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User Topic: Figuring out...another lethal plane...
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)

In IC yesterday, we were discussing being in a relationship. How many people, especially men, seek external validation after affairs, how they need others to...well, validate them as men.

I stated that I was the opposite. I require no external validation. I know there is a disconnect between how I look, and how I think I look...but I don't seek others to confirm I am attractive. I guess I don't really care. A wall up, because I never felt attractive. So...a disconnect.

Then discussing my past relationship attempts, and how I haven't been successful, nor...again...do I really care. But she said, "Well, you will be able to discuss things. You give and take. You each have wants/desires and you figure out how that works. You negotiate."

It hit me out of left field that I am clueless. Completely clueless how to be with someone. I realize how manipulated I was in my marriage. If I asked for something, I was put down/ignored. If I suggested something, same thing...ignored/told I was crazy. There was never anything for ME in my marriage. Ever. The manipulation to get me to marry him...then complete disgust/ avoidance from that point forward. For 17 years. I just stopped asking for things for myself.

I keep hearing that fucking asshole in my head and I want him to go away. I am beginning to fear always hearing those things, "You are not worth it. You are crazy. Why can't you just be happy? What is WRONG with you? Men don't like XXXX. I treat you like a fucking princess, its not like I hit you. What? I don't want to go out with you. Married people don't have sex. You are too fat. What am *I* supposed to do with the kids? I need ME time. You are bleeding me dry. "

Over and over...especially if I'm in therapy and she is telling me how it is SUPPOSED to be, it shocks me. How people are supposed to treat each other. Instead of trying to talk to someone about something, I just shut down...still. I have no ability to let someone in.

She keeps saying the right person is going to see me...but I feel like since I am so clueless, I will miss the right guy. They fuck up...I walk away. No patience.

Now, I am back to feeling flat. She said I am holding myself back, but...why? Fear again? I feel like relationships are pointless. There isn't a guy out there who is going to want to deal with the mess ex created, so why bother?

Anniversary is next week. 18. Wow. I generally know that I shut down around this time, but it almost feels like the shutting down is getting more...pronounced. Shouldn't this be getting easier, and not harder?? I feel flat about the anniversary. Last year I was still upset a little...this year...flat.

But I kinda feel flat about everything except school and kids. Then I wonder if I've not tried enough. Like maybe I should force myself to date just to learn how give/take works? Then I'm back to...nah.

Funny, got hit on at Sbux yesterday. Cute lawyer stopped me and we were discussing law school. He was flirting...I knew he was...I left. Why?? In the back of my head I think, "nah...he won't hang. As soon as he knows (insert whatever), he'll walk away. What is the point?".

It's been almost 3 years, people. When does life feel normal? When do the ghosts leave??


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4033 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
abbycadabby
Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)

First off, hugs.

((((cmego))))

It hit me out of left field that I am clueless. Completely clueless how to be with someone. I realize how manipulated I was in my marriage. If I asked for something, I was put down/ignored. If I suggested something, same thing...ignored/told I was crazy. There was never anything for ME in my marriage. Ever. The manipulation to get me to marry him...then complete disgust/ avoidance from that point forward. For 17 years. I just stopped asking for things for myself.

I keep hearing that fucking asshole in my head and I want him to go away. I am beginning to fear always hearing those things, "You are not worth it. You are crazy. Why can't you just be happy? What is WRONG with you? Men don't like XXXX. I treat you like a fucking princess, its not like I hit you. What? I don't want to go out with you. Married people don't have sex. You are too fat. What am *I* supposed to do with the kids? I need ME time. You are bleeding me dry. "

I'm sorry you were treated this way. I think underneath that flatness there is a lot of hurt. You did not deserve the abuse that you experienced.

The short answer is, you heal, little by little. You hopefully get into another relationship that's better. That teaches you what the give and take is all about. You learn that you ARE worthy. You are not what your ex said you are. You love yourself.

I have a background that is far from perfect. I experienced abuse of various types. My exWH was horrible, and still is. It was an amazing revelation to me when I started dating my SO. He actually communicates. Like a grown up even! He puts up with my more recent and totally out of character crankiness- and loves me anyway. He doesn't talk down to me, control me, or manipulate me. Men like this DO exist.

Idk if any of that helped, but I hope so.

(((cmego)))


Posts: 1211 | Registered: Feb 2010
phmh
Member
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)

(((cmego)))

It takes longer for some people than others. Don't be so hard on yourself!!!

You're doing the right things -- IC, hobbies, kids, etc. Now it just takes time.

I suspect that when you're ready to let someone in and find a good relationship, you'll be shocked at how easy it is.

Just keep going through the flatness and working on yourself. You'll get through it -- you know you will.


Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo


Posts: 3267 | Registered: Dec 2011
million pieces
Member
Member # 27539
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)

Do you have friends in good marriages/relationships? I was/am constantly watching my friends relate to their SOs' and look at the good and the bad. What things I want, other things that I don't.


Me - 42
2 kids, 9 and 11
D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later
Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

Posts: 1231 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: MD
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)

I know a few people in good relationships. Most of my "single girlfriends" have SO's now. The two I'm closest too have had their moments...but have hung together and worked them out.

I have yet to meet a man that is worth it. I would love something organic to happen, but...dunno. OLD doesn't seem right anymore. No one on there that has my interest.

I guess I'll just keep hanging out at Sbux, maybe another cute lawyer will come in and start a conversation. Maybe I'll actually WANT to talk back one day. Maybe I'll flirt back.

I hate feeling flat this far out. I still feel in shock some days. Like...pinching myself..."He is GAY. He has a BOYFRIEND. I am DIVORCED (almost...)."

The further out I'm getting, the more I hold myself back from guys. I just find it strange.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4033 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 6:45 AM, September 12th (Thursday)

If I asked for something, I was put down/ignored. If I suggested something, same thing...ignored/told I was crazy. There was never anything for ME in my marriage. Ever. The manipulation to get me to marry him..
(((hugs)))) I'm so sorry, psychological abuse can do a lot of damage.

I dealt with that also and I am a very strong person, and it STILL took quite a bit of counseling to undo the damage.

I did have an idea of what a healthy relationship is "supposed" to look like though, but I had never been able to find a guy I was attracted to that was able to have one. In the past, I generally went after alpha-males (and every single one of those had some narcissistic qualities).

I waited over a year between the last one and the one I am currently seeing. Right now we have hit a rough spot (I posted about it) and am getting 2 x 4's on why I should dump him, but honestly, he is wonderful to me.

This one DOES listen to me. He totally cares about what I think, how I feel, if I am happy (imagine, a guy caring if I am actually happy!) He is nurturing and kind and gentle. Totally opposite of what I am used to, but we do have to work thru some stuff. Being with him is easy, we get along wonderfully. Dealing with some of the problems and issues that arise because of our pasts is taking some determination and persistence though.

But here is the deal....he has a past, I have a past. Our past DOES affect our present from time to time. I still have financial ties with WS that are not going away any time soon because right now I am having financial difficulties and WS is bipolar and a SA and has a hard time with impulsive spending, so he is paying down his debt, but VERY slowly. I also am coparenting with a diagnosed psychopath.

I figured also that no one out there is going to want to deal with that baggage, but you know what? I am a good person. I have a good heart. I am worth someone investing in, even if they do have to deal with some crap.

And the guy I am with right now feels that way also. He is willing to deal with that crap, and I am willing to deal with his crap. Because we are both working hard towards a better future.

There are good caring guys out there cmego. Sometimes they are hidden a bit or you have to open your eyes to other possibilities than what you would normally be attracted to.

"nah...he won't hang. As soon as he knows (insert whatever), he'll walk away. What is the point
Not true. Actually, I have had several guys want to go out with me and date me seriously. They all know about my past because I am fairly vocal about it. I make jokes about it. I put it out there and that way people can decide beforehand if they want to deal with it or not. There are plenty that will deal.

When does life feel normal?
There's no such thing as normal.
When do the ghosts leave??
When you decide to banish them. When you change the track in your head that is playing over and over about "nah...he won't hang. As soon as he knows (insert whatever), he'll walk away. What is the point?".

What are your positive points? Make a list. If you are having difficulty, make the list on here, we could help you! Come up with 20 positive traits about yourself. Then start going over that list every day. Say it out loud. Remember who you are and who you are in the process of becoming.

There was never anything for ME in my marriage
What do you want out of life? What is important to you? What gives you pleasure, and makes you feel fulfilled inside?

Those are important questions to be able to answer. If you have no clue, start taking quizzes (you can find them online) that help define your personality, your values, your ethics. Those can be a good place to start to help you realize who you are, what is important to you, and how you want to live your life.

When you figure out who you are, you will attract the right guy in your life for where you are in life.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 6:46 AM, September 12th (Thursday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15109 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, September 12th (Thursday)

(((Cmego)))

Posts: 1592 | Registered: Oct 2011
beingmiranda
Member
Member # 32519
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, September 12th (Thursday)

I used to brag how XH treated me like a princess..,.. because HE SAID he treated me like a princess. All along those same lines of he didn't beat me so therefore he treated me like a princess.
There are things with my SO and every once in a while I while just shut down and cry. Little things he does just without me asking or without any prompting that send me reeling. Like, do men actually act this way? Are they really this sincere? I mean I will throw a towel of his in the wash with the rest of the towels and he THANKS me! In ten years of marriage to XH and being the sole doer of his laundry, I never so much as got acknowledgement. It was just expected. Now this one is thanking me for adding his beach towel in with the rest?!! Little things like this often send me spinning.


Me: now 38
Him: up and left for OW
OW: old maid mid thirties with biological clock ticking, desparate for a man.
Divorced the cheater - 8/2011
Married the most AMAZING man - 10/2013

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: NJ
BrokenDaisy
Member
Member # 37063
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, September 14th (Saturday)

(((Cmego))) I can relate to a lot of what you said. Wish I could answer your questions for you and offer more than platitudes or cyber hugs. You deserved better!


Me BxW, him SA NPD WxH
1 wonderful toddler - sole legal custody to me and supervised visitation to xwh.
DDay 01/2012
10/2013 Divorced!!

Posts: 242 | Registered: Oct 2012
Topic Posts: 9