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Wayward Side
User Topic: Destruction/Reasons
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Sad  Posted: 8:39 PM, July 1st (Monday)

My BH has asked me if I wanted to destroy my life and our marriage. He says that if I valued him and our relationship I wouldn't have engaged in such destructive behavior. NEVER throughout my A did I think "Yippee, when this comes out I'll lose my family, friends, and possibly him." Why would I have stayed in something that clearly could have only ended with mass chaos? Did any of you start an affair with intentions on destroying your life and the lives around you?

He keeps asking me the whys, however none of my reasons are good enough - inability to detach from people (male or female), neediness for love and attention especially from men, creating a fantasy family with my AP and family while projecting on to them what I thought I wanted in a marriage/family, trying to fill an empty hole within me that I've never been able to fill. Are these all surface reasons? I believe that whatever final reason(s) I come up with will never be acceptable, because it's never acceptable to cheat. For WS, what was your final reason? For BS, what reason did you finally accept from your WS?


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, July 1st (Monday)

I keep getting "i don't know," "I wasn't thinking," "I'm sorry."

She doesn't know, because it doesn't make sense to her now that she see's what she's done.

I'm guessing that she got complacent, feeling old, enjoyed the attention, probably felt like what I didn't know couldn't hurt me. Implicit in that is that she must not have thought she would get caught. I think after she did it once and got away with it, she figured she could do it more. after all, how could it cause more damage? She didn't think she would get caught and I'm guessing she was planning on stopping once she had enough fun. She definitely affaired down.

If I divorced her now she would never settle for someone like him. He was just there.

Now she's pretty much destroyed. Not by me, but by herself. Not a lot of fun at my house right now.

hope that helps.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 537 | Registered: Mar 2013
sodamnlost
Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, July 1st (Monday)

He says that if I valued him and our relationship I wouldn't have engaged in such destructive behavior.

Gently as can be - he is right. Not thinking it out doesn't mean it's not true. I get the not understanding how deep the pain goes while you are in an A but you can't actually have believed it would help? You may have justified to yourself somehow that it would but deep down, assuming your moral code is affairs are bad - on some level - you KNEW. *THAT* is what he is talking about. You may not have understood the level of the destruction but you surely didn't think an A was a *GOOD* solution to your issues did you?

Saw a quote on a different forum something along the lines of "An affair to fix an unhappy marriage is like taking exlax when you are hungry." Sorry can't remember who's Mom said it.

He keeps asking me the whys, however none of my reasons are good enough

This makes me think you don't fully understand the concept of the why's or his needs for the why's. I hear frustration and defensiveness your post. If I am making you angry right now, maybe sit out a bit and see WHY? Keep digging. It's rough stuff but the rewards are huge.


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, July 1st (Monday)

He keeps asking me the whys, however none of my reasons are good enough

If he keeps asking why, and doesn't want to accept your answers and explanations (his right, obviously), that is possibly his way to keep from having to reinvest in your relationship...and hence put his heart on the line once again. I might be way off the mark there.

Perhaps instead of trying to find a reason he'll latch onto as valid enough, you could say "I can tell you a thousand reasons why the person who I WAS cheated on you. However, the person I AM committed to becoming would rather take a thousand steps which reflect a committment to healing myself, you, and us".

Not sure if that would help any, but it's what came to mind. Good luck. I hope it will get better.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, July 1st (Monday)

If he keeps asking why, and doesn't want to accept your answers and explanations (his right, obviously), that is possibly his way to keep from having to reinvest in your relationship...and hence put his heart on the line once again. I might be way off the mark there.

With all due respect for your opinion, from a BS perspective I think you are off the mark here. I sincerely wanted to know why, I guess in an attempt to make sense of the senseless destruction of my marriage by someone I trusted completely. By someone who I remained faithful to from the day I laid eyes on her.

The problem is that there really is no answer that will satisfy a BS in this situation, but a WS who wants to salvage the marriage has to field these questions as best he or she can and show their spouse that they're willing to work like hell to repair things.

"I can tell you a thousand reasons why the person who I WAS cheated on you. However, the person I AM committed to becoming would rather take a thousand steps which reflect a committment to healing myself, you, and us".

Bingo. You nailed that one, JD.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1351 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
lemony.2008
Member
Member # 20125
Default  Posted: 11:40 PM, July 1st (Monday)

I believe that whatever final reason(s) I come up with will never be acceptable, because it's never acceptable to cheat.

I think that is true.

As a BS, I believe his reasons for cheating/lying boils down to selfishness.

I can tell you a thousand reasons why the person who I WAS cheated on you. However, the person I AM committed to becoming would rather take a thousand steps which reflect a committment to healing myself, you, and us

The trouble for me, as BS, is that if my WS said that to me (and he did say something similar), I don't know when he is the new person who is now going to heal himself etc. Trust is gone and it's hard to believe he will commit to the marriage now. And to me, it is a moot point after infidelity.


Feel the feelings and drop the story. - Pema Chodron


Posts: 2243 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
badchoice
Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 11:55 PM, July 1st (Monday)

For WS, what was your final reason?

I think I got to a lot of whys, and my BW really only accepts one of them.

The one my BW accepts: Simply put, I did it cause I wanted to.

The reasons I have uncovered for me to work on and change myself for the better:
FOO, not knowing how to accept or express true love, not being able to fill that empty hole in my soul, so trying to fill it with outside validation, viewing myself through the eyes of other women, and the list goes on.

All of those reasons set the stage for my decisions leading up to my choice to have the A. All of them made me the selfish person who wanted to have an A instead of just being honest.

I am not sure about your BS, but I know my BW heard my whys as excuses - she understood them, knows that it is great that I understand them, but still felt like I was trying to avoid responsibility. My BW just wanted me to own my decisions and I can understand her logic.

ETA: not sure if this helps you or not.

[This message edited by badchoice at 11:58 PM, July 1st (Monday)]


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 725 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
ItsaClimb
Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 3:53 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

BS here

I can tell you a thousand reasons why the person who I WAS cheated on you. However, the person I AM committed to becoming would rather take a thousand steps which reflect a committment to healing myself, you, and us

^^^ This is something I am having a lot of trouble with at the moment.

I think it would be SO convenient and easy for all of us, BS and WS, if we could simply say that the WH was "another person" when he had the A. I have used that tool myself in the 10+ mths since D-Day... The thing is we have to be honest, my WH is the self-same person who had the A. Yup, it was HIM that did it, THAT man, not some other person, he is still THAT man who did THOSE things to THAT woman... I hate it, but it's true.

There comes a point where I have to accept that fact and reconcile in my head that the man he "was then" and the man he "is now" are in fact one and the same person - the BEHAVIOUR might be different (well I certainly hope so!) he is hopefully working on the issues and flaws that led to the A-behaviour, but he is the same man.

Bottom line is: I think that using the "the man I WAS and the man I AM" line smacks horribly of trying to shirk responsibility and blame-shift a little.

Don't mean to cause offence, but that's my take on it. YMMV.

As far as the Why....

My BH has asked me if I wanted to destroy my life and our marriage. He says that if I valued him and our relationship I wouldn't have engaged in such destructive behavior

^^^ I have asked my WH the same thing. I've wrestled with it. The answer is that at that time he couldn't possibly have valued me the way he should have... it's obvious... if he had valued me above all else, he couldn't have had the A, because lets be honest he knew that when I found out it would hurt me deeply. He valued his selfish desires above me. Fact. I needed to hear him say it.

Did any of you start an affair with intentions on destroying your life and the lives around you?
I don't think that was the reason why any WS started an A. Personally, I think the issue here is accepting responsibility for the consequences of your messed-up decisions more than working out why you did it.

I needed (still need!) to hear my WH take responsibility, instead of (what I perceived to be) him making excuses. I needed him to look me in the eye and say "I didn't value you the way I should have, I didn't protect our marriage the way I should have. I put my selfish needs and desires ahead of you, our children and our marriage. I never gave a thought to what I was throwing away, I never even took the time to consider that what I was doing had the potential to destroy our marriage and our lives. I was selfish, I behaved in a disgusting manner and I have no excuses."

Perhaps that is what your BS is actually after?


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 932 | Registered: Oct 2012
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 6:27 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

This is helpful to read through. Part of my trying to come to grips with and understand my behavior and how it affected my BS is hearing from other BS's. In many cases our "takes" differ. I am listening closely to those differences, discussing them with my BS, and it has been very helpful.

Anyone, WS or BS, who wants to disagree with any of my words or opinions, point out blind spots, suggest alternative ways for me to see, or call me on my bullshit...is helping me in my attempts to learn, change, and grow. I'm thankful for each and every opportunity, and I'm going to stumble and fall ALOT along the way. It just feels good to be trying.

[This message edited by JustDesserts at 6:28 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Did any of you start an affair with intentions on destroying your life and the lives around you?

See below.

NEVER throughout my A did I think "Yippee, when this comes out I'll lose my family, friends, and possibly him."

I did think that, before and during my A, nearly word-for-word (minus the "Yippee", though).

Why would I have stayed in something that clearly could have only ended with mass chaos?

I did, for 5 1/2 months, because I thought the OM was worth it. I knew that I would lose everything---but I thought that being with the OM would "make up for it."

For WS, what was your final reason?

Because I was selfish and I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it because I thought that the end would justify the means, and I thought I could pull it off without getting caught HAVING the A. I thought that I could leave my XH for the OM without anyone actually finding out that it was FOR the OM. Not my brightest thinking.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2089 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

a little threadjack, and I'm sorry.

Heartbroken903, i'm curious. if that was your thinking, since your H divorced you almost immediately, why didn't you do what you wanted? Why didn't you go to the OM? You had your chance.

Again, sorry for the threadjack, but this may help pizzalover too.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 537 | Registered: Mar 2013
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Great question. I'll try to be as succinct as possible so as not to take over PL's thread. I tend to ramble.

I told myself I was being very realistic about the likely outcome and the consequences. I knew I'd likely get caught, even if I blustered that I could get away with it. I knew it would mean D. I knew I'd lose friends & his family; I knew mine would be shocked and horrified and disgusted. All of which, as it happened, did come to pass.

What I didn't factor in, and where the "fantasyland" aspect of my A came into play, was how I'd feel about it when it actually happened. I was devastated. Rocked to the core. I came here to SI 2 days after D-day a sniveling, self-pitying snot-nosed mess. It was gross. It all hit me at once: how low I had sunk. How little integrity I had. How little basic pride I had in myself, that I would basically have an affair pretty much out in the open, advertising myself basically as a slut while wearing a wedding ring and blatantly disrespecting the man who put it on my finger. How I was suddenly exposed to every single person in my life as a liar and an adulterer. How much I would actually miss the life I purported to care nothing about. That was all before confrontation (long story short, I found out that my XH knew about the A while I was at work, before we spoke about it).

And then, I saw what it had done to my XH. Going back to the fantasy affair narrative, I had constructed in my mind a completely different reaction that he would have when this all came to light. Oh, I knew he would be angry; furious even. But I hadn't predicted that he would be so hurt. I saw him cry for only the third time in our relationship; the other two being when his dog died and when his father died. Before (during the A), in my mind it was as if an abstract object---the affair---was causing him pain. All those times I ignored him to text OM, those times I lied to him about where I was, etc.? That was "the affair" that was doing it. It was a self-mind-fuck of a way to absolve myself of responsibility and to avoid blame. It wasn't ME...it was "the affair." Seeing his pain stopped me in my tracks, and I could no longer dodge, deflect, minimize, blameshift. It WAS ME. I had done this. TO HIM. There was nowhere else to look, to point to, to hide behind.

So. Following all that, I had a decision. My M was over; I would be a free woman, as it turned out, in exactly two months and 8 days from D-day (edited to correct the timeframe; apparently I can't add). I could continue with the OM, wrap myself up in the bubble, and see where it led. Or, I could choose differently. They say the definition of insanity is to continue the same behavior while expecting different results. I chose differently.

I didn't want to continue with the OM for 3 main reasons:

1.) I was humiliated and embarrassed at what I had done. I knew this humiliation and embarrassment would continue on, even if our affair became a relationship, because of how it started. I knew it would make a stain that could never be erased. The OM tried to convince me otherwise. "It goes away," he said. "It'll be OK." But I felt otherwise and just couldn't do it.

2.) It would further disrespect my XH and I was D-O-N-E doing that. Many if not most of my immediate post-D-day decisions such as how quickly I would move out, how amicable the D proceedings would be from my end, whom I would tell about why we were divorcing and how much detail I would give, etc. were all made with that in mind. Certainly I would not continue to rub salt in the wound by "riding off into the sunset" with the OM.

3.) I finally got it through my head that the OM was a liar and an interloper and was not and wouldn't be remorseful for it. His only sorrow was that I had been hurt in the whole deal and that was it. He didn't give a crap about my XH---he and our marriage were simply not his problem. I saw him as an opportunist who wanted what he wanted, anyone else be damned. And yes, I was exactly the same way---the difference was, I wanted to change; he did not. And what would happen if we DID embark on our grand love affair of the ages and he decided he wanted someone else? What would stop him from doing the same to me? Nothing, that I saw.

I fear I rambled again, but I hope that provides some insight.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 10:54 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2089 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

thank you for that honest answer.

Speaking as a BS, I can see why your XH decided to reconcile with you.

[This message edited by mike7 at 2:36 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 537 | Registered: Mar 2013
disgust
Member
Member # 34200
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Seeing his pain stopped me in my tracks, and I could no longer dodge, deflect, minimize, blameshift. It WAS ME. I had done this. TO HIM. There was nowhere else to look, to point to, to hide behind.

Not all WSs see this^^^.

Certainly not by WS.

I never got the "why" from my WS and, quite frankly, I don't know if it matters to me anymore.

BSs keep asking why to try and make sense of this mess we've been handed. IMO it will never make sense. Showing him that you are no longer a person capable of causing that destruction will help him reconcile in his own mind with the fact that it really doesn't make sense and never will.

Sorry pizzalover. I don't know if this helped at all.

[This message edited by disgust at 2:37 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]


Posts: 348 | Registered: Dec 2011
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

@heartbroken: You call it rambling. I call it just what the doctor ordered. Thank you for sharing.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Wow this thread blew up while I was busy today! Thanks for all of the feedback. I am going to try to respond as much as possible to the comments. This will be a long answer, I'm sure.

Mike7,

If I divorced her now she would never settle for someone like him. He was just there.

Now she's pretty much destroyed. Not by me, but by herself. Not a lot of fun at my house right now.

I would NEVER settle for someone like my AP. I failed to see, even though it should have been obvious, that if I was with him, he would have done the same thing to me that he did to his BW. He sold out his kids and her to "be with" me, although I am guilty of the same with my BH. I "affaired down" too, since my husband is 100x the man that my AP was. I absolutely destroyed myself and everyone around me. This is all me - there is no one else to blame

Sodamnlost,

Gently as can be - he is right. Not thinking it out doesn't mean it's not true. I get the not understanding how deep the pain goes while you are in an A but you can't actually have believed it would help? You may have justified to yourself somehow that it would but deep down, assuming your moral code is affairs are bad - on some level - you KNEW. *THAT* is what he is talking about. You may not have understood the level of the destruction but you surely didn't think an A was a *GOOD* solution to your issues did you?

I probably realized during the A that none of my problems would solved, but I latched on to a fantasy and I had so much trouble detaching from. When I though about stopping, I didn't know how. My BH says that I just stop letting my AP fuck me or tell my BH about it so he could stop it. I know that makes absolute sense now, but on some level, I probably wanted to continue with the fantasy. I also didn't want anyone to get hurt, which could have been the only result. Denial is a powerful thing. Iknew what I was doing was wrong, but that didn't stop me. Could I have valued us? I thought I valued us, but obviously not enough enough to stop my sick, twisted behavior.


I get that he needs to understand why I became this person who could rain destruction on so many people, especially him. I NEED to understand too. I wasn't trying to be defensive in my statement, sorry if it sounded that way, but I was more trying to say that after digging 5 months in and coming up with reasoning, he either says it's too simple of an explanation or that it doesn't address how I could have hurt my AP's BW since I developed such a dependent, creepy relationship with her and her kids which I equated as loving her. I drives me insane that I can't come up with a satisfactory reason(s) that takes her into account. Any thoughts?

JD,

Perhaps instead of trying to find a reason he'll latch onto as valid enough, you could say "I can tell you a thousand reasons why the person who I WAS cheated on you. However, the person I AM committed to becoming would rather take a thousand steps which reflect a committment to healing myself, you, and us".

^^^^^ I love this statement.

Sal1995

With all due respect for your opinion, from a BS perspective I think you are off the mark here. I sincerely wanted to know why, I guess in an attempt to make sense of the senseless destruction of my marriage by someone I trusted completely. By someone who I remained faithful to from the day I laid eyes on her.

The problem is that there really is no answer that will satisfy a BS in this situation, but a WS who wants to salvage the marriage has to field these questions as best he or she can and show their spouse that they're willing to work like hell to repair things.


I am trying on a daily basis to field questions the best that I can. I know it frustrates my BH to no end when I say "I don't know". But I really don't know. If I knew the answer to something that he was asking, I would say it in a heartbeat. My I don't know's frustrate me a lot, because I was the one who did this so I should know the reasons. I am willing to work like hell to repair things. I genuinely love my BH and want to have a life with him. It hurts me to see the pain I've caused him.

Lemony,

As a BS, I believe his reasons for cheating/lying boils down to selfishness.

Do you think affairs are that simple? I believe I was extremely selfish in my actions, but there has to be more then just selfishness, IMHO.
The trouble for me, as BS, is that if my WS said that to me (and he did say something similar), I don't know when he is the new person who is now going to heal himself etc. Trust is gone and it's hard to believe he will commit to the marriage now. And to me, it is a moot point after infidelity.

Do you believe that reconciliation can't happen?


I need to pause now to do to MC. I will continue later.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

t/j
heartbroken0903, I'm impressed. Your hard work shows. I'm not saying that like my opinion matters....if you know what I mean. Just wanted to say it. I wish all the best for you and your XH.
end t/j

[This message edited by DixieDevastated at 4:27 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Y'all are welcome and thanks for the kind words. I just want to help others, and pay it forward as I've been helped here by others sharing their stories and work.

Sorry for the t/j, Pizzalover.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 4:52 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2089 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
lemony.2008
Member
Member # 20125
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, July 2nd (Tuesday)

Do you think affairs are that simple? I believe I was extremely selfish in my actions, but there has to be more then just selfishness, IMHO.

pizzalover, yes, from my experience, I think so. I think there are many factors but it boils down to selfishness.

Do you believe that reconciliation can't happen?

In my case, it can't because WH is not remorseful. He still blames me for everything. I don't have the experience of having a remorseful spouse who is willing to do the work to heal him/herself and then the marriage. However, I do believe reconciliation is possible if the wayward spouse is remorseful and the betrayed is willing to forgive. (I stuck around for so many years because I know I can forgive, but my WH doesn't want to do the work necessary)


Feel the feelings and drop the story. - Pema Chodron


Posts: 2243 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

This has been posted before, and you may have read it.

http://www.continuingedcourses.net/active/courses/course047.php

It's long. Skip to "THEORY: The Three Types of Infidelity"

Mine was the "Anger/Revenge" type of affair. Delusionally (apparently not a word), I went in figuring I was "owed" an A, and that BH would be mad but surely forgive me. It's common for WSs to fail to consider that our actions will have consequences, as crazy as that sounds.

This may not be my "final" reason, but I'm a CSA survivor and my daughter is now the age (6) I was when that happened. She triggered my unresolved feelings of anger and resentment about the abuse. I dug back through my M to pile on several more (mostly exaggerated) wrongs by BH, and cast him as the source of my unhappiness.

I'm even closer to DDay than you, I think, and I think it's normal for our BSs to ask questions like yours did. And to be angry, and confused. BH asked me on Monday, if my life is so unfulfilling (ETA: that I pursued an escapist fantasy), why don't I leave and find a new one? The flaw in that plan is: wherever I go, I will still be there.

[This message edited by 20WrongsVs1 at 10:23 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1090 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
GraceisGood
Member
Member # 17686
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

Did any of you start an affair with intentions on destroying your life and the lives around you?

My H was not conscious that he was doing this, but sub consciously it is what he was doing. He sees it now. For him, he feared he was not good enough for me and that sooner or later I too would see that and I would either cheat on him or dump him and in his logic it was better to do it to me first. This stems from his foo and situations his parents put him in and their views/values of him.

Ultimately it does boil down to selfishness IMO, because he selfishly put his own wounds and foo issues ahead of our M and our wellbeing because it was where he was most comfortable, it was easy and second nature and in some respects he did not "think" about it at all, not consciously, it all just "happened" because he chose to not think, to not self assess, to not grow, to not mature, to just "be" who he was at that time.


He says that if I valued him and our relationship I wouldn't have engaged in such destructive behavior.

On one level this is true, but on another, the A has nothing to do with the spouse (see my tag line). It is all about the WS, another reason that points to the simple explanation of selfishness which in its simplicity is also deeply complex and that complexity is different for each person.

My H knew it would destroy our M, hence the secrets for so long and the lies. Why lie and keep secrets if you do not fear on some level the reprecussions you know are logical?

BS, what reason did you finally accept from your WS?

For ME, I do not "accept" any reason. I do not feel I have to in order to R. I believe him, I know it is a process for him and I see him moving through the process, I see and experience the changes so that meets part of my qualifications to R. But I do not accept that he could not have worked out his issues in another way. I firmly believe we do not HAVE to cause such destruction to our selves or those in our lives to grow, mature, etc, there are other ways, so I do not "accept", I was born with this quote in my heart and it colors all I experience: Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them.

I do have empathy for his foo and his pain and the lies he grew up with and his wounds. It is that empathy that allowed R, not accepting a reason from H. During R though there have been countless things I have had to accept to R and still things I probably need to that I have not yet, and we are over 5 years out and I have been working it from the beginning.

This is us and our situation, each M and each infidelity are unique IMO, there may be similarities (lies, selfishness, etc) but the whys behind the similarities are not always the same IMO.

Grace


We have a tendency to think the love offered us is a reflection of our worth and value.But in actuality,it's a reflection of the person that is giving it.We love out of who WE are-not because of who the receiver is.At least in terms of real love.TSMF

Posts: 3434 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: how far the east is from the west
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

BS here...all the "whys" i have been given are pretty much a combination in some way of all the ones listed in this thread. but honestly, at the end of the day...not one of them makes me feel any better. he still did that.

i think he if were to say he did it becasue he wanted to, like it, and thought he could get away with it....it might be a little better.

not much though, he still cheated.


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
SoVerySadNow
Member
Member # 36711
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

BS here. The "why" is something I would love to know. I'm delusional enough to think if I know the "why" that another A won't happen since I will know what to watch for.
Not realistic at all, but I stupidly keep my pink bubble all patched up.

Realistically, I know that many (even most?) A's are not one decision, but a long list of small badly directed ones. It's not up to me to prevent the next A, it's up to WH to have correct boundaries. Having said that, I still ask him "Why?" once a week.


Me:BW
Him:WH
D-day(s),after years of TT and Gaslighting was Labor Day Weekend 2012, continuing for a week after. *Dammit! More TT 3/9/13
Really trending toward D- planning about it is my "happy place" now.

Posts: 1289 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Sunny Florida
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, July 4th (Thursday)

i don't think we're really asking "why" - we want to feel safe again and this is just one of the ways we think we can get there.

You search for and give an answer and its not satisfactory because we still don't feel safe. Is there really an answer that someone can give that would make you say "Oh... that makes sense now, I feel so much better."

The thinking is if we know 'why' you did it then we can avoid it in future.

Truth is a BS may never feel safe again no matter what a WS does. Doesn't stop us wanting it, seeking it, begging for it, demanding it.

IMO this is one of the reasons we obsess about the AP. We attribute all sorts of voodoo magic to them which they simply do not possess.

Yet in a weird way we feel safer knowing our WS only cheated because she she totally used witchcraft on him.

I also think lots of us believe a wayward becomes a wayward once they've had an EA/PA. But t goes waaaaay further back than that. Maybe from childhood. I don't think you can pinpoint a single 'why' - its more like a hornets nest of why's.

IMO cheating is a choice made in an environment of choices/behaviour designed to achieve some toxic mechanism or another .

I think you need to stop searching for a magic why and work through your stuff so that you feel safe to you. That's not to say don't keep exploring it - I mean stop expecting that this one magic 'why' is out there.

Work towards a place where you feel safe to yourself.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5527 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Pa9rw
New Member
Member # 37385
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, July 4th (Thursday)

I'm still searching for whys but it tend to just find contributing factors so far.

The biggest why I know so far is "because I had little or no concept of the sheer cruelty and destruction it would bring on my BS, heart and soul"
And now I do.......

Possibly not a proper why but definitely a why not in the future.


Me WH 50
Her BS 51
D-day 9/10/12. 3 day PA oct 07, 4 year PA
nov 08 to sept 12

lies til June 13


Posts: 8 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Uk
DWBH
Member
Member # 35512
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, July 8th (Monday)

PL, you sound SO similar to my W, prolly because the stories are so similar. I do believe you are on the right track though, as I sense remorse (not just regret) in your posts.


Do you think affairs are that simple? I believe I was extremely selfish in my actions, but there has to be more then just selfishness, IMHO.

Yeah, I actually do think it breaks down to this. What isn't simple is the narrative... the story that leads up to the A. But in the end, it really comes down to actions, and what allows those actions to be carried out. As a BS, it took me a while to understand and accept her narrative; her perspective leading up to the actions. I've heard her perspective, and can understand her attitude, her dissatisfaction with our relationship, our practically non-existent communication, her childhood issues, etc.... but really, it was just pure selfish action on her part. Nothing else. And I'm OK with that... at least, as OK as any BS can possibly be with "why".

[This message edited by DWBH at 10:43 AM, July 8th (Monday)]


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, July 8th (Monday)

As cold as this sounds, just as the choice to cheat has nothing to do with the BS neither do the "whys". Those are about us. It's not things you run by your spouse to get buy in and just as many BS's say it's impossible to know the pain of betrayal (I think many do, though. Betrayal is a fact of life for some of us), it is pointless for others to label it.

Selfish? Maybe. Sometimes it's a misdirected attempt to finally "stand your ground". A failed attempt to assert yourself. A "that's it"!!!! That goes horrifically wrong. That is all about us. Our job to dig and see how we need to establish some healthier coping skills. Find tools within our stockpile we've badly misused and hone them to laser precision.

If we're honest we see how our wayward thoughts didn't start with our choices to cheat. We can trace them back and see how we tolerated shit from others and ourselves long before these horrible choices presented themselves. The moving lines. The porous boundaries. The distance we may have placed between ourselves and others...or the enmeshment we've established. 

Some of us can blend so much with those we're with that actions taken by them are felt by us to such an extent it's as if they set our every mood, thought, feeling. When you've melded to that point "how can you hurt me" is a foreign concept. Hurt you? You're me. It's one in the same isn't it? Dear God. 

The opposite (me) can also be true. So detached that hurting another is not really front and center. We've got this so no worries. Assume you've got yourself, or at least you better. I can duck so bet you can too, right? No? Well, better learn or be extremely careful what you toss my way. I'm quite accurate and have stockpiles of ammo. 

Neither successful in going through life without amassing casualties including ourselves. 

Natural reactions aren't always the best. While I get why a BS would want to ask the WS for answers that's never made sense to me at all. I was the victim of a violent crime. I'd never ask the piece of shit "why". He'd be the very LAST person I'd expect truth from. Never asked my ex why he would just go off. Didn't care. Didn't care what my mother or her friends sick little sheared pin was or how it got that way. I just knew it did and that's pretty much all I needed to know.

That, to me, is why detaching is so vital for the BS especially right after dday. You're at your weakest. In shock. Why roll over and expose your belly to the thing that inflicted the blow? Guard. Present a very small target and lick and nurse your wounds. Make sure you're getting food, water, rest, and most importantly, distance from any more injuries. When you're stronger THEN you can interrogate your enemy. Until then, just watch and heal. 

What why would be acceptable anyway? I've found none I've accepted from myself and I've got inside info. I sure wouldn't expect anyone else to buy in. 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Deleted due to messing up quotes. Will repost

[This message edited by pizzalover at 3:10 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Itsaclimb

I needed (still need!) to hear my WH take responsibility, instead of (what I perceived to be) him making excuses. I needed him to look me in the eye and say "I didn't value you the way I should have, I didn't protect our marriage the way I should have. I put my selfish needs and desires ahead of you, our children and our marriage. I never gave a thought to what I was throwing away, I never even took the time to consider that what I was doing had the potential to destroy our marriage and our lives. I was selfish, I behaved in a disgusting manner and I have no excuses."

Perhaps that is what your BS is actually after?

I agree with what you wanted to hear. It's pretty spot on for how I feel now. I was in complete denial to the consequences of my actions. If I could change what I did I would in a heartbeat.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Heartbroken -

No problem about the t/j!


I told myself I was being very realistic about the likely outcome and the consequences. I knew I'd likely get caught, even if I blustered that I could get away with it. I knew it would mean D. I knew I'd lose friends & his family; I knew mine would be shocked and horrified and disgusted. All of which, as it happened, did come to pass.

What I didn't factor in, and where the "fantasyland" aspect of my A came into play, was how I'd feel about it when it actually happened. I was devastated. Rocked to the core. I came here to SI 2 days after D-day a sniveling, self-pitying snot-nosed mess. It was gross. It all hit me at once: how low I had sunk. How little integrity I had. How little basic pride I had in myself, that I would basically have an affair pretty much out in the open, advertising myself basically as a slut while wearing a wedding ring and blatantly disrespecting the man who put it on my finger. How I was suddenly exposed to every single person in my life as a liar and an adulterer

.

Wow. I couldn't have said it better myself. I really had NO IDEA how far reaching the consequences of this A would go. I was living in a fantasyland and D-day blew my world apart. I realized what I threw away and I'm working every day to try to repair my life and my relationships. I'm devastated daily by the look on my BH's face, hearing the pain he is in. He NEVER deserved this. It's hard not only for him to look at me differently, but all the only people in my life who knew me to be a honest person who wouldn't ever cheat.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, July 18th (Thursday)


Do you believe that reconciliation can't happen?
In my case, it can't because WH is not remorseful. He still blames me for everything. I don't have the experience of having a remorseful spouse who is willing to do the work to heal him/herself and then the marriage. However, I do believe reconciliation is possible if the wayward spouse is remorseful and the betrayed is willing to forgive. (I stuck around for so many years because I know I can forgive, but my WH doesn't want to do the work necessary)

Lemony,
I feel that I am remorseful. I believe that MPB can forgive over time. It will be a long hard road. I hope he's willing to walk hand in hand with me.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

...filling the empty hole, trying to seek outside approval, viewing myself through eyes of other people (mostly men). I did have the affair because I wanted to - nobody forced me to do it. I was absolutely selfish. I felt over time very addicted to it, like a drug. While I was in it, I didn't know how to stop it, even though in hindsight, it would have been easy by just revealing it. Now that my world has blown up, I need to start facing the person I've become and it's terrifying. I never wanted to hurt anyone, but obviously that was the only result.

I can relate to this, Pizza. The denial, justification, and rationalization I utilized to say to myself "What you're doing is okay. And you're okay" were off the charts. I'm not sure if I was more lost or more broken. Scarily, epic amounts of both, I'm afraid.



2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
Spideysense
Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

idk if i have anything to contribute to this thread as there have been some great thoughts already posted, however i'm going to throw my two cents in anyway...

As a WS (I am both WS first then BS)....during the time of my As, i had all kinds of "whys" in my head...justifications for my actions..some were why i felt i was entitled to do it...he did this to me, he goes out and doesnt come home, he drinks too much, he doesnt help at home, etc. some were more along the lines of i just didnt think about him..i was always very clear to AP i didnt want to leave my M, didnt want to be resuced and ride off into the sunset...no expectation i would get caught, so my BH would never know, nobody would get hurt, so im having fun, nobodys getting hurt, why not? again i can go on for a long time about issues in my marriage with him with me etc and why i felt justified or at least excused in my behaviors...it hasnt been until i sat down and did the work that i discovered the reason...i was selfish and i wanted to. That is the why, there is no other why. I acted like a spoiled brat that wants what they want when they want it. I didnt think about my H or my kids or my family or my life or any of it, i thought about myself and what spidey wanted to do.

As a BS, i want to know why, why did you let me think we were working on fixing us, we were working it out, you still loved me, why did you let me think all those things when there was another woman in the picture? knowing how devastated and hurt you were when i did it, why did you do the same to me? you could have walked away the hero, everyone wouldve respected your decision to leave your cheating W, but you didnt, you stayed with me, why? so you could become involved with OW? Why not talk to me? why not leave me? why why why?????
I am only about 2 months out from his dday and why is still on my mind a lot. one of the only good things about us both being WS is part of me "gets it" and i have done the work, and what i mean is not in any way that he is justified...he isnt, but what i mean is that i can recognize that no matter how many answers and reasons and apologies my WH gives me, none of them are going to satisfy me. because he was drunk, because he was hurting, because the attention felt nice, while all of those things are probably 100% true...they arent the whys...the why for him is the same as it was for me, because he was being selfish. until he gets that, no reason that he could give me will satisfy me.
my WH has said something similar to an earlier suggestion..."I dont know why I did it, but Im not that person and I will never do it again and I will spend the rest of my life showing you that" ok yes thats nice to hear, its better than hearing him say well yeah i might do it again, but honestly it doesnt do a lot to "fix it" its words...im not that person? I never thought you were that person before, but you were. as was i. so yes i will spend the rest of my life showing my BS that i am not going to behave like that person ever again, but i cant say im not that person anymore..i am still that person. i am still the person who will be overwhelmed, i am still the person that will feel unwanted or unloved if my h behaves in the ways he has in the past, i am still that person that will be flattered that someone else is looking at me or likes me or whatever, i am still that person. What i can say though is that i will never behave like i did before, i will not cross boundaries, i will not lie, i will not sneak, i will not cause harm, i will not disrespect my husband, our marriage, our family. to me thats so much different than im not that person...yes i am.
i dont know if this helped anyone, pizzalover specifically, but it helped me to write it out so maybe thats why i did it...


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Badchoices -

I think I got to a lot of whys, and my BW really only accepts one of them.

The one my BW accepts: Simply put, I did it cause I wanted to.

The reasons I have uncovered for me to work on and change myself for the better:
FOO, not knowing how to accept or express true love, not being able to fill that empty hole in my soul, so trying to fill it with outside validation, viewing myself through the eyes of other women, and the list goes on.

All of those reasons set the stage for my decisions leading up to my choice to have the A. All of them made me the selfish person who wanted to have an A instead of just being honest.

I am not sure about your BS, but I know my BW heard my whys as excuses - she understood them, knows that it is great that I understand them, but still felt like I was trying to avoid responsibility. My BW just wanted me to own my decisions and I can understand her logic.

ETA: not sure if this helps you or not.


I feel like I have a lot of the same issues as you - filling the empty hole, trying to seek outside approval, viewing myself through eyes of other people (mostly men). I did have the affair because I wanted to - nobody forced m to do it. I was absolutely selfish. I felt over time very addicted to it, like a drug. While I was in it, I didn't know how to stop it, even though in hindsight, it would have been easy by just revealing it. Now that my world has blown up, I need to start facing the person I've become and it's terrifying. I never wanted to hurt anyone, but obviously that was the only result.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, July 18th (Thursday)


The biggest why I know so far is "because I had little or no concept of the sheer cruelty and destruction it would bring on my BS, heart and soul"
And now I do.......

^^^^
Yes.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

I also think lots of us believe a wayward becomes a wayward once they've had an EA/PA. But t goes waaaaay further back than that. Maybe from childhood. I don't think you can pinpoint a single 'why' - its more like a hornets nest of why's.

IMO cheating is a choice made in an environment of choices/behaviour designed to achieve some toxic mechanism or another .

I think you need to stop searching for a magic why and work through your stuff so that you feel safe to you. That's not to say don't keep exploring it - I mean stop expecting that this one magic 'why' is out there.

Work towards a place where you feel safe to yourself.

I want to feel safe and be healthy. I want o examine where my wayward behaviors came from - they've probably been there for a long time.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

T/j: 20WrongsVs1
Thank you for that link. It has flipped a switch for me and clarified some things I've been struggling with.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1406 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Why would I have stayed in something that clearly could have only ended with mass chaos?

From a BS perspective, I can tell you that many of us are tormented by questions like this.

I asked my wife what the endgame was. What was the happily-ever-after she envisioned? She had no answer. As far as I can tell her thinking never went beyond the next meeting with the AP.

Just wanted you to know that your husband's question is common, I think all of us struggle with questions like that in the early months. Wish you and your husband the best.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1351 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, July 20th (Saturday)

I asked my wife what the endgame was. What was the happily-ever-after she envisioned? She had no answer. As far as I can tell her thinking never went beyond the next meeting with the AP.

I knew that the affair would never go anywhere. I didn't want to leave MPB and my AP didn't want to leave his wife. I could never envision a life w/o my BH or a life where my AP and his wife weren't together. So why the fuck did I keep destroying my life and his??? This should have been a deterrent, but for some reason it wasn't. I was hooked and addicted.


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, July 20th (Saturday)

 As far as I can tell her thinking never went beyond the next meeting with the AP.

In the moment thinking. It's ironic that concept is mostly a positive one as it limits anxiety, worry, stress. Just live in the moment. It's pushed quite a bit. I don't think it's necessarily healthy nor does it make any sense to me. Life isn't silo's. If I lived in the moment during my childhood I would have killed myself or my mother. It was the understanding that this too shall pass that kept me going. 

The "in the moment" removes critical thought as consequences are never. It will all work out. 

Pizzalover, you seem stuck in this shame loop on hyperdrive. You made these choices. You split the rail. Was it because a true inventory of your circumstances and how you fit in them was too painful or uncomfortable for you? What happens when you really look at things in your life and take stock? 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
pizzalover
Member
Member # 38336
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 20th (Saturday)

Pizzalover, you seem stuck in this shame loop on hyperdrive. You made these choices. You split the rail. Was it because a true inventory of your circumstances and how you fit in them was too painful or uncomfortable for you? What happens when you really look at things in your life and take stock?

I still am in a shame cycle that I can't seem to get out of. When I look at my mistakes and past it makes me very uncomfortable. I have felt shame for as long as I can remember, especially for my sexual past (and now the A). How do you get past the shame??


Repulsed daily by my actions

Me - WW 39
Him - BH 39 (mpb1974)
2 Furrbabies - sweet cats

Met - 8/13/99
Started dating - 9/11/99
Moved in together - 3/03
Engaged - 6/5/09
Married - 8/21/10
D-Day - 1/24/13
Affair started 5/09


Posts: 389 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: PA
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

How do you get past the shame?


i guess you just have to move forward. you can't change the past.

[This message edited by mike7 at 12:34 PM, July 20th (Saturday)]


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 537 | Registered: Mar 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

How do you get past the shame??

In my view, by recognizing your power. Those of us that had less than rosy childhoods are all to familiar with feeling helpless. Some of us, hand raised here, learn to fight back in ways that were within our control. Some of those ways weren't always nice. Enter guilt. Because we're young we don't have the concept of feeling bad for something we did being different from feeling bad for who we are.

Messages other's gave us then were we were worthless or unworthy of love. So often when we grow up we carry that hard coding with us.

We tend to gravitate toward others that confirm this by their thoughts or actions. If we find someone that doesn't we don't believe them.

This is something I've seen quite a bit.

While I've experienced guilt I've never felt shame. I think it's a complete waste of time as I'm the only one that can fix, save, help me so I better have some faith in myself, ffs.

A choice to have an affair, the mechenations behind those choices, the carrying out of those choices are absolute exercises in power. Misdirected power and control, but there none the less.

You have it in you. Just because your experiences with that power haven't always been healthy doesn't mean you stop using it. You learn to use it wisely.

I think many of us tend to diminish ourselves out of fear. Not because of how weak we are but because we know at a core level how strong we are...how much our choices matter. It's, at times, more comforting to think we don't. Then we can go about our business under the radar because people don't care.

A bird, a small in comparison carbon based life form, can bring down a jet liner. We have power. You have it. Use it. You'll find that shame is actually a crutch to keep ourselves in a prison of our own design.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 1:04 PM, July 20th (Saturday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
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