want sex. Thats no surprise, she'll meet plenty of married guys looking for excitement.
6] She knows she has destroyed your relationship, but even so staying married to you offers her lots of material advantages over being single.

Expect more foot-dragging. She f*cked up and knows it.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)

Does OM present lifestyle support OMW theory that OM makes 33k a month?
If your WW fell for OM because of his cash… well… there is a well-known term for women that sell themselves for money…

Please Coda take care not to replace your present relationship with your wife with divorce – as in making the divorce process your future relationship with WW. I have seen dozens of cases here on SI where the divorce process becomes a long argument over non-issues. If you can then distance yourself as much as possible from the non-important issues; move on with life and keep WW at a distance. Don’t enter arguments, let your attorney handle the key issues – the issues you WANT handled. Be goal- oriented.
Divorce is the process of determining the MINIMUM amount of interaction a couple need to have – most often determined by co-parenting needs. After d you two won’t be sharing Thanksgiving, summer holidays or Sunday dinners.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)

Coda

Bigger is right.

And stop thinking of how many more $$$ he makes more than you. Next you will be comparing dick sizes.

None of those are good reasons for a divorce. You know that.We know that.

Your wife was selfish.

Your wife is selfish.

Infidelity and the lies that go with it are selfish acts.

Sadly her and the om's selfishness affects both families....

Be strong. Focus on you and your kids.

HM



Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
staystrong101
Member
Member # 41068
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)

So sorry Coda. It's awful, all of this! My perspective is a little different though. I needed to know the truth. I agree with momentintime - better to know the facts and deal with it than to always wonder what really happened. I met my XWH out to talk 4 times after DDAy. He begged me not to D him. I told him the only way we could get through this is if he told me the truth. I was willing to try to work things out. Every time we met, he told me "That's it, now I've told you everything." But the next time, more of the story came out. (This is trickle truth??) I knew then that I had no choice but to divorce him. He was lying to me, and still protecting the OW. I knew I could never trust my WH again if he did not come clean and tell me the truth. Our D was final in Jan. I have never regretted my decision to D him. I deserve to find someone who values me, respects me and loves me. I don't want to be with someone who lies to me, cheats on me, and makes a fool of me. My 4 children have all told me, separately, how much they admire me for having the courage to walk away. I know everyone is different, but I'm not sure why someone wouldn't want to know the truth. It's all very painful, but not knowing the details doesn't mean their behavior didn't happen.

Posts: 112 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: United States
staystrong101
Member
Member # 41068
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)

Sorry I posted on the wrong one - my comment was meant for Details, why?

Posts: 112 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: United States
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, April 8th (Tuesday)

OMW showed me their joint tax return for 2013. Salary and Wages was a little over $400k. What is strange is that their lifestyle doesn't seem like a couple that makes that much. They rent (although in a nice condo but not super high end), they drive 2006 volvo/2007 mercedes, their kids go to private school ($20k per student in Hawaii). OMW says OM likes to buy nice things. And I'm sure he has spent money on women, my WW being the latest. But for someone making that much $, I would expect them to own a home in a nice neighborhood, drive nicer cars, own some more property. So I do not know where OM is putting his money. And neither does is wife, since he has kept her in the dark about their finances.

I'm trying to make the D process as quick as possible. She is dragging it out. I have stopped discussing D with her mostly because she refuses to talk much about it or start negotiating. So now I pretty much let my attorney handle it.

[This message edited by coda87 at 1:57 PM, April 8th (Tuesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, April 8th (Tuesday)

Be prepared for your WW to drag her feet with regards to the divorce. It does seem apparent she doesn't want it.
Conclusions:
1] The OM isn't going to marry her and has probably told her this.
2] She can see an end to this affair. The romance, mystery and excitement are gone, replaced with cold reality. What about the children; OM's and hers?
3] As a result getting divorced from you offers her no advantage. She is then a single mother with kids to raise, living in an apartment, eternally worrying about finances.
4] If you meet someone then she has to watch while you move on with your life and find new happiness.
5] She is probably disillusioned with men. They don't want commitment with a woman with 3 children, they just want sex. Thats no surprise, she'll meet plenty of married guys looking for excitement.
6] She knows she has destroyed your relationship, but even so staying married to you offers her lots of material advantages over being single.
Expect more foot-dragging. She f*cked up and knows it.

Very, VERY true! Any or all of the above is happening. This is why YOU have the power now in your situation.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 615 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, April 8th (Tuesday)

I agree with all the points except #5. She maybe be disillusioned with OM, and cheaters. But she has no reason to feel that way about men. I was committed to her and our family, and she knows it. And we know plenty of other families with good husbands (and wives).

This whole situation is just a big Disappointment, waste, and a tragedy. I know she doesn't deserve it but I feel very sorry for her. And I am worried if she is going to be okay. I'll never tell her this now.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, April 25th (Friday)

WW is getting worse. The last 3 months I've been diligent at keeping our communications short and very business like and only when it comes to our kids or the divorce process. But the last few week, WW is frequently sending provoking texts to me.

Earlier this week she said I told the kids she "stole" some bacon she used from our house. And that I shouldn't do that because it's bad for the kids. I never said she stole it. I couldn't resist pointing out her hippocracy, so I texted back saying that she cheated on me and left our family for OM, and that is really bad for the kids.

Then yesterday we had to go to a parent teacher conf. My son was there too. I was not friendly with my wife, but neither was I rude. I basically showed no emotion. After we left she sends me a text about how my behavior was bad and that I should not show our son my feelings and that I should go seek counseling. I felt like texting back, again to point out her hippocracy regarding her own behavior. But I bit my tongue and ignored her.

I did email my attorney a heads up. I'm wondering if she is deliberately trying to piss me off.

It is starting to get a little nasty.

[This message edited by coda87 at 4:11 PM, April 25th (Friday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
frankier
Member
Member # 33901
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, April 25th (Friday)

It sounds like she is after some attention... just keep doing what you are doing and ignore her.

Also, as you suspect, it could be that she is trying to create some sort of trail to show your "abusive" behavior.

Carry a Voice Activated Recorder when interacting with her (make sure it is legal in your state to record conversation without authorization of all teh parties). And kudos to you for informing your lawyer.

Good luck to you!


Me BS 48
Her WS 39
DDay 7/5/10 1/yr EA/PA
DS1 12 DS2 8

Posts: 124 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: ChiLand
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, April 25th (Friday)

They will truly cling to the smallest, saddest, most pathetic things you do as an attempt to gain the elusive (for them) moral high-ground. As if an accusation over bacon or a lack of effusive friendliness at last gives them the advantage they have been seeking for, to prove you are a villain and they are the victim! It would be laughable if it weren't deeply enraging in the moment.

Actually, it's still laughable. Good for you for staying NC. She is just flailing around while your strokes become more assured.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4203 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, April 25th (Friday)

Instead of just leaving this to your attorney, start demanding that your wife accelerate the divorce process. She chose the OM and agreed to separation; she definitely does not love you or desire any physical relationship; why is she dragging her feet?

Just keep at her with reminders that surely this is what she wanted, then why the lack of cooperation? Be blunt; you want this cheating ingrate out of your life so you can move on. Goad her, be aggressive and show her she no longer has any hold over you.

Your failure to do this gives her the impression that you want to drag this out to. Underneath it all you still care; still open to the idea of reconciliation. You can show her that you don't give a damn and want her out of your life ASAP. Just kick up a fuss and demand she cooperates fully with the divorce. You need to understand that she is deliberately slowing this down because it reveals to her that don't really want to divorce either, or you wouldn't put up with her stalling tactics.

When she provokes you tell her to get out of your life, together with a few choice sarcastic comments. She will get the message; you want her gone , like yesterday. I think she will then let go, since you will have finally shown her you truly don't care anymore. You haven't done that yet.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

This is a known pattern when people argue.
It doesn’t really matter what you say: everything and anything will be misunderstood to the worst possible outcome.

So if you reply you can’t reply correctly. If you don’t reply the silence will be seen as provocation.

If you think you should respond then I would do so in a way she really doesn’t expect:
“I’m sorry you perceived my attitude towards you as unfriendly. My goal is that we can be amicable co-parents. To that end I think it’s important we finalize the divorce as quickly as possible so we can both move on.”


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

I did email my attorney a heads up. I'm wondering if she is deliberately trying to piss me off.

It is starting to get a little nasty.

Brother, I like Biggers response:

“I’m sorry you perceived my attitude towards you as unfriendly. My goal is that we can be amicable co-parents. To that end I think it’s important we finalize the divorce as quickly as possible so we can both move on.”

That's the *MOST* conversation you should have with her other than child issues. Every time you respond to her provocations, it can and will be used against you in court. Trust me, BTDT.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3163 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, April 26th (Saturday)

Biggers response is perfect.

Or you could respond with the old tried and true "I am sorry you feel that way".


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, May 5th (Monday)

WW is back to being more cordial again. Not sure of why the change in attitude. It reminds me of how I was after D-day, nice one day, then angry the next. Anyway, I've been polite to her as well.

WW and her attorney did not respond to my divorce settlement offer. So now my attorney is going to file a motion to set, the next step in going to trial to settle this. Unfortunately, this will cost both of us more $. I really wanted to settle this out of court. I do not understand why she doesn't want to cooperate and settle it instead of going to court.

OMW has chosen an attorney to represent her,and is about to file too.

[This message edited by coda87 at 4:58 PM, May 5th (Monday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, May 5th (Monday)

I do not understand why she doesn't want to cooperate and settle it instead of going to court.

Maybe she wants drag it out a little further and get another crumb of the cake she's been eating? Maybe she's getting splinters on her ass from the fence she's sitting on? Maybe the reality of the situation is really settling in her mind? Who knows, but I understand your frustration. She wanted the D but she drags her feet. I'm in the same situation and it has taken a LOT of prodding to get my STBXW and her L to respond. You would think that a wayward that wants D so badly would lead the effort! Just you and your L keep poking away at the process. Her "nicing" you in the final stretch to get you to back off the D is not remorse. Just remember that.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 615 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

Coda
Have you tried asking your wife to look at the settlement? Don’t ask her to argue it or discuss it with you but rather simply state the obvious:
-It’s to both your advantage to move on from the present situation.
-Divorce is the only logical conclusion.
-That negotiating a settlement out of court will save both of you money – money that can then be used in reestablishing a new life.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, May 6th (Tuesday)

Yes, I have asked her that. I even summarized it all on a excel spreadsheet so it is easier to understand the numbers. I did this back in January. At that time we were still talking and we agreed to work out the major issues between the two us, then give it to the attorneys to write it up formally.
I've repeated to her several times that doing it this way we will save on legal costs. And our attorneys will still do a final review.

She is like ostrich with her head in the sand.
The bad part is that the longer this goes on, the less likely I will be able to afford a buyout of our home. I've pretty much depleted most of my cash. I'm racking up credit card debt now to pay my attorney.

I am hoping that starting the process of going to trial will bring her back to the informal negotiating table.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

I talked to my WW yesterday. What started out as another useless argument over the history of who was to blame for what, turned out to be a Truce of sorts.

I asked her to agree to let us both just focus on the divorce and finish it off asap. That we try to be good co-parents and if issues come up with the kids, lets check with each other first before jumping to conclusions. And finally, lets not argue about the past and who is to blame.
She agreed.

I also asked her what is the delay in responding to my divorce settlement offer. She said she gave her lawyer the ok to counter offer on April 7. But he has not prepared the paperwork. Could be a lie, I'm not sure. But she said she will call him today to ask him to hurry up.

I know some of you think I'm still open to reconciliation. And that my wife still thinks she can reconcile if she wanted to. I admint, it was like that several months ago. But I know how I feel now, and I have been very clear with her, I just want to expedite the divorce process and move on. So in our situation, our marriage and the affair will end up in a divorce.

I look back on these past almost 9 months now and I am really disappointed with myself and how I reacted. I should have been stronger, more decisive in the beginning. I regret all the mean crap I have said to my WW. She may have deserved it, I know. But I could have acted with more control, class, and self dignity. Whatever good feelings she still had for me were extinguished by me reacting in a way that reinforced her need to justify to herself that I was not a good husband (so it was okay for her to have the affair). I know her actions and justifications are wrong. But it all comes down to perspective. I could have guided her back to me. Instead I pushed her away.

Oh well, at least I've come out of this learning so much more than when I started. I can see a light at the end of this dark period. Thank you all for your help and advice. What a crazy ride is has been. Time for me to get off the rollercoaster and get on with a normal and happy life.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

A month to review/revise a divorce judgment? I'm a lawyer, and recognize that as bullshit. There is one strong possibility, however, which is that she hasn't paid her lawyer. Hmmmmm....

Or, she's stalling hoping you'll "cave" and offer a better deal. Rule #1: never negotiate against yourself.

Send your attorney a note or email asking why the paperwork isn't complete for you to review in almost six weeks. Ask if he/she can't call the other lawyer who may not have the paperwork yet.

The Pope abolished Limbo as Catholic doctrine. You, however, are proving him WRONG -- Limbo exists and you're stuck in it for reasons you had NOTHING to do with. And I mean legal Limbo, not marriage Limbo.

Maybe things aren't 100% fine in Happyland? That could explain her recent change of attitude towards you.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 4:55 PM, May 8th (Thursday)]


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

Yep, the delay seems like BS. But I can't tell if its my WW or her attorney.

I did email my attorney about my wife waiting for her lawyer to write up the counter offer documents.

I am 99% certain, my wife does not to reconcile with me regardless of what happens with AP. She didn't want to reconcile right after DDay, and certainly doesnt want to now after all that has happened Not only that, I don't want to be married to her anymore.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday)

About three weeks ago, I finally got a counter offer from my WWs attorney. Of course it is in her favor but at least I know how far apart we are now. But then, the same day, her attorney withdraws the counter offer. How's that? I couldn't resist asking my WW what the heck is going on. She said she thought I would get upset. But I am not sure what was the real reason.

The good thing is that we are pretty close on custody issues. So my attorney is trying to formally agree on the custody issues. Then he will file to set a date for trial. So I'm just waiting again.

Most of the time, I'm in the frame of mind where I making the best decision with the total shitty situation I've been dealt. I much prefer to have this attitude. But once in a while, I wonder if I am doing to right thing. Then I think of how crappy WW treated me, and I regain my resolve.

In the meantime, OMW filed for D. OM got served and their D looks like it will be pretty nasty. OM is using a Jack of All Trades type attorney. OMW is using same law firm as me, specialists in Family Law. I know I shouldnt think this way, but I will have a big smile on my face if she takes him to the cleaners. He makes $400k per year, she doesnt work, I think she will be fine

Aloha,

Coda

[This message edited by coda87 at 7:18 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday)

Good to hear you are nearing a resolution to the divorce.
Did your WW withdraw the offer at a similar time as the OM was served? Just wondering if there is a connection there…

Coda – Back when the Titanic sank I can imagine some cold, wretched person sitting in a crammed lifeboat feeling miserable about being in that situation. I am also certain that same person realized that considering the situation and the options available then that cold, miserable lifeboat was his ticket to the future. Hang on – it does get better.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, June 4th (Wednesday)

No the AP was served just last week. My WW submitted and withdrew her offer about 2-3 weeks ago.
My gut feeling is my WW is not sure what to do. Also she is better off financially being separated than when we divorce. I still pay for most of our expenses. I watch the kids 5-6 nights per week. She has alot of free time to see AP and do what she wants. So the status quo is more comfortable for her. Or maybe like me, the reality of getting D is too much to face and she just needs time to get used to it.

Anyway I sent an email to my lawyer saying how disappointed I am this is taking so long.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, June 4th (Wednesday)

Coda, good to see you!

I still pay for most of our expenses. I watch the kids 5-6 nights per week

Please PLEASE tell me you're documenting this!


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3163 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, June 11th (Wednesday)

Finally got a court date to hear my motion to set. This is basically a hearing to see if court agrees that we are not able settle privately and that we need to go to trial. The family court is so backed up, the court date is not until Sept 4. Ugh...

WW is being is still being mean about everything. Trying to pick fights with me even now. Its hard to let someone keep taking little jabs at you and not hit back.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Ohmyword
New Member
Member # 43684
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, June 12th (Thursday)

Read your entire thread, sir. Horrible why to spend the last months. For that I'm sorry. But..
Its hard to let someone keep taking little jabs at you and not hit back.

...don't give her the satisfaction.

Also, there is life after this crap storm. Keep the faith!


Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, June 15th (Sunday)

Coda

I just wanted to wish you a Happy fathers Day.

Today is about you and your kids.

I hope you can forget about the Ex for a little while today.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, June 15th (Sunday)

All you can do is press on and end this destroyed marriage ASAP. She is behaving nastily because she is nasty and mean because thats a consequence of her personalty. She is now starting to realize that she is no longer the spouse with the mandate on whether to end the marriage or not. No longer in control and calling the shots.

Don't need to wonder why she is being unpleasant and vicious; she's not getting her own way and is finding out that after all her 'sacrifice' OM isn't the answer to her prayers.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
blindsided14
Member
Member # 43266
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, June 15th (Sunday)

Happy Father's Day Coda. Stay strong for you and the kids. This too shall pass.


I guess it's game on . . .

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2014
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:41 AM, June 16th (Monday)

Thanks everyone. I went to dinner with my kids and my mom.

I'm slowly figuring out the best way for me to feel better is to ignore my WW. If we didnt have kids that would be easier.

Just have to play it cool til 9/4 when we go to court to see if the judge agrees we have to settle this by going to trial. But I have a feeling we will be forced to go to professional mediation first.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 3:19 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

Okay, several people here and IRL predicted this might happen. After all these months of delaying the D process by refusing to negotiate, and my recent move to finally go to court, my WW initiated a conversation with me yesterday. To make a long story short, it sounds to me like she is having second thoughts about D and she is uncertain that is what she really wants/the best thing for her. She asked me what I wanted. At first I thought she meant, what I wanted out of the D setttlement, but then I realized she meant, do I really want to D. I told her that all of her actions up to this point, and for my own well being, I have no choice but to D. Then she starts talking about why we cant reconcile. First, I told too many people. Second, I told the OMW, so now my WW and the AP can't go back to their families because OMW will know that is what happened (and OMW filed for D recently too). I only said I dont understand and who cares what other people think, if we were to R. Then she says she wanted to tell me back in May, that she was having second thoughts. But,because I was being mean, she never got the chance, or that I spoiled it by being fighting agian. I didnt want to say too much about what I was feeling. But I did ask her questions, like does she thing D is the best thing for her. She said she still doesnt know. So I do not know what to think now and I am confused.

The good thing is that she said she will basically agree to my D settlement offer so that I can keep the house (so me and the kids do not have to move). Our attorney's were working on setting up a 4way mtg soon to try and negotiate again. I told her and she agreed that we should go forward with the meeting.

So what guys/gals? Is this another delay tactic from my WW? Is she trying to work up some sense of hope for me so I delay the D. I gave up trying to R several months ago and put the process in high gear. Why is she telling me this now? Do I continue the same course as I have the last few months. Do I try to talk to her some more? Should I even consider anything she says at this point?
Am I just an idiot fool? My head is telling me to keep going with D process. If she wants to try and R, then she should ask me, and I will be the one who decides this time. I dont think I want to but I feel sorry for her. And why to do I feel guilty?

Ugh.

[This message edited by coda87 at 3:25 AM, June 26th (Thursday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Dyokemm
Member
Member # 40254
Default  Posted: 4:31 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

Coda,

I think your WW is upset to see that you are pushing for this D to be completed ASAP.

Whether its because she still loves you or is losing her Plan B is impossible to tell...probably a combination of both.

Regardless, she is realizing that she is on the verge of losing you forever.

However, she is still too prideful to stop blameshifting, show remorse, and beg for a chance at R.

I think she may truly want it...I suspect fantasyland with POSOM hasn't turned out to be the fairy tale she thought it would be.

But right now I don't see her pride allowing her to beg you for another chance.

Be strong and stay the course...after all she has done, if your WW cannot even humble herself enough to beg you for forgiveness and a shot at R, then you would be wasting your time to try to work on the M with her.


Posts: 58 | Registered: Aug 2013
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:38 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

Be strong and stay the course...after all she has done, if your WW cannot even humble herself enough to beg you for forgiveness and a shot at R, then you would be wasting your time to try to work on the M with her.

That says it all right there.

Coda, besides taking a hostile approach to you, what difference has there been in all this time? She is still blaming you as to why she can't reconcile? YOU told other people, YOU told the OM's wife, YOU exposed her dirty secret. And for those reasons...which you are 100% to blame in her mind...YOU have killed your marriage.

I don't see one effing difference out of her from where I am sitting.

Keep following through with the D. She has given you NOTHING to work with. For crying out loud, she is STILL WITH THE OM. How do you reconcile with that?


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2114 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

She cannot accept that she was the one who screwed up. Lack of R is YOUR fault? No. The lack of R is due to the fact that she cannot see herself, really see herself,,as the one who chose to destroy the M, destroy your ability to trust her, etc. without such a realization, and remorse for such, you could wait forever for R. I guess you made rug sweeping impossible. Which was a good idea.

You decided on a course of action. Good for you. You have stuck with that course of action. Good for you. That course of action doesn't meet her desires. Too bad.

Tell her since OM wil soon be free as a bird, she is free to take her complaints to him. Both of them will have lots of free time.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

Your WW is still up there on the pedestal, wanting you to ask her for reconciliation since she is still too proud to request for it herself. However she is not going to beg for reconciliation; she is going to ask for a convenient resumption of the marriage, until at some time in the future she can find another guy to initiate another affair with. Maybe when the kids are older and she is in a more financially secure position.

There is no remorse or even regret; its just that divorce right now would be very stressful. There would be an upheaval in the children's lives, money problems and a lack of companionship and status. She obviously realizes the OM can't be relied on, whereas she may not respect you, but you are very safe and reliable.

Myself I would not contemplate her insulting insinuation that you should suggest a reconciliation, which she would consider in spite of your 'meanness" and outing her affair to the other BS. Perhaps she also expects an apology from you first? This lady is completely unbalanced.

If you insist on considering reconciliation, then at least wait until after the divorce. Then it would be a fresh start. I am pretty sure your wife wouldn't do this since she has no love or respect for you; she just wants the convenience of marriage for as long as it suits her. You have a chance to end your misery in the next few months; if you get sucked back into this dysfunctional relationship you are in for more pain. Guaranteed.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
BeingNaive
Member
Member # 30652
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

But I did ask her questions, like does she thing D is the best thing for her. She said she still doesnt know.

What that says to me is that she wants things to stay as they are. A divorce means her lifestyle would change due to no longer having you to support her at all. If nothing would change with a divorce, she'd be pushing it through so quickly you'd be surprised.

I'm sorry to say that, but she has not changed one bit. She hasn't taken any action to find out what allowed her to have an A, to make amends to you, or to fight for your marriage. She went along with seeing the AP, blaming you for everything, and leaving you to take care of kids/dogs/bills.

I don't see what could be gained by you if you do not continue with the divorce.


Posts: 174 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Michigan
SpecialK
Member
Member # 42372
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

Whatever good feelings she still had for me were extinguished by me reacting in a way that reinforced her need to justify to herself that I was not a good husband (so it was okay for her to have the affair). I know her actions and justifications are wrong. But it all comes down to perspective. I could have guided her back to me. Instead I pushed her away.

Coda, do you truly believe what you posted? You are still taking the blame for her decisions. I know you have a lot on your plate right now, but before you even think about getting into a new relationship, please get counseling to figure out why you feel like this. Why you are attracted to emotionally abusive women. You may not have been the perfect husband, but you are not to blame one iota for her decision to cheat. period!
Look at it this way if you can. You are married to a woman who is a liar, cheater, narcissist, to name a few. And then you have PAGES AND PAGES of people basically telling you she is blowing smoke up your ass, so who are you going to believe? Someone who has shown you what type of person she is, but you still keep making excuses for and or taking the blame for her actions, or hundreds of people who are looking out for YOUR best interests?


Posts: 364 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Florida
Commanche1
Member
Member # 39692
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, June 26th (Thursday)

Coda, She hasn't hit bottom, she may have the beginning's of regret but not remorse. Would you be willing to reconcile? If so then tell her what your bottom line is, but I'll wager she isn't in for begging and pleading and you're setting yourself up for more heartache.

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2013
Commanche1
Member
Member # 39692
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, June 26th (Thursday)

Coda, She hasn't hit bottom, she may have the beginning's of regret but not remorse. Would you be willing to reconcile? If so then tell her what your bottom line is, but I'll wager she isn't in for begging and pleading and you're setting yourself up for more heartache.

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2013
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, June 26th (Thursday)

I know I am not to blame for the affair. But looking back, I realize I could have handled my reactions better after Dday. I was very angry and I showed it. My WW said sometimes I was so angry she was afraid of me. I said very mean things.

Our unhappy marriage, both of our faults.
The affair - 100% her fault.
I know this.

I will not slow down the D process. If she wants to R, then she will have to ask for it. Then I will decide and set the terms.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:34 AM, June 27th (Friday)

Sounds to me that if your wife does ask for reconciliation [with no apparent remorse] you will agree. You might consider allowing the divorce to go through then reconcile.

Its a test; if your wife does value the marriage she will agree on making a completely fresh start after the divorce. If however she refuses to rebuild under your imposed conditions then you have your answer - she's looking for a marriage of 'convenience'. A security blanket after her affair has disintegrated; continued respectability of marriage; financial security and protection. Lets face it, she doesn't even like you yet she is willing to reconcile?

You need to protect yourself with some guarantee that R will work. At least if you divorce you can easily walk way if it doesn't work out without wasting even more time.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

We met this morning, me and my attorney, my wife and her attorney. It took about 3 hours, but we negotiated and settled the divorce agreement. I will keep the house and buyout her share. We have joint custody of our kids. My laywer wanted us to sign the agreement at the mtg, so he hand wrote the changes, and all of us signed. We will need to sign a clean copy to submit to the court for approval. Once that is done, the D should be finalized in about 4-6 wks (the time it takes for the court to approve the D decree).

I'm relieved the legal battle is pretty much done. But I am honestly disappointed and very sad that things turned out this way. Last night me and my WW talked mostly to prepare for the mtg today. But I asked her if this is what she really wanted. I asked her if the AP was worth giving up her family/marriage. Her answer is she still doesnt know. So I said I can't wait any longer, we will just need to go through with the D. I reminded her one more time, this was not what I wanted, I tried my best to save our marriage, but because she is continuing the A, I have no choice.
To this day, she still won't accept responsibility. She has all these excuses about why we cant reconcile because I did this or that after the A. I am most disappointed because I realize she hasn't learned anything. And there is no chance of reconciliation when she is thinking this way.

I said ok, gave her an hug, said goodbye and we both cried for a while. Really sad. It's finally over. Time to heal now.

[This message edited by coda87 at 7:51 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)]


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Coda,

I am so very sorry you are hurting right now. Some day you will see exactly what she lost. Your reactions and angry words post d-day did NOT cause any of this, and nothing you could or couldn't have done would have changed the outcome.

Be gentle with yourself. You have continued to be a stand up person who acts with dignity and grace in a very tough situation.

Take care.

Swizz


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 571 | Registered: Nov 2010
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Know what Coda?
I‘m glad you are suffering. It shows you care and that you have emotions. And it gives you a point to work from. Now it’s only left to set your sight on a destination.
It’s like setting a broken bone will cause pain, but it’s also the point where the recovery starts.

She has told you already: She can’t decide if she wants the marriage or the affair. She’s had time to decide but still no decision. That in itself IS a decision.
Remember the train-journey comparison? Well – your train is pulling out and starting to pick up speed. You can still see her and she’s standing there on the platform waving with the ticket you got her. Legs still firmly planted on the platform despite having had options to board the train.

I’m going to make some suggestions:
Once the papers are signed then make changes. Remove her from the house. Repaint the foyer as a visible sign for her that changes have been made. Change locks. Make her knock before entering. Make it even clearer than ever that HER choices are moving you away.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
FrmrBH80124
Member
Member # 42967
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Coda,

I'm sorry she couldn't and wouldn't change.

Bigger is right, it's time to heal and move on. You gave her SOOOOOOO many chances to change but she refused.

Time to make a new life for yourself and find someone who wants to be with you no questions asked!


ME - BH 45
Her - XWS 30
D - April 2010 - never looked back and good riddance.
Happily remarried!

Though much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days
moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are


Posts: 187 | Registered: Apr 2014
ckss4
Member
Member # 43691
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

so sorry to hear this...

Posts: 58 | Registered: Jun 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

I agree with Bigger; I'm glad she acted the way she did at the attorney meeting. Now the way forward is clear; no ambiguity, now you can rebuild.

It sounds as if she still has hopes of a life with OM so won't consider reconciliation at this time. Good riddance. I think she would have preferred limbo to the divorce, but realizes she can't remain in this state of indecision when you plainly wish to move on.

Also if you consider the extent of her betrayal and adultery its quite likely that she thinks what she did is unforgivable. When she envisages a future life with you how can she ever deal with her guilt? Only by running away from her 'crime' can she cope with self-recrimination. Its not that she really thinks you have done something unforgivable, its that too much hurt and pain stains your marriage, and by getting divorced she really thinks she doesn't have to deal with the bad things she did. Run away and avoid guilt and accountability. It takes a tough WS to stay and reconcile after such blatant infidelity. Your wife does not possess such courage.


Posts: 1823 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, August 7th (Thursday)

Hi All,

Just an update so you all know how my story ends. Im sure many are curious even though its already certain that my way to survive infidelity is to get divorced.

After the attorney mtg where we settled the divorce terms, my WW delayed another month by not signing the clean copy needed to submit to the court for approval. She finally signed on 8/1. I feel relief. WW recently found out that OMW is using the same attorney as me to represent her. And she is pissed says it makes her feel sick. I dony know why. I said leave me alone. And i dont want to talk, see, or think about her anymore since our divorce is almost finished. She said our marriage was 100% mistake except for our kids. Cruel to the end she is.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, September 15th (Monday)

My lawyer emailed me today. My divorce decree was approved by the court. So its official. I still feel sad about it. In the last few weeks there has been very little communication bewtween xwife and myself. Ive feel resentment toward her. Amd im sure she can sense that. I hate being this way and not sure how to let the negative feelings go. Now its just a matter of going through the process of separating our assets per the decree. I tell myself i made a good effort to try to save our marriage. But i still feel like a failure. I guess time just has to pass and these feelings fade.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
Tren0R201
Member
Member # 39633
Default  Posted: 1:04 AM, September 16th (Tuesday)

Good luck bro. Welcome to the rest of your life. On wards and upwards!!

Posts: 240 | Registered: Jun 2013
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, September 16th (Tuesday)

Coda,

It’s always been clear to me that you wanted to reconcile.

But it’s also very clear that your WW wasn’t willing to reconcile. She was definitely on the fence and she definitely gave you sufficient hope. Just enough to keep your hopes up. But when push came to shove she definitely chose what side of the fence to fall to. And it wasn’t your side. That’s for sure.

So what could you have done differently?
What would have happened if you hadn’t exposed?
What would have happened if you hadn’t filed?
Would your WW still be seeing OM?
Would the affair still be ongoing?
(Is it still ongoing?)

Well… The general rule is that affairs seldom last. Maybe your wife would have ended it with OM. But she would still be in infidelity. She would still think having affairs was OK. The repeat rate of infidelity is terrible… Chances are that IF you had decided to wait this out and IF she had quit with OM then she would only be bidding her time for the next affair.
Is that what you wanted?
Were you willing to make compromises to remain married?

I think you did all you could to encourage her to commit to the marriage. I truly believe that you did everything as correctly as possible. The actions you took - each and every one of them – ALL have a greater chance of ending the affair and turning the WS back than enabling the affair. But in your case it seems the dice always showed the wrong numbers. That’s just plain bad luck.
To me that simply says your WW was already out. No matter what you had offered she would have divorced. Only this way she managed to make you do the dirty work and feel bad about it.

Coda – If you can then simply accept what has happened. Realize that YOU did EVERTYTHING possible to save the marriage. Retrospect might suggest other actions could possibly have given different results but IMHO the end-result seems inevitable.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
Exit Wounds
Member
Member # 32811
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, September 16th (Tuesday)

I just wanted to give you a hug. Congrats on your new found life!

I hope and pray that you and your kids will thrive.


Posts: 2486 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: With my dad...and my dog...
atreides
Member
Member # 44180
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, September 16th (Tuesday)

Well i just read through the whole thread... such a long roller coaster ride. I am amazed at how prideful she was/is, as with what she did... it has always been "her first"

((coda)) kudos for staying your course through all of this.

Keep us updated and all the best.


Posts: 152 | Registered: Jul 2014
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, September 16th (Tuesday)

I tell myself i made a good effort to try to save our marriage. But i still feel like a failure.

You did all the work necessary to save yourself, and your kids, from prolonging a VERY bad situation. You gave her PLENTY of chances to redeem herself, become transparent, fight for the M, own her shit, face her demons and seek help for her brokeness, take the right actions and be proactive to help you heal. But in the end, you suffered through months and months of her attempting to blameshift, projecting her faults on to you, and then "bargaining" her way back into the M. The question you should ask is "why did she want to R in the first place?". If it really was about staying married to you, the above would have happened, if not at least the attempt being made.

You made a good effort. It is SHE that failed. Failed to understand the impact of her betrayal. Failed to have empathy to those affected by here actions. Failed to differentiate between fantasy and reality. Failed to face consequences. Failed ultimately to be authentic. Failed, failed, failed.

Not you, my friend. You dragged yourself forward and out of this shit storm. It's as if being caught in the rough seas during the hurricance. You fight for your life to stay afloat, kept moving your arms and legs to swim to any direction that will take you out of it. You finally find a remote island as refuge, managing to finally drag yourself on to the beach. You're exhausted and worn out. All you need to do now is rest and wait for the remaining storm to pass.

But you know what follows every storm that passes? A gorgeous sunny day and a strong survivor to enjoy it.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 615 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, September 19th (Friday)

My XW is still seeing the OM. I'm trying to go through the steps per the divorce decree and still getting resistance from my XW. She had the nerve to ask me to keep paying for some of the expenses for a few more months. How's that?

OM is going crazy right now because of the pressure of the divorce he is going through now. OMW is using the same lawyer I used. Their D is way more contentious and ugly.

I found out WW and OM were having a PA earlier than I thought. OMW finally read through all the emails/chat session logs that I gave her between my XW and OM (it's in Japanese, so hard for me to read/translate). I also found out that OM tried to pickup a friend of my sister (Honolulu is a small place).

I try to look at the bright side. I'm single gain, still relatively young. My career is going pretty good. I will have a lot of free time since my XW wanted joint custody of our kids.
I'm starting wonder why I wanted to try to save our M in the first place. My feelings toward her now are a mix of pity and resentment.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 4:49 AM, September 20th (Saturday)

Good for you Coda.

What you are going to realize is that your Ex is a very selfish person.

Do yourself a favor. Make her start paying her share of the expenses as per the decree now.

Nice guys finish last.

Do not be a nice guy for your Ex. She does not deserve it Coda.

At all.

She chose the OM who is going through a tough divorce. Oh poor baby.

Screw both of them.

Your focus is on you and the kids only.

As it should be. And when you eventually replace her make it be with someone that is awesome.

You deserve it.

HM


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, September 20th (Saturday)

it's in Japanese, so hard for me to read/translate

Is WW japanese?

Japan is one giant passive aggressive culture. I was born there.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 615 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
coda87
Member
Member # 40669
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, September 23rd (Tuesday)

Yep, WW is Japanese from Japan. So is OM and OMW. I know what you mean. My WW didn't tell me how she felt about our marriage. I was supposed to "read her mind" I guess. Even, when I did ask, I couldn't get a direct answer.


Married 12yrs, known 14
DDay 8/21/13
BH 44
WW/STBXW 41
3 kids 12,10,8

Posts: 127 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Honolulu
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, September 23rd (Tuesday)

You are not a mind reader.

That is why when she asks you to continue to pay her portion of the bills you say "No". Or No thankyou.

And if the OM is under a lot of pressure call his wife and tell her to keep it up.

He deserves a heart attack Coda. It is even better if his BW gives it to him.....


Posts: 970 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
Topic Posts: 395