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Reconciliation
User Topic: Big argument- help?
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, July 1st (Monday)

The wife and me had a massive fight last night because of miscommunication- i thought she was going out Monday not Sunday (very trivial I know) it meant I had to change my plans so i got heated and so did she.

It blew up beyond recognition- she brought my family into it and it hurt me so guess what I brought up to hurt her... Oh yeah I brought it all up in fine detail- she actually looked shocked- stunned maybe... She stopped shouting, stared at me then called me pathetic and went out to her sister's. this meant I was panicking all night with my mind racing.

She didnt come home but we work together so I went over to speak and she just told me to get lost.

I dont know what to do now- do I apologise for bringing it up? She's 5 months pregnant so that also whacks me with guilt.

I do regret saying some shit because surely when i agreed to reconcile it doesnt mean i can hang it over her head forever and bring it up as a weapon?

But is she maybe not overreacting? Its pretty fucking clear that i said it purely to hurt after she insulted my Mum!


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, July 1st (Monday)

Are you two in IC? It sounds like there are serious communication problems aside from the infidelity.

It is pretty much expected that in early R, (hell, even in long term R) there are going to be times where the A will be thrown up, I think we have all done it.

For her to insult your family was a pretty low blow also, so IMO, you are both at fault.

But, the very start of the argument was not handled well, and escalated from there. Go to IC/MC and work on this.

That new little baby deserves parents that can get along peacefully.

Do this for your baby if not for yourselves.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7092 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
unfound
Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, July 1st (Monday)

if you feel bad about what you said, then yes, you apologize. that's just good communication.

it's so so easy to whip out the A card in times of stress/anger (6 months is still pretty early on). learning to control that and recognize when a fight is just a fight and that not everything should be looked at through the A glasses is a part of the bs's work in R. learning healthy communication (and arguing) is important work you BOTH need to do in R.

miscommunication can be a mother after the A, and a big trigger for a lot of people. this would be a good time to sit down and talk about it and how it can be avoided int he future.

1-you recognized that you pulled a cheap shot. 2- you feel bad about it. next step????


ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14861 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, July 1st (Monday)

This isn't the first time she has walked out on you during an argument since dday. This is unacceptable. She knew,based on your response the last time she walked out,that you would be worried out of your mind.

She cheated. She needs to own that. if she was "shocked" that you brought it up then that tells me you havent showed her that you're angry about her 3 ONS's. The anger stage doesn't usually hit until the 5th or 6th month. You are allowed to be angry and you are allowed to vent your anger to her.

She dropped a bomb in the middle of your marriage. Walking out because you are angry about it,causing you to panic all night,and then telling you to get lost this morning is all a bunch of bullshit.

Im sorry..but these are not the actions of a remorseful spouse.

Her behavior is emotionally abusive,IMO.

Oh..and ok..she is pregnant. And? That doesn't release her from this mess..that SHE caused. She should be doing what any other WS is expected to be doing if they want to R.

Unless she felt she was in physical danger,what she did was unacceptable.

You need to read the 180. You need to start talking care of YOU.

[This message edited by confused615 at 8:45 AM, July 1st (Monday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7668 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, July 1st (Monday)

We're both in IC and we don't argue often, we get on very well.

I know sometimes I don't listen and that's what's caused this.

I tried talking again today to say sorry- told to get lost again. She's really pissed off that I brought it up. She isn't going to let it go that easily I can tell... That makes me feeling pulling another cheap shot because i'm expected to let it all go.

I can't pander to her every whim all the time- what is the point in dragging it out like this

[This message edited by idiot85 at 8:46 AM, July 1st (Monday)]


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
Joanh
Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, July 1st (Monday)

Sorry. WW here. I get pregnancy hormones etc. So some might be that causeing overreacting by your wife. But

She is the one that screwed up. If you yell and bring up the A then she shouldn't be telling you not to hold it over her. Or that you will keep using it.
You are right to express your anger. It may not have been part of the original argument. But she went low to attack family. And she can't see that obviously.
She needs to realize that it's on your mind. Your angry and hurt and she has to accept it's going to come out.
Otherwise. It's kinda like rugsweeping. Has she been doing anything else to show her remorse.
I know with her being pregnant you probably are scared to voice your thoughts. But they need to be. Or they will continue to come out in unexpected times.
I hope yourWW can open her ears and listen. Good luck


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, July 1st (Monday)

She is punishing you because you brought it up.

Too damn bad. She has rugswept quite a few "bad moments" during her life..and the result hasn't been a good one. She wants to rugsweep her 3 ONS too. Don't allow this. Talking about what she did..and allowing you to express your hurt,disappointment,and your anger is absolutely necessary. Anything less isn't R...and it's extremely unfair to you.


And,while it may be true,that sometimes you don't listen..you did not cause this. You were wrong about what day she was going out,and not happy that you had to change your plans. I suspect that it "blew up" because you have been suppressing your emotions because you don't want to upset her. Stop suppressing. It's unhealthy and causes little problems to become bigger problems. But she walked out..again. She is now treating you badly because you brought up her affairs...that is manipulation.


[This message edited by confused615 at 9:14 AM, July 1st (Monday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7668 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
SoVerySadNow
Member
Member # 36711
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, July 1st (Monday)

Every little thing tears a betrayed up. We are exhausted (WS probably are too) and our memories are spotty sometimes. Mine is anyway. I never had the memory problems that I've had off and on since dd.

I suggest heavy calendar usage. It works for us. Write everything you guys are doing (like going off with friends) on the calendar. All the upcoming plans. Check it every night and every day. It eliminates some miscommunication.


Me:BW
Him:WH
D-day(s),after years of TT and Gaslighting was Labor Day Weekend 2012, continuing for a week after. *Dammit! More TT 3/9/13
Really trending toward D- planning about it is my "happy place" now.

Posts: 1292 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Sunny Florida
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, July 1st (Monday)

Hey bro,

Is there a chance she's using again?

You are totally allowed to vent. She needs to put on her big girl panties and own the fact that she's the cause of a lot of this. Your listening skills are a very small sub set of the issue.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2968 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, July 1st (Monday)

hi here...i agree with confused...she is completely out of line....make no mistake about it. her behavior is completely wayward, and unremorseful. i suspect that the reason you blew up the way you did is that you have been holding it in...for fear that you will "upset her." no way. that is not how this works. not if you want to r in a healthy way. if you are mad, you are mad...if you blow up, you blow up...that is all part of the process and you are not even a year out. for her to risk YOUR emotional safety again by bailing to her sisters becasue you blew up is unacceptable. when things are bad like this..that is when she should stay right there with you, supporting you.

the real work is staying and dealing with the argument...owning what she did...and being understanding about the pain that she caused. all of this..is because of what she did.

this is manipulation and blameshifting in my opinion...and i wouldnt for a second let her get away with it..pregnant or not.

ic/mc is so good for learning how to handle these situations.

my husband also used to leave when i brought up the a and it turned into an arugment. like you, i spent the entire time worrying....and in looking back, he was so cruel for that. and in my case, he was out cheating when he left. i told him that if he decides to "leave" again after a fight about his cheating, then he can come back. and i mean it. time for your 180.

hang in there.


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
R:Last chance

Posts: 973 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, July 1st (Monday)

No she's 100% clean and sober but that doesn't help this it makes it worse- at least before she looked glazed and literally couldn't process what was happening... NO not this time she is acutely aware of everything she knows what she's done and does show remorse.

This is all well and good and if I bring it up showing I'm upset or having mind movies she's ace. She's angry that I brought it up in anger.

Running away from arguments- always. Physically abusive- me? No way. I'm not going to lie when she was toasted out of her head I grabbed her a few times to move her from one place to another and I know it's never acceptable but that's over with- no drugs means no need to move her- ever. Yesterday I was sat down- she was the one shouting in my face - because oh yeah, clean and sober means she's well and truly found her voice. In other circumstances it's great but not so much when a misunderstanding turns into world war 3.

She says why did I have to take it there- I said because she brought up my Mum. Honestly it's like we're children.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, July 1st (Monday)

You need to address this with MC.

Fighting fair is a huge issue with some married couples and communication is key.

Struggling with communication and walking through the aftermath of an A is not a good combination.

Reach out to your IC/MC and get some good tips/tools on how to navigate through these times with a plan in place.You both need to be able to talk through issues without throwing hurt around.

Your wife had no right to pull in your family, you know that, but I imagine she has less than stellar coping skills, especially being fresh into sober living. It's a life change, not just removing from drugs but learning how to live and cope without other crutches as well.

Stop making excuses for her, she is pregnant, she didn't have a lobotomy. Let her be responsible for her poor choices.

You reacted poorly as well, but it happens. Stop, regroup, apologize if needed and move on.

Has she stopped acting like a baby by telling you to get lost? If not I might just get lost idiot. Take the kids and go out to dinner. Start doing a bit more for you.

(((hugs))) mate


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3844 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Ladyogilvy
Member
Member # 31558
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

How long has she been clean and sober? Completely clean and sober? In my experience, R from an A doesn't even start in the first year if R from alcohol.


Me: BW a youthful 49
Him: alcoholic, sober now, WH 56
Married 19 years
Two sons, 16 & 17 years old
DD? He's still keeping secrets and only admits to what I have indisputable
evidence of... the $2000 earrings he bought her for x-mas.

Posts: 1536 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

85,

I wish you the best of luck with this. My guess is that if YOU keep apologizing to her about this argument and she sees that you are clearly upset, this is the way she will treat you EVERYTIME you try and bring it up and this won't allow you to heal.

Maybe you can try and not contact her until she is ready to talk. That may make her feel like she is not in so much control and will allow you to talk on even ground. Right now you feel guilty. I, personally, don't think you should. Perhaps the way in which you talked about the A was wrong, but so was she. Let her know that talking about your family was wrong of her and you would like to communicate in a healthier way in the future.

Just my two cents


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

She stopped taking opiates and 'recreational' drugs, went through horrible withdrawal then got some pills from hosp to help. She does a diary through this 'addiction through pregnancy' and go along to workshops as well as counselling.

I don't think she misses alcohol but she sometimes does miss opiates- more in a physical way than psychologically by the looks of it.

I can't not contact her, we have 2 small kids and live together.

We're OK again now, not great but OK.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

So sorry for what you are going through.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 9:27 PM, July 4th (Thursday)]


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.


Posts: 5695 | Registered: Aug 2007
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

at least before she looked glazed and literally couldn't process what was happening... NO not this time she is acutely aware of everything she knows what she's done and does show remorse.

I had this experience as well. Well, my WH perhaps wasn't glazed (not a heavy user), but 'absent.' Is she in any sort of 12 step program? Her responses seem to me that she may be sober, but she's not ACTING sober. Sobriety means a lot more than just not using. If she's white-knuckling it - well, yay for not using, but it doesn't create a better person. It doesn't arrest the addict behavior, other than the actual usage. Addicts are selfish assholes and giving up the substance in and of itself doesn't correct that. She needs to dig deeper and arrest her selfishness, self-loathing, etc. Then you'll start seeing a kinder, more rational person.

R from an A doesn't even start in the first year if R from alcohol.

I kind of agree with this and kind of don't. Going through the 12 steps and seeing an IC has contributed to a lot of R work. A byproduct of all of that is remorse, accountability, amends, etc. All good things for R. These are elements of R that ALL should have even if no substance abuse is present. The 12 steps (or similiar work if that's not your cup of tea) creates a really wonderful foundation for self-work. Lots of people work the 12 steps who aren't addicts. But I agree in the sense that my WH (alcoholic) is immersed in sobriety right now and the A talk, etc. sometimes takes a back seat. I'm OK with it and actually see no harm because of all the other benefits to our marriage and to him, but it is true the old saying "first things first" and managing his disease and getting to a place of contented sobriety is paramount right now.

Good luck, idiod85. I feel your pain, confusion. Take care.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 667 | Registered: Oct 2012
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, July 5th (Friday)

Rockymtn- I agree that A does sometimes need to take a backseat because ultimately her health and wellbeing and my unborn child's health is more important at this time.

It doesn't mean it get's forgotten and it will be addressed but right now- we're going through an awful lot as a family. She won't be able to address it anyway if she's off her head on drugs.

Like I said she attends a workshop and has some pills to help with withdrawals.

This is just a difficult time but I know it will pass.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
Topic Posts: 18